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View Full Version : This Is What Will Happen if Congress Blows Up the Iran Nuclear Deal



FuzzyLumpkins
07-31-2015, 08:55 PM
The security consequences — both nuclear and conventional, for the United States and the world — of whether the deal lives or dies are the most obvious and have been the subject of robust debate. And critics have reasonably flagged some concerns. Some leading nuclear security experts including Olli Heinonen, former deputy director-general of the International Atomic Energy Agency, and former American weapons inspector David Albright have pointed out the deal’s flaws: a prolonged waiting period before inspectors can enter suspicious sites and the failure to compel full transparency on past nuclear activity. It is also true that an end to sanctions will fill Iranian coffers with more than $100 billion, some of which will likely be used for a variety of nefarious purposes, including funding terrorism and regional proxy wars.

With this deal having been inked and signed, however, it’s hard to see how congressional defeat doesn’t make the threats posed by the deal’s flaws even more imminent than they are now. In his Senate testimony on July 23, Kerry claimed it was a choice between “this deal or war” — a juxtaposition for which he was accused of hyperbole. Kerry dismissed the prospect that another, stronger deal could theoretically have been struck as “some sort of unicorn arrangement involving Iran’s complete capitulation. That’s a fantasy, plain and simple.”

Iran’s leaders, for their part, have already made clear that the failure of a deal will redouble their commitment to their nuclear ambitions. As Kerry noted in his testimony, the pace of enrichment will quicken, and new reactors and centrifuges will be built. Instead of an admittedly overlong 24-day waiting period for inspections, there will be no inspections at all. In fact, inspections would be pointless because there will be no doubt of what Iran is doing and no way to stop them short of military action, a course that many experts say simply won’t work. Transparency on the past would also be a non-starter without the deal.

In terms of the cash bonanza Iran will enjoy once sanctions are lifted, at this point that check is headed toward the mail. The European Union has already begun the process of suspending its sanctions on Iran, and the U.N. Security Council likewise wasted no time in passing a resolution for sanctions relief, though it delayed implementation for 90 days. French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius arrived in Tehran on Wednesday, warming the seats for French businesspeople and investors. U.S. officials have made clear that in the face of congressional rejection of the deal, the international will for tough sanctions will evaporate. While congressional naysayers now trumpet the success of sanctions and demand that they remain in place, experts uniformly affirm that their effectiveness depends on wide multilateral support. The United States has had its own unilateral sanctions in place since 1979 with little discernible impact, but Iran only began to feel the bite once the United States mustered international compliance with sanctions enforced through American banking institutions, and then secured increasingly potent Security Council mandates to create bans on oil, gas, conventional weapons, and other areas that were effective around the world. That multilateral support, in turn, could be summoned only because of Iran’s evasiveness and recalcitrance — qualities in full display during the tenure of former Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. The minute Iran began to shift gears toward a more open and accommodating posture after the 2013 election, those international sanctions began living on borrowed time.

mas @ http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/07/30/congress-iran-nuclear-deal-obama-veto-kerry-mccain/

Clipper Nation
07-31-2015, 09:00 PM
And now, a bunch of ignored posts (that Fuzzy will still read), because he can't handle dissenting views.

TeyshaBlue
07-31-2015, 09:38 PM
I'm fairly conflicted...on one hand we get access where before we none...on the other hand, we have about zero control of that access. Seems almost pointless.

FuzzyLumpkins
07-31-2015, 10:11 PM
I'm fairly conflicted...on one hand we get access where before we none...on the other hand, we have about zero control of that access. Seems almost pointless.

The families of the founding ayatollahs are the political elite in Iran outside of the institutional usual suspects. There is dissension with ayatollah groups keeping others away from universities for speeches and such. Armed gangs guarding campuses. They fear another Green Revolution which is not surprising considering the country's past.

As for the effectiveness it comes down to whether or not you believe they can still detect radioisotopes after 70 days of cleanup efforts. I would imagine destroying and evacuating a building would be a red flag. I don't know how to go cleaning that type of thing up.

Honestly, as long as Israel has a nuke I don't really give a shit beyond the idea of rogue proliferation. I just don't see a nationstate using one for anything other than being hit first. I think Khamenei is right on in wanting Israel to disarm their nukes and stop lying.

Th'Pusher
08-01-2015, 07:53 AM
Ex-Mossad Chief Supports Iran Nuclear Deal (http://www.npr.org/2015/07/31/427990359/ex-mossad-chief-supports-iran-nuclear-deal)

Winehole23
08-01-2015, 09:39 AM
http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2015/us-iran-nuclear-deal-0724

boutons_deux
08-01-2015, 09:51 AM
I'm fairly conflicted...on one hand we get access where before we none...on the other hand, we have about zero control of that access. Seems almost pointless.

yep, nothing like this is very clear, since neither side is trustworthy but it's worth a try.

The alternative is Repugs expanding their destruction of the M/E with more war.

If the deal fails, then sanctions go back on, but non-USA countries pocketing $10Bs from new business with Iran may not play USA's sanctions game.

Anyway, who is USA anyway the country to decide who gets nukes? Israel, Pakistan, India and who else weren't blocked or punished for building nukes.

"Promises made by U.S. leaders cannot be trusted, former Soviet president Mikhail Gorbachev said in an interview with The Daily Telegraph published on Wednesday.

MOSCOW, May 7 (RIA Novosti) - Promises made by U.S. leaders cannot be trusted, former Soviet president Mikhail Gorbachev said in an interview with The Daily Telegraph published on Wednesday.

"The Americans promised that NATO wouldn't move beyond the boundaries of Germany after the Cold War, but now half of central and eastern Europe are members, so what happened to their promises? It shows they cannot be trusted," he said in Paris.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20080507/106798164.html#ixzz3hZhsnfSU"

I think there were also broken USA promises about not placing missiles in eastern Europe.

HarryLoLa
08-03-2015, 01:41 AM
This vote was lost in April 2015. Lots of wind, but votes already there.

Winehole23
08-03-2015, 11:13 AM
awfully hard to get the supermajority to override, but you could be right.

m>s
08-03-2015, 11:31 AM
The families of the founding ayatollahs are the political elite in Iran outside of the institutional usual suspects. There is dissension with ayatollah groups keeping others away from universities for speeches and such. Armed gangs guarding campuses. They fear another Green Revolution which is not surprising considering the country's past.

As for the effectiveness it comes down to whether or not you believe they can still detect radioisotopes after 70 days of cleanup efforts. I would imagine destroying and evacuating a building would be a red flag. I don't know how to go cleaning that type of thing up.

Honestly, as long as Israel has a nuke I don't really give a shit beyond the idea of rogue proliferation. I just don't see a nationstate using one for anything other than being hit first. I think Khamenei is right on in wanting Israel to disarm their nukes and stop lying.the green revolution had our fingerprints all over it, of course they'd defend against it IMHO

boutons_deux
08-03-2015, 11:36 AM
Democrats see ‘firewall’ holding to preserve Iran deal

U.S. backers of the Iran nuclear deal are increasingly confident of enough Democratic support to ensure it survives review by Congress, despite fierce opposition by majority Republicans and a massive lobbying drive.By the time the House of Representatives recessed for the summer last week, no senior Democrat in the chamber had come out formally against the agreement and several central figures, including Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, were strongly in favor.

Pelosi said she was confident that if, as expected, Republicans pass a “resolution of disapproval” to try to sink the deal, a promised veto of that measure by President Barack Obama would be sustained.

At least 44 Democrats in the House and 13 Democrats in the Senate would have to defy Obama and join Republicans in opposing the deal to get the two-thirds majorities in both chambers needed to override a veto.

“More and more of them (House Democrats) have confirmed to me that they will be there to sustain the veto,” Pelosi told reporters

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/08/democrats-see-firewall-holding-to-preserve-iran-deal/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29

boutons_deux
08-03-2015, 03:36 PM
John Kerry Wins Gulf States’ Cautious Support for Iran Deal

DOHA, Qatar — Persian Gulf monarchies issued a cautious endorsement on Monday of the accord Secretary of State John Kerry (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/k/john_kerry/index.html?inline=nyt-per) negotiated last month to constrain Iran’s nuclear program (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/15/world/middleeast/iran-nuclear-deal-is-reached-after-long-negotiations.html).

“This was the best option among other options,” said Khalid al-Attiyah, the foreign minister of Qatar, who hosted a meeting of the Gulf Cooperation Council that Mr. Kerry attended.

In a news conference with Mr. Kerry, Mr. Attiyah said that the secretary of state had repeated his assurance that the United States would stop Iran (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/iran/index.html?inline=nyt-geo) from acquiring a nuclear weapon if Tehran failed to adhere to the accord.

“We are confident that what they undertook makes this region safer and more stable,” he added.

Mr. Kerry and his counterparts from the Persian Gulf states also agreed on ways to expedite the military support and training efforts that President Obama promised at a May meeting at Camp David with senior gulf state officials.



http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/08/04/world/middleeast/gulf-states-cautiously-support-iran-nuclear-deal.html

TheSanityAnnex
08-06-2015, 02:43 PM
:lol Iran already scrambling to clean up site before inspections

boutons_deux
08-06-2015, 02:45 PM
:lol Iran already scrambling to clean up site before inspections

Mission Accomplished

boutons_deux
08-06-2015, 08:46 PM
AIPAC got NY Jew Senator Schumer to go with Bibi and against the Iran deal.

Infinite_limit
08-06-2015, 08:47 PM
This shit is still going on? Sign and move on.