What impact will new Spurs make?

[Kori Ellis]

What impact will new Spurs make?
http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=2159522&type=story

By John Hollinger
ESPN Insider

"It's over."

That's been the sentiment around the league ever since the Spurs announced the signings of Michael Finley and Nick Van Exel. Magic Johnson, for instance, expressed those exact words to the San Antonio Express-News last week.

Can Mike Finley help the Spurs win title No. 4?

"They remind me of the Lakers when we were winning championships back in the 1980s," Johnson said. "They just play the game and play to win. Nick and Finley will add to that, and I think they're going to win it again. They've added two great role players that can come in off the bench and add firepower."

Johnson isn't alone in that opinion. The Spurs hardly needed any help after winning their third title in seven seasons, especially with key players like Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker in their respective primes. Plus, they pulled off an unusual coup for a championship team by retaining every key player.

The acquisitions of Finley, Van Exel and Argentine big man Fabricio Oberto seem to make the Spurs an even more daunting obstacle for Western Conference foes. But here's the question for the other contenders: How much will the new guys help? Do the additions make the Spurs overwhelming favorites to repeat as champions? Or do teams like the Heat, Pistons and Suns still have a fighting chance?


To examine that question, let's take a closer look at the players the Spurs added and how they'll fit into the larger puzzle. Finley, for instance, had a solid if unspectacular season a year ago. Using my Player Efficiency Rating (PER, my measure of a player's per-minute statistical production), Finley's rating of 14.34 was slightly below the league average for a shooting guard. He was better the two previous seasons, at 17.55 and 17.81, but now that he's 32 one can probably expect a PER of around 15.00 this season. In fact, the projections in this year's "Pro Basketball Forecast" (shameless plug alert) see Finley with a PER of 14.95.

If that's the case, then Finley may not add much to the equation for San Antonio. The two players he's taking minutes from are Brent Barry and Devin Brown (who departed for Utah once Finley had taken his spot). Barry's PER last season was 14.01 while Brown's was 14.57. Barry had been even better than Finley the two years before, and he projects to have a slightly higher PER this season at 14.96. Brown's numbers don't project quite as well (13.92), but the difference between him and Finley is small (see chart). Considering the slim margin between the players, one has to wonder if the impact of Finley's addition will be as great as some think.

The same goes for the procurement of Van Exel, who at this point in his career is markedly inferior to the Spurs' other point guards. Nick the formerly Quick clearly has no chance of unseating incumbent Tony Parker, but even backup Beno Udrih seems to have the upper hand. Udrih's PER of 14.24 last season was substantially better than Van Exel's 12.47, and because of Van Exel's arthritic knees, Udrih also is a superior defender. While Van Exel provides some comfort as a third point man should one of the top two suffer an injury, it seems doubtful he'll play enough to significantly alter the Spurs' fortunes.

That leaves us with the final piece of San Antonio's puzzle, Oberto. Though the least heralded of San Antonio's offseason pickups, he could be the most important. Based on his European stats, Oberto's projected PER of 14.55 would be a big improvement from what the Spurs got last year from reserve big men Rasho Nesterovic and Tony Massenburg. Those two players combined to play nearly 2,500 minutes a year ago, including some key moments in the playoffs. Having Oberto replace them as the Spurs' fourth big man (behind Duncan, Nazr Mohammed and Robert Horry) should result in improved production from that spot for the 10 to 20 minutes he's on the court each night.

However, there might be a large difference between Oberto and Nesterovic at the defensive end. Oberto is the shortest of the Spurs' frontcourt players and didn't put up impressive shot-blocking or rebounding numbers in Europe, while the 7-foot Nesterovic was an underrated force as a shot-blocker in the middle. While Oberto is certain to provide drastic offensive improvement, he'll give some of that back at the defensive end.

Overall, then, the additions of Finley, Van Exel and Oberto to a championship nucleus sound impressive, but the real impact might be smaller than people expect. Finley's prime offensive skills are 3-point shooting and avoiding turnovers, two things that Barry already does exceptionally well. And while any NBA exec would trade Devin Brown for Finley in a heartbeat, the two are close enough in ability that it's not likely to affect San Antonio's win-loss record very much. Meanwhile, the other newbies might have trouble just getting on the floor. Van Exel shapes up as the team's sixth-best guard (behind Parker, Udrih, Ginobili, Barry and Finley), while Oberto gets in line behind Big Shot Bob for minutes off the bench in the Spurs' frontcourt.

This isn't to say the three signings will have no impact. Certainly they improve San Antonio's ability to withstand injuries, for instance, and adding Finley also keeps him away from the Spurs' rivals. In the end, that might be the most important impact of all. While Finley would have solved desperate needs in Denver, Phoenix and, to a lesser extent, Miami, the Spurs already had a quartet of competent players to man his position. Thus, their addition of Finley and the others seems a bit like Bill Gates finding a nickel on the street -- yes, it's nice, but it really doesn't change the big picture much.

John Hollinger, author of "Pro Basketball Forecast 2005-06," writes for ESPN Insider.



PLAYER EFFICIENCY RATINGS
Player 2003-04 2004-05 Projected 2005-06
Wings
Michael Finley 17.81 14.34 14.95
Brent Barry 18.28 14.01 14.96
Devin Brown 13.10 14.57 13.92
Point Guards
Nick Van Exel 13.02 12.47 12.54
Tony Parker 15.60 17.97 16.22
Beno Udrih -- 14.24 14.48
Frontcourt
Fabricio Oberto -- -- 14.55
Rasho Nesterovic 15.27 12.00 13.43
Tony Massenburg 9.64 8.44 8.20

[Marcus Bryant]

If that's the case, then Finley may not add much to the equation for San Antonio. The two players he's taking minutes from are Brent Barry and Devin Brown (who departed for Utah once Finley had taken his spot). Barry's PER last season was 14.01 while Brown's was 14.57. Barry had been even better than Finley the two years before, and he projects to have a slightly higher PER this season at 14.96. Brown's numbers don't project quite as well (13.92), but the difference between him and Finley is small (see chart). Considering the slim margin between the players, one has to wonder if the impact of Finley's addition will be as great as some think.

Awesome. Simply awesome.

[sa_butta]

Interesting article, Im sure alot of people did not look at it that way.

[batman2883]

I think with the new Spurs we added this season we in no doubt have the first chance of winning the title over any other team...for the title is ours to lose. If you notice all we gained were playoff saavy players who can give an emotional spark to the team when we need it. NVE is a player that will explode on the court if he comes in pissed enough....which could come in handy should the Spurs have a mental collapse in a series....like we have all witnessed before. Finley isnt a sure shooter all the time and he does get cold but he has been to the playoffs many of times and is a proven veteran...as for Oberto....we have yet to see him play in the NBA but im sure he'll do more than just hand out gatorade and wave a towel like Rasho...

[Marcus Bryant]

These efficiency measures are nice and useful, but there are still player qualities that it fails to capture. For example, 'clutchness'. Another would be consistency. Also, experience.

I'd expect Finley to be more likely to have a big game off the bench than Barry.

[batman2883]

thank you Marcus thats exactly what my post was trying to get at...the fact that they bring so much more to the team than just stats..

[1Parker1]

as for Oberto....we have yet to see him play in the NBA but im sure he'll do more than just hand out gatorade and wave a towel like Rasho...


Angel_Luv is somwhere showing you the finger right now....:lol

[td4mvp3]

i do question how, one one hand, the players aren't likely to add much to the spurs, while, at least in regards to finley, had he gone elsewhere it would have been a big help to those teams. if he's good enough to bump up someone else's lineup, why would he be such a nonfactor for the spurs?

[Solid D]

These efficiency measures are nice and useful, but there are still player qualities that it fails to capture. For example, 'clutchness'. Another would be consistency. Also, experience.

I'd expect Finley to be more likely to have a big game off the bench than Barry.

Very good.

I wonder what Steve Kerr's efficiency rating was prior to Tony Parker eating that bad Souffl'ee in Dallas? I doubt it was all that impressive.

[1Parker1]

i do question how, one one hand, the players aren't likely to add much to the spurs, while, at least in regards to finley, had he gone elsewhere it would have been a big help to those teams. if he's good enough to bump up someone else's lineup, why would he be such a nonfactor for the spurs?


That is exactly what I was thinking when I read it! I think his point was that the Spurs are already great and loaded with talent, with or without those additions.

[1Parker1]

Very good.

I wonder what Steve Kerr's efficiency rating was prior to Tony Parker eating that bad Souffl'ee in Dallas? I doubt it was all that impressive.


:lol Very true. I still believe that was divine intervention that got Parker sick that night!

[batman2883]

Angel_Luv is somwhere showing you the finger right now....:lol


Oh she probably is...but thats the way the cookie crumbles...

[boutons]

Finley as clutch?

See Fin disappear in the DAL/PHX series last spring. See Fin's playoff stats vs his season stats FOREVER. Fin is a scorer who steps his scoring DOWN in the post-season.

As Tim said, "we'd like to have you, but we don't need you". yawn

Fin will have some impact in the season, but very probably won't be as hot as Devin was last autumn. And, based on Fin's playoff history, esp recently, it'll be Gatorade/towels for him after mid-April 06.

Oh, and his "defense" at _allas was spectacular. :)

Nick, if his athritis/pain pills work, is much more of an addition, if he can play like he did in the playoffs 03.

[1Parker1]

Finley as clutch?

See Fin disappear in the DAL/PHX series last spring. See Fin's playoff stats vs his season stats FOREVER.

As Tim said, "we'd like to have you, but we don't need you". yawn

Fin will have some impact in the season, but very probably won't be as hot as Devin was last autumn. And, based on Fin's playoff history, esp recently, it'll be Gatorade/towels for him after mid-April 06.

Oh, and his "defense" at _allas was spectacular. :)

What impact did Devin have exactly last autumn? Are you trying to tell me that Devin>Finley?

[mikester]

Hollinger is just another in a long line of Spurs haters. To him it's all about numbers,
not intangibles.

[boutons]

Look at Devin's per-game stats last Nov and Dec. Excellent. Huge progress vs previous season. But not mind-blowing like a rested, sensational Manu was last November.

Finley of few years ago was clearly better than Devin of today.
I agree with the article that the Fin of today vs Devin is pretty much a wash.

Fin and Spree are pretty much at the same point of their careers, and basically way down from their peaks.

I'm not against FIn. If he helps, wonderfully welcome, but I will be surprised.
I'd much rather be surprised by Brent giving us his 05 playoff contribution all this season.

[50 cent]

These efficiency measures are nice and useful, but there are still player qualities that it fails to capture. For example, 'clutchness'. Another would be consistency. Also, experience.

I'd expect Finley to be more likely to have a big game off the bench than Barry.

I completely agree with you on that one (amazing, huh?). Would you rather have NVE bringing the ball up the court in Game#7 of the Finals with 12.47 PER or Beno with his 14.42 PER?

I'll take NVE.

[Useruser666]

Devin is awsome for 4 minutes. Finely is above average for 28.

[GhostofAlfrederickHughes]

Hollinger is just another in a long line of Spurs haters. To him it's all about numbers,
not intangibles.
I don't think Hollinger is really a 'Spur-hater.' I think he's just think his use of stats here is a bit misguided. He forgets that the Spurs, more than most teams, rely on a SYSTEM that simply requires each player to contribute to varying degrees on any given night. On a team like this, it really boils down to how these guys fit into the rotation, etc. Hard to measure that on any scale, let alone Hollinger's "magical" PVR.

He's probably right, the Spurs don't suddenly become a 70 win, juggernaut team just because of the Finley/NVE signings. But they DO become a deeper, more versatile, and dangerous team. And even he doesn't dispute that.

[1Parker1]

Devin is awsome for 4 minutes. Finely is above average for 28.


:tu

[boutons]

Fin won't get 28 MPG this season as the crowded swing position, and certainly not in the playoffs, so the comment could be true, but it's irrelevant.

Fin has a huge adjustment to make coming off the bench and being ready/able to score cold, as 2nd or 3rd option.

The Spurs won it all without Devin, they can win it without Fin.

[Marcus Bryant]

Fin won't get 28 MPG this season as the crowded swing position, and certainly not in the playoffs, so the comment could be true, but it's irrelevant.

The rotation is likely to thin out come the postseason. A minutes breakdown at the 2 and 3 like:

SG Ginobili.....34
SF Bowen......34

SG/SF Finley...28

would not be surprising.

[spurster]

I expect Finley to provide steady scoring rather than clutch shooting and about the opposite from van Exel. I expect hustle from Oberto, working on defense, getting rebounds and putbacks, and actually catching passes.

[Spurminator]

and actually catching passes.

How sweet would that be...

One of the many little things this team has missed since Robinson left.

[Oscar DeLa]

I don't know what it is but Finley is going to be good

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

According to the quadratic equation if Nick Van Exel and Michael Finley lay down on the floor at a 45 degree angle Oberto will fit perfectly as a hypotenuse. Formulas mean exactly jack shit to me. This isn't fantasy basketball. Nick and Finley are going to be what they've always been, and Oberto is still a question mark in my mind until I see him play in the NBA.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'd need to run the numbers to empirically prove this, but I think the key thing with Finley over Brown is the consistency thing from a scoring standpoint.

Devin, to me, is a bit like Charles "Spider" Smith was in 2002.

Smith had a number of really spectacular games in which he looked like an offensive and defensive juggernaut. And in the end, his season numbers in 2002 ended up looking decent -- until you dug a bit deeper. Once you went behind the numbers, you found that some outrageous percentage of Smith's total points (61%) came from 18 games in which he averaged 15.0 ppg, or 25.97 points per 48 minutes (to control for minutes). In the other 42 games that he played in that year, Smith averaged 4.1 ppg, or 12.8 points per 48 minutes. That's a pretty radical swing and evidence of a substantial inconsistency, I'd say.

I ran Devin's numbers and 269 of his 494 points (54%) came in 15 games of the 67 games he played in last season. In those 15 games, Devin put up 29.4 points per 48 minutes. But in the other 52 games, Devin averaged 4.3 ppg and 13.5 points per 48 minutes. Again, that's a pretty good sample and is indicative of a fairly large disparity (inconsistency).

The bulk of Finley's points (82%) came in 42 of the 67 games in which he played last season (excluding the 22 games in which he scored 12 points or fewer). In those 42 games ("good games"), Finley averaged 19.6 ppg and 24.0 points per 48 minutes. In the 22 games in which he scored 12 or fewer points, his numbers weren't great, 8.2 ppg and 12.1 points per 48 minutes.

Certainly, there's some inconsistency with every player. This isn't intended to be a fool-proof stat, but in a pinch, I think it tends to suffice. The difference here is that Finley's good scoring games are far more common than his bad scoring games and in those good games, he plays very well. By contrast, Devin's bad scoring games are more common than his good scoring games.

Finley is here to provide consistent offense that the Spurs bench desperately lacked and based on the numbers, he's far more likely to provide that on a regular basis than Devin was.

[tekdragon]

What he said.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I think it will be about if Finley is ready to play hard nosed D and come out and put a few points on the board. I've heard from a few how Finley sucks at D, and never was good. I've heard from a few others how he used to be a good physical defender, but age has slowed down his step.

I'm not a Finley or Mavericks fan, so I don't know which is true.

But hopefully he used to play some decent D, so that when he steps out onto the SA floor, he's ready to give it his all on the Defensive end, then come right back and make something happen. I think its possible since he'll be going up against other team's second units mostly, but it wont be unexpected to get the usual "adjustment time"

I dont think it will take him that long to adjust since AJ was stressing D in dallas towards the end of last season.

So I expect Finley to be a solid contributor if he stays healthy.

NVE is a given, imo, he will make the league's backup pointguards look silllllly....what he's lost in athletecism, he has in savvy, cunning, guile, etc, so Pop will just live with his poor D, and minimize it in the team defensive schemes.

[Rick Von Braun]

I'd need to run the numbers to empirically prove this, but I think the key thing with Finley over Brown is the consistency thing from a scoring standpoint.

Devin, to me, is a bit like Charles "Spider" Smith was in 2002.

Smith had a number of really spectacular games in which he looked like an offensive and defensive juggernaut. And in the end, his season numbers in 2002 ended up looking decent -- until you dug a bit deeper. Once you went behind the numbers, you found that some outrageous percentage of Smith's total points (61%) came from 18 games in which he averaged 15.0 ppg, or 25.97 points per 48 minutes (to control for minutes). In the other 42 games that he played in that year, Smith averaged 4.1 ppg, or 12.8 points per 48 minutes. That's a pretty radical swing and evidence of a substantial inconsistency, I'd say.

I ran Devin's numbers and 269 of his 494 points (54%) came in 15 games of the 67 games he played in last season. In those 15 games, Devin put up 29.4 points per 48 minutes. But in the other 52 games, Devin averaged 4.3 ppg and 13.5 points per 48 minutes. Again, that's a pretty good sample and is indicative of a fairly large disparity (inconsistency).

The bulk of Finley's points (82%) came in 42 of the 67 games in which he played last season (excluding the 22 games in which he scored 12 points or fewer). In those 42 games ("good games"), Finley averaged 19.6 ppg and 24.0 points per 48 minutes. In the 22 games in which he scored 12 or fewer points, his numbers weren't great, 8.2 ppg and 12.1 points per 48 minutes.

Certainly, there's some inconsistency with every player. This isn't intended to be a fool-proof stat, but in a pinch, I think it tends to suffice. The difference here is that Finley's good scoring games are far more common than his bad scoring games and in those good games, he plays very well. By contrast, Devin's bad scoring games are more common than his good scoring games.

Finley is here to provide consistent offense that the Spurs bench desperately lacked and based on the numbers, he's far more likely to provide that on a regular basis than Devin was.
Nice analysis FWD. Let me encourage you to continue in that analytical path and suggest to correlate the ppg and pp48 with minutes per game, and FGA/g in those games.

A drastic drop in ppg means very little if a player played few minutes. Perhaps the number of FG attempts he used in those minutes he played is even more important that actual minutes played.

Playing around with those variables will allow you to find a much better metric for player scoring consistency and efficiency.

[Vashner]

I didn't want Finley. So I promised to eat Crow.. well Dove with bacon wrap...
If he does real good.

[Marcus Bryant]

Finley's a guy who can come off the bench and drop 20 points easily. He's not going to get the level of touches to be able to do that often, but he's always a threat to, which will be a nice asset to have in the rotation.

Hopefully the Spurs can keep GRob on the cheap. The major issue for the Spurs heading into next season will be the health of the perimeter rotation. Having a guy like Robinson on the bench would be worthwhile, especially considering that the Spurs only have 4 true swingmen.

[yeahone]

well i agree with ceetain aspects of the artice but i personally beleive that finally will do good under our system becuase we arwe nto asking him to start jsut to come of the bench and play productuiive minuites to the team,,,i think finleys contribution cannot be measured in terms of stats,,,we also have to look at the intangibles he brings to this team,,,which is additional leadership experience.

[ducks]

another thing about big dog is if they resign him they should have his early bird for next year and be able to go over the cap to sign him

[Solid D]

FWD - your statistics could also be affected by a coach's usage of a player. Devin was often used based on matchups. Devin was also jerked out if he wasn't "on". Michael Finley was probably used a little less discriminately.

Those are minor points for a statistical skew, though.

[FromWayDowntown]

Nice analysis FWD. Let me encourage you to continue in that analytical path and suggest to correlate the ppg and pp48 with minutes per game, and FGA/g in those games.

A drastic drop in ppg means very little if a player played few minutes. Perhaps the number of FG attempts he used in those minutes he played is even more important that actual minutes played.

Playing around with those variables will allow you to find a much better metric for player scoring consistency and efficiency.

I thought about breaking it down with those other variables, since I know that they'll play some part in the explanations, but frankly, just didn't have time. My point is that, in real terms, the scoring output from a guy like Finley fluctuates far less than the scoring output from guys like Brown and Smith. It's not an altogether apt comparison other than the fact that the Spurs decision this summer came down to Finley or Devin, and I equate Devin with Charles Smith, offensively.

With a bit more time, I'll rework this to include the FGA, too.

[FromWayDowntown]

FWD - your statistics could also be affected by a coach's usage of a player. Devin was often used based on matchups. Devin was also jerked out if he wasn't "on". Michael Finley was probably used a little less discriminately.

Those are minor points for a statistical skew, though.

Completely agree, Solid D, that the statistics are far from perfect. I threw that together in about 15 minutes and wanted to at least find some numbers to support my perception. I'm certain that they don't account for many variables. I do think, though, that they tend to prove the broader point about consistent offensive output.

[Trainwreck2100]

Efficiency ratings use minutes, they won't get as many minutes so Fin and NVE at 75% in less minutes would up the rating.

[picnroll]

As I recall last season Devin started out pretty hot, he was effective with Beno early on, particularly running the break. Then he had a long stretch of sucking. Finally at the end of the season he started to pick up his game again just in time for his back to go out.

[Knoxville Spur]

The guy writing this probably thought Manu would do nothing in the NBA either. I don't put much stock in his opinion about Oberto.

[PM5K]

It's already been said but I have to totally agree, stats are only part of the equation in sports.

Unfortuantely we are dealing with the "preeminent statistical writer" in John Hollinger.

I actually think NVE has a very good chance of taking all of Benos minutes and maybe then some on certain nights, PFE, HEB, OPP, or whatever he calls it doesn't account for facts such as NVE having played almost as many playoff games as Beno has played regular season games, something like eighty to sixty. Or how clutch NVE is, hell NVE kept Dallas alive in the playoffs just a couple of years ago.

I don't even have to get into FIN....

Anyone have this guys email addy?

[LilMissSPURfect]

heck with all the mumble jumble...............

I AGREE.........IT's OVA !!!!!

[Rydia]

Very good.

I wonder what Steve Kerr's efficiency rating was prior to Tony Parker eating that bad Souffl'ee in Dallas? I doubt it was all that impressive.
I thought it was Creme Brulee, D. hahaha!

That guy is just going by stats... he needs to get off his horse...he's probably a Suns fan or something of this nature

:elephant

[z0sa]

all I have to say is, in my opinion, Oberto looks to be the SHIT... not MVP standards, I mean the perfect roleplaying center. Instead of pulling a rasho and flipping an air ball up hes gonna dunk with both hands and hes gonna pull down key rebounds and make a good pass to an open look here and there. and thats exactly what we need from him.

[Mavs<Spurs]

According to the quadratic equation if Nick Van Exel and Michael Finley lay down on the floor at a 45 degree angle Oberto will fit perfectly as a hypotenuse. Formulas mean exactly jack shit to me. This isn't fantasy basketball. Nick and Finley are going to be what they've always been, and Oberto is still a question mark in my mind until I see him play in the NBA.


Right on. That's hilarious. Especially as a math student, I appreciate that.

Well said, I only wish I had said it!
:fro

[Mavs<Spurs]

Finley's a guy who can come off the bench and drop 20 points easily. He's not going to get the level of touches to be able to do that often, but he's always a threat to, which will be a nice asset to have in the rotation.

Hopefully the Spurs can keep GRob on the cheap. The major issue for the Spurs heading into next season will be the health of the perimeter rotation. Having a guy like Robinson on the bench would be worthwhile, especially considering that the Spurs only have 4 true swingmen.


Sweet, didn't know that keeping GRob was still possible. I really hope we do!
:fro

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

I completely agree with you on that one (amazing, huh?). Would you rather have NVE bringing the ball up the court in Game#7 of the Finals with 12.47 PER or Beno with his 14.42 PER?

I'll take NVE.

Depends. Cause NVE takes bad shots.

[Obstructed_View]

I didn't see anyone mention this, but the thing many seem to be missing is the fact that the team has starting caliber talent so deep. Considering the ability of the three additions to play multiple positions, there's a lot of pressure on the opposing coaches to try to find a matchup to exploit. As a result, you might be able to look for Duncan's minutes to go down AGAIN this season, making him really fresh for the playoffs. That should scare the ever lovin' bejeezus out of everybody in the league.

[Obstructed_View]

I think it will be about if Finley is ready to play hard nosed D and come out and put a few points on the board. I've heard from a few how Finley sucks at D, and never was good. I've heard from a few others how he used to be a good physical defender, but age has slowed down his step.

I'm not a Finley or Mavericks fan, so I don't know which is true.

But hopefully he used to play some decent D, so that when he steps out onto the SA floor, he's ready to give it his all on the Defensive end, then come right back and make something happen. I think its possible since he'll be going up against other team's second units mostly, but it wont be unexpected to get the usual "adjustment time"

I dont think it will take him that long to adjust since AJ was stressing D in dallas towards the end of last season.

So I expect Finley to be a solid contributor if he stays healthy.

NVE is a given, imo, he will make the league's backup pointguards look silllllly....what he's lost in athletecism, he has in savvy, cunning, guile, etc, so Pop will just live with his poor D, and minimize it in the team defensive schemes.

Good points. Finley was an excellent defender at one point in his career, but he had a coach who doesn't exactly stress defense for seven years, so we haven't seen it for some time. He's two years younger than Bowen so he has no excuse for not being able to move his feet. Fin came from a "defense determines minutes" policy in Dallas to cushion the transition.

[GrandeDavid]

I like the Bill Gates finding a nickel on the street analogy. ha ha

[TDMVPDPOY]

82-0 boook it amd sweepin everyone for the championship. I can see it and ppl will still call us a fluke

[CaptainLate]

Hollinger is just another in a long line of Spurs haters. To him it's all about numbers, not intangibles.

The clown doesn't factor in what a Duncan does for other players. Finley and NVE have never enjoyed the experience of having a player of Duncan's caliber on their team. Hollinger will eat his words when we repeat.