Pounding the Rock: Free Agency Primer, By Jesus Gomez

[raybies]

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2015/6/27/8857289/san-antonio-spurs-free-agency-primer


If they renounce Green and trade Splitter instead of Mils and Anderson, they would have $42,045,033 on the books. That's enough room to add Aldridge for the max while leaving four million in cap room and the room exception available to round out the roster.

I like the above mentioned scenario. Who could we get with 4 mill per?


Solid work here.

[Russ]

Great, no Green and Splitter.

Why not just punt the other 60% of the lineup to get Lamarcus Aldridge (who probably won't come anyway).

[raybies]

Great, no Green and Splitter.

Well we would gut the roster in other scenarios. I would like to keep Splitter/ Green but it's gonna be hard.

[Dverde]

I like Green but you can't spend more than 8M per to keep him.

[Chinook]

God, PtR is freaking horrible. The max for Aldridge isn't $20.1 Million -- it's $18.9 Million. I wouldn't be a huge stickler about them not knowing that the BRI for a max contract is 94 percent of the cap's BRI, but this is a site where people get paid to know this stuff, and it should only take one off-season for someone who gets paid to cover the NBA to know that.

Anyway, the solution they propose is stupid. You don't lose Green for less than a million bucks of difference. If LMA is seriously like, "Nope, I want that extra million even if it costs you a rotation player," you kindly give him the middle finger and move on.

[benefactor]

Did not read. Chinook basically confirmed my what I already knew about PTC.

[TD 21]

God, PtR is freaking horrible. The max for Aldridge isn't $20.1 Million -- it's $18.9 Million. I wouldn't be a huge stickler about them not knowing that the BRI for a max contract is 94 percent of the cap's BRI, but this is a site where people get paid to know this stuff, and it should only take one off-season for someone who gets paid to cover the NBA to know that.

Anyway, the solution they propose is stupid. You don't lose Green for less than a million bucks of difference. If LMA is seriously like, "Nope, I want that extra million even if it costs you a rotation player," you kindly give him the middle finger and move on.

I agree that you don't lose Green over a relatively miniscule difference, but you also don't lose Aldridge over it. And no one should think for a second that he'd accept a penny less than the max.

I don't see them moving Anderson, but he'd be an option in this scenario, as would Mills. As I've told you, as much as I'd hate to do it, he's the last resort. If it absolutely has to be done, so be it.

The priority needs to be a top 7 as follows: Duncan, Aldridge, Leonard, Green, Parker, Ginobili, Diaw. That's the group that can contend next season and potentially beyond, depending on Duncan's and Ginobili's replacements.

All this talk about the depth is nonsense. Sure, you'd rather have, for example, Mills, Belinelli, Teletovic and Baynes, instead of Larkin, Jenkins, Bonner and Ayres, but that can't be priority over any of those seven.

[TXstbobcat]

I like Green but you can't spend more than 8M per to keep him.

that isn't even close to what he will be offered by other teams. This is his only chance to get a giant contract and verde isn't giving a hometown discount to the Spurs.

[Russ]

The priority needs to be a top 7 as follows: Duncan, Aldridge, Leonard, Green, Parker, Ginobili, Diaw. That's the group that can contend next season and potentially beyond, depending on Duncan's and Ginobili's replacements.

Sounds pretty good to me.

[jeebus]

Clicked link, ran a search for Ayres, only one mention. PTC is slacking on their ball gargling of him.

[raybies]

God, PtR is freaking horrible. The max for Aldridge isn't $20.1 Million -- it's $18.9 Million. I wouldn't be a huge stickler about them not knowing that the BRI for a max contract is 94 percent of the cap's BRI, but this is a site where people get paid to know this stuff, and it should only take one off-season for someone who gets paid to cover the NBA to know that.

Anyway, the solution they propose is stupid. You don't lose Green for less than a million bucks of difference. If LMA is seriously like, "Nope, I want that extra million even if it costs you a rotation player," you kindly give him the middle finger and move on.

You need to be a writer man.

[Vic Petro]

I like Green but you can't spend more than 8M per to keep him.

That's really low. For me the magic number with Danny would be around $12m. I'd do 3/$36m to keep him. Or 4/$44m. But 4+ years at $12m+ per is where I'd have to back off.

[BillMc]

If they were to sign Manu at the room exception, 2.8 million according to the article, could they do a second year that is significantly higher with a player option and a 50% guarantee? How much could Manu get for playing 1 year but being paid over 2 years?

[BatManu20]

Pounding the Rock is trash. I follow their writers on Twitter, and they are rarely right about anything.

The other night during the draft, they kept tweeting at each other which American player they thought we were going to pick. They had zero idea that we were going draft-and-stash, when it was pretty obvious. They haven't a clue. They're just fans who like to speculate, it seems.

[Agloco]

I like Green but you can't spend more than 8M per to keep him.

If that's what you think then get ready for life after Verde

[Chinook]

If they were to sign Manu at the room exception, 2.8 million according to the article, could they do a second year that is significantly higher with a player option and a 50% guarantee? How much could Manu get for playing 1 year but being paid over 2 years?

Nope. They can only sign him to both years of the room exception with the understanding he's only play one. Manu could get almost $6 Million that way.

[BillMc]

Nope. They can only sign him to both years of the room exception with the understanding he's only play one. Manu could get almost $6 Million that way.

Thanks. So even if he were to retire, he'd get the second year salary?

[DPG21920]

Thanks. So even if he were to retire, he'd get the second year salary?

That is correct. That's the trick. It's a 1 year deal under the guise of 2 years.

[BillMc]

That is correct. That's the trick. It's a 1 year deal under the guise of 2 years.

Thanks. Seems like a good way to do it if Manu plays along. Of course, it wouldn't be so good for him if he decides to play 2 more years, but that seems unlikely.

[DPG21920]

Thanks. Seems like a good way to do it if Manu plays along. Of course, it wouldn't be so good for him if he decides to play 2 more years, but that seems unlikely.

Either way he's protected unless he feels he's worth 6M a year and wants to keep playing.

[HI-FI]

Are a lot of the ex-SpursTalkers posting over there at PoundingThe_ock? Obviously this place is a shithole but I still haven't checked PTR out much.

[DPG21920]

God, PtR is freaking horrible. The max for Aldridge isn't $20.1 Million -- it's $18.9 Million. I wouldn't be a huge stickler about them not knowing that the BRI for a max contract is 94 percent of the cap's BRI, but this is a site where people get paid to know this stuff, and it should only take one off-season for someone who gets paid to cover the NBA to know that.

Anyway, the solution they propose is stupid. You don't lose Green for less than a million bucks of difference. If LMA is seriously like, "Nope, I want that extra million even if it costs you a rotation player," you kindly give him the middle finger and move on.

If you don't mind can you break down the 3 Maxes for LMA (If he resigns with POR, if Spurs use straight cap space & if Spurs obtain him through a S&T).

I know the BRI calculation you refer to stems from this part of the CBA:


They use a different cap calculation to determine the maximum salaries, which is based on 42.14% of projected BRI rather than 44.74%. In 2005 the sides negotiated a different formula for setting the salary cap but not maximum salaries, so the two became decoupled, and this continued in the 2011 agreement. For this reason the maximum salaries are not actually 25%, 30% or 35% of the cap, and instead are a slightly lower amount. For example, even though the salary cap for 2011-12 is $58.044 million and 25% of this amount is $14.511 million, the 0-6 year maximum salary is actually $12,922,194. In addition, for 2012-13 a 5.8% increase in maximum salaries was agreed to, even though the salary cap stayed the same as 2011-12.

But I am getting lost on some of the math & what part of the CBA it's coming from on all scenarios. Thanks in advance.

[Chinook]

If you don't mind can you break down the 3 Maxes for LMA (If he resigns with POR, if Spurs use straight cap space & if Spurs obtain him through a S&T).

I know the BRI calculation you refer to stems from this part of the CBA:

But I am getting lost on some of the math & what part of the CBA it's coming from on all scenarios. Thanks in advance.

There's only one max a player is eligible for (for the most part; extensions can make a slightly higher max). The only difference is the raises players are eligible for. The only thing that the BRI matters for (that we care about at least) is determining to two "caps": the regular salary cap and the "cap" that is used to determine max salaries. The second cap is about 94 percent the size of the first, so when determining max salaries, you just need to take the cap, multiply it by the percentage eligible and then multiply that by .94.

So Leonard is eligible for 25 percent of the cap for a max contract next season. So you take the $67.1 Million, multiply that by .25, then multiply it again by .94. That gives you ~ $15.75 Million. A full five-year max for Kawhi is $15.75 Million multiplied by 5.75, which equals roughly $90.7 Million.

[DPG21920]

There's only one max a player is eligible for (for the most part; extensions can make a slightly higher max). The only difference is the raises players are eligible for. The only thing that the BRI matters for (that we care about at least) is determining to two "caps": the regular salary cap and the "cap" that is used to determine max salaries. The second cap is about 94 percent the size of the first, so when determining max salaries, you just need to take the cap, multiply it by the percentage eligible and then multiply that by .94.

So Leonard is eligible for 25 percent of the cap for a max contract next season. So you take the $67.1 Million, multiply that by .25, then multiply it again by .94. That gives you ~ $15.75 Million. A full five-year max for Kawhi is $15.75 Million multiplied by 5.75, which equals roughly $90.7 Million.

Awesome, thanks. I think I was just mis-using terminology. I know there is really one max, but is the main difference in the amount in year 1 the same across all 3 scenarios for LMA?? I thought it was 3 different YR1 amounts depending on what he took (Stay with POR, Sign with SA in FA which would be 18.9M in year 1 or get to SA in a S&T)?

Is it 18.9M in YR1 for LMA in all 3 of those scenarios with the only difference being the 5 years vs 4 years and 7.5% raises vs 4.5%?

[Chinook]

Awesome, thanks. I think I was just mis-using terminology. I know there is really one max, but is the main difference in the amount in year 1 the same across all 3 scenarios for LMA?? I thought it was 3 different YR1 amounts depending on what he took (Stay with POR, Sign with SA in FA which would be 18.9M in year 1 or get to SA in a S&T)?

Is it 18.9M in YR1 for LMA in all 3 of those scenarios with the only difference being the 5 years vs 4 years and 7.5% raises vs 4.5%?

Yes. If Aldridge makes less than that it will be because he takes less, maybe to fit the cap space the Spurs can generate.

As I mentioned, there's only one max number for each player, but extensions allow them to get paid more than their max. Every max player is guaranteed a five-percent increase over their previous salary when they become a free agent, whether they re-sign or sign with a different team. But Bird extensions allow a player to get a 7.5-percent raise. So a couple of years ago, Howard's max first-year salary on a new contract was the same whether he re-signed with LA or had gone with Houston. But had he extended with the Lakers, he would have made a bit more.

[DPG21920]

Yes. If Aldridge makes less than that it will be because he takes less, maybe to fit the cap space the Spurs can generate.

As I mentioned, there's only one max number for each player, but extensions allow them to get paid more than their max. Every max player is guaranteed a five-percent increase over their previous salary when they become a free agent, whether they re-sign or sign with a different team. But Bird extensions allow a player to get a 7.5-percent raise. So a couple of years ago, Howard's max first-year salary on a new contract was the same whether he re-signed with LA or had gone with Houston. But had he extended with the Lakers, he would have made a bit more.

Appreciate it. I don't know why I thought LMA could make more money doing a S&T vs signing in FA outright.

[Nathan89]

Parker's contract ruining the team's depth. POS.

[tholdren]

God, PtR is freaking horrible. The max for Aldridge isn't $20.1 Million -- it's $18.9 Million. I wouldn't be a huge stickler about them not knowing that the BRI for a max contract is 94 percent of the cap's BRI, but this is a site where people get paid to know this stuff, and it should only take one off-season for someone who gets paid to cover the NBA to know that.

Anyway, the solution they propose is stupid. You don't lose Green for less than a million bucks of difference. If LMA is seriously like, "Nope, I want that extra million even if it costs you a rotation player," you kindly give him the middle finger and move on.

Yes! finally. I usually get shat on when having an oft different opinion than chinook. Glad to see he can finally come around and post some intelligence = PTR = sucks my balls

[Uriel]

If our dream scenario comes into fruition, our depth chart would look something like this:

C - Duncan
PF - Aldridge, Diaw
SF - Leonard, Anderson
SG - Green, Ginobili
PG - Parker, Mills

How likely is it that we can bring back Joseph, Baynes, Bonner, and Ayres on minimum contracts to fill out the rest of the roster?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

If LMA comes to the Spurs via sign-and-trade, does he get the full 5-year max or the 4-year max?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

If our dream scenario comes into fruition, our depth chart would look something like this:

C - Duncan
PF - Aldridge, Diaw
SF - Leonard, Anderson
SG - Green, Ginobili
PG - Parker, Mills

How likely is it that we can bring back Joseph, Baynes, Bonner, and Ayres on minimum contracts to fill out the rest of the roster?

Bonner yeah, fuck Ayres, and Cory and Baynes probably make a bit above the minimum from a different team. I wouldn't mind fielding that roster plus a couple prospects, like Hanga, LJC or Cady. Is Reggie Williams still on the roster?

[Uriel]

Bonner yeah, fuck Ayres, and Cory and Baynes probably make a bit above the minimum from a different team. I wouldn't mind fielding that roster plus a couple prospects, like Hanga, LJC or Cady. Is Reggie Williams still on the roster?
Reggie Williams has a fully non guaranteed contract for next season. I highly doubt the Spurs will choose to guarantee it, though.

How are we so sure that Baynes and CoJo will command attention in the open market? And if we're trying to establish continuity and maintain depth, wouldn't it be best to bring back as much of the supporting cast from last season's squad as we possibly can? Better than filling out of the rest of the roster with warm bodies.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Reggie Williams has a fully non guaranteed contract for next season. I highly doubt the Spurs will choose to guarantee it, though.

How are we so sure that Baynes and CoJo will command attention in the open market? And if we're trying to establish continuity and maintain depth, wouldn't it be best to bring back as much of the supporting cast from last season's squad as we possibly can? Better than filling out of the rest of the roster with warm bodies.

Maybe Baynes will come back on a minimum deal, but I think Cory showed enough in his limited time the past couple seasons to prove to other teams that all he needs is a chance for more playing time. I'd jump all over a return for the minimum, but I think other teams noticed his potential as a quality backup or even capable starter.

[snickles]

Appreciate it. I don't know why I thought LMA could make more money doing a S&T vs signing in FA outright.

i thought this was correct as well, unless it was one of the rules changed in the last CBA.

i'm pretty sure in the old CBA you could sign and trade to get the extra year / higher raises.


EDIT:

yep it was changed in the last CBA

Sign and trade contracts are reduced to a maximum of 4 years, with 4.5% percent raises. These are the years and raises used for non-bird players. In the past CBA, you could give the player maximum raises for maximum years if you had their bird rights, which would be 7.5% raises over 5 years in the current CBA.



http://www.libertyballers.com/2013/7/2/4485996/sign-and-trades-under-the-new-cba-and-how-they-affect-andrew-bynum