So if Danny's gone, the contingency plan is ?????

[tbear280]

So he is replaceable? So why doesn't every team have a 3 and D guy? Who is the answer? I know it isn't Marco or Manu? somebody please answer this question for me because I'm baffled....

[jeebus]

if we can get him for the minimum, why not?

[Knoxxx]

To make bad threads until we feel better.

[montgod]

Bowen will unretire and Sato will return as well with his 7ft wingspan. Whoop there it is! lol!

[TD 21]

There's no way to replace Green. The best they can do, is probably Bazemore. If the Hawks re-sign Carroll, then between him, Korver, Hardaway and Sefolosha on the wings, they'll have no path to a rotation spot for Bazemore. He only makes $2M for 1 more season, so they could just keep him, but they might be open to dumping him, for Williams' expiring contract.

[tbear280]

Product of the system or not, there is no replacement for him on the team currently? I'm just saying if they let him go who's the answer?

[tbear280]

What about Aminu from the kings? Probably the same amount of $$$ Green would cost, right?

[BatManu20]

Danny's only gone if we get Aldridge, which is far from a given.


However, if LMA does choose us, it'll obviously leave a huge whole to fill at the 2, one that would likely be filled by a cheap FA that will inevitably leave a big drop off in production.

[tbear280]

True. The biggest free agents we've ever landed were Derek Anderson and Brent Barry!

[NASpurs]

We're Fucked from Blow It Up University seems like a good candidate.

[montgod]

True. The biggest free agents we've ever landed were Derek Anderson and Brent Barry!

Finley was a highly contested one that was won by Spurs. Horry, Dominique, Avery, and Bowen were lesser signings that turned out pretty well (except for Dominique).

[tbear280]

and he was 30 something and not in his prime. What you would call a veteran, not a highly sought after free agent.

[Spur|n|Austin]

True. The biggest free agents we've ever landed were Derek Anderson and Brent Barry!

http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/image_pictures/0070/0188/finley_000_crop_340x234.jpg

[ducks]

Sign jr smith to max:wow

[tbear280]

Ouch

[Embedded]

We're just 1 year away from winning it all, and a miraculous 3 from winning it all the previous year. Green is not going anywhere, there's been this LMA talk, but that's all, talk, LMA coming here doesn't guarantee a championship. Danny Green holds an NBA Finals record for 3 pointers. He is a great wing defender. If Tony Parker and Tiago Splitter weren't injured at the wrong time last year we might have gone to the Finals again. I for one am not all for blowing up the team just to get LaMarcus, we don't know how he would work in our system, and if he can handle coach Popovich up his ass like everybody else. I haven't heard Spurs talking about LMA, just the press.

[DrSteffo]

RJ....

[raybies]

The answer might actually be Reggie Williams. Seriously. He already knows the system and he can shoot the 3. He's no where near the perimeter defender Green is, but if he can play within a team concept it might work. Looking at the free agents for SG, it's slim pickens, and at our price range no less. I didn't watch enough of him to see how well his defense is, so if anyone cares to elaborate, please do. If we sign Aldridge, all we need is someone to space the floor. We don't need a closer in this scenario, because Ginobili will most likely be signing. Also, the Spurs could make a minor deal as mentioned above. Bazemore is a good example.

We might have to dig up some talent from overseas, the summer league, or even the D-League.

[montgod]

and he was 30 something and not in his prime. What you would call a veteran, not a highly sought after free agent.

32 and yeah... at the end of his career but helped Spurs win 1 more title. Diaw was a nice signing as well.

At this point, the trend is the Spurs win when a star FA doesn't sign. Now that's a cool list (off the top of my head): Grant Hill, Malone, Granger, Kidd, C. Butler, etc.

I still think LMA would be a good signing though w/the big 3 getting closer and beyond retirement age.

[Chinook]

There are guys I'd take a flier Alan Anderson for the room exception or Jamaal Franklin. I actually think McDaniels will be easy to pry away, and I'm sure there are guys in Philly who could be had at a reasonable price. There are prospects at the two for sure. But bona fide starters are not any cheaper than Danny is, and with Manu either being gone or severely mitigated, the Spurs simply cannot afford to lose him.

[montgod]

The answer might actually be Reggie Williams. Seriously. He already knows the system and he can shoot the 3. He's no where near the perimeter defender Green is, but if he can play within a team concept it might work. Looking at the free agents for SG, it's slim pickens, and at our price range no less. I didn't watch enough of him to see how well his defense is, so if anyone cares to elaborate, please do. If we sign Aldridge, all we need is someone to space the floor. We don't need a closer in this scenario, because Ginobili will most likely be signing. Also, the Spurs could make a minor deal as mentioned above. Bazemore is a good example.

We might have to dig up some talent from overseas, the summer league, or even the D-League.

I don't see Spurs seeing RWilliams as a full time starter, but I could be wrong.


There are guys I'd take a flier Alan Anderson for the room exception or Jamaal Franklin. I actually think McDaniels will be easy to pry away, and I'm sure there are guys in Philly who could be had at a reasonable price. There are prospects at the two for sure. But bona fide starters are not any cheaper than Danny is, and with Manu either being gone or severely mitigated, the Spurs simply cannot afford to lose him.

I would love to bring McDaniels in via trade, but if we inquire, I would think Hou would say no just because Spurs asked. Would be a perfect replacement, work on his 3 and he already has his defensive game.

[Steve-O-Matic]

The answer might actually be Reggie Williams. Seriously.
The most patently absurd 493'rd post in SpursTalk history.

[raybies]

Keith Bogans... Ime Udoka...

[sananspursfan21]

How many redundant threads is this now? Good grief

[Chinook]

I would love to bring McDaniels in via trade, but if we inquire, I would think Hou would say no just because Spurs asked. Would be a perfect replacement, work on his 3 and he already has his defensive game.

McDaniels is a 1-year RFA. That means the Rockets have to use an exception or cap space to re-sign him. They're in a similar position with him as the Spurs are with Green, except the salary threshold is much smaller. $8M/3 with the final year being a team option/non-guaranteed will get it done easily.

[tmtcsc]

Please stop making Danny F'ing Green irreplaceable. These threads, like his upcoming salary, over-value what he does. Has everyone forgotten that Green is prone to bone-headed mistakes on D? That he is not a very smart player? And when was the last time anyone had confidence that he could actually drive to the basket?

Green is a good defender and a good three point shooter (when wide open). The Spurs can improve with a different 2 guard or at least get similar effectiveness from the position.

[December Romo]

You should probably worry about your woman being replaceable, as I have been coating the walls of her throat with my testicular paint for quite some time now.

[ducks]

You should probably worry about your woman being replaceable, as I have been coating the walls of her throat with my testicular paint for quite some time now.

grow up

[Chinook]

Please stop making Danny F'ing Green irreplaceable. These threads, like his upcoming salary, over-value what he does. Has everyone forgotten that Green is prone to bone-headed mistakes on D? That he is not a very smart player? And when was the last time anyone had confidence that he could actually drive to the basket?

Green is a good defender and a good three point shooter (when wide open). The Spurs can improve with a different 2 guard or at least get similar effectiveness from the position.

So much wrong in this post. There's a reason why people expect him to make bank this off-season, and it's not because he's a media darling. His own coach won't even go to bat for him publicly, and he can't get more than a handful of all-defense votes despite putting up elite metrics.

[TXstbobcat]

Verde will not stay with the Spurs. This his his last chance for a big payday and he will take the money and run.

[December Romo]

grow up
This coming from a guy who can't put a complete fucking sentence together without copy/paste. Go suck the skin off of Parker's french fry you shit smearing retard.

[tmtcsc]

His own coach won't even go to bat for him publicly, and he can't get more than a handful of all-defense votes despite putting up elite metrics.

Why do you think that is?

[tbear280]

Don't know a lot about McDaniels, speak on him.

[NASpurs]

This coming from a guy who can't put a complete fucking sentence together without copy/paste. Go suck the skin off of Parker's french fry you shit smearing retard.

:lmao

[Mugen]

Please stop making Danny F'ing Green irreplaceable. These threads, like his upcoming salary, over-value what he does. Has everyone forgotten that Green is prone to bone-headed mistakes on D? That he is not a very smart player? And when was the last time anyone had confidence that he could actually drive to the basket?

Green is a good defender and a good three point shooter (when wide open). The Spurs can improve with a different 2 guard or at least get similar effectiveness from the position.

:lol the best 3 and D player in the league still undervalued by fat Spurs fans tbh

[tmtcsc]

Green is a streaky shooter who benefits from the Spurs' system. Take away his three and he's worthless on the offensive end. He's just way too 1-dimensional. His best asset is his defense imo.

[timtonymanu]

Please stop making Danny F'ing Green irreplaceable. These threads, like his upcoming salary, over-value what he does. Has everyone forgotten that Green is prone to bone-headed mistakes on D? That he is not a very smart player? And when was the last time anyone had confidence that he could actually drive to the basket?

Green is a good defender and a good three point shooter (when wide open). The Spurs can improve with a different 2 guard or at least get similar effectiveness from the position.

Um, really? Name a SG in this league that can shut down the best PGs in this league while shooting over 40% from 3 in the playoffs. smh.

[timtonymanu]

:lol the best 3 and D player in the league still undervalued by fat Spurs fans tbh

fat Spurs fans that think the SG position needs to be a creator or efficient scorer.

The only good thing if Green leaves is watching these same dumbasses cry while our backcourt filled by Enrique and some other scrub get torched continuously while Leonard carries all the defensive load.

[Agloco]

Green is a good defender and a good three point shooter (when wide open). The Spurs can improve with a different 2 guard or at least get similar effectiveness from the position.

I keep seeing these posts but no names. Please list who would do this for us in The upcoming season

[tmtcsc]

:lol the best 3 and D player in the league still undervalued by fat Spurs fans tbh

:lol That's hilarious. You do realize you can replace that cheap Green jersey you bought on the side of the road right? I'm sure Wal-Mart might even have a better selection for you.

[tmtcsc]

I keep seeing these posts but no names. Please list who would do this for us in The upcoming season

Danny Green wasn't Danny Green until he came to the Spurs. His replacement is out there and is most likely a smarter player. Who is it? I don't know but I trust the FO will find someone.

Bruce Bowen was the Spurs' defensive ace before Green. Then came Green, then came Leonard. The Spurs offense will be different with an Aldridge. With a better inside scoring presence, they won't have to rely on the 3 as much. Finding a good perimeter defender may be difficult but not impossible. It's all about effort and smarts.

[NASpurs]

Danny Green wasn't Danny Green until he came to the Spurs. His replacement is out there and is most likely a smarter player. Who is it? I don't know but I trust the FO will find someone.

We were using Keith Fucking Bogans before Danny Green made his mark :lmao wtf are you talking about

[ducks]

This coming from a guy who can't put a complete fucking sentence together without copy/paste. Go suck the skin off of Parker's french fry you shit smearing retard.

this is coming from a guy who does not even know the guys mom is alive or dead
that he was suppose to have sex with last night

[itzsoweezee]

It would be crazy for the spurs to keep Splitter over Danny. Between the two, green is clearly less replaceable.

[Mugen]

Great points. Keith Bogans and Roger Mason Jr. were nobodies before they came to the Spurs system and equaled what Danny has done....

[timtonymanu]

Green is what he is. He makes stupid mistakes, but so does Manu. Should we have traded him early in his career? He's also never gonna be a creator or scorer. The Spurs don't need that out of their SG position. They already have enough touches from Duncan, Leonard, Parker, and Aldridge (if he joins). Green doesn't need that kind of role. Just to hit his 3's, which is still highly efficient compared to other 3 point shooters, but of course Spurs fans only focus on him when he misses.

Green is irreplaceable because of his defense (especially against PGs). Do we need to recall how PGs would torch the Spurs after Bruce left? I don't think you can find a lot players who can also shoot nearly 50% from 3s in the playoffs. Green will make his mistakes but he's obviously an impactful player. smh. Between him and Tiago, it's amazing how Spurs fans hate on these two guys.

The only guys that can replace him are a player asking for 15 million (Wes Matthews, not even worth it), DeMarre Carroll or Khris Middleton. None of those guys are coming to the Spurs at a cheaper price than Green.

[palangi]

The answer might actually be Reggie Williams. Seriously. He already knows the system and he can shoot the 3. He's no where near the perimeter defender Green is, but if he can play within a team concept it might work. Looking at the free agents for SG, it's slim pickens, and at our price range no less. I didn't watch enough of him to see how well his defense is, so if anyone cares to elaborate, please do. If we sign Aldridge, all we need is someone to space the floor. We don't need a closer in this scenario, because Ginobili will most likely be signing. Also, the Spurs could make a minor deal as mentioned above. Bazemore is a good example.

We might have to dig up some talent from overseas, the summer league, or even the D-League.

There are two interesting young talents on the summer roster to keep an eye on as well treveon Graham and wayne blackshear. Both long athletic 6'5"-6'6" guys.

[Chinook]

Why do you think that is?

Because he's underrated. Because the media wants to believe he's a product of the System, which is a mythical concept they've made up in their heads to explain the Spurs' sustained success (because it can't be that the Spurs just have really good players). Teams are using analytics nowadays, and they can see that Green is elite on both sides of the ball. That's why the media believes teams are willing to open their checkbooks for him. People who run teams for a living KNOW Green's in the top quarter of starting two-guards. And they contract they propose he'll get will be a bargain.

We're in a world where Monta Ellis will get $13-15 Million a year, and he's not a good of a player as Danny is.

[palangi]

We were using Keith Fucking Bogans before Danny Green made his mark :lmao wtf are you talking about

And Danny green bombed out in Cleveland before coming back to SA.

[timtonymanu]

And Danny green bombed out in Cleveland before coming back to SA.

Danny Green is going to have an NBA career, regardless of where he goes. Sure, the Spurs system got him here, but he will easily make any team contending for a title a better team. What did Bogans and RMJ do after they left the Spurs? Nothing.

[tmtcsc]

Green doesn't need that kind of role. Just to hit his 3's, which is still highly efficient compared to other 3 point shooters, but of course Spurs fans only focus on him when he misses.

How much do you want to pay for that?



Green is irreplaceable because of his defense (especially against PGs). Do we need to recall how PGs would torch the Spurs after Bruce left?

I recall Chris Paul and Monta Ellis torching the shit out of the Spurs. Where was Danny then?

Look, he's a good player but he's far from irreplaceable. Give me an All Star PF over Green any day.

The comparison to Manu was so wrong, I'm not sure where to start.

[SilverSpur]

He will resign for less than market value to stay with Spurs, two yr contract spurs will make it up to him when salary cap jumps up to 108 mil in three years and when Duncan , Manu retire.

[palangi]

Danny Green is going to have an NBA career, regardless of where he goes. Sure, the Spurs system got him here, but he will easily make any team contending for a title a better team. What did Bogans and RMJ do after they left the Spurs? Nothing.

There is no guarantee green produces away from SA. He has shown to fail already. Now I don't think he will be that bad away. But he won't be the same though either. Green has a lot of deficiencies in his game that pop covers up for him. He better make sure he goes to another coach who can do the same. Our else he could look like JR Smith in the finals.

[NASpurs]

And Danny green bombed out in Cleveland before coming back to SA.

He worked his ass off trying to prove to Pop and the Spurs that he was the guy for the position. Thinking it was the system that made Danny Green is ludicrous :lol

[palangi]

How much do you want to pay for that?



I recall Chris Paul and Monta Ellis torching the shit out of the Spurs. Where was Danny then?

Look, he's a good player but he's far from irreplaceable. Give me an All Star PF over Green any day.

The comparison to Manu was so wrong, I'm not sure where to start.

Agree completely. It's like some here are afraid of change. So much that we overrate players to make us feel better.

[BillMc]

To make bad threads until we feel better.

Ah the truth....:toast

[Vic Petro]

If the Spurs lose Green they lose the matchup advantage with Golden State.

[palangi]

He worked his ass off trying to prove to Pop and the Spurs that he was the guy for the position. Thinking it was the system that made Danny Green is ludicrous :lol

?

[timtonymanu]

How much do you want to pay for that?

10 - 11 million, fairly reasonable, especially if you look at the demand for role players today.


I recall Chris Paul and Monta Ellis torching the shit out of the Spurs. Where was Danny then?

Look, he's a good player but he's far from irreplaceable. Give me an All Star PF over Green any day.

The comparison to Manu was so wrong, I'm not sure where to start.

When Green was allowed to guard Paul and Ellis, he shut them down. I'm not good at bringing up analytics (Chinook or others are better), but I remember watching the games and seeing Green shut down both. And no, until there's an SG in this league who can guard opposing PGs the way Green does, he isn't irreplacable. You surely aren't going to find a player who can get as hot as DG in the Spurs.

And I only mentioned Manu because your criticism against Green is that he makes mistakes. I'm saying so did Manu, but we looked past that because he possessed other good skills. The same should apply to Danny. Also I don't think Green has to leave for Aldridge to come in. Still, since it's looking like Tiago is going to be traded, we really need Danny's defense since Aldridge < Tiago on defense. I've already mentioned there are other few other players that can replace Green and all are demanding or even more a bigger contract than Green. (15 million for Wes Matthews, for example).

[tmtcsc]

Danny Green is going to have an NBA career, regardless of where he goes. Sure, the Spurs system got him here, but he will easily make any team contending for a title a better team. What did Bogans and RMJ do after they left the Spurs? Nothing.

Why is your memory limited to Bogans and Jefferson? Are you forgetting Michael Finley and Brent Barry? The Spurs won titles with those guys before Danny came around. Things change, its time to move on. Green will get paid, and in my opinion, exposed. He'll be expected to do more for the money he gets paid and won't be able to deliver. He's got a good thing going over here. But this is a business and he should take the $$.

[timtonymanu]

There is no guarantee green produces away from SA. He has shown to fail already. Now I don't think he will be that bad away. But he won't be the same though either. Green has a lot of deficiencies in his game that pop covers up for him. He better make sure he goes to another coach who can do the same. Our else he could look like JR Smith in the finals.

Again, Spurs fans thinking only Pop's system lets players look good. :lol

Comparing him to JR Smith? Good god, some of you retarded.

[NASpurs]

?

????

What point were you trying to make? That he bombed out of the Cavs because they didn't have the Spurs system?

[timtonymanu]

Why is your memory limited to Bogans and Jefferson? Are you forgetting Michael Finley and Brent Barry? The Spurs won titles with those guys before Danny came around. Things change, its time to move on. Green will get paid, and in my opinion, exposed. He'll be expected to do more for the money he gets paid and won't be able to deliver. He's got a good thing going over here. But this is a business and he should take the $$.

They also had a prime Duncan and Manu at the time. Don't even compare the two. Basketball was a different game back in 2007 and earlier.

Put Finley and Barry in Green's role today and the Spurs are looking at a 2nd round exit at best.

[NASpurs]

Why is your memory limited to Bogans and Jefferson? Are you forgetting Michael Finley and Brent Barry? The Spurs won titles with those guys before Danny came around. Things change, its time to move on. Green will get paid, and in my opinion, exposed. He'll be expected to do more for the money he gets paid and won't be able to deliver. He's got a good thing going over here. But this is a business and he should take the $$.

It helps to forget that the Spurs won with prime Duncan, Manu and Parker... it covers a lot of deficiencies.

[palangi]

Again, Spurs fans thinking only Pop's system lets players look good. :lol

Comparing him to JR Smith? Good god, some of you retarded.

Sty putting words in others mouth. I would say pop system has made green look better. As by proof of his struggles in Cleveland and success here.

[tmtcsc]

When Green was allowed to guard Paul and Ellis, he shut them down. I'm not good at bringing up analytics (Chinook or others are better), but I remember watching the games and seeing Green shut down both. And no, until there's an SG in this league who can guard opposing PGs the way Green does, he isn't irreplacable. You surely aren't going to find a player who can get as hot as DG in the Spurs.

And I only mentioned Manu because your criticism against Green is that he makes mistakes. I'm saying so did Manu, but we looked past that because he possessed other good skills. The same should apply to Danny. Also I don't think Green has to leave for Aldridge to come in. Still, since it's looking like Tiago is going to be traded, we really need Danny's defense since Aldridge < Tiago on defense. I've already mentioned there are other few other players that can replace Green and all are demanding or even more a bigger contract than Green. (15 million for Wes Matthews, for example).

Like Bruce Bowen once said, early in Manu's career, his mistakes were for all the right reasons (with the exception of the foul on Dirk). Also, he usually made up for those mistakes. We are way past those days now but when Manu was younger he was an X factor and a game changer. The guy is a no-brainer Hall of Famer and one of the greatest Spurs who ever suited up. I think the comparison is just too far off with the mistakes. There were lots of reasons to live with "because he's Manu Ginobili" than there are to forgive Danny Green.

Look what Gary Neal did when he came to the Spurs. He was no where near as good as Danny as far as Defense is concerned but he was every bit the shooter and a much better scorer.

[therealtruth]

It would be crazy for the spurs to keep Splitter over Danny. Between the two, green is clearly less replaceable.

I don't think either guy is replaceable. They won because those guys can single guard guys we need to beat to win it all. How well did LA guard Zbo when he was getting swept but Splitter can. In fact Splitter did the same to LA last year. Unless the advantage we gain with LA on offense can make up that lost defensive efficiency I don't see how that makes them better. We're going back to those Spurs teams that could score but couldn't stop anybody in '09-'11.

[tmtcsc]

They also had a prime Duncan and Manu at the time. Don't even compare the two. Basketball was a different game back in 2007 and earlier.

Put Finley and Barry in Green's role today and the Spurs are looking at a 2nd round exit at best.

WTH are you talking about? Keith Bogans played SF for the Spurs in 2009. Were Duncan, Ginobili and Parker not in their primes 6 years ago?

[therealtruth]

Like Bruce Bowen once said, early in Manu's career, his mistakes were for all the right reasons (with the exception of the foul on Dirk). Also, he usually made up for those mistakes. We are way past those days now but when Manu was younger he was an X factor and a game changer. The guy is a no-brainer Hall of Famer and one of the greatest Spurs who ever suited up. I think the comparison is just too far off with the mistakes. There were lots of reasons to live with "because he's Manu Ginobili" than there are to forgive Danny Green.

Look what Gary Neal did when he came to the Spurs. He was no where near as good as Danny as far as Defense is concerned but he was every bit the shooter and a much better scorer.

Manu always made up for his mistakes. You could accept the bad because the good was so much better. He did whatever it took to win. Getting the rebound, pass, assist, or steal. Now that he can't make up for the mistakes he has to adjust to playing more mistake free.

[timtonymanu]

WTH are you talking about? Keith Bogans played SF for the Spurs in 2009. Were Duncan, Ginobili and Parker not in their primes 6 years ago?

Did the Spurs win a championship with Keith Bogans in their lineup? No.

Also, I was clearly talking about Finley and Barry. And from 2007 and earlier. Don't know WTF you are bringing up 2009 for.

[Chinook]

And Danny green bombed out in Cleveland before coming back to SA.

Green's per-36 numbers in Cleveland:

12.5 points, 5.3 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 1.9 steals, 0.9 blocks

In SA:

14.1 points, 4.9 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 1.5 steals, 1.1 blocks

In college:

17.0 points, 8.5 rebounds, 4.9 assists

In the d-league:

20.1 points, 7.1 rebounds, 2.5 assists, 1.6 steals, 1.0 blocks

Seems to me like Green was pretty much Green in Cleveland and pretty much anywhere he's been. The issue in Cleveland is that. couldn't get playing time. I wonder if playing behind the best player in the world had anything to do with that, or having Brown and Scott as coaches. Acting like he all of the sudden became a different player in SA reeks of ignorance of the past. Danny's been a great player everywhere he played, and him getting let go by what was the most dysfunctional team in the league hardly tarnishes that fact.

[tmtcsc]

I don't think either guy is replaceable. They won because those guys can single guard guys we need to beat to win it all. How well did LA guard Zbo when he was getting swept but Splitter can. In fact Splitter did the same to LA last year. Unless the advantage we gain with LA on offense can make up that lost defensive efficiency I don't see how that makes them better. We're going back to those Spurs teams that could score but couldn't stop anybody in '09-'11.

If Splitter could stay healthy we probably aren't having this conversation. He's too injury prone and his injuries are bizarre. I have a feeling the FO is tired of not knowing what you are going to get from him. I know I am. No one is saying that he isn't important to the Spurs, he's just not reliable and has a low tolerance for pain.

[timtonymanu]

Like Bruce Bowen once said, early in Manu's career, his mistakes were for all the right reasons (with the exception of the foul on Dirk). Also, he usually made up for those mistakes. We are way past those days now but when Manu was younger he was an X factor and a game changer. The guy is a no-brainer Hall of Famer and one of the greatest Spurs who ever suited up. I think the comparison is just too far off with the mistakes. There were lots of reasons to live with "because he's Manu Ginobili" than there are to forgive Danny Green.

Look what Gary Neal did when he came to the Spurs. He was no where near as good as Danny as far as Defense is concerned but he was every bit the shooter and a much better scorer.

We'll agree to disagree on DG. I just think Spurs fans forget how bad the team was after Bruce left and before Danny/Kawhi came here. I don't think the Spurs can just find any good player and expect him to replace DG so easily and quickly, especially with how piss poor the perimeter defense is outside of Leonard and Green. It has to take a lot of good moves for the Spurs to be able to live without DG's production. I just don't think he's as replaceable as you think. That's one less player with valuable and elite defense, and also elite 3 point shooting (even though he's streaky).

[Chinook]

WTH are you talking about? Keith Bogans played SF for the Spurs in 2009. Were Duncan, Ginobili and Parker not in their primes 6 years ago?

No. Especially not Duncan. He was probably worse in 09-10 than he is now. Also Bogans played the two next to RJ. Finally, that only underscores the point that you can't just trot out crap at that position and expect success. Not only did the Spurs have terrible actual rotation players at that spot from 2007-2011, but they also had a long list of d-leaguers that they trotted through the back end of the roster trying to find a diamond in the rough. It was not easy at all for them to find a productive player at the two.

[palangi]

Green's per-36 numbers in Cleveland:

12.5 points, 5.3 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 1.9 steals, 0.9 blocks

In SA:

14.1 points, 4.9 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 1.5 steals, 1.1 blocks

In college:

17.0 points, 8.5 rebounds, 4.9 assists

In the d-league:

20.1 points, 7.1 rebounds, 2.5 assists, 1.6 steals, 1.0 blocks

Seems to me like Green was pretty much Green in Cleveland and pretty much anywhere he's been. The issue in Cleveland is that. couldn't get playing time. I wonder if playing behind the best player in the world had anything to do with that, or having Brown and Scott as coaches. Acting like he all of the sudden became a different player in SA reeks of ignorance of the past. Danny's been a great player everywhere he played, and him getting let go by what was the most dysfunctional team in the league hardly tarnishes that fact.

I don't think per tell the whole story. You could see he wasn't the same type of player.

[Agloco]

Danny Green wasn't Danny Green until he came to the Spurs. His replacement is out there and is most likely a smarter player. Who is it? I don't know but I trust the FO will find someone.

You're quite full of unknowns for someone whos adamant that Verde is replaceable. I'd hoped you at least had an idea of what that replacement looks like.

Even if your 'product of the system' theory is true, how long did it take Green to become Green once he got here? It takes at least a year to adjust to this system. That's a well known fact. We don't have the luxury of time to develop an unknown.

[tmtcsc]

They also had a prime Duncan and Manu at the time. Don't even compare the two. Basketball was a different game back in 2007 and earlier.

Put Finley and Barry in Green's role today and the Spurs are looking at a 2nd round exit at best.

How many Championships did the Spurs win with Danny Green playing SG? Was it any coincidence that Kawhi Leonard was the starting SF when he got his one and only ring? And to your earlier statement about Green shutting down Paul and Ellis....well, let me put in writing again for you to look at.

When Green was allowed to guard Paul and Ellis, he shut them down.

Do you want to take that back?

[timtonymanu]

How many Championships did the Spurs win with Danny Green playing SG? Was it any coincidence that Kawhi Leonard was the starting SF when he got his one and only ring? And to your earlier statement about Green shutting down Paul and Ellis....well, let me put in writing again for you to look at.

When Green was allowed to guard Paul and Ellis, he shut them down.

Do you want to take that back?

Green was just as essential in the title run. Why do people go all out in discrediting players to fit their argument? You just sound like a bitter Danny Green hater right now.

Yes, he did. Paul had a tough time scoring whenever Green had to guard him. I'm not good at drawing up analytics (Chinook is much better), but I watched the game and Green gave Paul fits whenever he guarded him. Same with Ellis. Pop just fucked around too much in the Clippers series with Green (it didn't help that Green's 3 point shot was costing his playing time).

[Chinook]

I don't think per tell the whole story. You could see he wasn't the same type of player.

Honestly, did you even watch a second of his play in Cleveland?

[palangi]

Honestly, did you even watch a second of his play in Cleveland?

Yes. The times he could get off the bench.

[Chinook]

How many Championships did the Spurs win with Danny Green playing SG? Was it any coincidence that Kawhi Leonard was the starting SF when he got his one and only ring? And to your earlier statement about Green shutting down Paul and Ellis....well, let me put in writing again for you to look at.

When Green was allowed to guard Paul and Ellis, he shut them down.

Do you want to take that back?

Green's started only a handful of games without Leonard. Kawhi's started virtually no games without Green. It's pointless trying to separate their impact on the team. They've won their only ring together. It's completely possible they'll win more rings together and that they'll never win a ring apart. None of that will have an bearing on whether one or the other is a good player.

[Chinook]

Yes. The times he could get off the bench.

Then how was he a different player? Because in college, he was pretty much the same player he is now, except his team's fans appreciated him. In the d-league, he did a lot more than he does now, including being a pretty consistent player above the rim.

[timtonymanu]

You're quite full of unknowns for someone whos adamant that Verde is replaceable. I'd hoped you at least had an idea of what that replacement looks like.

Even if your 'product of the system' theory is true, how long did it take Green to become Green once he got here? It takes at least a year to adjust to this system. That's a well known fact. We don't have the luxury of time to develop an unknown.

Not to mention, the player replacing him better know how to defend PGs and be an elite 3 point shooter. Otherwise, Leonard will carry all the defensive load (even moreso since Splitter is likely gone) and will be a less effective offensive player because of it. Some people just don't realize how much DG compliments him well.

[tmtcsc]

No. Especially not Duncan. He was probably worse in 09-10 than he is now. Also Bogans played the two next to RJ. Finally, that only underscores the point that you can't just trot out crap at that position and expect success. Not only did the Spurs have terrible actual rotation players at that spot from 2007-2011, but they also had a long list of d-leaguers that they trotted through the back end of the roster trying to find a diamond in the rough. It was not easy at all for them to find a productive player at the two.

Both Parker and Duncan were All-Stars in 2009. Bogans had plenty of minutes at the 3 with Finley at the 2.

[palangi]

Then how was he a different player? Because in college, he was pretty much the same player he is now, except his team's fans appreciated him. In the d-league, he did a lot more than he does now, including being a pretty consistent player above the rim.
The D league?

That's your proof?

[timtonymanu]

Green's started only a handful of games without Leonard. Kawhi's started virtually no games without Green. It's pointless trying to separate their impact on the team. They've won their only ring together. It's completely possible they'll win more rings together and that they'll never win a ring apart. None of that will have an bearing on whether one or the other is a good player.

Yep and I remember DG playing the best ball of his career when Leonard was out and he was still playing great defense as well. Some people just like to discredit others to fit their arguments. It's pointless to compare the two. Both compliment each other perfectly and we can only hope we get more seasons of them together.

[Chinook]

Some people just don't realize how much DG compliments him well.

Him and Parker when Tony's on. In 2013, those guys had like a psychic link. Tony always knew where Danny was going to be when he had to kick the ball out.

[Chinook]

The D league?

That's your proof?

You have no proof that you even saw him with the Cavs. I cited his college career where he was a glue guy for a championship team. Then he goes to a dysfunctional organization for a year, dominates in the d-league, arrives in SA where he gets on Pop's bad side, commits to showing Pop he can fit with the Spurs' culture, wrests the starting SG job from a first-rounder and a guy who'd already been in the system for a year and never looks back.

[Chinook]

Both Parker and Duncan were All-Stars in 2009. Bogans had plenty of minutes at the 3 with Finley at the 2.

Being an All-Star means nothing. Watching Tim then, it would be hard to believe he'd still be an All-Star --caliber player now. Parker was obviously in him prime. No argument there. Manu was coming off an injury by probably had his last truly great season in 09-10. Bogans might have seen some minutes at the three, but Jefferson was a fixture at the three.

[palangi]

You have no proof that you even saw him with the Cavs. I cited his college career where he was a glue guy for a championship team. Then he goes to a dysfunctional organization for a year, dominates in the d-league, arrives in SA where he gets on Pop's bad side, commits to showing Pop he can fit with the Spurs' culture, wrests the starting SG job from a first-rounder and a guy who'd already been in the system for a year and never looks back.
So is his 27% 3 point shooting in Cleveland the same?
Or maybe it is his 38% FG?
His 2 ppg?

Come on. The SA system has greatly helped him and continues to help him. Much like Gary Neil.

[timtonymanu]

Both Parker and Duncan were All-Stars in 2009. Bogans had plenty of minutes at the 3 with Finley at the 2.

Bogans wasn't on the team in 2009. They were experimenting with Bowen/Finley/Udoka/Mason that year. Udoka is another name that comes to mind. He was a scrub before the Spurs, during his time, and after. Thankfully his coaching job is better.

[DesignatedT]

Green is as good as his team in some sense. He is a big time player and a top defender in the league who continues to be underrated, that's true. But if Green elects to take money and go to a substandard situation, say Orlando or Detroit who have been rumored, don't be surprised to see him fall into obscurity. Guys like Ellis for example (since he was mentioned earlier) can still thrive in bad situations (Milwaukee) due to their ability to score off the dribble, create their own shot, etc. Danny thrives in good situations (as do most players) but it's 10x more important for Danny to be on a good team with good players for him to truly be able to showcase his skills and be truly effective. I could see Detroit or someone signing Green to all that money and the fans instantly bitching about why he gets paid so much because he isn't truly able to showcase his skills on a team with lesser talent.

[Chinook]

So is his 27% 3 point shooting in Cleveland the same?
Or maybe it is his 38% FG?
His 2 ppg?

Come on. The SA system has greatly helped him and continues to help him. Much like Gary Neil.

Lol, so he shoots worse on a dysfunctional team with a terrible offense, and that's your proof that he'd struggle anywhere else? Do you really think only the Spurs get open looks for their guys? The 2012 Knicks with all of their problems managed to do it. The Thunder manage to do it. The Suns, Karl Nuggets, current Cavs, Warriors, Hawks and damned near any team with either stars or a decent coach can do it. It's not like Pop is giving Danny lessons on how to shoot that he'll forget as soon as he leaves. The dude shot 42 percent from three his senior year in college. I'm pretty sure he knows how to shoot on his own.

[timtonymanu]

Green is as good as his team in some sense. He is a big time player and a top defender in the league who continues to be underrated, that's true. But if Green elects to take money and go to a substandard situation, say Orlando or Detroit who have been rumored, don't be surprised to see him fall into obscurity. Guys like Ellis for example (since he was mentioned earlier) can still thrive in bad situations (Milwaukee) due to their ability to score off the dribble, create their own shot, etc. Danny thrives in good situations (as do most players) but it's 10x more important for Danny to be on a good team with good players for him to truly be able to showcase his skills and be truly effective. I could see Detroit or someone signing Green to all that money and the fans instantly bitching about why he gets paid so much because he isn't truly able to showcase his skills on a team with lesser talent.

Yep, that's the best way to put it. Green doesn't make any sense on lottery teams that don't run an offense that allow him to thrive. However, a lot of posters seem to think that the Spurs are the only team that can do that. Put Green on Cleveland, Memphis, or Dallas and those teams are instantly better (comparing him to Gary Neal, which was done above, is ridiculous. Green is better overall player than Neal.) I also think some people don't realize how hard it will be to replace Green in the offseason. If it has to be done, it has to, but it's going to be a difficult process and possibly having to go through rejects like the Bogans/Masons/ 40 year old Finley types for a while before the Spurs are lucky enough to have a player like Green fall into their laps.

[RD2191]

is palangi the worst poster of all time? I'm beginning to question if he really even watches basketball. Maybe he's watching another sport and thinks it's basketball?

[timtonymanu]

is palangi the worst poster of all time? I'm beginning to question if he really even watches basketball. Maybe he's watching another sport and thinks it's basketball?

Probably an SASdynasty troll. Chinook gives legit stats and the rebuttal is FG% and PPG.

[tmtcsc]

Not to mention, the player replacing him better know how to defend PGs and be an elite 3 point shooter. Otherwise, Leonard will carry all the defensive load (even moreso since Splitter is likely gone) and will be a less effective offensive player because of it. Some people just don't realize how much DG compliments him well.

Pls stop with the shutting down opposing PG stuff. If that was his strength, he failed miserably. Just go back and look at what Chris Paul did to the Spurs in last year's playoffs and Ellis the year before that. Damian Lillard consistently torches the Spurs too.

The Spurs F.O. have a plan to get better and it may not include Green and Splitter. Are you in favor of bringing the team back as-is or sacrificing the future of the team by missing out on an All Star caliber Free Agent? Tim will be gone soon, Parker is on the down side of his career and Manu is on fumes. At some point you have to move on. Green absolutely benefited from playing with the Big 3 and Leonard. If he gets paid big money, it wont be here.

Tiago Splitter - when healthy, has been a fantastic player for the Spurs. I don't trust his health and I don't think the Spurs F.O. does either. I'm not saying he sucks, I'm not shitting on the guy at all. He just can't stay on the floor and that unpredictability is maddening.

[tmtcsc]

Bogans wasn't on the team in 2009. They were experimenting with Bowen/Finley/Udoka/Mason that year. Udoka is another name that comes to mind. He was a scrub before the Spurs, during his time, and after. Thankfully his coaching job is better.

C'mon man. http://nba-historical-teams.pointafter.com/l/117/2009-2010-San-Antonio-Spurs

[DesignatedT]

I just don't see a scenario where the Spurs willingly get rid of both Splitter and Green (two starters). Are the Spurs hesitant to give all that money to Green, sure they are and for good reason but they need to pony up and give him a long term deal. He's proved his worth and if you have to pick between Green and Splitter you take Green every day of the week in a league where perimeter defenders are of upmost importance.

[timtonymanu]

C'mon man. http://nba-historical-teams.pointafter.com/l/117/2009-2010-San-Antonio-Spurs

You were referring to 2009 where you said Parker and Duncan were all stars. Maybe you meant in play, instead of the all star team itself.

[Chinook]

Pls stop with the shutting down opposing PG stuff. If that was his strength, he failed miserably. Just go back and look at what Chris Paul did to the Spurs in last year's playoffs and Ellis the year before that. Damian Lillard consistently torches the Spurs too.

Yeah, that's the reason why I feel your evaluation is flawed. Paul's performance when Green was on him and when other players were on him was night and day except for Game Four I think. It was even more stark with Ellis. I think Monta scored two baskets on Green that whole series. The Spurs lost Game Six because Pop inexplicably switched Leonard on Ellis in the fourth. Monta scored most of his points in the closing minutes of that game. There's a reason why people won't "stop with the shutting down opposing PGs stuff", and it's because Green actually does do that better than another else in the league. And unlike Beverly, for example, he does it without getting into foul trouble.

[timtonymanu]

Pls stop with the shutting down opposing PG stuff. If that was his strength, he failed miserably. Just go back and look at what Chris Paul did to the Spurs in last year's playoffs and Ellis the year before that. Damian Lillard consistently torches the Spurs too.



If you go back and watch the games, you would see that Paul and Ellis did their damage against lesser defenders than DG. Any time Pop actually let Green guard those guys, they became less effective. I especially remember this in the Clippers series as many on here were calling for Pop's head any time he let Green guard other players than CP.

[DesignatedT]

Who knows what's going through Pops head at times. I know he likes to switched defenders on guys throughout the game. Green was on Paul the last possession of G7 though I believe. He knows how well he plays on smaller guards even if he doesn't decide to go to it all game for whatever reasons he has.

[Malik Hairston]

- Among wing players(3000+ poss or more, so excluding end of bench guys), there were only 5 of them with a DRAPM of 2+, Green being one of them..

Of those 5, Green was the only player to shoot 40%+ from 3-point range..

- Among all rotation wing players, Green was #6 in the NBA in ISO defense, and had the best 3-point % of anybody in the top percentile of the list..

- Only 6 perimeter players had a DBPM over 2, this year: Danny Green, Kawhi Leonard, Tony Allen, Nic Batum, Antetokoumpo and Russell Westbrook

- Only 1 player in the NBA(eligible, statistically, Pau Gasol and Zeller did it too on limited 3 attempts) shot 40% from 3 and had a DBPM over 2: Danny Green

- 6 players in the NBA averaged 1 BPG and 1 SPG last season: Demarcus Cousins, Anthony Davis, Draymond Green, Nerlens Noel, Josh Smith and Danny Green..only 1 of those guys is a wing player, and only 1 of those guys shot 40% from 3

- Danny Green was the 8th player in NBA history to average 1 BPG/SPG and >150 3s in a season

- Players in the NBA that had a VORP over 4, this year: Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Paul, Lebron, Anthony Davis, Lillard, Marc Gasol, DeAndre Jordan, Draymond Green, Jimmy Butler, Tim Duncan, Kawhi Leonard and Danny Green

Among those players, only Curry, Chris Paul and Danny Green shot 40% from 3:lol


Not sure in what universe that's replaceable with somebody on a lesser salary, tbh..only Kawhi and Duncan are more irreplaceable on this team..you can find a Parker on virtually every team in the NBA, Manu is tough to replicate but he's going to be on a minutes restriction, and while Splitter would be tough to replace, his injury history is troublesome..

[Chinook]

Who knows what's going through Pops head at times. I know he likes to switched defenders on guys throughout the game. Green was on Paul the last possession of G7 though I believe. He knows how well he plays on smaller guards even if he doesn't decide to go to it all game for whatever reasons he has.

Pop likes to rotate defenders as much as he can to keep the other guy guessing. And some nights, other players may be more effective. Like you had the Houston RS series where Game 2 Leonard was the most effective on Harden, Game 3 Joseph was the most effective and Game 4 Green.

But Green is historically the best guy the Spurs have to throw at Paul, though. If Pierce goes to LAC, the Spurs are going to have to be able to check three of Paul, Crawford, Lance and Truth at once. While Kawhi is going to do a good job on one and Parker is going to do a bad job on another, you want to be able to have that third guy covered.

[Chinook]

- Among wing players(3000+ poss or more, so excluding end of bench guys), there were only 5 of them with a DRAPM of 2+, Green being one of them..

Of those 5, Green was the only player to shoot 40%+ from 3-point range..

- Among all rotation wing players, Green was #6 in the NBA in ISO defense, and had the best 3-point % of anybody in the top percentile of the list..

- Only 6 perimeter players had a DBPM over 2, this year: Danny Green, Kawhi Leonard, Tony Allen, Nic Batum, Antetokoumpo and Russell Westbrook

- Only 1 player in the NBA(eligible, statistically, Pau Gasol and Zeller did it too on limited 3 attempts) shot 40% from 3 and had a DBPM over 2: Danny Green

- 6 players in the NBA averaged 1 BPG and 1 SPG last season: Demarcus Cousins, Anthony Davis, Draymond Green, Nerlens Noel, Josh Smith and Danny Green..only 1 of those guys is a wing player, and only 1 of those guys shot 40% from 3

- Danny Green was the 8th player in NBA history to average 1 BPG/SPG and >150 3s in a season

- Players in the NBA that had a VORP over 4, this year: Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Paul, Lebron, Anthony Davis, Lillard, Marc Gasol, DeAndre Jordan, Draymond Green, Jimmy Butler, Tim Duncan, Kawhi Leonard and Danny Green

Among those players, only Curry, Chris Paul and Danny Green shot 40% from 3:lol


Not sure in what universe that's replaceable with somebody on a lesser salary, tbh..only Kawhi and Duncan are more irreplaceable on this team..you can find a Parker on virtually every team in the NBA, Manu is tough to replicate but he's going to be on a minutes restriction, and while Splitter would be tough to replace, his injury history is troublesome..

I, I think we're done here.

[therealtruth]

How many Championships did the Spurs win with Danny Green playing SG? Was it any coincidence that Kawhi Leonard was the starting SF when he got his one and only ring? And to your earlier statement about Green shutting down Paul and Ellis....well, let me put in writing again for you to look at.

When Green was allowed to guard Paul and Ellis, he shut them down.

Do you want to take that back?

Kawhi definitely deserves as much credit for the improved defense but he can't do it by himself. We need at least 2 wing defenders we can drop on the top players and expect them to do a good job in single coverage. There's just a handful of players in the league like that and they're mostly on the all-defensive teams.


No. Especially not Duncan. He was probably worse in 09-10 than he is now. Also Bogans played the two next to RJ. Finally, that only underscores the point that you can't just trot out crap at that position and expect success. Not only did the Spurs have terrible actual rotation players at that spot from 2007-2011, but they also had a long list of d-leaguers that they trotted through the back end of the roster trying to find a diamond in the rough. It was not easy at all for them to find a productive player at the two.

People forget that TD did some real work to extend his career and elevate his play.


If Splitter could stay healthy we probably aren't having this conversation. He's too injury prone and his injuries are bizarre. I have a feeling the FO is tired of not knowing what you are going to get from him. I know I am. No one is saying that he isn't important to the Spurs, he's just not reliable and has a low tolerance for pain.

I agree Splitter's durability makes it tough. The Spurs should have been looking for another backup PF/C that can bring what TS brings to the table defensively. The Spurs have sucked in player development. Ideally you should always be developing guys so that they can replace you're starters. If they get good enough they can replace the starter or you can use them in a trade.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Green is as good as his team in some sense. He is a big time player and a top defender in the league who continues to be underrated, that's true. But if Green elects to take money and go to a substandard situation, say Orlando or Detroit who have been rumored, don't be surprised to see him fall into obscurity. Guys like Ellis for example (since he was mentioned earlier) can still thrive in bad situations (Milwaukee) due to their ability to score off the dribble, create their own shot, etc. Danny thrives in good situations (as do most players) but it's 10x more important for Danny to be on a good team with good players for him to truly be able to showcase his skills and be truly effective. I could see Detroit or someone signing Green to all that money and the fans instantly bitching about why he gets paid so much because he isn't truly able to showcase his skills on a team with lesser talent.

Green's limited skill set is masked in the Spurs motion offense where there are so many moving parts that defenses are forced to switch and recover. This creates open looks for players like Green to get off 3's. In a situation where Green has to create a shot his offensive production would decrease since he cannot put the ball on the floor.

His defensive strength of ball pressure on the perimeter are heightened because of the teams ability to rotate and recover. Often times Spurs players have already rotated to the correct man before the ball is even passed. On a team where players are not quite sure where to rotate he wouldn't be as productive. Green takes a lot of defensive risks (as does Kawhi) which would be frowned upon by other coaches as his risk taking would lead to open layups to basket if a team is not well disciplined as the Spurs.

[Malik Hairston]

Also, I don't understand why people seem to want Kawhi to be the only wing defender on the team:lol..half this forum(myself included) has complained about his offensive role, yet some of you want him to exert all his energy on defense, next season(which would be the case if Green is gone)?

It's 2015, having 2 capable wing defenders is more important than ever..the Warriors have 2 of them and also have Draymond Green that can cover some wing players, too..

The Spurs already saw a huge defensive drop-off in all their 5-man units that didn't feature Kawhi and/or Green, their bench wings have struggled on defense for the past 2-3 years, I don't know why the team would make it even more difficult on themselves by losing one of the only 2 reliable wing defenders on the roster..

[timtonymanu]

Also, I don't understand why people seem to want Kawhi to be the only wing defender on the team:lol..half this forum(myself included) has complained about his offensive role, yet some of you want him to exert all his energy on defense, next season(which would be the case if Green is gone)?

It's 2015, having 2 capable wing defenders is more important than ever..the Warriors have 2 of them and also have Draymond Green that can cover some wing players, too..

The Spurs already saw a huge defensive drop-off in all their 5-man units that didn't feature Kawhi and/or Green, their bench wings have struggled on defense for the past 2-3 years, I don't know why the team would make it even more difficult on themselves by losing one of the only 2 reliable wing defenders on the roster..

Not to mention the team will already be minus Splitter if Aldridge is really coming over. Might as well be the 2011 Spurs again.

[Malik Hairston]

Green's limited skill set is masked in the Spurs motion offense where there are so many moving parts that defenses are forced to switch and recover. This creates open looks for players like Green to get off 3's. In a situation where Green has to create a shot his offensive production would decrease since he cannot put the ball on the floor.

His defensive strength of ball pressure on the perimeter are heightened because of the teams ability to rotate and recover. Often times Spurs players have already rotated to the correct man before the ball is even passed. On a team where players are not quite sure where to rotate he wouldn't be as productive. Green takes a lot of defensive risks (as does Kawhi) which would be frowned upon by other coaches as his risk taking would lead to open layups to basket if a team is not well disciplined as the Spurs.

:lol Spurs defense before Green was a full-time starter:

2011: 11th
2012: 10th

That system, though..

[benefactor]

- Among wing players(3000+ poss or more, so excluding end of bench guys), there were only 5 of them with a DRAPM of 2+, Green being one of them..

Of those 5, Green was the only player to shoot 40%+ from 3-point range..

- Among all rotation wing players, Green was #6 in the NBA in ISO defense, and had the best 3-point % of anybody in the top percentile of the list..

- Only 6 perimeter players had a DBPM over 2, this year: Danny Green, Kawhi Leonard, Tony Allen, Nic Batum, Antetokoumpo and Russell Westbrook

- Only 1 player in the NBA(eligible, statistically, Pau Gasol and Zeller did it too on limited 3 attempts) shot 40% from 3 and had a DBPM over 2: Danny Green

- 6 players in the NBA averaged 1 BPG and 1 SPG last season: Demarcus Cousins, Anthony Davis, Draymond Green, Nerlens Noel, Josh Smith and Danny Green..only 1 of those guys is a wing player, and only 1 of those guys shot 40% from 3

- Danny Green was the 8th player in NBA history to average 1 BPG/SPG and >150 3s in a season

- Players in the NBA that had a VORP over 4, this year: Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Paul, Lebron, Anthony Davis, Lillard, Marc Gasol, DeAndre Jordan, Draymond Green, Jimmy Butler, Tim Duncan, Kawhi Leonard and Danny Green

Among those players, only Curry, Chris Paul and Danny Green shot 40% from 3:lol


Not sure in what universe that's replaceable with somebody on a lesser salary, tbh..only Kawhi and Duncan are more irreplaceable on this team..you can find a Parker on virtually every team in the NBA, Manu is tough to replicate but he's going to be on a minutes restriction, and while Splitter would be tough to replace, his injury history is troublesome..
https://prohoopshistory.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/hakeem-spin-cycle.gif

[raybies]

I have to admit, I must seriously underrate Green, cause I do not think he is worth 12+. Not with his skill-set. I get the 3 and D, but he's not Andre Iguodala, Klay Thompson etc. If it came down to it I'd rather have Wesely Mathews or Arron Afflalo for that money. Maybe even cheaper and these guys can post. Danny can't post. He is a niche player. Post Manu and Duncan, we need players that can be versatile on offense, cause if we don't get Aldridge or some threat on offense, how's Danny gonna get a look. Are we gonna rely on Tony's penetration? Or Kawhi's post ups? I think if he signs with the Spurs it will be for around 9 million, any more than that and I think they let him walk. He's a role player. They are replaceable. Not easily replaced for him, but can you imagine the hate if we are paying him more than anyone on the team other than Tony and Kawhi? We are not gonna do that. It's not worth it. We limit ourselves financially for a niche player. I don't think so.

I don't think the Spurs want to move away from either Splitter or Green, but if it comes down to it, I say Splitter stays. He's a quality big on a good contract and he would be an excellent pairing with LA should he come. Better that than to have a limited two-guard with a bloated contract. Like others have said, I trust the front office to find a suitable replacement. I'm sure they have plenty of "contingency" plans. I mean, it's debatable what's harder to find: a 3 and D wing or a starting Center. They both fit the Spurs need really well. So let's leave off with that what's harder to find?

The Spurs might have already answered this already. They were reportedly shopping Splitter and they drafted two bigs. So I think the Spurs do want Danny, I'm just interested to see if are willing to pay up cause I wouldn't. My guess is he signs a four year deal at 9 per. He sacrifices and proves he's a Spur just like Duncan and Manu. Then some crazy team like the Knicks offers him what we are guessing and he goes. LoL Goes home to New York.

[Mugen]

:cry B-B-But the system.....

[Juan]

:lol Spurs defense before Green was a full-time starter:

2011: 11th
2012: 10th

That system, though..

You were on a roll until this. Lets not overstate his importance by suggesting he is most responsible for the resurgence of the Spurs D. It has just as much to do with a Leonard, Splitter, Duncan weight loss, etc. Impossible to quantify.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

- Among wing players(3000+ poss or more, so excluding end of bench guys), there were only 5 of them with a DRAPM of 2+, Green being one of them..

Of those 5, Green was the only player to shoot 40%+ from 3-point range..

- Among all rotation wing players, Green was #6 in the NBA in ISO defense, and had the best 3-point % of anybody in the top percentile of the list..

- Only 6 perimeter players had a DBPM over 2, this year: Danny Green, Kawhi Leonard, Tony Allen, Nic Batum, Antetokoumpo and Russell Westbrook

- Only 1 player in the NBA(eligible, statistically, Pau Gasol and Zeller did it too on limited 3 attempts) shot 40% from 3 and had a DBPM over 2: Danny Green

- 6 players in the NBA averaged 1 BPG and 1 SPG last season: Demarcus Cousins, Anthony Davis, Draymond Green, Nerlens Noel, Josh Smith and Danny Green..only 1 of those guys is a wing player, and only 1 of those guys shot 40% from 3

- Danny Green was the 8th player in NBA history to average 1 BPG/SPG and >150 3s in a season

- Players in the NBA that had a VORP over 4, this year: Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Paul, Lebron, Anthony Davis, Lillard, Marc Gasol, DeAndre Jordan, Draymond Green, Jimmy Butler, Tim Duncan, Kawhi Leonard and Danny Green

Among those players, only Curry, Chris Paul and Danny Green shot 40% from 3:lol


Not sure in what universe that's replaceable with somebody on a lesser salary, tbh..only Kawhi and Duncan are more irreplaceable on this team..you can find a Parker on virtually every team in the NBA, Manu is tough to replicate but he's going to be on a minutes restriction, and while Splitter would be tough to replace, his injury history is troublesome..


Are there any stats to show how many times he fumbled the ball trying to complete a layup or how many times Pop took him out because of a defensive mistake or how many times he attempted a pass that didn't reach its target or how many times he was run off the three point line and jacked up a leaning three pointer or how many times he drove to the lane and couldn't complete the layup because of his inability to finish or how about being on the floor in the last minutes of the game instead of a 37 year old back up SG?

[palangi]

is palangi the worst poster of all time? I'm beginning to question if he really even watches basketball. Maybe he's watching another sport and thinks it's basketball?

Brilliant addition!

[tmtcsc]

You were referring to 2009 where you said Parker and Duncan were all stars. Maybe you meant in play, instead of the all star team itself.

Bogans was very much a part of the 2009 Spurs when Tim and Tony were All-Stars.

[Malik Hairston]

I have to admit, I must seriously underrate Green, cause I do not think he is worth 12+. Not with his skill-set. I get the 3 and D, but he's not Andre Iguodala, Klay Thompson etc. If it came down to it I'd rather have Wesely Mathews or Arron Afflalo for that money. Maybe even cheaper and these guys can post. Danny can't post. He is a niche player. Post Manu and Duncan, we need players that can be versatile on offense, cause if we don't get Aldridge or some threat on offense, how's Danny gonna get a look. Are we gonna rely on Tony's penetration? Or Kawhi's post ups? I think if he signs with the Spurs it will be for around 9 million, any more than that and I think they let him walk. He's a role player. They are replaceable. Not easily replaced for him, but can you imagine the hate if we are paying him more than anyone on the team other than Tony and Kawhi? We are not gonna do that. It's not worth it. We limit ourselves financially for a niche player. I don't think so.

I don't think the Spurs want to move away from either Splitter or Green, but if it comes down to it, I say Splitter stays. He's a quality big on a good contract and he would be an excellent pairing with LA should he come. Better that than to have a limited two-guard with a bloated contract. Like others have said, I trust the front office to find a suitable replacement. I'm sure they have plenty of "contingency" plans. I mean, it's debatable what's harder to find: a 3 and D wing or a starting Center. They both fit the Spurs need really well. So let's leave off with that what's harder to find?

The Spurs might have already answered this already. They were reportedly shopping Splitter and they drafted two bigs. So I think the Spurs do want Danny, I'm just interested to see if are willing to pay up cause I wouldn't. My guess is he signs a four year deal at 9 per. He sacrifices and proves he's a Spur just like Duncan and Manu. Then some crazy team like the Knicks offers him what we are guessing and he goes. LoL Goes home to New York.

Saying he isn't as good as Finals MVP Iguodala and max contract Klay Thompson isn't really an insult, tbh:lol..

And I agree that Matthews was better, but he was projected to receive near-max prior to his injury, an even bigger payday than Green..players with Matthews' injury don't recover well, though, based on past examples, he's probably finished as a high-level role player IMO..

Afflalo hasn't been a good defender since his 1st year in Denver, I'd rather have Beli, tbh..

Re: Splitter, the question isn't whether a 3&D guy is more valuable than a starting C IMO, since Aldridge would be here, if they have to lose one..it's a matter of a starting SG(the worst position in today's league) vs. the 4th big on the team(which is what Splitter would probably be if Aldridge joins) on a team where Kawhi can even play the 4, too..

[palangi]

Are there any stats to show how many times he fumbled the ball trying to complete a layup or how many times Pop took him out because of a defensive mistake or how many times he attempted a pass that didn't reach its target or how many times he was run off the three point line and jacked up a leaning three pointer or how many times he drove to the lane and couldn't complete the layup because of his inability to finish or how about being on the floor in the last minutes of the game instead of a 37 year old back up SG?

That's my issue with green. As good as he can look sometimes on defense he makes big mistakes as well. I feel his defense is overrated by some here.

His lack of ability in dribbling and making a lap is so frustrating. I just don't remember when green became apart of of or big 3?

[timtonymanu]

Bogans was very much a part of the 2009 Spurs when Tim and Tony were All-Stars.

I'm talking about 2008 - 2009. You could have been talking about the next season.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2009.html

No Keith Bogans there.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

:lol Spurs defense before Green was a full-time starter:

2011: 11th
2012: 10th

That system, though..


:lol:lol:lol The addition of Kawhi and Splitter plus the resurgence of Duncan.

[timtonymanu]

Aron Afflalo :lmao

Why does that shitty name keep popping up as a Green replacement?

[Malik Hairston]

You were on a roll until this. Lets not overstate his importance by suggesting he is most responsible for the resurgence of the Spurs D. It has just as much to do with a Leonard, Splitter, Duncan weight loss, etc. Impossible to quantify.

I agree, I'm not crediting Green entirely for the improvement..Kawhi is the best defender on the team, and Splitter has been massive..however, saying the Spurs system is more important than defensive talent(which is what that poster was implying and has implied in his past posting history by downplaying both Green and Leonard) is false IMO..you can't plug in anybody and succeed, especially when we're discussing a Spurs' defense that has finished 2nd, 3rd and 2nd since the Leonard/Green/Splitter trio was inserted into the SL..

Contrary to the perception that was created because of the Spurs' beautiful brand of basketball in 2013 and 2014, this is a defense-first team..their D has been far better than their offense for the past 3 years..

[Chinook]

Green's limited skill set is masked in the Spurs motion offense where there are so many moving parts that defenses are forced to switch and recover. This creates open looks for players like Green to get off 3's. In a situation where Green has to create a shot his offensive production would decrease since he cannot put the ball on the floor.

His defensive strength of ball pressure on the perimeter are heightened because of the teams ability to rotate and recover. Often times Spurs players have already rotated to the correct man before the ball is even passed. On a team where players are not quite sure where to rotate he wouldn't be as productive. Green takes a lot of defensive risks (as does Kawhi) which would be frowned upon by other coaches as his risk taking would lead to open layups to basket if a team is not well disciplined as the Spurs.

That all sounds nice, but it's pretty much all slanted incorrectly.

First, the Spurs have the space to run a motion offense because of their shooting, not the other way around. It's Green's gravity that opens driving lanes and clears the paint for post-ups. Having a non-shooter out there would mean that the Spurs would never be able to drive and kick like they do now. No one doubts Danny mainly shoots when he's open (almost everyone who plays on a good team does), but his quick release and smart movement changes what conditions constitute being open in the first place.

Second, there are plenty of ways to get shooters open that don't require having a complex offense. Having post players or just stars in general will open up looks because those players force doubles. OKC ran a terrible offense under Brooks, but they had no issues getting open looks for their role-players.

Third, Green and Leonard aren't taking risk with their man defense. They funnel guys to Duncan almost perfectly every time. Duncan makes the rotation he's supposed to because that's how the defense is supposed to work. But setting up their men like they do, Danny and Kawhi let Duncan work in a phone booth, where he's still arguably the best defender in the league. When you don't have those guys defending, when the opposing players are actually beating the Spurs wings, Duncan has to play in space, which is usually a disaster nowadays. That's what was happening for most of the Dallas series. You're right that Green will look worse on a team with a less development defensive identity, but he will still look better than the players around him.

[AFBlue]

Is this yet another debate of his worth, or an actual discussion of other players that could realistically full his role. If it's the latter, I'd prefer to trade Splitter to address the issue of Danny leaving. That opens up the options for replacement significantly.

[tmtcsc]

Also, I don't understand why people seem to want Kawhi to be the only wing defender on the team:lol..half this forum(myself included) has complained about his offensive role, yet some of you want him to exert all his energy on defense, next season(which would be the case if Green is gone)?

It's 2015, having 2 capable wing defenders is more important than ever..the Warriors have 2 of them and also have Draymond Green that can cover some wing players, too..

The Spurs already saw a huge defensive drop-off in all their 5-man units that didn't feature Kawhi and/or Green, their bench wings have struggled on defense for the past 2-3 years, I don't know why the team would make it even more difficult on themselves by losing one of the only 2 reliable wing defenders on the roster..

You make it seem like the Spurs aren't going to try to fill his position with anyone else. Perhaps they can get Aminu cheaper than DG.

[Malik Hairston]

:lol:lol:lol The addition of Kawhi and Splitter plus the resurgence of Duncan.

You were just crediting the system for the defensive success of the Spurs:lol..you also downplay Kawhi's impact, all the time, too..

[benefactor]

Fucking Christ are some of you the result of dad fucking one of his sisters?

[raybies]

Saying he isn't as good as Finals MVP Iguodala and max contract Klay Thompson isn't really an insult, tbh:lol..

And I agree that Matthews was better, but he was projected to receive near-max prior to his injury, an even bigger payday than Green..players with Matthews' injury don't recover well, though, based on past examples, he's probably finished as a high-level role player IMO..

Afflalo hasn't been a good defender since his 1st year in Denver, I'd rather have Beli, tbh..

And in all fairness, he could have been a finals MVP had we won and if he made a couple more threes over the last two games. So there's that.

My point is the money Andre and Klay are getting in the scenario he gets some crazy offer.

[Buddy Mignon]

True. The biggest free agents we've ever landed were Derek Anderson and Brent Barry!

:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Malik Hairston]

You make it seem like the Spurs aren't going to try to fill his position with anyone else. Perhaps they can get Aminu cheaper than DG.

The problem is that SG is the worst and shallowest position in basketball, the alternatives are scarce..not to mention the difficulty in building chemistry and fit that the Spurs built with Green for the past 4 years..

Aminu sounds nice, but he's a SF/PF like Kawhi, and he's a 27% 3-point shooter..

[Chinook]

Are there any stats to show how many times he fumbled the ball trying to complete a layup or how many times Pop took him out because of a defensive mistake or how many times he attempted a pass that didn't reach its target or how many times he was run off the three point line and jacked up a leaning three pointer or how many times he drove to the lane and couldn't complete the layup because of his inability to finish or how about being on the floor in the last minutes of the game instead of a 37 year old back up SG?

Yes, there are stats for all of those, except Pop pulling him. As far as I know, stupid coaching moves aren't an official stat in anyone's book yet.

[raybies]

Aron Afflalo :lmao

Why does that shitty name keep popping up as a Green replacement?

Because he could be a bargain. You don't think he could benefit from having a rim protector like Duncan or a wing defender like Leonard.

Value.

[Malik Hairston]

Yes, there are stats for all of those, except Pop pulling him. As far as I know, stupid coaching moves aren't an official stat in anyone's book yet.

A lot of posters complained about Green playing too much down the stretch in these playoffs when he was struggling, actually, so Pop wasn't really benching him this time IIRC:lol..

[timtonymanu]

That's my issue with green. As good as he can look sometimes on defense he makes big mistakes as well. I feel his defense is overrated by some here.

His lack of ability in dribbling and making a lap is so frustrating. I just don't remember when green became apart of of or big 3?

smh @ posters that think our SG needs to be a creator and scorer. Just doesn't fucking fit the current system for the Spurs. Leonard might as well not get any touches if Green were to be an efficient scorer. You don't ditch Green because he doesn't fit that criteria, you keep him for his elite defense (even with his mistakes) especially against opposing PGs which he is the best in the league at.

[tmtcsc]

If DG leaves, the Spurs offense will be adjusted again. As much as the 3 point production is nice, it will be comforting to know that Aldridge (assuming he comes here) will be available for higher percentage shots. They would still have Mills and Leonard too. Id hope the Spurs don't look for a 3 pt shooting SG to replace Danny but rather a more defensive minded player.

[Malik Hairston]

Anyways, while I disagree with it and hope it doesn't occur, I can fully understand the Spurs letting Green walk if they can acquire Aldridge..when you can have a top 20 player in the NBA, especially in San Antonio, you take it IMO..

I don't expect it to happen, though..I still think Green will be a Spur next year, even with Aldridge on the roster..

[therealtruth]

DG would have been the hero of game 7 against the Clippers if TP didn't happen.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

That all sounds nice, but it's pretty much all slanted incorrectly.

First, the Spurs have the space to run a motion offense because of their shooting, not the other way around. It's Green's gravity that opens driving lanes and clears the paint for post-ups. Having a non-shooter out there would mean that the Spurs would never be able to drive and kick like they do now. No one doubts Danny mainly shoots when he's open (almost everyone who plays on a good team does), but his quick release and smart movement changes what conditions constitute being open in the first place.

Second, there are plenty of ways to get shooters open that don't require having a complex offense. Having post players or just stars in general will open up looks because those players force doubles. OKC ran a terrible offense under Brooks, but they had no issues getting open looks for their role-players.

Third, Green and Leonard aren't taking risk with their man defense. They funnel guys to Duncan almost perfectly every time. Duncan makes the rotation he's supposed to because that's how the defense is supposed to work. But setting up their men like they do, Danny and Kawhi let Duncan work in a phone booth, where he's still arguably the best defender in the league. When you don't have those guys defending, when the opposing players are actually beating the Spurs wings, Duncan has to play in space, which is usually a disaster nowadays. That's what was happening for most of the Dallas series. You're right that Green will look worse on a team with a less development defensive identity, but he will still look better than the players around him.

In 2009-10 when the Spurs played the Suns in the second of the playoffs they were swept because they had shooters. Unfortunately, on their pick and roll offense the bigs were Duncan, Bonner, and McDyess. None of these bigs were good at going to rim after setting a pick. The suns knew this and all of their players just collapse on D and protect lane. This made it diffficult for Parker and Manu to get to basket. When Parker or Manu made a pass to the three point line Suns defenders could challenge shot because they knew that the Spurs were not athletic enough to get to rim. It's a different defensive mindset when you are challenging a shot and don't have to worry about your player driving to basket. Defending the three is easy as you do not have to chop your steps.
After this loss is when Pop started to change his offensive mindset and bring in players that were bettter suited for a motion offense.

Green and Kawhi funneling players to Duncan is taking a risk as most players are taught not to leave baseline open. Spurs players are often taught the opposite. Green is often on the offensive players hip at a right angle which is not the way players are taught. AGain this is because of spurs defensive schemes and Duncan. Other teams except for Memphis and Chicago just do not have the same team defense mindset.

[tmtcsc]

I would like to see Danny Green stay for 8 million per. Perhaps sign a 3 year contract with player option in year 3. How feasible is that with getting LA?

[Nathan89]

Is this yet another debate of his worth, or an actual discussion of other players that could realistically full his role. If it's the latter, I'd prefer to trade Splitter to address the issue of Danny leaving. That opens up the options for replacement significantly.

This is a must if Green leaves. We can't have 4 talented bigs and no sgs. Not sure who I would target though.

[Nathan89]

I would like to see Danny Green stay for 8 million per. Perhaps sign a 3 year contract with player option in year 3. How feasible is that with getting LA?

Green isn't getting only 8 mil.

[Mugen]

I would like to see Danny Green stay for 8 million per. Perhaps sign a 3 year contract with player option in year 3. How feasible is that with getting LA?

:lol Not very when guys like Jodie Meeks got 3yr/19 mil tbh. Green will get at least 11-12mil per year this summer.

[BatManu20]

I would like to see Danny Green stay for 8 million per. Perhaps sign a 3 year contract with player option in year 3. How feasible is that with getting LA?

It's not. Green is going to get offer(s) of at least $10 Million per, maybe more.

[Nathan89]

If DG leaves, the Spurs offense will be adjusted again. As much as the 3 point production is nice, it will be comforting to know that Aldridge (assuming he comes here) will be available for higher percentage shots. They would still have Mills and Leonard too. Id hope the Spurs don't look for a 3 pt shooting SG to replace Danny but rather a more defensive minded player.

The player would have have some three point shooting abilities. Can't play a non-shooting sg next to our pg.

[ducks]

Could green sign a 4 year deal for 32 million with an player opt next year cap go up and Duncan and manu both will retire then

[palangi]

smh @ posters that think our SG needs to be a creator and scorer. Just doesn't fucking fit the current system for the Spurs. Leonard might as well not get any touches if Green were to be an efficient scorer. You don't ditch Green because he doesn't fit that criteria, you keep him for his elite defense (even with his mistakes) especially against opposing PGs which he is the best in the league at.
Ginobli?

[DJR210]

Green needs to not be a faggot and give the Spurs a huge hometown discount to stay.

[palangi]

I would like to see Danny Green stay for 8 million per. Perhaps sign a 3 year contract with player option in year 3. How feasible is that with getting LA?

If we could keep him for 7 or 8 million I would down

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Belli is the in house solution.

[Chinook]

In 2009-10 when the Spurs played the Suns in the second of the playoffs they were swept because they had shooters. Unfortunately, on their pick and roll offense the bigs were Duncan, Bonner, and McDyess. None of these bigs were good at going to rim after setting a pick. The suns knew this and all of their players just collapse on D and protect lane. This made it diffficult for Parker and Manu to get to basket. When Parker or Manu made a pass to the three point line Suns defenders could challenge shot because they knew that the Spurs were not athletic enough to get to rim. It's a different defensive mindset when you are challenging a shot and have to worry about your player driving to basket. Defending the three is easy as you do not have to chop your steps.

They were swept because no one could guard Nash or Amare. The Spurs were such a paper tiger back then, because their defense was awful (comparatively) and Tim was on the downslope of his career (we thought). You're right that without penetration, shooters won't be open. But the Spurs' guards don't consistently beat their guys off the dribble anymore. The only reason why it works out for them as often as it does is because the other perimeter defenders can't help off the shooters.


Green and Kawhi funneling players to Duncan is taking a risk as most players are taught not to leave baseline open. Spurs players are often taught the opposite. Green is often on the offensive players hip at a right angle which is not the way players are taught. AGain this is because of spurs defensive schemes and Duncan. Other teams except for Memphis and Chicago just do not have the same team defense mindset.

"No baseline" hasn't been standard defensive technique in a while now. The new phrase is "No Middle". But funneling to the short corner, Green and Leonard effectively trap their guy on three sides. In front of them is Duncan, on one side is the baseline and on the other is the defender. That makes much more sense than allowing middle where the shot-blocker has to guard both sides at once and where the drop-off pass to the big is easier to make. I have no idea who you think allows middle now, but no one who has a good defensive system does.

[apalisoc_9]

Why am I not surprised the biggest Danny hater is a Tony parker fan...

[baseline bum]

Less than $10 million a season for Green isn't happening with the cap getting ready to hit $108 million in two years. I could give a shit between $8 million and $12 million, they both will cost the Spurs the same amount of capspace the way they have everything set up. If the Spurs lose Green I really don't see them being any better than a 5 or 6 seed next year, we'll be going back to the days of Roger Mason and Richard Jefferson where opposing guards will shit on the team every night.

[tmtcsc]

It's not. Green is going to get offer(s) of at least $10 Million per, maybe more.

Take a look at his numbers the last time he was an UFA. They aren't dramatically different. Of course he completely shat the bed against OKC in the WCF which didn't help things for himself.

(2011-2012): 23 min, 9.1 ppg, 43.6 3FG%, 3.5 Rebs., .7 blks, .9 steals

(2014-2015): 28.5 min, 11. 7 ppg, 41.8 3FG%, 4.2 Rebs., 1.1 blks, 1.2 steals

Can you really justify tripling his salary?

[ducks]

Green will get more then tp
Cuban will do that after loosing alridge to spurs

[baseline bum]

- Among wing players(3000+ poss or more, so excluding end of bench guys), there were only 5 of them with a DRAPM of 2+, Green being one of them..

Of those 5, Green was the only player to shoot 40%+ from 3-point range..

- Among all rotation wing players, Green was #6 in the NBA in ISO defense, and had the best 3-point % of anybody in the top percentile of the list..

- Only 6 perimeter players had a DBPM over 2, this year: Danny Green, Kawhi Leonard, Tony Allen, Nic Batum, Antetokoumpo and Russell Westbrook

- Only 1 player in the NBA(eligible, statistically, Pau Gasol and Zeller did it too on limited 3 attempts) shot 40% from 3 and had a DBPM over 2: Danny Green

- 6 players in the NBA averaged 1 BPG and 1 SPG last season: Demarcus Cousins, Anthony Davis, Draymond Green, Nerlens Noel, Josh Smith and Danny Green..only 1 of those guys is a wing player, and only 1 of those guys shot 40% from 3

- Danny Green was the 8th player in NBA history to average 1 BPG/SPG and >150 3s in a season

- Players in the NBA that had a VORP over 4, this year: Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Paul, Lebron, Anthony Davis, Lillard, Marc Gasol, DeAndre Jordan, Draymond Green, Jimmy Butler, Tim Duncan, Kawhi Leonard and Danny Green

Among those players, only Curry, Chris Paul and Danny Green shot 40% from 3:lol


Not sure in what universe that's replaceable with somebody on a lesser salary, tbh..only Kawhi and Duncan are more irreplaceable on this team..you can find a Parker on virtually every team in the NBA, Manu is tough to replicate but he's going to be on a minutes restriction, and while Splitter would be tough to replace, his injury history is troublesome..

Damn Harlem with the uppercut out of nowhere, delivering the TKO in the first.

[dbestpro]

The solution might be moving Leonard to SG and Anderson to SF. You then get a vet backup SF to spot fill when/if Anderson falters. It might be easier to find a defensive SF than a defensive SG, and no one would be better than who we already have.

[Agloco]

- Among wing players(3000+ poss or more, so excluding end of bench guys), there were only 5 of them with a DRAPM of 2+, Green being one of them..

Of those 5, Green was the only player to shoot 40%+ from 3-point range..

- Among all rotation wing players, Green was #6 in the NBA in ISO defense, and had the best 3-point % of anybody in the top percentile of the list..

- Only 6 perimeter players had a DBPM over 2, this year: Danny Green, Kawhi Leonard, Tony Allen, Nic Batum, Antetokoumpo and Russell Westbrook

- Only 1 player in the NBA(eligible, statistically, Pau Gasol and Zeller did it too on limited 3 attempts) shot 40% from 3 and had a DBPM over 2: Danny Green

- 6 players in the NBA averaged 1 BPG and 1 SPG last season: Demarcus Cousins, Anthony Davis, Draymond Green, Nerlens Noel, Josh Smith and Danny Green..only 1 of those guys is a wing player, and only 1 of those guys shot 40% from 3

- Danny Green was the 8th player in NBA history to average 1 BPG/SPG and >150 3s in a season

- Players in the NBA that had a VORP over 4, this year: Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Paul, Lebron, Anthony Davis, Lillard, Marc Gasol, DeAndre Jordan, Draymond Green, Jimmy Butler, Tim Duncan, Kawhi Leonard and Danny Green

Among those players, only Curry, Chris Paul and Danny Green shot 40% from 3:lol


Not sure in what universe that's replaceable with somebody on a lesser salary, tbh..only Kawhi and Duncan are more irreplaceable on this team..you can find a Parker on virtually every team in the NBA, Manu is tough to replicate but he's going to be on a minutes restriction, and while Splitter would be tough to replace, his injury history is troublesome..

WTF can't you post cogent shit like this all the time Halem? I long for the good old days......

[Agloco]

What's the feasibility of setting up a scaling salary for Verde like 8, 10, ,12, 14 mil in successive seasons? Is that allowed? What do our resident salary experts say?

[manufan10]

I hope DG will re-sign with the Spurs, but if he decides to leave for more money I can't blame him.

[manufan10]

WTF can't you post cogent shit like this all the time Halem? I long for the good old days......

:lol

[raybies]

The solution might be moving Leonard to SG and Anderson to SF. You then get a vet backup SF to spot fill when/if Anderson falters. It might be easier to find a defensive SF than a defensive SG, and no one would be better than who we already have.

Good point. And Leonard would eat two guards up.

[coachmac87]

You're fucking retarded if you're willing to pass on LMA for Green/Splitter...the biggest deal about signing LMA is not about next year. It's about the post Duncan era. Period.

[G-Dawgg]

It would be very interesting to see how well Kawhi could do playing the off guard position...

[Shabazz]

Trade for Reggie Bullock. He is getting no playing time for the Suns (similar to Danny in Cleveland.). He is a 3-and-D guy. He isn't the shotblocker Danny is. But hey, the last time Pop and Roy Williams collaborated on a similar player it worked out well.

[cutewizard]

Just brainstorming

Get Nocioni and move Kawhi to the offguard spot

hehehehehe

[wildchild]

Also, I don't understand why people seem to want Kawhi to be the only wing defender on the team:lol..half this forum(myself included) has complained about his offensive role, yet some of you want him to exert all his energy on defense, next season(which would be the case if Green is gone)?

Maybe that's Pop plan. Having Kawhi playing D and give Lamarcus and Tony all the touches they need to be effective on the offensive end.

I've said before that the only reason for Kawhi's offensive emergence was Parker's injury/low performance.
Even Leonard said Pop let him do more on the floor in march and april rather than limit him as he used to do.

The Spurs will revive the 1-4 pick and roll with the starting lineup, plus Aldridge will take 20 FGA per game -he needs 19.9 to score 23ppg-, healthy Parker needs 14/15 FGA to score 17 points, and with Spurs' pace, there is no way that Kawhi can have an offensive role on the team.
His offense will return to his 2012-13 status, some fast break points from steals and occasional corner 3's.

Thinking long term, I'd like to see Pop sacrificing a little bit Parker's role in order to continue developing Leonard's game but that never gonna happen.

[tmtcsc]

- Among wing players(3000+ poss or more, so excluding end of bench guys), there were only 5 of them with a DRAPM of 2+, Green being one of them..

Of those 5, Green was the only player to shoot 40%+ from 3-point range..

- Among all rotation wing players, Green was #6 in the NBA in ISO defense, and had the best 3-point % of anybody in the top percentile of the list..

- Only 6 perimeter players had a DBPM over 2, this year: Danny Green, Kawhi Leonard, Tony Allen, Nic Batum, Antetokoumpo and Russell Westbrook

- Only 1 player in the NBA(eligible, statistically, Pau Gasol and Zeller did it too on limited 3 attempts) shot 40% from 3 and had a DBPM over 2: Danny Green

- 6 players in the NBA averaged 1 BPG and 1 SPG last season: Demarcus Cousins, Anthony Davis, Draymond Green, Nerlens Noel, Josh Smith and Danny Green..only 1 of those guys is a wing player, and only 1 of those guys shot 40% from 3

- Danny Green was the 8th player in NBA history to average 1 BPG/SPG and >150 3s in a season

- Players in the NBA that had a VORP over 4, this year: Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Paul, Lebron, Anthony Davis, Lillard, Marc Gasol, DeAndre Jordan, Draymond Green, Jimmy Butler, Tim Duncan, Kawhi Leonard and Danny Green

Among those players, only Curry, Chris Paul and Danny Green shot 40% from 3:lol


Not sure in what universe that's replaceable with somebody on a lesser salary, tbh..only Kawhi and Duncan are more irreplaceable on this team..you can find a Parker on virtually every team in the NBA, Manu is tough to replicate but he's going to be on a minutes restriction, and while Splitter would be tough to replace, his injury history is troublesome..

All those wonderful stats equaled a 1st round loss in the playoffs.

[tmtcsc]

You're fucking retarded if you're willing to pass on LMA for Green/Splitter...the biggest deal about signing LMA is not about next year. It's about the post Duncan era. Period.

Drops mic. Well said.

[Chinook]

All those wonderful stats equaled a 1st round loss in the playoffs.

Also equalled three deep playoff runs. What a shitty comeback.

[tmtcsc]

Also equalled three deep playoff runs. What a shitty comeback.

Danny Green had a solid year but you are over-valuing his contributions. Kawhi Leonard had more to do with those 3 deep playoff runs imo. I'd love for Green to stay a Spur but not at 3 times his current salary and not if it costs the Spurs a chance to get an All-Star PF. Tim won't be here much longer.

[Chinook]

Danny Green had a solid year but you are over-valuing his contributions. Kawhi Leonard had more to do with those 3 deep playoff runs imo. I'd love for Green to stay a Spur but not at 3 times his current salary and not if it costs the Spurs a chance to get an All-Star PF. Tim won't be here much longer.

Do you not see how hypocritical your stance is? Green was absolutely elite during his time as a starter, and you're trying to dismiss his impact last season by saying the Spurs didn't make it out of the first round. Yet you're so keen to sacrifice him for Aldridge, who's been out of the first round once in my memory. So who cares if he's an All-Star if he can't even take his team to the semis on a regular basis? Why is that worth sacrificing any of a championship core for?

Again, though, it's been demonstrated that you CAN'T expect to replace Green's production with a journeyman any more than you can replace LMA's. By most educated accounts, Green is top-five at his position in terms of overall impact, and you just aren't going to get any near that for the min guys through whom the Spurs would have to pick if they let Green walk. Also, Green's cap hold is all that matters in terms of being able to sign LMA, so if you're willing to pay Green $8 Million, paying him $12 Million is functionally the same thing.

If it's so important to get a younger big like Aldridge that the Spurs have to sacrifice a rotation player to do it, it simply makes more sense that that player be a big (preferably Diaw). Letting Green walk with no way of replacing him is foolish. As far as the future goes, the Spurs will have max cap space in 2016 anyway, so it's not like they couldn't go for a free agent then.

[tmtcsc]

Do you not see how hypocritical your stance is? Green was absolutely elite during his time as a starter, and you're trying to dismiss his impact last season by saying the Spurs didn't make it out of the first round. Yet you're so keen to sacrifice him for Aldridge, who's been out of the first round once in my memory. So who cares if he's an All-Star if he can't even take his team to the semis on a regular basis? Why is that worth sacrificing any of a championship core for?

Again, though, it's been demonstrated that you CAN'T expect to replace Green's production with a journeyman any more than you can replace LMA's. By most educated accounts, Green is top-five at his position in terms of overall impact, and you just aren't going to get any near that for the min guys through whom the Spurs would have to pick if they let Green walk. Also, Green's cap hold is all that matters in terms of being able to sign LMA, so if you're willing to pay Green $8 Million, paying him $12 Million is functionally the same thing.

If it's so important to get a younger big like Aldridge that the Spurs have to sacrifice a rotation player to do it, it simply makes more sense that that player be a big (preferably Diaw). Letting Green walk with no way of replacing him is foolish. As far as the future goes, the Spurs will have max cap space in 2016 anyway, so it's not like they couldn't go for a free agent then.

We're not going to agree. You prefer keeping DG over getting Aldridge correct? It's my opinion that there are more shooting guards with the potential to replace Danny's contributions than there are elite bigs to replace Tim's. I also think the Spurs need to replace Splitter. Not because he sucks, but because he is prone to freakish injuries. He's a bargain as far as contracts go but what good is that if you can't count on him? So that leaves a huge void in the front court in the next couple of years.

If you want to build for the future AND stay in the hunt for a title next year, you bring in Aldridge if you can. Otherwise, you sign Danny to market value and look for Tim's replacement next year. Here's a list of potential free agents in 2016. Its not 100% accurate because some players (like David West) are opting to become free agents this year.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2016/


2016 Potential SG Free Agents (In no particular order):

1. Joe Johnson
2. Eric Gordon
3. Bradley Beal
4. Jeremy Lamb

[littlecoyotecoin]

:lol Spurs defense before Green was a full-time starter:

2011: 11th
2012: 10th

That system, though..

Not sure if serious. That's, pretty much, meaningless. Moving up one slot is almost definitely not statistically significant, which bolsters the argument that Green isn't the defender you, Chinook and others claim. I don't necessarily believe that; I think he is a very good defender, but the team moving up a slot when he became a starter would almost definitely fall under the grey area of random error. Essentially no change in defensive rank when Green starts. Definitely more convincing evidence out there than that.

He is a very good 3/D guy, and I hope we can keep him. But, if he commands too much in the free market, his negatives, inability to create off the dribble, and a propensity for turnovers and bad shots when he attempts to create off the dribble equaling same (turnover), and other Danny Green moments, must become more scrutinized as his commanded salary continues to increase.

When he is compared to Neal, etc, salary must be considered...we are talking 4 million for a Neal maybe, and as much as 10-15 million for Danny. Of course Danny is better than Neal, the question is, is he ten million dollars better? And, Neal is just a random example. Same question for any replacement.

Bottom line is he wins out over Tiago (IMHO) because Tiago is no longer reliable. As others point out. Green is less of a gamble. We know what we are getting. With Tiago, you may end up with almost nothing all season, or at the most inopportune time. Better to gamble on an inferior Tiago replacement than an inferior Green replacement. Even an inferior Tiago replacement is far superior to no Tiago, or even limited Tiago.

A curious question to the Danny-Gree-can-do-no-wrong camp, and he was always a "great" player: At what price is Danny Green not worth keeping?

Most seem to agree 10 seems fair. I don't see a whole lot of Danny Green is unappreciated. A small handful of people say let him walk, but only based on the premise that he gets offered a ridiculous amount.

Chinook, do we pay him $15 million? 20?

[dabom]

Green didnt make us contendOrS. Kawhi did. Get it straight chinook.

[Mugen]

^ Fat Boy take.

[tbear280]

Marco is a Liability on defense, only a shooter. Not the solution at all to start.

[tholdren]

I would sign and trade green for kyrie. Danny is gay for lebum and James is jealous of kyrie. Works for errrrybody

[Chinook]

Green didnt make us contendOrS. Kawhi did. Get it straight chinook.

All three of the Medium Three did. They'd each still be ringless had one been missing.

[Juan]

All three of the Medium Three did. They'd each still be ringless had one been missing.

So where do you draw the line with his contract? Say a team offers 12-15M annually. You believe the Spurs should match those offers? Jw if you have a certain price.

[tholdren]

Damn Harlem with the uppercut out of nowhere, delivering the TKO in the first.
give me a break, living on the advanced stats shit-train.

1. Danny Green was 6th in the playoff in Spot up defense, not isolation. LOL that you use this "stat" as evidence - Glen Davis ranked ahead of Danny here… so I guess, since you are using these stats, Davis could potentially be his replacement or Prigioni, who also had better "stats" than Danny in some similar defensive categories.

I like some of what Danny does, he's soft, and I don't like that. He has mental lapses, that defensive leaders can't have, he pouts, and he's virtually garbage when his shot isn't on.

Im a what-have-you-done-lately person. Danny, has made some huge shots for SA, but his time to step up was during the playoffs when Tony was injured and SA couldn't score. He didn't. So why are people intent on giving him a HUGE payday, when he clearly showed he can only be highly effective when there is a big3 or 4 when it counts?

Don't want him to go, but if he's trying to get 12m then enjoy. He's no bruce. He's no Capn. He's no KL. He's not even a Tony Allen. Spurs saved him, he owes them. He should play for loyalty.

[BatManu20]

^What a shit take.

[dabom]

Danny cany dribble shot contested shots is a streaky shooter and makes dumb mistakes in the clutch. Great defender took.
the

[dabom]

Not worth more than 9mil a year.

[therealtruth]

I think the main issues is the Spurs need to realize LA isn't some missing piece that instantly equals championship especially if you're sacrificing key defensive guys. They essentially have to rebuild the roster for it to work defensively. LA's defensive impact won't be close to what the team has with Splitter/Green. It took a while (couple of years) in the past to get the right mix of guys defensively.

[TXstbobcat]

Not worth more than 9mil a year.

If $9 million per year is the Spurs offer than Verde is gone.

[dabom]

Buh bye

[Texas_Ranger]

I love Danny but he ain't worth 10M. Perhaps with the new cap but not now. And if it takes more then that to sign him I wouldn't do it.

[ace3g]

I mentioned him in the general free agency thread: Not sure if he got along with Messina, but he should have some kind of insight into if Weems would work in the Spurs system:

Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA (https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA) Jun 18 (https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/status/611643053435158528) After a successful stint overseas, Sonny Weems has left CSKA and will weigh NBA opportunities as an unrestricted free agent.

[dbestpro]

If the Spurs sign Aldridge, and have to let Danny Green go, they might try to replace him with one of the following names, which are a combination of guards, and SFs, some who would be there strictly for defense. Most likely would be a different solution every night with Leonard at SG/SF and Anderson rotating with one of these caliber level players.

Luc Richard Mbah a Moute, Gerald Green, Mike Dunleavy, Alexey Shved, Omri Casspi, Jared Dudley, and Landry Fields

[Malik Hairston]

I think people are really underestimating how difficult it's going to be to find a good fit with the Spurs' current starting PG, tbh..

[Robz4000]

I think people are really underestimating how difficult it's going to be to find a good fit with the Spurs' current starting PG, tbh..

Its ok tho because as long as the Spurs put a player of Keith Bogans' or RJ's caliber in the starting lineup they won't miss a beat! Heck, another ball dominant chucker may be just what the doctor ordered.

[Malik Hairston]

Its ok tho because as long as the Spurs put a player of Keith Bogans' or RJ's caliber in the starting lineup they won't miss a beat! Heck, another ball dominant chucker may be just what the doctor ordered.

It's going to be difficult, regardless, and I think people are really underestimating that..

Add an offensive-minded player that does all the things Green can't(Beli, Stuckey, etc) = who masks Parker on defense vs. opposing backcourt players? Kawhi becomes strictly a defensive role player? How will Parker play as a spot-up shooter?

Add a defensive-minded player that can't shoot consistently(Aminu, etc) = how do you space the floor with Parker/that player/Kawhi/Duncan on the floor?

[Robz4000]

It's going to be difficult, regardless, and I think people are really underestimating that..

Add an offensive-minded player that does all the things Green can't(Beli, Stuckey, etc) = who masks Parker on defense vs. opposing backcourt players? Kawhi becomes strictly a defensive role player? How will Parker play as a spot-up shooter?

Add a defensive-minded player that can't shoot consistently(Aminu, etc) = how do you space the floor with Parker/that player/Kawhi/Duncan on the floor?

They won't find a replacement capable enough of coming close to replicating what Green does for less than what Green gets. As some posters have alluded to, if the Spurs let Green walk they're prolly second round fodder.

[coachmac87]

Green won't help the post Duncan era like Aldridge tho. And because of that you sacrifice Green. Period.

[baseline bum]

Green won't help the post Duncan era like Aldridge tho. And because of that you sacrifice Green. Period.

Fuck the post Duncan era, Aldridge isn't taking this team to titles at age 32 and beyond. Once Duncan retires the Spurs become a lower half of the bracket playoff team at best.

[Mugen]

Pretty much. Any team that signs Aldridge has a 2 year window to win a title with him and the only team I see that happening with is the Spurs.

It makes no sense for the Lakers to go after him tbh

[Malik Hairston]

I'm in favor of getting Aldridge if you're only sacrificing Green, but the Aldridge move is not for the post-Duncan era IMO..as BB said, he's going to be 32 and beginning his decline, at that point, not to mention the possibility that Parker could still be killing the Spurs, at that point..

Getting Aldridge is for winning 1 more ring with Duncan during these last 2 years IMO..

[coachmac87]

Fuck the post Duncan era, Aldridge isn't taking this team to titles at age 32 and beyond. Once Duncan retires the Spurs become a lower half of the bracket playoff team at best.

So what do you want or expect post Duncan era?

[baseline bum]

So what do you want or expect post Duncan era?

I expect the Spurs to be a lower tier playoff team until they draft another Duncan or Robinson.

[coachmac87]

I'm in favor of getting Aldridge if you're only sacrificing Green, but the Aldridge move is not for the post-Duncan era IMO..as BB said, he's going to be 32 and beginning his decline, at that point, not to mention the possibility that Parker could still be killing the Spurs, at that point..

Getting Aldridge is for winning 1 more ring with Duncan during these last 2 years IMO..

So you're assuming Duncan will play 2 more years and not 1? You assume Aldridge will be a declined player at 32?

[coachmac87]

I expect the Spurs to be a lower tier playoff team until they draft another Duncan or Robinson.

Without Aldridge that'll be you expectation?

[baseline bum]

I'm in favor of getting Aldridge if you're only sacrificing Green, but the Aldridge move is not for the post-Duncan era IMO..as BB said, he's going to be 32 and beginning his decline, at that point, not to mention the possibility that Parker could still be killing the Spurs, at that point..

Getting Aldridge is for winning 1 more ring with Duncan during these last 2 years IMO..

It's not possible to get Aldridge with only sacrificing Green though. Splitter or Diaw has to go too.

[baseline bum]

Without Aldridge that'll be you expectation?

Yes, with Aldridge maybe a mid tier playoff team.

[DPG21920]

It's not possible to get Aldridge with only sacrificing Green though. Splitter or Diaw has to go too.

Yes it is. Spurs can absolutely get LMA while losing only Green and keeping Spiltter & Diaw. It would require moving Mills and maybe Reggie or Anderson too, but they can do it even at LMA's max. Especially if it's a S&T and even with cap space as long as Tim and Manu go along money wise (6M for Tim, BAE for Manu).

[DPG21920]

I'm in favor of getting Aldridge if you're only sacrificing Green, but the Aldridge move is not for the post-Duncan era IMO..as BB said, he's going to be 32 and beginning his decline, at that point, not to mention the possibility that Parker could still be killing the Spurs, at that point..

Getting Aldridge is for winning 1 more ring with Duncan during these last 2 years IMO..


I mean, I guess if you really want LA and you can't trade Tiago or Boris you let Green walk to get the cap space for LMA, but that seems like having too many bigs compared to guards/wings. I know LMA is worth Danny in a bubble, but damn that would be a gaping hole at SG with no DG.

You have to try and move Tiago or Boris at all costs first.

[coachmac87]

Yes, with Aldridge maybe a mid tier playoff team.

So you're saying instead of a 4 seed with Aldridge and a 5th seed without?

[baseline bum]

Yes it is. Spurs can absolutely get LMA while losing only Green and keeping Spiltter & Diaw. It would require moving Mills and maybe Reggie or Anderson too, but they can do it even at LMA's max. Especially if it's a S&T and even with cap space as long as Tim and Manu go along money wise (6M for Tim, BAE for Manu).

You're completely gutting the backcourt, it'll be Parker and nobody. You have to trade Splitter later on in this case. What guards would you target with Splitter as trade bait?

[baseline bum]

So you're saying instead of a 4 seed with Aldridge and a 5th seed without?

4-5 seed with, 7-8 seed without

[coachmac87]

4-5 seed with, 7-8 seed without

Then you sign LMA.....

[baseline bum]

Then you sign LMA.....

What's your backcourt to try to win a title next year? Parker and Anderson?

[coachmac87]

What's your backcourt to try to win a title next year? Parker and Anderson?

I dunno. I'll trust the Spurs with a big cap to make that choice. But you already said at least a 4th seed...I'll take that.

[DPG21920]

You're completely gutting the backcourt, it'll be Parker and nobody. You have to trade Splitter later on in this case. What guards would you target with Splitter as trade bait?

I agree - I was just saying you don't have to trade Tiago & Danny. Spurs may elect to trade Tiago and let Danny walk to sign LMA and keep payroll down, but they only have to move one to get the salary cap space needed to max out LMA (in addition to Mills or someone).

[TXstbobcat]

I could be wrong but I think Verde is gone even if Spurs don't get LMA. I just don't see the Spurs matching a gigantic offer for Verde.

[coachmac87]

Danny Green is ranked where in SGs when it comes to D/3's? Top 3

Ok. Sign Aldridge and improve your front court and sign a top 15-20 SG D/3's....another role player

[coachmac87]

Somebody post the list of the top D/3 SGs. And which ones are FAs

[coachmac87]

Paul Pierce opted out right?

[TXstbobcat]

Paul Pierce opted out right?

yeah, he opted out so he can sign with the clippers.

[ducks]

Spurs get alridge and he can start here
Paul has more chance for title here then wizards and clippers

[Stand]

It's kind of amazing that people would undervalue a guy who was two minutes away from most likely being the 2013 Finals MVP. What the FO really needs to do here is convince Green that he is a crucial piece to this team going forward and if he'll take an one year undermarket contract then the FO will reward him handsomely next season when the cap explodes.

[TXstbobcat]

It's kind of amazing that people would undervalue a guy who was two minutes away from most likely being the 2013 Finals MVP. What the FO really needs to do here is convince Green that he is a crucial piece to this team going forward and if he'll take an one year undermarket contract then the FO will reward him handsomely next season when the cap explodes.

Verde isn't passing up the opportunity the cash in on a giant payday to give the Spurs a discount.

[tmtcsc]

It's kind of amazing that people would undervalue a guy who was two minutes away from most likely being the 2013 Finals MVP. What the FO really needs to do here is convince Green that he is a crucial piece to this team going forward and if he'll take an one year undermarket contract then the FO will reward him handsomely next season when the cap explodes.

This guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFFvShURQ5k

[tmtcsc]

Here's the one Coach Pop will never forget: Forward to 3:29 mark.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncVxYAsSAko

Danny contests Lebron, watches the 3 miss and then starts to backpedal toward the opposite end of the floor for no apparent reason. Spurs needed to defend and rebound. Meanwhile, James gets a pass from a teammate and nails the three while Green's teammates are scrambling toward him.

[Juan]

Still no word on what Chinook is willing to pay for Danny. do you want to max him out or something? You believe he's worth that? What about 15m/yr. You believe he's worth 15m/yr?

Whats the word.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

This guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFFvShURQ5k

Please, Green made a mistake. But notice Green didn't give Pop ANY ATTITUDE. Imagine someone like JR Smith getting yelled out like that.

Manu committed an even worse foul on Dirk in 2006. Shit like this happens some time. But at least Green is coach able and doesn't give his coach attitude.

[hater]

JR Smith

We need some balls in our team tbqh

[Chinook]

Still no word on what Chinook is willing to pay for Danny. do you want to max him out or something? You believe he's worth that? What about 15m/yr. You believe he's worth 15m/yr?

Whats the word.

I'd be willing to give him a contract with heavy incentives. If he plays like a max player, he deserves to be paid like one. But the base salary would be pretty low in comparison. Probably something like $57.5M/5 with the final year non-guaranteed unless he meets certain goals (all-defense for two years, starts 85 percent of his games over the first four years. The max incentives he'd can get from that deal would kick it up to $68 Million. Also give him a full trade kicker, which would raise the maximum to $79 Million.

I know people are going to see $79M/5 and freak out. But the guaranteed portion of the deal is only about $45 Million. If Danny remains a fixture on the team, he'd get $13 Million more for that final year (when the cap is going to be well over $110 Million, btb). If he starts to collect All-Defensive honors or All-Star bids (or whatever other stringent requirements there are for the incentives), he'd make up to $11 Million more. And if he does all those those thing for another team because the Spurs trade him, then he'd get up to $11 Million on top of all that.

So it sounds good to me. Danny gets top-end role-player money if he's a top-end role-player. If he becomes a part of the foundation, he gets extra security. If he starts to get recognized for his work, he gets lower-tier star money. And he gets to remain a Spur for the next
few years, because there's no way they'd pay that much to move him.

And if he bombs, he becomes a hell of a trade chip in a few years.

[Chinook]

Please, Green made a mistake. But notice Green didn't give Pop ANY ATTITUDE. Imagine someone like JR Smith getting yelled out like that.

Manu committed an even worse foul on Dirk in 2006. Shit like this happens some time. But at least Green is coach able and doesn't give his coach attitude.

Not to mention that Danny was straight carrying the Spurs in that game (20/10/2/2/3) and Manu jacked up a terrible shot instead of passing to a mostly open Green with a chance to win the game. Pop freaking out at Danny looked pretty stupid at that point, honestly.

[tmtcsc]

Please, Green made a mistake. But notice Green didn't give Pop ANY ATTITUDE. Imagine someone like JR Smith getting yelled out like that.

Manu committed an even worse foul on Dirk in 2006. Shit like this happens some time. But at least Green is coach able and doesn't give his coach attitude.

Lol, ask Stephen Jackson what giving Pop attitude will get you. I have a feeling mistakes like this might be a little more common place than we know. This one was blatant and came out of time out I think. How do you not have court awareness at this point?

Would like Danny back in San Antonio but not at the expense of a top-tier talent like Aldridge or Gasol.

[Chinook]

Lol, ask Stephen Jackson what giving Pop attitude will get you. I have a feeling mistakes like this might be a little more common place than we know. This one was blatant and came out of time out I think. How do you not have court awareness at this point?

Would like Danny back in San Antonio but not at the expense of a top-tier talent like Aldridge or Gasol.

It wasn't even a bad play; it's just not what Pop wanted. A lot of coaches would want to foul in that situation. In fact, it worked out for the Spurs because it game the Spurs about 10 more seconds than they would have had otherwise. Spurs would have had six seconds to score if they stopped Brooklyn (game would have been over had the Nets scored). They had 16 seconds to get a three because Green fouled.

[tholdren]

Not to mention that Danny was straight carrying the Spurs in that game (20/10/2/2/3) and Manu jacked up a terrible shot instead of passing to a mostly open Green with a chance to win the game. Pop freaking out at Danny looked pretty stupid at that point, honestly.
I don't think that it looked "stupid." If you're a defensive specialist you have to have a high defensive IQ. That was a shit-the-bed moment that would have gotten a player benched in high school. I'm not sure what he was thinking, especially having the offensive player, who he is and where he is, not even attempting to attack.

Two things I noticed - green was trying to act like he thought he heard someone say foul, NOT TAKING RESPONSIBILITY, and Ime Udoka about as clueless as Green on what to do in that situation.

*then the infamous parker stare *

I do agree with your other post regarding what to give him with incentives. How do incentives work against the cap?

[tholdren]

It wasn't even a bad play; it's just not what Pop wanted. A lot of coaches would want to foul in that situation. In fact, it worked out for the Spurs because it game the Spurs about 10 more seconds than they would have had otherwise. Spurs would have had six seconds to score if they stopped Brooklyn (game would have been over had the Nets scored). They had 16 seconds to get a three because Green fouled.

I whole-heartedly disagree - from a coaches standpoint. You have a guy standing in the corner not even facing up, a foul here is a bail out. I would be interested to see which coach would have said to foul in that exact circumstance.

[Chinook]

I whole-heartedly disagree - from a coaches standpoint. You have a guy standing in the corner not even facing up, a foul here is a bail out. I would be interested to see which coach would have said to foul in that exact circumstance.

The correct play in my mind would have been to play heavy ball pressure with the goal of fouling if the Nets broke it. The Spurs were not very good defensively in that game, and they should not have felt confident in getting a stop when they absolutely needed one. Plus, even if they did, they only had six seconds to come back and score. It was just not very smart.

Again, though, it ended up being a good thing.

[Juan]

I'd be willing to give him a contract with heavy incentives. If he plays like a max player, he deserves to be paid like one. But the base salary would be pretty low in comparison. Probably something like $57.5M/5 with the final year non-guaranteed unless he meets certain goals (all-defense for two years, starts 85 percent of his games over the first four years. The max incentives he'd can get from that deal would kick it up to $68 Million. Also give him a full trade kicker, which would raise the maximum to $79 Million.

I know people are going to see $79M/5 and freak out. But the guaranteed portion of the deal is only about $45 Million. If Danny remains a fixture on the team, he'd get $13 Million more for that final year (when the cap is going to be well over $110 Million, btb). If he starts to collect All-Defensive honors or All-Star bids (or whatever other stringent requirements there are for the incentives), he'd make up to $11 Million more. And if he does all those those thing for another team because the Spurs trade him, then he'd get up to $11 Million on top of all that.

So it sounds good to me. Danny gets top-end role-player money if he's a top-end role-player. If he becomes a part of the foundation, he gets extra security. If he starts to get recognized for his work, he gets lower-tier star money. And he gets to remain a Spur for the next
few years, because there's no way they'd pay that much to move him.

And if he bombs, he becomes a hell of a trade chip in a few years.

Thanks for the response. I value your opinion on this matter. Say the Spurs offer him a straight up 5/57.5M like you mentioned with little incentives and maybe an ETO after the fourth year similar to Leonard (assuming they can grant him that). Do you feel like that would be enough to keep him a Spur?

[Chinook]

I don't think that it looked "stupid." If you're a defensive specialist you have to have a high defensive IQ. That was a shit-the-bed moment that would have gotten a player benched in high school. I'm not sure what he was thinking, especially having the offensive player, who he is and where he is, not even attempting to attack.

Two things I noticed - green was trying to act like he thought he heard someone say foul, NOT TAKING RESPONSIBILITY, and Ime Udoka about as clueless as Green on what to do in that situation.

*then the infamous parker stare *

I do agree with your other post regarding what to give him with incentives. How do incentives work against the cap?

He was trying to force a TO, which is what everyone should have done there. There's no reason why the Nets should have gotten a clean trip up the court. It's entirely possible that Green may well have heard someone call for the foul. It's not like he was staring at the coaches there.

Anyway, incentives come in two forms: likely to be earned and not likely to be earned. The first category initially counts against the cap while the second one doesn't (initially). The determining factor in how an incentive is classified is usually whether a player achieved the goal during the previous season. So something like Green making an All-Defensive team will count as not likely to be earned. But if Danny gets that honor, then it shifts to likely to be earned for the next season. If a player earns a not likely to be earned incentive, then the team loses that much cap space the following season. And if the player fails to meet a likely to be earned incentive, then the team gets a credit for that much cap space the following season.

Make sense?

[Richie]

It wasn't even a bad play; it's just not what Pop wanted. A lot of coaches would want to foul in that situation. In fact, it worked out for the Spurs because it game the Spurs about 10 more seconds than they would have had otherwise. Spurs would have had six seconds to score if they stopped Brooklyn (game would have been over had the Nets scored). They had 16 seconds to get a three because Green fouled.

Nobody would foul in that situation. If you're going to foul, you foul quickly. Once that much time has already gone you have to let it play out. It's much, much more likely that they will hit 2 free throws than score a field goal in that situation.

[Chinook]

Thanks for the response. I value your opinion on this matter. Say the Spurs offer him a straight up 5/57.5M like you mentioned with little incentives and maybe an ETO after the fourth year similar to Leonard (assuming they can grant him that). Do you feel like that would be enough to keep him a Spur?

I think that'll be a better offer than he's going to get elsewhere, so yes. I might add in a trade kicker to seal the deal, though.

[tmtcsc]

It wasn't even a bad play; it's just not what Pop wanted.

Maybe that's what Green was trying to explain before Pop told him to STFU. And if you think Pop looked stupid freaking out, you can add Duncan and the other coaches to that list.

[Chinook]

Nobody would foul in that situation. If you're going to foul, you foul quickly. Once that much time has already gone you have to let it play out. It's much, much more likely that they will hit 2 free throws than score a field goal in that situation.

Not really, when you look at that game. The Nets were scoring at will. You're right that teams don't want to let seconds run off the clock before fouling. The right play, as I mentioned, would have been for them to pressure the ball and try to force a TO.

[Chinook]

Maybe that's what Green was trying to explain before Pop told him to STFU. And if you think Pop looked stupid freaking out, you can add Duncan and the other coaches to that list.

Pop looked stupid for acting like Green lost them the game when he was the only reason why they were in it. He looked even more stupid when the Spurs ended up forcing a turnover the next play doing what they should have done on the play before.

[SpursFan86]

I'd be willing to give him a contract with heavy incentives. If he plays like a max player, he deserves to be paid like one. But the base salary would be pretty low in comparison. Probably something like $57.5M/5 with the final year non-guaranteed unless he meets certain goals (all-defense for two years, starts 85 percent of his games over the first four years. The max incentives he'd can get from that deal would kick it up to $68 Million. Also give him a full trade kicker, which would raise the maximum to $79 Million.

I know people are going to see $79M/5 and freak out. But the guaranteed portion of the deal is only about $45 Million. If Danny remains a fixture on the team, he'd get $13 Million more for that final year (when the cap is going to be well over $110 Million, btb). If he starts to collect All-Defensive honors or All-Star bids (or whatever other stringent requirements there are for the incentives), he'd make up to $11 Million more. And if he does all those those thing for another team because the Spurs trade him, then he'd get up to $11 Million on top of all that.

So it sounds good to me. Danny gets top-end role-player money if he's a top-end role-player. If he becomes a part of the foundation, he gets extra security. If he starts to get recognized for his work, he gets lower-tier star money. And he gets to remain a Spur for the next
few years, because there's no way they'd pay that much to move him.

And if he bombs, he becomes a hell of a trade chip in a few years.

How do incentives work when it comes to cap holds? Would the cap hold just be for the guaranteed amount, or the max amount he could possibly get?

[spurraider21]

Um, really? Name a SG in this league that can shut down the best PGs in this league while shooting over 40% from 3 in the playoffs. smh.
this is a bit overstated imo

[Chinook]

How do incentives work when it comes to cap holds? Would the cap hold just be for the guaranteed amount, or the max amount he could possibly get?

I answered the first question a little further upthread. The second question is that neither amount would could against the cap as far as holds go. Only Green's $7.6 Million hold counts until at least July 10.

[tmtcsc]

Nobody would foul in that situation. If you're going to foul, you foul quickly. Once that much time has already gone you have to let it play out. It's much, much more likely that they will hit 2 free throws than score a field goal in that situation.

They had a foul to give which means even more time would have gone off the clock pending a successful inbounds on the next play. Luckily, the Nets blew the inbounds play in true Spurs fashion and the Spurs got the ball back. The ends did not justify the means.

Green was on fire offensively but it was another end of game situation where he had his head up his ass. His game 6 in the 2013 Finals where he didn't stick with Lebron seems pretty ingrained in Pop's memory. He is a terrific defender and 3 point shooter but he's not worth passing up on an All-Star player.

I'm confident the Spurs will find a replacement who can give them solid defense. He won't be as good as Green but maybe he won't have to be. If he leaves, its not the end of the world. I also don't think he'll duplicate his success somewhere else. He can't create his own shot or take anyone off the dribble on offense. Where ever he goes, he better get wide open looks.

He's been solid but he's definitely benefited from playing in San Antonio as much as they've benefited from having him.

[look_at_g_shred]

How many times does this need to be reiterated???.... With Danny, it's not about his shot :lol so much more than that. It's the rebounds ( I know he had a career best one night this season on the boards), deflections, transition D, blocks... sometimes it doesn't even show up on the stat sheet ( cliche but needs to be said)

[Richie]

I'd be willing to give him a contract with heavy incentives. If he plays like a max player, he deserves to be paid like one. But the base salary would be pretty low in comparison. Probably something like $57.5M/5 with the final year non-guaranteed unless he meets certain goals (all-defense for two years, starts 85 percent of his games over the first four years. The max incentives he'd can get from that deal would kick it up to $68 Million. Also give him a full trade kicker, which would raise the maximum to $79 Million.

I know people are going to see $79M/5 and freak out. But the guaranteed portion of the deal is only about $45 Million. If Danny remains a fixture on the team, he'd get $13 Million more for that final year (when the cap is going to be well over $110 Million, btb). If he starts to collect All-Defensive honors or All-Star bids (or whatever other stringent requirements there are for the incentives), he'd make up to $11 Million more. And if he does all those those thing for another team because the Spurs trade him, then he'd get up to $11 Million on top of all that.

So it sounds good to me. Danny gets top-end role-player money if he's a top-end role-player. If he becomes a part of the foundation, he gets extra security. If he starts to get recognized for his work, he gets lower-tier star money. And he gets to remain a Spur for the next
few years, because there's no way they'd pay that much to move him.

And if he bombs, he becomes a hell of a trade chip in a few years.

He will definitely not be a trade chip if he's got a 15% trade kicker, he'd only get traded if he becomes Richard Jefferson levels of useless and then we'd have to pay to get rid of him. Expiring contracts aren't worth much in the modern NBA.

5 years is also way too long for a player as limited as Danny. He's only good at two things, defense and spot up 3's, and it'd only take one injury for him to become unplayable by losing one of those things. It's not like he's some kind of great talent who would be able to remodel his game.

I think $48m/4yr is fair, possibly with the last year partially guaranteed. All defensive incentives aren't a bad idea but I most definitely wouldn't put in any kind of trade kicker. The main thing I want to see is a decreasing contract which keeps him more valuable as a trade asset and squeezes out a little extra cap room when the cap jumps. Something like 13.5/12.5/11.5/10.5 would be a nice, future cap friendly deal.

[spurraider21]

Being an All-Star means nothing. Watching Tim then, it would be hard to believe he'd still be an All-Star --caliber player now. Parker was obviously in him prime. No argument there. Manu was coming off an injury by probably had his last truly great season in 09-10. Bogans might have seen some minutes at the three, but Jefferson was a fixture at the three.
manu's 10-11 season was one of his very best, though. that year, it really was Manu's team tbh

[Richie]

Not really, when you look at that game. The Nets were scoring at will. You're right that teams don't want to let seconds run off the clock before fouling. The right play, as I mentioned, would have been for them to pressure the ball and try to force a TO.

I'm not too sure about that. Full court pressure to force a turnover can often end up in a dunk the other way, it's a big gamble when you're only down 2. Sometimes you just have to rely on your half court defence and if they beat you then you didn't deserve to win.

[tmtcsc]

Pop looked stupid for acting like Green lost them the game when he was the only reason why they were in it. He looked even more stupid when the Spurs ended up forcing a turnover the next play doing what they should have done on the play before.

What? Pop was incensed that Green made a bone-headed move AND DIDN'T LISTEN TO HIM. It wasn't even a mistake. A mistake implies he didn't mean to do it. As for his offense, Green did his job by making 3's to keep the Spurs in the game - but his baskets were the culmination of the rest of his teammates getting him the ball. Green wasn't carrying the Spurs by any means.