A Look at the Updated Cap Space

[024]

The Spurs salary dumping Splitter just dramatically increased the possibility of the Spurs signing Aldridge. This thread can be used to hash out the cap numbers and provide clarity on the Spurs' position.

Current projected cap: 67.1 million w/ possible $1-2 million extra

Tony Parker 13,437,500
Boris Diaw 7,500,000
Patty Mills 3,578,947
Kyle Anderson 1,142,800
Tim Duncan 6,000,000 (rumored re-sign)
Danny Green 7,647,500 (cap hold)
Kawhi Leonard 7,235,148 (cap hold)
Min Hold 525,093
Min Hold 525,093
Min Hold 525,093
Min Hold 525,093
Min Hold 525,093

Total: 49,167,360
Room Available: 17,932,640
Aldridge max: 18,830,000

Cory Joseph 5,058,153 (QO)
Manu Ginobili room exception?

Notes:


Not entirely sure why the Spurs extended a QO to Joseph since that is a huge amount of cap space. I think they can always just renounce him to make room for Aldrdige.
Ginobili will need to be renounced and come back for a room exception if he does not retire. Ginobili really needs to come back to make this roster championship-level.
Spurs are going to be short even after renouncing Ginobili and re-signing Duncan to a very discounted contract. The Spurs might have to give up Mills or miraculously find a way to dump Anderson. I don't want the Spurs to give up Mills... rather try to get Aldridge to take a small pay cut.
If the cap does increase $1-2 million, the min cap holds and Aldridge's max will increase as well won't they? I don't know if the cap increasing will help much if at all. Sportswriters are saying it will help so I will assume they are correct. If it does rise, then Aldridge might not need to take a discount.


I am not entirely sure how accurate these numbers are since I got them through a variety of sources.

[Darius Bieber]

From what I remember, Aldridge and Mills were good friends when Mills was up in Portland a few years ago. Maybe it would be enough to get LMA to take a small pay cut to keep Mills.

[timvp]

Duncan, being the badass that he is, would probably massage his salary as needed to make the puzzle pieces fit.

[Chinook]

The Spurs salary dumping Splitter just dramatically increased the possibility of the Spurs signing Aldridge. This thread can be used to hash out the cap numbers and provide clarity on the Spurs' position.

Current projected cap: 67.1 million w/ possible $1-2 million extra

Tony Parker 13,437,500
Boris Diaw 7,500,000
Patty Mills 3,578,947
Kyle Anderson 1,142,800
Tim Duncan 6,000,000 (rumored re-sign)
Danny Green 7,647,500 (cap hold)
Kawhi Leonard 7,235,148 (cap hold)
Min Hold 525,093
Min Hold 525,093
Min Hold 525,093
Min Hold 525,093
Min Hold 525,093

Total: 49,167,360
Room Available: 17,932,640
Aldridge max: 18,830,000

Cory Joseph 5,058,153 (QO)
Manu Ginobili room exception?

Notes:


Not entirely sure why the Spurs extended a QO to Joseph since that is a huge amount of cap space. I think they can always just renounce him to make room for Aldrdige.
Ginobili will need to be renounced and come back for a room exception if he does not retire. Ginobili really needs to come back to make this roster championship-level.
Spurs are going to be short even after renouncing Ginobili and re-signing Duncan to a very discounted contract. The Spurs might have to give up Mills or miraculously find a way to dump Anderson. I don't want the Spurs to give up Mills... rather try to get Aldridge to take a small pay cut.
If the cap does increase $1-2 million, the min cap holds and Aldridge's max will increase as well won't they? I don't know if the cap increasing will help much if at all. Sportswriters are saying it will help so I will assume they are correct. If it does rise, then Aldridge might not need to take a discount.


I am not entirely sure how accurate these numbers are since I got them through a variety of sources.

Thanks for putting this together. Really helps to have something updated for us to look at.

Anyway, it really comes down to how much Tim is taking. He can totally make the room for LMA himself. He can make the room for Cory AND LMA himself if he takes the min. We'll have to see.

[slick'81]

There's no doubt Duncan and Gino will take what's left to make this work what great teammates

[024]

Another thing I wonder is what is the Spurs' plan B? They seemed to have salary dumped Splitter pretty quickly. At first I thought the Spurs already received something of a commitment but Aldridge still seems to be considering more money with the Blazers. And then also the Spurs extended a QO to Joseph... so they definitely don't have a commitment yet. Who are the Spurs going to get with the extra space if Aldridge doesn't jump ship?

[Malik Hairston]

Tim taking a miniscule salary will probably generate dozens of salad-tossing articles from the media for the next few weeks, tbh, especially if the Lakers don't acquire a marquee free agent:lol..

[slick'81]

Another thing I wonder is what is the Spurs' plan B? They seemed to have salary dumped Splitter pretty quickly. At first I thought the Spurs already received something of a commitment but Aldridge still seems to be considering more money with the Blazers. And then also the Spurs extended a QO to Joseph... so they definitely don't have a commitment yet. Who are the Spurs going to get with the extra space if Aldridge doesn't jump ship?

If lma doesn't come it's strange indeed

[024]

There's no doubt Duncan and Gino will take what's left to make this work what great teammates
In this scenario Gino's cap hold is at 0 because the Spurs have to renounce him. And Duncan is taking a significant pay cut. I honestly don't want Duncan to take any less. Other players should be taking the pay cut.

[Rev Hill]

...and then does it come down to filling out the roster with vet's signed to league minimum contracts (such as LeBron's standard entourage...the Miller's, Marion's, Jones) and/or signing your own FA's to similar deals as they had before?

Ex. the Boozer rumor = league minimum (provided he stays clear of the hair paint can)

[Beaverfuzz]

RIP Gino.

[baseline bum]

Not entirely sure why the Spurs extended a QO to Joseph since that is a huge amount of cap space. I think they can always just renounce him to make room for

Joseph can't accept that deal until the 9th, and by then the Spurs can renounce him if they're not using him in a sign and trade. Also the actual cap is thought to be $1 million to $2 million higher than $67.1 million projection.

[024]

...and then does it come down to filling out the roster with vet's signed to league minimum contracts (such as LeBron's standard entourage...the Miller's, Marion's, Jones) and/or signing your own FA's to similar deals as they had before?

Ex. the Boozer rumor = league minimum (provided he stays clear of the hair paint can)
Best case scenario: re-sign Ginobili with room exception, Bonner returns for min and that will be 10/12 spots filled. The Spurs can fill the other 2 spots with a vet big and vet wing. The Spurs will then have a Duncan/Aldridge/Leonard/Green/Parker starting 5 with Ginobili, Diaw, Mills, Bonner, Anderson + 2 min contracts coming off the bench. That at least starts to look championship worthy.

[jhfenton]

Isn't Diaw at $7.0MM?

And what's your source on Joseph's QO? I had it at $3,034,891.

[spurnash]

Can the spurs let Duncan go, and re-sign him using the MLE? (Similar to the suggestion that they do this with Manu using the Room Mid-level exception)

[jyra]

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/
(http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/)
It's the cap hold for the QO, not the actual number of the QO.

[jhfenton]

Can the spurs let Duncan go, and re-sign him using the MLE? (Similar to the suggestion that they do this with Manu using the Room Mid-level exception)
No. If you use cap room, you don't have the MLE. You have the Room exception instead.

[Brazil]

Joseph can't accept that deal until the 9th, and by then the Spurs can renounce him if they're not using him in a sign and trade. Also the actual cap is thought to be $1 million to $2 million higher than $67.1 million projection.

this cap projection increase would be a great news to give Spurs flexibility to not give up Paty / Cory

[baseline bum]

this cap projection increase would be a great news to give Spurs flexibility to not give up Paty / Cory

They can't keep Joseph if they get Aldridge, I can't see any way to make the numbers work short of Duncan taking minimum or the exception everyone is penciling in for Ginobili right now. Portland will probably want him in sign and trade if the Spurs can get a commitment from Aldridge, and it would be doing CoJo a solid to let him get 7.5% raises in Portland as opposed to renouncing him and the Blazers being able to only offer 4.5% raises.

[jhfenton]

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/
(http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/)
It's the cap hold for the QO, not the actual number of the QO.
Thanks. I forgot that this particular 250% rule applies instead of the QO.

It probably doesn't matter, though. Neither number will probably apply if the Spurs are getting LMA.

[Chinook]

They can't keep Joseph if they get Aldridge, I can't see any way to make the numbers work short of Duncan taking minimum or the exception everyone is penciling in for Ginobili right now. Portland will probably want him in sign and trade if the Spurs can get a commitment from Aldridge, and it would be doing CoJo a solid to let him get 7.5% raises in Portland as opposed to renouncing him and the Blazers being able to only offer 4.5% raises.

You don't get the raises in S&Ts either. Anyway, since the Spurs know Tim's not going anywhere, they can totally sit on Cory's deal for a while and see what happens. Maybe Tim really is fine with the min, in which case, the Spurs have a ton of leverage.

[Brazil]

They can't keep Joseph if they get Aldridge, I can't see any way to make the numbers work short of Duncan taking minimum or the exception everyone is penciling in for Ginobili right now. Portland will probably want him in sign and trade if the Spurs can get a commitment from Aldridge, and it would be doing CoJo a solid to let him get 7.5% raises in Portland as opposed to renouncing him and the Blazers being able to only offer 4.5% raises.

I think it will depend on how Tim's new contract will be structured but yes most likely scenario Cory is gone, this cap increase would be tho a good news to keep Paty and or both depending on Tim

[Brazil]

You don't get the raises in S&Ts either. Anyway, since the Spurs know Tim's not going anywhere, they can totally sit on Cory's deal for a while and see what happens. Maybe Tim really is fine with the min, in which case, the Spurs have a ton of leverage.

the better version of what I'm saying :lol

[Mal]

Holt should pay tax this year.

[ceperez]

Holt should pay tax this year.

yup... what ever duncan and ginobili makes... should be paid also in luxury taxes.

[cjw]

You don't get the raises in S&Ts either.

Not only that, but the difference between 4.5% and 7.5% raises are insignificant for a guy who isn't making max money. Starting at $5mm year 1, the difference is under $1mm over a four year deal ($22.365 vs. $21.390 million). You'd essentially be able to bridge the difference by offering $5.2mm instead in year 1 ... only matters if trying to squeeze in under cap.

Would make a difference though if teams are planning on giving him the full MLE.

[024]

this cap projection increase would be a great news to give Spurs flexibility to not give up Paty / Cory
Cory is pretty much a goner if the Spurs want Aldridge. Patty can yet be saved.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Cory is pretty much a goner if the Spurs want Aldridge. Patty can yet be saved.

They still have the MLE. It's not over at Aldridge. Patty isn't going anywhere.

[Raven]

if i'm correct, we can match cojo's offer and go over the cap with it, so he's not really relevant in the LA discussion.

[024]

They still have the MLE. It's not over at Aldridge. Patty isn't going anywhere.
I am assuming the room exception will be used on Manu. Don't know if it will go to Joseph since the room exception is like $2-3 million. Joseph can get more than that. Rather have Manu back anyways.

If you are thinking about the full MLE, that is not available to teams under the cap.

[024]

if i'm correct, we can match cojo's offer and go over the cap with it, so he's not really relevant in the LA discussion.
No, right now Joseph's cap hold is at $5 million. He must be renounced to make room for a LMA max. One his rights are renounced, Joseph will be a free agent and the Spurs will have no cap space to re-sign him.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I am assuming the room exception will be used on Manu. Don't know if it will go to Joseph since the room exception is like $2-3 million. Joseph can get more than that. Rather have Manu back anyways.

If you are thinking about the full MLE, that is not available to teams under the cap.

Room exception is not the MLE. That report has Manu signing for $2.8m. MLE was pushing $6m last year.

[024]

Room exception is not the MLE. That report has Manu signing for $2.8m. MLE was pushing $6m last year.

If you are thinking about the full MLE, that is not available to teams under the cap.

[Mel_13]

if i'm correct, we can match cojo's offer and go over the cap with it, so he's not really relevant in the LA discussion.

Nope. They're going to have to renounce Joseph to sign Aldridge with cap space. (Unless Tim plays for the minimum.)

[AFBlue]

What if they trade Mills? Could they keep Joseph then?

[BackHome]

Why would you want CoJo over Mills?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And if they do not use the room exception then the MLE becomes available when they sign aldridge and go over the cap.


NON-TAXPAYER MID-LEVEL EXCEPTION -- This exception is available only when a team is below the "apron" (i.e., not paying luxury tax, or less than $4 million above the tax line). This determination is made after the exception is used, so a team below the apron cannot use this exception if doing so takes it above the apron. It cannot be used by a team that has already used the Taxpayer Mid-Level Exception or the Room Mid-Level exception. It allows a team to sign any free agent to a contract with a starting salary up to the following amounts.

They should be able to push it up near the apron if they want.

[FireMicoHalili]

plot twist: They don't let the cap jump next year :downspin:

[Mel_13]

And if they do not use the room exception then the MLE becomes available when they sign aldridge and go over the cap.



They should be able to push it up near the apron if they want.

Nope. It's very simple. In order for a team to use cap space to sign free agents, they lose the MLE. It doesn't matter if they subsequently go over the cap. In one NBA year, a team can use cap space or the MLE. Never both.

[024]

And if they do not use the room exception then the MLE becomes available when they sign aldridge and go over the cap.
Do you have a source for that? What you quoted is not relevant.

The MLE is only available for teams over the cap. As it stands, the Spurs are under the cap because they will use cap space to outright sign Aldridge. Therefore the Spurs only get the room exception. No articles I've read have the Spurs getting this full MLE. It makes sense, a team can't sign big name free agents and still have the full MLE to work with afterwards.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Do you have a source for that? What you quoted is not relevant.

The MLE is only available for teams over the cap. As it stands, the Spurs are under the cap because they will use cap space to outright sign Aldridge. Therefore the Spurs only get the room exception. No articles I've read have the Spurs getting this full MLE. It makes sense, a team can't sign big name free agents and still have the full MLE to work with afterwards.

And the determination is made when the exception is used. IOW, you get only one of the 3 MLE's.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25

Given what it says when it was determined so if we do not use it on Manu now then we can use it after presumably Aldridge, KL, and Green sign and we are in the midlevel range. At that point the apron will act as a hard cap.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Nope. It's very simple. In order for a team to use cap space to sign free agents, they lose the MLE. It doesn't matter if they subsequently go over the cap. In one NBA year, a team can use cap space or the MLE. Never both.

Alright well the faq is ambiguous then.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

nm I kept reading:


If a team is below the cap, then its Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level (either the Taxpayer or Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level, whichever applies to the team) and/or trade exceptions are added to their team salary, and the league treats the team as though they are over the cap1. This is to prevent a loophole, in a manner similar to free agent amounts (see question number 39).

[Mel_13]

Alright well the faq is ambiguous then.

Perhaps, but it's cap space or MLE, never both.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Perhaps, but it's cap space or MLE, never both.

It's more like you get one exception based on where you start at or you get no exception at all.

I'm curious to see what they do with those remaining spots. Belli and Baynes most certainly need to renounced to make the salaries work. We could match an offer Joseph gets presumably.

[Mel_13]

It's more like you get one exception based on where you start at or you get no exception at all.

I'm curious to see what they do with those remaining spots. Belli and Baynes most certainly need to renounced to make the salaries work. We could match an offer Joseph gets presumably.

If a team uses cap space, they get the room exception. If a team is over the cap they get the non-taxpayer or taxpayer MLE.

If Aldridge is signed with cap space, Joseph will almost certainly be renounced. The only way to keep him would be if Duncan played for the room exception or for the minimum.

Signing Aldridge will cost multiple role players from last year's team. Players that will have to be replaced by minimum salary players.

[DPG21920]

Oh Fuzzy!

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If a team uses cap space, they get the room exception. If a team is over the cap they get the non-taxpayer or taxpayer MLE.

If Aldridge is signed with cap space, Joseph will almost certainly be renounced. The only way to keep him would be if Duncan played for the room exception or for the minimum.

Signing Aldridge will cost multiple role players from last year's team. Players that will have to be replaced by minimum salary players.

That is what I just said. Thanks for the discussion though.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Oh Fuzzy!

Sup Grit&grind. How you doing?

[DPG21920]

Sup Grit&grind. How you doing?

Oh Fuzzy!

[BackHome]

Sup Grit&grind. How you doing?

So let me ask if we loose CoJo and Baynes and Bel..get offers and leave what impact does that do to our cap? I am assuming we get LA so the need for a backup center is critical and a backup SG is also critical even if Manu signs. Not sure if the Spurs get Walther Taveres in the trade but assuming if we did could we sign him and do you think he would be a better fit then our two draft picks?

[Uriel]

I can't believe what a huge discount Tim is taking, given he was just named to the All-Star team last season and was ripped off by his financial agents. What a legend. :cry

[SilverSpur]

Why isn't Parker taking a pay cut? He should give up at least 2 mil to help out the team.

[Mel_13]

Why isn't Parker taking a pay cut? He should give up at least 2 mil to help out the team.

Can't be done even if he wanted to.

[james evans]

Every time I think of what parker is making it upsets me.

[$pursDynasty]

Every time I think of what parker is making it upsets me.
you should look at the list of scrubs making more than Parker and you should feel better (if you are not too pot committed to your position).

[james evans]

you should look at the list of scrubs making more than Parker and you should feel better (if you are not too pot committed to your position).
I don't care what's going on with other teams. I want other teams to over pay. Not us. What dwight howard is making has nothing to do with parker playing like shit and being selfish in the playoffs.

[HarlemHeat37]

Every time I think of what parker is making it upsets me.

:lmao..

[south side spur]

Why would you want CoJo over Mills?
Isn't Joseph more efficient than Mills? Seems like a simple answer to me. Also, Joseph can defend shooting guards relatively well. Sacrifice a hot streak for solid defense and improving offensive facilitation.

[ceperez]

So let me ask if we loose CoJo and Baynes and Bel..get offers and leave what impact does that do to our cap? I am assuming we get LA so the need for a backup center is critical and a backup SG is also critical even if Manu signs. Not sure if the Spurs get Walther Taveres in the trade but assuming if we did could we sign him and do you think he would be a better fit then our two draft picks?

Tavares is no where near ready for the NBA. Just go watch his videos playing in Europe.

[DMC]

LMA could move in with Tim Duncan. It's not like it would be a first.

[Marcus Bryant]

Joseph and Reggie Williams will also be gone.

Room exception becomes interesting, will that be used to sign Ginobili or will Spurs have to use it first to sign a 4th big?

[024]

Joseph and Reggie Williams will also be gone.

Room exception becomes interesting, will that be used to sign Ginobili or will Spurs have to use it first to sign a 4th big?
Gionbili is looking more and more like he's retiring. If he wasn't retiring, why didn't he just announce it, it would have helped out the Spurs' recruitment of Aldridge. I REALLY hope he just retires for a few months and then rejoins the Spurs in December or January for one last push.

So I think the room exception will be available and the Spurs will use that on West.

[Mr. Body]

Gionbili is looking more and more like he's retiring. If he wasn't retiring, why didn't he just announce it, it would have helped out the Spurs' recruitment of Aldridge. I REALLY hope he just retires for a few months and then rejoins the Spurs in December or January for one last push.

So I think the room exception will be available and the Spurs will use that on West.

If Manu wasn't coming back, I believe the FO would be less looking at Stoudamire and a West and looking for SGs.

[BillMc]

Gionbili is looking more and more like he's retiring. If he wasn't retiring, why didn't he just announce it, it would have helped out the Spurs' recruitment of Aldridge. I REALLY hope he just retires for a few months and then rejoins the Spurs in December or January for one last push.

So I think the room exception will be available and the Spurs will use that on West.


If Manu wasn't coming back, I believe the FO would be less looking at Stoudamire and a West and looking for SGs.

There are two clues on Manu today. 1) We know the Spurs are only offering the minimum to West, which implies they are saving the room exception for Manu.
2) Manu's brother tweeted about how the new roster look good, just needed a Latino 6th man to fill it out. It seems like he'd be unlikely to say that if he thought his brother was about to announce his retirement.

Obviously, I could be very wrong.

[Marcus Bryant]

Would think Ginobili wants another shot at going out on top and the offseason playing out as it has thusfar makes a return much more appealing to him.

[024]

If Manu wasn't coming back, I believe the FO would be less looking at Stoudamire and a West and looking for SGs.
I hope Ginobili returns too. But the FO is looking at West because he's willing to play at a discount and is the best value available. Spurs desperately need to find value now because they only have the room exception and min to work with.

I don't think the Stoudemire rumors have much substance behind them.