Matt Bonner Back For More: One-Year, Minimum Deal

[Sean Cagney]

That's exactly the point. No one here is advocating that we go back to playing Bonner 20+ mpg :lol But to act like he's completely worthless or has no use anymore is just as dumb. Even with him having a down year (and fwiw, he claims he was dealing with an elbow injury), he still shot 37% from 3. He's still a stretch 4, and you never know when you might need that for spot minutes here and there.

And before someone says "Well yeah but Pop loves Bonner and will end up playing him more than he should!" - over the past 2 years, Bonner has averaged 12.2 mpg in the regular season and 5.9 mpg in the playoffs. That's with Splitter constantly dealing with injuries and only playing ~20 mpg. Now we have Aldridge who will be playing 30+ mpg, and also David West. I see no reason to worry about Bonner getting too many minutes.

Right on, agreed 100%.
Bonner hasn't even played 6 mpg over the past two postseasons. I really don't get why people are worrying so much about him playing in the playoffs :lolTrue, his role is good now.

[TheGreatYacht]

If you're gonna look at Matt Bonner stats, there's only one that means anything:

Bonner has a career .414 3P shooting percentage.
Bonner has a career .355 PLAYOFF 3P shooting percentage.

Anything else you can say about him is totally overshadowed by that one stat. If you just have to look at another stat, how about this?

Bonner has a career .569 EFG%
Bonner has a career .511 PLAYOFF EFG%
Last year in the playoffs, Bonner had a .300 EFG%


Let him play in the regular season, to rest some other guys. But if you measure success in rings? Bonner ain't your guy. He needs to be off the floor in the post-season. He's proven it for 9 straight seasons.
Bang.

[.G.]

Fuck yeah. I love seeing him trot out there, eager for someone to pass him the ball.

[lefty20]

If you're gonna look at Matt Bonner stats, there's only one that means anything:

Bonner has a career .414 3P shooting percentage.
Bonner has a career .355 PLAYOFF 3P shooting percentage.

Anything else you can say about him is totally overshadowed by that one stat. If you just have to look at another stat, how about this?

Bonner has a career .569 EFG%
Bonner has a career .511 PLAYOFF EFG%
Last year in the playoffs, Bonner had a .300 EFG%


Let him play in the regular season, to rest some other guys. But if you measure success in rings? Bonner ain't your guy. He needs to be off the floor in the post-season. He's proven it for 9 straight seasons.

I think it's safe to say most Spurs fan understand that Bonner is not, has never been, a starting quality big for a contender. Don't know why ppl still keep hating on him, even after Pop started utilizing him properly these last couple years.

[Hoops Czar]

The Spurs needed a 6th big like a hole in the head.

[Dex]

He's the 14th man on the team. He probably won't even get used this season.

And IF he does, he will be far more productive than any other 14th man the Spurs could ever trot out there.

Plus he's fucking hilarious. He's a fan favorite, if nothing else.

For everyone bitching about Matt Bonner coming back for the vet. min, take Pop's advice and get over yourself.

[gambit1990]

http://31.media.tumblr.com/e27f9224bc544a840d6a2023124f7772/tumblr_mwsh32T14O1qcmnsoo3_400.gif

:lol
:rollin i forgot about that.

[Ice009]

:bang
:pctoss
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://33.media.tumblr.com/2b682a0442036ac269add89eb7cd4298/tumblr_nfwlqxsnAW1rdhesho1_500.gif

Ah well, I guess there's no such thing as a perfect situation. Still a great offseason.

This is how I reacted. Shit. I really, really did not want him back.

I guess I am slightly OK with it if he's the 6th big. That is the only way that I'd be OK with it. As the 6th big in Ayres' place, maybe. Argh, I just am not a fan of Bonner and his game. He couldn't even hit any open shots last season.

[SpurPadre]

Bonner hasn't even played 6 mpg over the past two postseasons. I really don't get why people are worrying so much about him playing in the playoffs :lol

I would argue that EVERY minute in the playoffs is important and most of his minutes logged in the playoffs have proven worthless. But I'll agree to disagree. I'm standing by my hatred for the guy but with acceptance that he'll be a Spur for a long time to come, including a spot in coaching staff, and behind the scenes. It is what it is and we'll win despite his presence, however minimal it will be.

[daslicer]

Don't hate him like I did during '09-'11 since he doesn't have a big role on the spurs like he did during that era. I hope his shot comes back that would be tremendous for the spurs to win some regular season games.

[Ditty]

I wonder if the minimum deal is guaranteed? I was really hoping we would get Seraphin or Withey as our sixth big, as they are better prospects at their point of their careers imo, especially on defense where the Spurs back up center Marjonovic has the most questions right now is on the defensive end. From what I've seen the possible buyout market for big men aren't very intriguing this season also imo. I can see the frustration with "Bonner haters", because he was pretty terrible this year. A three point specialist, that can't shoot threes isn't very useful tbh, unless he is just there to "spread the floor". As some posters have mentioned, if he is in street clothes majority of the season except when Duncan,Manu or Parker rests, I'm fine with this. If he is suiting up and taking minutes in garbage time from the development of Anderson, and Simmons, while they are playing decent, and they're sitting behind the bench in suits or in Austin...I won't be thrilled.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Future Spurs asst-GM Matty :bobo

[Sean Cagney]

If you're gonna look at Matt Bonner stats, there's only one that means anything:

Bonner has a career .414 3P shooting percentage.
Bonner has a career .355 PLAYOFF 3P shooting percentage.

Anything else you can say about him is totally overshadowed by that one stat. If you just have to look at another stat, how about this?

Bonner has a career .569 EFG%
Bonner has a career .511 PLAYOFF EFG%
Last year in the playoffs, Bonner had a .300 EFG%


Let him play in the regular season, to rest some other guys. But if you measure success in rings? Bonner ain't your guy. He needs to be off the floor in the post-season. He's proven it for 9 straight seasons.

He is garbage in the post season when it counts usually, which is why I am glad he gets less minutes now and rides that bench the last few years. He doesn't have that IT factor that Horry had, never has and never will.

[eDizzle20]

More than anything a great locker room signing. As a 6th big he fills the role well.

[Bruno]

As basically everyone is saying, unless you have a personal dislike for Bonner, you can't really say it's a bad move by itself. Bonner at the end of the bench for the min is fine.

It is a bad move however if it impacts Spurs need for a vet wing. If Spurs don't add him because either they want to have that 15th roster spot open or for financial reasons, then signing Bonner for the min sucks. Spurs just need way more that vet wing than this 6th big. It would be crazy to start bitching about that because we have no clue if the Bonner signing will have some kind of impact on the addition of a vet shooting wing.

[kobyz]

I think that without the wrist injury, bonner would've been an all star last season...

[ElNono]

http://i.imgur.com/OKepHAA.gif

[Raven]

it may be strange to say, but i feel like he's in his prime. He's never been as good as last year, especially on D and the 3 pointer you can always rely on. I'm happy he is back.

[spursistan]

Give credit to Jeff McDonald from Express News for breaking the story..Matty is his seemingly only source in the Spurs/league..

[z0sa]

Good pick up for the last big on the bench. :tu:tu

[tatteredprince]

Bonner returns!

The Return of the Red Rocket!!!

[tatteredprince]

the bomber is here,

THE RED MAMBA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL

[tatteredprince]

greatest offseason in Spurs history

second to none

[spurraider21]

http://i.imgur.com/OKepHAA.gif
:lol

[tatteredprince]

Let's face it... without Bonner there'd be half as many threads.


:bobo

[Fireball]

I am happy about it ... as others have said, Bonner will not get playoff time, but he is a nice end of bench guy and good for the team chemistry.

[pookenstein]

What is the average age of retirement in the USA? My best guess is that Matty will lace em up until then. And I'm at peace with that.

Tim Duncan/Matt Bonner retirement Party 2038. I'll be there.

[venitian navigator]

For the vet min is more than ok...however, i don't understand how this will impact our future signings...if and when the F.O. plans to sign someone else for the 15 th spot.
In theory, we still have some holes...a veteran wing, a mobile and shot blocking big...and Imho we haven't solved our "big problem" that's point guard with Parker declining and playing lesser and lesser...I suppose that it will be taken care of by Manu (our real second playmeker), and for some minutes by Kyle, Mc Callum, Diaw, Mills and Simmons (that means by players that can't be considered, except maybe for Mc Callum - Kyle no more - at all point guards).

[littlecoyotecoin]

For the vet min is more than ok...however, i don't understand how this will impact our future signings...if and when the F.O. plans to sign someone else for the 15 th spot.
In theory, we still have some holes...a veteran wing, a mobile and shot blocking big...and Imho we haven't solved our "big problem" that's point guard with Parker declining and playing lesser and lesser...I suppose that it will be taken care of by Manu (our real second playmeker), and for some minutes by Kyle, Mc Callum, Diaw, Mills and Simmons (that means by players that can't be considered, except maybe for Mc Callum - Kyle no more - at all point guards).

You're underestimating how much time Ray McCallum will play point guard. ESPECIALLY if there are the typical Parker injuries of late.

[ceperez]

You're underestimating how much time Ray McCallum will play point guard. ESPECIALLY if there are the typical Parker injuries of late.

He played almost the same number of minutes as CoJo last year as PG. The expectation is that he'll do the same this year.

Bufford said that he was better at orchestrating the offense than Cojo.

Spurs will need to play first to see where their holes lie.

[littlecoyotecoin]

If you're gonna look at Matt Bonner stats, there's only one that means anything:

Bonner has a career .414 3P shooting percentage.
Bonner has a career .355 PLAYOFF 3P shooting percentage.

Anything else you can say about him is totally overshadowed by that one stat. If you just have to look at another stat, how about this?

Bonner has a career .569 EFG%
Bonner has a career .511 PLAYOFF EFG%
Last year in the playoffs, Bonner had a .300 EFG%


Let him play in the regular season, to rest some other guys. But if you measure success in rings? Bonner ain't your guy. He needs to be off the floor in the post-season. He's proven it for 9 straight seasons.

These numbers are specious. One, they're on an island. Compare them to other 14th man numbers, or 6th bigs for some kind of perspective. Two, .355 is not a horrible 3%, as you're trying to imply. It's just not great. Decent, and a fall off from his 41%. Three, yes, his numbers drop off significantly in the playoffs. Again, for perspective, how do others compare in the playoffs? Playoff teams have better defenses, generally, that's why they're in the playoffs. A lot of players numbers probably drop for this reason. Some may rise against better defenses, but that's probably not the norm. Four, the very fact that his numbers drop in the playoffs implies that defenses are respecting his ability, (many deny teams will honor his shot - this shows they clearly do) which is exactly what you want, to use him to stretch the floor. Defenses are dedicating resources toward shutting him down. The famous OKC example. Five, cherry picking last year's number and throwing it in there as evidence for future effectiveness. Unreliable. Especially if he was dealing wih a real, non-iPhone related injury.

So many people saying, still, that he "always" misses, or that he "never" makes a shot. You don't get to 37%, much less 41% by always missing, or never making. Pretty simple.

He is a tool, of some limited and specialized use. I trust Pop to use him effectively if needed and applicable.

Arguments that he is taking someone else's spot that is better can always be made, but are always nebulous, as we don't know if that person would have been available or willing to play, and not necessarily even better, as a 14th man/6th big.

Developing young talent? Philosophical differences.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Good. Your not going to find a Stretch 4 or 5 (Bonner can play both) in this league that is going to learn the system well this year. Bonner is great for the regular season. It means reduce minutes for Tim and gives Boban, West and LMA a player to teach them the ropes on the Spurs plays and positioning.

As the 6th big man, the Spurs couldn't do better.

[BillMc]

These numbers are specious. One, they're on an island. Compare them to other 14th man numbers, or 6th bigs for some kind of perspective. Two, .355 is not a horrible 3%, as you're trying to imply. It's just not great. Decent, and a fall off from his 41%. Three, yes, his numbers drop off significantly in the playoffs. Again, for perspective, how do others compare in the playoffs? Playoff teams have better defenses, generally, that's why they're in the playoffs. A lot of players numbers probably drop for this reason. Some may rise against better defenses, but that's probably not the norm. Four, the very fact that his numbers drop in the playoffs implies that defenses are respecting his ability, (many deny teams will honor his shot - this shows they clearly do) which is exactly what you want, to use him to stretch the floor. Defenses are dedicating resources toward shutting him down. The famous OKC example. Five, cherry picking last year's number and throwing it in there as evidence for future effectiveness. Unreliable. Especially if he was dealing wih a real, non-iPhone related injury.

So many people saying, still, that he "always" misses, or that he "never" makes a shot. You don't get to 37%, much less 41% by always missing, or never making. Pretty simple.

He is a tool, of some limited and specialized use. I trust Pop to use him effectively if needed and applicable.

Arguments that he is taking someone else's spot that is better can always be made, but are always nebulous, as we don't know if that person would have been available or willing to play, and not necessarily even better, as a 14th man/6th big.

Developing young talent? Philosophical differences.

Well said!:toast

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

For the vet min is more than ok...however, i don't understand how this will impact our future signings...if and when the F.O. plans to sign someone else for the 15 th spot.
In theory, we still have some holes...a veteran wing, a mobile and shot blocking big...and Imho we haven't solved our "big problem" that's point guard with Parker declining and playing lesser and lesser...I suppose that it will be taken care of by Manu (our real second playmeker), and for some minutes by Kyle, Mc Callum, Diaw, Mills and Simmons (that means by players that can't be considered, except maybe for Mc Callum - Kyle no more - at all point guards).

PG - Parker, McCallum, Mills
SG - Green, Manu, Simmons
SF - Kawhi, KA, White, or Simmons (if needed, he has the size to play it at 6'6")
PF - LMA, Diaw, West/Bonner
C - Duncan, West, Boban, Bonner

I expect Manu to play only like 10-15 min most games and quite a few DND this year. With the Spurs current roster, EVERYONE should be fresh for the playoffs barring any significant injuries.

[Obstructed_View]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q228/GeneralPurpose/home/Spurstalk/bonner_zpsadf50h46.jpg

[Yuixafun]

PG - Parker, McCallum, Mills
SG - Green, Manu, Simmons
SF - Kawhi, KA, White, or Simmons (if needed, he has the size to play it at 6'6")
PF - LMA, Diaw, West/Bonner
C - Duncan, West, Boban, Bonner


Looks so good in theory.

Spurs core.

Spurs next Gen.

Hungry Vets that bring offense punch, spacing, toughness. Some Nasty. Guys that will slide right into what the Spurs do and have gotten over themselves.

New Spurs, happy for the change of scenery, coming into an established franchise... plenty of sunshine and fertile soil for them to grow.
Pg is a coach son with good pace, high bbiq, another is a slasher athletic energy guy who has fought hard to get here, other is agile huge monster with proven success.
All seem like hard workers dedicated to getting better and carving their place.

This is the sort of mix that wins championships.

[dabom]

We need someone to script the FO and matt bonner convo cantthinkofanything :lmao

[dabom]

Maybe set it up at the syrup aisle at HEB. :lmao

[spursince#99]

Looks so good in theory.

Spurs core.

Spurs next Gen.

Hungry Vets that bring offense punch, spacing, toughness. Some Nasty. Guys that will slide right into what the Spurs do and have gotten over themselves.

New Spurs, happy for the change of scenery, coming into an established franchise... plenty of sunshine and fertile soil for them to grow.
Pg is a coach son with good pace, high bbiq, another is a slasher athletic energy guy who has fought hard to get here, other is agile huge monster with proven success.
All seem like hard workers dedicated to getting better and carving their place.

This is the sort of mix that wins championships.


White?

[JWest596]

Bonner returns!

The Return of the Red Rocket!!!



Duncan and Bonner....does it get any better than this? Aldridge who?:lol

[jsandiego]

Looks so good in theory.

Spurs core.

Spurs next Gen.

Hungry Vets that bring offense punch, spacing, toughness. Some Nasty. Guys that will slide right into what the Spurs do and have gotten over themselves.

New Spurs, happy for the change of scenery, coming into an established franchise... plenty of sunshine and fertile soil for them to grow.
Pg is a coach son with good pace, high bbiq, another is a slasher athletic energy guy who has fought hard to get here, other is agile huge monster with proven success.
All seem like hard workers dedicated to getting better and carving their place.

This is the sort of mix that wins championships.
Agreed. This should be such a fun season.

I'm actually pretty happy with having Bonner back. He's the 14th man, and a situational player, not a regular rotation guy. If you have a non-rotation guy for the minimum, you want someone like Bonner, who knows the culture, and keeps the guys together. He's a great teammate, and will be great in practice for the bigs and Pop.

Most team's 14th man is on a 10 day contract between D-League stints. Matt Bonner is a terrible starter, but an elite 14th man. That's all we can ask for.

[TampaDude]

Red Mamba 4ever!!!

[Sean Cagney]

These numbers are specious. One, they're on an island. Compare them to other 14th man numbers, or 6th bigs for some kind of perspective. Two, .355 is not a horrible 3%, as you're trying to imply. It's just not great. Decent, and a fall off from his 41%. Three, yes, his numbers drop off significantly in the playoffs. Again, for perspective, how do others compare in the playoffs? Playoff teams have better defenses, generally, that's why they're in the playoffs. A lot of players numbers probably drop for this reason. Some may rise against better defenses, but that's probably not the norm. Four, the very fact that his numbers drop in the playoffs implies that defenses are respecting his ability, (many deny teams will honor his shot - this shows they clearly do) which is exactly what you want, to use him to stretch the floor. Defenses are dedicating resources toward shutting him down. The famous OKC example. Five, cherry picking last year's number and throwing it in there as evidence for future effectiveness. Unreliable. Especially if he was dealing wih a real, non-iPhone related injury.

So many people saying, still, that he "always" misses, or that he "never" makes a shot. You don't get to 37%, much less 41% by always missing, or never making. Pretty simple.

He is a tool, of some limited and specialized use. I trust Pop to use him effectively if needed and applicable.

Arguments that he is taking someone else's spot that is better can always be made, but are always nebulous, as we don't know if that person would have been available or willing to play, and not necessarily even better, as a 14th man/6th big.

Developing young talent? Philosophical differences.That 35% is bumped up from his one good playoff run though, his FG % was under .400 as well until then. I agree but the problem before wss playing him 20 mins a game a few years and that was a huge mistake on Pop and it appeared he learned from that so all is good now. 14th man Bonner is and thank God.

[ceperez]

PG - Parker, McCallum, Mills
SG - Green, Manu, Simmons
SF - Kawhi, KA, White, or Simmons (if needed, he has the size to play it at 6'6")
PF - LMA, Diaw, West/Bonner
C - Duncan, West, Boban, Bonner

I expect Manu to play only like 10-15 min most games and quite a few DND this year. With the Spurs current roster, EVERYONE should be fresh for the playoffs barring any significant injuries.

Who is 'White'????

[Dex]

621471759318052864

:lol Air New Hampshire :lol

The list of nicknames grows.

[Darkwaters]

Diaw is not a 3...

[Darkwaters]

Who is 'White'????


James White!

[MaNu4Tres]

If you're gonna look at Matt Bonner stats, there's only one that means anything:

Bonner has a career .414 3P shooting percentage.
Bonner has a career .355 PLAYOFF 3P shooting percentage.

Anything else you can say about him is totally overshadowed by that one stat. If you just have to look at another stat, how about this?

Bonner has a career .569 EFG%
Bonner has a career .511 PLAYOFF EFG%
Last year in the playoffs, Bonner had a .300 EFG%





]That 35% is bumped up from his one good playoff run though, his FG % was under .400 as well until then. [/B]I agree but the problem before wss playing him 20 mins a game a few years and that was a huge mistake on Pop and it appeared he learned from that so all is good now. 14th man Bonner is and thank God.

None of you guys are taking account of the number of shots Bonner has attempted in the playoffs either.

In nine years as a Spur, Bonner has attempted 1889 three pointers in the regular season. Which is a very relevant sample size, no?

To compare, in nine years as a Spur, Bonner has attempted ONLY 138 three point shots in the playoffs. That's less than half the shots Bonner has attempted in most regular seasons as a Spur.

Two important variables you need to consider when you are assessing the ability of a player in the playoffs: 1) Sample size vs sample size of regular season. 2) The upgraded defenses who have days/weeks to game-plan.

I personally think " playoff player" or "clutch gene" are terms used by idiots. There's just no such thing -- players are who they are and with an adequate/relevant sample size, percentages will eventually regress or progress to around their mean in the long run. Upgraded defenses and extra minutes/extra energy expended/fatigue are all relevant variables that work against the offensive player -- but are never taken into account.

Every time I hear " playoff performer" or " clutch gene" it makes me realize how dumb fans can really be. Players are who they are.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Diaw is not a 3...
I didn't see who said that, that you are referring to, but I, Timvp, Baseline Bum, and Popovich disagree, at least in regard to him subbing in for our starting three on some occasions during foul trouble situations, or certain matchups. But, feel free to continue protesting Diaw's inclusion at the end of the SF lists of various posters.

[Dex]

James White!

Royce White? ✈️ ��

[littlecoyotecoin]

None of you guys are taking account of the number of shots Bonner has attempted in the playoffs either.

In nine years as a Spur, Bonner has attempted 1889 three pointers in the regular season. Which is a very relevant sample size, no?

To compare, in nine years as a Spur, Bonner has attempted ONLY 138 three point shots in the playoffs. That's less than half the shots Bonner has attempted in most regular seasons as a Spur.

Two important variables you need to consider when you are assessing the ability of a player in the playoffs: 1) Sample size vs sample size of regular season. 2) The upgraded defenses who have days/weeks to game-plan.

I personally think " playoff player" or "clutch gene" are terms used by idiots. There's just no such thing -- players are who they are and with an adequate/relevant sample size, percentages will eventually regress or progress to around their mean in the long run. Upgraded defenses and extra minutes/extra energy expended/fatigue are all relevant variables that work against the offensive player -- but are never taken into account.

Every time I hear " playoff performer" or " clutch gene" it makes me realize how dumb fans can really be. Players are who they are.

[jag]

I was probably the biggest Bonner hater on the board circa 2011. But considering it's 2015-2016 and this nigga is still on the team, you just gotta admire his resiliency.

Hating on him is pointless, it'd be like hating on the sun for rising every morning tbh :lol

:toast

[Sean Cagney]

None of you guys are taking account of the number of shots Bonner has attempted in the playoffs either.

In nine years as a Spur, Bonner has attempted 1889 three pointers in the regular season. Which is a very relevant sample size, no?

To compare, in nine years as a Spur, Bonner has attempted ONLY 138 three point shots in the playoffs. That's less than half the shots Bonner has attempted in most regular seasons as a Spur.

Two important variables you need to consider when you are assessing the ability of a player in the playoffs: 1) Sample size vs sample size of regular season. 2) The upgraded defenses who have days/weeks to game-plan.

I personally think " playoff player" or "clutch gene" are terms used by idiots. There's just no such thing -- players are who they are and with an adequate/relevant sample size, percentages will eventually regress or progress to around their mean in the long run. Upgraded defenses and extra minutes/extra energy expended/fatigue are all relevant variables that work against the offensive player -- but are never taken into account.

Every time I hear " playoff performer" or " clutch gene" it makes me realize how dumb fans can really be. Players are who they are.Lol what a weak ass argument and proves again nobody van say this guy is good with any proof. Now buckets made does not matter although tht is one of his few skillsets. I guess clutch does not count nor exist now either. I get it nice guy and knows the system etc. but honestly man % in the playoffs does matter and clutch guys like Horry and Diaw do matter as far as titles go or not. Fans are not dumb who like guys who make shots and plays when it counts And Bonner sure as hell is not one of those guys. I guess we dont know the game because we dont love Bonner!

[Sean Cagney]

Yep another who argues how good Bonner is but never has a playoff run or clutch shots made list to prove he is effective when it really counts in which he is not. His shots brick late in tight games or he passes them off. Bonner does not have that it factor some have.

[MaNu4Tres]

Lol what a weak ass argument and proves again nobody van say this guy is good with any proof. Now buckets made does not matter although tht is one of his few skillsets. I guess clutch does not count nor exist now either. I get it nice guy and knows the system etc. but honestly man % in the playoffs does matter and clutch guys like Horry and Diaw do matter as far as titles go or not. Fans are not dumb who like guys who make shots and plays when it counts And Bonner sure as hell is not one of those guys. I guess we dont know the game because we dont love Bonner!


If Horry is a clutch player, why didn't he come up "clutch" in the playoffs in 1992, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2003, 2004, 2006 an 2008? If he's clutch like you are saying, then he should come up clutch every season, no?

I agree he's made big shots in his career for the Rockets, Lakers and Spurs but that wasn't because he was clutch. It was because he had confidence in his skill-set shooting the three and he was playing for the right teams at the right time and had 16 years of playoff experience to have ample opportunities to come up with a big shot at the end of a few of those playoff games he played in.

There's no such thing as a clutch player. Players are who they are. Great players will make great plays at the end of the games -- they will also make bad plays or miss an open shot. Great shooters will make three pointers at the end of games, they will also miss them too.

[ducks]

If Horry is a clutch player, why didn't he come up "clutch" in the playoffs in 1992, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2003, 2004, 2006 an 2008? If he's clutch like you are saying, then he should come up clutch every season, no?

I agree he's made big shots in his career for the Rockets, Lakers and Spurs but that wasn't because he was clutch. It was because he had confidence in his skill-set shooting the three and he was playing for the right teams at the right time and had 16 years of playoff experience to have ample opportunities to come up with a big shot at the end of a few of those playoff games he played in.

There's no such thing as a clutch player. Players are who they are. Great players will make great plays at the end of the games -- they will also make bad plays or miss an open shot. Great shooters will make three pointers at the end of games, they will also miss them too.

comes up more clutch then manu

[GSH]

These numbers are specious.

He is a tool, of some limited and specialized use. I trust Pop to use him effectively if needed and applicable.




No, you're a tool. And you talk a lot, without taking the time to look at the numbers, and know what you're talking about.

In 9 years of playoff experience, Bonner had two games where he shot well. Take those two games out of his history, and he's shot .319 from the arc for the rest of his playoff career. That's shit for a spot up 3P specialist. You do understand that's what he is... right?

Those same 9 years, he shot .414 during the regular season. I was one of the biggest Bonner defenders here - sometimes almost the only one. But even I couldn't deny that his goes to shit in the playoffs.

At the min, he's cheap insurance, and a guy to fill minutes during the regular season. If you're depending on him in the playoffs, get ready to go fishing.



That 35% is bumped up from his one good playoff run though, his FG % was under .400 as well until then. I agree but the problem before wss playing him 20 mins a game a few years and that was a huge mistake on Pop and it appeared he learned from that so all is good now. 14th man Bonner is and thank God.

As I said above, it wasn't a good playoff run. It was two good games, in a shitty playoff history. Two freaking games against teams that we swept, and were already beaten down.

[littlecoyotecoin]

No, you're a tool. And you talk a lot, without taking the time to look at the numbers, and know what you're talking about.

In 9 years of playoff experience, Bonner had two games where he shot well. Take those two games out of his history, and he's shot .319 from the arc for the rest of his playoff career. That's shit for a spot up 3P specialist. You do understand that's what he is... right?

Those same 9 years, he shot .414 during the regular season. I was one of the biggest Bonner defenders here - sometimes almost the only one. But even I couldn't deny that his goes to shit in the playoffs.

At the min, he's cheap insurance, and a guy to fill minutes during the regular season. If you're depending on him in the playoffs, get ready to go fishing.




As I said above, it wasn't a good playoff run. It was two good games, in a shitty playoff history. Two freaking games against teams that we swept, and were already beaten down.

Translation: when you throw out the good appearances, and look primarily at the bad ones, Bonner's actually even worse than he really is.

Someone, Manu4Tres, I believe, actually addressed part of your problem, above.

[Yuixafun]

nvm

[Sean Cagney]

No, you're a tool. And you talk a lot, without taking the time to look at the numbers, and know what you're talking about.

In 9 years of playoff experience, Bonner had two games where he shot well. Take those two games out of his history, and he's shot .319 from the arc for the rest of his playoff career. That's shit for a spot up 3P specialist. You do understand that's what he is... right?

Those same 9 years, he shot .414 during the regular season. I was one of the biggest Bonner defenders here - sometimes almost the only one. But even I couldn't deny that his goes to shit in the playoffs.

At the min, he's cheap insurance, and a guy to fill minutes during the regular season. If you're depending on him in the playoffs, get ready to go fishing.




As I said above, it wasn't a good playoff run. It was two good games, in a shitty playoff history. Two freaking games against teams that we swept, and were already beaten down.His fan boys are idiots now man, seriously ignoring stats and so on saying he is what he is and a 14th man. He is not clutch, is not good in the playoffs when it counts and his % is horrible, but that doesn't matter! We are idiots because we don't love the guy! I guess made buckets in the playoffs don't count now? Clutch does not exist! We are idiots because we don't just love Ginger and turn the cheek on the fact he sucks when it really matters.

[Sean Cagney]

Translation: when you throw out the good appearances, and look primarily at the bad ones, Bonner's actually even worse than he really is.

Someone, Manu4Tres, I believe, actually addressed part of your problem, above.
Yep and it was a stupid argument with no basis in which he brought to the table. No clutch gene and there is no clutch guys etc., bullshit Horry and Diaw say HELLO.....

[MaNu4Tres]

At the min, he's cheap insurance, and a guy to fill minutes during the regular season. If you're depending on him in the playoffs, get ready to go fishing.



Nobody is arguing against that. I agree with that -- his 3 point shooting is his most valuable trait though with his IQ on both ends being his 2nd. Every other attribute or trait of his is below average for a NBA role player.

He's the 6th big and the 14th guy on the roster -- the signing is fine.

But if you're going to bring up "playoff performer" argument or "clutch gene" argument then that's where I disagree. Most cases are inconclusive because the sample size isn't relevant enough. There's just no way to quantify clutch -- there's no such thing.

[MaNu4Tres]

Yep and it was a stupid argument with no basis in which he brought to the table. No clutch gene and there is no clutch guys etc., bullshit Horry and Diaw say HELLO.....


If Horry is a clutch player, why didn't he come up "clutch" in the playoffs in 1992, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2003, 2004, 2006 an 2008? If he's clutch like you are saying, then he should come up clutch every season, no?

I agree he's made big shots in his career for the Rockets, Lakers and Spurs but that wasn't because he was clutch. It was because he had confidence in his skill-set shooting the three and he was playing for the right teams at the right time and had 16 years of playoff experience to have ample opportunities to come up with a big shot at the end of a few of those playoff games he played in.

There's no such thing as a clutch player. Players are who they are. Great players will make great plays at the end of the games -- they will also make bad plays or miss an open shot. Great shooters will make three pointers at the end of games, they will also miss them too.

[SnakeBoy]

His fan boys are idiots now man, seriously ignoring stats and so on saying he is what he is and a 14th man. He is not clutch, is not good in the playoffs when it counts and his % is horrible, but that doesn't matter! We are idiots because we don't love the guy! I guess made buckets in the playoffs don't count now? Clutch does not exist! We are idiots because we don't just love Ginger and turn the cheek on the fact he sucks when it really matters.

He stretches the defense, that's what is important.

[Sean Cagney]

If Horry is a clutch player, why didn't he come up "clutch" in the playoffs in 1992, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2003, 2004, 2006 an 2008? If he's clutch like you are saying, then he should come up clutch every season, no?

I agree he's made big shots in his career for the Rockets, Lakers and Spurs but that wasn't because he was clutch. It was because he had confidence in his skill-set shooting the three and he was playing for the right teams at the right time and had 16 years of playoff experience to have ample opportunities to come up with a big shot at the end of a few of those playoff games he played in.

There's no such thing as a clutch player. Players are who they are. Great players will make great plays at the end of the games -- they will also make bad plays or miss an open shot. Great shooters will make three pointers at the end of games, they will also miss them too.
Yep and Bonner is not one of those guys who makes a big play or shot at the end of the games, never has been never will be. Horry had confidence as you said, guess Bonner when he passes up shots or looks hesitant out there when it's on the line just doesn't have confidence in his shot. I see a hesitant guy a lot of times to tell you the truth.

Horry has had bad playoff runs true indeed but the memorable shots he made are timeless, Bonner doesn't really have that moment nor playoff run to speak of outside of a game or two so I am not really a huge fan of him tbh. As a 14th man cool, anything more than that spells disaster with that guy hence his 20 minutes per game run a few years in a row and bad playoff series outings.
He stretches the defense, that's what is important.

Thats his attribute then, surely not made shots nor key memorable plays when the game is on the line. I hear that argument a lot and that is all they really have for Bonner. IMO the guy is not that good outside of made threes during the year, which he is pretty good at during regular season.

[littlecoyotecoin]

His fan boys are idiots now man, seriously ignoring stats and so on saying he is what he is and a 14th man. He is not clutch, is not good in the playoffs when it counts and his % is horrible, but that doesn't matter! We are idiots because we don't love the guy! I guess made buckets in the playoffs don't count now? Clutch does not exist! We are idiots because we don't just love Ginger and turn the cheek on the fact he sucks when it really matters.

I'm no fan boy. I was suggesting he was done a long time ago, and his shooting was dropping off, and I was wrong. I revisited, and changed by opinion. I think those belly-aching about him are still wrong, at least for this minor role. Again, no one is advocating anything more than regular season minute eater, garbage time role player, or special situation use. Just trying to be rational. Not emotional. Not upset enough to go ad hominem, for example.

[Sean Cagney]

Nobody is arguing against that. I agree with that -- his 3 point shooting is his most valuable trait though with his IQ on both ends being his 2nd. Every other attribute or trait of his is below average for a NBA role player.

He's the 6th big and the 14th guy on the roster -- the signing is fine.

But if you're going to bring up "playoff performer" argument or "clutch gene" argument then that's where I disagree. Most cases are inconclusive because the sample size isn't relevant enough. There's just no way to quantify clutch -- there's no such thing.

I agree on most of that but some players come up bigger than others when the game is on the line and make key buckets you remember forever as a fan, Bonner is not one of those guys regardless of his role. I see a hesitant shooter late in games and a passive guy to be honest, just not his thing to take or make big shots. I do believe his % dips below in the playoffs because of nerves or confidence issues, either or he is what he is as you said.

[GSH]

Translation: when you throw out the good appearances, and look primarily at the bad ones, Bonner's actually even worse than he really is.

Someone, Manu4Tres, I believe, actually addressed part of your problem, above.



If two games is all your good appearances, in a 9 year playoff history with a team that's always in the playoffs, that pretty much says it all.

Fucking retard.

[MaNu4Tres]

I agree on most of that but some players come up bigger than others when the game is on the line and make key buckets you remember forever as a fan, Bonner is not one of those guys regardless of his role. I see a hesitant shooter late in games and a passive guy to be honest, just not his thing to take or make big shots. I do believe his % dips below in the playoffs because of nerves or confidence issues, either or he is what he is as you said.

Let's be real, the reason you remember Horry coming up w/ big shots or the reason Horry came up w/ more big shots than other role players in NBA history was because he had ample of opportunities to succeed in the late game scenarios -- more so than any role player in NBA history. This is where my sample size in playoffs arguments comes to light. I would hope Horry has more than 1 big shot in his career for all the opportunities he's had in 16 straight deep playoff appearances. He played in SIXTEEN Playoffs in a row and was the perfect complimentary role player for Dream, Shaq, and Duncan because of his defense and his ability to shoot the 3 to give them space to operate on the low post.

And to compare Bonner to Horry is silly -- not because of clutch or big shots, its because Horry was a much better player than Bonner in all phases.

Bonner is not going to have a swagger or confidence because his skill-set does not warrant that confidence in huge games against the stiffest competition on the biggest stage. He probably knows he has no business at the end of big playoff games just as Pop does because lets be real -- Bonner has hardly ever stepped foot on the court in the last 5 minutes of a big playoff game during his 9 years as a Spur.

[GSH]

But if you're going to bring up "playoff performer" argument or "clutch gene" argument then that's where I disagree. Most cases are inconclusive because the sample size isn't relevant enough. There's just no way to quantify clutch -- there's no such thing.


Look, you're a good poster, and I know you know about basketball. And, yeah, guys are who they are. But in any sport, there are guys who wilt under pressure. That's undeniable, and it's what separates the greats from the goats. If "clutch" means a guy who hits every buzzer-beater when the game is tied, or makes every FT to keep the Championship from being lost in OT - then, yeah, that's bullshit. So how about if we define "clutch" as a guy who doesn't go to shit under pressure? Doesn't look like a deer in the headlights. If guys "are who they are" how about clutch meaning the guy who is still who he is, rather than worse.

When it comes to the playoffs, Bonner is worse. You can't get around it. Yeah, the sample size is smaller, but that's true no matter what player you try to analyze. The fact is, Bonner has gotten a LOT of playoff experience, because he's played 9 years with the team that spends the most time in the playoffs. So if we can't analyze his playoff stats, we might as well stop keeping playoff stats. He's only started a few playoff games, but he's got enough games, and enough minutes to examine.

I don't remember him being the guy with the ball in his hands, during the "clutch" moments of playoff games, so it's not about that. His minutes have been bread-and-butter time. And you can't deny that his performance has consistently been significantly worse during playoff time. Enough worse to be noticeable. (Pop has obviously noticed it.) I think you know too much about the game to totally ignore it.

So, yeah, he's cheap insurance during the regular season. But if anyone thinks he'll figure significantly into the playoff picture (barring some terrible injuries to other players), I would love to make a wager or two. That's all I said to begin with. He's there for regular season cannon fodder, and insurance.



Let's be real, the reason you remember Horry coming up w/ big shots or the reason Horry came up w/ more big shots than other role players in NBA history was because he had ample of opportunities to succeed in the late game scenarios ...


The fact is, Horry WANTED the ball in those situations. In his mind, he KNEW he could make the big shot. He thrived on that, lived for it. And THAT may be the difference between "clutch" and the guys that are deer in the headlights.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

the debate of Bonner's value, whether it's as a cheap, familiar, shooting, role player. Or a deceptively costly, irrelevant, bricking, wasted roster spot. proving things, and simply realizing things. the existance of "clutch" and "it factor." it all reminds me of the political debate of libertarian ideology vs common society. who better understands? there is no definitive answer, i suppose. i disagree, but for the sake of peace, i will suppose there is no definitive answer. Since it doesn't really matter, anyways. Pop has a hard on for Bonner, and they've achieved considerable success. Many fans agree and disagree, but Pop and RC make the calls. Fans are truly very insignificant.

just for fun, i found this long debate between libertarian and non-libertarian powerhouses. Fellow Bonner hating, clutch factor believers. If you can't accept that evil has won, i beg you... accept it! watch the video... learn to embrace evil, so that you might learn to better affect it. acceptance is the weapon of the innovators. rejection is the weapon of the evil. if you reject your acceptance, you have lost your ability to affect evil. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AcUkA0tq28

[MaNu4Tres]

The fact is, Horry WANTED the ball in those situations. In his mind, he KNEW he could make the big shot. He thrived on that, lived for it. And THAT may be the difference between "clutch" and the guys that are deer in the headlights.

That's called confidence -- which is understandable because he was a very good role player in many phases of the game, he was not a clutch player though because there's no such thing as a clutch player.

If there was such thing as a clutch player and if Horry was one, Horry would have came through for the Rockets in 1992, 1993. He would have came through for the Lakers in 1998 ,1999, 2000 and 2003. He would have came through for the Spurs in 2004, 2006, 2008. He missed a lot big shots those years and didn't shoot the three as well as he did in the regular season -- but no one remembers that because they're delusional and infatuated about the " clutch player" mystique.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

the debate of Bonner's value, whether it's as a cheap, familiar, shooting, role player. Or a deceptively costly, irrelevant, bricking, wasted roster spot. proving things, and simply realizing things. the existance of "clutch" and "it factor." it all reminds me of the political debate of libertarian ideology vs common society. who better understands? there is no definitive answer, i suppose. i disagree, but for the sake of peace, i will suppose there is no definitive answer. Since it doesn't really matter, anyways. Pop has a hard on for Bonner, and they've achieved considerable success. Many fans agree and disagree, but Pop and RC make the calls. Fans are truly very insignificant.

just for fun, i found this long debate between libertarian and non-libertarian powerhouses. Fellow Bonner hating, clutch factor believers. If you can't accept that evil has won, i beg you... accept it! watch the video... learn to embrace evil, so that you might learn to better affect it. acceptance is the weapon of the innovators. rejection is the weapon of the evil. if you reject your acceptance, you have lost your ability to affect evil. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AcUkA0tq28

i'll tell you another effective weapon for Pop sucking Bonner love. Confessing the expectation that KG and the Twolves are going to eliminate the Spurs from the playoffs this year. And it won't even be Bonners fault. It may not even be Aldridges. It'll be the same fault it has always been. The Spurs are a crochety, archaic, government official. They don't believe in magic, they put facts and numbers to use and do what they can. They couldn't possibly be lucky, they don't acknowledge luck. They are strict failures, who achieve success because this is a world of failures. Please, convert to the Timberwolves. Join a fandom that has a finger on the pulse of magic. The Wolves roster is insane, and strict failures can't even see it. They're too blinded by a perspective of insanity.

[littlecoyotecoin]

If two games is all your good appearances, in a 9 year playoff history with a team that's always in the playoffs, that pretty much says it all.

Fucking retard.

138 SHOTS

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Who is 'White'????

I meant Williams, but like one of the poster mentioned I had James White stucked in my head. He was another scrub the Spurs had as SF a few years back. But the dude could dunk.

Anyways it looks like Reggie was waived even though I have yet to find an Official announcement.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHgnScxIm_k

[Sean Cagney]

I'm no fan boy. I was suggesting he was done a long time ago, and his shooting was dropping off, and I was wrong. I revisited, and changed by opinion. I think those belly-aching about him are still wrong, at least for this minor role. Again, no one is advocating anything more than regular season minute eater, garbage time role player, or special situation use. Just trying to be rational. Not emotional. Not upset enough to go ad hominem, for example.

Okay I agree with you on that part, as a 14th man and situational he is fine! He is what he is as you and the other dude said and we have to accept that because that won't change. Pop wanted his stretch 4 badly after Horry and tried to make Bonner that, in which he is not Horry by any stretch. Bonner seems to be a fan fave for some and the players love him, must be a good dude to be around and a good presence in the locker room so I guess you do need that on a team.

[Sean Cagney]

That's called confidence -- which is understandable because he was a very good role player in many phases of the game, he was not a clutch player though because there's no such thing as a clutch player.

If there was such thing as a clutch player and if Horry was one, Horry would have came through for the Rockets in 1992, 1993. He would have came through for the Lakers in 1998 ,1999, 2000 and 2003. He would have came through for the Spurs in 2004, 2006, 2008. He missed a lot big shots those years and didn't shoot the three as well as he did in the regular season -- but no one remembers that because they're delusional and infatuated about the " clutch player" mystique.
A lot of people use the term clutch though for certain players like Horry, Jordan, Bird etc., they make the shots when it counts and are not afraid to let it fly being they are confident. If you don't use the word clutch fine, but many do so you can't really argue there because it's a matter of opinion on whether you want to use that word or not for a player. I will still use it and many will, nothing wrong with saying it IMO because if the guy shoots a pretty good % when the game is on the line or in the 4th Q to me he is money.
Look, you're a good poster, and I know you know about basketball. And, yeah, guys are who they are. But in any sport, there are guys who wilt under pressure. That's undeniable, and it's what separates the greats from the goats. If "clutch" means a guy who hits every buzzer-beater when the game is tied, or makes every FT to keep the Championship from being lost in OT - then, yeah, that's bullshit. So how about if we define "clutch" as a guy who doesn't go to shit under pressure? Doesn't look like a deer in the headlights. If guys "are who they are" how about clutch meaning the guy who is still who he is, rather than worse.

When it comes to the playoffs, Bonner is worse. You can't get around it. Yeah, the sample size is smaller, but that's true no matter what player you try to analyze. The fact is, Bonner has gotten a LOT of playoff experience, because he's played 9 years with the team that spends the most time in the playoffs. So if we can't analyze his playoff stats, we might as well stop keeping playoff stats. He's only started a few playoff games, but he's got enough games, and enough minutes to examine.

I don't remember him being the guy with the ball in his hands, during the "clutch" moments of playoff games, so it's not about that. His minutes have been bread-and-butter time. And you can't deny that his performance has consistently been significantly worse during playoff time. Enough worse to be noticeable. (Pop has obviously noticed it.) I think you know too much about the game to totally ignore it.

So, yeah, he's cheap insurance during the regular season. But if anyone thinks he'll figure significantly into the playoff picture (barring some terrible injuries to other players), I would love to make a wager or two. That's all I said to begin with. He's there for regular season cannon fodder, and insurance.





The fact is, Horry WANTED the ball in those situations. In his mind, he KNEW he could make the big shot. He thrived on that, lived for it. And THAT may be the difference between "clutch" and the guys that are deer in the headlights.Besides the fact that Bonner got 20 mpg and then the other years a lot less says it all, there is a reason why his minutes and shots are less in the playoffs and rightfully so. He is used to his role now and gets less minutes and shots, very good reason for that too.

[Chinook]

You show me a 'clutch' player, and I'll show you a player who is unfocused for most of the game.

[littlecoyotecoin]

138 SHOTS

In more detail, you don't get to throw out 22% (especially the nonrandom 22% that you specifically chose because it doesn't support your hypothesis) of your data, and then say: the remaining 78% of the data supports my hypothesis.

I don't know how many of his 138 playoff shots were taken during those two games you want to throw out, but similar reasoning applies. You don't get to throw out that (what probably amounts to a similar percentage of shots) number of shots, and only look at 138 - x that remain; the ones that support your hypothesis.

Something else that hasn't been mentioned, really, is when he is called in to shoot one shot, cold off the bench, after a timeout, to end a quarter, half, etc. It's a tall order for a player. He often plays without having had time to get a rythm, etc. So, there's another reason I have at least a modicum of respect for him and the role they ask him to play, in addition to the glue, character, and corporate knowledge stuff that's been acknowledged many times over by people on both sides of the debate.

[SnakeBoy]

Thats his attribute then, surely not made shots nor key memorable plays when the game is on the line. I hear that argument a lot and that is all they really have for Bonner. IMO the guy is not that good outside of made threes during the year, which he is pretty good at during regular season.

He has plenty of other attributes. He stretches the floor, he makes people laugh, he knows where to get good sandwiches anywhere in the world, and doggone it people like him.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

You show me a 'clutch' player, and I'll show you a player who is unfocused for most of the game.

sounds a lot like the Spurs throwing regular season games, in favor of rest for the playoffs.

[TheGoldStandard]

He better be in a suit this season, taking minutes away from any of the young guys is robbery

[DrunkTXLabrat]

the debate of Bonner's value, whether it's as a cheap, familiar, shooting, role player. Or a deceptively costly, irrelevant, bricking, wasted roster spot. proving things, and simply realizing things. the existance of "clutch" and "it factor." it all reminds me of the political debate of libertarian ideology vs common society. who better understands? there is no definitive answer, i suppose. i disagree, but for the sake of peace, i will suppose there is no definitive answer. Since it doesn't really matter, anyways. Pop has a hard on for Bonner, and they've achieved considerable success. Many fans agree and disagree, but Pop and RC make the calls. Fans are truly very insignificant.

just for fun, i found this long debate between libertarian and non-libertarian powerhouses. Fellow Bonner hating, clutch factor believers. If you can't accept that evil has won, i beg you... accept it! watch the video... learn to embrace evil, so that you might learn to better affect it. acceptance is the weapon of the innovators. rejection is the weapon of the evil. if you reject your acceptance, you have lost your ability to affect evil. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AcUkA0tq28

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqA2PVOIJ3c

[T Park]

[QUOTE=SpurPadre;8122440]:bang
:pctoss
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://33.media.tumblr.com/2b682a0442036ac269add89eb7cd4298/tumblr_nfwlqxsnAW1rdhesho1_500.gif


Ah well, I guess there's no such thing as a perfect situation. Still a great offseason.[/QUOTE


Mommy didn't bring down his PBJ sammich without the crusts again

[T Park]

He better be in a suit this season, taking minutes away from any of the young guys is robbery



What young guys? There are no young big men on this team.

[Mugen]

Gimme a smooch, EricB.

[Sean Cagney]

He has plenty of other attributes. He stretches the floor, he makes people laugh, he knows where to get good sandwiches anywhere in the world, and doggone it people like him.

LOL stretches the floor, that is the main defense for him 99% of the time, agreed on the other things so I guess that is why he sticks around. As far as a player goes obviously he is not that talented but as a 14th or 15th man for that price he can stay of the guys like him that much. I would not want him in there during a big playoff game though, no way.

[200 miles]

What young guys? There are no young big men on this team.

What about Boban? I honestly looking forward to seeing him have a decent amount of playing time, but with Matty re-signed, you know there's a good chance Pop will be tempted to use him as a fifth big instead of a sixth.

[SAGirl]

As basically everyone is saying, unless you have a personal dislike for Bonner, you can't really say it's a bad move by itself. Bonner at the end of the bench for the min is fine.

It is a bad move however if it impacts Spurs need for a vet wing. If Spurs don't add him because either they want to have that 15th roster spot open or for financial reasons, then signing Bonner for the min sucks. Spurs just need way more that vet wing than this 6th big. It would be crazy to start bitching about that because we have no clue if the Bonner signing will have some kind of impact on the addition of a vet shooting wing. Not thrilled at all by Bonner, but I guess he is good insurance. For an end of the bench guy he is ok. More and more it seems like the Spurs are sold on KA. I personally like his game and think he is ready for some regular rotation mins. Those who are not sold on him (Darkwaters) are the ones who should be going batshit crazy.
P.S. Bonner = not clutch, really only a very slow release shooter who wilts under pressure. He has kept his % up by making shots with guys nowhere in his vicinity. If someone is within 5 feet and going to closeout, he is not taking that shot.

[keeferob25]

Not thrilled at all by Bonner, but I guess he is good insurance. For an end of the bench guy he is ok. More and more it seems like the Spurs are sold on KA. I personally like his game and think he is ready for some regular rotation mins. Those who are not sold on him (Darkwaters) are the ones who should be going batshit crazy.
P.S. Bonner = not clutch, really only a very slow release shooter who wilts under pressure. He has kept his % up by making shots with guys nowhere in his vicinity. If someone is within 5 feet and going to closeout, he is not taking that shot.

Yeah, I'm a HUGE fan of Bonner the person as he seems genuinely awesome by all accounts. But Bonner the basketball player I have never cared for and he is now fairly useless...at least on the actual court. What annoys me somewhat is this notion that it shouldn't matter much as he's only an insurance or end of the bench guy. Well should that matter? Shouldn't it be filled by someone who CAN make an impact if needed. Look at our history and see that Steve Kerr was an end of the bench guy in 2003. He didn't see ANY minutes against Phoenix. Like 10 minutes against LA. Yet when we NEEDED that end of the bench guy to perform...he saved our asses. Now the need for such a bench player to perform is more an outlier than a norm but it WAS the difference between a win and a loss. Bonner sucks. David Lee was big for GS in the finals this year and he didn't see much time. Jaren Jackson for us was big. Shane Battier was utter garbage in 2013 until he destroyed us in Game 7. Joseph was a difference against OKC with JUST a simple dunk. It matters that you can actually do something on the floor. Bonner really can't. But he's here so welcome back i guess.

[TD 21]

Manu towards the end of the season was playing a less, more around 18 minutes. He was also lacking in scoring and his decision making was compromised the more of a burden you put on him. Spurs signed Simmons bc he can get his own shot as well as shoot the 3. They are developing KA to be a playmaker and a scorer who doesn't need others to create a shot for him. It will be easier for MAnu to play with guys like these, who can hit the 3 but also do their own thing than to have to create looks for a spot up shooter. I agree w/ Manutres. You are thinking this Manu will be like the MAnu of old and he won't be. Second unit will be more dynamic than b4 and less dependent on Manu. He is likely to play a lot off of other guys. He really couldn't at times last year handle all the playmaking burden by himself. He is likely to be even more effective with less of a burden and more help.

Anderson and Simmons are unproven NBA players, let alone rotation ones and rotations ones for a legit contender. Asking either to fill that role, particularly when neither appears an ideal fit, is probably asking too much.

I'm not thinking Ginobili will be the Ginobili of old; I'm thinking he'll be the one he's been in recent seasons. They've been (understandably) somewhat slow transitioning more creative/play making responsibilities to Leonard, who's emerged as one of the best players in the league, but they're going to immediately do so for two unproven nobody's? Suffice it to say, I'll believe it when I see it.

[timtonymanu]

Gimme a smooch, EricB.

:lol

[littlecoyotecoin]

Yeah, I'm a HUGE fan of Bonner the person as he seems genuinely awesome by all accounts. But Bonner the basketball player I have never cared for and he is now fairly useless...at least on the actual court. What annoys me somewhat is this notion that it shouldn't matter much as he's only an insurance or end of the bench guy. Well should that matter? Shouldn't it be filled by someone who CAN make an impact if needed. Look at our history and see that Steve Kerr was an end of the bench guy in 2003. He didn't see ANY minutes against Phoenix. Like 10 minutes against LA. Yet when we NEEDED that end of the bench guy to perform...he saved our asses. Now the need for such a bench player to perform is more an outlier than a norm but it WAS the difference between a win and a loss. Bonner sucks. David Lee was big for GS in the finals this year and he didn't see much time. Jaren Jackson for us was big. Shane Battier was utter garbage in 2013 until he destroyed us in Game 7. Joseph was a difference against OKC with JUST a simple dunk. It matters that you can actually do something on the floor. Bonner really can't. But he's here so welcome back i guess.

David Lee made 15 million last year. He will make 15.5 this year. I think that's right. There are some other issues with your post, but you lose me on that alone. Bonner probably makes 1.5. Don't you think David Lee should be a little more productive?

[Darkwaters]

I didn't see who said that, that you are referring to, but I, Timvp, Baseline Bum, and Popovich disagree, at least in regard to him subbing in for our starting three on some occasions during foul trouble situations, or certain matchups. But, feel free to continue protesting Diaw's inclusion at the end of the SF lists of various posters.

There are some isolated situations where playing Diaw in a limited role at the 3 might make sense. However, they are so few and far between that it's a reach to call him a "backup 3."

[DrunkTXLabrat]

David Lee made 15 million last year. He will make 15.5 this year. I think that's right. There are some other issues with your post, but you lose me on that alone. Bonner probably makes 1.5. Don't you think David Lee should be a little more productive?

you missed the point of the relation to david lee. you followed it to some conclusion of cost, didn't seem to notice that he's talking about what the roster spot can be. cost is regardless. he's talking about having a player, obviously not lee, but like lee. one that produces in the playoffs, or at least one that may more likely turn out to be more of a playoff producer. in opposition to the idea that Bonner is an effective playoff player.

[keeferob25]

And Bonner isn't even worth 1.5. Contract is immaterial to the fact that he is does nothing on the actual NBA court at this point in his career where we could be looking at someone else that COULD be more productive in that role. Again, there's no way you can refute my Kerr point (which is why you jumped straight to Lee) in relation to this notion that because he's end of the bench that it wont matter much. Kerr could still actually shoot...and in the playoffs might I add. Bonner can't and never has. He's useless. You all are clearly mixing your like for the guy and his personality and then pretending there's on the court value. There is none...whether at 15.5 million or a measly 1.5 (in nba standards).

[james evans]

That dude is like jason voorhees and Michael Meyers. He just won't go away no matter what.

[urunobili]

9 years corporate knowledge for the vet minimum? bargain! thanks FO!

[SilverSpur]

I'm happy for him. I think the only way he's not on this team is if he leaves on his own terms.

[spurraider21]

same paycheck as david west

[slick'81]

Still dude was in there on the spurs final play last season.pop just couldn't help himself

[spursistan]

Still dude was in there on the spurs final play last season.pop just couldn't help himself
which is why i think he is going to be a new Sean Marks once he retires moulded for either assistant coach or upstairs position in the front office..Dude has 10 years of service and corporate knowledge ..

[Chillen]

It's over for the rest of the league, the Spurs resigned Matt Bonner. Watch out! :)

[littlecoyotecoin]

There are some isolated situations where playing Diaw in a limited role at the 3 might make sense. However, they are so few and far between that it's a reach to call him a "backup 3."

Whether it makes sense is not even necessary to consider. He can and does play there in spot minutes, which is why I, Timvp, and Baseline Bum, among others, probably, listed him at the end of the list. Why the constant getting bent out of shape over this is sort of comical. Is Diaw a 4 at this point in his career? Yes. This is not a novel idea.

[TheGoldStandard]

Still dude was in there on the spurs final play last season.pop just couldn't help himself

It'll happen again.. Bonner will be subbed in when it's a detriment to the team just for Pop's shits and giggles

[Darkwaters]

Whether it makes sense is not even necessary to consider. He can and does play there in spot minutes, which is why I, Timvp, and Baseline Bum, among others, probably, listed him at the end of the list. Why the constant getting bent out of shape over this is sort of comical. Is Diaw a 4 at this point in his career? Yes. This is not a novel idea.

Manu plays spot minutes at point but nobody lists him as a point.

I love how you have to cite your sources on that one. I'm pretty sure even Timvp listed him as something like "? Diaw ?" when talking about SF's.

Someone should pull off of one of the reference sites just how much 3 Boris has played in the last 2 seasons. It's probably a totally microscopic amount.

[sexinthatsx]

one more year of this:

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/assets/3621689/bonnerpg.gif

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/601188899076100096/84WHLTxC_bigger.jpg Mark Deeks ‏@MarkDeeksNBA (https://twitter.com/MarkDeeksNBA)

Mark Deeks retweeted Brian Windhorst
FWIW, so too do Aaron Brooks, Manu Ginobili and Matt Bonner.
Mark Deeks added,
Brian Windhorst windhorstESPN Due to their (complex) Bird Rights situations both LeBron James & James Jones have no-trade clauses with their new deals.

[SpurPadre]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/601188899076100096/84WHLTxC_bigger.jpg Mark Deeks ‏@MarkDeeksNBA (https://twitter.com/MarkDeeksNBA)

Mark Deeks retweeted Brian Windhorst
FWIW, so too do Aaron Brooks, Manu Ginobili and Matt Bonner.
Mark Deeks added,
Brian Windhorst wind (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14572)horstESPN Due to their (complex) Bird Rights situations both LeBron James & James Jones have no-trade clauses with their new deals.


Another reason to say "Fuck you Bonner" but then again, who else would want him?

[loveforthegame]

628318665281286145

[littlecoyotecoin]

Manu plays spot minutes at point but nobody lists him as a point.

I love how you have to cite your sources on that one. I'm pretty sure even Timvp listed him as something like "? Diaw ?" when talking about SF's.

Someone should pull off of one of the reference sites just how much 3 Boris has played in the last 2 seasons. It's probably a totally microscopic amount.

Just came across this by accident. I cited those as I had seen them all within less than 24 hours of the discussion about how idiotic some of us were listing him there. Timely, and relevant.

You realize that ALL of the players that back up SF will play very few minutes, barring injury, because the guy playing SF is one of the youngest and studliest players at that position, starting. That will leave only about 13 minutes of time to be backed up. Even if Boris only played 3 minutes in a game at the position, 3/13 23% of the available backup minutes that game. Even if it was 5%, I don't see what the problem is listing him as a guy that absorbs some of Kawhi's backup minutes, when he indeed does/has. Whether you call him a SF or PF when he does it is semantically irrelevant to me, and obviously, several other people that have watched a few games where it happens. Do your search and find the percent of time it occurs. You'll just be verifying that it occurs, and choosing to dismiss it because it falls below your arbitrary cut off limit of "doesn't count".

Timvp's "?", and me saying time and again, that his sporatic use at that position being the reason I list him LAST in the depth at backup are basically the same. And, yes people are CONSTANTLY listing Manu as a backup for the point guard position, whether you want to call him a point guard really doesn't matter. The discussion was who will fill those backup minutes.

Boris can, has, and may sub in and specifically guard Kawhi's man again. Although maybe even less so than in the past if Anderson and Simmons can do anything to absorb some of those minutes. But, that might ignite your wadded panties into a rage about the fact that Simmons isn't a small forward! Oh, hell no.

[Seventyniner]

one more year of this:

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/assets/3621689/bonnerpg.gif

This was hilarious, but can you imagine the crap Pop/Tony/Matt would have gotten if this led to an 8-second violation?

[Seventyniner]

Just came across this by accident. I cited those as I had seen them all within less than 24 hours of the discussion about how idiotic some of us were listing him there. Timely, and relevant.

You realize that ALL of the players that back up SF will play very few minutes, barring injury, because the guy playing SF is one of the youngest and studliest players at that position, starting. That will leave only about 13 minutes of time to be backed up. Even if Boris only played 3 minutes in a game at the position, 3/13 23% of the available backup minutes that game. Even if it was 5%, I don't see what the problem is listing him as a guy that absorbs some of Kawhi's backup minutes, when he indeed does/has. Whether you call him a SF or PF when he does it is semantically irrelevant to me, and obviously, several other people that have watched a few games where it happens. Do your search and find the percent of time it occurs. You'll just be verifying that it occurs, and choosing to dismiss it because it falls below your arbitrary cut off limit of "doesn't count".

Timvp's "?", and me saying time and again, that his sporatic use at that position being the reason I list him LAST in the depth at backup are basically the same. And, yes people are CONSTANTLY listing Manu as a backup for the point guard position, whether you want to call him a point guard really doesn't matter. The discussion was who will fill those backup minutes.

Boris can, has, and may sub in and specifically guard Kawhi's man again. Although maybe even less so than in the past if Anderson and Simmons can do anything to absorb some of those minutes. But, that might ignite your wadded panties into a rage about the fact that Simmons isn't a small forward! Oh, hell no.

I agree with your larger point that Boris can give 3-4 MPG at SF against some teams. He can check backup/3rd-string SFs who aren't shooting threats, and there are a handful of those in the league. Backup SF is by committee on this team, just like it has been since Stephen Jackson was cut.

[SAGirl]

My only objection with all of these arguments is that Kawhi is a stud who has been injured each season, playing about 60 games per season. In addition, of those games he does play, if they evolve into blow out situations, other guys at the end of the bench will get time, because there is no point in wearing Kawhi down during a long season. Obviously against playoff teams he will play playoff like minutes (about 35-37), but otherwise his minutes will be toned down. My point is that there will be minutes available and there are guys that are good enough for those minutes. If he is out for a lengthy period due to injury (I hope not), like he was last year for example then no one you have on the team will be adequate bc Kawhi is a franchise player and he is just that good. Pop will play next man up regardless, but you can't criticize other guys bc they are not in his level. He is a max level player, DPYO, FMVP, etc. If you expect anyone else to substitute him on that level then you are being unrealistic, but otherwise, I think Anderson and Simmons will be adequate enough.

[Bruno]

628318665281286145

Eric¨Pincus had previously Bonner fully non-guaranteed.The theory that he mixed Bonner and Fredette guarantees looks strong. I expect Fredette to be confirmed as fully non guaranteed when he or someone else will check again.

The $795K figure is also likely wrong. The exact figure he is giving is $794,594. Bonner full salary is $1,499,187, half of that is $749,594. Sounds a lot like a typo with two digits being inverted.

A part of Bonner full salary will be reimbursed by the league and Spurs will only have to pay $947,276 for him. He will also cost the $947K against the tax. Bonner contract isn't in fact 50% guaranteed, it's about 80% guaranteed. Because of a CBA point, there is also a no trade clause associated with that contract.

tl,dr: Matt Bonner should stay the whole year with Spurs.

[MaNu4Tres]

Eric¨Pincus had previously Bonner fully non-guaranteed.The theory that he mixed Bonner and Fredette guarantees looks strong. I expect Fredette to be confirmed as fully non guaranteed when he or someone else will check again.

The $795K figure is also likely wrong. The exact figure he is giving is $794,594. Bonner full salary is $1,499,187, half of that is $749,594. Sounds a lot like a typo with two digits being inverted.

A part of Bonner full salary will be reimbursed by the league and Spurs will only have to pay $947,276 for him. He will also cost the $947K against the tax. Bonner contract isn't in fact 50% guaranteed, it's about 80% guaranteed. Because of a CBA point, there is also a no trade clause associated with that contract.

tl,dr: Matt Bonner should stay the whole year with Spurs.

628362418528354304

[Bruno]

628362418528354304

He is just answering by looking at the old numbers he put in his database and a safe guess is that they are wrong.

[Chinook]

" Bruno holding the line, standing tall, sticking to his guns. 'Get that outta here!' he says to MaNu4Tres . Suffocating D inside, hard fouls in the paint, swatting balls into the stands. You shall not pass. Bruno taking control late in the fourth."

http://www.rantsports.com/clubhouse/files/2014/11/markjackson-copy.jpg

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Eric¨Pincus had previously Bonner fully non-guaranteed.The theory that he mixed Bonner and Fredette guarantees looks strong. I expect Fredette to be confirmed as fully non guaranteed when he or someone else will check again.

The $795K figure is also likely wrong. The exact figure he is giving is $794,594. Bonner full salary is $1,499,187, half of that is $749,594. Sounds a lot like a typo with two digits being inverted.

A part of Bonner full salary will be reimbursed by the league and Spurs will only have to pay $947,276 for him. He will also cost the $947K against the tax. Bonner contract isn't in fact 50% guaranteed, it's about 80% guaranteed. Because of a CBA point, there is also a no trade clause associated with that contract.

tl,dr: Matt Bonner should stay the whole year with Spurs.

Nice. :smokin Bruno with the goods.

Sounds like Eric Pincus needs to quit tweeting.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

" Bruno holding the line, standing tall, sticking to his guns. 'Get that outta here!' he says to MaNu4Tres . Suffocating D inside, hard fouls in the paint, swatting balls into the stands. You shall not pass. Bruno taking control late in the fourth."

http://www.rantsports.com/clubhouse/files/2014/11/markjackson-copy.jpg



Why are MJ's quotes so lame?! The "hands down, man down" one is the worst of all. He's usually a better announcer when the TV is on mute.

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Val1NYPlNlQ

[playbonner15]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Val1NYPlNlQ
2 time champion :lobt2::lobt2:

[DrunkTXLabrat]

It's not enough to wet the bed. Sign the new Richard Jefferson, and don't worry about the cap pressure. The real beauty is the following stages of bed wettery.

Ignore the cold shivers. Green, Timmy, Manu there's some wiggle room there.

Induce a nightmarish dream. Why would you want a return on investment? Splitter and Joseph can practically just go.

Then there's what you hope is the final stage. Give up and hide the wet linen, this is the faux encore. The icing on the cake moves. Bring in Bobarian. Take a look at Copeland, pretend you couldn't send Beli and Baynes away before the deadline. Send LJC back to France. Admit summer league is just a show for Anderson and Simmons, nobody else ever had a real shot. And of course re-sign Matt Bonner. Real solid stuff.

Then there's the encore... the moment we have asked for and shall recieve... mom and dad finding out... the tragic playoff bounce! perhaps in conference finals to Golden State, to be fair the Spurs did a pretty good job making the bed look normal. Ah, but the stench of dry piss is too strong! If mom and dad didn't smell it, they surely noticed the Spurs sheet-less bed rash. I'm holding out hope for a truly unexpected surprise, last years Clippers is too easy. The Spurs are better than that, what i'm imagining is something incredible. a first round exit to the 7 seed timberwolves, a truly triumphant moment for KG. He can go on to be the coach of a new, much less Bonnery/bed wettery small town dynasty. or an uglier small town dynasty story. A second round exit to the breath of fresh air Billy Donovan Thunder. All that depth, and even a touch a Spursy flavor like Collisons ridiculous longevity and the totally unfathomable presence of Novak. Money on the thunder, but God i hope KG is hungry.