What do you think of the new Onstar* commercial?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I just saw it on scifi channel. Basically it just asks a bunch of cute looking little kids of all races what happened to them before, during, and after a car accident. They give the usual car accident story. But then they say after the accident a voice asked them if they were okay and said they were calling the ambulance. They all smile and say they're glad someone was there to help them.

This is the first Onstar* commercial i've seen with so many kids. I think its bunk they've resorted to this, maybe it means Onstar* isn't doing too well?

[j-6]

The point of the commercial is to desensitize children to the Onstar* concept. In a couple of years, they'll all be wearing Onstar* wristwatches and Big Brother will be able to locate them anywhere at anytime. But they'll have mp3 players and text messaging functions, so the Onstar* tracking will be just an afterthought.

They'll be the first generation not to be able to throw keg parties while their parents are out of town because the Onstar* satellite system will see a large convergence of kids in a centralized location at an unapproved location at night, and will send the police out in accordance.

[Useruser666]

onstar* helped the government track my car because i was under suspicion of perhaps being involved in something related to something maybe having to do with terrorism


thanks onstar*!

I don't even know where to begin to tell you your wrong. Onstar isn't a government tool. The government couldn't even use it as a resource without a court order. No one is forced to have Onstar on their vehicles, so why are you even talking about it?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I don't even know where to begin to tell you your wrong. Onstar isn't a government tool. The government couldn't even use it as a resource without a court order. No one is forced to have Onstar on their vehicles, so why are you even talking about it?



You can't force somethign like onstar* until its widely accepted. This is why, i think, they have resorted to a 100% children's commercial. Now they can trick that extra portion of dumbass parents who go over the top to protect their kids. If Onstar* had received a better response when it first started advertising a couple years ago, I think the chances of picking up a new car (valued at over ~28000) without Onstar* would be slim.

[SpursWoman]

The point of the commercial is to desensitize children to the Onstar* concept. In a couple of years, they'll all be wearing Onstar* wristwatches and Big Brother will be able to locate them anywhere at anytime. But they'll have mp3 players and text messaging functions, so the Onstar* tracking will be just an afterthought.

They'll be the first generation not to be able to throw keg parties while their parents are out of town because the Onstar* satellite system will see a large convergence of kids in a centralized location at an unapproved location at night, and will send the police out in accordance.


Bummer for my kids, awesome for me! :lol

[Spurminator]

I hear OnStar eats babies.

[SpursWoman]

Now they can trick that extra portion of dumbass parents who go over the top to protect their kids.


So you only plan on half-ass protecting your kids?

[j-6]

I hear OnStar eats babies.

No, Mike Tyson eats children. Onstar* eats puppies.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

j-6 makes a good point, at heart

When kids and parents slowly accept something like Onstar*, its that much easier to accept something like wearing a wrist watch that tells the parents their kid is okay....then to accept a little microchip under the child's skin to locate them (they HAVE made these already, btw..)
Its all a gradual process, this is why Mookie and I talk so much shit about Onstar*

You can't jump straight to the final goal, you gotta take baby steps, and thats what we're seeing right now.

[Marcus Bryant]

Don't smoke that shit during the day.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

So you only plan on half-ass protecting your kids?


I never said that. No, I plan on protecting my (lol) kids, but hopefully keeping it within reason. I'm not going to watch the 2 week report on a pretty girl being missing on CNN and MSNBC and then not allow them to go out and play.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

if the government can force librarians to tell them what books ppl have checked out
(without that person's knowledge)

and if the government can force a priest to reveal what has been said in a confession (without that person's knowledge)

then i'm SURE they can (or will be able to soon) use OnStar to track a 'suspected terrorist'

exactly

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Don't smoke that shit during the day.


go rack up a million posts in the Smug Fuck forum

[SWC Bonfire]

Cars with OBDIII can tell dealers the same thing as the ones with OnStar when you go to have a warranty repair.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Cars with OBDIII can tell dealers the same thing as the ones with OnStar when you go to have a warranty repair.


so do is that good or bad...whats OBDIII

[Useruser666]

OMG!!! I've just discovered a huge government conspiracy to track where everyone lives! Did you know that right at this moment, the government has assigned a unique number to every single house and building in the US???!!! OMGG!WTFAAAHHH!!!?!!! By using this number government agents can send messages to your house at any time? Anyone can find out exactly where you live just by getting a hold of this number!!!

Here is an example!

1000 Conspiracy Lane
San Antonio, TX 7800

We have to do something now, before the government starts learning to compile a secret list that they can use to call us from!!! ARRRRRGGGGG!

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Let us take this a step further. If you are right, then im just being paranoid. If you are wrong, then you're position on this is exactly what they want.

[SpursWoman]

No, I plan on protecting my (lol) kids, but hopefully keeping it within reason.

Easier said than done, though...that's why all of this stuff is so effective. :fro


I seriously don't mind being able to know where my kids are at all times. If only because I love busting them when they try to pull one over on me. :)

[j-6]

If you want to take this a step further, doesn't pretty much every next-gen cellular phone have a GPS locator on it? Our four year old Nextel Motorola do, and I've used the online tracker to find employees when they try and make excuses why a job didn't get done.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

OMG!!! I've just discovered a huge government conspiracy to track where everyone lives!


Stay in your tiny corner, User, no need to ever suspect your idea of the world could be different than it actually is.

Matrix
Multi-state Anti-terrorism Information Exchange

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,595094704,00.html

http://www.fcw.com/supplements/homeland/2004/sup3/hom-matrix-08-30-04.asp

http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,67313,00.html

[Useruser666]

I wish I had a chip under my skin that could tell me where I was when I got lost. Then I would NEVER have to ask for directions!

[j-6]

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,595094704,00.html

Great, the Mormons are behind this. We're fucked.

[SWC Bonfire]

so do is that good or bad...whats OBDIII

The third generation of On-Board Diagnostics. Required for emmissions controls, etc.

[Spurminator]

I wouldn't mind having OnStar to track the kids... But I probably wouldn't ever tell them I caught them in a lie. I'd just play a psychological cat and mouse game until they screw up their story and confess.

That could be fun!

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I wish I had a chip under my skin that could tell me where I was when I got lost. Then I would NEVER have to ask for directions!


I wish User would take his own advice and realize that you can't listen with your ears shut and mouth open.

[SWC Bonfire]

Y'all should hear the "BlondeStar" spoofs they have out...

[Useruser666]

Stay in your tiny corner, User, no need to ever suspect your idea of the world could be different than it actually is.

Matrix
Multi-state Anti-terrorism Information Exchange

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,595094704,00.html

http://www.fcw.com/supplements/homeland/2004/sup3/hom-matrix-08-30-04.asp

http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,67313,00.html


To a crazy person, everyone else is insane. Do you actually believe in this garbage? Or is this just some fun discussion to have during commercials?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

To a crazy person, everyone else is insane. Do you actually believe in this garbage? Or is this just some fun discussion to have during commercials?


If my name was Republican Fan Faded you'd probably click on the fucking link

[Cant_Be_Faded]

oh wait, UserUser666 is of the Homo superior line of beings that automatically can tell when something is false without reading into it?

[Useruser666]

I wish User would take his own advice and realize that you can't listen with your ears shut and mouth open.

I am listening. That's why I responded the way I did. Your wild accusations that Onstar, a private company that is only provided to PAYING CUSTOMERS, is going to turn into some sort of government tool to track you when your smoking weed in your parents basement is ridiculous.

How about stepping away from that keyboard for a second. You know the one that has had it's IP logged at can track you down to your exact location? Oops!

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I am listening. That's why I responded the way I did. Your wild accusations that Onstar, a private company that is only provided to PAYING CUSTOMERS, is going to turn into some sort of government tool to track you when your smoking weed in your parents basement is ridiculous.

How about stepping away from that keyboard for a second. You know the one that has had it's IP logged at can track you down to your exact location? Oops!




Well the fucking entire american economy is based off of private companies, oh incredibly smart infallible useruser. (oh wait, there are no paying customers with regards to the economy)

The electronic voting machines used throughout the country are based on private companies (oh wait, this isn't a government tool)

sounds like the only government tool is you

[Cant_Be_Faded]

oh wait, i forgot the federal reserve was actually FEDERAL

[Spurminator]

Can the government track automobiles equiped with Onstar even if the owner is not a subscriber?

If not, it doesn't seem like it would be a very effective government tracking device, unless you assume that terrorists are subscribing.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Can the government track automobiles equiped with Onstar even if the owner is not a subscriber?

If not, it doesn't seem like it would be a very effective government tracking device, unless you assume that terrorists are subscribing.

If the device is on the car, I wouldn't be too confident.

And yeah, good point, but thats why they might be advertising it with commericals full of kids now.

[Spurminator]

Do you think they're hoping those kids will appeal to suspected terrorists and coerce them to subscribe to OnStar?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Do you think they're hoping those kids will appeal to suspected terrorists and coerce them to subscribe to OnStar?


no
to parents, the commercial is targetting parents not kids, its using kids to target parents

[SWC Bonfire]

I believe the device works regardless if you subscribe or not.

You certainly shouldn't be able to just turn it off, or a thief would.

[Useruser666]

Well the fucking entire american economy is based off of private companies, oh incredibly smart infallible useruser. (oh wait, there are no paying customers with regards to the economy)

The electronic voting machines used throughout the country are based on private companies (oh wait, this isn't a government tool)

sounds like the only government tool is you

You have no idea what you are talking about. If you don't want Onstar, youm don't get Onstar. If you don't pay to keep the service, you don't have Onstar. Even if your vehicle was equiped with it, you don't have it unless you pay for it. No one is forcing you to drive a Chevy Tahoe with Onstar. You don't have to drive around at all. But uh oh, the government is sure to follow your foot steps! OMG! They're after me!!!

[Spurminator]

no
to parents, the commercial is targetting parents not kids, its using kids to target parents

I know, but why do you think the government would be targeting wealthy parents if they were hoping to coerce terrorists/drug dealers to subscribe?

[Useruser666]

I believe the device works regardless if you subscribe or not.

You certainly shouldn't be able to just turn it off, or a thief would.

You can disable it. Physically that is.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I am listening. That's why I responded the way I did. Your wild accusations that Onstar, a private company that is only provided to PAYING CUSTOMERS, is going to turn into some sort of government tool to track you when your smoking weed in your parents basement is ridiculous.

How about stepping away from that keyboard for a second. You know the one that has had it's IP logged at can track you down to your exact location? Oops!
oh yeah and another thing

i never said Onstar* would directly turn into a government tool....I said its a baby step on the road to something that could become a massive government tracking device for all people.

A requirement to make it from step A to step B would be getting people to think like you.

IP logs suck, but without the internet people would have less opportunity to spread information before we get to point B.

[Spurminator]

I believe the device works regardless if you subscribe or not.

You certainly shouldn't be able to just turn it off, or a thief would.

Right, but if I have a car that was factory equiped with Onstar, but I no longer subscribe, my stolen car would not be tracked right?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I know, but why do you think the government would be targeting wealthy parents if they were hoping to coerce terrorists/drug dealers to subscribe?


jesus

im not saying onstar* is immediately on the verge of becoming a government aid in tracking people

its all about getting people used to this, in small doses

you cant jump right into massive tracking without getting the public used to shit like this
onstar* is a step

you can be like the Head of Mensa, Useruser666 and automatically be able to detect false and true information without giving it more than 10 minutes thought, or you can look up more stuff on the INTERNET if you choose to

[Clandestino]

i think it is time to buy some ALCOA stock with you tin foilers!

[Spurminator]

i never said Onstar* would directly turn into a government tool....I said its a baby step on the road to something that could become a massive government tracking device for all people.

It could be, but at this point it's not and it seems to serve a valuable purpose to those who choose to subscribe to it. So at this point, what's the big deal?

I think you should wait until there are more substantial rumblings of a mandatory government tracking device... Because you may be right on. It's just not a credible concern right now.

[Useruser666]

oh yeah and another thing

i never said Onstar* would directly turn into a government tool....I said its a baby step on the road to something that could become a massive government tracking device for all people.

A requirement to make it from step A to step B would be getting people to think like you.

IP logs suck, but without the internet people would have less opportunity to spread information before we get to point B.

What do you want then? If other people want the Onstar serveice, then what's it to you? Should Onstar be banned because somewhere in the distant future the government MIGHT use it against it's people? If you don't want it, then don't buy it. IF the governemnt was trying to pass legislation to make Onstar mandatory in every vehicle, then yes I'd be worried. But they're not, so I'm not. Everytime you buy booze you could be forced to show ID, is that a tracking scheme by our government? I believe you are going way overboard on this.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

It could be, but at this point it's not and it seems to serve a valuable purpose to those who choose to subscribe to it. So at this point, what's the big deal?

I think you should wait until there are more substantial rumblings of a mandatory government tracking device... Because you may be right on. It's just not a credible concern right now.



I bet the LA local governments said it wasn't a credible concern to plan for a massive scale disaster too.

Cuz if this works, and people are dummed down enough to accept more and more intervention in their privacy, then what we will end up with is another massive scale disaster that we 'just didnt see coming'.

[Useruser666]

Bingo Spurm!

[mookie2001]

I just saw it on scifi channel. Basically it just asks a bunch of cute looking little kids of all races what happened to them before, during, and after a car accident. They give the usual car accident story. But then they say after the accident a voice asked them if they were okay and said they were calling the ambulance. They all smile and say they're glad someone was there to help them.

This is the first Onstar* commercial i've seen with so many kids. I think its bunk they've resorted to this, maybe it means Onstar* isn't doing too well?

ROFL, nothing i love more than a dramatic OnStar* commercial featuring cute little kids



The point of the commercial is to desensitize children to the Onstar* concept. In a couple of years, they'll all be wearing Onstar* wristwatches and Big Brother will be able to locate them anywhere at anytime. But they'll have mp3 players and text messaging functions, so the Onstar* tracking will be just an afterthought.

They'll be the first generation not to be able to throw keg parties while their parents are out of town because the Onstar* satellite system will see a large convergence of kids in a centralized location at an unapproved location at night, and will send the police out in accordance.
100% right




I don't even know where to begin to tell you your wrong. Onstar isn't a government tool. The government couldn't even use it as a resource without a court order. No one is forced to have Onstar on their vehicles, so why are you even talking about it?
thats wrong
the info goes through space, its a government tool

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I wish someone would start a thread, with some of the more definitive signs of a government becoming a police state.

People would not take it seriously if i made it.

[Useruser666]

I bet the LA local governments said it wasn't a credible concern to plan for a massive scale disaster too.

Cuz if this works, and people are dummed down enough to accept more and more intervention in their privacy, then what we will end up with is another massive scale disaster that we 'just didnt see coming'.

What does LA have to do with Onstar? How are people's privacy concerns being intruded upon? NO ONE is FORCED to have Onstar on their vehicle! If you want it , you have to PAY for it!!! You, the consumer make the choice on if you want it or not. Nobody's putting a chip in your skull.

[Spurminator]

I bet the LA local governments said it wasn't a credible concern to plan for a massive scale disaster too.

Cuz if this works, and people are dummed down enough to accept more and more intervention in their privacy, then what we will end up with is another massive scale disaster that we 'just didnt see coming'.

What's dumb about choosing to subscribe to a tracking device?

There's a big difference between "I want OnStar" and "Everyone should have to have OnStar." That's not baby steps, that's miles and miles.

[mookie2001]

the info is obtained through the equipment on the vehicle, even if its not being paid for, you just cant call if you havent paid, but if youre lost and havent paid, call up with your cc info and theyll tell where you are
police use it all the time to track stolen cars, they dont need the OnStar* service

[Cant_Be_Faded]

ok i see your points, and they make sense

but its not a "wild accusation" and its not "miles and miles"

wild implies it could never happen, when in fact any dick with time and knowledge can crack into a private computer system and leech information (someone did it to UT and stole thousands of SSN's, including mine)

how far a step away from the ordinary is it to have the government hire independent hackers to get information from private companies?

its not as wild as some of you think

Onstar* in itself is not bad, but every time i see those commercials i cant help but see the malicious intent behind it

[SWC Bonfire]

Right, but if I have a car that was factory equiped with Onstar, but I no longer subscribe, my stolen car would not be tracked right?

Unless you can reactivate your account.

If not, then this thing only monitors the people who allow themselves to be monitored. If a thief can disable it, what good is it? It will only be (mis)used to hurt the law-abiding users, like a handgun registry.

[Useruser666]

Mookie, what are you talking about? If the government(whatever that is) wants, they would just follow you around in their black vans. If you believe the government is out to get you that badly, then there is no hope for you. If you think it's leading down that road, then by all means run for office or support those who will uphold the ideals that a consumer service will lead to the Matrix.

[SWC Bonfire]

Of course, the easy solution is that if you don't like it, don't buy an OnStar-equipped vehicle.

[Useruser666]

Onstar* in itself is not bad, but every time i see those commercials i cant help but see the malicious intent behind it

I think you're missing the point. There is no malicious intent behind it. It's just a service provided to consumers who are willing to pay for it.

[mookie2001]

If you believe the government is out to get you that badly,.










its not!
people always bring that up
no IM NOT ON THE FBI top 10 list, but where does it end and where does it start?
if youre a terrorist yes, a speeder no, a burglary yes, protesting outside a protesting zone
who decides this
they have the ability to
and people pay for it
and they are fools

[Spurminator]

I don't think it's a wild theory at all, I think it's very plausible.

But they won't be encouraging people to subscribe when they decide to use it as a government tool. They'll be MAKING people subscribe, or making automobile manufacturers include it as standard service.

[SWC Bonfire]

I think you're missing the point. There is no malicious intent behind it. It's just a service provided to consumers who are willing to pay for it.

Did you know that OBDIII can tell the dealership that you installed aftermarket products and/or disabled the emmision equipment on the vehicle?

As usual, technology provides new services, but opens up new cans of worms.

[mookie2001]

this is how it starts spurm

if its info, and it goes through space, its a government tool
how can yall not understand this?

[SWC Bonfire]

Vote with your pocketbook & don't pay for Onstar or an onstar-equipped vehicle if you don't like it.

[Useruser666]

If the government tried to push this as mandatory, I would be opposed. I agree totally that it should not be used in that fashion.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

The bottom line is, at the end of the day, if we've been through years of Onstar* as an optional service, and enough parents get to the point where they think its necessary, and it goes to a vote to become mandatory, then we're fucked.

But parents will never get to the point of thinking it will be mandatory without first being given stuff like this as an option

[Shelly]

Isn't Onstar* only on GM vehicles?

[Spurminator]

So do you condone banning OnStar from people who want it as an option?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Maybe all of the conspiracies and ideas people like me (and more extreme) come up with, is a direct result of the technological explosion. Maybe possibilities like this are inevitable with all the incredibly advanced devices and breakthroughs out there.

But the fact remains -- With people using, accepting, TOLERATING onstar*, we are just that much closer to a state of living only read about in science fiction books. Not one step further!

[The Ressurrected One]

There will always be kids who are smarter than their parents and there will always be geeks able to disable any such contraption...status quo.

The dumb will continue to get busted while the smart will get away with it. The good will continue to have nothing to worry about while the bad will continue to try and beat the system...with some success and some failure.

[Spurminator]

Maybe all of the conspiracies and ideas people like me (and more extreme) come up with, is a direct result of the technological explosion. Maybe possibilities like this are inevitable with all the incredibly advanced devices and breakthroughs out there.

But the fact remains -- With people using, accepting, TOLERATING onstar*, we are just that much closer to a state of living only read about in science fiction books. Not one step further!


Okay, but what should we do about it?

[Shelly]

So if you have Sirius or XM radio, couldn't the big bad government track you that way if they wanted to?

[mookie2001]

refuse to buy any gm vehicle with the COMPONENTS of On-Star*

if you actually pay for the service, god help us all

[Useruser666]

I just don't see Onstar like that. Agree to disagree here.

[mookie2001]

^shelly naturally xm and others isnt advertised as a way to track your vehicle

i would never get it
but you can go into a store and buy that cash
not OnStar*

[Cant_Be_Faded]

So if you have Sirius or XM radio, couldn't the big bad government track you that way if they wanted to?


possibly
none of my friends are rich enough to have that though

[SpursWoman]

Some of you are way too damn paranoid.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Okay, but what should we do about it?


I would look up alot more information ont he internet, about what onstar* can do, and what it can't do

Then i would decide, after what you've read here in this thread, if you think its good or bad.

Then either spread the word about what you feel or write your congressman a letter or something.

[Spurminator]

Just about everything in our society is a slippery slope away from fucking up the country.

Church, guns, immigration, the Internet, Clorox Bleach...

But if you try to stop every hypothetical crisis at its non-threatening root, you fuck up the country in an entirely different way.

Now, you guys aren't going that far... But it does undermine the message.

And that message might be necessary (and seem more credible to the average person) at a later time, when the threat is more credible.

[mookie2001]

sw some underestimate the new powers of the government and the advancement of technology
which are both at record growth..., at the same time..., now...these days

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Just about everything in our society is a slippery slope away from fucking up the country.

Church, guns, immigration, the Internet, Clorox Bleach...

But if you try to stop every hypothetical crisis at its non-threatening root, you fuck up the country in an entirely different way.


Yeah, good point there, for sure. But at the very least we should try to keep people's eyes open to what could happen, as opposed to providing more means to include children in onstar* commercials.

[Shelly]

Damn, I'm being watched when I go to HEB. Curses!

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Damn, I'm being watched when I go to HEB. Curses!


they're probably checking you out when you're gardening too.

I dont think they can watch you yet though. In physics class last year we calculated what resolution would be required to read a liscence plate from outer space, and we're still a long ways from acheiving that kind of resolution.

[Spurminator]

Yeah, good point there, for sure. But at the very least we should try to keep people's eyes open to what could happen, as opposed to providing more means to include children in onstar* commercials.

I just think getting the word out and "warning" people about something that isn't really a problem yet damages the chances that the message will be accepted when it is a real concern.

[Jelly]

I can't stand any of the on-star commercials. They're one of those companies that is so self-congratulatory it's nauseating. Besides, my ex-boyfriend used to have it and he thought their service was pretty unimpressive - they even gave him the wrong directions once.

[SpursWoman]

sw some underestimate the new powers of the government and the advancement of technology
which are both at record growth..., at the same time..., now...these days


I guess the whole gist of it is: I really don't care if they know where I am or not...I'm not hiding anything, and I seriously doubt they give a shit where I do my grocery shopping, unless they eventually contract with HEB so they can send me coupons. Which I'd gladly accept, btw.

[mookie2001]

thats the wrong attitude to have
ill have mine on the side of my personal privacy, DON'T want to trust the government for no reason...
but thats just me, a leftyleftolib

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I just think getting the word out and "warning" people about something that isn't really a problem yet damages the chances that the message will be accepted when it is a real concern.


but some see it as a problem already

those intelligence bills they've signed since 9/11, the patriot act, the patriot act II

all of these have a common thread: Increased Government powers to monitor and control the common american people.
It's happening already people, thats why 'crazy paranoid' types are popping up randomly

[mookie2001]

paII aka domestic security enchancemnt act

name not so Patriotic

[Jelly]

Damn, I'm being watched when I go to HEB. Curses!

I don't care if "they" are watching me. If they're that bored let 'em.
I could use the attention anyway. ;)

[Spurminator]

The Patriot Act is worth debating, and it's probably a more efficient use of your time.

But you wouldn't have much success campaigning against the Patriot Act by discouraging people from having Library cards...

[Cant_Be_Faded]

The Patriot Act is worth debating, and it's probably a more efficient use of your time.




To me, they are different arms of the same beast.

[Spurminator]

But then so are library cards and email...

Go for the head.

[Marcus Bryant]

Just go out into the backwoods of Montana, live in a shack without any electricity or running water and churn out a screed about the evils of technological progress.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

But then so are library cards and email...

Go for the head.


yeah i guess so. But some would be more poweful or meaningful than others.

For example, useruser brought up the internet in general, which is correct...but at least we can use the internet for discourse, information for our own brains, etc
same for library cards

but others, such as the other privacy issues, have no strong advantage imo

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Just go out into the backwoods of Montana, live in a shack without any electricity or running water and churn out a screed about the evils of technological progress.


I'd much rather memorize all depth charts, salaries, and free agent preferences, while scoffing other people from a blanket of anonymity, never ceasing to be smug.

[Shelly]

I guess the whole gist of it is: I really don't care if they know where I am or not...I'm not hiding anything, and I seriously doubt they give a shit where I do my grocery shopping, unless they eventually contract with HEB so they can send me coupons. Which I'd gladly accept, btw.


ditto. I'm sure they'd find me pretty damn boring. But maybe they could let my oldest know they are watching him every time he punches his little bother and there just might not be Christmas presents for him this year if he doesn't knock it off.

[The Ressurrected One]

Just go out into the backwoods of Montana, live in a shack without any electricity or running water and churn out a screed about the evils of technological progress.
Then, call your screeds a "manifesto," and start sending mail bombs. Right?

[mookie2001]

marcus you got owned!

[Spurminator]

For example, useruser brought up the internet in general, which is correct...but at least we can use the internet for discourse, information for our own brains, etc
same for library cards

but others, such as the other privacy issues, have no strong advantage imo

Sure, in your opinion... But some people value the security of being able to track down their stolen Corvette as much or more than access to free books.

[Marcus Bryant]

I'd much rather memorize all depth charts, salaries, and free agent preferences, while scoffing other people from a blanket of anonymity, never ceasing to be smug.

What are you doing with your time?

[Marcus Bryant]

marcus you got owned!

eh?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

What are you doing with your time?

watching tv, memorizing my genus and species for the family Colubridae, blogging on spurstalk, breathing

[Useruser666]

they're probably checking you out when you're gardening too.

I dont think they can watch you yet though. In physics class last year we calculated what resolution would be required to read a liscence plate from outer space, and we're still a long ways from acheiving that kind of resolution.

Uh, it's too late. They already can read a liscence plate from space.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Uh, it's too late. They already can read a liscence plate from space.


Really? this is news to me, u got a link

[Useruser666]

Damn, I'm being watched when I go to HEB. Curses!

Jim was dissapointed with Onstar when he found out he couldn't actually see you in the shower.

[Useruser666]

Really? this is news to me, u got a link

Well, I had seen an article that claimed resolution of .25 cm. I think that's enough to read a plate.

[Marcus Bryant]

watching tv, memorizing my genus and species for the family Colubridae, blogging on spurstalk, breathing


Yeah right. Don't forget to wipe yourself off after mookie2001 smokes your pole.

[SpursWoman]

ditto. I'm sure they'd find me pretty damn boring. But maybe they could let my oldest know they are watching him every time he punches his little bother and there just might not be Christmas presents for him this year if he doesn't knock it off.


:lol


I mean seriously...what are they possibly going to learn from spending ga-jillions of dollars on ways to track your ass to Marble Slab....so they can send you a reminder letter of the promise you made to what you thought was just thin air to lose 10lbs?

I'm not sure what information they would get from you that's not already available somewhere to make anyone freak out about it....unless you're up to no good. And if that's the case, too damn bad... :lol

[Sportcamper]

User..the FBI has already been caught eavesdropping on peoples conversations with onstar equipped cars....The fact that Big Brother can do it is not debatable... :smokin

Pretty Scary Stuff eh? (http://news.com.com/Court+to+FBI+No+spying+on+in-car+computers/2100-1029_3-5109435.html)

[Shelly]

:lol


I mean seriously...what are they possibly going to learn from spending ga-jillions of dollars on ways to track your ass to Marble Slab....so they can send you a reminder letter of the promise you made to what you thought was just thin air to lose 10lbs?

I'm not sure what information they would get from you that's not already available somewhere to make anyone freak out about it....unless you're up to no good. And if that's the case, too damn bad... :lol

:lmao

Um...I wonder if they know how much I REALLY spend at Target :oops


Jim was dissapointed with Onstar when he found out he couldn't actually see you in the shower.

I feel so.....violated!

[Spurminator]

User..the FBI has already been caught eavesdropping on peoples conversations with onstar equipped cars....The fact that Big Brother can do it is not debatable... :smokin

Pretty Scary Stuff eh? (http://news.com.com/Court+to+FBI+No+spying+on+in-car+computers/2100-1029_3-5109435.html)

Interesting.

But in this case, the system worked and the practice was stopped, if only for peripheral reasons.

[Useruser666]

User..the FBI has already been caught eavesdropping on peoples conversations with onstar equipped cars....The fact that Big Brother can do it is not debatable... :smokin

Pretty Scary Stuff eh? (http://news.com.com/Court+to+FBI+No+spying+on+in-car+computers/2100-1029_3-5109435.html)

They caught them doing it and stopped them. I think it's pretty fair that they were stopped. It happens allthe time that law enforcement's abilities are curtailed do to a persons rights.


Court to FBI: No spying on in-car computers
Published: November 19, 2003, 12:07 PM PST
By Declan McCullagh
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
TrackBack Print E-mail TalkBack

The FBI and other police agencies may not eavesdrop on conversations inside automobiles equipped with OnStar or similar dashboard computing systems, a federal appeals court ruled.

The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals said Tuesday that the FBI is not legally entitled to remotely activate the system and secretly use it to snoop on passengers, because doing so would render it inoperable during an emergency.

In a split 2-1 rulingthe majority wrote that "the company could not assist the FBI without disabling the system in the monitored car" and said a district judge was wrong to have granted the FBI its request for surreptitious monitoring.

The court did not reveal which brand of remote-assistance product was being used but did say it involved "luxury cars" and, in a footnote, mentioned Cadillac, which sells General Motors' OnStar technology in all current models. After learning that the unnamed system could be remotely activated to eavesdrop on conversations after a car was reported stolen, the FBI realized it would be useful for "bugging" a vehicle, Judges Marsha Berzon and John Noonan said.

When FBI agents remotely activated the system and were listening in, passengers in the vehicle could not tell that their conversations were being monitored. After "vehicle recovery mode" was disabled, the court said, passengers were notified by the radio displaying an alert and, if the radio was not on, the system beeping.

David Sobel, general counsel at the Electronic Privacy Information Center, called the court's decision "a pyrrhic victory" for privacy.

"The problem (the court had) with the surveillance was not based on privacy grounds at all," Sobel said. "It was more interfering with the contractual relationship between the service provider and the customer, to the point that the service was being interrupted. If the surveillance was done in a way that was seamless and undetectable, the court would have no problem with it."

Under current law, the court said, companies may only be ordered to comply with wiretaps when the order would cause a "minimum of interference." After the system's spy capabilities were activated, "pressing the emergency button and activation of the car's airbags, instead of automatically contacting the company, would simply emit a tone over the already open phone line," the majority said, concluding that a wiretap would create substantial interference.

"The FBI, however well-intentioned, is not in the business of providing emergency road services and might well have better things to do when listening in than respond with such services to the electronic signal sent over the line," the majority said.

In a dissent, Judge Richard Tallman argued that a wiretap would not create unnecessary interference with emergency service and noted that "there is no evidence that any service disruption actually occurred. The record does not indicate that the subjects of the surveillance tried to use the system while the FBI was listening. One cannot disrupt a service unless and until it is being utilized.

"The record indicates that the only method of executing the intercept order in this case involved activating the car's microphone and transferring the car's cellular telephone link to the FBI. This conduct might have amounted to a service disruption, had the subjects of the surveillance attempted to use the system, but there is no evidence that they did."

The majority did point out that the FBI cannot order the system to be changed so that the emergency functions would work during surveillance. Congress ordered telephone companies to do just that in the 1994 Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act, but current law does not "require that the company redesign its system to facilitate surveillance by law enforcement."

General Motors did not immediately respond to a request for comment on Wednesday. Its OnStar privacy policy says: "OnStar may disclose personal information if required to do so by law on (sic) in the good faith belief that such disclosure is reasonably necessary to comply with the legal process...OnStar cannot accept any responsibility for accidental or inadvertent disclosure, unauthorized access or for other disclosure as required by law or described in this policy."

The decision is binding only in California, Oregon, Nevada, Washington, Hawaii, and other states that fall within the 9th Circuit's jurisdiction. No other appeals court appears to have ruled on the matter.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

So then its not too far fetched after all.
glad they stopped.

[Useruser666]

I never said that the government COULDN'T monitor you. I just doubt that it is some vast conspiracy to monitor everyone.

[mookie2001]

the conspiracy is that
obtain tools, technology, legislation to monitor everybody

because "criminals" fall in that group

[SpursWoman]

the conspiracy is that
obtain tools, technology, legislation to monitor everybody

because "criminals" fall in that group


And you think something that might facilitate catching potentially (or proven) violent criminals is a bad thing?

[mookie2001]

not when everyone is already a suspect

[Useruser666]

the conspiracy is that
obtain tools, technology, legislation to monitor everybody

because "criminals" fall in that group

You have to balance peoples rights with the interests of society. I don't think tracking everyone is good, but to have the ability to do so legally is not.

[SWC Bonfire]

not when everyone is already a suspect

You're either with OnStar* or you're with the terrorists...

[The Ressurrected One]

Do you honestly believe the government has the capability to track everyone?

Anybody remember the trouble they were having going through all the intercepted communications prior to September 11th?

Can you say paranoid?

[mookie2001]

OnStar*

because I love my children.

[mookie2001]

Do you honestly believe the government has the capability to track everyone?
communications prior to September 11th?

Can you say paranoid?

we already went over that

yes.

[Sportcamper]

You're either with OnStar* or you're with the terrorists...
:lol :rollin :lol

[SpursWoman]

Can you say paranoid?


Paranoid & presumptous that the government really thinks you're significant enough to waste valuable resources to even bother. Or is that only when there is a Republican president and a fierce natural disaster strikes that they all of a sudden don't give a damn about the little people anymore?

[mookie2001]

yall are lame that same "they are not watching me" "I've got nothing to hide" bullshit doesnt even make any sense

thats like saying segregation was ok because youre white
(now make the- I'm comparing segregation to OnStar* argument)

if they have the power, they CAN do it

would you want Evan Marriot to have the power to do tombstones on you whenever he wanted?
what if he lives in Boston and you live in San Diego?
what if youre stone cold steve austin?
it doesnt matter.
its the fact that he can

[Spurminator]

So what you're saying is they should not have the option at all.

I say we make sure they don't use that ability irresponsibly.

[Marcus Bryant]

Once again forum participants err by taking anything mookie2001 types seriously.

Though if someone can translate that last post into plain English that would be much appreciated.

[The Ressurrected One]

yall are lame that same "they are not watching me" "I've got nothing to hide" bullshit doesnt even make any sense

thats like saying segregation was ok because youre white
So, you're equating blacks to criminals or people with something to hide?

Segregation wasn't okay because is denied blacks equal protection, under the law.

Even if it were possible to monitor EVERYONE, why would they? And, wouldn't it just about take everyone else to keep tabs on each other?

[mookie2001]

the technology will be so cheap, small and intergrated into everything, they would be foolish not use it in the future

[The Ressurrected One]

the technology will be so cheap, small and intergrated into everything, they would be foolish not use it in the future
You miss the point. Even if the technology allows them to aggregate all sorts of information on everybody and store it in some HAL computer, who the fuck is going to parse all that data?

Open the pod bay door, Hal...and let Mookie out.

[Sportcamper]

I don’t think the article proves the system works...It proves Big Brother got caught that’s all...And you don’t know that they are not RIGHT NOW monitoring peoples conversations since Onstar has made it so easy...

Tivo, Onstar, Cell Phones, Grocery Store Cards, Even your lunch thermos....Are all used to set up profiles & Spy on people.... :smokin

http://www.luminomagazine.com/2004.03/spotlight/officespace/images/milton/milton2.jpg

[The Ressurrected One]

Tivo, Onstar, Cell Phones, Grocery Store Cards, Even your lunch thermos...
I don't have any of those things. Nope, not even a lunch thermos.

[mookie2001]

you CANNOT understand the technology
you wont need someone
it will part of the system
do you understand nanotechnolgy, internet 2, the multistate terrorism and information exchange
how much progress have we made in 10 years
imagine in 10 more, its on a jcurve

[SWC Bonfire]

OnStar*

because I love my children.

Once you have children, and you look into their eyes and they look back at yours, you'll realize that you need OnStar*.

[The Ressurrected One]

you CANNOT understand the technology
you wont need someone
it will part of the system
do you understand nanotechnolgy, internet 2, the multistate terrorism and information exchange
how much progress have we made in 10 years
imagine in 10 more, its on a jcurve
And what, pray tell, will "the system" do with this information?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Open the pod bay door, Hal...

:lol what a creepy scene

It can happen though. The gayest thing of all will be that there will have been so many authors and 'paranoids' warning us from step 1.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I should change my real name to a really smug name, change my username to my new real name, and then scoff people with different, alternate usernames at random.

[The Ressurrected One]

:lol what a creepy scene

It can happen though. The gayest thing of all will be that there will have been so many authors and 'paranoids' warning us from step 1.
What will happen?

[mookie2001]

they already have it tro
the matrix
google it
someone hacked already

[SpursWoman]

For what legitimate purpose(s) are they going to be keeping tabs on you that would justify going through all of this time & expense?

[mookie2001]

SW have you read the posts above?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

What will happen?


a HAL-like scenario

[mookie2001]

the technology will be so cheap, small and intergrated into everything, they would be foolish not use it in the future



you CANNOT understand the technology
you wont need someone
it will part of the system
do you understand nanotechnolgy, internet 2, the multistate terrorism and information exchange
how much progress have we made in 10 years
imagine in 10 more, its on a jcurve

[Cant_Be_Faded]

technology is moving at ridiculous speed

we can only imagine how power hungry the people at the top are. just waiting for an opportunity to exploit everyone else for their own personal agendas.

[SpursWoman]

You guys need help. :lol

[Marcus Bryant]

It's clear that dookie2001 and Cant_Be_Mated are worried about the Neocons snooping in on their passionate cornholing in the back of a GM SUV.

[mookie2001]

Darsh!

[SWC Bonfire]

It's clear that dookie2001 and Cant_Be_Mated are worried about the Neocons snooping in on their passionate cornholing.

:lol

[Mr. Dictionary]

The Panopticon
noun.
A type of prison building designed by the philosopher Jeremy Bentham. The concept of the design is to allow an observer to observe (-opticon) all (pan-) prisoners without the prisoners being able to tell if they are being observed or not, thus conveying a "sentiment of an invisible omniscience":

Morals reformed - health preserved - industry invigorated instruction diffused - public burthens lightened - Economy seated, as it were, upon a rock - the gordian knot of the Poor-Laws are not cut, but untied - all by a simple idea in Architecture!-
Jeremy Bentham[1]
The architectural figure "incorporates a tower central to an annular building that is divided into cells, each cell extending the entire thickness of the building to allow inner and outer windows. The occupants of the cells . . . are thus backlit, isolated from one another by walls, and subject to scrutiny both collectively and individually by an observer in the tower who remains unseen. Toward this end, Bentham envisioned not only venetian blinds on the tower observation ports but also mazelike connections among tower rooms to avoid glints of light or noise that might betray the presence of an observer." [2]

Bentham derived the idea from the plan of a factory designed for easy supervision, itself conceived by his brother Samuel who arrived to it as a solution to the complexities involved in the handling of large numbers of men. Bentham supplemented this principle with the idea of contract management, that is, an administration by contract as opposed to trust, where the director would have a pecuniary interest in lowering the average rate of mortality. The Panopticon was intended to be cheaper than that of the prisons of his time, as it required less staff; "Allow me to construct a prison on this model," Bentham requested to a Committee for the Reform of Criminal Law, "I will be the gaoler. You will see [...] that the gaoler will have no salary -- will cost nothing to the nation." As the watchmen cannot be seen, they need not be on duty at all times, effectively leaving the watching to the watched.

Bentham devoted a large part of his time and almost his whole fortune to promote the construction of a prison based on his scheme. After many years and innumerable political and financial difficulties, he eventually obtained a favourable sanction from Parliament for the purchase of a place to erect the prison, but in 1811 and after the King refused to authorize the purchase of the land, the project was finally aborted. In 1813 he was awarded a sum of £23,000 in compensation for his monetary loss which, however, did little to alleviate Bentham's ensuing unhappiness for the miscarriage.

While the design did not come to fruition during Bentham's time, it has been seen as an important development. For instance, the design was invoked by Michel Foucault (in "Discipline and Punish") as metaphor for modern "disciplinary" societies and its pervasive inclination to observe and normalize. Foucault proposes that not only prisons but all hierarchical structures like the army, the school, the hospital and the factory have evolved through history to resemble Bentham's Panopticon. The notoriety of the design today (although not its lasting influence in architectural realities) stems from Foucault's famous analysis of it.

The Panopticon influenced the design of Pentonville Prison, Armagh Gaol [1], Eastern State Penitentiary [2], and several other Victorian prisons.

The Panopticon was likewise later suggested as an "open" hospital architecture: "Hospitals required knowledge of contacts, contagions, proximity and crowding... at the same time to divide space and keep it open, assuring a surveillance which is both global and individualising", 1977 interview (preface to French edition of Jeremy Bentham's "Panopticon").

Critics argue this technology and philosophy could be expanded to society as a whole. Many areas have seen an incremental creep of closed-circuit television surveillance such as at stoplights and in city centres like London where video cameras are used to reduce the risk of crime. In the contemporary setting, call centres, with heavily surveilled employees, realise the idea behind Panopticon in a 21st century setting - where the gaze of a superior is always present in every conversation and internalised in every good employee

[Mr. Dictionary]

http://www.biomapping.net/panopticon.jpg

[SpursWoman]

They did this at my kid's daycare...I could get online and spy on them. It was awesome!

[Dos]

hey! my company makes onstar products... and other cool products to keep track of your house and children....

[mookie2001]

naturally

[Cant_Be_Faded]

It's clear that dookie2001 and Cant_Be_Mated are worried about the Neocons snooping in on their passionate cornholing in the back of a GM SUV.


How creative, they should give you a spur for that.

[SpursWoman]

were you spying on them or the daycare workers?

and the workers would probably take them in the bathroom to molest them


No....I would take a very small thing that they might have done (not necessarily bad) and bring it up when I picked them up. Like: "Why did you take that toy away from so&so?". There eyes would totally pop out of their head and it was FUNNY. It reinforced the "Mommy has eyes in the back of her head" theory. :spin

It's basically a nanny-cam ... and I wasn't a regular viewer, but when I ever did I made sure to mess with my kids with anything I might have seen. For purely entertainment purposes. :)

[mookie2001]

shut up you dont even have kids asshole!!

[Cant_Be_Faded]

as long as they stay safe for their first 18 years of official government defined immaturity!

[Clandestino]

the gov doesn't have enough trained intel folks to monitor terrorists.. they sure aren't going to waste time on every jo schmo in the world. contrary to what you guys believe it can't be done.

[SpursWoman]

you probably have given them a complex

congratulations


Good, and I hope they still have it the next time they want to do something wrong and then decide not to because they think I might be watching and they'll get in trouble, BIG TIME.

Damn, that complex might even stop a potential drug addiction, prison term or unwanted pregnancy. God forbid I'd like to keep my children getting involved in shit like that.

:)

[mookie2001]

Spurstalk female posters...
their owns kids' antidrug

[SpursWoman]

probably will stop them from touching their penises/vaginas, thinking for themselves, or voting Not along party lines !


If it keeps my daughter from being a crack whore, and my son from spending a good portion of his life in prison, I don't GAF. :spin

[Cant_Be_Faded]

the gov doesn't have enough trained intel folks to monitor terrorists.. they sure aren't going to waste time on every jo schmo in the world. contrary to what you guys believe it can't be done.

in Orwell's "1984", they weren't monitoring everyone, it was the threat that the thing on their wall could currently be watching them

occasional it did watch them, and occasionally that person was doing something against the rules

[mookie2001]

oh cbf take off the tinfoil hat and your wizards cape!

[The Ressurrected One]

in Orwell's "1984", they weren't monitoring everyone, it was the threat that the thing on their wall could currently be watching them

occasional it did watch them, and occasionally that person was doing something against the rules
You understand, of course, that "1984" is a fictional tome, right?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

You understand, of course, that "1984" is a fictional tome, right?


You understand, of course, what point in history it was written and what he based it on, right?

[Clandestino]

I just called one of my intel buddies and he hacked into CBF's webcam. He said, we need to chill out because CBF looks angry and is on the verge of doing something dangerous.














http://img47.photobucket.com/albums/v143/sweetxpunk/foil_hat.jpg

[Cant_Be_Faded]

LOL im not white fat or ugly
i am wearing a foil hat though..

[mookie2001]

we all wear those

[Cant_Be_Faded]

i am a little concerned about that toilet in the back of the room

its just sitting out there in the middle of everything

[mookie2001]

i have to wear hemlets when i eat hamburgers though...

[SpursWoman]

so you have to resort to exploiting feelings of paranoia?

what happened to teaching them how to be good persons and leading by example?



Yep. :lol :lol



There's a difference between good-natured teasing and a threatening Orwell-like omnipresence trying to make them afraid. They knew the cameras were there and why.

[j-6]

http://www.biomapping.net/panopticon.jpg

I read a book called The Traveler that talked about the panopticon, but then the author had to blow it with some scheme with people that lived "off the grid" that could travel to other dimensions, and the race of warriors that was sworn to protect them.

[Useruser666]

Deep end, here we come.