View Full Version : Johhny Football is Still #2 at QB
Biernutz
07-27-2015, 11:20 PM
The Browns said that Manziell is still #2 in the depth charts and has not passed
Josh McCown. Manziell has got a lot of run about how he has cleaned up his act
since he got out of rehab. He has been a regular at the Browns facility working out
and doing film time. He moved from downtown party area to a quiet golf course house.
There has been no party pictures since rehab and all the coaches are encouraged about
his training and attitude toward the game....I hope he comes back to play and drag the Browns
out of back with him........
Thread
07-28-2015, 02:35 PM
........of course,,,the Browns will rub his nose in it. In tandem the Browns will cut off their own nose to spite their face. Textbook 101 on how to follow Media's lead.
spurraider21
07-28-2015, 02:36 PM
FkLA
Meanwhile the 'can't miss, obvious #1 overall pick' from that same year is back on the PUP list. I was right about the clown and I'll end up being right about Football too.
spurraider21
07-28-2015, 02:44 PM
Meanwhile the 'can't miss, obvious #1 overall pick' from that same year is back on the PUP list. I was right about the clown and I'll end up being right about Football too.
clowney has been hurt. manziel has been a terrible football player. were u calling a clowney injury specifically? or were u just saying manziel should go #1 because he's some can't miss superstar prospect
Thread
07-28-2015, 02:45 PM
clowney has been hurt. manziel has been a terrible football player. were u calling a clowney injury specifically? or were u just saying manziel should go #1 because he's some can't miss superstar prospect
He's played less than 3 quarters, 21,,,how the fuck would we know?
clowney has been hurt. manziel has been a terrible football player. were u calling a clowney injury specifically? or were u just saying manziel should go #1 because he's some can't miss superstar prospect
The clown is a soft, unmotivated pussy. Football is a young man that has beaten alcoholism and is well on his way to getting his life+career on the right track.
spurraider21
07-28-2015, 02:49 PM
He's played less than 3 quarters, 21,,,how the fuck would we know?
:rolleyes
he played the full game against cincinnati. that's 4 quarters right there
He's played less than 3 quarters, 21,,,how the fuck would we know?
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Thread
07-28-2015, 02:59 PM
:rolleyes
he played the full game against cincinnati. that's 4 quarters right there
Don't be obtuse, 21.
spurraider21
07-28-2015, 03:01 PM
The clown is a soft, unmotivated pussy. Football is a young man that has beaten alcoholism and is well on his way to getting his life+career on the right track.
revisionist faggot
Clowney is a freak but how long can you keep him and Watt together? Both of them will need to get paid eventually. Spending big money on an elite DE is normal but doing it on two seems like it would be a stupid decision. Not to mention the fact that a QB's impact on a team trumps the impact of any other position.
If yall really think that is something that shouldnt be/isnt being taken into consideration then :lol
Clowney is unquestionably the best player in this class. If it were as easy as just taking the best player then there'd also be no question about who Houston is taking...but that's far from being the case right now. I wonder why tbh.
before the draft:
- "clowney is unquestionably the best player in this class"
- "clowney is a freak"
- says he will be an elite DE
now, he's a soft, unmotivated pussy :lmao
spurraider21
07-28-2015, 03:03 PM
Don't be obtuse, 21.
many of us here knew he'd be garbage right away. based on his size and (lack of) skills, it was an uphill battle from the start. then he was taken in the first round and couldn't beat out Brian Hoyer who was struggling in the preseason. then he absolutely faceplanted in his time on an NFL field. then he went to rehab, now he's entrenched as the #2 behind josh mccown who was probably the worst starting QB in the league last year
revisionist faggot
You should also find and post the posts where I call him lazy and unmotivated, faggot. His physical talent was unquestionable but I never bought into his drive.
Raven
07-28-2015, 03:10 PM
anyone that thought this guy was worth a draft pick at all is flat out retarded, period.
spurraider21
07-28-2015, 03:13 PM
anyone that thought this guy was worth a draft pick at all is flat out retarded, period.
if he didnt have the mania behind him i wouldn't despise him as a #3 QB and holder for field goals. could have some creative fakes, and in an emergency situation, i'd rather have a QB with the balls to make a play then some conservative checkdown faggot backup. its why i hate ponder on the raiders :lol... i'd rather have mcgloin be the backup
Thread
07-28-2015, 03:13 PM
many of us here knew he'd be garbage right away. based on his size and (lack of) skills, it was an uphill battle from the start. then he was taken in the first round and couldn't beat out Brian Hoyer who was struggling in the preseason. then he absolutely faceplanted in his time on an NFL field. then he went to rehab, now he's entrenched as the #2 behind josh mccown who was probably the worst starting QB in the league last year
No. The Browns permitted themselves to be steered by Media. They had not the fortitude to stand by their choice & man. Media called ass and everybody came a runnin'...players first to get there. "What do we do, what do we do?" --- "Bust his hole, here's your marker. We'll be there when you call it."...The Browns? They took one look at it and ran like the dickens. Me? They'd a had to drag me away.
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07-28-2015, 03:14 PM
if he didnt have the mania behind him i wouldn't despise him
That's chickenshit, & it's pussy.
spurraider21
07-28-2015, 03:15 PM
No. The Browns permitted themselves to be steered by Media. They had not the fortitude to stand by their choice & man. Media called ass and everybody came a runnin'...players first to get there. "What do we do, what do we do?" --- "Bust his hole, here's your marker. We'll be there when you call it."...The Browns? They took one look at it and ran like the dickens. Me? They'd a had to drag me away.
i know you're not really an NFL guy, and manziel is sorta your pet player and you got a soft spot for him, but ur trying to find ways to blame everybody except him
many of us here knew he'd be garbage right away. based on his size and (lack of) skills, it was an uphill battle from the start. then he was taken in the first round and couldn't beat out Brian Hoyer who was struggling in the preseason. then he absolutely faceplanted in his time on an NFL field. then he went to rehab, now he's entrenched as the #2 behind josh mccown who was probably the worst starting QB in the league last year
Jesus so much Philo BS in this post. First off, he looked better than Hoyer in the preseason. If Hoyer got the nod it's bc Pettine was already leaning heavily towards the guy with experience, not bc Football actually lost out to him. Same thing right now where Pettine is obviously putting a lot of value on experience.
spurraider21
07-28-2015, 03:16 PM
That's chickenshit, & it's pussy.
no. we've seen in all sports that player distractions are a real thing. i feel the same way about tebow, by the way. i'd like him as a backup because he'd be fearless and would go out there and make a legit effort to win a game. but if you have tebow on your squad, it will be a circus
spurraider21
07-28-2015, 03:17 PM
Jesus so much Philo BS in this post. First off, he looked better than Hoyer in the preseason. If Hoyer got the nod it's bc Pettine was already leaning heavily towards the guy with experience, not bc Football actually lost out to him. Same thing right now where Pettine is obviously putting a lot of value on experience.
he wasn't outplaying hoyer, they were pretty equally horrible. the browns wanted to start hoyer all along, but he was so awful in the preseason that there was an opportunity for johnny to make a push, but he sucked in preseason as well and blew his shot
Thread
07-28-2015, 03:20 PM
i know you're not really an NFL guy, and manziel is sorta your pet player and you got a soft spot for him, but ur trying to find ways to blame everybody except him
No, he ain't my "pet player," 21. I know when somebody is gettin' the shaft and when I find it, I side that man, come Hell or high water. And bub, Media found a gem with him, (white, privileged, rich, white, (cocky & white)) and they pounced. It's one thing to pounce, it's a whole other thing to sick the NFLPA and it's rank & file on him. That's what Media did for no other reason than he was white, cocky & rich. A black man being cocky? Media gets away from that quick. Won't even touch. They'd be on the bread lines the next day if they did.
Spur-Addict
07-28-2015, 03:22 PM
No. The Browns permitted themselves to be steered by Media. They had not the fortitude to stand by their choice & man. Media called ass and everybody came a runnin'...players first to get there. "What do we do, what do we do?" --- "Bust his hole, here's your marker. We'll be there when you call it."...The Browns? They took one look at it and ran like the dickens. Me? They'd a had to drag me away.
Most of the organization wanted nothing to do with him from the start, so that's not really plausible. As most of the organization beat the media to the punch before he was even drafted. And once things got out of hand off the field, it only exacerbated their initial feelings.
Thread
07-28-2015, 03:24 PM
no. we've seen in all sports that player distractions are a real thing. i feel the same way about tebow, by the way. i'd like him as a backup because he'd be fearless and would go out there and make a legit effort to win a game. but if you have tebow on your squad, it will be a circus
And same thing on Tebow,,,Media saw an opportunity,,,white man, privileged, Christian, self confident to a zenith that is glorious, Christian, and Christian....No. Only the Jewish faith is permitted and held in esteem. + Media wanted him to accept the H back position, or a backup TE calling. You know, seduce him on it with the idea, then once he accepts, just fuckin' dogpile his ass for selling out. Tebow? Uh, uh.
spurraider21
07-28-2015, 03:25 PM
And same thing on Tebow,,,Media saw an opportunity,,,white man, privileged, Christian, self confident to a zenith that is glorious, Christian, and Christian....No. Only the Jewish faith is permitted and held in esteem. + Media wanted him to accept the H back position, or a backup TE calling. You know, seduce him on it with the idea, then once he accepts, just fuckin' dogpile his ass for selling out. Tebow? Uh, uh.
how many jewish quarterbacks are held in esteem
Thread
07-28-2015, 03:27 PM
how many jewish quarterbacks are held in esteem
Forget it. I'm goin' back to the NBA Forum.
Spur-Addict
07-28-2015, 03:27 PM
And same thing on Tebow,,,Media saw an opportunity,,,white man, privileged, Christian, self confident to a zenith that is glorious, Christian, and Christian....No. Only the Jewish faith is permitted and held in esteem. + Media wanted him to accept the H back position, or a backup TE calling. You know, seduce him on it with the idea, then once he accepts, just fuckin' dogpile his ass for selling out. Tebow? Uh, uh.
Tebow is garbage, and that's all there is to it.
Raven
07-28-2015, 03:31 PM
if he didnt have the mania behind him i wouldn't despise him as a #3 QB and holder for field goals. could have some creative fakes, and in an emergency situation, i'd rather have a QB with the balls to make a play then some conservative checkdown faggot backup. its why i hate ponder on the raiders :lol... i'd rather have mcgloin be the backup
that's why you're a raiders fan. Yes offence.
Thread
07-28-2015, 03:32 PM
Tebow is garbage, and that's all there is to it.
That ain't the fucking point I'm making, Addy. And it mystifies and at the same time enrages me that you guys don't see the wrong in these two instances.
Now, I'm going to the NBA Forum. I'm not debating this with people who are so........ah, no sense in insulting you. See ya's in NBA Forum.
spurraider21
07-28-2015, 03:52 PM
that's why you're a raiders fan. Yes offence.
except that literally makes no sense. my fanhood is independent of all that. fanhood is inherently illogical. the raiders have been shitty for a decade plus and im still a die hard fan.
Raven
07-28-2015, 04:03 PM
except that literally makes no sense. my fanhood is independent of all that. fanhood is inherently illogical. the raiders have been shitty for a decade plus and im still a die hard fan.
the reason why you started being a fan is irrelevant, the reason you are still a fan, is because you have grown to think just like they do.
spurraider21
07-28-2015, 04:05 PM
the reason why you started being a fan is irrelevant, the reason you are still a fan, is because you have grown to think just like they do.
im still a fan because i dont believe in changing fanhoods. it doesn't make sense. i'm not shopping for a successful franchise. you grow an emotional attachment to a team, and that's that.
Raven
07-28-2015, 04:33 PM
im still a fan because i dont believe in changing fanhoods. it doesn't make sense. i'm not shopping for a successful franchise. you grow an emotional attachment to a team, and that's that.
yes, and by allowing that you force yourself into having their mindset and outlook on things, otherwise it would create cognitive dissonance. Like you are forced to believe that keeping a cancer based on past perceived potential, is a low risk high reward move and like i'm forced to believe that paying players is bad for business.
JoeTait75
07-28-2015, 04:34 PM
NM
spurraider21
07-28-2015, 04:37 PM
yes, and by allowing that you force yourself into having their mindset and outlook on things, otherwise it would create cognitive dissonance. Like you are forced to believe that keeping a cancer based on past perceived potential, is a low risk high reward move and like i'm forced to believe that paying players is bad for business.
no. there are a lot of raiders moves that i criticize as they make them. talking about who i'd want as a #3 quarterback is hardly alarming
Clipper Nation
07-28-2015, 04:39 PM
:lol Raiders
Raven
07-28-2015, 04:49 PM
no. there are a lot of raiders moves that i criticize as they make them. talking about who i'd want as a #3 quarterback is hardly alarming
None said you have to be a parrot. Is just a tendency.
he wasn't outplaying hoyer, they were pretty equally horrible. the browns wanted to start hoyer all along, but he was so awful in the preseason that there was an opportunity for johnny to make a push, but he sucked in preseason as well and blew his shot
He outplayed him. He wasn't great (neither was any other rookie QB) but he wasn't as bad as Hoyer. At the end of the day Pettine's conservativeness played a bigger role in the decision than either player's performance.
spurraider21
07-28-2015, 05:09 PM
30-59 (50.8%) passing for 296 yards (5.01 yards per attempt, 9.87 yards per completion) and 2 TD's during the preseason. he did nothing to get the starting gig when the opportunity was there.
spurraider21
07-28-2015, 05:12 PM
for hoyer... 24-44 (54.5%), 261 yards (5.9 yards per attempt, 10.9 yards per completion) with 1 TD and 1 pick
plus hoyer closed with a good (relative) performance. if manziel showed competence, he would have had the job. but he was doing very poorly in practices (reports of them having to call plays dead because he got them wrong, etc) and didn't shine in games either
You didn't include Football's rushing yards. Regardless, like I said the decision had little to do with their actual play and more to do with Pettine putting so much value on experience. Not to mention the fact Football was a 21 year old rookie with only a couple weeks of training camp under his belt. But yeah let's act like that's as good as it'll get for him, you're really being objective and giving him a fair shake there. :lol
spurraider21
07-29-2015, 12:25 AM
You didn't include Football's rushing yards. Regardless, like I said the decision had little to do with their actual play and more to do with Pettine putting so much value on experience. Not to mention the fact Football was a 21 year old rookie with only a couple weeks of training camp under his belt. But yeah let's act like that's as good as it'll get for him, you're really being objective and giving him a fair shake there. :lol
if manziel performed well in preseason or earned confidence in practice, he would have been the starter. the raiders were intent on starting schaub the whole way, but he (like hoyer) performed miserably in the preseason, and Carr played very well in the preseason to earn a starting gig.
The Jags were intent on starting Chad Henne, but he sucked in the preseason and Bortles lit the world on fire, and he earned his starting gig.
For the Vikings gig, Matt Cassell actually had a pretty sharp preseason, so the Vikes didn't feel a need to throw in the rookie... Teddy would have had to put on a legendary preseason to win that job.
Teams always by default want to start the veteran and let the rookie learn... but if the veteran struggles, the rookie always has a chance to win. the simple story is that manziel wasn't good enough to earn the confidence over Hoyer who was stinking it up himself
lol STFU faggot
Your Raiders are a joke and so are the Jags, the Browns OTOH actually had a half decent squad. Letting a rookie play and win 2-3 games was an easier call for those two teams than for Cleveland. But sure keep philo-ing it up to fit your narrative.
Also tell us some more about how he proved how he's not going to pan out after a handful of quarters and at the ripe age of 22. That seems really fair and objective. :tu
spurraider21
07-29-2015, 01:29 AM
lol STFU faggot
Your Raiders are a joke and so are the Jags, the Browns OTOH actually had a half decent squad. Letting a rookie play and win 2-3 games was an easier call for those two teams than for Cleveland. But sure keep philo-ing it up to fit your narrative.
:lol you're deflecting. the 3 teams all had comparable quarterback situations. shitty veteran + unproven rookie. the browns for the past decade have been just as pathetic as the raiders and jaguars
Also tell us some more about how he proved how he's not going to pan out after a handful of quarters and at the ripe age of 22. That seems really fair and objective. :tu
not sure where i specifically said that in this thread. i thought he was a shitty prospect to begin with and he's done absolutely nothing to change my opinion. if anything, he's justified it. his off the field bullshit is on another level, which we've barely discussed
benefactor
07-29-2015, 06:26 AM
Clowney will be fine. Him being on PUP is just a technicality. Hell...they gave Akeem Dent a new contract and he has started camp on PUP as well.
O'Brien on Clowney:
"He’s put a lot of time in. Will he be able to be out there right away when we put the pads on on August 3rd for our first full padded practice? No, he won’t be out there right away for that. I think you’ll see him eventually later in training camp and try to ramp him up for the season."
:lol you're deflecting. the 3 teams all had comparable quarterback situations. shitty veteran + unproven rookie. the browns for the past decade have been just as pathetic as the raiders and jaguars
Jesus you have to be the worst poster to have a discussion with. Deflecting how? Even if the QB situations were the same that doesn't mean team expectations were. The Raiders and Jags had lower expectations so using that whole year to develop their QBs made more sense.
not sure where i specifically said that in this thread. i thought he was a shitty prospect to begin with and he's done absolutely nothing to change my opinion. if anything, he's justified it. his off the field bullshit is on another level, which we've barely discussed
A handful of quarters and you're making comments about how you and a bunch of others knew he was going to be terrible. As if he's reached his ceiling at 22. But keep Philo-ing to try to paint it out like you're being objective about the whole thing. :lol
spurraider21
07-29-2015, 01:36 PM
Jesus you have to be the worst poster to have a discussion with. Deflecting how? Even if the QB situations were the same that doesn't mean team expectations were. The Raiders and Jags had lower expectations so using that whole year to develop their QBs made more sense.
you're being intellectually dishonest with this. the browns were coming off a 4-12 season, their expectations were just as shitty, especially when josh gordon was out for the year. you're deflecting because we are discussing 3 bad teams that had 3 similar qb situations and you are trying to change the topic with "your raiders are a joke and so are the jags." that's not the topic here, hence the deflection
A handful of quarters and you're making comments about how you and a bunch of others knew he was going to be terrible. As if he's reached his ceiling at 22. But keep Philo-ing to try to paint it out like you're being objective about the whole thing. :lol
i never said he's reached his ceiling. he was a poor prospect to begin with, as many people here pointed out. all i'm saying is that he's done absolutely nothing to change that perception.
last year this time he was a poor rookie prospect. as of now, he's a poor 2nd year prospect. maybe he'll change the way he approaches the game on and off the field and make something of himself, who knows. but he hasn't given anybody a reason to believe that
Nah, you're the one being dishonest. Most people, including posters here, thought Cleveland had a half decent squad. Obviously that was confirmed when they managed to be in playoff contention despite below average QB play from Hoyer.
Noone had any expectations for Oakland and Jacksonville and they went on to be just as shitty as we thought they would be.
i never said he's reached his ceiling. he was a poor prospect to begin with, as many people here pointed out. all i'm saying is that he's done absolutely nothing to change that perception.
last year this time he was a poor rookie prospect. as of now, he's a poor 2nd year prospect. maybe he'll change the way he approaches the game on and off the field and make something of himself, who knows. but he hasn't given anybody a reason to believe that
He's not a finished product. When you say 'I knew he was going to be terrible' it implies he is. When you use the fact that he can't'beat out' Hoyer and McCown + a couple quarters of play as a way to justify your conclusion of him it implies it that much more.
spurraider21
07-29-2015, 01:56 PM
Nah, you're the one being dishonest. Most people, including posters here, thought Cleveland had a half decent squad. Obviously that was confirmed when they managed to be in playoff contention despite below average QB play from Hoyer.
Noone had any expectations for Oakland and Jacksonville and they went on to be just as shitty as we thought they would be.
this is all hindsight talking. pettine specifically said during the offseason that it was a competition and he never ruled johnny out. he just couldn't win the job over a shitty veteran, unlike carr and bortles beating out shaub and henne
spurraider21
07-29-2015, 01:58 PM
He's not a finished product. When you say 'I knew he was going to be terrible' it implies he is. When you use the fact that he can't'beat out' Hoyer and McCown + a couple quarters of play as a way to justify your conclusion of him it implies it that much more.
i still dont say he's a finished product. i knew he was a terrible prospect =/= i knew he was going to be terrible. its probability. there are flawed prospects who end up flourishing, and some "cant miss prospects" who end up struggling. manziel was a very flawed prospect and the year 1 results verified his skeptics.
keep calling it "couple of quarters." he played a full game against cincinnati. and his rookie year also includes the fact that he was struggling to grasp the playbook, etc. not just his performances in those games. since the season, he's had teammates say his approach to the game was a joke and he wasn't showing the commitment in practice, etc.
No it isn't in hindsight and for the fifth time his inability to 'beat out' Hoyer had little to do with his preseason performance and more to do with experience.
You truly are the worst poster to have a discussion with. We can revisit this when he sees significant action and we have more than a :cry whole game vs Cincy :cry to go off of. Or whenever it becomes clear he won't be QB1 for an NFL team.
spurraider21
07-29-2015, 02:26 PM
No it isn't in hindsight and for the fifth time his inability to 'beat out' Hoyer had little to do with his preseason performance and more to do with experience.
lol... you keep clinging to this. if manziel played as well as bortles or carr did in the preseason, he'd have been the starter. they had a competition. sure, the brass preferred Hoyer due to experience... just like how the raiders preferred schaub and the jaguars preferred Henne. if carr/bortles played just as badly as schaub/henne, then i'm sure the veterans would have been starters for those teams too.
You truly are the worst poster to have a discussion with. We can revisit this when he sees significant action and we have more than a :cry whole game vs Cincy :cry to go off of. Or whenever it becomes clear he won't be QB1 for an NFL team.
he played more than that. you keep saying "a couple of quarters" even though you know its wrong. i'm not saying he's done, or that he is doomed to failure. i'm saying he was a poor prospect to begin with, and nothing has changed in that regard.
Avante
07-29-2015, 02:33 PM
I took a wait and see approach at first. But it's easy to see Manziel was a wasted draft pick, he simply doesn't have...."it'...at the pro level.
So talking about him, why?
Just to highlight how frustrating it is to have a discussion with you--knowing how you are I made it a point to use 'handful' instead of 'couple'. I slip up and use 'couple' one time and now you're trying to run with it. You know even though at the end of the day 8 quarters (or whatever amount he played) isn't really that much more experience than 3-4 quarters. :lol
Darth_Pelican
07-29-2015, 02:42 PM
His quickness in college was what made him successful. That advantage doesn't exist nearly as much in the fast NFL. If he had an elite passing arm, then maybe he could overcome, but he doesn't. Combine that with the fact that he seems like a terrible human being with no work ethic, and he's destined to be a bust. I mean, come on, do you really honestly see him spending time studying film, learning playbooks, and dedicating himself both physically and mentally to be a starting NFL QB?
His quickness in college was what made him successful. That advantage doesn't exist nearly as much in the fast NFL. If he had an elite passing arm, then maybe he could overcome, but he doesn't. Combine that with the fact that he seems like a terrible human being with no work ethic, and he's destined to be a bust. I mean, come on, do you really honestly see him spending time studying film, learning playbooks, and dedicating himself both physically and mentally to be a starting NFL QB?
He was a cocky, spoiled, young kid that needed to get his shit together. So far he's beaten alcoholism and from all reports is being a pro. If he truly wants to be an NFL QB he'll keep it up, if not he'll revert back to his old ways.
spurraider21
07-29-2015, 03:14 PM
Just to highlight how frustrating it is to have a discussion with you--knowing how you are I made it a point to use 'handful' instead of 'couple'. I slip up and use 'couple' one time and now you're trying to run with it. You know even though at the end of the day 8 quarters (or whatever amount he played) isn't really that much more experience than 3-4 quarters. :lol
he didnt play much, and that's fine. when he did play, whether it be preseason or limited time in the reg season, it was largely a disaster, particularly in the regular season. and the mistakes he made were all predictable based on what was said about him during the offseason.
his career isn't "done." i'm just saying, he's done nothing that would cause his skeptics to change their minds about him yet. you dont have to be a year 1 starter to be great... but he can't play in the NFL the way he played in college. that style of play doesn't translate.
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