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Buddy Mignon
07-15-2015, 12:37 AM
You see I'm only going to let you niggas have so much fun before I come laying down the law.



Greg Ostertag's Legendary Domination of Tim Duncan

7/11/2007


ESPN.com




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It has been the best line of summer league. Maurice Cheeks has used it. P.J. Carlesimo has used it. Every journalist here, practically, has quoted it.
It's a story about how great players can have terrible games in their first summer league. And the story is that Greg Ostertag killed Tim Duncan in his first summer league appearance.
I linked to such a quote, from Cheeks, the other day, and enterprising TrueHoop reader Cyn spent a day at the library going through old newspaper stories proving Cheeks wrong.
Cyn writes:
As for Ostertag 'killing' TD ... that's a matter of opinion.
Certainly the Utah team killed the combined summer league team of the Spurs and 76ers, as the final score was Jazz 85 and Spurs/76ers 59. Ouch.
Ostertag was a second year player. The article describes Ostertag as going up to slam a dunk on Duncan, but he hit the back rim instead.
Ostertag did block some of Tim's shots. The article doesn't specify how many but Ostertag had six blocks in the game.
Anyway, here are the boxscore lines from both players:


Tim Duncan 14 points/6 of 10 FG/8 rebs/3 assists/2 blocks
Greg Ostertag 21 points/7 of 12 FG/10 rebs/0 assists/5 blocks

Tim fouled out of the game getting his sixth foul at 2:52 of the fourth quarter. Maurice Cheeks got the game wrong (fifth not first) and while 'killed' might be harsh; Ostertag did get the better of Tim.

I appreciate the legwork, Cyn.
This story has been used to laugh off performances like Kevin Durant's 4 for 19 in his second game. I'm not worried about Kevin Durant's future. But I am worried about using a tale of a player who shot 60% from the floor to explain a player who shot 21%.
UPDATE: Tim Duncan spoke about that experience (http://slamonline.com/online/2007/07/links-and-they-say-the-nba-has-problems/) with Slam's Lang Whitaker: "Jermaine (O'Neal) destroyed me. He was with Portland, was real young ... and Tag threw my stuff into the first couple of rows a few times."

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/3635/greg-ostertag-s-legendary-domination-of-tim-duncan



Once Upon a Time…Tim Duncan Had the Summer League Blues (http://saltcityhoops.com/once-upon-a-time-tim-duncan-had-the-summer-league-blues-2/)

July 21st, 2013 | by Kyle Hunt (http://saltcityhoops.com/author/kylehunt/)


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http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/51c3deff69bedd2d6700000e-800-/170992005.jpg
Even the greatest NBA players of all time are susceptible to hunger, fatigue, the common cold, and streaky shooting in games of significant importance. But history teaches us that star athletes (and potential star athletes), are held to a higher standard of excellence than common citizens like you and I. With the weight of the world on their shoulders, these young players dive head first into the pressure cooker known as NBA summer league, often ill-prepared for the blistering heat that awaits them. Once upon a time, a player named Tim Duncan experienced his own version of NBA growing pains known as the summer league blues. This is his story.
It was only a few short weeks after draft day and Tim Duncan had already begun his intensive program of individual skill development, team drills, and physical training in preparation for the 1997 NBA summer league season. He had been highly coveted by teams all over the league after capping off an impressive four-year career with Wake Forest University the previous year, but in the end the San Antonio Spurs were the only ones lucky enough to land the Virgin Islands native. No one questioned Duncan’s superior talent in the weeks leading up to summer league, but fans and opponents still waited anxiously to see if he could meet the high expectations placed upon him. What later ensued would shock everyone in the basketball world, including Tim Duncan himself.
While matching up with Jermaine O’neal of the Portland Trailblazers, Duncan scored 12 points on 5/9 shooting and grabbed 7 rebounds, compared to O’neal’s 23 points on 8/13 shooting. The even bigger shock came when Greg Ostertag of the Utah Jazz made Duncan look like a school boy with little to no basketball experience. Oddly enough, Duncan scored only 14 points on 6/10 shooting, compared to Ostertag’s 21 points on 7/12 shooting to go along with 10 rebounds. No doubt, the Greg Ostertag pill was a tough one for Duncan to swallow. Duncan had come into summer league as the king of basketball, with all the potential in the world. He left with his head between his legs. But while the media began its debate about whether Tim Duncan should even be admitted into the NBA the following year, Duncan was already busy preparing to answer the criticism, which he later did when he took home NBA Rookie of the Year honors in 1998. As Duncan’s career drew on he added to his rookie success and managed to silence more doubters along the way, making 14 all-star appearances, winning two MVP’s, three finals MVP’s, and leading the San Antonio Spurs franchise to four championships in five NBA finals appearances.
Tim Duncan wasn’t the only one to transform believers into doubters during the summer months. Ten years after Duncan’s summer blues at the Rocky Mountain Revue, another hyped player burst onto the NBA stage ready to solidify himself as one of the best in the game. The Texas University alum Kevin Durant played admirably at times, but struggled for the better part of the 2007 summer league season, leading the media to lace words such as “disappointment” and “overrated” throughout their daily articles. In one blog post, The Wages of Win Journal respectfully reminded basketball fans that over the course of the summer league tournament in Vegas, Durant only managed to pull down eight rebounds in 137 minutes of play, a number surpassed by over 99 percent of NBA players in the previous 14 years. He also struggled to shoot well from the field, scoring only .73 points per field goal attempt, an average surpassed by over 96 percent of NBA players since 1993-1994. Though the numbers were surprising at the time, everyone knows that Durant, like Duncan before him, also found a way to beat the odds and reach his full potential. If the summer blunders of Durant and Duncan aren’t enough to shock you, think about Derrick Rose going 5/17 from the field in 2008 and Jrue Holiday going 15 for 39 in 2009. Barring the severe injury of Derrick Rose, the above mentioned players have panned out pretty well. So now we must wonder, what does this all say about the summertime woes of our own Trey Burke?
Everyone in Jazz land is still wondering what happened to Trey Burke’s game this summer. He definitely hasn’t performed like the Michigan wonder we know him to be, and even though no one can find any rhyme or reason behind his recent lack of success, everyone is still desperately searching for a descriptive answer to the situation. Only time will tell how this situation will play out, and I suggest you cut him some slack. Ask yourself if you believe Trey Burke is a bust waiting to be exposed; or if like Duncan, he’s just experiencing a minor bout of the summer league blues.

http://saltcityhoops.com/once-upon-a-time-tim-duncan-had-the-summer-league-blues-2/

Koolaid_Man
07-15-2015, 12:41 AM
LakaLuva

Splits
07-15-2015, 12:42 AM
Tim Duncan's Summer League 1997

Game 1

Dallas-78
San Antonio-77

Duncan 16 pts/8 of 13 FG/10 rbs/3 ast/5 blocks/31 minutes

Game 2

Seattle-91
San Antonio-101

Duncan 13 points/4 of 9 FG/6 rebs/5 ast/1 block/29 minutes

Game 3
Phoenix-84
San Antonio-76

I don't have boxscore as it was a late game so the San Antonio paper didn't have it. Nor did they print it the following day. Sorry. Maybe someone else can track it down.

Game 4

Portland-79
San Antonio-87

Duncan 12 points/5 of 9 FG/7 rebs/3 asts/5 blocks/26 minutes
J.O'Neal 23 points/8 of 13 FG/2 rebs/0 asts/0 blocks/31 minutes (Portland 2nd year)

Game 5

Utah-85
San Antonio-59

Duncan 14 points/6 of 10 FG/8 rebs/3 assists/2 blocks
Ostertag 21 points/7 of 12 FG/10 rebs/0 assists/5 blocks

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73672

Reck
07-15-2015, 12:47 AM
Learn to copy and paste naturo.

Splits
07-15-2015, 12:52 AM
Do, Tim Duncan's summer league averages were:

13.75 PPG
7.75 RPG
3.5 APG
3.25 BPG
56% FG%

Yeah, what a failure of epic proportions.

Buddy Mignon
07-15-2015, 01:10 AM
Do, Tim Duncan's summer league averages were:

13.75 PPG
7.75 RPG
3.5 APG
3.25 BPG
56% FG%

Yeah, what a failure of epic proportions.

Jim came out as a four year college player and hands down the number one pick in the draft. Jermaine Oneal was coming out of High School and Ostertag was a scrub. They both outplayed Jim. Jim had a sub-par summer league than was expected.

Splits
07-15-2015, 01:15 AM
^ O'Neal was in his 2nd summer league with 45 games under his belt.

Tim may have been "sub-par" but nothing like we're seeing from 1/2 of the Lakers roster in Vegas.

ChumpDumper
07-15-2015, 01:19 AM
lakerfan still trying

Buddy Mignon
07-15-2015, 01:27 AM
^ O'Neal was in his 2nd summer league with 45 games under his belt.

Tim may have been "sub-par" but nothing like we're seeing from 1/2 of the Lakers roster in Vegas.

You know what I just realized? This is just another example of how Jim is nothing but a system player. He never won shit in HS, College, NBA Summer League... the Olympics... or YMCA pickup play. Only under Pop's system.

midnightpulp
07-15-2015, 01:31 AM
Jim came out as a four year college player and hands down the number one pick in the draft. Jermaine Oneal was coming out of High School and Ostertag was a scrub. They both outplayed Jim. Jim had a sub-par summer league than was expected.

But your draft picks just aren't "sub-par," in Summer League, they're straight garbage.

I do think Russell will be a good player. Can't teach his size or court vision, but Randle is headed for the scrap heap.

midnightpulp
07-15-2015, 01:35 AM
You know what I just realized? This is just another example of how Jim is nothing but a system player. He never won shit in HS, College, NBA Summer League... the Olympics... or YMCA pickup play. Only under Pop's system.

Pop didn't have a "system" in Tim's prime. It was post Duncan while others stand around and wait for a pass from a Duncan double team. Why do you think the Spurs scored in like the 80's? They were built on defense, which again, was centered on Duncan.

Kobe, however, has never won anything outside of the Triangle.

:lol Olympics. I've already shown that he got outplayed by nearly every SG/SF counterpart in Olympic play, from no names to Rudy Fernandez.

Buddy Mignon
07-15-2015, 01:39 AM
Pop didn't have a "system" in Tim's prime. It was post Duncan while others stand around and wait for a pass from a Duncan double team. Why do you think the Spurs scored in like the 80's? They were built on defense, which again, was centered on Duncan.

Kobe, however, has never won anything outside of the Triangle.

:lol Olympics. I've already shown that he got outplayed by nearly every SG/SF counterpart in Olympic play, from no names to Rudy Fernandez.

Kobe won in HS... he would have at Duke... he dominated Summer League... he won in the Olympics... and he dominated his era by being the first to win 5 titles.

LE7iCJHscu4

Splits
07-15-2015, 01:45 AM
Kobe won in HS... he would have at Duke... he dominated Summer League... he won in the Olympics... and he dominated his era by being the first to win 5 titles.

LE7iCJHscu4

Why did he ride the pine his first 2 years, miss the playoffs in his prime, and destroy your team to the worst seasons in franchise history?

midnightpulp
07-15-2015, 01:51 AM
Kobe won in HS... he would have at Duke... he dominated Summer League... he won in the Olympics... and he dominated his era by being the first to win 5 titles.

LE7iCJHscu4

High school titles :lol

Kobe can't win outside the Triangle. Tim has won titles playing in two entirely different systems, being the best player in the each of them.

Kobe was a non-factor in the Olympics.

Buddy Mignon
07-15-2015, 01:52 AM
Why did he ride the pine his first 2 years, miss the playoffs in his prime, and destroy your team to the worst seasons in franchise history?

Dale Harris had the foresight of a 20 year old hooker that think her prime will last until she's 30. I'm ok with missing the playoffs. Being mediocre is what hurts.

Splits
07-15-2015, 01:54 AM
Dale Harris had the foresight of a 20 year old hooker that think her prime will last until she's 30. I'm ok with missing the playoffs. Being mediocre is what hurts.

Well you're more of a man than your hero, since he quits once he realizes missing the playoffs in inevitable.

And I'm pretty sure his name is Del, not Dale

Biernutz
07-15-2015, 02:37 AM
16 post on a thread about Tim and the Laker fans have not posted a reference of Amy or homo's
in it yet.....The world will end tomorrow............

DMC
07-15-2015, 08:31 AM
Dale Harris had the foresight of a 20 year old hooker that think her prime will last until she's 30. I'm ok with missing the playoffs. Being mediocre is what hurts.

No worries there.

K...
07-15-2015, 09:07 AM
Well I guess okafor is really better than Duncan. You got us there lake fan. Big oak has a long way to go before he actually surpasses big fundamental but at least he has the early early lead over summer league Tim. Oh what's that? The Lakers picked the poor man's Manu?

Mark Celibate
07-15-2015, 09:27 AM
I don't think Okafor is or will ever be nearly as good as Tim, not even close. Okafor won't be much better than the prime version of the other Okafor (a distant relative of his), while Duncan is a player of a generation imho.

xellos88330
07-16-2015, 10:30 AM
Kobe won in HS... he would have at Duke... he dominated Summer League... he won in the Olympics... and he dominated his era by being the first to win 5 titles.

LE7iCJHscu4

You can have that... I will keep Duncan continuing to dominate regardless of the era.

ceds
07-17-2015, 03:43 AM
You guys don't know the real story here...Ostertag didn't outplay TD..lol...are you kidding me

TD was only allowed to use his left hand ( instructed by Pop ) in the Ostertag game.


Pop had him focus on a different aspect offensively in each pre-season game but in the Jazz game he could only use his left

Arcadian
07-17-2015, 04:03 AM
This just proves that you can't accurately predict player success from summer league.

TDMVPDPOY
07-17-2015, 04:18 AM
duncans summer league>>>>kirbs summer in colorado

Thread
07-17-2015, 05:07 AM
duncans summer league>>>>kirbs summer in colorado

25

Silver&Black
07-17-2015, 07:30 AM
^
21-61

Thread
07-17-2015, 08:37 AM
25

InTheCrust
07-17-2015, 11:13 AM
Reading Room

Thread
07-17-2015, 12:41 PM
Reading Room

Rich Corinthian leather chairs & divan, big fat Cuban cigars, snifters of fine brandy, A/C set at 66 degrees,,,,,,it's a sweet set up.

Horse
07-17-2015, 12:50 PM
Can you imagine the Spurs sucking so bad that you had to dig up horseshit like this about kobe every single day. Get a girlfriend buddy! Jerking off to kobe posters is not healthy.

Thread
07-17-2015, 12:52 PM
Can you imagine the Spurs sucking so bad that you had to dig up horseshit like this about kobe every single day.

Yeah, that's what SF did every single day before your 2nd 5th.

Horse
07-17-2015, 12:54 PM
Yeah, that's what SF did every single day before your 2nd 5th.

I don't recall that I could give a fuck what kobe is doing in summer league or who he's raping or whatever

Thread
07-17-2015, 01:49 PM
I don't recall that I could give a fuck what kobe is doing in summer league or who he's raping or whatever

Since your 2nd 5th absolutely.

InTheCrust
07-17-2015, 02:13 PM
Rich Corinthian leather chairs & divan, big fat Cuban cigars, snifters of fine brandy, A/C set at 66 degrees,,,,,,it's a sweet set up.
nice place to hide at the zenith of the Spurs 5 last year too, evidently

Thread
07-17-2015, 02:16 PM
nice place to hide at the zenith of the Spurs 5 last year too, evidently

I left it immediately upon you ringing and reported here. You were upstairs celebrating before coming down here for the first time.

LkrFan
07-18-2015, 07:09 AM
Pop didn't have a "system" in Tim's prime. It was post Duncan while others stand around and wait for a pass from a Duncan double team. Why do you think the Spurs scored in like the 80's? They were built on defense, which again, was centered on Duncan.

Kobe, however, has never won anything outside of the Triangle.

:lol Olympics. I've already shown that he got outplayed by nearly every SG/SF counterpart in Olympic play, from no names to Rudy Fernandez.
1) 2 Gold Medals vs 1 Bronze Medal. Which is better?

2) Never lost in 1st round as #1 seed vs 8 Which is better?

3) Never loss to the Clipps in the playoffs vs losing them in the 1st round as defending champions with all of your best players healthy. Which is better?

4) H2H in the playoffs with both players playing. 4 wins vs 2 wins. Which is better?

5) Almost 3peated TWICE vs never repeated even once. Which is better?

:downspin:

Silver&Black
07-18-2015, 07:40 AM
1) 2 Gold Medals vs 1 Bronze Medal. Which is better?

2) Never lost in 1st round as #1 seed vs 8 Which is better?

3) Never loss to the Clipps in the playoffs vs losing them in the 1st round as defending champions with all of your best players healthy. Which is better?

4) H2H in the playoffs with both players playing. 4 wins vs 2 wins. Which is better?

5) Almost 3peated TWICE vs never repeated even once. Which is better?

:downspin:

Pretty good list Javier....can't argue with 4 of those.

But, :lol at using the Clippers as a barometer. Kirby is better than Tim because he never lost to the Clippers?

Our boy Ernesto is reaching.....

LkrFan
07-18-2015, 10:03 AM
Pretty good list Javier....can't argue with 4 of those.

But, :lol at using the Clippers as a barometer. Kirby is better than Tim because he never lost to the Clippers?

Our boy Ernesto is reaching.....:lmao

A) Y'all lost in the 1st round of the playoffs with all your best players healthy
B) Y'all lost in the 1st round of the playoffs with "the best player of his generation" leading the way
C) Y'all lost in the 1st round of the playoffs as defending champions
D) Y'all lost in the 1st round of the playoffs which meant no successful defense of your title for an NBA record 5th time
E) Y'all lost a game 7 in the 1st round of the playoffs as a #1 seed

Is that any better for context? :lol It's just a mere coincidence that it was the Clipps that sent y'all fishing. Damn. :rollin :lmao :rollin

Silver&Black
07-18-2015, 10:42 AM
:lmao

A) Y'all lost in the 1st round of the playoffs with all your best players healthy
B) Y'all lost in the 1st round of the playoffs with "the best player of his generation" leading the way
C) Y'all lost in the 1st round of the playoffs as defending champions
D) Y'all lost in the 1st round of the playoffs which meant no successful defense of your title for an NBA record 5th time
E) Y'all lost a game 7 in the 1st round of the playoffs as a #1 seed

Is that any better for context? :lol It's just a mere coincidence that it was the Clipps that sent y'all fishing. Damn. :rollin :lmao :rollin

Once again, fantastic list Jorge.

Here's my list on the Lakers 1st Round Performance last year:

A) Lakers were fishing at the time

/list

LkrFan
07-18-2015, 10:49 AM
Once again, fantastic list Jorge.

Here's my list on the Lakers 1st Round Performance last year:

A) Lakers were fishing at the time

/list21 and 61 son! :lol

Silver&Black
07-18-2015, 10:50 AM
21 and 61 son! :lol

That's why I like you Miguel....

21-61

Raven
07-18-2015, 10:53 AM
damn that's some inspired spinning right there :lmao
citing the clippers after they've been raped every time by them in the last few years including 48 :lmao
almost :lmao

LkrFan
07-18-2015, 10:54 AM
That's why I like you Miguel....

21-61
:lol

ohmwrecker
07-18-2015, 04:57 PM
The Spurs should've taken Greg Ostertag #1