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View Full Version : Why the Dems want no part of Katrina Investigation



Hook Dem
09-10-2005, 10:33 AM
Found this from a local blog and it makes good points....................................The Democrats have been screaming for Bush's and FEMA's heads since Katrina struck New Orleans and the Gulf Coast. They have demanded a full investigation into this matter. However, some of them seem to be muting these demands in the last few days giving various reasons why they do not want to be part of a bipartisan investigation. Let us see why they might be losing their desire to be involved in one.

1. This disaster has brought out what many of us in the South and other parts of the country have known for decades. New Orleans and the State are considered to be a welfare state. It is a perfect example of what the Democrats in power in that state have built over many decades and failed at. They put as many people on public welfare, bringing in every welfare program they could think of, in exchange for the vote of those people on welfare programs. Louisiana is a perfect example of what that party would like to do "for" or "to" your state, if the populace would let them. The way to get ahead in this country is not to make people subservient to the local, state or federal government, but to provide the means to get them out of their situation and get ahead in life.

2. The levee system failure. It is not President Bush, his government, or the U.S. Corps of Engineers that caused the levee system to fail. It is the city of New Orleans and the State government. Local, State and Federal governments have known for years the weaknesses of the levee system there.
After all, the city has been sinking for years and is below sea level. It was bound to happen, sooner or later. New Orleans has been dodging a bullet for decades. Reports in the last few days by the U.S. Corps of Engineers personnel have stated that the funding was there. It was not being deleted or held up by the Bush Administration, as the Democrats would have you believe. What was happening was that when funding for levee work was provided to the city or state, it was often used for pork barrel projects instead that had nothing to do with the levees. City and State officials refused to put the money to the use it was intended. The Corps cited several instances where funds for levee repair or enhancements were used for pet projects of city or state officials instead...

3. City/State Disaster/Evacuation Plans. News reports in the last few days have shown who is at fault in the lack of proper evacuation of the city and surrounding area. News reports show that the last time Disaster//Evacuation plans were tested, they failed. When this disaster hit, only part of the plan was put into effect by the Mayor. About a thousand city and school busses were left sitting in the water, instead of getting them to high ground. Had the Mayor put the full plan into effect, gotten those buses out of low lying areas, they could have been used to bus thousands and thousands of people to the west of the target area. If FoxNew, MSNBC and other news agencies could get in to report from the heights of I-10, certainly those busses could have gotten out. As people gathered at the Superdome and Convention Center, they could have been loaded up and transported out of the city. The Mayor was told well in advance by their own state Hurricane Tracking Center that his city was directly in the path of Katrina. The Mayor did not take proper Disaster/Evacuation relief action to prevent what happened. We know that now by all the news reports regarding his lack of actions and lack of coordination with the governor and her staff. Yet he would have you believe he did. His words and actions are showing that he had no clue what to do.

4. The Governor failed the citizens of the State badly. News timelines show that she failed to take the necessary actions when advised to do so by the President. She wavered often. She did not check to make sure the New Orleans mayor had fully implemented his disaster/evacuation plan. She assumed he had, as she said in the news. There was insufficient communications between the two of them. She refused the federal aid the President wanted to provide her with BEFORE the storm ever hit. President Bush did something almost unprecedented by declaring a National Disaster in her area before Katrina hit. He was very concerned in involved in getting that area help as quickly as possible. However, under the present laws, he cannot send in Federal assistance unless the Governor of a State requests it. She refused to do so. There are many other failures on her part that have come to light in recent days, by her own words and actions or those of others.

5. Communications. This hurricane tore the state and local communications to shreds. No cell phone or little regular phone line capability. Emergency phone/radio systems were shredded. However, one item that came to light is that the City of New Orleans was offered satellite radio systems some time back but refused them, saying their system was totally up to date, or words to that effect. I think the report went on to say that they took the money though and used it on one of their pet projects not related to disaster recovery. The local/state communications systems should have been "hardened" on high ground to prevent this problem.

6. Why were there insufficient military aid after Katrina passed? According to news reports and timelines, the Governor failed to act quickly enough to insure there would be sufficient Guard/Police in the city and area to prevent looting, direct evacuees and care for them. She waffled... She waited to long. She refused the President's gesture of providing assistance too long... She made other mistakes, all being chronicled in news reports over the last week or so.

7. Why wasn't the Red Cross and Salvation Army there to provide water, food and health items to those stuck at the Superdome and Convention Center? That was the question that was constantly being asked by FoxNews, MSNBC, and others, from inside the city, on I-10 overpasses... The reason why they were not there to help was brought out by FoxNew's reporter, Major Garrett, in an interview with the President of the American Red Cross a couple of nights ago. They were PREVENTED from going in by the Louisiana Directors Office of Homeland Security. NOT the NATIONAL Director, as some Democrats would have you believe, but the State Directors office. Why? Because, according to the quotes, it was not the intent to shelter all the evacuees at these shelters, but to gather them up and move them out as quickly as possible. They did not want the people to think this was going to be their home for the next few weeks or months, so they did not let these two agencies in to care for the people... They intended them to be there for only a short period of time, a day or so. However, the Mayor failed to get the busses and drivers out of the low lying areas to use as transportation out of the city. They had to call on the Federal Government to bail them out, by them bringing in busses to do that. That is a slow process. The wheels of the Federal Government turn slowly, especially when they are being impeded by failures on the part of the local and state governments... They have to ask for Federal assistance before it can be provided. Local/State authorities were very slow in doing so and in some cases, days later were still not asking for the assistance they should have been. Just a day ago, the Mayor and the Governor were still word fighting over whether or not there should be a mandatory evacuation of the entire city of New Orleans. The Mayor said he ordered one. The Governor said he cannot do that without her permission and she had not yet given it then.

8. Was the FEMA Director at fault? Maybe, maybe not. Reports indicate that FEMA had already taken action to move into the area with relief support. However, they could not go into the area during the height of the hurricane. Nor could they move until the Governor of the State asked for Federal assistance. Once again, she wavered... She waited too long. Once aide was requested, it takes a few days for a major operation like FEMA to march. One thing that kept them from moving in faster was the utter disaster they found. Access to towns and cities were blocked by mountains of debris on the roadways. Roads and bridges under water... Could they have acted sooner? Time will tell. Was there a failure of leadership at FEMA. Maybe so. I see today that Mr. Brown has been replaced by the Admiral of the Coast Guard for Katrina recovery efforts.

9. Was the President at fault? Did he cause the hurricane, as left wing Democrats would want you to believe? Did he cause the results by not taking faster action? Did he intentionally delay action because he does not like blacks? Did he fail in his position of leadership?

Democrats have been railing at the President over these statements and many others. At a time when we need to be united as a people, the Democratic leaders have chosen to vilify the leader of our country and his party instead of pitching in and helping. There are reports now that they have conned three evacuees to do a “Cindy Sheehan” at the White House, as they demand to speak to the President about why there was not help for them. Perhaps they are in the wrong city? They should be on the New Orleans Mayors and Louisiana Governor’s front steps... They have taken a very bad political stance in hopes of gaining more votes at the polls during upcoming elections instead of stuffing the rhetoric and helping. I am sure the people of this country will take that into consideration at the polls next time they vote. The people of this country are not stupid, as many politicians think. They will remember the failure of the Mayor and the Governor and their staffs later on...

The President did not cause this disaster. He is not God.... He did not cause it by not ratifying the Kyoto document on global warming. Neither did the Congress ratify it. Many scientists do not believe there is such a thing as global warming. To many it is a UN dodge, like the Oil for Food scam, that the UN is using to fleece countries from billions of more money for their own use. Many climatologists will tell you that we have been in a low cycle of hurricane activity for the last 30-40 years. Now we are on the upswing of a more active cycle. This is why we are seeing more hurricanes than in previous years. Just as there are cycles in Solar Activity, there are warming cycles and cold cycles in our weather. We are seeing warming cycles now, not only in our weather, but also hurricanes and typhoons. The waters of the Atlantic and Gulf are warmer than they used to be. It will be like this for a decade or two, until waters cool down.. So people like Democrat Robert Kennedy, Jr. are blowing smoke when they try to blame Katrina on the President.

The President acted as fast as he could under the Posse Comitatus Law. That law prevents a President from sending federal troops or assistance into any state unless the Governor of that State requests it. In fact, he did something almost never heard of before. He acted a couple of days before Katrina ever hit. He told the Governor of Louisiana that her state was going to be directly impacted by this hurricane and recommended actions to take. She refused to do so. He kept after her to take the proper action. She said she wanted to sleep on it for 24 hours, or words to that effect, according to news reports. She slept too long..

One of the most stupid things I heard said was by a couple of our “elite black leaders” of this country. (Elite in their own minds, perhaps). Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are both being quoted in the news that the President failed to act faster because it was just black people that were trapped in New Orleans, or words to that effect. That is about as dumb as they get. Maybe not. I sat for days and saw many white people in the crowds at the Superdome, the Convention Center, and wading the streets trying to get out. There were many white people around New Orleans that were also effected by this. Where there a lot of black people effected by this? You bet! There is a preponderance of black people in New Orleans and surrounding area. I saw many acts of kindness between black people and white people. I saw white people caring for young and older black people. I saw black people caring for young and older white people. It was people helping people, regardless of skin color. For these two men to say that it was a deliberate attempt to subjugate black people or words to that effect, is just hog wash. I am sure blacks and whites both realize where Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton really come from.... They have an agenda and it is not a good one..

Did the President fail to provide leadership? Certainly not! Listen to Franklin Graham and what he had to say on FoxNews. The President provided more leadership in this disaster than the Mayor of the Governor ever thought of. Recent polls do not show that the people of this country greatly fault him for lack of leadership. Those that do are probably mainly die hard Democrats who will blame him if their dog dies after being run over chasing cars.

Now I ask you.. According to many news report over the last week or so since Katrina hit, the people who are the most at fault here are the Mayor of New Orleans and his personnel, and the Governor of Louisiana and her personnel, NOT the President or the Republican Party, as the Democrats would have you believe. If you were a Democratic leader, who knew that their party and party leadership had failed the people of New Orleans and surrounding areas of the state, would YOU want to be part of a commission that is going to see your fellow Democrats roasted? Could this be the reason Left Wing Democrat Flame Throwers might back off their desires to see a commission at all? Do they want to see their Democrat friends, the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of Louisiana and their staffs pilloried in an investigation that will bring out all the ugliness of what has been going on under Democratic leadership for decades in New Orleans and Louisiana? Maybe not...

It could all come out, the graft, the corruption, the failure of leadership within the Democratic governments of that state.. We already know, according to the news reports, that their leadership failed the people of New Orleans and the areas around it. That caused untold thousands of deaths, hundreds of thousands to lose their homes, their livelihood, their possessions, pets, their personal belongings. It caused them to be evacuated hundreds, maybe thousands of miles from the city they loved. So I would not be surprised if there was a huge backlash at the polls against the Democratic leaders who caused this over the decades by not taking care of their city and the levee system that was supposed to protect them.

So just maybe, the Democrats might not want a commission to investigate what THEY did wrong to cause this disaster in the State of Louisiana after all.. We are glad to be one of those cities that chose to kick in and help out many of those evacuees. Many of them good Democrats, I am sure, that thought their leaders would take good care of them. They know better now.... Those are my comments.

JohnnyMarzetti
09-10-2005, 10:34 AM
http://www.allhatnocattle.net/bush_The_Clueless.jpg

Just another dumbass blogger.

Hook Dem
09-10-2005, 10:37 AM
http://www.allhatnocattle.net/bush_The_Clueless.jpg

Just another dumbass blogger.
You didn't even have time to read it yet. Again, you show your partisan self with your cartoons. Go back and read it before you comment!

JoeChalupa
09-10-2005, 12:02 PM
I read it and it was a good read. I've said it before Hook Dem that the democratic party needs to get back to the party of old.
Nancy Pelosi needs to think before she speaks as does Howard Dean.
No doubt in my mind that the Governor FU'd up during this disaster and there is no sugar coating it. She dropped the ball.

Dos
09-10-2005, 12:21 PM
this was a good article but too long to post, but here's the highlight..

Robert Tracinski calls this behavior of “the wards of the welfare state” a "man made disaster" that was exposed by the storm. He puts it this way,

"What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological consequences of the welfare state. What we consider "normal" behavior in an emergency is behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond to a disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome the difficulties they face. They don't sit around and complain that the government hasn't taken care of them. They don't use the chaos of a disaster as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men."

"The man-made disaster is not an inadequate or incompetent response by federal relief agencies, and it was not directly caused by Hurricane Katrina. This is where just about every newspaper and television channel has gotten the story wrong.”

The man-made disaster [thugs shooting at rescuers and the mass looting of non-essential items of value] we are now witnessing in New Orleans did not happen over the past four days. It happened over the past four decades. Hurricane Katrina merely exposed it to public view."

And most of the media are still ignoring this part of the story behind the story.

ChumpDumper
09-10-2005, 12:25 PM
Ah, another values "argument."

If only these victims had the right values, they'd be columnists who could write columns shitting on the less fortunate as well.

JoeChalupa
09-10-2005, 12:27 PM
Maybe I'm wrong but to me it is using a broad brush IMO.
I don't what the exact figures are but I would hope that the MAJORITY of the citizens are fine, hard working people and a few stupid people don't make everyone else "looters or people on welfare".

FEMA is always there very quick to help the "stupid" people who keep building those million dollar homes off the coasts of America.

Again, Katrina has caused more sociological damage than we will ever know.

Vashner
09-10-2005, 04:00 PM
Why the hell didn't the city put some water into the dome the whole day they where putting people into it?

It has a deliver ramp out in the back....??

BUSH DID IT BUSH BUSH BUSH BUSH BUUUUUUUUSSSHHHHHHHHH

Bush parachuted out of a b2 stealth.. landed at the loading dock and machine gunned holes in all the bottled water they city tried to bring in. Then he used a michael jackson jetpack to fly up to orbit and dock with his 747.. sipping fine wine while rome burned.

Nbadan
09-11-2005, 05:05 AM
As most posting by Hookdem, this one is filled with numerous misconceptions, for instance...


This disaster has brought out what many of us in the South and other parts of the country have known for decades. New Orleans and the State are considered to be a welfare state. It is a perfect example of what the Democrats in power in that state have built over many decades and failed at. They put as many people on public welfare, bringing in every welfare program they could think of, in exchange for the vote of those people on welfare programs. Louisiana is a perfect example of what that party would like to do "for" or "to" your state, if the populace would let them. The way to get ahead in this country is not to make people subservient to the local, state or federal government, but to provide the means to get them out of their situation and get ahead in life.

Maybe someone should have told the author, and Hookdem, that most of the South is one big welfare state since recent statistics show that a majority of so-called Red States in the South are net recipients of federal welfare and the majority of Blue states are net payers of federal welfare. but, but how can that be?

Nbadan
09-11-2005, 05:15 AM
The levee system failure. It is not President Bush, his government, or the U.S. Corps of Engineers that caused the levee system to fail. It is the city of New Orleans and the State government. Local, State and Federal governments have known for years the weaknesses of the levee system there.

After all, the city has been sinking for years and is below sea level. It was bound to happen, sooner or later. New Orleans has been dodging a bullet for decades. Reports in the last few days by the U.S. Corps of Engineers personnel have stated that the funding was there. It was not being deleted or held up by the Bush Administration, as the Democrats would have you believe. What was happening was that when funding for levee work was provided to the city or state, it was often used for pork barrel projects instead that had nothing to do with the levees. City and State officials refused to put the money to the use it was intended. The Corps cited several instances where funds for levee repair or enhancements were used for pet projects of city or state officials instead...

So now the Governor and the Mayor are telling the U.S. Army Corp of Engineers how to spend DoD money? I don't think so. I have read several interviews with Army Corp of Engineers higher-ups and in each instance they insist that money that which should have gone to strengthen the levees in NO, instead went to the war in Iraq. Of course, since this chain-letter doesn't provide any sources it can make any claim it wants with near impunity. So we can well imagine what's next, 'Levee money went to fix levees in Iraq', nah, on second thought, that's probably to close to the truth.

Nbadan
09-11-2005, 05:24 AM
3. City/State Disaster/Evacuation Plans. News reports in the last few days have shown who is at fault in the lack of proper evacuation of the city and surrounding area. News reports show that the last time Disaster//Evacuation plans were tested, they failed. When this disaster hit, only part of the plan was put into effect by the Mayor. About a thousand city and school busses were left sitting in the water, instead of getting them to high ground. Had the Mayor put the full plan into effect, gotten those buses out of low lying areas, they could have been used to bus thousands and thousands of people to the west of the target area. If FoxNew, MSNBC and other news agencies could get in to report from the heights of I-10, certainly those busses could have gotten out. As people gathered at the Superdome and Convention Center, they could have been loaded up and transported out of the city. The Mayor was told well in advance by their own state Hurricane Tracking Center that his city was directly in the path of Katrina. The Mayor did not take proper Disaster/Evacuation relief action to prevent what happened. We know that now by all the news reports regarding his lack of actions and lack of coordination with the governor and her staff. Yet he would have you believe he did. His words and actions are showing that he had no clue what to do

Here we go with the stupid buses argument again. Once again, city buses were used to transport those without vehicles to the Superdome. School buses have neither bathrooms nor air conditioning and are not suited for long-term travel. Even if the Mayor wanted to use the school buses, he had no authority to do so. This type of mass evacuation would have required massive regional planning that is well beyond the legal scope and resources of either the city of NO and the state of Lousiana.

Nbadan
09-11-2005, 05:37 AM
The Governor failed the citizens of the State badly. News timelines show that she failed to take the necessary actions when advised to do so by the President. She wavered often. She did not check to make sure the New Orleans mayor had fully implemented his disaster/evacuation plan. She assumed he had, as she said in the news. There was insufficient communications between the two of them. She refused the federal aid the President wanted to provide her with BEFORE the storm ever hit. President Bush did something almost unprecedented by declaring a National Disaster in her area before Katrina hit. He was very concerned in involved in getting that area help as quickly as possible. However, under the present laws, he cannot send in Federal assistance unless the Governor of a State requests it. She refused to do so. There are many other failures on her part that have come to light in recent days, by her own words and actions or those of others.

Bush declared a State of Emergency in both Mississippi (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050828.html) and Alabama (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050828-3.html) on Sunday August 28th. The day before Katrina hit shore in Louisiana.

Using Executive Orders before the storm, W could have Federalized the Lousiana National Guard and FEMA could have used whatever resources it felt neccessary to handle the disaster. On Saturday Aug 27th, President Bush officially declares that a "state of emergency" exists in Louisiana and orders Federal aid to the affected areas to complement state and local relief efforts. FEMA director Mike Brown finally begins to mobilize FEMA resources, but gives FEMA regional directors two days to get to New Orleans.

Nbadan
09-11-2005, 05:46 AM
5. Communications. This hurricane tore the state and local communications to shreds. No cell phone or little regular phone line capability. Emergency phone/radio systems were shredded. However, one item that came to light is that the City of New Orleans was offered satellite radio systems some time back but refused them, saying their system was totally up to date, or words to that effect. I think the report went on to say that they took the money though and used it on one of their pet projects not related to disaster recovery. The local/state communications systems should have been "hardened" on high ground to prevent this problem.

In a interview with Mayor Nagin posted in this forum it has been established that cell phones provided to local officials who were on the ground were not working. Even the US military was having communication problems in the affected areas. There are many theories as to why satellite phones would have trouble working. Many conspiracy theorists are convinced that there was some type of jamming going on in emergency frequencies in the NO area immediately after Katrina passed. Other reports have surfaced that FEMA personnel were deliberately sabotaging emergency lines - physically cutting the lines in one instance. Sherrifs deputies were stationed to protect emergency phone lines from FEMA.

Nbadan
09-11-2005, 05:54 AM
6. Why were there insufficient military aid after Katrina passed? According to news reports and timelines, the Governor failed to act quickly enough to insure there would be sufficient Guard/Police in the city and area to prevent looting, direct evacuees and care for them. She waffled... She waited to long. She refused the President's gesture of providing assistance too long... She made other mistakes, all being chronicled in news reports over the last week or so.

Well, I think the easy answer to this is that most of the Louisiana National Guard was in Iraq. Governor Blanco tried to borrow National Guard troops from other states, but the delay in getting these additional troops to Louisiana had a lot to do with the States inability of properly prepare for the storm and protect the people in the Superdome. Using Executive orders, W could have activated active-duty troops to help in the prepardness and immediate search and rescue phase of the after-math but failed to do so.

Hook Dem
09-11-2005, 10:46 AM
Bush declared a State of Emergency in both Mississippi (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050828.html) and Alabama (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050828-3.html) on Sunday August 28th. The day before Katrina hit shore in Louisiana.

Using Executive Orders before the storm, W could have Federalized the Lousiana National Guard and FEMA could have used whatever resources it felt neccessary to handle the disaster. On Saturday Aug 27th, President Bush officially declares that a "state of emergency" exists in Louisiana and orders Federal aid to the affected areas to complement state and local relief efforts. FEMA director Mike Brown finally begins to mobilize FEMA resources, but gives FEMA regional directors two days to get to New Orleans.
If Bush had federalized the Louisiana National Guard, you would have been the first to holler "foul" and you know it. Why do states have national Guards? So they can utilize them in times of emergency. Nice try in passing the buck there Dan.

Hook Dem
09-11-2005, 10:53 AM
In a interview with Mayor Nagin posted in this forum it has been established that cell phones provided to local officials who were on the ground were not working. Even the US military was having communication problems in the affected areas. There are many theories as to why satellite phones would have trouble working. Many conspiracy theorists are convinced that there was some type of jamming going on in emergency frequencies in the NO area immediately after Katrina passed. Other reports have surfaced that FEMA personnel were deliberately sabotaging emergency lines - physically cutting the lines in one instance. Sherrifs deputies were stationed to protect emergency phone lines from FEMA.
I see now why you wear the tin foil hat Dan. "Jamming going on in emergency frequencies""???? Thats just about as far a reach as I've ever heard." Fema personnel were deliberately sabotaging emergency lines"??? You're pathetic Dan! I see you and you're kind doing a lot of back pedaling now and trying to cover you're asses. As usual, you resort to personal attacks on me and anyone else trying to project the truth. I'm just sorry you weren't in NO when all of this happened.

Clandestino
09-11-2005, 10:59 AM
JAMMING EMERGENCY FREQUENCIES! :lmao :lol

Hook Dem
09-11-2005, 11:00 AM
Here we go with the stupid buses argument again. Once again, city buses were used to transport those without vehicles to the Superdome. School buses have neither bathrooms nor air conditioning and are not suited for long-term travel. Even if the Mayor wanted to use the school buses, he had no authority to do so. This type of mass evacuation would have required massive regional planning that is well beyond the legal scope and resources of either the city of NO and the state of Lousiana.
So, you have to have air conditioned busses to transport people to safety? Not suited for long distance travel? Bullshit!!!!! The mayor didn't have authority to use the buses? You wanna stick to that statement????? The fact is that the city had an emergency plan and didn't follow it!!!!!! It's pitiful how you and your kind can dance around the truth. That teenager who stole the first bus and arrived at the Astrodome with all those people had more imagination than you, the mayor, and the Governor. Thats a fact!