ESPN Has Lied To You: 10 Reasons MJ Is Not the GOAT

[ambchang]

http://zoomtens.com/espn-has-lied-to-you-ten-reasons-michael-jordan-is-not-the-greatest-nba-player-of-all-time/

Pretty horrible in terms of content, filled with half-truths and "facts" that applies to pretty much every single player in any team sport (wow, he couldn't play make as well for his teammates when his teammates sucked as compared to when his teammates were great? Who knew?).

At least we know where Malik Hairston gets his "arguments" from now, though.

[Infinite_limit]

10. So the bottom cellars were extra bad. This might lower the accomplishment of 72-10 but it didn't alter the Bulls chances of winning/losing in the Playoffs

9. He probably should have gotten the Wiz into the Playoffs one of those seasons
2002: 37-45, Jordan played 60 games, Rip Hamilton, Chris Whitney & Leattner
2003: 37-45, Jordan played 82 games, Stackhouse, Hughes & Laettner

Wiz had 25 wins in 2004 & 19 wins in 2001


8. He was ball hog. Meh

7. Didn't get past the 1st Round without Pippen. Honestly impressive to even make the Playoffs in the mid 80's East

6. MJ defeated overrated teams in the Finals. Disagreed, felt Suns were very strong. 91 Lakers were the only push over. As someone on here illustrated a couple days ago: Jordan was the underdog twice in the Finals. Only favorite twice. That tells me quality opponents. Author says 80's Jazz were better than 90's Jazz? No

5. Not a great playmaker? Huh

4. Constantly lost in the 80s. Yup, he wasn't good enough and the other teams were loaded

3. Other players have GOAT arguments. Agreed

2. 1998 was a very weak season. Isn't this argument #10 again? Who cares how bad the bottom cellars were

1. 1994 Bulls weren't much weaker without MJ. The roster added a-lot of pieces in 1994. Team digressed in 1995 and needed MJ's return to propel the team up the standings [34-31 when MJ returned. Team finished 13-4]

[Koolaid_Man]

:sleep:sleep:sleep:sleep

[Caltex2]

10. So the bottom cellars were extra bad. This might lower the accomplishment of 72-10 but it didn't alter the Bulls chances of winning/losing in the Playoffs

9. He probably should have gotten the Wiz into the Playoffs one of those seasons
2002: 37-45, Jordan played 60 games, Rip Hamilton, Chris Whitney & Leattner
2003: 37-45, Jordan played 82 games, Stackhouse, Hughes & Laettner

Wiz had 25 wins in 2004 & 19 wins in 2001


8. He was ball hog. Meh

7. Didn't get past the 1st Round without Pippen. Honestly impressive to even make the Playoffs in the mid 80's East

6. MJ defeated overrated teams in the Finals. Disagreed, felt Suns were very strong. 91 Lakers were the only push over. As someone on here illustrated a couple days ago: Jordan was the underdog twice in the Finals. Only favorite twice. That tells me quality opponents. Author says 80's Jazz were better than 90's Jazz? No

5. Not a great playmaker? Huh

4. Constantly lost in the 80s. Yup, he wasn't good enough and the other teams were loaded

3. Other players have GOAT arguments. Agreed

2. 1998 was a very weak season. Isn't this argument #10 again? Who cares how bad the bottom cellars were

1. 1994 Bulls weren't much weaker without MJ. The roster added a-lot of pieces in 1994. Team digressed in 1995 and needed MJ's return to propel the team up the standings [34-31 when MJ returned. Team finished 13-4]

Besides 1993 at Phoenix, what years were the Bulls not the favorite in the NBA Final? Even when they didn't have homecourt against the Jazz in MJ's last Finals appearance, most still thought of it as a foregone conclusion they'd win.

Without clicking on the article, the author must have been born in 1990 or later. If you don't think MJ was GOAT, you must not have seen him play very much, especially before the first retirement. I can't speak to a player like Wilt Chaimberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar or Bill Russell well before my time (who also played in a totally different era with less talent and no 3-point line) but even Bird and Magic thought he was the best.

[baseline bum]

7. Didn't get past the 1st Round without Pippen. Honestly impressive to even make the Playoffs in the mid 80's East


Yeah, it was so hard the Bulls got in with a 30-52 record in 85-86.

[Mikeanaro]

I guess Lebron is the best ever :lmao:lmao:whine:downspin::downspin::bobo:wakeup:l mao:lmao:lobt::toast:toast:p::blah:blah:blah:tongu e:eyebrows:oink:rolleyes:p::clap:drunk

[lefty]

the GOAT is a white dude tbh

http://sportsrapport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/larry-bird-cigar-red-auerbach.jpg

[baseline bum]

the GOAT is a white dude tbh

http://sportsrapport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/larry-bird-cigar-red-auerbach.jpg

I love Bird's game, but I'll take Jordan and Magic over him.

[lefty]

I love Bird's game, but I'll take Jordan and Magic over him.

Ill take Bird over that clown MJ tbh

Bird had much more impact than Mike TBH, and his athleticism sucked ass :lol

[AlexJones]

lol Larry's true shooting %

[lefty]

lol Larry's true shooting %

Yeah obsiously they left him wide open all night as it's the case in today'S NBA

[Thread]

I love Bird's game, but I'll take Jordan and Magic over him.

He was big shot. Then? He let Magic snooker him,,,seduce him,,,pull his pants down,,,then when Larry was sufficiently softened up? Mag hustled his ass to the rocks...and left him there.

No more big shot.

[JohnnyMax]

Alot of the anti-Jordan points are debunked on here

http://nobodytouchesjordan.blogspot.com/?view=magazine

[DMC]

This is all preliminary, testing of the waters to usher in a new king, something to write about.

[Thread]

This is all preliminary, testing of the waters to usher in a new king, something to write about.

GS would derail it, set it into jeopardy. Sure, they'd burn Blatt at the stake, but, James would still be sitting there with on,,,,,I mean sittin' there with two, because you couldn't hold your fuckin' water.

[lefty]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ibd23_michael-jordan-untouchable-part-1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmlfiMDUTQ4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53dn_D6FWBk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5oCGz32_Zg

[DMC]

GS would derail it, set it into jeopardy. Sure, they'd burn Blatt at the stake, but, James would still be sitting there with on,,,,,I mean sittin' there with two, because you couldn't hold your fuckin' water.
Doesn't matter. He's lost 3 of 5 and he's still being outfitted for the coop. Had your Kobe not leg ridden bigs thus cementing his legacy as a great 2nd option, James would have a harder row to hoe.

[HemisfairArena]

If MJ didn't "retire",,,,he wins 8 in a row,,,,game over.

[lefty]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ibd23_michael-jordan-untouchable-part-1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmlfiMDUTQ4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53dn_D6FWBk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5oCGz32_Zg

[DMC]

If MJ didn't "retire",,,,he wins 8 in a row,,,,game over.
Too bad they can't put speculation on a banner.

[Thread]

Doesn't matter. He's lost 3 of 5 and he's still being outfitted for the coop.

And they're(Media) going to fall back to whom?

[Thread]

Too bad they can't put speculation on a banner.

Or, your 1st 5th for that matter.

[HemisfairArena]

Too bad they can't put speculation on a banner.

No,,need,,to,,,,MJ,,GOAT.

[Splits]

And they're(Media) going to fall back to whom?

Fundamentally...

http://dailyfantasysportspicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/duncan.jpg

[Thread]

Fundamentally...

http://dailyfantasysportspicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/duncan.jpg

Well, he's got no baggage as far as Media is concerned, that's for damned sure.

[Splits]

Well, he's got no baggage as far as Media is concerned, that's for damned sure.

That's what happens when all you do is win and not rape.

[DMC]

And they're(Media) going to fall back to whom?

James. They didn't abandon him after last season. The "Heat Index" went away, because it was the "Lebron James Tracker" truth be told. Now he's back in Cleveland, that's where the new Mecca will be. Miami is once again a third world country.

[DMC]

Or, your 1st 5th for that matter.

Or your registration date.

[Splits]

Or your registration date.

http://i.minus.com/iBEwT7tEC0X2B.gif

[Thread]

That's what happens when all you do is win and not rape.

Even covers win & losing the same NBA Title and having your wife out you in the middle of the win & losing of same. But, Media wanted absolutely no part in that. Thank Christ, Media don't run this little burg.

[Thread]

Or your registration date.

Crawl, motherfucker, crawl!!!

[Thread]

Crawl, motherfucker, crawl!!!

No, I'll tell you what I'm gonna do:::say it again, motherfucker and forever more Splits is "Shits."

Try me.

[DMC]

Even covers win & losing the same NBA Title and having your wife out you in the middle of the win & losing of same. But, Media wanted absolutely no part in that. Thank Christ, Media don't run this little burg.

And not winning a fucking thing, in your case.

[Splits]

No, I'll tell you what I'm gonna do:::say it again, motherfucker and forever more Splits is "Shits."

Try me.
http://i.imgur.com/TOr8Vx1.png

[Thread]

http://i.imgur.com/TOr8Vx1.png

Just watch your fuckin' mouth.

[Splits]

Just watch your fuckin' mouth.

Meet me at room 35. I'll watch your fuckin' mouth.

[KaiRMD1]

GOATs don't get swept in the finals

[Caltex2]

If MJ didn't "retire",,,,he wins 8 in a row,,,,game over.

MJ would have played a lot of basketball by the time 1994 and '95 came along (both in the playoffs and Olympics). He needed to both recharge his batteries playing a less cardio-aerobic sport and let the Bulls be rebuilt, there was no Horace Grant in 1995. As a matter of fact, the entire roster was different from 1993 to '96 except DK, Pippen and Colonel Sanders.

[Caltex2]

GOATs don't get swept in the finals

The 2007 Cavs may have been the worst team to ever advance to the Finals (maybe the 2002 Nets were worse). Even the 40-42 Rockets of 1981 had multiple Hall of Famers and did some serious heavy lifting in the playoffs (though they got a break in the conference finals).

[lefty]

MJ would have played a lot of basketball by the time 1994 and '95 came along (both in the playoffs and Olympics). He needed to both recharge his batteries playing a less cardio-aerobic sport and let the Bulls be rebuilt, there was no Horace Grant in 1995. As a matter of fact, the entire roster was different from 1993 to '96 except DK, Pippen and Colonel Sanders.
not to mention that Rockets team matched up well with the Bulls

They pretty much pwned them

[Caltex2]

Yeah but so did the Jazz over the years and the Bulls still dispatched them two years in a row.

[lefty]

Yeah but so did the Jazz over the years and the Bulls still dispatched them two years in a row.

The Jazz didnt really match up well against them the way the Rox did

And for some reason, Mad Max played well vs MJ :lol

[dg7md]

GOATs don't get swept in the finals

You are both right and wrong with this assessment. The 2007 Cavaliers were a joke and LeBron carried them to that place, single-handedly winning the series against Detroit. You can't hold 2007 against him because we were also a dominating team that nobody stood a chance against (aside from the Mavs, of course).

However, 2011 is completely on him. Nothing else is, 2014 they just got dismantled by a better team (us), and LeBron is lucky Ray Allen saved him the year prior, otherwise he'd be in some trouble historically.

Jordan is the GOAT, LeBron would have to win 7 Finals to dethrone him, and while it's possible, it's not likely at this point in his career. LeBron will be underneath Magic as far as history is concerned, because his individual stats, while far greater than the majority of those of MJ, Magic, Bird, etc., do not always translate to GOAT status; usually championships will decide the rankings of greatest ever, and Jordan's 6-0 in the Finals and the fact he hit a lot of the big shots will always be attached to him and will be nearly impossible to top, even if LeBron gets to 7. That 6-0 undefeated streak in the Finals is, even if it's not technically, is better than going 6-1 in the Finals in terms of their placement in history.

LeBron was NEVER supposed to BE Jordan. He was always the next Magic Johnson, but the media force-fed everyone this Jordan comparison and thus he got stuck to it and there's no way out now, despite the fact he is more of a distributor than a player who takes over games himself. Kobe is really the only comparison to Jordan one can make, and clearly Jordan is superior, although Kobe has impressive stats of his own.

[Caltex2]

The Jazz didnt really match up well against them the way the Rox did

And for some reason, Mad Max played well vs MJ :lol

The regular season is the regular season. The Rockets would have matched up better than any team in that era but it guarantees nothing. The Rockets would have lost in 6, like everyone else minus the Lakers, is my feeling.

[ambchang]

The regular season is the regular season. The Rockets would have matched up better than any team in that era but it guarantees nothing. The Rockets would have lost in 6, like everyone else minus the Lakers, is my feeling.

Weird arguing with a Rockets fan on this, but the Rockets would beat the Bulls in 94, I am not sure about 95, but I wouldn't bet against it either.

Some of the reasons are:
- The Bulls were running on fumes by the end of 93.
- The Bulls generally struggle against teams with all-star bigs. Rik Smits stretched them to 7 games, Ewing was their biggest adversary in the East for a few years, Shawn Kemp dominated them in 96. Hakeem would absolutely dismantle the Bulls.
- Mad Max is the only person up there in terms of the craziness scale with Ron Artest/MWP and Rodman, and it takes a crazy person to really go after Jordan. The Rockets version of the Maxwell actually played well against Jordan. Sure Jordan can annihilate a prime Drexler, but Mad max is crazy.
- The 91 Bulls were great/decent in 3pt defense, they were horrible in 93, the Rockets will light them up from outside

Pippen is really the only person I see the Rockets having problems over, as the Rockets don't really have anyone to match up with him, and Pippen, for some reason, doesn't really get affected much by dominating defensive bigs.

[Caltex2]

Yeah, I'm generally on the other side of this argument but there's no guarantee. The Rockets would have been ready but so would have been the Bulls. All those All-Star bigs LOST to the Bulls with the exception of Shaq, when the Bulls were between having Horace Grant and Dennis Rodman.

It'd have been fun to see but we'll never know. One other thing I did wish would have happened was that scheduled pay-per-view one-on-one game between Shaq and Hakeem that got cancelled because Hakeem got hurt. Gotta love the NBA in the 90's.

[Sean Cagney]

If MJ didn't "retire",,,,he wins 8 in a row,,,,game over.

Your damn right, people on here hating now and saying this or that are full of shit. I guess heads forgot or some kids posting in here who did not see MJ play during those title runs TBH. He was that good.
Weird arguing with a Rockets fan on this, but the Rockets would beat the Bulls in 94, I am not sure about 95, but I wouldn't bet against it either.

Some of the reasons are:
- The Bulls were running on fumes by the end of 93.
- The Bulls generally struggle against teams with all-star bigs. Rik Smits stretched them to 7 games, Ewing was their biggest adversary in the East for a few years, Shawn Kemp dominated them in 96. Hakeem would absolutely dismantle the Bulls.
- Mad Max is the only person up there in terms of the craziness scale with Ron Artest/MWP and Rodman, and it takes a crazy person to really go after Jordan. The Rockets version of the Maxwell actually played well against Jordan. Sure Jordan can annihilate a prime Drexler, but Mad max is crazy.
- The 91 Bulls were great/decent in 3pt defense, they were horrible in 93, the Rockets will light them up from outside

Pippen is really the only person I see the Rockets having problems over, as the Rockets don't really have anyone to match up with him, and Pippen, for some reason, doesn't really get affected much by dominating defensive bigs.
So the Rockets would not have problems over Jordan? Pippen I agree on but when focused in the finals nobody could stop Jordan, he raised it to another level and then some every finals he went to. He was a problem.


BTW how are some so sure on 94 when the Knicks were up 3-2 in that series and easily could have won it? How are the Rockets a sure fire to beat the Bulls in 94 if the Knicks took it 7games?
The regular season is the regular season. The Rockets would have matched up better than any team in that era but it guarantees nothing. The Rockets would have lost in 6, like everyone else minus the Lakers, is my feeling.

I agree with you 100% on this one.
not to mention that Rockets team matched up well with the Bulls

They pretty much pwned them
Just like the Thunder did the Spurs of last year and Portland did for the Spurs over the last 7 years or so record wise during the season (Best record overall vs. the Spurs for those years if I am correct), we see what happened in the playoffs though when they met. Regular season completely different.

[Caltex2]

The Rox and Knicks played similar styles and were evenly matched. Meanwhile, the Rockets were a bad matchup for the Bulls though I still see the Bulls pulling through in 6.

[ambchang]

Yeah, I'm generally on the other side of this argument but there's no guarantee. The Rockets would have been ready but so would have been the Bulls. All those All-Star bigs LOST to the Bulls with the exception of Shaq, when the Bulls were between having Horace Grant and Dennis Rodman.

It'd have been fun to see but we'll never know. One other thing I did wish would have happened was that scheduled pay-per-view one-on-one game between Shaq and Hakeem that got cancelled because Hakeem got hurt. Gotta love the NBA in the 90's.

Throughout his career, Hakeem pretty much had his way when facing against Rodman, and did pretty well against Grant. And those all-star bigs weren't Hakeem. Hakeem is a few levels above Ewing and another few more than Rik Smits. The thing is, the East was pretty weak back then. The only good competition Jordan had was Knicks and Pacers, then later Heat and Magic (maybe Charlotte for a few years). While, the West had the Rockets, Sonics, Suns, Spurs, Jazz, and Blazers. The Knicks were probably the only team that can hang with any of the West teams listed, and the Magic for a few magical years.


So the Rockets would not have problems over Jordan? Pippen I agree on but when focused in the finals nobody could stop Jordan, he raised it to another level and then some every finals he went to. He was a problem.

Everybody has problems with Jordan, everybody, but Hakeem was the same, and I think the advantage the Rockets have at the the C position outweighs the advantage the Bulls have at the SG position. It sounds absurd to bet against Jordan, I know, but we are talking about Hakeem here. Also, the role players edge goes to the Rockets.

Finally, the biggest factor of all, is that the Bulls really were running on fumes. Sure, Jordan is a robot and space alien all rolled into one, but the other Bulls aren't.


BTW how are some so sure on 94 when the Knicks were up 3-2 in that series and easily could have won it? How are the Rockets a sure fire to beat the Bulls in 94 if the Knicks took it 7games?

Well, they didn't, because the Rockets won. That was an ugly series, far uglier than the Spurs-Pistons series, and ultimately what caused Stern to beg Jordan back. Again, it's all about matchups, and the Knicks and Rockets match up well against each other. The guards on the Knicks and Rockets are similar defensively, and while Jordan did OK against them, he wasn't otherworldly. Meanwhile, Hakeem was otherworldly against some of the best centers in the league those two seasons. He'd go absolutely nuclear on the Bulls frontline.

One thing I forgot though, Phil Jackson would probably whine until the league lets him play zone on Hakeem.


I agree with you 100% on this one.
Just like the Thunder did the Spurs of last year and Portland did for the Spurs over the last 7 years or so record wise during the season (Best record overall vs. the Spurs for those years if I am correct), we see what happened in the playoffs though when they met. Regular season completely different.

It's a good gauge though.

[Thomas82]

Yeah, it was so hard the Bulls got in with a 30-52 record in 85-86.

They got there largely without MJ. That was the year he broke his foot.........I'm just saying.