We Had To Kill Our Patients

[Nbadan]

We had to kill our patients
by CAROLINE GRAHAM and JO KNOWSLEY, Mail on Sunday


Doctors working in hurricane-ravaged New Orleans killed critically ill patients rather than leaving them to die in agony as they evacuated hospitals, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.

With gangs of rapists and looters rampaging through wards in the flooded city, senior doctors took the harrowing decision to give massive overdoses of morphine to those they believed could not make it out alive.

In an extraordinary interview with The Mail on Sunday, one New Orleans doctor told how she 'prayed for God to have mercy on her soul' after she ignored every tenet of medical ethics and ended the lives of patients she had earlier fought to save.

Her heart-rending account has been corroborated by a hospital orderly and by local government officials. One emergency official, William 'Forest' McQueen, said: "Those who had no chance of making it were given a lot of morphine and lain down in a dark place to die."

Euthanasia is illegal in Louisiana, and The Mail on Sunday is protecting the identities of the medical staff concerned to prevent them being made scapegoats for the events of last week.

Their families believe their confessions are an indictment of the appalling failure of American authorities to help those in desperate need after Hurricane Katrina flooded the city, claiming thousands of lives and making 500,000 homeless.

'These people were going to die anyway'

Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=361980&in_page_id=1770)

Given the confidentiality of the source in this story it is nearly impossible to coolaberate, but stories of hospital patients being left in the city to die are not unusual.

What a horrible decision to have to make.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Thank god those that they killed weren't white people descended from a wealthy family or it would be Zombie Terri Schiavo part deux.

Also, thank god no pretty, rich, pregnant girls got kidnapped these past few weeks or we wouldn't be getting all this good hurricane katrina news

[mookie2001]

wtf happened to natalie hollaway??

I WANT ANSWERS!

[mugatu]

This is very sad, Why can't the Bush lovers post these kind of topics? Thank GOD for NBADAN

[Vashner]

This is very sad, Why can't the Bush lovers post these kind of topics? Thank GOD for NBADAN

Are you that stupid? Bush injected the venom into the patient?

Oh wait or he didn't beam scotty into the hospital?

One of his top priorties was to help hospitals. It takes time because people where all over the place.

If anything the Governer and Mayor killed these patients.

[Useruser666]

This is fucking crazy. The hospitals had PLENTY time to evac those people. That is a stupid excuse to kill those people and they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. What a crock of shit that they "had" to kill the patients.


Daily Mail

Given the confidentiality of the source in this story it is nearly impossible to coolaberate, but stories of hospital patients being left in the city to die are not unusual.

What a horrible decision to have to make.


col·lab·o·rate Audio pronunciation of "collaborate" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (k-lb-rt)
intr.v. col·lab·o·rat·ed, col·lab·o·rat·ing, col·lab·o·rates

1. To work together, especially in a joint intellectual effort.
2. To cooperate treasonably, as with an enemy occupation force in one's country.



cor·rob·o·rate Audio pronunciation of "corroborate" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (k-rb-rt)
tr.v. cor·rob·o·rat·ed, cor·rob·o·rat·ing, cor·rob·o·rates

To strengthen or support with other evidence; make more certain. See Synonyms at confirm.

Yeah Dan, I bet those people were collaborating with each other...... :lmao

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Pointing out spelling, grammatical, and syntax errors is one of the most juvenile things you could possibly do. but thats just mine opinion,

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I have to be highly skeptical of a British tabloid on this.

That said, those hospitals had plenty of time to evac their patients, and it's wrong what they did if this story is true.

I'm not following what this has to do with "Bush posters", oh wait - according to the left Bush is the one who was bedside injecting the morphine. Nevermind.

[hussker]

Nice way to sell newspapers and media time. Prove it. You cannot. If the reports from the DMort come out and show that, so be it. It is unfortunate indeed, but again, we live in a world we CANNOT control as humans. I see blame going all over the place, but it is a Natural Disaster, an Act Of God, and a poor series of choices by our leaders at every level.

[hussker]

This Just In:
Sources show that there is a specific connection between George Bush and the recent investments made in Morphine worldwide! I think Halliburton, AKA, KBR, is runnig drugs from Afghanistan. (Please note sarcasm)

[Mr Hanky]

This is fucking crazy. The hospitals had PLENTY time to evac those people. That is a stupid excuse to kill those people and they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. What a crock of shit that they "had" to kill the patients.








Yeah Dan, I bet those people were collaborating with each other...... :lmao



Post of the day^

[Useruser666]

Pointing out spelling, grammatical, and syntax errors is one of the most juvenile things you could possibly do. but thats just mine opinion,

I wasn't pointing out a spelling error or gramatical mistake. I was pointing out the irony in the wording Dan used. I also debated the validity of his post. He wants verifiable sources yet then posts things with the excuse that they can't be verified. That's very hypocritical.

Then, on a totally different note, I think this story is bogus. Either the source is pulling info from out of the air, or it is a total fabrication. How come it was never mentioned ANYWHERE else that hospitals were putting their patients to DEATH because they couldn't evac them? Just think about that idea for a minute and think how ridiculous it even sounds.

Lastly, if in fact nurses or doctors would do something like that, should be found and prosecuted. It just an over the top idea that doesn't even fit the events that are actually happening in NO.

[hussker]

Dead Thread...like most of the poli threads here. very little subsatnce but tons of rhetoric and emotion. Emotions are liars

[Nbadan]

Then, on a totally different note, I think this story is bogus. Either the source is pulling info from out of the air, or it is a total fabrication. How come it was never mentioned ANYWHERE else that hospitals were putting their patients to DEATH because they couldn't evac them? Just think about that idea for a minute and think how ridiculous it even sounds.

Lastly, if in fact nurses or doctors would do something like that, should be found and prosecuted. It just an over the top idea that doesn't even fit the events that are actually happening in NO.

Yes, the idea sounds ridiculous, but given the tragic chain of events that we already know went on in NO, this is sadly par-for-course. My thoughts are that the doctors and or nurses did what they felt they had to do. Without electricity, constant medical care, and any chance of being evacuated these patients were dead anyway. Better to go with someone who loves you around.

[Useruser666]

Yes, the idea sounds ridiculous, but given the tragic chain of events that we already know went on in NO, this is sadly par-for-course. My thoughts are that the doctors and or nurses did what they felt they had to do. Without electricity, constant medical care, and any chance of being evacuated these patients were dead anyway. Better to go with someone who loves you around.

Who said the hospitals didn't have power? Who said patients in hospitals weren't getting constant medical care? I have seen zero evidence to support any of what that story is claiming. And believeing it's true just because there are other horrible stories that have come from Katrina, doesn't shed any light on weather this story is real or fabrication.

[Nbadan]

Who said the hospitals didn't have power? Who said patients in hospitals weren't getting constant medical care? I have seen zero evidence to support any of what that story is claiming. And believeing it's true just because there are other horrible stories that have come from Katrina, doesn't shed any light on weather this story is real or fabrication.

There was no power in 99% of NO and no gas for generators. Nurses and aides had to run defibulators and respirators with hand pumps, but go ahead and live in your little world of denial.

[The Ressurrected One]

Of course, you could all just do as I do and put Nbadan on ignore...it would sure save a lot of bandwidth.

[Useruser666]

There was no power in 99% of NO and no gas for generators. Nurses and aides had to run defibulators and respirators with hand pumps, but go ahead and live in your little world of denial.

Dan, the hospitals have emergency genreators. They also have fuel to power those generators. How stupid would it be to have a hospital that when the power went out, everyone died?

[Nbadan]

Of course, you could all just do as I do and put Nbadan on ignore...it would sure save a lot of bandwidth.

Most people prefer to be open-minded.


'So many of these people are so poor and so black'

- Wolfe Blitzer, CNN

[Nbadan]

... is "William "Forest" McQeen" quoted in the Mail article actually a groundskeeper?


Mother-of-two Suzanne McQueen, of Maidstone, Kent, is waiting for news of her American husband (William) Forest McQueen.

He has been working in his home country since 1997, and lives and works with his brother in the Abita Springs area, north of Lake Pontchartrain, which is north of New Orleans.

The couple married in the UK in 1991, and Suzanne said she and her daughters - aged 11 and 13 - were planning to move to the US to join her husband as soon as was possible.

Mr McQueen's wife has had no news from his friends and family
Part of his job there is to maintain the grounds of an old plantation house, she said.

"I phoned the morning the hurricane hit, and his brother said Forest hadn't been home for the last 24 hours because he'd been on shift clearing up trees and lines from all the wind damage that came before the hurricane. I haven't heard anything since.

BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4220656.stm)

Does this completely compromise The Daily Mail claims?

I would have had a hard time swallowing this whole thing if i had not seen the OPrah show this week she had a top notch surgeon go to the airport to report and he ended up doing some work while there to report for Oprah's story..well this surgeon went into the morgue section set up at the airport...he went in and when he came out with cameras rolling it was obvious he was extremely shook up...he said ..( not his words..but what i remember you can get trascript i am sure) but he said dying patients were put in the morgue to die as they could not take care of them all...he said he has experienced alot of death in his career , but he had never seen anything even close to this bad, that people were put in the morgue with no family or loved ones, or anyone ..and they were left to die alone in the morgue.

but he said dying patients were put in the morgue to die as they could not take care of them all...he said he has experienced alot of death in his career , but he had never seen anything even close to this bad, that people were put in the morgue with no family or loved ones, or anyone ..and they were left to die in the morgue!

then there is the story of the nursing home where 14 patients were found who had been abandoned by nursing care and they all died ...

[Useruser666]

Again, people abandoned by healthcare workers are one thing. Healthcare workers killing entire hospitals of patients is another. Not treating people who are untreatable is common in disasters.

tri·age Audio pronunciation of "triage" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tr-äzh, träzh)
n.

1. A process for sorting injured people into groups based on their need for or likely benefit from immediate medical treatment. Triage is used in hospital emergency rooms, on battlefields, and at disaster sites when limited medical resources must be allocated.
2. A system used to allocate a scarce commodity, such as food, only to those capable of deriving the greatest benefit from it.
3. A process in which things are ranked in terms of importance or priority: “For millions of Americans, each week becomes a stressful triage between work and home that leaves them feeling guilty, exhausted and angry” (Jill Smolowe).

tri·age (tr-äzh, träzh)
n.

A process for sorting injured people into groups based on their need for or likely benefit from immediate medical treatment. Triage is used on the battlefield, at disaster sites, and in hospital emergency rooms when limited medical resources must be allocated.

[xrayzebra]

... is "William "Forest" McQeen" quoted in the Mail article actually a groundskeeper?



BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4220656.stm)

Does this completely compromise The Daily Mail claims?

I would have had a hard time swallowing this whole thing if i had not seen the OPrah show this week she had a top notch surgeon go to the airport to report and he ended up doing some work while there to report for Oprah's story..well this surgeon went into the morgue section set up at the airport...he went in and when he came out with cameras rolling it was obvious he was extremely shook up...he said ..( not his words..but what i remember you can get trascript i am sure) but he said dying patients were put in the morgue to die as they could not take care of them all...he said he has experienced alot of death in his career , but he had never seen anything even close to this bad, that people were put in the morgue with no family or loved ones, or anyone ..and they were left to die alone in the morgue.

but he said dying patients were put in the morgue to die as they could not take care of them all...he said he has experienced alot of death in his career , but he had never seen anything even close to this bad, that people were put in the morgue with no family or loved ones, or anyone ..and they were left to die in the morgue!

then there is the story of the nursing home where 14 patients were found who had been abandoned by nursing care and they all died ...

I am sure they are part of the 10,000 that were reported to have died in
New Orleans. Get a life and take off the tinfoil, Dan.

Just try to think rationally for once.

:elephant :elephant :elephant :elephant

[Nbadan]

NEW ORLEANS - Forty-five bodies have been found at a hospital that was abandoned more than a week ago after it was surrounded by floodwaters unleashed by Hurricane Katrina, a state health official said Monday.

Yahoo News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050912/ap_on_re_us/katrina_bodies)

...but since they didn't 'officially' die because of Hurricane Katrina will they be counted by the coroner?

[boutons]

September 12, 2005

Dozens Found Dead at New Orleans Hospital

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 9:41 p.m. ET

NEW ORLEANS (AP) -- The bodies of more than 40 mostly elderly patients were found in a flooded-out hospital in the biggest known cluster of corpses to be discovered so far in hurricane-ravaged New Orleans.

The exact circumstances under which they died were unclear, with at least one hospital official saying Monday that some of the patients had died before the storm, while the others succumbed to causes unrelated to Katrina.

The announcement, which raises Louisiana's official death toll to nearly 280, came as President Bush got his first up-close look at the destruction.

''My impression of New Orleans is this: That there is a recovery on the way,'' Bush said in the shadow of a freeway overpass, destroyed cars littering the landscape behind him.

Despite the devastation and miles of still flooded streets, there were encouraging signs of recovery: Nearly two-thirds of southeastern Louisiana's water treatment plants were up and running. Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport planned to resume limited passenger service Tuesday. Forty-one of 174 permanent pumps were in operation, on pace to help drain the still half-flooded city by Oct. 8.

That doesn't mean a quick return to normalcy for residents or for business owners, who were let back in Monday to assess the damage and begin the slow process of starting over.

The Federal Emergency Management Agency expects to provide temporary housing for 200,000 hurricane victims for up to five years, most in Louisiana. The agency is planning to use trailer homes to create ''temporary cities,'' some with populations up to 25,000, said Brad Fair, head of the FEMA housing effort.

''This may not be quite on the scale of building the pyramids, but it's close,'' Fair said. He had no cost estimates.

FEMA's embattled director Mike Brown also announced Monday he would resign ''in the best interest of the agency and best interest of the president.'' Brown has been vilified for the slow and unfocused federal response to a hurricane, already considered the nation's costliest ever.

Insurance experts have doubled to at least $40 billion their estimate of insured losses caused by Katrina. Risk Management Solutions Inc. of Newark, Calif., put the total economic damage at more than $125 billion.

Lawmakers in Washington proposed some tax changes Monday to help the victims get back on their feet, such as letting them tap retirement accounts without penalty and encouraging donations of cash, food and school books.

Former New Orleans Mayor Marc Morial called for a compensation fund for the hurricane victims similar to the fund created for victims of the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

The death toll has also been rising as more bodies are recovered across the region.

At least 40 bodies were found Sunday at the 317-bed Memorial Medical Center, but the exact number was unclear. Bob Johannesen, a spokesman for the state Department of Health and Hospitals, said 45 patients had been found; hospital assistant administrator David Goodson said there were 44, plus three on the grounds.

Also unclear was exactly how the patients died.

Steven Campanini, a spokesman for the hospital's owner, Tenet Healthcare Corp., said some of the patients were dead before the storm arrived, and none of the deaths resulted from lack of food, water or electricity to power medical equipment. He said many were seriously ill.

Goodson said patients died while waiting to be evacuated over the four days after the hurricane hit, as temperatures inside the hospital reached 106 degrees. ''I would suggest that that had a lot to do with'' the deaths, he said of the heat.

Family members and nurses were ''literally standing over the patients, fanning them,'' he said.

Police Chief Eddie Compass declined to answer any questions about the bodies, including whether officers received any calls for help from those inside the hospital after it was evacuated.

Dr. Jeffrey Kochan, a Philadelphia radiologist volunteering in New Orleans, said members of the team that recovered the bodies from the hospital in the city's Uptown section told him they found 36 corpses floating on the first floor.

''These guys were just venting. They need to talk,'' he said. ''They're seeing things no human being should have to see.''

Bush, in his third visit to New Orleans since the storm, made his first foray to the streets Monday and toured the city for 45 minutes aboard the back of a truck, forcing him at times to duck to avoid low-hanging electrical wires and branches.

He disputed suggestions that the government responded sluggishly because the victims were mostly poor and black.

''The storm didn't discriminate and neither will the recovery effort,'' the president said. ''When those Coast Guard choppers, many of whom were first on the scene, were pulling people off roofs, they didn't check the color of a person's skin.''

In New Orleans' central business district -- which includes oil and gas companies, hotels, restaurants, banks and brokerages -- business owners were issued passes into the city to retrieve vital records or equipment, such as computers.

Among the businessmen allowed back into New Orleans on Monday was Terry Cockerham, owner of Service Glass, which installs windows at businesses downtown. He has been working out of his house because his business was destroyed by looters and flooding.

''This is about the most work I've ever had,'' he said. ''We'll work seven days a week until we get this job finished. I don't want to get rich. I just want to get everything back right.''

In the French Quarter, Nick Ditta was at Mango Mango, the bar he manages on Bourbon Street, searching for time cards. ''It's a mess man. There is no doubt about it,'' Ditta said. ''But our people are going to get paid. That's all I'm worried about.''

New Orleans Metropolitan Convention & Visitors Bureau president J. Stephen Perry said Katrina cost the city about 100 to 200 major conventions. But he expected the tourism industry to be among the first to bounce back, since the French Quarter and many hotels suffered little damage.

''The really positive thing long-term is, the core of our infrastructure of the $5 billion to $8 billion tourism industry remained intact,'' Perry said. ''As odd as it may sound right now, we are optimistic that this recovery is not only going to happen, its going to happen well and we're going to have a great city going again.''

[ChumpDumper]

Quit wringing your hands.

[Useruser666]

September 12, 2005

Dozens Found Dead at New Orleans Hospital

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 9:41 p.m. ET

NEW ORLEANS (AP) -- The bodies of more than 40 mostly elderly patients were found in a flooded-out hospital in the biggest known cluster of corpses to be discovered so far in hurricane-ravaged New Orleans.

The exact circumstances under which they died were unclear, with at least one hospital official saying Monday that some of the patients had died before the storm, while the others succumbed to causes unrelated to Katrina.

The announcement, which raises Louisiana's official death toll to nearly 280, came as President Bush got his first up-close look at the destruction.

''My impression of New Orleans is this: That there is a recovery on the way,'' Bush said in the shadow of a freeway overpass, destroyed cars littering the landscape behind him.

Despite the devastation and miles of still flooded streets, there were encouraging signs of recovery: Nearly two-thirds of southeastern Louisiana's water treatment plants were up and running. Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport planned to resume limited passenger service Tuesday. Forty-one of 174 permanent pumps were in operation, on pace to help drain the still half-flooded city by Oct. 8.

That doesn't mean a quick return to normalcy for residents or for business owners, who were let back in Monday to assess the damage and begin the slow process of starting over.

The Federal Emergency Management Agency expects to provide temporary housing for 200,000 hurricane victims for up to five years, most in Louisiana. The agency is planning to use trailer homes to create ''temporary cities,'' some with populations up to 25,000, said Brad Fair, head of the FEMA housing effort.

''This may not be quite on the scale of building the pyramids, but it's close,'' Fair said. He had no cost estimates.

FEMA's embattled director Mike Brown also announced Monday he would resign ''in the best interest of the agency and best interest of the president.'' Brown has been vilified for the slow and unfocused federal response to a hurricane, already considered the nation's costliest ever.

Insurance experts have doubled to at least $40 billion their estimate of insured losses caused by Katrina. Risk Management Solutions Inc. of Newark, Calif., put the total economic damage at more than $125 billion.

Lawmakers in Washington proposed some tax changes Monday to help the victims get back on their feet, such as letting them tap retirement accounts without penalty and encouraging donations of cash, food and school books.

Former New Orleans Mayor Marc Morial called for a compensation fund for the hurricane victims similar to the fund created for victims of the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

The death toll has also been rising as more bodies are recovered across the region.

At least 40 bodies were found Sunday at the 317-bed Memorial Medical Center, but the exact number was unclear. Bob Johannesen, a spokesman for the state Department of Health and Hospitals, said 45 patients had been found; hospital assistant administrator David Goodson said there were 44, plus three on the grounds.

Also unclear was exactly how the patients died.

Steven Campanini, a spokesman for the hospital's owner, Tenet Healthcare Corp., said some of the patients were dead before the storm arrived, and none of the deaths resulted from lack of food, water or electricity to power medical equipment. He said many were seriously ill.

Goodson said patients died while waiting to be evacuated over the four days after the hurricane hit, as temperatures inside the hospital reached 106 degrees. ''I would suggest that that had a lot to do with'' the deaths, he said of the heat.

Family members and nurses were ''literally standing over the patients, fanning them,'' he said.

Police Chief Eddie Compass declined to answer any questions about the bodies, including whether officers received any calls for help from those inside the hospital after it was evacuated.[/B]

Dr. Jeffrey Kochan, a Philadelphia radiologist volunteering in New Orleans, said members of the team that recovered the bodies from the hospital in the city's Uptown section told him they found 36 corpses floating on the first floor.

''These guys were just venting. They need to talk,'' he said. ''They're seeing things no human being should have to see.''

Bush, in his third visit to New Orleans since the storm, made his first foray to the streets Monday and toured the city for 45 minutes aboard the back of a truck, forcing him at times to duck to avoid low-hanging electrical wires and branches.

He disputed suggestions that the government responded sluggishly because the victims were mostly poor and black.

''The storm didn't discriminate and neither will the recovery effort,'' the president said. ''When those Coast Guard choppers, many of whom were first on the scene, were pulling people off roofs, they didn't check the color of a person's skin.''

In New Orleans' central business district -- which includes oil and gas companies, hotels, restaurants, banks and brokerages -- business owners were issued passes into the city to retrieve vital records or equipment, such as computers.

Among the businessmen allowed back into New Orleans on Monday was Terry Cockerham, owner of Service Glass, which installs windows at businesses downtown. He has been working out of his house because his business was destroyed by looters and flooding.

''This is about the most work I've ever had,'' he said. ''We'll work seven days a week until we get this job finished. I don't want to get rich. I just want to get everything back right.''

In the French Quarter, Nick Ditta was at Mango Mango, the bar he manages on Bourbon Street, searching for time cards. ''It's a mess man. There is no doubt about it,'' Ditta said. ''But our people are going to get paid. That's all I'm worried about.''

New Orleans Metropolitan Convention & Visitors Bureau president J. Stephen Perry said Katrina cost the city about 100 to 200 major conventions. But he expected the tourism industry to be among the first to bounce back, since the French Quarter and many hotels suffered little damage.

''The really positive thing long-term is, the core of our infrastructure of the $5 billion to $8 billion tourism industry remained intact,'' Perry said. ''As odd as it may sound right now, we are optimistic that this recovery is not only going to happen, its going to happen well and we're going to have a great city going again.''

[Notorious H.O.P.]

Dan, the hospitals have emergency genreators. They also have fuel to power those generators. How stupid would it be to have a hospital that when the power went out, everyone died?

Hospitals do have emergency generators but how much fuel do you keep on hand for them? The plans regarding emergency power are for generator usage during a temporary power loss. They don't take into account what happens when you are without power for several days.

If they needed to run longer, I'm sure they would normally get a fueling truck to refill their tanks but that can't happen if the gas stations and trucks are underwater.

There were stories of at least one hospital with generators that were threatened by flooding (one had their generator on the second floor) and reports of hospitals that were near exhausting or having exhausted their fuel supply.

I'm not saying the story is true and I'm not saying it's not but I just wanted to bring to light the fact that total power loss, including emergency power loss, was a definite concern for hospitals.