PATFO Deserve a Ton of Credit

[BatManu20]

Best Front Office and Head Coach in the League, tbh. Most of us, me included, were preparing for the dog days of Spurs basketball once Timmy and Manu retired. But, to go out and do what they've done in the past week is nothing short of incredible, particularly with the Salary Cap as such. Just an unreal job by R.C., Pop, Peter Holt, the players, and the assistant coaches. SA is lucky to have all these guys.

Of course, with great talent comes great expectations. It looks nice on paper, but we really won't know much about the full product until we see it on the hardwood. It's likely going to take some time to gel with so many new pieces. But, regardless, PATFO have at least put us in a position to be competitive and contend for a championship in the foreseeable future. All the credit in the world to them and to players like LaMarcus Aldridge and David West for sacrificing personal numbers and/or financial benefits.

All around, best organization in sports, tbh.

:flag:

[Mugen]

:lol RC had this shit planned when the Spurs were running roughshod over the NBA during the 2014 playoffs. The only blemish is Porky's extension but these moves more than made up for it.....

https://nbcprobasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/0829-rc-buford-300.jpeg?w=300

[Robz4000]

Same

[BatManu20]

:lol RC had this shit planned when the Spurs were running roughshod over the NBA during the 2014 playoffs. The only blemish is Porky's extension but these moves more than made up for it.....

https://nbcprobasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/0829-rc-buford-300.jpeg?w=300

:lol At your pic. But yea, Porker was the only questionable call. Giving a 32 y/o PG with declining speed a contract like that was extremely ambitious. It can be argued that they're loyal to fault. But other than that, R.C. has absolutely earned himself another Executive of the Year. It'd be robbery to give it to anyone else.

[SupremeGuy]

Best organization in all of sports, tbh.

:flag:

[cd98]

Remember how we all complained about how boring the draft was?

[spursistan]

Yeah, the plan for shake-up was there when Pop said the team will look different next year right after Game 7 v. Clippers. This FO is too good to wing it Cuban-style..Many in here feared as Suns got into the LMA sweepstakes..Aldridge wishy-washyness aside, the Suns and Blazers had no chance against PATFO, tbh..

[therealtruth]

A crowded frontcourt with no center and not much depth in the backcourt but still overall a good job. The one thing I am wondering is if Pop can handle the expectations. Doesn't tend to do well in those situation. See '09-'10 (Dice and RJ), '05-'06 (Van Excel and Finley), and '03-'04 (Horry and Turkogulu).

[ChumpDumper]

A crowded frontcourt with no center and not much depth in the backcourt but still overall a good job. The one thing I am wondering is if Pop can handle the expectations. Doesn't tend to do well in those situation. See '09-'10 (Dice and RJ), '05-'06 (Van Excel and Finley), and '03-'04 (Horry and Turkogulu).Meh, I give them a C+.

[daledondale]

Fantastic organization. :bobo

[BatManu20]

618162617429966849

[cd98]

618162617429966849

Methinks they just retire the award or rename it after Buford.

[spursparker9]

Did RC ever win the Executive award ?

[Uriel]

https://i.imgflip.com/nvcpv.jpg

[cd98]

Did RC ever win the Executive award ?
Yes, once.

[Roger Freemason Jr.]

What does PATFO stand for?

[Mel_13]

What does PATFO stand for?
Pop and the Front Office.

[RD2191]

What does PATFO stand for?
Parker ate the food obviously

[Guajalote]

One thing is for sure. Spurs fans (including myself) can no longer whine about how big time FA's don't ever come to San Antonio.

[Horry Hipcheck]

Parker ate the food obviously

:lmao

[Spur|n|Austin]

Did RC ever win the Executive award ?

Do you even Google bro?

[tim_duncan_fan]

I love PATFO and this organization so much.

So badass.

[Roger Freemason Jr.]

Thanks guys.

[KaiRMD1]

And it's not like Duncan, West & Aldridge met up away from everybody and conspired to get together. This was strictly the front office and those old sports deserve a ton of credit

[Budkin]

Best organization in all of sports, tbh.

:flag:

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

And even that Parker extension won't look as bad after this year. PATFO done well :tu

[apalisoc_9]

Parker ate the food obviously

gold

:lmao

[vander]

1997 ping pong balls deserve 90% of the credit.

[T Park]

1997 ping pong balls deserve 90% of the credit.



Pop made sure the 97 ping pong balls stayed here

[vander]

Pop made sure the 97 ping pong balls stayed here

how close was TD to going to Orlando, did anyone ever ask him after the fact? I remember thinking that it was all just talk and TD had no intention of leaving

[Sean Cagney]

Best organization in all of sports, tbh.

:flag:
Your damn right......

[Sean Cagney]

how close was TD to going to Orlando, did anyone ever ask him after the fact? I remember thinking that it was all just talk and TD had no intention of leaving

No that is false, he was going to go to Orlando and D ROB had to fly and meet with him and talk him into staying! He said they had something special and could win a title again etc., remember reading about that and how close Tim was to actually going to Orlando.

[100%duncan]

Best organization in all of sports, tbh.

:flag:

[cutewizard]

most of you here were depressed and thought that LaMarcus was going to the Lakers or the Suns

[popdagreat]

most of you here were depressed and thought that LaMarcus was going to the Lakers or the Suns

It was us or the suns. we wouldnt have wanted him anyways if he decided to go phoenix lol :nope

[cutewizard]

Here is another interesting article:

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/features/david_aldridge/07/06/morning-tip-state-of-free-agency-in-new-nba-world-milwaukee-bucks-greg-monroe-why-los-angeles-lakers-struggle-in-free-agency-qa-luke-ridnour/

[BillMc]

No that is false, he was going to go to Orlando and D ROB had to fly and meet with him and talk him into staying! He said they had something special and could win a title again etc., remember reading about that and how close Tim was to actually going to Orlando.

I think 2000 was the only time Duncan ever talked to other teams wasn't it? Did he ever have a meeting with another club in any of his other FA years?

[Fireball]

most of you here were depressed and thought that LaMarcus was going to the Lakers or the Suns

you were freakin out about the possibility tbh

[cutewizard]

now, im so happy

we just need a back up center

a third-string pg,

and an additional shooter

and we shall have one of the strongest rosters in the history of the NBA

[Sean Cagney]

I think 2000 was the only time Duncan ever talked to other teams wasn't it? Did he ever have a meeting with another club in any of his other FA years?

Nope, after that he was a Spur for life. There was no doubts he would re sign every time after.

[cutewizard]

Come to think of it, the Spurs organization has had two historic offseasons back to back

Last offseason, it was all about the new breed of coaches/assistant coaches coming in:

both Messina and Becky making history......

This time, its about the players....

I hope the Spurs can combine these two resource acquisitions sets into a historical regular season as well: a wallop!!

[cutewizard]

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/features/david_aldridge/07/06/morning-tip-state-of-free-agency-in-new-nba-world-milwaukee-bucks-greg-monroe-why-los-angeles-lakers-struggle-in-free-agency-qa-luke-ridnour/

[cutewizard]

Some excerpts:

When Kidd retired as a player, he hired a new agent to represent him for potential coaching jobs: Hal Biagas. He was a former attorney with the National Basketball Players Association who had changed careers in 2009 to represent players and coaches, first working for the powerful Wasserman Sports agency, whose basketball division was headed by the uber-powerful Arn Tellem, and then Schwartz's Excel Sports in 2012. But Schwartz, who also represented players Paul Pierce (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/paul_pierce/?iref:nba:story_page:playerfile) and Deron Williams (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/deron_williams/?iref:nba:story_page:playerfile) in Brooklyn, was still a powerful voice in representing Kidd's interests.
The relationship between Lasry, Kidd and Schwartz -- the latter two close enough to the former to be invited to and attend Lasry's daughter's wedding in 2011 -- led to the out-of-nowhere hire of Kidd as coach of the Nets in 2013 (http://www.nba.com/2013/news/06/12/nets-bring-jason-kidd-as-head-coach/). It was a stunning ascension for a former player -- even a great one such as Kidd -- who had retired as a player just nine days before getting the job, a position that most who seek it never reach despite a lifetime's work.

[cutewizard]

That trio quickly went to work in 2014, after Kidd's roller-coaster first season with the Nets' coach, which began with turmoil and controversy (http://www.nba.com/2013/news/11/28/kidd-fined/) but ultimately was righted, leading Brooklyn to a playoff spot and a dramatic first-round win over Toronto (http://www.nba.com/playoffs/2014/eastseries3/?ls=pob). Kidd showed he had legit coaching chops, going to a small lineup featuring Pierce at power forward, with Shaun Livingston (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/shaun_livingston/?iref:nba:story_page:playerfile) and Williams playing together in the backcourt.

.............................................

there's more:

But Kidd and Nets management got sidetracked, and then derailed, over his desire to have more say in personnel matters. And in another stunning move last year, Schwartz asked for and was given permission to speak with the Bucks (http://www.nba.com/2014/news/06/29/jason-kidd-nets-bucks-062914.ap/) -- now freshly co-owned by Lasry -- about their coaching job. The only problem was, the job wasn't vacant. Larry Drew, a well-respected coach who'd waited more than a decade to get his first chance as a coach, with Atlanta in 2010, still had the gig.
But relationships trump all in the NBA. Drew was blown out, and Kidd took the job. The details were unsavory to say the least (http://www.nba.com/2014/news/07/02/bucks-owners-admit-fault.ap/), but the Bucks now had a billionaire's row of owners, a young coach who was going places and one of the game's most powerful agents representing him all in place, leading the direction of where the franchise would go.

[cutewizard]

Jason Kidd really could be one of the top coaches in the NBA:

Kidd ushers in change
"What J-Kidd kind of instilled when I first came in was a system where we were going to play the right way," said forward Jared Dudley (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jared_dudley/?iref:nba:story_page:playerfile), who played in Milwaukee last season before being dealt to the Wizards last week. "Offensively, you were going to have freedom. But you were going to have to do everything exactly right on defense to have that freedom."

[21209]

Parker ate the food obviously


:lol

[cutewizard]

Milwaukee sheds its old role in NBA
Using the preceding 40 or so paragraphs as prologue, the league, and the Bucks, were now in much different places than they were decades ago.


Lasry, Edens and Dinan injected life and purpose into the franchise, rallying local investors and engaging corporate sponsors. They raised $118 million (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2015/01/29/milwaukee-bucks-owners-have-raised-nearly-118.html) from various investors in 2014, and have tried to sell the notion of the Bucks as a statewide entity rather than one that just serves as entertainment for the Milwaukee area.
They brought in a masseuse who traveled with the team. They hired Suki Hobson, an Australian "strength scientist" who trained Olympic athletes in her own practice and who is considered cutting edge in the performance community in treating ACL injuries. (In May, the Bucks hired her full-time as Senior Strength and Rehabilitation Specialist.) There were nutritionists and there are hopes for a new practice facility.

[cutewizard]

Falk, who represented a guy I like to call Michael Jeffrey Jordan, doesn't take the meeting if you aren't offering the max. He doesn't negotiate. A lot of people don't like Falk, but you can never, ever, say he doesn't know what the number is, and who will give it to him.

______________________________________

omg

[cutewizard]

True parity at last?
Twenty years ago -- a decade ago -- Milwaukee would have had no chance in such a contest for Monroe. But times and relationships have changed. Monroe went to the Bucks knowing that they were an up-and-coming franchise. In an apples-to-apples comparison of everything -- management, style of play, coaching, future -- he thought Milwaukee was better for him than New York City.
"At the end of the day, (Monroe) felt that the special relationship that Jason has with Marc Lasry and Wes Edens, he's going to be there a long time," Falk said. "While he doesn't have the title, he has the same position as Pat Riley... he's going to make all the decisions. And he's going to be there for a long time because of the relationship with the owners. He's going to be there a long time."

[cutewizard]

that was some article

very informative and intelligently-written, with lots of insights

the point is:

there are also other good management teams around the league

our front office cannot rest on its laurels

the game is changing, competition is intense, and the smallest edge among the elite might determine the champions

[Thomas82]

Did RC ever win the Executive award ?

He won it for the 2013-14 season.

[BillMc]

Remember how we all complained about how boring the draft was?

Truth

[BlackSilver]

how close was TD to going to Orlando, did anyone ever ask him after the fact? I remember thinking that it was all just talk and TD had no intention of leaving
As I recall from that time, it was a very real possibility. I think the Spurs were the default option for Tim, but for no other reason than he felt some connection with and loyalty to Pop. The big cloud over the Spurs was whether they could ever get past the Lakers who were so dominant at the time, and whether the Spurs could get enough pieces to realistically contend and get to the finals.

I know us fans were definitely terrified he was going to leave. IIRC, one of the factors that swayed Tim away from Orlando was that Doc Rivers did not allow or encourage wives/girlfriends to accompany players on road trips. Which turned out to be especially ironic given Tim's marital issues later...

[jhfenton]

Parker ate the food obviously

:lol:toast

[PublicOption]

Well I think porker should restructure his contract to West a little more $$$$$

[spurspokesman]

Pop and RC dropping a big no.2 on the league.

[BatManu20]

Well I think porker should restructure his contract to West a little more $$$$$

Maybe the Spurs gave Porker an ultimatum. He either pony's up and give D-West a couple Mil to come to SA or they cut off his access to the AT&T Center cafeteria, tbh.

[rjv]

our front office is the reason why i ignore all the over the top skepticism of even our most informed posters on this forum. the FO achieves things so many think can or won't be done.

[ace3g]

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fmedia%2FscGraphics%2F2015%2F07%2F07%2FFS_ 11AM_NBA_070715_Spurs_lineup_1436272416134.jpg&w=1280

[Thomas82]

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fmedia%2FscGraphics%2F2015%2F07%2F07%2FFS_ 11AM_NBA_070715_Spurs_lineup_1436272416134.jpg&w=1280

NICE!!

[Marrow]

porky's contract will look better once the cap goes up...that's how the spurs keep their players on board and are able to convince them to take less early on in their careers

[spursistan]

Bump..

They just have been terrible preparing for the post-TP/Manu days in the backcourt, tbh.. this team virtually getting nothing out of the draft/D-league scrap heap since 2013 that would have been developed into reliable rotational players in their spots is killing us big time...

Let's excuse the LMA signing, but doubling down on it with TOSB Pau instead of filling the play-making guard hole is flat out disgusting..

[Hoops Czar]

Tim Duncan wasn't just the greatest power forward of all time, he was the greatest player of all time because he duped everyone into thinking the Spurs were the smartest organization in professional sports when in actuality, they just rode Duncan's coattails until the wheels came off.

[Robz4000]

The LMA and DWorst signings were the right moves, but ignoring the awful backcourt in a league where backcourts reign supreme was and still is retarded. They're so set on countering the Dubs that they've made themselves weaker overall and have severely limited their ability to improve for the next two-three years.

[BillMc]

This is ridiculous. If someone had told me five years ago that the first post-Duncan season would be at a 60 win pace and second in the league, we'd have all been thrilled. Does anybody remember the "we're doomed when Timmy's done" vibe of 2009 or 2010? Pop and RC aren't perfect, but they haven't had a lottery pick in 20 years. They've done an amazing job of keeping this team competitive. You can't replace ever piece instantly.

[Kawhitstorm]

This is ridiculous. If someone had told me five years ago that the first post-Duncan season would be at a 60 win pace and second in the league, we'd have all been thrilled. Does anybody remember the "we're doomed when Timmy's done" vibe of 2009 or 2010? Pop and RC aren't perfect, but they haven't had a lottery pick in 20 years. They've done an amazing job of keeping this team competitive. You can't replace ever piece instantly.

We have come full circle back to the Dick Jefferson "dark ages", the only thing that going to turn around the franchise is Murray being the next Kawhi.:lol

[Robz4000]

This is ridiculous. If someone had told me five years ago that the first post-Duncan season would be at a 60 win pace and second in the league, we'd have all been thrilled. Does anybody remember the "we're doomed when Timmy's done" vibe of 2009 or 2010? Pop and RC aren't perfect, but they haven't had a lottery pick in 20 years. They've done an amazing job of keeping this team competitive. You can't replace ever piece instantly.

This season is literally 2011 Part II Electric Bugaloo. Since when has being a regular season paper tiger become synonymous with competitiveness here?

[gambit1990]

pop reminded me of larry brown tonight. and not in a good way.



patty should be starting. i'm giving murray more burn than parker, see what he has.

people can cite what the spurs record is but i'm not interested in the regular season championship.

[SAGirl]

This is ridiculous. If someone had told me five years ago that the first post-Duncan season would be at a 60 win pace and second in the league, we'd have all been thrilled. Does anybody remember the "we're doomed when Timmy's done" vibe of 2009 or 2010? Pop and RC aren't perfect, but they haven't had a lottery pick in 20 years. They've done an amazing job of keeping this team competitive. You can't replace ever piece instantly.

Perhaps the calls they have made have been tilted in the wrong direction. They clearly paid Tony a ton assuming he wasn't going to decline steeply so quickly. They rely on Manu still for most of their playmaking, until turning that to Kawhi too this season, a great player for whom that is one of the few things he is not great at.

They kept drafting forwards and bigs (Bertans, Livio, Kyle, Milutinov, etc) in the first round to only now look at guards in 2016. Granted they had Cojo, but it was visible they weren't going to resign him. He was too good to be a 3rd string guard at 23-24 yrs of age when one knew his best seasons were still ahead of him. He was going to be gone.

It's really these past couple of off-seasons that I think they needed to start replenishing guard play... developing. Maybe even as soon as Cojo was unable to be resigned...

Just the direction they have gone in the past couple of seasons make one think they could have addressed other areas.... but FA depends on guys being available and willing to play for you, etc. However, the Spurs set their priorities.

[spursistan]

The LMA and DWorst signings were the right moves, but ignoring the awful backcourt in a league where backcourts reign supreme was and still is retarded. They're so set on countering the Dubs that they've made themselves weaker overall and have severely limited their ability to improve for the next two-three years.

Pretty much this..and they won't make it to the Warriors for a third consecutive post-season..Time for PATFO to look themselves in the mirror..The Pau signing in particular seemed like wink-wink deal way before FA unfolded..I agree with what Kawhitstorm (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=49655) said in the other thread: loyalty deals and headscratching TOSB signings are more the work of Pop than RC..Poop didn't bother with his age and the analytical lowdown on him from his Chicago tenure, but certainly loved his worldly company, Hi-iQ, coachability etc..

[MaNu4Tres]

Bump..


Let's excuse the LMA signing, but doubling down on it with TOSB Pau instead of filling the play-making guard hole is flat out disgusting..

All true, however, who is to say they didn't try to improve guard play? Just because it didn't pan out, doesn't mean they didn't try. It was an obvious weakness last year, so I highly doubt they went into last summer thinking the PG position was a strength.

And I'm not talking about FA. I'm talking about potential trades for like Jeff Teague ( Boris/Mills could have worked but Hawks got a better offer from Indiana).

The Gasol signing was dumb from the get go. But hey, it was the best " talent" they cld afford even if the talent was old, dull and in the wrong areas ( not defensive talent).

[spursistan]

All true, however, who is to say they didn't try to improve guard play? Just because it didn't pan out, doesn't mean they didn't try. It was an obvious weakness last year, so I highly doubt they went into last summer thinking the PG position was a strength.

An insurance, minimum pay, veteran type PGs (Felton for example who came off a solid playoffs series) could been had instead of Forbes on the roster..Jeremy Lin (3 years/ $36M) wouldn't have been bad either instead of Gasol..They seemed hell-bent on singing Pau no matter; Marc Gasol stopped short of saying "My bro is going to SA, I guarantee" as early as June..He knew what's up.

[MaNu4Tres]

An insurance, minimum pay, veteran type PGs (Felton for example who came off a solid playoffs series) could been had instead of Forbes on the roster..Jeremy Lin (3 years/ $36M) wouldn't have been bad either instead of Gasol..They seemed hell-bent on singing Pau no matter; Marc Gasol stopped short of saying "My bro is going to SA, I guarantee" as early as June..He knew what's up.

Lin made little sense in FA, unless they traded Parker or Mills. No sense having Parker, Mills, Lin and Murray. IMO.

They should have traded Mills/Diaw for an upgrade at PG around the draft ( before FA) if they were going to improve the position. The thing is, they might have tried and whiffed ( we don't know).

But I think it made little sense in using majority or all the space for more competition at point guard when they had Parker and Mills already. Aldridge was the only big on the roster, they had to address it. I just wish they used the space differently than Gasol.

My wish for the offseason initially was to trade Diaw/Mills for Teague around the draft then use cap space to go after Harkless and a Plumlee type ( which they did in Dedmon), and nab Gibson off the Bulls when his value was at rock bottom ( Chicago was looking to get rid of him ).

[GSH]

This is ridiculous. If someone had told me five years ago that the first post-Duncan season would be at a 60 win pace and second in the league, we'd have all been thrilled. Does anybody remember the "we're doomed when Timmy's done" vibe of 2009 or 2010? Pop and RC aren't perfect, but they haven't had a lottery pick in 20 years. They've done an amazing job of keeping this team competitive. You can't replace ever piece instantly.


You know, Bill, it's not just the loss last night - it's the way they looked doing it. The two starting bigs both look soft and almost disinterested at times. With Danny and Kawhi on the floor, they ought to be giving opposing backcourts holy hell.

I'll be honest - I'd rather watch a .500 team that plays with a lot of heart. For most of this season, this team just hasn't been very fun to watch. And I don't get a sense of huge motivation. I know people like to say that's on the players, and not Pop. But I don't remember seeing him get onto Pau or LMA the way he would with Tim. And if you say, "Well, Tim was special" then we've come full circle.

You clearly still have high expectations for this team. If everyone here really expected this to be a 40-win team, after losing Duncan, then they probably wouldn't be disappointed right now.

[Kawhitstorm]

Lin made little sense in FA, unless they traded Parker or Mills. No sense having Parker, Mills, Lin and Murray. IMO.

It always comes back to Porker & his shitty contract which is by far the worst on any of the top 10 teams in the league. Pau can at least be a decent backup but Porker is completely TOSB at a position where you can't have a TOSB player.


My wish for the offseason initially was to trade Diaw/Mills for Teague around the draft then use cap space to go after Harkless and a Plumlee type ( which they did in Dedmon), and nab Gibson off the Bulls when his value was at rock bottom ( Chicago was looking to get rid of him ).

There were talks of the Raptors wanting Taj but the Bulls demanded Patterson & a 1st rd pick. I really doubt they were JUST trying to salary dump Taj. We're talking about the same Bulls that held off trading Pau/Noah b/c they overvalue their assets & would rather be a .500 team than rebuilding.

[dabom]

You know, Bill, it's not just the loss last night - it's the way they looked doing it. The two starting bigs both look soft and almost disinterested at times. With Danny and Kawhi on the floor, they ought to be giving opposing backcourts holy hell.

I'll be honest - I'd rather watch a .500 team that plays with a lot of heart. For most of this season, this team just hasn't been very fun to watch. And I don't get a sense of huge motivation. I know people like to say that's on the players, and not Pop. But I don't remember seeing him get onto Pau or LMA the way he would with Tim. And if you say, "Well, Tim was special" then we've come full circle.

You clearly still have high expectations for this team. If everyone here really expected this to be a 40-win team, after losing Duncan, then they probably wouldn't be disappointed right now.

We blew out gsw. Stop being a little crying bitch. :lmao

[MaNu4Tres]

There were talks of the Raptors wanting Taj but the Bulls demanded Patterson & a 1st rd pick. I really doubt they were JUST trying to salary dump Taj. We're talking about the same Bulls that held off trading Pau/Noah b/c they overvalue their assets & would rather be a .500 team than rebuilding.

You got a link for that? Or is that another one of your subjective facts?

Taj had a bad year last year, his value was at the lowest it had ever been.

[Kawhitstorm]

You got a link for that? Or is that another one of your subjective facts?

Just another FACT for you to twist around as one of my "subjective" shticks.


That had the two sides considering a trade, reported by Zach Lowe of ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14783975/the-nba-trade-deadline-full-big-names-cap-questions), but those talks stalled. He goes on to discuss the challenges Toronto faces in making that upgrade they want to see at the four.
Chicago and Toronto had initial discussions on a Taj Gibson (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nba/1628/taj-gibson)–Patrick Patterson (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nba/1722/patrick-patterson) swap that would give Chicago yet another stretch power forward and trim its tax bill, but those discussions appear to have led nowhere so far….


You can understand why (Raptors GM Masai) Ujiri might be wary of trading a first-round pick for Ryan Anderson (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nba/1488/ryan-anderson), Thaddeus Young (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nba/1367/thaddeus-young), Gibson, Kenneth Faried (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nba/1848/kenneth-faried) or Markieff Morris (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nba/1843/markieff-morris). None of those guys changes your life as a franchise…. Horford is a different story. It would take almost everything in the Toronto’s arsenal to get him, but if they manage it, the Raps would have a good chance of re-signing him, sources say. Still, such a bold move is unlikely.





Taj had a bad year last year, his value was at the lowest it had ever been.

Meanwhile, TOSB Noah's value was the highest it had ever been when he was getting benched for Taj & bitching about it.:lol

[BillMc]

You know, Bill, it's not just the loss last night - it's the way they looked doing it. The two starting bigs both look soft and almost disinterested at times. With Danny and Kawhi on the floor, they ought to be giving opposing backcourts holy hell.

I'll be honest - I'd rather watch a .500 team that plays with a lot of heart. For most of this season, this team just hasn't been very fun to watch. And I don't get a sense of huge motivation. I know people like to say that's on the players, and not Pop. But I don't remember seeing him get onto Pau or LMA the way he would with Tim. And if you say, "Well, Tim was special" then we've come full circle.

You clearly still have high expectations for this team. If everyone here really expected this to be a 40-win team, after losing Duncan, then they probably wouldn't be disappointed right now.

I'm not going to argue. A lot of your points could be valid about motivation and i can't refute them. Some of the body language isn't so great. I admit it. However, I DO think people are a little hard on Pau. He's 36 and was never a terrific defender. Now, he's lost a lot of lateral quickness. But, I don't see lack of effort as others do. I see lack of speed. He's really the third best offensive player we have behind Kawhi (and some nights) Patty. With the lack of skilled bigs in this league he DOES bring things to the table that seem unappreciated on ST. Frankly, he's looked better in December than LMA.

My greater point is it Year 1 AD (After Duncan) and how many teams would you take in a series over the Spurs on a neutral court (if such thing existed)?

Golden State. (Okay, they're a super team and should be favored, but we match up with them better than anyone except maybe Cleveland).

The Clips (I'd favor them only because of our poor matchups. But they've got a ton of their own problems and could just as easily flame out round 1 or be on the other side of the bracket and gobbled up by GSW or even Memphis). They're an obstacle but a flawed one.

Those are the only definite ones. 2 whole teams. You can make an argument for the Cavs. I personally doubt it, but for the sake of argument, let's add them. So at worst there are 3 teams who'd be favored in a series against us? And everyone is doom and gloom here? Yes, Houston, and perhaps the Raptors could give us trouble, but they wouldn't be favored. Neither would Memphis, OKC or Utah. And no one else is worth mentioning.

So, I think we've got a real chance at the WCF and with some breaks could go to the Finals and win it. So, Pop, RC and our much-maligned players must be doing something right.

Have faith folks!:toast

[MaNu4Tres]

Just another FACT for you to twist around as one of my "subjective" shticks.





Meanwhile, TOSB Noah's value was the highest it had ever been when he was getting benched for Taj & bitching about it.:lol

No where did it say Patterson AND a 1st. The article and other articles said Patterson for Taj swap, but of course Raptors didn't accept it. They were the 2nd best team in the East and Patterson was the better player on essentially the same contract. The article was from Feb last year, and at the time Gibson was having the worst year of his career.

[Kawhitstorm]

Pretty much this..and they won't make it to the Warriors for a third consecutive post-season..Time for PATFO to look themselves in the mirror..The Pau signing in particular seemed like wink-wink deal way before FA unfolded..I agree with what Kawhitstorm (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=49655) said in the other thread: loyalty deals and headscratching TOSB signings are more the work of Pop than RC..Poop didn't bother with his age and the analytical lowdown on him from his Chicago tenure, but certainly loved his worldly company, Hi-iQ, coachability etc..

Might as well have signed Dwert if PATFO were going to shell out 16 mill on TOSB Pau, tbh.

TOSB Tyson Chandler is competes better than GaSoft:

F9DPdHYJHNU

[Kawhitstorm]

No where did it say Patterson AND a 1st. The article and other articles said Patterson for Taj swap, but of course Raptors didn't accept it. They were the 2nd best team in the East and Patterson was the better player on essentially the same contract. The article was from Feb last year, and at the time Gibson was having the worst year of his career.

Lowe mentioned the Raptors wouldn't be willing to give up a 1st rd pick for Taj b/c the Bulls had ALWAYS made it clear they want a 1st rd pick no matter what::rolleyes

700015167329984512


Bulls seeking Patrick Patterson and first round pick for Taj Gibson

“Conflicting stories exist whether the Bulls or Raptors initiated talks centered on a Gibson for Patrick Patterson deal. However, the Bulls did ask for the lesser of the Raptors’ two first-round picks in those talks, regardless who initiated them, a source said.” – KC Johnson

[spursistan]

It always comes back to Porker & his shitty contract which is by far the worst on any of the top 10 teams in the league. Pau can at least be a decent backup but Porker is completely TOSB at a position where you can't have a TOSB player.


The Parker contract extension was handed was out on loyalty terms, but also on the idea that 2013-2014 was only a down year he would bounce back from. I wonder how much of that would have changed had PATFO known that TP would completely falloff cliff into unplayable, end-of-bench TOSB status..

[gambit1990]

It always comes back to Porker & his shitty contract
nigga wants to play five more years... can't even average 5 assists in 25 minutes.

[Kawhitstorm]

The Parker contract extension was handed was out on loyalty terms, but also on the idea that 2013-2014 was only a down year he would bounce back from. I wonder how much of that would have changed had PATFO known that TP would completely falloff cliff into unplayable, end-of-bench TOSB status..

When is the last time a point guard dependent on speed & quickness had a bounce back season in their 30s?:lol

Also the MAIN issue is the LENGTH of his contract rather than the money, paying him 2yr/30 mill would have been more reasonable than 3yrs/43 considering he already had a year left on his contract.

[MaNu4Tres]

Lowe mentioned the Raptors wouldn't be willing to give up a 1st rd pick for Taj b/c the Bulls had ALWAYS made it clear they want a 1st rd pick no matter what::rolleyes

700015167329984512

Real question based on common sense. Do you think Bulls or any team trying to get rid of a player would ever have a realistic asking price at the start of negotiations? Of course they will ask for the highest possible return. It's called negotiations. The team proposing always starts at its highest high of an asking price.

After obviously being turned down from that high asking price of a 1st and PP, and then being turned down for just a PP for Taj swap in February, you would think by the summer, the Bulls asking price would be lower, no?

Also, when they tweeted about Bulls asking for a 1st and a player, that player could have been of any quality, likely poor quality or way below bad Taj quality for that proposal ( player + 1st) to be reasonable. No way a player of Pattersons' quality and a 1st was reasonable for Taj at the time. Common sense says Bulls were bluffing or they're idiots. Bulls had time on their side with upcoming offseason, so asking high at the time and not budging is understandable. However, the time I'm talking about kicking tires with Taj was this past July, not February. Different time and different ball game from February.

[Kawhitstorm]

However, the time I'm talking about kicking tires with Taj was this past July, not February. Different time and different ball game from February.
Why in the hell would they be more eager to trade Taj in July AFTER they lost Noah/Pau, in a salary dump no less?:wakeup

[MaNu4Tres]

Why in the hell would they be more eager to trade Taj in July AFTER they lost Noah/Pau, in a salary dump no less?:wakeup

Noah & Pau are Cs. They traded for Lopez and had Felicio ready for back up C minutes.

Gibson plays PF. Trading Gibson would have opened up minutes for Portis-- who they are high on.

Gibson just impedes his progression. Thats why they wont re-sign Gibson.

And thats why Gibson will likely be on the block again once Bulls realize they have no shot.

[spursistan]

Might as well have signed Dwert if PATFO were going to shell out 16 mill on TOSB Pau, tbh.

TOSB Tyson Chandler is competes better than GaSoft:

F9DPdHYJHNU

812120307397890048

I knew Poop was probably besotted by Pau for non-actual basketball or roster fit reasons..Good luck with the "bench Pau" campaign, let alone "trade him" :lol..

This is a Pop signing written all over it...

[Kawhitstorm]

Noah & Pau are Cs. They traded for Lopez and had Felicio ready for back up C minutes.

Gibson plays PF. Trading Gibson would have opened up minutes for Portis-- who they are high on.

Portis has been a disaster on defense & Felicio wasn't getting minutes until Portis dropped out of the rotation. Those two are like Fat Head/Simmons & the Bulls probably saw enough of Taj busting Portis' ass in practice to realize he ain't the dude you pair up w/ space cadet Mirotic.

During training camp, they were saying Taj had been their best big thus wouldn't trade him even if it jacked up their spacing. (Not that they cared considering they signed Rondo to be paired up w/ Wade::lol)


Gibson just impedes his progression. Thats why they wont re-sign Gibson.

And thats why Gibson will likely be on the block again once Bulls realize they have no shot.

Based on the Bulls history, they are going to let him walk in the summer just like everyone else not named Rose.:lol

[poeticism707]

This is ridiculous. If someone had told me five years ago that the first post-Duncan season would be at a 60 win pace and second in the league, we'd have all been thrilled. Does anybody remember the "we're doomed when Timmy's done" vibe of 2009 or 2010? Pop and RC aren't perfect, but they haven't had a lottery pick in 20 years. They've done an amazing job of keeping this team competitive. You can't replace ever piece instantly.

This and this.

[Kawhitstorm]

812120307397890048

I knew Poop was probably besotted by Pau for non-actual basketball or roster fit reasons..Good luck with the "bench Pau" campaign, let alone "trade him" :lol..

This is a Pop signing written all over it...

Yeah he hand picked a European coach to be his assistant over Udoka b/c the former is "well cultured".:lol

[MaNu4Tres]

Portis has been a disaster on defense & Felicio wasn't getting minutes until Portis dropped out of the rotation. Those two are like Fat Head/Simmons & the Bulls probably saw enough of Taj busting Portis' ass in practice to realize he ain't the dude you pair up

The problem with your response is that we are not talking about this year.

The whole conversation is based on last years set of variables.

What you just said is irrelevant to the conversation.

[Kawhitstorm]

The problem with your response is that we are not talking about this year.

The whole conversation is based on last years set of variables.

What you just said is irrelevant to the conversation.

Portis was shitty on defense last season, his talent is on offense. If Portis was as good as you make him seem then they would just start him & bring Taj off the bench like he had been doing for the majority of his career. Meanwhile, dude has played his way out of the rotation like Fat Head.

If the Raptors had agreed to do the Taj/Patterson swap then Patterson would basically have been their starting 4. The only minute Portis can get is if Mirotic is traded since he can also stretch the floor & Felicio is good enough to cover his ass on defense against backups.