In hindsight, should we have traded Diaw instead of Splitter?

[Uriel]

On paper, Mills-Ginobili-Anderson-West-Splitter makes far more sense than Mills-Ginobili-Anderson-Diaw-West, especially considering the latter group has three playmakers and no rim protector.

[100%duncan]

No

[Richie]

Diaw would have cost us a pick to get rid of whereas Splitter we dumped for nothing. Diaw also makes less salary and since we didn't know what the cap could be we had to plan for a 67m cap.

[ceperez]

WTF? And give away the team's best playmaker???!

Give away this player?

https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/Fj158H5z9i1wTQ1Smzz-b88-eG8=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3738620/052915_BorisDance.0.gif

Have you lost your marbles???!

[benefactor]

Diaw has basically zero value to any team other than the Spurs. It was always going to be Splitter.

[From Downtown]

Splitter has way more value,I doubt anybody wanted Diaw

[Old School 44]

Diaw has basically zero value to any team other than the Spurs. It was always going to be Splitter.

[buttsR4rebounding]

On paper, Mills-Ginobili-Anderson-West-Splitter makes far more sense than Mills-Ginobili-Anderson-Diaw-West, especially considering the latter group has three playmakers and no rim protector.

I think they would have preferred to do that (especially with the West signing and the cap coming in where it did), but alas, CIA Pop has not perfected peering into the future. Probably too much wine.

[jag]

Diaw has basically zero value to any team other than the Spurs. It was always going to be Splitter.

common sense goods

[TheLoop]

Also Diaw gives flexibility to the lineups, being able to play big and small (medium-ball:lol) without giving up too much

[Kikoluna]

On paper, Mills-Ginobili-Anderson-West-Splitter makes far more sense than Mills-Ginobili-Anderson-Diaw-West, especially considering the latter group has three playmakers and no rim protector.
Anderson in second unit? He's more of a third unit guy. I Thought that Was a given.

[Lerojo]

No. Splitter couldn't run or jump anymore, whereas Boris has based his game on not being able to run or jump as well as the other guys, and yet be effective.

[Kikoluna]

Tough. Splitter has upper hand on d, but boris is money on offense. With west and giant guy on board, I guess f.o. decided to sacrifice Tiago. He will be missed. Great player and teammate...Manu's boy.

[spursistan]

No..not even considering Splitter hitherto frustrating health record which is going to get even more unreliable as he ages..I think the NBA has changed and been tending more versatility and small ball...Tiago would have been more untouchable if we still have to deal with prime Dirk and Zbo or the Lakers twin towers while another tough cover is joining pour ranks in LMA...As for Diaw, i could honestly see him retire in NBA as a Spurs..At this point, only Pop and this team environment can extract what's left in him game and effort wise..You think Boris will give a fuck if he gets traded to the Magic/Bucks next time? :lol

[cd021]

It does make more sense with West pairing with Splitter. off the bench I think playing Diaw/West as the backup bench is fine but for 20 mpg off the bench Splitter would be a better fit.

I like Diaw a lot though, even though he had a mediocre regular season before turning it on in the playoffs.

[cd021]

Anderson in second unit? He's more of a third unit guy. I Thought that Was a given.

Anderson is ,likely, getting backup 3 minutes. Unless Pop wants Manu to play the 3 and go with Mills and Simmons as the backup back court.

[Dex]

Anderson in second unit? He's more of a third unit guy. I Thought that Was a given.

Unless Simmons just blows the coaches' minds in training camp, KA will start the season as the primary backup to Kawhi.

[ElNono]

On paper, Mills-Ginobili-Anderson-West-Splitter makes far more sense than Mills-Ginobili-Anderson-Diaw-West, especially considering the latter group has three playmakers and no rim protector.

Why not Mills-Ginobili-Diaw-West-Marjanovic??? That makes just as much sense if you want to have a classical C in there.

[ElNono]

Don't forget Tiago also had the bigger contract, tbh... there were also financial reasons to move him and open up more space for all the signings...

[cd021]

On paper, Mills-Ginobili-Anderson-West-Splitter makes far more sense than Mills-Ginobili-Anderson-Diaw-West, especially considering the latter group has three playmakers and no rim protector.

Actually read an article about West's passing ability, apparently he put up similar passing numbers to Diaw last season and on a far worse offensive team. That unit really has four good play makers.

[look_at_g_shred]

Diaw has basically zero value to any team other than the Spurs. It was always going to be Splitter.
any exhaust work on her?

[cd021]

Why not Mills-Ginobili-Diaw-West-Marjanovic??? That makes just as much sense if you want to have a classical C in there.

Diaw's shooting numbers outside of the paint were pretty bad last season.

10-16 Feet-.383
16-23 Feet-.375
23> (3PT)-.320
Playoff 3pt-.222

I'm not entirely sold on Anderson's 3pt shot but I'm not sold that playing two PFs and a C could space the floor well enough. West and Diaw and knock down mid range jumpers and Boban can a bit as well (from what I've heard)

Memphis inadvertently played a similar lineup with Allen/Prince-Randolph-Gasol. Their small forwards couldn't shoot so they had their entire front court taking 15-18 footers instead.

[Dre_7]

Diaw is not hurt most of the season and playoffs. The right decision was made.

[Spurs9]

http://cdn.nextimpulsesports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/tiagosplitter.gif
http://media.giphy.com/media/4LUmsxHXFyN7G/giphy.gif
http://images1.browardpalmbeach.com/imager/lebron-james-obliterates-tiago-splitter-wi/u/original/6469359/lebron_blocks_splitter.jpg
Yeah I think we made the right choice.

[ElNono]

Diaw's shooting numbers outside of the paint were pretty bad last season.

10-16 Feet-.383
16-23 Feet-.375
23> (3PT)-.320
Playoff 3pt-.222

I'm not entirely sold on Anderson's 3pt shot but I'm not sold that playing two PFs and a C could space the floor well enough. West and Diaw and knock down mid range jumpers and Boban can a bit as well (from what I've heard)

Memphis inadvertently played a similar lineup with Allen/Prince-Randolph-Gasol. Their small forwards couldn't shoot so they had their entire front court taking 15-18 footers instead.

He can post up and West space the floor, on top of making plays for everybody else. That's the beauty of being stacked, tbh... Then on defense he can get some rest instead of banging with big men...

[ceperez]

http://cdn.nextimpulsesports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/tiagosplitter.gif

Yeah I think we made the right choice.

I guess that GIF seals the answer for good!

Spurs got lucky to have given him away!!

[Uriel]

This isn't a debate about who between Splitter and Diaw is the better player. It's a debate about who fits better alongside David West in the second unit. In my view, Splitter on paper would seem to be the better fit.

Of course, as numerous people have pointed out, there were other considerations (e.g. length of the contract, health, etc). But I believe that the team ultimately would've been better off with a true center in the 2nd unit, rather than having 2 power forwards.

[spursistan]

Don't forget Tiago also had the bigger contract, tbh... there were also financial reasons to move him and open up more space for all the signings...
Let's not forget the health factor, tbh..I think Pop soured on him in the end..Missing a combined 53 games the past two seasons was not the way to go forward with Timmy pushing 40..Diaw, coasting and whatnot, still has been a real work horse or the team since he joined us only missing 11 games the past 3 seasons..

[Uriel]

Actually read an article about West's passing ability, apparently he put up similar passing numbers to Diaw last season and on a far worse offensive team. That unit really has four good play makers.
Exactly. The second unit doesn't need four playmakers. It needs a rim protector. Diaw's skill set in that unit is redundant.


Why not Mills-Ginobili-Diaw-West-Marjanovic??? That makes just as much sense if you want to have a classical C in there.
Marvonovic is a classical C, but he's no rim protector. The 2nd unit needs a rim protector.

[San Antonio Slayer]

Diaw has basically zero value to any team other than the Spurs. It was always going to be Splitter.

it was all about whom coach Bud wanted more.

[look_at_g_shred]

Nah, Diaw is a bad matchup for many teams in the playoffs. When he's on, he's far superior than a healthy Tiago Splitter. You can't underestimate what he brings to the team, and with the splitter trade, the FO see this as well. There is no one in the league like him. You can find another Splitter.

[San Antonio Slayer]

Exactly. The second unit doesn't need four playmakers. It needs a rim protector. Diaw's skill set in that unit is redundant.


Marvonovic is a classical C, but he's no rim protector. The 2nd unit needs a rim protector.

the 2nd unit must provide scoring punch. Diaw is the best all around big man. Splitter couldn't create and score by himself, only pick-and-rolls and foul drawings.

[jeebus]

We
:lmao

[Uriel]

Diaw has basically zero value to any team other than the Spurs. It was always going to be Splitter.
Well, it's not like we get anything of value out of Splitter anyway. It was essentially a salary dump. Besides, if we offered Atlanta Diaw for free (the way we did Splitter), I doubt Bud would refuse.

[Uriel]

the 2nd unit must provide scoring punch. Diaw is the best all around big man. Splitter couldn't create and score by himself, only pick-and-rolls and foul drawings.
The 2nd team already has two playmakers in Ginobili and Anderson, as well as a skilled passer in West. The second unit doesn't need more offense. It needs more defense.

[100%duncan]

Mozgov and Bogut, traditional C's and rim protectors were benched on the finals. Marc Gasol, a rim protector, cant do anything against GSW. We didnt have a rim protector due to Splitter's health which is conveniently disragarded in these types of cnversations yet a contender like the clippers needed 7 games and late game heroics to beat us.

[Uriel]

Nah, Diaw is a bad matchup for many teams in the playoffs. When he's on, he's far superior than a healthy Tiago Splitter. You can't underestimate what he brings to the team, and with the splitter trade, the FO see this as well. There is no one in the league like him. You can find another Splitter.
Again, this isn't a debate about who between Splitter and Diaw is the better player. It's a debate about who between the two fits better alongside David West in the 2nd unit.

[Uriel]

Mozgov and Bogut, traditional C's and rim protectors were benched on the finals. Marc Gasol, a rim protector, cant do anything against GSW. We didnt have a rim protector due to Splitter's health which is conveniently disragarded in these types of cnversations yet a contender like the clippers needed 7 games and late game heroics to beat us.
I see your point. There are certainly several matchups in the playoffs where we would be better off with Diaw than Splitter.

But you can't compare the two players in isolation. You have to look at them in the context of who they're playing with and the entire length of an 82-game regular season. Under those circumstances, I think you and I can both agree that it's better to have a rim protector in the second unit than none at all.

[Uriel]

Diaw would have cost us a pick to get rid of whereas Splitter we dumped for nothing. Diaw also makes less salary and since we didn't know what the cap could be we had to plan for a 67m cap.
Yes, that's true, which is why I put "in hindsight" in the thread title.

Also, I disagree that we would've had to package a pick to dump Diaw. If we offered Atlanta Diaw for free (the way we did Splitter), I seriously doubt Coach Bud would've refused.

[Yuixafun]

Start Diaw with Lma ��

Duncan comes off the bench as your coveted 2nd unit rim protector

[el contusione]

On paper, Mills-Ginobili-Anderson-West-Splitter makes far more sense than Mills-Ginobili-Anderson-Diaw-West, especially considering the latter group has three playmakers and no rim protector.
I think you make a good point. Our second unit is quite small. I will be interesting to see how pop will shuffle the line ups and manage the minutes with Diaw, West, and Marjanovic. Splitter would have played with LMA and would have given more rest to TD. It would have been a crazy pick and roll situation with Manu, Tiago, and West. It is what it is now. The FO had to do it at the time. No matter what, Spurs second unit is the best in the league.

[SpurAddict561]

I'd be willing to bet the bank that LeBron, in a million years, wouldn't stuff Boban going up for a dunk........

We couldn't have pulled off our offseason if we didn't dump Tiago's contract to Atlanta.

[benefactor]

any exhaust work on her?
Did a resonator delete. Sounds bad ass now. I'm doing the Scat Pack upgrade eventually.

[San Antonio Slayer]

The 2nd team already has two playmakers in Ginobili and Anderson, as well as a skilled passer in West. The second unit doesn't need more offense. It needs more defense.
Anderson is too young to be the main creator of our bench offense. Manu will play limited minutes and games. I am ok if the bench will have a mess under our rim while scoring 50+ points per game. West is a good passer but with his age he is better on the center than on PF. Anyway our best five was with Diaw at center 3 seasons in a row. We are witnessing the small ball era)))

[Spur|n|Austin]

Diaw has basically zero value to any team other than the Spurs. It was always going to be Splitter.

[cd021]

He can post up and West space the floor, on top of making plays for everybody else. That's the beauty of being stacked, tbh... Then on defense he can get some rest instead of banging with big men...

Recent history shows that playing 3 bigs just can't work outside of limited minutes in certain situations. Diaw and West can both post, pass and shoot but at the end of the day both can only hit consistently from about 18 feet. Teams will sag off one of those two and recover forcing them to put the ball on the floor or shoot a contested mid range jumper.

Utah tried this in '13 when they played Milsap, Jefferson and Favors together. They were very good defensively and crashed the glass but got murdered on offense.

Spurs will probably go Anderson-West-Diaw and have Boban play spot minutes or even start in the dozen or so games Duncan rests. At least with that unit Anderson has more range even though his 3pt shot is still a bit unproven. The Bench crew has been much more of an offensive unit ,anyways, for the past few seasons. As long as they can blow the doors off teams offensively and not be a joke on the other end they're be a plus.

[MultiTroll]

Even if one thought Splitters rim protection > Diaws overall game, the health factor makes the Diaw choice right all the way.

Wish Splitts the best but it's a mystery as to how many playoff games he will show up in next year. If he stays healthy he should excell in the Least.

[spurraider21]

we discussed this before free agency, too. i thought trading boris made more sense, but the salaries made it so tiago made more sense

[ElNono]

Marvonovic is a classical C, but he's no rim protector. The 2nd unit needs a rim protector.

What do you call a "rim protector"? To me, a rim protector is a shot blocker/excellent rebounder, and Splitter was none of that. Splitter was a terrific pick and roll defender and a bruiser with quick feet.

[ElNono]

Recent history shows that playing 3 bigs just can't work outside of limited minutes in certain situations. Diaw and West can both post, pass and shoot but at the end of the day both can only hit consistently from about 18 feet. Teams will sag off one of those two and recover forcing them to put the ball on the floor or shoot a contested mid range jumper.

Utah tried this in '13 when they played Milsap, Jefferson and Favors together. They were very good defensively and crashed the glass but got murdered on offense.

Spurs will probably go Anderson-West-Diaw and have Boban play spot minutes or even start in the dozen or so games Duncan rests. At least with that unit Anderson has more range even though his 3pt shot is still a bit unproven. The Bench crew has been much more of an offensive unit ,anyways, for the past few seasons. As long as they can blow the doors off teams offensively and not be a joke on the other end they're be a plus.

Pop doesn't consider Diaw a "big". He used to call the frontline pairing of him and Tim, "medium ball". In other words, Boris is tall, but that doesn't mean he plays like a classical big.

EDIT: to the 2nd part, the Spurs will trot many lineups out there, depending on the opponent or whatever experiments Pop want to try out. The point is that we have the talent to match up despite losing Tiago.

[look_at_g_shred]

Did a resonator delete. Sounds bad ass now. I'm doing the Scat Pack upgrade eventually.
Tight. I have 2014 charger se v6 (yeah i know :lol ) I converted her to dual exhaust. Two super 44's in the middle with resonator delete. Sounds good, but I want a deeper tone. I was looking at the super 10's maybe i'll go that route.

[Mr Bones]

Splitter was once (it seems like a long time ago now) thought of as the best center in Europe, and Boban was thought of in the same way last year... so the Spurs got a younger & much less expensive center who probably hasn't even reached his prime yet, and in the process picked up a 6'11" Aldridge... I think they're fine. Shot blocking is generally overrated in my opinion-- solid D is better than flashy blocks, which is why guys like Dalembert, Camby, and many others have had great numbers but weren't necessarily defensive anchors. Bogut definitely helped Golden State against Memphis, but against Cleveland they were better with a 6'6" or 6'7" guy playing center... even Kawhi has more length than either Iggy or Draymond Green, so there's your 4th string center!

[kobyz]

Diaw seems to become somewhat satisfied after the title, someone need to slap him in the face to refocus him...

[THE SAMOAN TD]

Tiago is not really a rim protector anyways he was just a banger more positional defense. Besides in the 2nd unit Diaw and West is better than most outside of a few teams.

[Brazil]

Since when Boris has no value other than Spurs ?

crazy talk here... Just for his versality I'm pretty sure lots of teams would love to have him

[tmtcsc]

Remember those games Diaw sat out with an injury? Me neither. Splitter was unreliable.

[td4mvp21]

I'm going to miss Splitter, but I trust Diaw so much more in playoff situations. He had some huge road games in 2014.

[spurs10]

While Diaw and West have similar skill sets, they are an abundance of wealth. I believe LMA will start with Tim, but that Pop won't always be playing West and Diaw together. Can't wait to see the rotations...there will be many. I expect to see the big minutes mostly being split between Tim, LMA, West, and Diaw with Boban and Bonner filling in.

[Seventyniner]

Don't forget Tiago also had the bigger contract, tbh... there were also financial reasons to move him and open up more space for all the signings...

This. The choice wasn't between trading Diaw or Splitter, it was likely Diaw + Mills or Splitter. I think the Spurs made the right choice. That and dumping Diaw might have cost a pick.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Diaw is our Robert Horry, tbh

[FromWayDowntown]

The question is ultimately whether it was better for the Spurs to give up Splitter or Boris and (probably) Patty (given where things stood at the beginning of free agency).

I personally think that Tiago was more expendable than Boris for a number of reasons, mostly because (as others have pointed out) he's more versatile and can contribute against a lot of teams in a lot of circumstances in a lot of ways -- more than Tiago likely could, particularly given that Tiago became unplayable at times against certain types of teams.

But I don't think, at the time of the trade, that the question for the Spurs was simply Boris OR Tiago. It was Boris and Patty OR Tiago and in that instance, the decision the Spurs ultimately made is pretty clearly the better choice.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Tiago is not really a rim protector anyways he was just a banger more positional defense. Besides in the 2nd unit Diaw and West is better than most outside of a few teams.

Yes, he was. He was usually in the right spot between the offensive player and the rim to get vertical; raise his hands, and alter/make shots more difficult. In this regard, he was a very good rim protector. No, he didn't block a lot of shots at the rim, there wasn't a lot of flash. But, he was generally where he needed to be when he needed to be there, and his height alone was enough to make a difference. Boban won't be able to get into the right place in time in many situations to be as effective, is my initial guess. Tim's slowing. West, Diaw, etc don't have that kind of height. It all boils down to Aldridge needing to provide some rim protection as a center for us, hopefully.

[rmt]

Again, this isn't a debate about who between Splitter and Diaw is the better player. It's a debate about who between the two fits better alongside David West in the 2nd unit.

You're gonna trade away players based on who fits better alongside vet min's David West. Who knows if West will be around next year (especially if he wins a ring)? Diaw offers much more flexibility - being able to spell KL and occasionally guard Lebron. With the league moving toward more small ball, Diaw is the perfect answer to that. GSW and CLE will go to small ball to force Duncan/West off the floor - that's where Diaw comes in. As long as TP is playing, Diaw will be happy in SA although he seems like he's taking the Horry route and waking up only for the playoffs.

[SAGirl]

No..not even considering Splitter hitherto frustrating health record which is going to get even more unreliable as he ages..I think the NBA has changed and been tending more versatility and small ball...Tiago would have been more untouchable if we still have to deal with prime Dirk and Zbo or the Lakers twin towers while another tough cover is joining pour ranks in LMA...As for Diaw, i could honestly see him retire in NBA as a Spurs..At this point, only Pop and this team environment can extract what's left in him game and effort wise..You think Boris will give a fuck if he gets traded to the Magic/Bucks next time? :lol

I agree with all of this. Tiago barely played last year TBH. He appeared in about 50 games but only looked good in about 20, he was always in and out, on minutes restrictions, or playing poorly bc of lack of stamina. Heck Baynes dumped him to the bench and started for the team. Bonner started about 20 games playing over 20 minutes over the course of those games. etc. In contrast Boris was a stud, played a full 80 games and yea, sometimes he looked gassed and had no legs to shoot from range, but you could count on him. Boris also is HOrry like, he makes appearances in big games TBH. Tiago was fading. He may have a resurgence in his career if he can stay healthy, and he is still a very good player when he's healthy, but aren't those qualifiers already that ppl use for Parker (an everyone hates on him on a daily basis here).

Diaw, much better than Tiago for the team TBH.

[mudyez]

Tough. Splitter has upper hand on d, but boris is money on offense. With west and giant guy on board, I guess f.o. ...

I just read FUCK OFF

...and your damn right!

[SAGirl]

Let's not forget the health factor, tbh..I think Pop soured on him in the end..Missing a combined 53 games the past two seasons was not the way to go forward with Timmy pushing 40..Diaw, coasting and whatnot, still has been a real work horse or the team since he joined us only missing 11 games the past 3 seasons..
:lol
lol I had to laugh at Diaw coasting and what not, so true. /rofl The guy coasted at times but boy Pop worked him a whole lot, no rest on B2B for Diaw. Play with 3r stringers in the bench Diaw!!!! I thin Pop wanted to keep him in shape. lol

[SAGirl]

Again, this isn't a debate about who between Splitter and Diaw is the better player. It's a debate about who between the two fits better alongside David West in the 2nd unit.
Someone already mentioned it early in the thread, but there was no knowing the future. Splitter's higher salary made more sense to move. Otherwise it would have been Diaw Mills, and Pop wanted Mills if at all possible (with good reason). Who knew West would end up coming here, not a guarantee. Diaw had the potential to be a bench leader together with Mills if Manu retired (also an unknown). There were too many unknowns at the time, hindsight is always 20/20.

[Proxy]

I think the right decision was made, with versatility and health in mind.

[dabom]

You can play better around the player you can depend on. Not around injuries. We made the right choice.

[THE SAMOAN TD]

Yes, he was. He was usually in the right spot between the offensive player and the rim to get vertical; raise his hands, and alter/make shots more difficult. In this regard, he was a very good rim protector. No, he didn't block a lot of shots at the rim, there wasn't a lot of flash. But, he was generally where he needed to be when he needed to be there, and his height alone was enough to make a difference. Boban won't be able to get into the right place in time in many situations to be as effective, is my initial guess. Tim's slowing. West, Diaw, etc don't have that kind of height. It all boils down to Aldridge needing to provide some rim protection as a center for us, hopefully.
Tiago plays great position defense thats what I said, but hes not gonna block shots or scare any one from driving inside on the Spurs. Will we miss Tiago in some places, sure but West is no scrub and neither is Diaw Spurs will be fine on the defensive end.

[T Park]

This isn't a debate about who between Splitter and Diaw is the better player. It's a debate about who fits better alongside David West in the second unit. In my view, Splitter on paper would seem to be the better fit.

Of course, as numerous people have pointed out, there were other considerations (e.g. length of the contract, health, etc). But I believe that the team ultimately would've been better off with a true center in the 2nd unit, rather than having 2 power forwards.


Yeah that works in fantasy basketball sure.

[T Park]

Well, it's not like we get anything of value out of Splitter anyway. It was essentially a salary dump. Besides, if we offered Atlanta Diaw for free (the way we did Splitter), I doubt Bud would refuse.



Atlanta who has power forwards coming out of their ears, trades for Diaw instead of Splitter?

[T Park]

Since when Boris has no value other than Spurs ?

crazy talk here... Just for his versality I'm pretty sure lots of teams would love to have him



After what he pulled in Charlotte? Yeah his value is purely to the Spurs.

[spurraider21]

Marvonovic is a classical C, but he's no rim protector.
and how would you classify Splitter?

[TXstbobcat]

The spurs made the right move. I would rather have Bobo than Splitter on the Spurs.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Tiago plays great position defense thats what I said, but hes not gonna block shots or scare any one from driving inside on the Spurs. Will we miss Tiago in some places, sure but West is no scrub and neither is Diaw Spurs will be fine on the defensive end.

He doesn't have to scare anyone to protect the rim. He did alter shots.

[MultiTroll]

What do you call a "rim protector"?
I hope Chump doesn't comment on this.
Meh, usually stays clear of the Spurs Forum.

[JuneJive]

I don't think there ever was any intention by the PATFO to trade/salary dump Diaw / Mills.
Splitter, from the get-go, seemed like an ideal player, bussines issues included, to get moved.

His skillset is specific yet very useful to many teams, while Diaw, even though his bbiq is high, and is highly versatile, i don't see many teams willing to take him on as i don't think he can be as effective in non-Spurs surroundings.

Tiago is an excellent defender, with a soft touch on the other side. He is a player with a more sought after skillset.

[Darkwaters]

This isn't a debate about who between Splitter and Diaw is the better player. It's a debate about who fits better alongside David West in the second unit. In my view, Splitter on paper would seem to be the better fit.

Of course, as numerous people have pointed out, there were other considerations (e.g. length of the contract, health, etc). But I believe that the team ultimately would've been better off with a true center in the 2nd unit, rather than having 2 power forwards.

Pretty sure that David West wasn't available when we traded Splitter. And even if he technically was, he definitely hadn't agreed to a contract. Hindsight is 20/20 afterall - but we didn't know that West was coming until he actually came.

[K...]

It's still a mystery how much splitter is worth. I thought he was worth a late lottery pick but instead he's worth a fucking greek deadbeat.

of course, we know splitter was traded to give the spurs flexibility, so he may still have been worth the pick but SA wanted to get the timing exactly right and forwent offers on draft day.





Anyway, i was going to laugh at op for hindsight, we haven't seen a minute of the new team and he wants to reconsider....but i do think that if PAFTO had known we'd get West, Mccolly, Jimmer, Simmons, and a Good KA, maybe we'd have given up mills/diaw




but trading Mills/diaw would have required some heavy lifting and persuasion.




Ultimately, the spurs went with the best choice at the time. The team is so stacked that second guessing is dumb. T/F op is a fail.

[barbacoataco]

West can handle any big man from a 2nd unit, and he really can handle just amount any big man from a starting unit. He is way stronger and tougher as a defender than some here realize.

[Nathan89]

Diaw has value to other contenders.

I rather have Diaw over Splitter. He makes us a versatile team. Can't wait to watch Lma and Diaw lineups.

[barbacoataco]

Can't wait to watch Lma and Diaw lineups.[/QUOTE]

What about having Duncan, LMA, West and Diaw to use in different combinations? They are all big men with playmaking skills and high IQ.

[littlecoyotecoin]

West can handle any big man from a 2nd unit, and he really can handle just amount any big man from a starting unit. He is way stronger and tougher as a defender than some here realize.


Stronger and tougher don't make you three inches taller, your wingspan any wider, feet any quicker, or your age ten years younger. West is a bonafide badass, but he still has some limitations.

[barbacoataco]

Who are all these 7 ft with skills playing on 2nd units around the NBA? West might give up an inch or two at the most, and he is a strong player that doesn't get pushed around. His numbers were down a little last year, but the previous 2 he ranked top 10 in NBA defensive rating. Players his age often re-energize with a new team for a year or two. Especially with the
Spurs managing his minutes. Plus his mid range jumper will make him effective coming off the bench.

[GSH]

The question is ultimately whether it was better for the Spurs to give up Splitter or Boris and (probably) Patty (given where things stood at the beginning of free agency).

I personally think that Tiago was more expendable than Boris for a number of reasons, mostly because (as others have pointed out) he's more versatile and can contribute against a lot of teams in a lot of circumstances in a lot of ways -- more than Tiago likely could, particularly given that Tiago became unplayable at times against certain types of teams.

But I don't think, at the time of the trade, that the question for the Spurs was simply Boris OR Tiago. It was Boris and Patty OR Tiago and in that instance, the decision the Spurs ultimately made is pretty clearly the better choice.


If the choice is Splitter vs. Boris + Patty, the math doesn't come close. Spurs really, really need that backup PG. If Patty is fully recovered, and as good as he was at the end of the 14 season, he's an absolute necessity.

As for Tiago vs. Boris? Just keep saying "LaMarcus Aldridge". Assume trading Tiago was the only way, and it feels pretty good.

[100%duncan]

I see your point. There are certainly several matchups in the playoffs where we would be better off with Diaw than Splitter.

But you can't compare the two players in isolation. You have to look at them in the context of who they're playing with and the entire length of an 82-game regular season. Under those circumstances, I think you and I can both agree that it's better to have a rim protector in the second unit than none at all.

Because it's unfair to look at it as a rim protector vs too many playmakers issue. You have to look at what you got by trading splitter and you would have lost by trading Diaw because of salary. Another thing is that, this rim protecting traditional C is too overblown, the Spurs wont be playing against Howard, AD,Gasol every night. And like Nono said, Splitter wasnt even a rim protector but was rather an elite pnr defender and low-post defender. LMA is already a good low-post defender and can be taught to guard the pnr since he is still relatively young and quick. And you have to take in consideration who you might have lost out if you traded diaw instead etc2. Lastly, when was the last time Diaw's health became a detriment to the team? Never. Splitter was rather unreliable. Do you want to bank another season on that?

[LiSpurs516]

Splitter helped us get to the '14 finals, but without Diaw we don't win it tbh. In terms of this off season, Tiago had to go for salary dump purposes. Personally I'd much rather see Splitter leave then diaw, used to lose my mind watching splitter get denied 3,4,5 times at the rim. So soft.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Disagree that Boris wouldn't be valuable to other contenders, however, not to Atlanta obviously, as they have lots of PFs and needed a true center. Also, it seems the Spurs were willing to work with them on the trade instead of dumping him to another team with cap space for a lot of reasons, including sending Splitter to a good situation where he knows Bud and he'll play rather than burying him in the NBA purgatory that Philly or Sacramento are. It raises their image to FAs when they show they care about their own even when trading them. Morey or Hinkie would have probably looked for the best possible asset they could get without giving a damn about the player being traded, but not Pop and RC.

[AFMadison]

Diaw is our Robert Horry, tbh

I like that. I will miss Splitter's defense though, but one of the guys he played that great defense against during that 2014 finals run is now on our team. Bobo also stretches the floor and is our best passing big. His defense I think will come more in handy in the future, sometimes he's put on Lebron and sometimes Durant. Bobo can also stay healthy.

[sexinthatsx]

PATFO is just that much more confident in Boban Marjanovic tbh.

[Nathan89]

PATFO is just that much more confident in Boban Marjanovic tbh.

Boban doesn't factor in to the decision at all tbh.

[steeledl]

Boban doesn't factor in to the decision at all tbh.

How do you know ?

[Nathan89]

How do you know ?

He's a 5th big that won't see the court in the playoffs.

[steeledl]

He's a 5th big that won't see the court in the playoffs.
How do you know?

[glen907]

You'd rather have versatility of the bench than whatever rim protection Tiago would've offered "IF" healthy...we can play a multitude of different lineups with the second unit depending on who we're facing at the time plus it's not like there is a plethora of dominant bigs on most teams second units, most teams go small with their bench that's not even mentioning the play making ability of Diaw and money considerations...Easy choice between Diaw and Splitter teams actually will have to guard Boris

[DeRozan m8]

People are over hyping Anderson lol

[Biernutz]

I always liked Splitter and he was good around the basket and the pick and roll. But Bobo
can play inside and outside to stretch the floor. the tipping point for me was Splitter
getting hurt all the time and Bobo on the floor..........:bobo

[mkurts]

No.

Diaw was bad but Splitter was far worse.

[703 Spurz]

Fuck no. Diaw can shoot and pass. Splitter stinks.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Who are all these 7 ft with skills playing on 2nd units around the NBA? West might give up an inch or two at the most, and he is a strong player that doesn't get pushed around. His numbers were down a little last year, but the previous 2 he ranked top 10 in NBA defensive rating. Players his age often re-energize with a new team for a year or two. Especially with the
Spurs managing his minutes. Plus his mid range jumper will make him effective coming off the bench.

This is right on the money. It had to be incredibly bad in Indy last year for him to opt out of a $12 million contract. I am certain that effort on defense would suffer for anyone in that situation that knows he is just playing out the string in a bad situation.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

I like that. I will miss Splitter's defense though, but one of the guys he played that great defense against during that 2014 finals run is now on our team. Bobo also stretches the floor and is our best passing big. His defense I think will come more in handy in the future, sometimes he's put on Lebron and sometimes Durant. Bobo can also stay healthy.
This. Dirk is too old now and Aldridge isn't a factor anymore. Grizzlies are the only main worry tbh

[TXstbobcat]

Splitter just can't stay healthy. Would have been a mistake for the spurs to trade Diaw instead of Splitter. Let's see how many games Splitter is out for Atlanta due to injury this season.

[daledondale]

Splitter just can't stay healthy. Would have been a mistake for the spurs to trade Diaw instead of Splitter. Let's see how many games Splitter is out for Atlanta due to injury this season.
http://38.media.tumblr.com/316395eeb597ca99c36dd871f4a5143d/tumblr_mtw9ac0yqC1s7mdj8o4_400.gif

[cd021]

Pop doesn't consider Diaw a "big". He used to call the frontline pairing of him and Tim, "medium ball". In other words, Boris is tall, but that doesn't mean he plays like a classical big.

EDIT: to the 2nd part, the Spurs will trot many lineups out there, depending on the opponent or whatever experiments Pop want to try out. The point is that we have the talent to match up despite losing Tiago.

He may not think of him as a traditional big, but he's played more C than SF in his Spurs tenure. PF is the perfect position for him. He isn't a great shooter or particularly mobile, for a 3 but is above average for a four. Really the only big team left is Memphis and they've tried to add versatility in Green and Wright so they can go small. The safer bet is for Anderson, Manu, or Green to get the backup 3 minutes.

[Axegrinder]

Diaw seems to become somewhat satisfied after the title, someone need to slap him in the face to refocus him...
Someone need to slap yo momma in the face n kick yo pops in the sac

[therealtruth]

Splitter just can't stay healthy. Would have been a mistake for the spurs to trade Diaw instead of Splitter. Let's see how many games Splitter is out for Atlanta due to injury this season.

Will be interesting to see how Atlanta handles that. I think one of the reasons Pop was never big on him was his durability. He was injured during his first training camp and that basically relegated him to the bench his first year.

[ElNono]

He may not think of him as a traditional big, but he's played more C than SF in his Spurs tenure. PF is the perfect position for him. He isn't a great shooter or particularly mobile, for a 3 but is above average for a four. Really the only big team left is Memphis and they've tried to add versatility in Green and Wright so they can go small. The safer bet is for Anderson, Manu, or Green to get the backup 3 minutes.

Completely agree with that. He also played a ton of stretch-4 for us, out on the perimeter (in a similar vein to the Bonner role). Boris is the kind of guy that's versatile enough to give you flexibility, much like Manu has played the 3 before when we needed floor spacing. The premise in this thread is what do you do when you need a classical C in the lineup (which is really rare these days, maybe against teams like Memphis or Utah). I don't know that Anderson has earned his minutes out there yet. I'm sure Pop will give him his chance, especially early on, and I hope it works out. But if it doesn't work out, Boris can certainly play the position if we're being forced to go big with Marjanovic.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Disagree that Boris wouldn't be valuable to other contenders, however, not to Atlanta obviously, as they have lots of PFs and needed a true center. Also, it seems the Spurs were willing to work with them on the trade instead of dumping him to another team with cap space for a lot of reasons, including sending Splitter to a good situation where he knows Bud and he'll play rather than burying him in the NBA purgatory that Philly or Sacramento are. It raises their image to FAs when they show they care about their own even when trading them. Morey or Hinkie would have probably looked for the best possible asset they could get without giving a damn about the player being traded, but not Pop and RC.

That is such a great point. That is another example of front office stability allowing for decisions that benefit the organization in the long term instead looking to maximize short term return. Now that the advantage that big market cities had has been minimized (social media, new TV contract and the CBA) the organization is poised to take advantage of long-term good will that has been built up.

[TD 21]

No. Diaw's a rare and valuable package to have in today's game and Aldridge can replace a lot of what Splitter brought.

I also suspect the Spurs and Splitter probably have a wink wink agreement to bring him back in two years, especially if Duncan plays out his contract. Green even tweeted something along the lines of, he wouldn't be surprised to see him back one day. I wouldn't even be surprised if the Hawks are in on it, which might partially explain why they essentially gave up nothing.

Sure, Splitter would pair better next to West defensively, but as has been said, West seemed unlikely, at least in conjunction with Aldridge, at that point and besides, that's too narrow a view to have. West is probably one and done and in the games that really matter, if he and Diaw is a defensive/rebounding problem, Pop can limit or altogether stagger their minutes.

[spursistan]

bump

683491792734543872

because this guy is dime a dozen in the league :lol

[kaji157]

Splitter is gone because he is soft both on the court and off it. Couldnt stay healthy and when he played with an injury he was like a kid in a mans game,

I am glad he is gone, because you expected something of him and rarely delivered, he had one good year and that was it.

Good riddance Vagina!

[Uriel]

Diaw is a Swiss Army knife and an invaluable part of our bench. There's no question about that.

However, that doesn't change the fact that the West-Diaw front court is far from ideal, and that on paper, Splitter-West would be much better defensively.

[KenziE]

Splitter - West pairing probly good for 20 games TOPS because SPLITTER is always injured

[Mel_13]

Diaw is a Swiss Army knife and an invaluable part of our bench. There's no question about that.

However, that doesn't change the fact that the West-Diaw front court is far from ideal, and that on paper, Splitter-West would be much better defensively.

Game isn't played on paper. Bad idea in July. Still a bad idea.

[100%duncan]

Op should just take the L tbh :lol

[cutewizard]

Diawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww rules

:bobo

[spurraider21]

Diaw is a Swiss Army knife and an invaluable part of our bench. There's no question about that.

However, that doesn't change the fact that the West-Diaw front court is far from ideal, and that on paper, Splitter-West would be much better defensively.
dont double down on this one, not worth it

[Chinook]

I'd take 2012-2014 Splitter over current Diaw. But I don't think there's much of an argument at this point that Tiago is at that level. Hopefully, his internship in Atlanta will allow him to get healthy, since even at 31-32, a healthy Tiago is a potential great fit next to LMA for a couple of years. There will be times the Spurs miss Splitter, but there's not much debate that overall, they are better off without him right now.

[ceperez]

I'd take 2012-2014 Splitter over current Diaw. But I don't think there's much of an argument at this point that Tiago is at that level. Hopefully, his internship in Atlanta will allow him to get healthy, since even at 31-32, a healthy Tiago is a potential great fit next to LMA for a couple of years. There will be times the Spurs miss Splitter, but there's not much debate that overall, they are better off without him right now.

I'm sorry, despite how well Splitter may have played 2012-2014, there's no denying that Diaw played better particularly in the championship run. When they won that year, Diaw could have won finals MVP. In fact, if he did win, then it would not have been a surprise.

Folks keep on focusing on Kawhi as being the reason why the Spurs got out of the dark years, but they all too easily forget that when Diaw joined the team that the Spurs started piling up the winning streaks. The man is a genius and gets too easily dismissed because he takes it easy during no-bearing games.

[tholdren]

The tiago is good thread is as equally amusing as the Jimmer Thread.

[K...]

Smh people disrespecting the golden God.


The reason we suddenly played champion level basketball was defense and as much as I love bobo he's not a defensive player. When did bobo last shut down a quality level matchup?

So, yes Diaw is great for this team, but splitter was more important pre LMA.





The whole Diaw> splitter thing requires massive hindsight, among them:

That kawhi would benefit from the increased spacing

That lma would play excellent defense

That splitter would be injured


Ok so number three isn't really hindsight.

[100%duncan]

I'd take 2012-2014 Splitter over current Diaw. But I don't think there's much of an argument at this point that Tiago is at that level. Hopefully, his internship in Atlanta will allow him to get healthy, since even at 31-32, a healthy Tiago is a potential great fit next to LMA for a couple of years. There will be times the Spurs miss Splitter, but there's not much debate that overall, they are better off without him right now.

I'd take 2003 Duncan over the current one.

[Agloco]

Diaw is a Swiss Army knife and an invaluable part of our bench. There's no question about that.

However, that doesn't change the fact that the West-Diaw front court is far from ideal, and that on paper, Splitter-West would be much better defensively.

:lol

OP won't abandon his sinking ship. Like a bawss.

[Uriel]

We sure could've used this guy's rim protection against LeBron the other night.

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/brownsvilleherald.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/db/3db262ea-a5f1-11e3-b16a-001a4bcf6878/5319b6d132837.image.jpg

[houston spurs fan]

We sure could've used this guy's rim protection against LeBron the other night.

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/brownsvilleherald.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/db/3db262ea-a5f1-11e3-b16a-001a4bcf6878/5319b6d132837.image.jpg
Agree, but Diaw has too many offensive skills we need against certain match ups. Boban was lost out there. Tbh, without a healthy, Jesus 40 year old TD out there anchoring the middle in the playoffs we're in serious trouble. Love DWest and his energy out there but he's too small...we were exposed last night with no help interior defense, especially when LMA was on the bench...

[Kawhitstorm]

Again, Shitter stays getting injured so it's pointless (last season happened:rolleyes).

[ceperez]

Agree, but Diaw has too many offensive skills we need against certain match ups. Boban was lost out there. Tbh, without a healthy, Jesus 40 year old TD out there anchoring the middle in the playoffs we're in serious trouble. Love DWest and his energy out there but he's too small...we were exposed last night with no help interior defense, especially when LMA was on the bench...

LMA? He was scored on 3 consecutive possessions by Irving. What interior defense are you talking about?

[Kawhitstorm]

LMA? He was scored on 3 consecutive possessions by Irving. What interior defense are you talking about?

Again, Tony w/ a strained hamstring was running a layup drill against LMA/Lopez in the 2014 series as if it was 2013.:lol LMA is a solid post defender but he is a mediocre rim protector/rebounder for his size.

[Mel_13]

Op should just take the L tbh :lol

[spursistan]

crofl OP..

[EVAY]

no.

[dabom]

You can play better around the player you can depend on. Not around injuries. We made the right choice.

OP had such a bad take here. :lol