E-N: Spurs could offer Duncan a contract starting in the $6-7M range

[Uriel]

There are several NBA player personnel executives who believe the Spurs will offer Duncan a two-year contract that begins between $6 million and $7 million, with a partial guarantee and a player option in the second season.

If Duncan doesn’t exercise the option, he gets, say, 50 percent of that season’s salary. In effect, his salary for next season would remain over $10 million, the partially guaranteed portion of the second season’s salary remaining on the Spurs team salary after the cap explodes with the NBA’s new TV money kicking in for 2016-17.

“You can call it a ‘wink-wink’ deal if you want to,” said an Eastern Conference team executive.” It’s what they did with (Antonio) McDyess, so why not for Duncan.”

Duncan’s cap hold is slightly more than $15.5 million so such a two-year deal would drop their team salary by more than $8 million.
http://www.expressnews.com/sports/columnists/mike_monroe/article/Spurs-offseason-will-require-creativity-6338224.php?t=6e785e5df8e4660723&cmpid=twitter-premium

[DPG21920]

If it's 6M that is incredibly cheap & gives the Spurs a ton of flexibility.

[Chinook]

There's also the very good chance that Tim just straight plays two more years. I see no reason why he can't. If I were the Spurs, I'd just guarantee all of it, seeing as that would be the best way to encourage him to stay on both years. That being said, it's almost pointless for Duncan to take so little. Duncan at $6 Million minus Splitter's $8 Million still leaves the Spurs with less than max cap space. Maybe they do plan on letting Green go and just rolling with Tony, Kawhi, Tim, Boris and LMA. But that seems like a terrible use of assets. May as well stay over the cap, especially if Manu returns. If they're over the cap, then there's no need to have Tim take less -- or to defer money to 2016.

[InRareForm]

Wink wink

[baseline bum]

There's also the very good chance that Tim just straight plays two more years. I see no reason why he can't. If I were the Spurs, I'd just guarantee all of it, seeing as that would be the best way to encourage him to stay on both years. That being said, it's almost pointless for Duncan to take so little. Duncan at $6 Million minus Splitter's $8 Million still leaves the Spurs with less than max cap space. Maybe they do plan on letting Green go and just rolling with Tony, Kawhi, Tim, Boris and LMA. But that seems like a terrible use of assets. May as well stay over the cap, especially if Manu returns. If they're over the cap, then there's no need to have Tim take less -- or to defer money to 2016.

The NBA has projected the cap this summer to be at $67.1 million now, so with Duncan at $6 million, Green's cap hold at roughly $6 million (150% of his 2014-15 salary) and Lenoard's cap hold at roughly $6.1 million (200% of his 2014-15 salary) the Spurs would be looking at about $21.5 million in capspace counting cap holds for empty roster spots under 12 if they salary dump Splitter for nothing, even keeping their first round pick and drafting a guy to play next year.

Source on the jump in the cap: http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12711616/teams-told-nba-salary-cap-hit-100m-2017-18-season

[DPG21920]

There's also the very good chance that Tim just straight plays two more years. I see no reason why he can't. If I were the Spurs, I'd just guarantee all of it, seeing as that would be the best way to encourage him to stay on both years. That being said, it's almost pointless for Duncan to take so little. Duncan at $6 Million minus Splitter's $8 Million still leaves the Spurs with less than max cap space. Maybe they do plan on letting Green go and just rolling with Tony, Kawhi, Tim, Boris and LMA. But that seems like a terrible use of assets. May as well stay over the cap, especially if Manu returns. If they're over the cap, then there's no need to have Tim take less -- or to defer money to 2016.

Tim at 6M + moving Tiago & Mills gives the Spurs a lot of options. Like you said, it would be stupid for SA to give Tim less $ if it doesn't do anything functionally. They likely know what they are doing & what $ they need. One scenario that many don't consider is that Tim may have a number & Spurs can't do anything about it (doubtful).

Also, this article doesn't seem to be in the know. It's just generic assumptions based on convos outside the org.

[DPG21920]

The NBA has projected the cap this summer to be at $67.1 million now, so with Duncan at $6 million, Green's cap hold at roughly $6 million (150% of his 2014-15 salary) and Lenoard's cap hold at roughly $6.1 million (200% of his 2014-15 salary) the Spurs would be looking at about $21.5 million in capspace counting cap holds for empty roster spots under 12 if they salary dump Splitter for nothing, even keeping their first round pick and drafting a guy to play next year.

Source on the jump in the cap: http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12711616/teams-told-nba-salary-cap-hit-100m-2017-18-season

Your cap holds for both Danny & KL are 1M lower than they are.

[BillMc]

Thanks for posting. I guess, I'd be happy with that, but such a deal would imply to me that Timmy is almost certain to retire between the first and second year of the contract. If he really thought he'd play the second year, that wouldn't work as the guaranteed 50% is part of his second year salary. Thus he is now playing two years at about 7 mill a year. It is only a "wink wink" deal, if you think he doesn't come back for the second year and he makes 10 to 11 for 1 year's play paid over 2 seasons.

For an All-NBA and All-Defensive big who AT WORST is still the second best player on a contending team, that's quite a low contract.

I guess, I want Tim to earn some $$$ after the divorce and dishonest financial adviser sucked away a big percentage of his reserves.

[baseline bum]

Your cap holds for both Danny & KL are 1M lower than they are.

Crap, good catch. After reading Larry Coon's page I see Leonard counts 250% of his previous year salary, since he has four years in and his 2014-15 salary was less than the league average. Green counts 190% of his previous year salary, since his 2014-15 salary was less than the league average. So the cap situation would look like:

1. Tony Parker: $13.44 million
2. Danny Green cap hold: $7.65 million
3. Kawhi Leonard cap hold: $7.63 million
4. Boris Diaw: $7.50 million
5. Tim Duncan: $6.00 million
6. Patty Mills: $3.20 million
7. Kyle Anderson: $1.14 million
8. Draft pick #26: $0.99 million
Cap hold for roster spots 9-12: $2.10 million

TOTAL CAP HIT: $49.65 million
CAP SPACE: $17.45 million

Aldridge's max: $20.13 million

So Aldridge would have to take about an $11.5 million paycut over the life of his 4 year contract. That ain't happening most likely. James, Wade, and Bosh did it to make space for Mike Miller in 2011, but that was for a guaranteed title team.

[baseline bum]

So I guess the Spurs cap situation looks like

1. Tony Parker: $13.44 million
2. Tiago Splitter: $8.5 million
3. Danny Green cap hold: $7.65 million
4. Kawhi Leonard cap hold: $7.63 million
5. Boris Diaw: $7.50 million
6. Tim Duncan: $6.00 million
7. Patty Mills: $3.20 million
8. Kyle Anderson: $1.14 million
9. Draft pick #26: $0.99 million
Cap hold for roster spots 10-12: $1.57 million

TOTAL CAP HIT: $57.62 million
CAP SPACE: $9.48 million

So they should look to sign a backup two or three and then one of Bellinelli, Jospeh, or Baynes, and get it done quick so they don't lose Green. Damn that Parker extension really fucks the Spurs ability to rebuild this summer.

[eDizzle20]

This is the great thing about the relationship between Tim and the Spurs. There is incredible transparency between the two parties. Both sides know Tim will get whatever he wants, but he's willing to take less money than what he's worth, and is willing to structure his contact to benefit the team in order to sign other free agents.

[lcroock]

Nobody is taking Tiago for nothing come on now.

[BillMc]

Crap, good catch. After reading Larry Coon's page I see Leonard counts 250% of his previous year salary, since he has four years in and his 2014-15 salary was less than the league average. Green counts 190% of his previous year salary, since his 2014-15 salary was less than the league average. So the cap situation would look like:

1. Tony Parker: $13.44 million
2. Danny Green cap hold: $7.65 million
3. Kawhi Leonard cap hold: $7.63 million
4. Boris Diaw: $7.50 million
5. Tim Duncan: $6.00 million
6. Patty Mills: $3.20 million
7. Kyle Anderson: $1.14 million
8. Draft pick #26: $0.99 million
Cap hold for roster spots 9-12: $2.10 million

TOTAL CAP HIT: $49.65 million
CAP SPACE: $17.45 million

Aldridge's max: $20.13 million

So Aldridge would have to take about an $11.5 million paycut over the life of his 4 year contract. That ain't happening most likely. James, Wade, and Bosh did it to make space for Mike Miller in 2011, but that was for a guaranteed title team.

Interesting read. Thank you. Am I missing something in these numbers or are you assuming Manu retires?

[Ditty]

Nobody is taking Tiago for nothing come on now.

Spurs could probably get a protected first rounder from a contender for Tiago but no way the Spurs help any potential threats.

The Spurs could also intrigue a lot of teams at the end of the lottery if we offer our first round pick and Tiago also to move up.

I'm not giving up Splitter unless we land a big man in the draft and we have a plan to land a defensive big like Asik in free agency.

[baseline bum]

Interesting read. Thank you. Am I missing something in these numbers or are you assuming Manu retires?

Yeah, I'm assuming Manu is retiring. It really sounded that way in the interview I saw when they were cleaning out their lockers for the season. I'd really love to have him back though.

[apalisoc_9]

thats freaking cheap for a guy that still plays like a top 25 player in the league. timmy is really 15 million dollar guy.

[BillMc]

Yeah, I'm assuming Manu is retiring. It really sounded that way in the interview I saw when they were cleaning out their lockers for the season. I'd really love to have him back though.

I think you're right sadly. What was his last public comment? Something like "more and more I feel like a retired player."

[timtonymanu]

If true, that's a generous paycut for a player who's still top 2 on the team.

[TheGoldStandard]

So I guess the Spurs cap situation looks like

1. Tony Parker: $13.44 million
2. Tiago Splitter: $8.5 million
3. Danny Green cap hold: $7.65 million
4. Kawhi Leonard cap hold: $7.63 million
5. Boris Diaw: $7.50 million
6. Tim Duncan: $6.00 million
7. Patty Mills: $3.20 million
8. Kyle Anderson: $1.14 million
9. Draft pick #26: $0.99 million
Cap hold for roster spots 10-12: $1.57 million

TOTAL CAP HIT: $57.62 million
CAP SPACE: $9.48 million

So they should look to sign a backup two or three and then one of Bellinelli, Jospeh, or Baynes, and get it done quick so they don't lose Green. Damn that Parker extension really fucks the Spurs ability to rebuild this summer.

Corey Brewer or Matt Barnes as the backup wing and Joseph Returns. So much for making a splash this summer.

[apalisoc_9]

If true, that's a generous paycut for a player who's still top 2 on the team.

very generous..dude is worth 15+ up, play value wise.

[DPG21920]

So I guess the Spurs cap situation looks like

1. Tony Parker: $13.44 million
2. Tiago Splitter: $8.5 million
3. Danny Green cap hold: $7.65 million
4. Kawhi Leonard cap hold: $7.63 million
5. Boris Diaw: $7.50 million
6. Tim Duncan: $6.00 million
7. Patty Mills: $3.20 million
8. Kyle Anderson: $1.14 million
9. Draft pick #26: $0.99 million
Cap hold for roster spots 10-12: $1.57 million

TOTAL CAP HIT: $57.62 million
CAP SPACE: $9.48 million

So they should look to sign a backup two or three and then one of Bellinelli, Jospeh, or Baynes, and get it done quick so they don't lose Green. Damn that Parker extension really fucks the Spurs ability to rebuild this summer.

Just takes trading Mills & Tiago if you want the cap space out right for LA. Not hard at all. Also, S&T very workable with just Tiago for LMA. Tiago+9M cap space allows you to absorb the 20M for LA in a trade scenario.

[Richie]

Nobody is taking Tiago for nothing come on now.

Tiago (+ #26?) for #15 to Hawks works for both teams. They desperately need size and he fits perfectly in the cap space they have so they can bring back both Millsap and Carroll. Move Horford back to PF and Millsap as 6th man off the bench and they fix a whole host of their weaknesses.

[raybies]

Interesting read. Thank you. Am I missing something in these numbers or are you assuming Manu retires?

My thoughts. I think Manu plays another year if Duncan does. If Aldridge decides to sign, I guess the Spurs would have to decide between Manu and Green, that's if Manu decides to play. So going into the draft they will probably need to know where LA stands(their chances) and what Manu and Tim's plans are. If they don't, they are going to have to be very open with what they do. At this point, my speculation is that he will be very non-committal, so the Spurs will only trade Splitter if they can move up in the draft and get a quality prospect that falls or most likely, wait till the moratorium has passed to free up cap room.

Scenarios
1.Manu retires- we draft a combo guard, Resign Green
2.Aldridge/Gasol signs, Manu plays- Green walks, Trade Splitter and Mills, Duncan and Manu take discounts, we draft/trade/sign a starting two guard and a backup big
3.LA/Gasol signs, Manu Retires- Sign Green, Trade Splitter and Mills, Duncan and Manu take discounts, We draft/trade for a combo guard

.... just some thoughts, feel free to add.

[Ditty]

Just takes trading Mills & Tiago if you want the cap space out right for LA. Not hard at all. Also, S&T very workable with just Tiago for LMA. Tiago+9M cap space allows you to absorb the 20M for LA in a trade scenario.

What's the scenario that the Spurs could keep Green at $10-12 million and sign Aldridge? What if Manu returns for around $3 million? Would it really matter if the Spurs drafted someone in the first round or trade their pick away? Would their be any cap space if we traded Splitter on draft day or sign and trade and landed Aldridge and acquired Asik in free agency?

Sorry for all the questions I'm not as great with numbers like you all. :lol

[raybies]

Spurs could probably get a protected first rounder from a contender for Tiago but no way the Spurs help any potential threats.

The Spurs could also intrigue a lot of teams at the end of the lottery if we offer our first round pick and Tiago also to move up.

I'm not giving up Splitter unless we land a big man in the draft and we have a plan to land a defensive big like Asik in free agency.

How about Tyson CHandler?

[Ditty]

How about Tyson CHandler?

I could live with that, but I've heard he is looking for a contract above the MLE range. I think Asik could be a lot cheaper, better fit and is younger.

[rmt]

Duncan and Parker should trade salaries on that list - then it'd be reasonable. Maybe if we fans see it as Duncan giving up his salary for Parker's, we wouldn't be so dissatisfied.

[TheGoldStandard]

What's the scenario that the Spurs could keep Green at $10-12 million and sign Aldridge? What if Manu returns for around $3 million? Would it really matter if the Spurs drafted someone in the first round or trade their pick away? Would their be any cap space if we traded Splitter on draft day or sign and trade and landed Aldridge and acquired Asik in free agency?

Sorry for all the questions I'm not as great with numbers like you all. :lol

Have to get rid of Tiago in that scenario, sign aldridge and then offer the contracts to Green/Manu if I understand how it works. Spurs would only trade there draft pick if they saw value in whatever it is they were trading down for.

[raybies]

Tyson and Kawhi would be pretty beastly on D, not to mention in this scenario we have Duncan back and Green. Imagine the rating we would be on D with a starting five of Tony, Danny, Kawhi, Tim, and Tyson. In this scenario the Spurs trade Splitter on draft night for the 15th, 16th, or 17th picks, for a guy like Kaminsky or Turner if they fall. Or for the cavs 24th pick and Haywood and just clear the Space all together. I doubt we work with the Cavs but an option never the less. I'm not sure if Milwaukee has cap but I know Atlanta and Boston do. Boston wants a shot at the big names so i doubt they take Splitter without giving back salary.

[Chinook]

So I guess the Spurs cap situation looks like

1. Tony Parker: $13.44 million
2. Tiago Splitter: $8.5 million
3. Danny Green cap hold: $7.65 million
4. Kawhi Leonard cap hold: $7.63 million
5. Boris Diaw: $7.50 million
6. Tim Duncan: $6.00 million
7. Patty Mills: $3.20 million
8. Kyle Anderson: $1.14 million
9. Draft pick #26: $0.99 million
Cap hold for roster spots 10-12: $1.57 million

TOTAL CAP HIT: $57.62 million
CAP SPACE: $9.48 million

So they should look to sign a backup two or three and then one of Bellinelli, Jospeh, or Baynes, and get it done quick so they don't lose Green. Damn that Parker extension really fucks the Spurs ability to rebuild this summer.

LA's max is only about $18 Million. The "cap" for max deals is about 93 percent the size of the actual cap.

[baseline bum]

Just takes trading Mills & Tiago if you want the cap space out right for LA. Not hard at all. Also, S&T very workable with just Tiago for LMA. Tiago+9M cap space allows you to absorb the 20M for LA in a trade scenario.

I wouldn't do that unless the Spurs are 100% sold on Kyle Anderson being able to play point. A quickly declining Parker as the only point guard on the team is a frightening thought.

[TheGoldStandard]

I wouldn't do that unless the Spurs are 100% sold on Kyle Anderson being able to play point. A quickly declining Parker as the only point guard on the team is a frightening thought.

They could be thinking about picking up Delon wright in the draft. That would at least spell them in a spot.

[baseline bum]

LA's max is only about $18 Million. The "cap" for max deals is about 93 percent the size of the actual cap.

Really? Then they can get him by salary dumping Splitter and possibly the first rounder if Duncan signs that deal.

[Chinook]

Just takes trading Mills & Tiago if you want the cap space out right for LA. Not hard at all. Also, S&T very workable with just Tiago for LMA. Tiago+9M cap space allows you to absorb the 20M for LA in a trade scenario.

Actually, trading Mills and Splitter frees up about $10 Million. Then you factor in whatever the Spurs trade those guys for, and you get right back under the $19 Million threshold. Also assumes Cory takes the room exception, because otherwise, the Spurs end up with no cap space to sign a back-up PG, which they definitely need without Manu and with a gimpy Parker. Not to mention LJC has the unilateral right to come over next season and take up about another half-million in cap room.

As awesome as it sounds that Tim would give up so much money, it still isn't good enough.

[Richie]

Crap, good catch. After reading Larry Coon's page I see Leonard counts 250% of his previous year salary, since he has four years in and his 2014-15 salary was less than the league average. Green counts 190% of his previous year salary, since his 2014-15 salary was less than the league average. So the cap situation would look like:

1. Tony Parker: $13.44 million
2. Danny Green cap hold: $7.65 million
3. Kawhi Leonard cap hold: $7.63 million
4. Boris Diaw: $7.50 million
5. Tim Duncan: $6.00 million
6. Patty Mills: $3.20 million
7. Kyle Anderson: $1.14 million
8. Draft pick #26: $0.99 million
Cap hold for roster spots 9-12: $2.10 million

TOTAL CAP HIT: $49.65 million
CAP SPACE: $17.45 million

Aldridge's max: $20.13 million

So Aldridge would have to take about an $11.5 million paycut over the life of his 4 year contract. That ain't happening most likely. James, Wade, and Bosh did it to make space for Mike Miller in 2011, but that was for a guaranteed title team.

Aldridges max isn't over $20m. The max salaries are calculated using a smaller BRI percentage than what is used to calculate the cap, therefore his max is actually less than 30% of the cap. It's a complicated calculation but his predicted max is to be around $18.9m.

Boris' salary is also $7m not $7.5m, which gives us around $17.9m in cap space. However if he moves teams in fee agency he'll lose his Bird rights, meaning he can only get a max 4.5% raise per year.

This means from Portland he can get $109.7m/4yr ($84.5m/4yr), and from us he can get $80m/4yr through a sign and trade or $76.5m as a free agent. I think the totals are all moot though, as he will undoubtably sign a short term contract (2+1) whoever he signs with, which means whatever he gives up will be almost irrelevant. In that case, he's giving up at most $5m by moving teams and if he opts out after 2nd year, just $2m. Anything he loses he will more than make back when the cap jumps.

[Chinook]

Really? Then they can get him by salary dumping Splitter and possibly the first rounder if Duncan signs that deal.

Nah, it's not quite there, because that would cost another million in roster charges. Would definitely have to dump at least Mills along with Splitter. At that point, you may as well try for the S&T, since it would allow the Spurs to keep Cory and Baynes and use the MLE. Then again, if they stay over the cap, then Tim can take whatever deal he wants.

[baseline bum]

Aldridges max isn't over $20m. The max salaries are calculated using a smaller BRI percentage than what is used to calculate the cap, therefore his max is actually less than 30% of the cap. It's a complicated calculation but his predicted max is to be around $18.9m.

Boris' salary is also $7m not $7.5m, which gives us around $17.9m in cap space. However if he moves teams in fee agency he'll lose his Bird rights, meaning he can only get a max 4.5% raise per year.

This means from Portland he can get $109.7m/4yr ($84.5m/4yr), and from us he can get $80m/4yr through a sign and trade or $76.5m as a free agent. I think the totals are all moot though, as he will undoubtably sign a short term contract (2+1) whoever he signs with, which means whatever he gives up will be almost irrelevant. In that case, he's giving up at most $5m by moving teams and if he opts out after 2nd year, just $2m. Anything he loses he will more than make back when the cap jumps.

I thought this CBA did away with being able to use a sign and trade to get any more money than possible via outright signing, e.g., no fifth year and only 4.5% raises. I think Aldridge would be crazy to sign the 1+1 deal LeBron is doing, since LMA is on the wrong side of 30 and isn't the kind of MVP level player guaranteed to max out.

I completely forgot about the loophole calculating max salaries based on a 42.14% average BRI cap vs the 44.74% of average BRI that the cap is calculated at.

[DPG21920]

What's the scenario that the Spurs could keep Green at $10-12 million and sign Aldridge? What if Manu returns for around $3 million? Would it really matter if the Spurs drafted someone in the first round or trade their pick away? Would their be any cap space if we traded Splitter on draft day or sign and trade and landed Aldridge and acquired Asik in free agency?

Sorry for all the questions I'm not as great with numbers like you all. :lol

No worries - we are all here to learn & talk Spurs. The first thing is really understanding that there are two types of FAs for SA: ones that impact cap space (Duncan & Manu) and ones that don't (Kawhi & Danny). The reason for that is their cap holds & nothing else. Tim & Manus cap holds are for more money than they are likely to be re-signed for. So that means they have to be signed 1st. KL & DG have cap holds that are less than they will be signed for most likely so luckily they don't impact signing FAs with cap space.

With that in mind, to answer your question about landing LA & signing Danny to 10M+, every scenario keeps that in play. The only things that will/can stop that is if DG just doesn't want to be back or Spurs aren't willing to have a payroll that high to keep them all. There's also an outside scenario that in the event Spurs need cap space & can't trade Tiago or Boris, letting Danny walk is the fastest way to get 7M in cap space. Good news is that if the Spurs & DG want, signing DG to whatever after signing LA is easy.

The Manu question is much harder. Bc he's scheduled to make less & needs to be signed first, he will take away from cap space immediately since he needs to be signed first. While his new salary in your scenario has Manu making only 3M, that just makes it harder to have the cap space required to sign LA.

Trading the 1st rounder would help but not by enough to matter. The difference would be the cost of the 26th pick (1.4M~) vs a roster charge (550K~).

If Spurs trade away Tisgo on draft day & Tim takes 6M & Manu takes 3M that would leave about 14M in cap space. Not nearly enough to sign LA & Asik.

The S&T scenario is different and prob most likely. It would be a combo of using existing cap space & trading Tiago. If Manu & Tim come back like in the previous example & Spurs were to S&T Tiago, they would still have the same functional cap
Space (14M). Difference is since it's a trade vs out right signing SA can take more than the sum of their cap space back in a S&T (so effectively more than 14M). They may need to trade someone like Mills too in the scenario to make numbers work, but that's the general premise.

Either way though, Spurs can resign KL & DG to whatever they want though after all those transactions.

[Russ]

So Aldridge would have to take about an $11.5 million paycut over the life of his 4 year contract. That ain't happening most likely. James, Wade, and Bosh did it to make space for Mike Miller in 2011, but that was for a guaranteed title team.

I just don't see Aldridge signing a four year deal with anyone. Wouldn't he just sign with whomever for only long enough to get to the new salary cap?

That's the only reason the Spurs might have a slight chance -- LA stays long enough to pursue a title then signs a max long term deal with Dallas or some other easy chair outfit.

[baseline bum]

Nah, it's not quite there, because that would cost another million in roster charges. Would definitely have to dump at least Mills along with Splitter. At that point, you may as well try for the S&T, since it would allow the Spurs to keep Cory and Baynes and use the MLE. Then again, if they stay over the cap, then Tim can take whatever deal he wants.

I could see Aldridge taking the $1 million hit off his base salary, much less than the $2.68 million hit it would have been without the max salary loophole. I think there is no way the Spurs would use the MLE this season if they were able to pull of the sign and trade and bring Green, Leonard, and Joseph back, it would likely push them into paying the luxury tax with Leonard on a max deal and Green with a big pay bump.

[Richie]

I thought this CBA did away with being able to use a sign and trade to get any more money than possible via outright signing, e.g., no fifth year and only 4.5% raises. I think Aldridge would be crazy to sign the 1+1 deal LeBron is doing, since LMA is on the wrong side of 30 and isn't the kind of MVP level player guaranteed to max out.

I completely forgot about the loophole calculating max salaries based on a 42.14% average BRI cap vs the 44.74% of average BRI that the cap is calculated at.

You could be right about the cap rises, if that has happened I'm not aware of it but I'm hardly an expert.

I think a 1+1 is dangerous for Aldridge, but a 2+1 is a nice middleground between guaranteed money and possibility for another big contract. Even if a 32 year old Aldridge isn't a max guy in a couple of years, under a $107m cap he could easily still get a $120m/4yr deal

[wildbill2u]

Anderson is gonna have trouble making the team at SF or SG he is so slow. I can't imagine him defending any PGs in the West with success. They'll just ISO on him and there will be a layup line.

There is a point of diminishing returns on BB IQ and the ability to pass if you can't defend and can't shoot over 40% on 3s.

[Chinook]

I thought this CBA did away with being able to use a sign and trade to get any more money than possible via outright signing, e.g., no fifth year and only 4.5% raises. I think Aldridge would be crazy to sign the 1+1 deal LeBron is doing, since LMA is on the wrong side of 30 and isn't the kind of MVP level player guaranteed to max out.

I completely forgot about the loophole calculating max salaries based on a 42.14% average BRI cap vs the 44.74% of average BRI that the cap is calculated at.

He meant that and S&T would probably allow the Spurs to give Aldridge the full max, whereas in your scenario, they'd be about a million short. I imagine that LMA would be willing to let that slide if it meant keeping Mills. But I think the Spurs would rather do the S&T if they could, as it would allow them to keep Joseph and Baynes and use the MLE.

Problem is, an S&T would NOT actually allow the Spurs to get LMA more money, because Mills and Splitter can only bring back $16.7 Million. They'd need to include Anderson to get closer (provided they didn't sign Williams to that second year). Though I would say that if Aldridge isn't willing to take the $16.7 on a 2+1 deal, then I probably wouldn't try as hard to get him.

EDIT: Guess I was wrong. About what Richie meant.

[Russ]

Anderson is gonna have trouble making the team at SF or SG he is so slow. I can't imagine him defending any PGs in the West with success. They'll just ISO on him and there will be a layup line.

There is a point of diminishing returns on BB IQ and the ability to pass if you can't defend and can't shoot over 40% on 3s.

I'm not sure we can project what KA will do yet. The "measurables" sometimes don't tell the story.

[Mugen]

Get ya money, Jim.

[Chinook]

I could see Aldridge taking the $1 million hit off his base salary, much less than the $2.68 million hit it would have been without the max salary loophole. I think there is no way the Spurs would use the MLE this season if they were able to pull of the sign and trade and bring Green, Leonard, and Joseph back, it would likely push them into paying the luxury tax with Leonard on a max deal and Green with a big pay bump.

They'd be near apron territory. But I think it's a move they'd have to make. This would be an all-in off-season for them. They'd still have holes at SG or PF/C. If they can snag a guy like O'Quinn for the full MLE, I can't see then turning that down.

[BillMc]

He meant that and S&T would probably allow the Spurs to give Aldridge the full max, whereas in your scenario, they'd be about a million short. I imagine that LMA would be willing to let that slide if it meant keeping Mills. But I think the Spurs would rather do the S&T if they could, as it would allow them to keep Joseph and Baynes and use the MLE.

Problem is, an S&T would NOT actually allow the Spurs to get LMA more money, because Mills and Splitter can only bring back $16.7 Million. They'd need to include Anderson to get closer (provided they didn't sign Williams to that second year). Though I would say that if Aldridge isn't willing to take the $16.7 on a 2+1 deal, then I probably wouldn't try as hard to get him.

EDIT: Guess I was wrong. About what Richie meant.


You could be right about the cap rises, if that has happened I'm not aware of it but I'm hardly an expert.

I think a 1+1 is dangerous for Aldridge, but a 2+1 is a nice middleground between guaranteed money and possibility for another big contract. Even if a 32 year old Aldridge isn't a max guy in a couple of years, under a $107m cap he could easily still get a $120m/4yr deal


I could see Aldridge taking the $1 million hit off his base salary, much less than the $2.68 million hit it would have been without the max salary loophole. I think there is no way the Spurs would use the MLE this season if they were able to pull of the sign and trade and bring Green, Leonard, and Joseph back, it would likely push them into paying the luxury tax with Leonard on a max deal and Green with a big pay bump.


No worries - we are all here to learn & talk Spurs. The first thing is really understanding that there are two types of FAs for SA: ones that impact cap space (Duncan & Manu) and ones that don't (Kawhi & Danny). The reason for that is their cap holds & nothing else. Tim & Manus cap holds are for more money than they are likely to be re-signed for. So that means they have to be signed 1st. KL & DG have cap holds that are less than they will be signed for most likely so luckily they don't impact signing FAs with cap space.

With that in mind, to answer your question about landing LA & signing Danny to 10M+, every scenario keeps that in play. The only things that will/can stop that is if DG just doesn't want to be back or Spurs aren't willing to have a payroll that high to keep them all. There's also an outside scenario that in the event Spurs need cap space & can't trade Tiago or Boris, letting Danny walk is the fastest way to get 7M in cap space. Good news is that if the Spurs & DG want, signing DG to whatever after signing LA is easy.

The Manu question is much harder. Bc he's scheduled to make less & needs to be signed first, he will take away from cap space immediately since he needs to be signed first. While his new salary in your scenario has Manu making only 3M, that just makes it harder to have the cap space required to sign LA.

Trading the 1st rounder would help but not by enough to matter. The difference would be the cost of the 26th pick (1.4M~) vs a roster charge (550K~).

If Spurs trade away Tisgo on draft day & Tim takes 6M & Manu takes 3M that would leave about 14M in cap space. Not nearly enough to sign LA & Asik.

The S&T scenario is different and prob most likely. It would be a combo of using existing cap space & trading Tiago. If Manu & Tim come back like in the previous example & Spurs were to S&T Tiago, they would still have the same functional cap
Space (14M). Difference is since it's a trade vs out right signing SA can take more than the sum of their cap space back in a S&T (so effectively more than 14M). They may need to trade someone like Mills too in the scenario to make numbers work, but that's the general premise.

Either way though, Spurs can resign KL & DG to whatever they want though after all those transactions.

This is all great stuff guys. :toast It's the reason I keep coming here despite the troll posts and player fans. Great reads all of you.

[DPG21920]

Nah, it's not quite there, because that would cost another million in roster charges. Would definitely have to dump at least Mills along with Splitter. At that point, you may as well try for the S&T, since it would allow the Spurs to keep Cory and Baynes and use the MLE. Then again, if they stay over the cap, then Tim can take whatever deal he wants.

I thought w the cap jumping an extra million would put the Spurs in max range in the scenario?

[Richie]

It should also be mentioned that if Aldridge or Gasol change teams, they will almost certainly take a 2+1 deal because then they qualify for Early Bird rights if they opt out after 2 years which means they can be resigned for as much as 175% of their previous salary for up to 4 years and 7.5% rises.

[Chinook]

I thought w the cap jumping an extra million would put the Spurs in max range in the scenario?

Is it jumping and extra extra million now? Like is it up to over $68 Million? Because yes, that would help.

Another thing that would help is the Spurs offering LMA incentives that he's probably going to meet but that are technically considered "not likely to be earned". Something like him averaging at least 2.0 assists per 36. He's done that almost every year recently, but because he didn't do it last season, incentivizing it would not count against the cap. It could allow the Spurs to make up the difference. The Spurs could offer LMA a deal starting as low as $16M and still get him a max salary. Heck, they can do the same thing with Tim and get him a little more than $6 Million.

[Richie]

The Manu question is much harder. Bc he's scheduled to make less & needs to be signed first, he will take away from cap space immediately since he needs to be signed first. While his new salary in your scenario has Manu making only 3M, that just makes it harder to have the cap space required to sign LA.

I think if Manu comes back, we'll use the room exception which starts at $2.8m next year. That way to don't need to consider him when thinking about cap space for a free agent and frankly considering how he played last season, he's not worth a whole lot more than that.

[Chinook]

It should also be mentioned that if Aldridge or Gasol change teams, they will almost certainly take a 2+1 deal because then they qualify for Early Bird rights if they opt out after 2 years which means they can be resigned for as much as 175% of their previous salary for up to 4 years and 7.5% rises.

Still 4.5-percent raises. The 7.5 is full-Bird only.

[Richie]

Still 4.5-percent raises. The 7.5 is full-Bird only.

CBA FAQ (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25) says Early Bird allows for 7.5% rises

[spurs10]

There's also the very good chance that Tim just straight plays two more years. I see no reason why he can't. If I were the Spurs, I'd just guarantee all of it, seeing as that would be the best way to encourage him to stay on both years. That being said, it's almost pointless for Duncan to take so little. Duncan at $6 Million minus Splitter's $8 Million still leaves the Spurs with less than max cap space. Maybe they do plan on letting Green go and just rolling with Tony, Kawhi, Tim, Boris and LMA. But that seems like a terrible use of assets. May as well stay over the cap, especially if Manu returns. If they're over the cap, then there's no need to have Tim take less -- or to defer money to 2016. I appreciate your understanding of these salary issues. Are you suggesting they might be considering letting Green go to make room for LMA? Would they be more likely to let Splitter or Boris go? As much as I like LMA, I'd hate to lose too many valuable assets in the process.

[Chinook]

I appreciate your understanding of these salary issues. Are you suggesting they might be considering letting Green go to make room for LMA? Would they be more likely to let Splitter or Boris go? As much as I like LMA, I'd hate to lose too many valuable assets in the process.

If they really do want Manu back at all costs, then they are probably willing to let go of Green. I think they'll be more inclined to move Splitter than Diaw, even though Tiago is a better fit with those two and long term. Boris is the nicer trade asset after this coming season, though. In 2017, he's pretty much Dampier 3.0.

[Chinook]

CBA FAQ (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25) says Early Bird allows for 7.5% rises

You're correct. Dunno why I forgot that.

[manufan10]

So, if I understand correctly, if the Spurs want to acquire LMA it also comes down to choosing between Manu and Green? Or is it still possible to retain both Manu and Green?

[Chinook]

So, if I understand correctly, if the Spurs want to acquire LMA it also comes down to choosing between Manu and Green? Or is it still possible to retain both Manu and Green?

It depends on salary. If Manu insists on taking $7 Million again, and Tim takes $10 Million, then the Spurs aren't getting LMA without losing BOTH Danny and Tiago. If they both took the minimum, then they could keep all four while getting Aldridge (though they'd have to move Mills or have LMA take the $16ish Million they'd have in cap space).

[DPG21920]

Can retain both, just makes it more difficult.

[dabom]

We can go over the cap right?

[dabom]

I'm certain if the spurs want to win next season peter holt won't mind paying tax.

[Nathan89]

Duncan and Parker should trade salaries on that list - then it'd be reasonable. Maybe if we fans see it as Duncan giving up his salary for Parker's, we wouldn't be so dissatisfied.

Parker would still be overpaid.

[DPG21920]

Hopefully there will be more credible sources coming out soon. I would be really shocked if we don't hear a formal announcement before the draft.

[Richie]

So, if I understand correctly, if the Spurs want to acquire LMA it also comes down to choosing between Manu and Green? Or is it still possible to retain both Manu and Green?

Chinook is right it's about salary. Assuming this report of Timmy taking $6m is correct, then I think offering Manu a reasonable $2.8m this year and a 50% guaranteed $3m next year with the Room Exception. That way if both of them retire after this coming season, they effectively played this year for $10m and $4.3m respectively, and Manu would have no impact on our cap situation since he's being signed using an exception.

[spurs10]

If they really do want Manu back at all costs, then they are probably willing to let go of Green. I think they'll be more inclined to move Splitter than Diaw, even though Tiago is a better fit with those two and long term. Boris is the nicer trade asset after this coming season, though. In 2017, he's pretty much Dampier 3.0. Thank you. Very interesting. Agree about Tiago being a better fit long term, but more likely to be moved.

[Seventyniner]

I'm certain if the spurs want to win next season peter holt won't mind paying tax.

I would hope that if Holt were willing to pay the tax for Richard Jefferson, he would do so for Aldridge.

[Richie]

I'm certain if the spurs want to win next season peter holt won't mind paying tax.

I would be amazed if any owner refused to pay the tax over the next 2 years considering future cap projections.

[TD 21]

If they really do want Manu back at all costs, then they are probably willing to let go of Green. I think they'll be more inclined to move Splitter than Diaw, even though Tiago is a better fit with those two and long term. Boris is the nicer trade asset after this coming season, though. In 2017, he's pretty much Dampier 3.0.

Of course they want Ginobili back at all costs, but they know how valuable Green is, that it would be nearly impossible to replace him and that they need to go all in. Doing so would also help with wooing Aldridge. If him signing means creating a gaping hole elsewhere, I'd imagine he'd be less inclined to sign, because even with him, they'd still need to be a sum of their parts type team to win it all.

No matter how difficult/expensive it would be to have a top eight of Duncan, Aldridge, Leonard, Green, Parker, Ginobili, Diaw, Mills, you've said yourself that it's doable.

In regards to the report, I predicted they'd do this with Duncan and Ginobili, so suffice it to say, I'm not the least bit surprised.

[tholdren]

bye tiago… finally

[tholdren]

If this is the case why couldn't SA pursue Milsap and keep everyone? If you have to be "wooed" or "swayed" into coming to play, then you really don't have the mentality of the Spurs anyway, correct? The Spurs are about winning, playing the right way, and behaving the right way. Make a big-boy choice of where you want to play, sign the paperwork, stay off the damn social media, and get to work. Sad SAS fans have had it so good, now we have to deal with the prima donna bullshit. I know no-one can sign until 7/8 but I'm throwing it out there, I don't want any indecisiveness from whoever SAS get

[manufan10]

Thanks Chinook DPG21920 and Richie. :tu

[heyheymymy]

Thanks Chinook (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) DPG21920 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=13014) and Richie (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=29995). :tu

[spurs10]

Thanks Chinook (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) DPG21920 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=13014) and Richie (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=29995). :tu

[Big P]

If this is the case why couldn't SA pursue Milsap and keep everyone? If you have to be "wooed" or "swayed" into coming to play, then you really don't have the mentality of the Spurs anyway, correct? The Spurs are about winning, playing the right way, and behaving the right way. Make a big-boy choice of where you want to play, sign the paperwork, stay off the damn social media, and get to work. Sad SAS fans have had it so good, now we have to deal with the prima donna bullshit. I know no-one can sign until 7/8 but I'm throwing it out there, I don't want any indecisiveness from whoever SAS get

Because Millsap, while a very good player, is undersized, over 30 and looking at his last big payday contract of something in the neighborhood of $13-15 mil per year. No thanks, I would rather not sign any "major" FA's and have a ton of cap space to work with next year, than sign someone just o use cap space this summer.

[Russo21]

All these numbers make my head hurt. Will be interesting to see what happens. I'm glad i'm not in the front office or the dude paying the bills!

[baseline bum]

Chinook is right it's about salary. Assuming this report of Timmy taking $6m is correct, then I think offering Manu a reasonable $2.8m this year and a 50% guaranteed $3m next year with the Room Exception. That way if both of them retire after this coming season, they effectively played this year for $10m and $4.3m respectively, and Manu would have no impact on our cap situation since he's being signed using an exception.

Doing that forces a Splitter + Mills salary dump if Adridge wants to come. Cleveland could be a willing partner with Brenda's expiring, but fuck, how stacked would they be with a starting lineup of Irving/Mills/James/Love/Splitter and then Varejao/Mozgov/Thomson/Shumpert off the bench? Doubtful the Spurs would beat that team if they make the Finals in 2016.

[AFBlue]

Doing that forces a Splitter + Mills salary dump if Adridge wants to come. Cleveland could be a willing partner with Brenda's expiring, but fuck, how stacked would they be with a starting lineup of Irving/Mills/James/Love/Splitter and then Varejao/Mozgov/Thomson/Shumpert off the bench? Doubtful the Spurs would beat that team if they make the Finals in 2016.

Mills + Splitter for the #24 pick is not appealing at all tbqh. Mills alone could fetch the #24 pick and they can offload Splitter in a separate deal if the Aldridge thing looks like it's coming to fruition. I don't know who you'd target at #24, but maybe you could package those two picks to move up a few spots for the guy you really like...Harrell, Anderson, Vaughn.

[TheGoldStandard]

Doing that forces a Splitter + Mills salary dump if Adridge wants to come. Cleveland could be a willing partner with Brenda's expiring, but fuck, how stacked would they be with a starting lineup of Irving/Mills/James/Love/Splitter and then Varejao/Mozgov/Thomson/Shumpert off the bench? Doubtful the Spurs would beat that team if they make the Finals in 2016.

Splitter and Irving will be hurt again

[Richie]

Doing that forces a Splitter + Mills salary dump if Adridge wants to come. Cleveland could be a willing partner with Brenda's expiring, but fuck, how stacked would they be with a starting lineup of Irving/Mills/James/Love/Splitter and then Varejao/Mozgov/Thomson/Shumpert off the bench? Doubtful the Spurs would beat that team if they make the Finals in 2016.

If we're trading Splitter I think we will be close enough to Aldridges max to keep Mills. We'd be around $1m short of his first year salary but the reality is that he will almost certainly opt out after 2 years and take advantage of the cap jump, so whatever minimal salary he loses over those two years he will more than make back in his next contract.

Over the first 2 years of his next contract (assuming he signs for $1m under his max) the Spurs would pay him around $36.5m, whereas in Portland he would earn $39m over the same time period or $38.5m signing for the max with another team. $2.5m is hardly worth thinking about when you consider he'll be signing a contract worth well over $100m in 2017.

[Amarelooms]

Aldridge going Dallas or staying Portland. What y'all talking bout? Lol

[Ditty]

No worries - we are all here to learn & talk Spurs. The first thing is really understanding that there are two types of FAs for SA: ones that impact cap space (Duncan & Manu) and ones that don't (Kawhi & Danny). The reason for that is their cap holds & nothing else. Tim & Manus cap holds are for more money than they are likely to be re-signed for. So that means they have to be signed 1st. KL & DG have cap holds that are less than they will be signed for most likely so luckily they don't impact signing FAs with cap space.

With that in mind, to answer your question about landing LA & signing Danny to 10M+, every scenario keeps that in play. The only things that will/can stop that is if DG just doesn't want to be back or Spurs aren't willing to have a payroll that high to keep them all. There's also an outside scenario that in the event Spurs need cap space & can't trade Tiago or Boris, letting Danny walk is the fastest way to get 7M in cap space. Good news is that if the Spurs & DG want, signing DG to whatever after signing LA is easy.

The Manu question is much harder. Bc he's scheduled to make less & needs to be signed first, he will take away from cap space immediately since he needs to be signed first. While his new salary in your scenario has Manu making only 3M, that just makes it harder to have the cap space required to sign LA.

Trading the 1st rounder would help but not by enough to matter. The difference would be the cost of the 26th pick (1.4M~) vs a roster charge (550K~).

If Spurs trade away Tisgo on draft day & Tim takes 6M & Manu takes 3M that would leave about 14M in cap space. Not nearly enough to sign LA & Asik.

The S&T scenario is different and prob most likely. It would be a combo of using existing cap space & trading Tiago. If Manu & Tim come back like in the previous example & Spurs were to S&T Tiago, they would still have the same functional cap
Space (14M). Difference is since it's a trade vs out right signing SA can take more than the sum of their cap space back in a S&T (so effectively more than 14M). They may need to trade someone like Mills too in the scenario to make numbers work, but that's the general premise.

Either way though, Spurs can resign KL & DG to whatever they want though after all those transactions.

Thanks for the insight bro :toast

Could this scenario work also saw this on db.com:

Tiago Splitter (nearly signed an offer sheet with Portland in summer 2013) + Patty Mills + Kyle Anderson

For

Signed-for-trade LaMarcus Aldridge

Sign Kawhi Leonard (restricted free agent)
Sign Cory Joseph (restricted free agent)
Sign Aaron Baynes (restricted free agent)
Sign Danny Green (full Bird rights)

Over-the-cap exceptions as below

Sign Ginobili to BAE
Sign Duncan to MLE

Fill out roster with veteran minimum

(Pre-free-agency

Draft a wing (e.g. Justin Anderson))

Parker/Joseph
Green/Ginobili
Leonard/Anderson
Aldridge/Diaw
Duncan/Baynes

[DPG21920]

Yes, it's possible. Only thing to watchout for is when you do a S&T, you are now subject to the "apron". Once you do a S&T, no matter what, a team cannot go over the apron (4M over the Luxury Tax line). So all that money (depending on Green's amount, etc..) can't go over that apron.

So while it could be done, that is something to consider.

[Ditty]

Yes, it's possible. Only thing to watchout for is when you do a S&T, you are now subject to the "apron". Once you do a S&T, no matter what, a team cannot go over the apron (4M over the Luxury Tax line). So all that money (depending on Green's amount, etc..) can't go over that apron.

So while it could be done, that is something to consider.

Sorry if you mentioned this.

Is it possible that the Spurs can agree with Tim for $6 million for the first year and Manu for $3 million one year contract at the start of free agency, then agree with a sign and trade that would send Splitter/Patty(unfortunately)/Anderson for Aldridge, then use the MLE on a possible Splitter replacement, then give Green and Leonard what they want, while matching any deals for Joseph and Baynes? Or is it either you use your cap space, or sign all your players first and use the MLE/BAE for free agents?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

As a huge Manu fan, the guy needs to play for what he can contribute - somewhere between the vet minimum and about a million more than that. Take the cut for the good of the team.

[DPG21920]

Sorry if you mentioned this.

Is it possible that the Spurs can agree with Tim for $6 million for the first year and Manu for $3 million one year contract at the start of free agency, then agree with a sign and trade that would send Splitter/Patty(unfortunately)/Anderson for Aldridge, then use the MLE on a possible Splitter replacement, then give Green and Leonard what they want, while matching any deals for Joseph and Baynes? Or is it either you use your cap space, or sign all your players first and use the MLE/BAE for free agents?

No worries - ya you have to do one or the other. If you use cap space you can't use the MLE (at least not the full MLE). You can agree with Tim/Manu like you said and still do a S&T, but that S&T only works in that scenario because the cap space + trade of all of those players is enough cap space to absorb LA.

You can give Green & Kawhi what you want to in the scenario - just can't use the full MLE. The only way to use the full MLE (which is a great idea) would be to stay over the cap entirely, then do the S&T for LA and use the MLE.

[Ditty]

No worries - ya you have to do one or the other. If you use cap space you can't use the MLE (at least not the full MLE). You can agree with Tim/Manu like you said and still do a S&T, but that S&T only works in that scenario because the cap space + trade of all of those players is enough cap space to absorb LA.

You can give Green & Kawhi what you want to in the scenario - just can't use the full MLE. The only way to use the full MLE (which is a great idea) would be to stay over the cap entirely, then do the S&T for LA and use the MLE.

:toast

[TheGreatYacht]

Only player we should max this offseason, tbh

[rmt]

Parker would still be overpaid.

I agree that he'd still be overpaid but I can stomach the thought of only 6 million instead of 13-15 million. And if I can imagine Timmy getting the 13-15mil instead - well, it's Timmy and he's worth it. It's the only way for me to reconcile his salary and not get pissed every time I see his incessant dribbling.

[MaNu4Tres]

I wouldn't do that unless the Spurs are 100% sold on Kyle Anderson being able to play point. A quickly declining Parker as the only point guard on the team is a frightening thought.

You wouldn't trade Mills/Splitter for LA because of the back up PG scenario?

....Am I missing something?

You can't pass up the opportunity on an All-Star 20 and 10 guy like Aldridge because you're worried about the back up PG scenario. Spurs may never have another opportunity to get a guy like Aldridge in the next 10 years. IMO

[Chinook]

Thanks for the insight bro :toast

Could this scenario work also saw this on db.com:

Tiago Splitter (nearly signed an offer sheet with Portland in summer 2013) + Patty Mills + Kyle Anderson

For

Signed-for-trade LaMarcus Aldridge

Sign Kawhi Leonard (restricted free agent)
Sign Cory Joseph (restricted free agent)
Sign Aaron Baynes (restricted free agent)
Sign Danny Green (full Bird rights)

Over-the-cap exceptions as below

Sign Ginobili to BAE
Sign Duncan to MLE

Fill out roster with veteran minimum

(Pre-free-agency

Draft a wing (e.g. Justin Anderson))

Parker/Joseph
Green/Ginobili
Leonard/Anderson
Aldridge/Diaw
Duncan/Baynes

If you S&T for LMA, then you don't need Duncan to take less. There's no reason for Tim to agree to the MLE, and in fact that's a MAJOR waste of resources for the Spurs if he took it. If the Spurs are going to do an S&T, it won't be using cap space, as the team is just throwing Splitter and Mills away in that scenario. The point of trading both is to allow the Spurs to keep their Bird rights and their exceptions. Otherwise, trade those guys to a third team for assets and sign LMA without a S&T.

[Chinook]

You can give Green & Kawhi what you want to in the scenario - just can't use the full MLE. The only way to use the full MLE (which is a great idea) would be to stay over the cap entirely, then do the S&T for LA and use the MLE.

Mills, Anderson and Splitter would allow the Spurs to take back about $18.3 Million in full salary. If that's not close enough for LMA, tough cookies. So the Spurs could totally stay above the cap in that scenario.

[baseline bum]

You wouldn't trade Mills/Splitter for LA because of the back up PG scenario?

....Am I missing something?

You can't pass up the opportunity on an All-Star 20 and 10 guy like Aldridge because you're worried about the back up PG scenario. Spurs may never have another opportunity to get a guy like Aldridge in the next 10 years. IMO

He's on the wrong side of 30 and the Spurs would be completely gutting the team to get him then. It's not like they'd be signing 1997 Shaq who a title team could be built around with him as the centerpiece.

[Chinook]

He's on the wrong side of 30 and the Spurs would be completely gutting the team to get him then. It's not like they'd be signing 1997 Shaq who a title team could be built around with him as the centerpiece.

Yeah, but you don't turn down a trade to keep Mills, especially when it gives you the flexibility to keep Joseph (who I think will be better for the team long term anyway) and use the MLE to bring in talent. If the Blazers wanted Cory in a S&T, that would be one thing. But if it's a choice between Mills and Cory and flexibility, I don't think it's even a question.

[MaNu4Tres]

He's on the wrong side of 30 and the Spurs would be completely gutting the team to get him then. It's not like they'd be signing 1997 Shaq who a title team could be built around with him as the centerpiece.

Trading away Splitter/Mills to get Aldridge is not "completely gutting the team".

[Raven]

yuck

[baseline bum]

Yeah, but you don't turn down a trade to keep Mills, especially when it gives you the flexibility to keep Joseph (who I think will be better for the team long term anyway) and use the MLE to bring in talent. If the Blazers wanted Cory in a S&T, that would be one thing. But if it's a choice between Mills and Cory and flexibility, I don't think it's even a question.

I don't see Joseph as better, Mills is the one who actually performs in the playoffs, and the Spurs need a competent point guard. Aldridge is a complimentary player, not a cornerstone to gut your team for. He'd be an upgrade over Splitter, but if he was a cornerstone his team would have actually done something in all these years.

[baseline bum]

Trading away Splitter/Mills to get Aldridge is not "completely gutting the team".

The team would be Porker/Green/Leonard/Aldridge/Duncan/Diaw/Anderson/Joseph. That's gutted. You'd have one competent bench player.

[dabom]

The team would be Porker/Green/Leonard/Aldridge/Duncan/Diaw/Anderson/Joseph. That's gutted. You'd have one competent bench player.

3 top ten players in that starting lineup. Who cares about our bench. Green Kawhi and Aldridge can play more minutes. Green and Kawhi are young.

[baseline bum]

3 top ten players in that starting lineup. Who cares about our bench. Green Kawhi and Aldridge can play more minutes. Green and Kawhi are young.

Three top ten players? What are you smoking? Worst case scenario (e.g. Durant is done) these eight are clearly above anyone on the roster.

Davis
James
Paul
Curry
Westrbook
Harden
Griffin
Cousins

[dabom]

Three top ten players? What are you smoking? Worst case scenario (e.g. Durant is done) these eight are clearly above anyone on the roster.

Davis
James
Paul
Curry
Westrbook
Harden
Griffin
Cousins

Cousins putting up numbers on a trash team. KAwhi Aldridge and Duncan are top 10. Duncan makes it due to always going clutch when you need him. He usually hides until we need him. Even if you disagree 3 top 15 players in the same roster is sick.

[baseline bum]

Cousins putting up numbers on a trash team. KAwhi Aldridge and Duncan are top 10. Duncan makes it due to always going clutch when you need him. He usually hides until we need him. Even if you disagree 3 top 15 players in the same roster is sick.

So throw Cousins off and hope Durant is done, and it goes Leonard 8, Aldridge 9, Duncan 10?

[Seventyniner]

Mills, Anderson and Splitter would allow the Spurs to take back about $18.3 Million in full salary. If that's not close enough for LMA, tough cookies. So the Spurs could totally stay above the cap in that scenario.

Could adding Reggie Williams let the Spurs give LMA the full max? (I forget if it was $18.6M or $18.9M)

[dabom]

So throw Cousins off and hope Durant is done, and it goes Leonard 8, Aldridge 9, Duncan 10?

Yeah. You can rank them differently though. Nothing much would change.

[Chinook]

Could adding Reggie Williams let the Spurs give LMA the full max? (I forget if it was $18.6M or $18.9M)

It definitely would, but is it even confirmed that the Spurs got him to agree to that extra year? If so, sub him out for Anderson.

[Chinook]

I don't see Joseph as better, Mills is the one who actually performs in the playoffs, and the Spurs need a competent point guard. Aldridge is a complimentary player, not a cornerstone to gut your team for. He'd be an upgrade over Splitter, but if he was a cornerstone his team would have actually done something in all these years.

Mills isn't a competent point-guard, and nothing he's ever done has suggested that. He's been a competent undersized scorer next to Manu. As Manu gets older, you need someone who can drive and get their own shot. Cory can do that much better than Mills can, and he's a better passer. I don't think it's close.

[Chinook]

The team would be Porker/Green/Leonard/Aldridge/Duncan/Diaw/Anderson/Joseph. That's gutted. You'd have one competent bench player.

Team would be:

PG: Parker, Joseph, LLE player
SG: Green, Manu or Beli, draft pick
SF: Leonard, LJC, draft pick
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, Thomas or second-rounder
C: Duncan, Baynes, MLE player

It's actually a VERY full roster. That's the point of making the trade in the first place.

[look_at_g_shred]

3 top ten players in that starting lineup. Who cares about our bench. Green Kawhi and Aldridge can play more minutes. Green and Kawhi are young.
What? :lol You need depth to make it far in the playoffs.

[dabom]

What? :lol You need depth to make it far in the playoffs.

Great players win championships not role players.

[look_at_g_shred]

Great players win championships not role players.
dude 2014 chip was all about role players contributing all around. Check the tape.

[dabom]

dude 2014 chip was all about role players contributing all around. Check the tape.

90% of the chips are won by great players not a balanced team. Nice example dude. I can show you way more examples.

[cjw]

Yeah, but you don't turn down a trade to keep Mills, especially when it gives you the flexibility to keep Joseph (who I think will be better for the team long term anyway) and use the MLE to bring in talent. If the Blazers wanted Cory in a S&T, that would be one thing. But if it's a choice between Mills and Cory and flexibility, I don't think it's even a question.

That's the big advantage to staying over the cap (and why Spurs have kept all those really cap holds to give them that flexibility). If a S&T needs to happen, they have CoJo as a backup and always an option to keep Believe then too (better than what you find on a min contract).

[monkeypunk]

Great players win championships not role players.

Iggy from GSW says Hi.

[look_at_g_shred]

90% of the chips are won by great players not a balanced team. Nice example dude. I can show you way more examples.
2013 chip was also won by role players... Game 6 I.E Ray Allen Game 7 I.E Shane Battier, Mike Miller

[dabom]

90% of the chips are won by great players not a balanced team. Nice example dude. I can show you way more examples.

[DPG21920]

Got damn can I just hibernate until Thurs afternoon?

[cd021]

2013 chip was also won by role players... Game 6 I.E Ray Allen Game 7 I.E Shane Battier, Mike Miller

Battier playing possum then nailing 6 threes in 7 :depressed

[Killakobe81]

Gotta be kidding me. Great by Tim if true ... but yall should at least pay him the 20 million that schiester stole from him ...have y'all no shame? I get winning matters more than anything but sometimes you gotta do "the right thing".

[look_at_g_shred]

Battier playing possum then nailing 6 threes in 7 :depressed
:depressed

[Dex]

Got damn can I just hibernate until Thurs afternoon?

No kidding. This offseason has been brutal and we haven't even hit draft day yet.

Fucking Chris Paul.

[look_at_g_shred]

No kidding. This offseason has been brutal and we haven't even hit draft day yet.

Fucking Chris Paul.Yep. Actually excited for the next few weeks..

[BillMc]

Got damn can I just hibernate until Thurs afternoon?

Yeah me too.

With the draft tomorrow you'd would have thought we'd have heard some decisions by Tim and Manu, as I would assume that affects the Spurs' mindset going into the draft. I wonder if they've been given answers but its not public yet?

[Seventyniner]

If the Spurs do manage to stay over the cap, either via a sign-and-trade for Aldridge or just keeping the current team together plus an MLE signing, could Holt do Duncan a favor and give him a huge 1-year deal? That would preserve potential cap room for next summer and allow the Spurs to pay Duncan whatever in 2016-2017.

[Dex]

Yeah me too.

With the draft tomorrow you'd would have heard some decisions by Tim and Manu, as I would assume that affects the Spurs' mindset going into the draft. I wonder if they've been given answers but its not public yet?

Are they even allowed to announce a decision before July 1st?

[BillMc]

Are they even allowed to announce a decision before July 1st?

They can't announce a signing, but Manu and Tim could make it publicly known they don't intend to retire.

[DPG21920]

Yeah me too.

With the draft tomorrow you'd would have heard some decisions by Tim and Manu, as I would assume that affects the Spurs' mindset going into the draft. I wonder if they've been given answers but its not public yet?

In my opinion yes. I believe an announcement is imminent in the next day or so. Worst case, by July 1st. But I would imagine Manu/Tim respect the Spurs enough to give them a decision so they can plan for the draft and FA.

[DPG21920]

If the Spurs do manage to stay over the cap, either via a sign-and-trade for Aldridge or just keeping the current team together plus an MLE signing, could Holt do Duncan a favor and give him a huge 1-year deal? That would preserve potential cap room for next summer and allow the Spurs to pay Duncan whatever in 2016-2017.


Absolutely. If the Spurs are going to stay over the cap, they can pay Duncan whatever they want up to his max and it not matter.

[Seventyniner]

Absolutely. If the Spurs are going to stay over the cap, they can pay Duncan whatever they want up to his max and it not matter.

I was thinking something like a 1-year $22M deal, with the understanding that if Duncan wants to play more after that he'll sign for the vet min each year. Does that run afoul of the CBA? I know that it couldn't be in writing and would be unenforcable: if Duncan took the money and then wanted more than the minimum the next year, the Spurs couldn't do anything about it.

[DPG21920]

I was thinking something like a 1-year $22M deal, with the understanding that if Duncan wants to play more after that he'll sign for the vet min each year. Does that run afoul of the CBA? I know that it couldn't be in writing and would be unenforcable: if Duncan took the money and then wanted more than the minimum the next year, the Spurs couldn't do anything about it.

That's all correct.

[Seventyniner]

That's all correct.

Got it, thanks. :toast

[cd021]

I was thinking something like a 1-year $22M deal, with the understanding that if Duncan wants to play more after that he'll sign for the vet min each year. Does that run afoul of the CBA? I know that it couldn't be in writing and would be unenforcable: if Duncan took the money and then wanted more than the minimum the next year, the Spurs couldn't do anything about it.

I heard it would have to be a two year deal, but other than that, I thinking the same thing.

[AFBlue]

In my opinion yes. I believe an announcement is imminent in the next day or so. Worst case, by July 1st. But I would imagine Manu/Tim respect the Spurs enough to give them a decision so they can plan for the draft and FA.

I don't think the draft is necessarily impacted by their decision in the short term. But, I also wouldn't be surprised if they let the FO know prior to going public.

[cjw]

They can't announce a signing, but Manu and Tim could make it publicly known they don't intend to retire.

better for us to know as fans, but better for front office to keep it under wraps for negotiating leverage. Better for teams not to know about cap space needs in event trying to extract top dollar for Splitter.

[BillMc]

better for us to know as fans, but better for front office to keep it under wraps for negotiating leverage. Better for teams not to know about cap space needs in event trying to extract top dollar for Splitter.
True.