Zimbabwe seeks Lion Poachers Extradition

[FuzzyLumpkins]

"We want him tried in Zimbabwe because he violated our laws," Oppah Muchinguri, Zimbabwe's environment minister, said in a news conference Friday. Palmer's use of a crossbow and arrow to hunt Cecil violated Zimbabwe hunting regulations, according to reports.

Zimbabwe officials are appealing to U.S. authorities for help and have begun the extradition process, Muchinguri said.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/07/31/dentist-cecil-lion-zimbabwe/30927415/

[TheSanityAnnex]

Hey Zimbabwe if you want him extradited why don't you charge him with a crime first?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Apparently we have an extradition treaty with them.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Apparently Zimbabwe is having trouble charging him with an actual crime

[boutons_deux]

Apparently Zimbabwe is having trouble charging him with an actual crime

so he's fully justified in killing the lion and skates free (you hope)

[TheSanityAnnex]

so he's fully justified in killing the lion and skates free (you hope)do you ever think before hitting reply? What would lead you to think I'd want him to skate free, because I like guns? You are so fucking stupid sometimes.
I've said numerous times he's an asshole for killing the lion. If you'd actually take the time to read people's posts instead of constantly spamming you'd know this. The two guides are fucked but if dentist said he was told it was all legal according to guides going to be really tough to charge dentist with a crime, which is why Zimbabwe hasn't charged him yet.

[ChumpDumper]

Apparently Zimbabwe is having trouble charging him with an actual crimeI think charges will be fairly simple to come up with, but I also think if the US finds some way to prosecute him, he won't be extradited.

[ChumpDumper]

do you ever think before hitting reply? What would lead you to think I'd want him to skate free, because I like guns? You are so fucking stupid sometimes.
I've said numerous times he's an asshole for killing the lion. If you'd actually take the time to read people's posts instead of constantly spamming you'd know this. The two guides are fucked but if dentist said he was told it was all legal according to guides going to be really tough to charge dentist with a crime, which is why Zimbabwe hasn't charged him yet.So if someone told you murder is legal you could get away with it?

What a brilliant legal strategy!

[TheSanityAnnex]

So if someone told you murder is legal you could get away with it?

What a brilliant legal strategy!
Smh false fucking equivalence

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lol TheStupidityAnnex

[ChumpDumper]

Smh false fucking equivalenceIt could be anything.

Pick a different offense if the murder example upsets you so.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Killing protected/owned animals is called poaching. It's not hard to come up with a crime.

It's funny that name is already taken.

[Clipper Nation]

:lol TheStupidityAnnex
Not sure why you're laughing. You're the dumb libcuck who put him on ignore because he hurt your fee-fees, but still lacks the self-control to not read every single one of his posts.

[boutons_deux]

I think charges will be fairly simple to come up with, but I also think if the US finds some way to prosecute him, he won't be extradited.

This dentist appears to be quite wealthy, so he'll hire, or some gun-fellatin/huntin org or fund raiser will hire, some very expensive legal eagle to kill the extradition or delay it FOR YEARS. Tie it up in the courts. Now, if ZW could have Interpol put out a arrest warrant, then his travelin days would be over. He'd be stuck killin USA wildlife.

btw, NPR has South African animal defense/anti-poaching guy on, he's been in that business for nearly 20 years. He said the big game hunting breaks down into two main sectors:"

1. the free roaming sector where the business proposal is 2 - 4 weeks riding around in the bush looking for a free roaming animal to kill. Guarantee is only about 60% success. People often don't have time or money for 2+ weeks, so ....

2. the "caged" shoot where you can pick out your victim on Internet, show up, and in few days, with 99% success rate, kill your animal. the animal is enclosed sometimes into increasingly smaller areas, and sometimes the final shoot is of a tightly penned animal.

this isn't the interview I heard, but has some numbers

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/07/31/428079500/death-of-beloved-lion-heats-up-criticism-of-big-game-hunting

[m>s]

Lmao . N!gger countries aren't real countries tbh.

[ddjeffries]

Question. We're the tour guides charged?

[TheSanityAnnex]

Killing protected/owned animals is called poaching. It's not hard to come up with a crime.

It's funny that name is already taken.
No shit, that's why the two guides were already charged. If the dentist had no idea what he was doing was illegal because the guides misled him it's going to be really tough to charge him with a crime. Why do you think Zimbabwe hadn't charged him with a crime yet?

[ddjeffries]

I see. It'll be difficult to prove he did it on purpose, since he had guides and they've already been charged. He obviously regrets what happened as he apologized for it. Sucks that the lion died but I find it difficult to hold the dentist accountable if he genuinely didn't know. I mean that's why he spent $55k on the hunt.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Ignorance to the law is not an excuse. Never has been and absolving him because he paid is repugnant. Good job!

[TheSanityAnnex]

Ignorance to the law is not an excuse. Never has been and absolving him because he paid is repugnant. Good job!
Why have the guides been charged and not the dentist?

[Splits]

I read a report that the environment minister say that landowner didn't even have 1 quota for a lion this year but they did have a leopard permit. That they were trying to lure a leopard off the reserve but took the lion instead because it is easy for the client to say he shot it elsewhere. If that's true, unless this dickless coward can't tell the difference between the two, he most certainly violated the law.

[Splits]

Why have the guides been charged and not the dentist?

Are you an expert on how the Zimbabwe legal system functions when charging non-citizen poachers who have fled the country? Or statute of limitations on charging a crime in Zimbabwe? You realize it's only been 5 days since they found out what happened? Do you have inside sources informing you that he has not been charged, or won't be?

[Blake]

Why have the guides been charged and not the dentist?

Rofl do you really think the dentist won't be charged? Either here or there, he'll be charged somehow.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Are you an expert on how the Zimbabwe legal system functions when charging non-citizen poachers who have fled the country? Or statute of limitations on charging a crime in Zimbabwe? You realize it's only been 5 days since they found out what happened? Do you have inside sources informing you that he has not been charged, or won't be?
Oh look the faggot that failed by trying to argue conservation stats with 10+ year old data decided to chime in. He has not been charged, you don't need an inside source to figure that out.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Rofl do you really think the dentist won't be charged? Either here or there, he'll be charged somehow.
Ok

[Blake]

Honestly, I'm not sure authorities have a strong case, but public outcry being what it is, I think they'll find something to get him on.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Honestly, I'm not sure authorities have a strong case, but public outcry being what it is, I think they'll find something to get him on.
I don't think they do either which is why I think we haven't heard anything on any charges. They are probably trying real hard right now to get him on something just to satisfy the outragers.

[Ginobilly]

The real question is were the guides real guides? Were they employed by the park?

[SupremeGuy]

Hey Zimbabwe if you want him extradited why don't you charge him with a crime first?For real.

[boutons_deux]

Man who studied Cecil the lion for 9 years talks impact


http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/40/02/15/8397649/7/920x920.jpg

JOHANNESBURG (AP) — When Cecil the lion's carcass was finally found after he was lured out of a Zimbabwe wildlife reserve to be killed by an American hunter, it was a headless, skinless skeleton the vultures had been picking at for about a week.



Conservationists decided the most natural thing was to leave the bones where they were for hyenas to finish off, said Brent Stapelkamp, a lion researcher and part of a team that had tracked and studied Cecil for nine years.
Stapelkamp darted Cecil and put his last GPS collar on in October. He was probably the last person to get up close before Minnesota dentist Walter Palmer used a bow and a gun to kill the now-famous lion with the bushy black mane, its head and skin eventually cut off as trophies. Stapelkamp had first alerted authorities that something might be wrong after Cecil's GPS collar stopped sending a signal.

http://content-img.newsinc.com/jpg/1391/29462381/23995932.jpg?t=1438282740

The killing of the big cat in early July has unleashed global outrage, sending Palmer into hiding back home in suburban Minneapolis, leading to the arrest of the local hunter he employed, and prompting Zimbabwe's environment minister to say the southern African country would seek Palmer's extradition to face charges.

Stapelkamp shares the anger, not just because of the demise of Cecil. Also because, he said, it's not the first time a lion has been killed illegally around Hwange National Park in northwestern Zimbabwe, a reserve known for its rich wildlife. About a dozen lions in the region were killed illegally in recent years, Stapelkamp said, and no one was caught.

"I think this was just the final straw," Stapelkamp told The Associated Press in a phone interview from the Hwange reserve. "Everyone locally just thought, no ways, we're not letting anyone get away with this anymore."

Cecil had an intriguing story, making him a celebrity in Hwange. He arrived as a kind of lion refugee, alone and wandering after being displaced from another territory. Cecil befriended another male lion, Jericho, and together they grew and watched over two prides, one with three lionesses and seven cubs and another with three lionesses.

The satellite collar on Jericho has been sending normal signals, indicating the lion is alive and moving around, Stapelkamp said.

But Cecil's killing will have an impact on the area, explained Stapelkamp, a field researcher for an Oxford University study on lions.

Jericho may not be able to hold their territory alone and could be chased away by rival lions. Unprotected, the lionesses and cubs would then be under threat and also move away or be killed. Safari operators who invested millions of dollars in the area would lose one of their biggest attractions for tourists.

"They're burning fire breaks. They're grading roads. They're pumping water," Stapelkamp said. "They're spending a lot of money in the management of lions and then someone just draws it across the railway lines having not paid a penny in its management and shoots it and runs away with its skin. It's unacceptable."



Zimbabwe's National Parks and Wildlife Authority said Saturday it has suspended the hunting of lions, leopards and elephants outside of Hwange National Park, and that bow and arrow hunts have also been suspended unless they are approved by the authority's director.

The authority also said it is investigating the killing of another lion in April that may have been illegal.

Stapelkamp, unsure of the details of Cecil's killing, described the usual tactics of hunters to draw an animal onto private land and out of the park where it is protected. The two areas are separated by a railway line. Hunters shoot a zebra or giraffe and hang it on a tree; the main bait. They then drag the intestines of that animal, "something that really smells," Stapelkamp said, up and down the park boundary behind a vehicle. Sometimes they'll even play the sounds of a dying buffalo over a loudspeaker to attract a lion.

The lion "comes across that scent trail and it leads him straight to this bait," Stapelkamp said. "It rushes in for a free meal and they're waiting ... and they kill him like that."

Even on private land, this hunt was still illegal, Stapelkamp said, because no hunting quotas for lions were issued in the region this year. Legal hunts do happen, he said, but only after authorities consult with ecologists and decide that it won't adversely affect the area.

This didn't happen with Cecil, Stapelkamp said, and he doesn't believe Palmer's story that he trusted his professional guide to ensure a legal hunt.

"He's a well-educated man, he's got a lot of resources," Stapelkamp said. "You could do your homework. Due diligence. You would know that you're hunting in a controversial area. You've got a GPS you could have in your pocket and you have a look at the map, and you say, 'listen, friend, I think we're in the wrong area.' There's no excuse."

Palmer came "with the intention of getting the biggest lion that he could and getting out. And he got caught," Stapelkamp said.

http://m.sfgate.com/news/world/article/Man-who-studied-Cecil-the-lion-for-9-years-talks-6419166.php

[Splits]

Oh look the faggot that failed by trying to argue conservation stats with 10+ year old data decided to chime in. He has not been charged, you don't need an inside source to figure that out.


I don't think they do either which is why I think we haven't heard anything on any charges. They are probably trying real hard right now to get him on something just to satisfy the outragers.


Oh look the faggot that failed by trying to argue conservation stats with 10+ year old data decided to chime in. He has not been charged, you don't need an inside source to figure that out.

Your brain apparently can't process much better than that of an early teenager. I don't know why anyone, myself included, tries to reason or debate you. You're a fucking moron who ignores facts and just makes shit up.

Here, let me fucking help you, idiot:

http://www.zimparks.org/index.php/mc/214-press-statement-on-the-illegal-hunt-of-a-collared-lion-at-antoinette-farm-in-gwayi-conservancy-hwange-district-on-1-july-2015-by-bushman-safaris-professional-hunter-theo-bronkhorst


Mr Honest Trymore Ndlovu owner of Antoinette farm was issued with a hunting quota for 2015 which excluded lions. Antoinette Farm is located in Gwayi River Conservancy in the Hwange Rural District and is adjacent to Hwange National Park. The professional hunter is alleged to have connived with the Antoinette land owner to kill the lion. The incident came to the attention of the Authority on the 7th of July 2015 through an informer. This was followed by an investigation which clearly demonstrated that the illegal killing was deliberate. Firstly the land owner was not allocated a lion on his hunting quota for 2015. Secondly, the use of a bow and an arrow was meant to conceal the illegal hunt by using a means that would not alert the rangers on patrol.

Execution of the illegal hunt violated a number of provisions of the Parks and Wildlife Act.


The professional hunter violated Section 66 of the Act which regulates the manner in which trophy hunts are conducted.
Both the client, Dr Palmer and the professional hunter violated Section 123 of the Act which controls the use of bow and arrow for hunting.
The client also violated the Act through financing an illegal hunt.
The land owner violated Section 59 of the Act which controls hunting on private land in that he allowed a hunt to be conduct without quota and necessary permit.


From investigations carried out so far it shows that the whole poaching event was properly orchestrated and well financed to make sure that it succeeds. The professional hunter, client and land owner were therefore all engaged in poaching of the lion.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Your brain apparently can't process much better than that of an early teenager. I don't know why anyone, myself included, tries to reason or debate you. You're a fucking moron who ignores facts and just makes shit up.

Here, let me fucking help you, idiot:

http://www.zimparks.org/index.php/mc/214-press-statement-on-the-illegal-hunt-of-a-collared-lion-at-antoinette-farm-in-gwayi-conservancy-hwange-district-on-1-july-2015-by-bushman-safaris-professional-hunter-theo-bronkhorst



Ignores facts and makes shit up describes your debate tactics concerning trophy hunting and conservation. Unless you are just really stupid and didn't realize all of the data you were arguing for was from 2004. Which one was it?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Your brain apparently can't process much better than that of an early teenager. I don't know why anyone, myself included, tries to reason or debate you. You're a fucking moron who ignores facts and just makes shit up.

Here, let me fucking help you, idiot:

http://www.zimparks.org/index.php/mc/214-press-statement-on-the-illegal-hunt-of-a-collared-lion-at-antoinette-farm-in-gwayi-conservancy-hwange-district-on-1-july-2015-by-bushman-safaris-professional-hunter-theo-bronkhorst

:lol

[vy65]

It's a fucking lion. Who cares?

[Th'Pusher]

It's a fucking lion. Who cares?
A shit ton of people, hence the public outcry.

[vy65]

That shit ton of people needs something better to do

[Th'Pusher]

That shit ton of people needs something better to do
What the fuck do you care? Ignore it.

The he reality is you just wanted to come in here and look hard because you don't give a fuck about lions.

Real tough.

[vy65]

The reality is I said people shouldn't care. Your attempt to flip it back on me fails, pussy.

People need better things to focus on than a li:loln

[Th'Pusher]

The reality is I said people shouldn't care. Your attempt to flip it back on me fails, pussy.

People need better things to focus on than a li:loln
What the fuck do you care what people focus on?

[Wild Cobra]

Question. We're the tour guides charged?

I read someplace that the guide and farmer were arrested. The guide faces as much as 15 years. As a licensed guide, it was his responsibility for the baiting part and knowledge that Cecil was from a protected area. The farmer was let go and not charged.

[Blake]

It's a fucking lion. Who cares?

There's only 20-32k left in the world; 600-1000 are killed each year for one reason or another.

I can see why people care. It'll make watching Lion King with kids awkward if they're extinct.

[Wild Cobra]

I see. It'll be difficult to prove he did it on purpose, since he had guides and they've already been charged. He obviously regrets what happened as he apologized for it. Sucks that the lion died but I find it difficult to hold the dentist accountable if he genuinely didn't know. I mean that's why he spent $55k on the hunt.

This is an established business in Zimbabwe. This might be a normal price due to supply and demand, and what the guide pays for licensing. Unless you compile the costs, you shouldn't jump to such conclusions.

[Blake]

http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2015/07/31/more-than-just-cecil-big-troubles-for-king-of-the-jungle?page=2

[Wild Cobra]

Ignorance to the law is not an excuse. Never has been and absolving him because he paid is repugnant. Good job!

Ignorance of the law may or may not be in play here. Palmer may have asked the guide about using a crossbow. Maybe the guide only said something like it will cost you more. The guide is responsible for insuring its a legal hunt, regardless of his clients knowledge of the law. This is why he guide is facing a possible 15 year jail sentence. The proper legal minimum size ammunition was not used, and that is Palmers only crime. It caused for the chase to go on for 40 hours after he shot Cecil with the bolt. We don't know yet if Palmer knew the crossbow was legal or not.

Imagine, running and hiding with a crossbow bolt in your body, for 40 hrs. This was inhumane.

[boutons_deux]

"if he genuinely didn't know"

poor wealthy dentist blowing $55K to kill protected lion, and he just got duped, didn't do his homework, couldn't afford a GPS.

"the Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force says that Cecil the Lion was lured (http://www.zctfofficialsite.org/cecil-the-lion) out of the protected game reserve area by Palmer’s hunting party:


On or about the 6th July 2015, Walter James Palmer was taken to Hwange National Park by professional hunter Theo Bronkhorst. They went hunting at night with a spotlight and they spotted Cecil.

They tied a dead animal to their vehicle to lure Cecil out of the park and they scented an area about half a kilometre from the park.

Mr Palmer shot Cecil with a bow and arrow, but this shot didn’t kill him. They tracked him down and found him 40 hours later, when they shot him with a gun.

They found that he was fitted with a GPS collar because he was being studied by the Hwange Lion Research, funded by Oxford University, so they tried to destroy the collar but failed because it was found."


Read more at http://m.snopes.com/2015/07/29/cecil-lion-walter-dentist/#iDR3caCl8Rij9HYp.99

So Mr Wealthy Dentist knew he had killed a protected lion and tried to cover up his crime, instead of reporting it to the authorities as an "accident".

[Wild Cobra]

I read a report that the environment minister say that landowner didn't even have 1 quota for a lion this year but they did have a leopard permit. That they were trying to lure a leopard off the reserve but took the lion instead because it is easy for the client to say he shot it elsewhere. If that's true, unless this dickless coward can't tell the difference between the two, he most certainly violated the law.

So would that be like a traffic ticket here?

What do the various states do to people if they have a deer permit, but take an elk instead?

[Wild Cobra]

Rofl do you really think the dentist won't be charged? Either here or there, he'll be charged somehow.

His life is already damaged or ruined by media exposure. Isn't that enough?

[Wild Cobra]

Honestly, I'm not sure authorities have a strong case, but public outcry being what it is, I think they'll find something to get him on.

They have a strong case. Palmer used illegal ammunition for the hunt. How serious of a crime this is over here needs to be answered.

Making a case to show any other wrongdoings would be hard under US law, but this isn't US law over there.

[Wild Cobra]

Hey Zimbabwe if you want him extradited why don't you charge him with a crime first?


For real.

They have to search for a law the USA has that matches his crime there. I don't see what that will be. But that is a requirement of our treaty with them.

Any ideas?

Maybe they are scouring our books to see if an state has minimum ammunition size to hunt game here.

[boutons_deux]

Dentist is probably worth several $Ms, he can hire top lawyers to delay extraction, or any punishment, for years. He can also pay PR firms to spread favorable propaganda and whitewashing.

[Wild Cobra]

There's only 20-32k left in the world; 600-1000 are killed each year for one reason or another.

I can see why people care. It'll make watching Lion King with kids awkward if they're extinct.

Yes, but statistics will show that countries that allow legal hunting only issue so many permits, and don't have so many poachers. They actually profit in revenue while maintaining healthy populations. They have motive to keep healthy populations and like any rancher, maintains them for profit.

[Blake]

His life is already damaged or ruined by media exposure. Isn't that enough?

if he committed a crime then no, not enough.

[DarrinS]

Teddy Roosevelt's kill list

http://www.vox.com/2015/7/29/9067587/theodore-roosevelt-safari

[Blake]

Yes, but

There's no but

Statistics show that the lion population is getting very low.

[DarrinS]

http://qz.com/468337/the-biggest-threat-to-african-lions-isnt-foreign-hunters-its-african-people/

[Winehole23]

That shit ton of people needs something better to dolike complain about feminist video game developers?

[Winehole23]

or this: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249304

[baseline bum]

His life is already damaged or ruined by media exposure. Isn't that enough?

No, he should stand trial there for poaching charges. That will be enough.

[Wild Cobra]

There's no but

Statistics show that the lion population is getting very low.

You are looking a global stats. Please break that down to lions in Zimbabwe.

Did you know that in some regions, there was a "cat flu" epidemic wiping out 75 of the population? This was not caused by hunting.

http://lionalert.org/alert/lions_in/zimbabwe

Please notice how wide of range various studies have. We really don't have slid facts, and his is a activist site probably cherry picking what to post.

[Wild Cobra]

http://qz.com/468337/the-biggest-threat-to-african-lions-isnt-foreign-hunters-its-african-people/



In 2012, a group of scientists used satellite data to estimate the size of African savannas where lions could live without being bothered by humans. They found that between 1960 and 2000, the available habitat shrunk by 2.2 million square kilometers, to about 9.7 million square km (about a 20% reduction), while the size of the lion population shrunk by 75%.


I wonder how widespread that "cat flu" was that wiped out 75% of the prides affected?

[Wild Cobra]

http://qz.com/468337/the-biggest-threat-to-african-lions-isnt-foreign-hunters-its-african-people/



Ironically, while big game hunting is controversial, some conservationists have argued in favor of hunting preserves near national parks. The idea is to create some stream of income for locals that creates an incentive to protect lion populations. Other ways to make a living may just result in more human-lion conflict.



Looks like Zimbabwe is doing just this, in allowing the hunts and laws they have.

[Wild Cobra]

No, he should stand trial there for poaching charges. That will be enough.

Please cite what Zimbabwe law we charge him under.

[boutons_deux]

yep, raise lions, leopards, rhinos, elephants, etc like cows, pigs, chickens, just to kill them for profit (and not even to eat).

[Wild Cobra]

yep, raise lions, leopards, rhinos, elephants, etc like cows, pigs, chickens, just to kill them for profit (and not even to eat).

Actually, the locals eat their meat.

Aren't you liberals suppose to be OK with other cultures? What about the hunting culture?

Your bigotry against hunters is on par with other people's bigotry of gays, Christians, etc.

[Blake]

like complain about feminist video game developers?

Lol

[ChumpDumper]

Please cite what Zimbabwe law we charge him under.You don't think there is a poaching law in Zimbabwe?

You're an idiot.

[Wild Cobra]

You don't think there is a poaching law in Zimbabwe?

You're an idiot.

I see it as his responsibility stopping at paying a licensed hunting guide. The guide was licensed to keep things proper.

[Blake]

[QUOTE=Wild Cobra;8151116]You are looking a global stats. Please break that down to lions in Zimbabwe.

right, I'm looking at global stats. 32k left in the entire world is extremely low

[baseline bum]

I see it as his responsibility stopping at paying a licensed hunting guide. The guide was licensed to keep things proper.

Of course you do.

[m>s]

i repeat, zimbabwe is a meme country. no one is getting extradited.

[Wild Cobra]

You are looking a global stats. Please break that down to lions in Zimbabwe.

right, I'm looking at global stats. 32k left in the entire world is extremely low

And if Zimbabwe's lion population is growing because of legal hunting and caretaking to support the business, should it be stopped?

[Wild Cobra]

i repeat, zimbabwe is a meme country. no one is getting extradited.

Awe shucks.

You take all the fun out of it.

I like the idea of letting Palmer fear of extradition.

[m>s]

yeah sorry libcucks this white man won't be getting extradited to coonland and being publicly lynched. i know that's what you guys want for all whites worldwide but it isn't happening.

[TheSanityAnnex]

http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2015/07/31/more-than-just-cecil-big-troubles-for-king-of-the-jungle?page=2

Trophy hunting isn't the problem as your article points out. My question to those who are against legal trophy hunting is what is your solution to save the species if you eliminate the trophy tags? How will you recoup all of the lost private lands that were opened up because of hunting allowing the species more room to roam and increase their numbers? What will be the incentive for land owners to stop illegal poaching now that they won't be able to charge for legal hunts? How will the 200+ million dollars lost from legal trophy hunting be replaced in those regions?

[boutons_deux]

They have to search for a law the USA has that matches his crime there.

Shooting wild game out of season, and out defined areas is a crime in USA, aka poaching.

The dickless dentist already lied about shooting a bear 40 miles from hunting area, and got convicted.

I figure his beautiful teeth will rot or get kicked out in a ZW prison.

[vy65]

like complain about feminist video game developers?

Glad to see you finally saw the light

[vy65]

No seriously, it's a fucking cat halfway across the world. Who cares?

[boutons_deux]

http://cdn.phys.org/newman/csz/news/800/2015/theafricanli.jpg

[Wild Cobra]

http://cdn.phys.org/newman/csz/news/800/2015/theafricanli.jpg
Well, if the cat flu epidemic killed off 75% of the lions before 2000, it looks like they are making a comeback!

[Wild Cobra]

Shooting wild game out of season, and out defined areas is a crime in USA, aka poaching.

About the same as running a stop sign.



The dickless dentist already lied about shooting a bear 40 miles from hunting area, and got convicted.

Did you by chance read the court document and see what his penalty was?



I figure his beautiful teeth will rot or get kicked out in a ZW prison.

Now you see how I feel about abortion. The taking on innocent life.

[ChumpDumper]

I see it as his responsibility stopping at paying a licensed hunting guide. The guide was licensed to keep things proper.You see it wrong.

If someone told you possessing drugs is OK and you get arrested, can you just blame the guy who said it was OK?

[ChumpDumper]

No seriously, it's a fucking cat halfway across the world. Who cares?You do now.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Well, if the cat flu epidemic killed off 75% of the lions before 2000, it looks like they are making a comeback!
They are indeed making a comeback, and you can thank legal trophy hunting for that. Stupid fucks like boutons will of course keep pushing the its the hunters fault narrative when the biggest threat to the lion is the overpopulation of humans, the loss of land due to the farming needed to feed the overpopulation, and the killings of lions by said farmers.

[TheSanityAnnex]

You see it wrong.

If someone told you possessing drugs is OK and you get arrested, can you just blame the guy who said it was OK?
Terrible analogy, again, but not as bad as when you tried to use murder though.

[ChumpDumper]

Terrible analogy, again, but not as bad as when you tried to use murder though.It's all the same thing.

You need to explain how it wouldn't work that way.

It all comes down to using ignorance of the law as a defense -- I dare you to try it next time you get a ticket.

[ddjeffries]

You see it wrong.

If someone told you possessing drugs is OK and you get arrested, can you just blame the guy who said it was OK?

False analogy. Possessing drugs is illegal, lion hunting isn't.

[ChumpDumper]

False analogy. Possessing drugs is illegal, lion hunting isn't.Poaching is illegal, and that's what the guides have been charged with.

lol MENSA meeting here.

[Blake]

Trophy hunting isn't the problem as your article points out.

US News and World Report is a pretty reliable source. Unless you trump it with a better source, I'll take it over you

[ChumpDumper]

US News and World Report is a pretty reliable source. Unless you trump it with a better source, I'll take it over youHas he pasted a screed from the AR15 forum yet?

[TheSanityAnnex]

Poaching is illegal, and that's what the guides have been charged with.

lol MENSA meeting here.
We aren't discussing the guides, we are discussing the dentist. The dentist paid a service to the guides to take him on a legal hunt. Why hasn't the dentist been charged with poaching?

[TheSanityAnnex]

US News and World Report is a pretty reliable source. Unless you trump it with a better source, I'll take it over you
How about I trump it with your own source :lol

Bauer and his Oxford colleague Claudio Sillero said as bad as trophy hunting can be — estimates of lions killed each year range from 600 to more than 1,000 — habitat loss and conflicts between lions and locals over livestock and agriculture are bigger problems.

eta blakes reliable source http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2015/07/31/more-than-just-cecil-big-troubles-for-king-of-the-jungle?page=2

[ddjeffries]

Poaching is illegal, and that's what the guides have been charged with.

lol MENSA meeting here.

RIGHT. The guards were charged. Not him. He didn't do the poaching. Not a difficult concept.

[Wild Cobra]

Terrible analogy, again, but not as bad as when you tried to use murder though.

But if the licensed and paid expert tells me what is OK and what isn't, aren't I suppose to trust him?

[Wild Cobra]

We aren't discussing the guides, we are discussing the dentist. The dentist paid a service to the guides to take him on a legal hunt. Why hasn't the dentist been charged with poaching?

If I go to a lawyer, a paid professional in the field, and he tells me I can do something that turns out to be illegal, who does the liability go to?

[Wild Cobra]

Here is what the professional guide was suppose to honor:

http://www.africanhunteronline.com/a-question-of-lions-in--africa.pdf



SAFARI OPERATORS ASSOCIATION OF ZIMBABWE



CODE OF CONDUCT



This Code of Conduct will be complied with by all members of the Safari Operators Association of Zimbabwe.





OBJECTIVES OF THE CODE



To encourage the growth and development of the consumptive and non-consumptive wildlife tourism industry, in a manner consistent with these objectives.



To actively promote the preservation and sustainable utilization of the environment.



To maintain, protect and enhance the reputation, standing and good name of Zimbabwe’s consumptive and non-consumptive wildlife tourism industries and the Association and its members.



To ensure that all members conduct their business in a manner which will reflect the highest possible standards in business.



To encourage initiative and enterprise in the belief that properly regulated competitive trading will best serve the aspirations of the consumptive and non-consumptive wildlife tourism industries.





GENERAL



This code is designed to regulate the activities of members between themselves, clients and suppliers.



This code recognises and embodies the relevant parts of all acts of Parliament and Government regulations which relate to the consumptive and non-consumptive wildlife tourism industries as well as the codes and regulations of recognised organisations or associations such as the Zimbabwe Council for Tourism and its associated bodies.



The code recognises the necessity for enforcement of standards and practices and embodies measures and procedures by which members may uphold the code under the authority of the Executive Committee.



Members shall familiarise themselves and their staff with the provisions of this Code of Conduct.



Members shall observe not only the letter but also the spirit of the code of conduct and its ethics and ideals thus giving true significance to Aims and Objectives of the Association.





THE CODE



Members shall deal honestly and fairly with each other, with clients and suppliers of services.



Members shall treat all details of their negotiations confidentially and shall not divulge them to any third party except as required by law.



Members shall not knowingly make false or misleading statement relating to the following :-



their ability to successfully and professionally meet potential clients’ needs;

competitors;

rates, costs, accommodation, transportation, capacities or any other factor.



Members shall honour all contracts, both with clients and suppliers in spirit as well as intent and shall make every effort to honour all commitments, both written and oral.



Members shall settle all financial obligations in accordance with normal commercial practice unless otherwise specifically agreed with suppliers.



Members shall confirm all services in written form.



Members shall not attempt to convert business to themselves by directly or indirectly bringing the name of another member to disrepute.



Members shall pay the annual subscription within the specified period.





THE DISCIPLINARY COMMITTEE



The Executive Committee shall from time to time appoint a Disciplinary Committee. The Disciplinary Committee shall investigate alleged breaches of the Constitution and/or Rules of the Association and all complaints made against members. The Disciplinary Committee shall comprise of a Chairman and three members appointed by the Executive Committee.



The Disciplinary Committee shall appoint a secretary (“the Secretary”) who shall keep, or cause to be kept, such records as are hereby required or otherwise deemed appropriate.



The quorum necessary for the transaction of business by the Disciplinary Committee may be varied by the Executive Committee shall be not less than three.



The following records shall be kept by the secretary:



details of all alleged breaches of the Constitution and/or Rules of the

Association and all complaints made against Members;



(ii) details of all disciplinary action taken against Members; and

minutes of all resolutions and proceedings of the Disciplinary Committee.





PROCEDURE FOR DISCIPLINARY MATTERS



No alleged breach of the Code of complaint made against a member shall be investigated by the disciplinary Committee unless:



the complaint is made in writing by the complainant and delivered to the Association office: or

the complaint is initiated by a member of the Executive Committee and is sent in writing to the Chairman of the Executive Committee.



The Chairman may refuse in his absolute discretion to refer a complaint to the Disciplinary Committee or may require further details of the complaint to be furnished before making such a referral. In the event that the Chairman refuses to refer a complaint to the Disciplinary Committee, the complainant, if a member, may appeal his refusal to the Executive Committee in writing and the decision of the Executive Committee in this regard shall be final.



Upon receipt of a complaint, the Chairman shall (if he thinks fit) refer to the Executive Committee. The Executive Committee shall at its next meeting, consider the complaint and carry out or cause an investigation as it shall deem appropriate. If after investigation the Committee shall consider it necessary or desirable, it shall convene a formal meeting of the Disciplinary Committee to rule upon the matter.



The member against whom a complaint or allegation lies shall be given not less than fourteen days notice of the date, place and time of the disciplinary hearing at which the matter will be ruled upon, together with full details of the complaint or allegation made against him.



The Disciplinary Committee shall be entitled at any time to require a member against whom a complaint lies to provide a written response to such complaint or to produce documentation, records or information connected with such complaint. If a member unreasonably refuses to comply with a request by the Disciplinary Committee to produce documentation, records or information, his refusal shall be dealt with as a separate disciplinary matter punishable by expulsion or other appropriate measures as determined by the Disciplinary Committee, from membership of the Association.



If the Disciplinary Committee concludes that contravention of the rules of the Association or an allegation has been established, it shall have the power to impose all or any combination of the following sanctions:

issue a caution to the Member;

reprimand the Member;

suspend the Member from membership and all benefits of membership of the Association;

expel the Member from membership and withdraw all benefits of membership of the Association;

make whatever recommendation it deems fit to the regulatory authorities regarding the licensing of the Member or any other matter



The Member concerned shall in all cases pay the costs and expenses of the investigation and hearing (if applicable) or such portion thereof as shall be directed by the Disciplinary Committee where a complaint or allegation is established as well founded.



The Disciplinary Committee shall notify the Member concerned and the Executive Committee of its decision not later than 14 days after conclusion of investigation and hearing.





APPEALS TO THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE



6.1 A member who has been found to have contravened the Constitution and Rules of the Association or against whom an allegation has been established and upon whom any of the sanctions referred to in Clause 5.5 have been imposed shall be entitled to appeal against such imposition to the Executive Committee.



6.2 A Member wishing to exercise his right of appeal shall within 14 days of receiving notification of the determination of the Disciplinary Committee send notice in writing to the Chairman of his intention to appeal and shall at the same time indicate whether or not he intends to be legally represented at the appeal hearing. After the said period has lapsed and in the event of the Member not exercising his right of appeal the decision of the Disciplinary Committee shall be deemed final and binding.



An appeal to the Executive Committee shall be conducted as a full rehearing of the complaint or allegation against the member. New evidence or other matters not raised at the disciplinary hearing may be introduced provided such evidence or matters are relevant to the issues to be determined by the Executive Committee.



The Executive Committee shall be entitled to call for a written or oral report of the investigation and hearing of the Disciplinary Committee and shall have power to call any member of the Disciplinary Committee before it for the purpose of explaining, expanding or clarifying any matters contained in such report.



The Executive Committee shall be at liberty to publish its decisions and the sanctions imposed in disciplinary matters in the Association’s newsletter or by means of a circular to members of the Association or any other way that is deemed appropriate.





The Safari Operators Association of Zimbabwe request all members to read, acknowledge and abide by the above Code of Conduct and to sign their acceptance of such Code of Conduct in the appropriate space below.

[ddjeffries]

If I go to a lawyer, a paid professional in the field, and he tells me I can do something that turns out to be illegal, who does the liability go to?

If you know it's illegal and you still do it, you are liable.

The hunter is stating he had no idea it was a protected lion. If he knew it was a protected lion, he would have been arrested as well.

[vy65]

You do now.

No

[Blake]

How about I trump it with your own source :lol

Bauer and his Oxford colleague Claudio Sillero said as bad as trophy hunting can be — estimates of lions killed each year range from 600 to more than 1,000 — habitat loss and conflicts between lions and locals over livestock and agriculture are bigger problems.

eta blakes reliable source http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2015/07/31/more-than-just-cecil-big-troubles-for-king-of-the-jungle?page=2

Yeah "as bad as trophy hunting can be" implies it's a problem. The article never said it's "the" problem. That was all you.

you have reading comp issues, tbh.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Yeah "as bad as trophy hunting can be" implies it's a problem. The article never said it's "the" problem. That was all you.

you have reading comp issues, tbh.
Where is your outrage concerning the biggest threat to lions; farming, land, locals killing them?

[TheSanityAnnex]

Trophy hunting isn't the problem as your article points out. My question to those who are against legal trophy hunting is what is your solution to save the species if you eliminate the trophy tags? How will you recoup all of the lost private lands that were opened up because of hunting allowing the species more room to roam and increase their numbers? What will be the incentive for land owners to stop illegal poaching now that they won't be able to charge for legal hunts? How will the 200+ million dollars lost from legal trophy hunting be replaced in those regions?

ITT thread a bunch of whining and not single solution to legal trophy hunting.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

From what I understand, the guides are throwing him under the bus. They said he wanted to use the bow and arrow for stealth and was asking for other poaching opportunities.

It's up in the air obviously what they are going to do with him. The wishful thinking going on by the pro-poacher crowd is amusing.

[Wild Cobra]

If you know it's illegal and you still do it, you are liable.

The hunter is stating he had no idea it was a protected lion. If he knew it was a protected lion, he would have been arrested as well.

That's my point.

The guides moral and legal obligations are clearly spelled out, and it is the guide that violated the law.

[Wild Cobra]

From what I understand, the guides are throwing him under the bus. They said he wanted to use the bow and arrow for stealth and was asking for other poaching opportunities.

It's up in the air obviously what they are going to do with him. The wishful thinking going on by the pro-poacher crowd is amusing.

Did they say that they told him it was illegal?

Why did they allow it anyway? Surely he paid part of the money up front. They cold have walked away from him and kept the down payment.

I haven't noticed anyone advocating "poaching."

I see you still refuse to acknowledge that words have specific meanings.

[Blake]

Where is your outrage concerning the biggest threat to lions; farming, land, locals killing them?

They are all issues that they need to address for lion survival. Nobody is saying they're not. That's all you building a straw man.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Ignorance to the law is not an excuse.

[Blake]

That's my point.

The guides moral and legal obligations are clearly spelled out, and it is the guide that violated the law.

So did the dentist, dumbass.

[Blake]

Ignorance to the law is not an excuse.

unless he doesn't know that ignorance of the law is no excuse

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Unless his guides gave him a fake hunting license or something then he is every bit as culpable as those guides. If he didn't obtain a license to hunt the lion then it is what it is. Poaching.

[TheSanityAnnex]

From what I understand, the guides are throwing him under the bus. They said he wanted to use the bow and arrow for stealth and was asking for other poaching opportunities.

It's up in the air obviously what they are going to do with him. The wishful thinking going on by the pro-poacher crowd is amusing.
Find just one pro-poaching post, just one.

[TheSanityAnnex]

They are all issues that they need to address for lion survival. Nobody is saying they're not. That's all you building a straw man.
They are bigger issues than poaching, where has your outrage been?

[TheSanityAnnex]

ITT thread a bunch of whining and not single solution to legal trophy hunting.
My question to those who are against legal trophy hunting is what is your solution to save the species if you eliminate the trophy tags? How will you recoup all of the lost private lands that were opened up because of hunting allowing the species more room to roam and increase their numbers? What will be the incentive for land owners to stop illegal poaching now that they won't be able to charge for legal hunts? How will the 200+ million dollars lost from legal trophy hunting be replaced in those regions?

[Blake]

They are bigger issues than poaching, where has your outrage been?

Why should I be outraged

[Wild Cobra]

Interesting link:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/30/us-zimbabwe-wildlife-lion-idUSKCN0Q41VB20150730

[TheSanityAnnex]

Why should I be outraged

You seemed so concerned with the lion population decreasing because of hunters I thought for sure the biggest threats the lions faces would garner more of your concern, even outrage.

Which is a bigger threat to the lion...hunters or habitat loss?

[TheSanityAnnex]

Interesting link:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/30/us-zimbabwe-wildlife-lion-idUSKCN0Q41VB20150730


what lion?:lol

[m>s]

My question to those who are against legal trophy hunting is what is your solution to save the species if you eliminate the trophy tags? How will you recoup all of the lost private lands that were opened up because of hunting allowing the species more room to roam and increase their numbers? What will be the incentive for land owners to stop illegal poaching now that they won't be able to charge for legal hunts? How will the 200+ million dollars lost from legal trophy hunting be replaced in those regions?whoa whoa whoa too many facts there pal. We all know that the liberals prefer feelings over logic.

[Clipper Nation]

My question to those who are against legal trophy hunting is what is your solution to save the species if you eliminate the trophy tags? How will you recoup all of the lost private lands that were opened up because of hunting allowing the species more room to roam and increase their numbers? What will be the incentive for land owners to stop illegal poaching now that they won't be able to charge for legal hunts? How will the 200+ million dollars lost from legal trophy hunting be replaced in those regions?
"Easy solution, we'll just fix the region with our feels."

- Liberals

[ChumpDumper]

We aren't discussing the guides, we are discussing the dentist. The dentist paid a service to the guides to take him on a legal hunt. Why hasn't the dentist been charged with poaching?most likely because no American has ever been extradited to Zimbabwe and our government is no so excited about their human rights record, etc.

As I said before, it is quote possible for Your hero to be prosecuted in the US for violations of international agreements so Zimbabwe charges would be superfluous. I think that is the way everyone will want this to work out.

Is there any part of this you do not understand?

I'm here to help you.

[ChumpDumper]

RIGHT. The guards were charged. Not him. He didn't do the poaching. Not a difficult concept.He did the actual poaching, but his citizenship and current location complicate matters.

Not a difficult concept.

Well, it might be too complicated for you. Let me know. I'm here to help you too.

[ChumpDumper]

If I go to a lawyer, a paid professional in the field, and he tells me I can do something that turns out to be illegal, who does the liability go to?You.

Sign you name on a fraudulent tax return prepared by someone else, you're liable.

This shit is so easy.

[ChumpDumper]

My question to those who are against legal trophy hunting is what is your solution to save the species if you eliminate the trophy tags? How will you recoup all of the lost private lands that were opened up because of hunting allowing the species more room to roam and increase their numbers? What will be the incentive for land owners to stop illegal poaching now that they won't be able to charge for legal hunts? How will the 200+ million dollars lost from legal trophy hunting be replaced in those regions?I am against illegal hunts like the one your hero took part in.

[TheSanityAnnex]

most likely because no American has ever been extradited to Zimbabwe and our government is no so excited about their human rights record, etc.

As I said before, it is quote possible for Your hero to be prosecuted in the US for violations of international agreements so Zimbabwe charges would be superfluous. I think that is the way everyone will want this to work out.

Is there any part of this you do not understand?

I'm here to help you.
My hero :lol the guy is an asshole
find one post of me supporting the dentist, just one. I've stated I didn't think he'd be charged because of the circumstances, he paid guides for a legal hunt which he thought he was taking part in. Whether or not he knew his participation was illegal at the time the lion was killed is going to be very hard for officials to prove.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Chump it is obvious you are anti-poaching as am I.

What are your thoughts on legal big game tags and what is their impact on the environment/economy?

[ChumpDumper]

My hero :lol the guy is an asshole
find one post of me supporting the dentist, just one. I've stated I didn't think he'd be charged because of the circumstances, he paid guides for a legal hunt which he thought he was taking part in. Whether or not he knew his participation was illegal at the time the lion was killed is going to be very hard for officials to prove.Ignorance of the law isn't a defense.

How many times do you have to be told that?

[ChumpDumper]

Chump it is obvious you are anti-poaching as am I.

What are your thoughts on legal big game tags and what is their impact on the environment/economy?the only way I am for it in the case of something like a lion is if it is past its breeding years and even then the dude should try something else to compensate for his penis.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Ignorance of the law isn't a defense.

How many times do you have to be told that?
Ok cool. You think he'll be charged with poaching and I don't. Guess we'll just see what happens.

[TheSanityAnnex]

the only way I am for it in the case of something like a lion is if it is past its breeding years and even then the dude should try something else to compensate for his penis.
What are your thoughts on its impact on the environment and economy?

[ChumpDumper]

Ok cool. You think he'll be charged with poaching and I don't. Guess we'll just see what happens.As I said four time before I think he will be prosecuted in the US for violations of international agreements.

Jesus, did you all just decide to be stupid together since it has something to do with guns?

[ChumpDumper]

What are your thoughts on its impact on the environment and economy?I think it's not the only way to raise money for conservation.

[TheSanityAnnex]

As I said four time before I think he will be prosecuted in the US for violations of international agreements.

Jesus, did you all just decide to be stupid together since it has something to do with guns?
Still waiting for a post of me supporting the dentist, or in your words my hero.

[TheSanityAnnex]

I think it's not the only way to raise money for conservation.

How would you make up for the lost $200 million? How would you convince all the private land owners to keep their lands open if there was no financial incentive?

[ChumpDumper]

Still waiting for a post of me supporting the dentist, or in your words my hero.Support, defend, rationalize -- whatever.

[ChumpDumper]

How would you make up for the lost $200 million? How would you convince all the private land owners to keep their lands open if there was no financial incentive?Where are you getting $200 million? Is that all for threatened and endangered trophies? You'll have to get pretty specific here.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Support, defend, rationalize -- whatever.
Go ahead and try to find one of my posts doing any of that. I've said he's an asshole from the start.

[ChumpDumper]

Go ahead and try to find one of my posts doing any of that. I've said he's an asshole from the start.You've done plenty to rationalize his actions, sport.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Where are you getting $200 million? Is that all for threatened and endangered trophies? You'll have to get pretty specific here.
I've linked it during this discussion. You are more than welcome to find it.

How would you convince all the private land owners to keep their lands open if there was no financial incentive?

[TheSanityAnnex]

You've done plenty to rationalize his actions, sport.
Link please.

[ChumpDumper]

I've linked it during this discussion. You are more than welcome to find it.

How would you convince all the private land owners to keep their lands open if there was no financial incentive?If I get the actual numbers and the actual landowners (that shit is in some manner of flux there) I'll decide whether to cast a vote for penis compensation.

[ChumpDumper]

Link please.Look up.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Look up.
There's nothing in this thread or any of the others with me showing support for the dentist.

[TheSanityAnnex]

If I get the actual numbers and the actual landowners (that shit is in some manner of flux there) I'll decide whether to cast a vote for penis compensation.
I see you're done having a serious discussion.

[ChumpDumper]

There's nothing in this thread or any of the others with me showing support for the dentist.ra·tion·al·ize
ˈraSHənlˌīz,ˈraSHnəˌlīz/Submit
verb

1. attempt to explain or justify (one's own or another's behavior or attitude) with logical, plausible reasons, even if these are not true or appropriate.


I see you're done having a serious discussion.I seriously told you exactly what I need to draw a conclusion here. If you can't or won't provide them, that's fine. Forgive me for not believing half the shit you post.

[ChumpDumper]

OK, first article I found:


In practice though, studies have shown that only about three per cent of these fees actually reaches the local communities. Most of the money is siphoned off by the hunting industry and government officials.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/does-zimbabwe-really-need-trophy-hunting

If communities in the whole of Africa are only getting $6 million total then I'm fane with shutting down the whole practice completely.

[TheSanityAnnex]

ra·tion·al·ize
ˈraSHənlˌīz,ˈraSHnəˌlīz/Submit
verb

1. attempt to explain or justify (one's own or another's behavior or attitude) with logical, plausible reasons, even if these are not true or appropriate.

I seriously told you exactly what I need to draw a conclusion here. If you can't or won't provide them, that's fine. Forgive me for not believing half the shit you post.
Like I said I've already linked it. I'm sure you're familiar with the search member post function and I doubt you'll be logging of Spurstalk any time soon, so find what you need and stop being lazy.

Assuming you continue to be lazy I'll ask you a question you needn't look up data for. In your opinion is legal trophy hunting a net positive or negative on the environment, and why?

[ChumpDumper]

Like I said I've already linked it. I'm sure you're familiar with the search member post function and I doubt you'll be logging of Spurstalk any time soon, so find what you need and stop being lazy.

Assuming you continue to be lazy I'll ask you a question you needn't look up data for. In your opinion is legal trophy hunting a net positive or negative on the environment, and why?Looks like it's pretty worthless.

Shut it all down.

[TheSanityAnnex]

OK, first article I found:



http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/does-zimbabwe-really-need-trophy-hunting

If communities in the whole of Africa are only getting $6 million total then I'm fane with shutting down the whole practice completely.

How do you propose you keep all the private lands open which are the biggest factor in endangered species making comebacks. Why would they keep their lands open with no more financial hunting incentive?

[TheSanityAnnex]

Looks like it's pretty worthless.

Shut it all down.
You shut down trophy hunting you shut out land. You would be responsible for more deaths than poaching.

[ChumpDumper]

How do you propose you keep all the private lands open which are the biggest factor in endangered species making comebacks. Why would they keep their lands open with no more financial hunting incentive?You were saying it's a boon to African communities.

Now you are saying it's just a boon to landowners.

If that's the case, their land can be taken. We do it all the time when we deem it important enough.

Either enclose the parks or expand them. Compensation can be made in the latter case.

[ChumpDumper]

If all it takes is $6 million to help all the communities in Africa the way trophy hunting does now, I'm all for the US government's just giving it to those communities.

[TheSanityAnnex]

You were saying it's a boon to African communities.

Now you are saying it's just a boon to landowners.

If that's the case, their land can be taken. We do it all the time when we deem it important enough.

Either enclose the parks or expand them. Compensation can be made in the latter case.
I've said the communities and the animals both benefit from the start. You keep grasping for straws and coming up empty. It's hard for you to accept that trophy hunting tags are actually beneficial to the animals hunted, and it's amusing watching you avoid admitting it.

[ChumpDumper]

If said the communities and the animals both benefit from the start. You keep grasping for straws and coming up empty. It's hard for you to accept that trophy hunting tags are actually beneficial to the animals hunted, and it's amusing watching you avoid admitting it.If all it takes is $6 million for the whole continent of Africa, I'm fine with shutting down the whole penis compensation industry.

What part of that do you not understand?

It's amusing watching you play stupid this whole conversation, but I'm really starting to think you are stupid. Let me know if your stupidity here is just an act.

[ChumpDumper]

Again, first article I saw.


But there is a counter example that is, for a change, really good news. In Rwanda, the government has taken a different approach to species preservation that appears to be working. Not long ago, the entire population of wild mountain gorillas was believed to have fallen to the extremely low number of some two hundred and fifty individuals, most of which lived in the nearly impenetrable jungle peaks of Rwanda, Uganda, and the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Rather than sell hunting permits, Rwanda now sells expensive ecotourism permits, enabling tourists to hike into the endangered species’ habitat with expert guides and see them at close range.

Ecotourism has incentivized the neighboring communities to protect rather than poach the animals, much more effectively than the hunting permits. The Rwandan guides are trained and employed by the government. They are accompanied by local porters, some of whom are former poachers, who earn better wages than they would otherwise by helping the tourists navigate the difficult terrain. Tourists are only permitted to mingle with the gorillas for a total of an hour per day, in order to protect the animals’ privacy. And only a third of the total gorilla population is ever exposed to the human interlopers. Another third is studied by scientists, and the last third is left completely wild. Miraculously, even with these restrictions, the gorillas have become Rwanda’s No. 1 tourist attraction, and tourism is commonly said to be the country’s No. 1 industry. The ecotourism fees are paying for modern schools and electricity in the villages at the entrance to the national park where the gorillas live. And the gorilla population is growing.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/does-zimbabwe-really-need-trophy-hunting

If this works, why not do it elsewhere?

Your problem is that you have blinders on when guns are involved. Guns have to be the answer to you or your world falls apart.

[boutons_deux]

Zimbabwe Officials Say Another American Illegally Killed a Lion in an Authorized Hunt

A prominent American gynecologist illegally killed a lion in an authorized hunt this year in Zimbabwe (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/zimbabwe/index.html?inline=nyt-geo), wildlife authorities there said Sunday.

The Zimbabwe (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/zimbabwe/index.html?inline=nyt-geo) Parks and Wildlife Management Authority said in a news release (http://www.zimparks.org/index.php/mc/218-zimparks-has-set-up-a-specific-wildlife-conservation-and-monitoring-fund) that Jan Casmir Sieski of Murrysville, Pa., took part in a hunt in April on a farm just outside Hwange National Park, where a popular lion was lured away and killed by an American dentist last month.

No one by that name was found in public records. But the address given by the Zimbabwe government belongs to Jan Casimir Seski, a gynecological oncologist with a practice in Pittsburgh.

Zimbabwean officials told (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/2d353420107d4f01b2aa59d598b20ba9/zimbabwe-alleges-2nd-american-involved-illegal-lion-hunt) The Associated Press that Dr. Seski killed a lion, shooting it with a bow and arrow, on a farm owned by a safari tour operator named Headman Sibanda.

(http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/03/world/africa/zimbabwe-cecil-lion-american-doctor-illegal-hunting.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0#story-continues-2)
“The American conducted his hunt in an area where lion hunting is outlawed,” Caroline Washaya Moyo, Zimbabwe National Parks spokeswoman, told (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/2d353420107d4f01b2aa59d598b20ba9/zimbabwe-alleges-2nd-american-involved-illegal-lion-hunt) the AP. “The landowner who helped him with the hunt also did not have a quota for lion hunting.”

Dr. Seski, 68, is considered a pioneer in the practice of bloodless surgery. He did not immediately return calls to his home and office seeking comment. He is the medical director (https://www.ahn.org/specialties/bloodless-medicine/our-doctors) of the Allegheny General Hospital’s Center for Bloodless Medicine and Surgery, and the director of the division of gynecological oncology there.

Officials said the owner of the farm, Mr. Sibanda, had been arrested on suspicion of breaching hunting regulations. He was accused of hunting without a quota and permit, and is cooperating with the police investigation, according to the release.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/03/world/africa/zimbabwe-cecil-lion-american-doctor-illegal-hunting.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0

[TheSanityAnnex]

Again, first article I saw.



http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/does-zimbabwe-really-need-trophy-hunting

If this works, why not do it elsewhere?

Your problem is that you have blinders on when guns are involved. Guns have to be the answer to you or your world falls apart.
I suggest you research this topic a bit more.
Because the vast majority of the land where these trophy permits are issued is not land tourists go to see. There is no Eco-tourism money to be made there. The hunting lands are designated exactly because of this.

You can keep quoting the New Y:lolrker though, I've always respected their well informed articles on conservation efforts.

[ChumpDumper]

I suggest you research this topic a bit more.
Because the vast majority of the land where these trophy permits are issued is not land tourists go to see. There is no Eco-tourism money to be made there. The hunting lands are designated exactly because of this.

You can keep quoting the New Y:lolrker though, I've always respected their well informed articles on conservation efforts.Again, if all it takes is $6 million to help the communities of the entire continent, I'm fine with shutting it all down.

I'm waiting on your penis compensation argument.

You've never read the New Yorker so don't be a bitch about it now.

Link your article from you subscription to African Conservation Weekly.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Again, if all it takes is $6 million to help the communities of the entire continent, I'm fine with shutting it all down.

I'm waiting on your penis compensation argument.

You've never read the New Yorker so don't be a bitch about it now.Your plan for keeping the private land open isn't feasible, you would be the death of all species.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Zimbabwe Officials Say Another American Illegally Killed a Lion in an Authorized Hunt

A prominent American gynecologist illegally killed a lion in an authorized hunt this year in Zimbabwe (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/zimbabwe/index.html?inline=nyt-geo), wildlife authorities there said Sunday.

The Zimbabwe (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/zimbabwe/index.html?inline=nyt-geo) Parks and Wildlife Management Authority said in a news release (http://www.zimparks.org/index.php/mc/218-zimparks-has-set-up-a-specific-wildlife-conservation-and-monitoring-fund) that Jan Casmir Sieski of Murrysville, Pa., took part in a hunt in April on a farm just outside Hwange National Park, where a popular lion was lured away and killed by an American dentist last month.

No one by that name was found in public records. But the address given by the Zimbabwe government belongs to Jan Casimir Seski, a gynecological oncologist with a practice in Pittsburgh.

Zimbabwean officials told (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/2d353420107d4f01b2aa59d598b20ba9/zimbabwe-alleges-2nd-american-involved-illegal-lion-hunt) The Associated Press that Dr. Seski killed a lion, shooting it with a bow and arrow, on a farm owned by a safari tour operator named Headman Sibanda.

(http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/03/world/africa/zimbabwe-cecil-lion-american-doctor-illegal-hunting.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0#story-continues-2)
“The American conducted his hunt in an area where lion hunting is outlawed,” Caroline Washaya Moyo, Zimbabwe National Parks spokeswoman, told (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/2d353420107d4f01b2aa59d598b20ba9/zimbabwe-alleges-2nd-american-involved-illegal-lion-hunt) the AP. “The landowner who helped him with the hunt also did not have a quota for lion hunting.”

Dr. Seski, 68, is considered a pioneer in the practice of bloodless surgery. He did not immediately return calls to his home and office seeking comment. He is the medical director (https://www.ahn.org/specialties/bloodless-medicine/our-doctors) of the Allegheny General Hospital’s Center for Bloodless Medicine and Surgery, and the director of the division of gynecological oncology there.

Officials said the owner of the farm, Mr. Sibanda, had been arrested on suspicion of breaching hunting regulations. He was accused of hunting without a quota and permit, and is cooperating with the police investigation, according to the release.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/03/world/africa/zimbabwe-cecil-lion-american-doctor-illegal-hunting.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0



By MacDonald Dzirutwe
HARARE (Reuters) - As social media exploded with outrage this week at the killing of Cecil the lion, the untimely passing of the celebrated predator at the hands of an American dentist went largely unnoticed in the animal's native Zimbabwe.
"What lion?" acting information minister Prisca Mupfumira asked in response to a request for comment about Cecil, who was at that moment topping global news bulletins and generating reams of abuse for his killer on websites in the United States and Europe.
The government has still given no formal response, and on Thursday the papers that chose to run the latest twist in the Cecil saga tucked it away on inside pages.
One title had to rely on foreign news agency copy because it failed to send a reporter to the court appearance of two locals involved.
In contrast, the previous evening 200 people stood in protest outside the suburban Minneapolis dental practice of 55-year-old Walter Palmer, calling for him to be extradited to Zimbabwe to face charges of taking part in an illegal hunt.
Local police are also investigating death threats against Palmer, whose location is not known. Because many of the threats were online, police are having difficulty determining their origins and credibility.
Palmer, a lifelong big game hunter, has admitted killing Cecil with a bow and arrow on July 1 near Zimbabwe's Hwange national park, but said he had hired professional local guides with the required hunting permits and believed the hunt was legal.
For most people in the southern African nation, where unemployment tops 80 percent and the economy continues to feel the after-effects of billion percent hyperinflation a decade ago, the uproar had all the hallmarks of a 'First World Problem'.
"Are you saying that all this noise is about a dead lion? Lions are killed all the time in this country," said Tryphina Kaseke, a used-clothes hawker on the streets of Harare. "What is so special about this one?"
As with many countries in Africa, in Zimbabwe big wild animals such as lions, elephants or hippos are seen either as a potential meal, or a threat to people and property that needs to be controlled or killed.
The world of Palmer, who paid $50,000 to kill 13-year-old Cecil, is a very different one from that inhabited by millions of rural Africans who are more than occasionally victims of wild animal attacks.
According to CrocBITE, a database, from January 2008 to October 2013, there were more than 460 recorded attacks by Nile crocodiles, most of them fatal. That tally is almost certainly a massive underrepresentation.
"Why are the Americans more concerned than us?" said Joseph Mabuwa, a 33-year-old father-of-two cleaning his car in the center of the capital. "We never hear them speak out when villagers are killed by lions and elephants in Hwange."


:lol what lion?

[ChumpDumper]

Your plan for keeping the private land isn't feasible, you would be the death of all species.Who said anything about keeping the land private?

[Wild Cobra]

Zimbabwe Officials Say Another American Illegally Killed a Lion in an Authorized Hunt

A prominent American gynecologist illegally killed a lion in an authorized hunt this year in Zimbabwe (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/zimbabwe/index.html?inline=nyt-geo), wildlife authorities there said Sunday.

The Zimbabwe (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/zimbabwe/index.html?inline=nyt-geo) Parks and Wildlife Management Authority said in a news release (http://www.zimparks.org/index.php/mc/218-zimparks-has-set-up-a-specific-wildlife-conservation-and-monitoring-fund) that Jan Casmir Sieski of Murrysville, Pa., took part in a hunt in April on a farm just outside Hwange National Park, where a popular lion was lured away and killed by an American dentist last month.

No one by that name was found in public records. But the address given by the Zimbabwe government belongs to Jan Casimir Seski, a gynecological oncologist with a practice in Pittsburgh.

Zimbabwean officials told (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/2d353420107d4f01b2aa59d598b20ba9/zimbabwe-alleges-2nd-american-involved-illegal-lion-hunt) The Associated Press that Dr. Seski killed a lion, shooting it with a bow and arrow, on a farm owned by a safari tour operator named Headman Sibanda.

(http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/03/world/africa/zimbabwe-cecil-lion-american-doctor-illegal-hunting.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0#story-continues-2)
“The American conducted his hunt in an area where lion hunting is outlawed,” Caroline Washaya Moyo, Zimbabwe National Parks spokeswoman, told (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/2d353420107d4f01b2aa59d598b20ba9/zimbabwe-alleges-2nd-american-involved-illegal-lion-hunt) the AP. “The landowner who helped him with the hunt also did not have a quota for lion hunting.”

Dr. Seski, 68, is considered a pioneer in the practice of bloodless surgery. He did not immediately return calls to his home and office seeking comment. He is the medical director (https://www.ahn.org/specialties/bloodless-medicine/our-doctors) of the Allegheny General Hospital’s Center for Bloodless Medicine and Surgery, and the director of the division of gynecological oncology there.

Officials said the owner of the farm, Mr. Sibanda, had been arrested on suspicion of breaching hunting regulations. He was accused of hunting without a quota and permit, and is cooperating with the police investigation, according to the release.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/03/world/africa/zimbabwe-cecil-lion-american-doctor-illegal-hunting.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0




Are they making up this story too?

[Blake]

You seemed so concerned with the lion population decreasing because of hunters I thought for sure the biggest threats the lions faces would garner more of your concern, even outrage.

Which is a bigger threat to the lion...hunters or habitat loss?

the messageboard moderate outrage is for illegal hunts like the dentist. I simply question the legal ones that don't do anything to help increase populations.

but do you really believe people should have the same outrage for farmers as they do for big game hunters?

[boutons_deux]

Big game hunter Sabrina Corgatelli defends killing giraffe: They “are very dangerous animals that could hurt you very seriously”


http://media.salon.com/2015/08/giraffe-nbc-news-today.jpg

“everybody just thinks we’re cold-hearted killers, and it’s not that. There is a connection with the animal, :lol and just because we hunt them doesn’t mean we don’t have a respect for them.” :lol

She added that she was, in effect, doing a public service, :lol because despite being herbivores who mostly congregate in national parks, “giraffes are very dangerous animals” and “they could hurt you seriously very quickly.”

Her it-could-be-coming-right-for-us (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt6kKhlX8vU) defense aside, Corgatelli is correct to note that “everything I’ve done here is legal,” and questioned how people can “fault somebody because of their hobbies.

Asked by Daly if she thinks her job could be in jeopardy, she replied with a question of her own — “How can an employer chastise you for something you do on your personal time that’s legally done?”

http://www.salon.com/2015/08/03/big_game_hunter_sabrina_corgatelli_defends_killing _giraffe_they_are_very_dangerous_animals_that_coul d_hurt_you_very_seriously/

Hey, lady, US employers can fire you for almost ANY reason, and they do, every day.

typical totally fucked up gun fellator

[TheSanityAnnex]

Big game hunter Sabrina Corgatelli defends killing giraffe: They “are very dangerous animals that could hurt you very seriously”


http://media.salon.com/2015/08/giraffe-nbc-news-today.jpg

“everybody just thinks we’re cold-hearted killers, and it’s not that. There is a connection with the animal, :lol and just because we hunt them doesn’t mean we don’t have a respect for them.” :lol

She added that she was, in effect, doing a public service, :lol because despite being herbivores who mostly congregate in national parks, “giraffes are very dangerous animals” and “they could hurt you seriously very quickly.”

Her it-could-be-coming-right-for-us (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt6kKhlX8vU) defense aside, Corgatelli is correct to note that “everything I’ve done here is legal,” and questioned how people can “fault somebody because of their hobbies.

Asked by Daly if she thinks her job could be in jeopardy, she replied with a question of her own — “How can an employer chastise you for something you do on your personal time that’s legally done?”

http://www.salon.com/2015/08/03/big_game_hunter_sabrina_corgatelli_defends_killing _giraffe_they_are_very_dangerous_animals_that_coul d_hurt_you_very_seriously/

Hey, lady, US employers can fire you for almost ANY reason, and they do, every day.

typical totally fucked up gun fellator




Am I correct in assuming you own a farm and personally slaughter all of the meat you consume?

[DarrinS]

Internet mob "justice" is out of control

http://www.vox.com/2015/7/30/9074865/cecil-lion-palmer-mob-justice

[spurraider21]

Ignorance of the law isn't a defense.

How many times do you have to be told that?
that depends, there are exceptions to that in US law (lambert v california)... but i can't pretend to be familiar with zimbabwean law

that particular defense wouldn't even apply in this case, but just pointing out the fact that there can be exceptions to your blanket statement

[boutons_deux]

Beyond Cecil the Lion: The Grisly and Unethical World of Wildlife Killing Contests

Across America, wildlife-killing contests (WKCs) — multi-day gun events that often award prizes to the person who kills the most — are increasing in number and scope.

More than 250 (https://www.facebook.com/WildEarthGuardians/posts/1036652379681123) WKCs happened last year alone.

The events are legal in every state except California, which became the first state to ban (https://www.thedodo.com/california-ban-hunting-contest-857764555.html) wildlife-killing contests in December.

The most targeted species is the coyote, but WKCs target a wide range of species: Wolves, bobcats, badgers, foxes, skunks, prairie dogs and birds are all in the crosshairs.

"Each of these species is a key part of healthy, functioning ecosystems," asserts the Center for Biological Diversity (CBD).

"Killing contests devalue native wildlife and glorify wasteful killing, while disrupting natural processes … [WKCs] ignore the ecological value of their target species and can actually exacerbate conflicts with livestock.

Peer-reviewed studies on coyotes and wolves demonstrate this result (http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2014/wildlife-killing-contests-12-18-2014.html)."

http://www.alternet.org/environment/beyond-cecil-lion-grisly-and-unethical-world-wildlife-killing-contests

"sportsmen" promoting wildlife conservation becaus they love and respect wildlife with all the Christian hearts! :lol

[TheSanityAnnex]

Beyond Cecil the Lion: The Grisly and Unethical World of Wildlife Killing Contests

Across America, wildlife-killing contests (WKCs) — multi-day gun events that often award prizes to the person who kills the most — are increasing in number and scope.

More than 250 (https://www.facebook.com/WildEarthGuardians/posts/1036652379681123) WKCs happened last year alone.

The events are legal in every state except California, which became the first state to ban (https://www.thedodo.com/california-ban-hunting-contest-857764555.html) wildlife-killing contests in December.

The most targeted species is the coyote, but WKCs target a wide range of species: Wolves, bobcats, badgers, foxes, skunks, prairie dogs and birds are all in the crosshairs.

"Each of these species is a key part of healthy, functioning ecosystems," asserts the Center for Biological Diversity (CBD).

"Killing contests devalue native wildlife and glorify wasteful killing, while disrupting natural processes … [WKCs] ignore the ecological value of their target species and can actually exacerbate conflicts with livestock.

Peer-reviewed studies on coyotes and wolves demonstrate this result (http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2014/wildlife-killing-contests-12-18-2014.html)."

http://www.alternet.org/environment/beyond-cecil-lion-grisly-and-unethical-world-wildlife-killing-contests

"sportsmen" promoting wildlife conservation becaus they love and respect wildlife with all the Christian hearts! :lol




Am I correct in assuming you own a farm and personally slaughter all of the meat you consume?

[CosmicCowboy]

https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11822462_10205512139177808_4419717473192238985_n.j pg?oh=3d04a25bafd964e754b26299c78d9fda&oe=563AF825

[Wild Cobra]

Well, it appears to me that Zimbabwe isn't upset about our hunter at all. It appears activists created all this outrage, and it's fake.

They have ruined a man. I think these activists are the evil people.

[ChumpDumper]

lol appears

[Clipper Nation]

Did all those Americans signing petitions understand that lions actually kill people? That all the talk about Cecil being “beloved” or a “local favorite” was media hype? Did Jimmy Kimmel choke up (http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/jimmy-kimmel-emotional-talking-cecil-lion/story?id=32756225) because Cecil was murdered or because he confused him with Simba from “The Lion King”?

In my village in Zimbabwe, surrounded by wildlife conservation areas, no lion has ever been beloved, or granted an affectionate nickname. They are objects of terror.... When the lion was finally killed, no one cared whether its murderer was a local person or a white trophy hunter, whether it was poached or killed legally. We danced and sang about the vanquishing of the fearsome beast and our escape from serious harm.

The killing of Cecil hasn’t garnered much more sympathy from urban Zimbabweans, although they live with no such danger. Few have ever seen a lion, since game drives are a luxury residents of a country with an average monthly income below $150 cannot afford.

Don’t misunderstand me: For Zimbabweans, wild animals have near-mystical significance. We belong to clans, and each clan claims an animal totem as its mythological ancestor. Mine is Nzou, elephant, and by tradition, I can’t eat elephant meat; it would be akin to eating a relative’s flesh. But our respect for these animals has never kept us from hunting them or allowing them to be hunted.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/05/opinion/in-zimbabwe-we-dont-cry-for-lions.html

[TheSanityAnnex]

:lol "And Americans who can’t find Zimbabwe on a map are applauding the nation’s demand for the extradition of the dentist, unaware that a baby elephant was reportedly slaughtered for our president’s most recent birthday banquet." :lol

[DarrinS]

Shit Cecil probably did at one time


http://youtu.be/ikMKzpmi-Dw

[TheSanityAnnex]

:lol


Why have the guides been charged and not the dentist?


Are you an expert on how the Zimbabwe legal system functions when charging non-citizen poachers who have fled the country? Or statute of limitations on charging a crime in Zimbabwe? You realize it's only been 5 days since they found out what happened? Do you have inside sources informing you that he has not been charged, or won't be?http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-dentist-walter-palmer-wont-be-charged-cecil-lion-n442931

An American dentist who killed a prized Zimbabwean lion named Cecil will not be charged because he had obtained the legal authority to slay the animal, a minister in the country reportedly said Monday.
Walter Palmer, a 55-year-old dentist from Minnesota, sparked global outrage (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/walter-palmer-dentist-who-killed-cecil-lion-returns-work-n423226)in July after he allegedly paid $50,000 to use a bow to hunt the animal — a tourist favorite and the subject of an Oxford University study.


But on Monday, Environment Minister Oppah Muchinguri-Kashiri told reporters, including Reuters, that Palmer's hunting papers were all in order and therefore he would not be charged.

"We approached the police and then the Prosecutor General, and it turned out that Palmer came to Zimbabwe because all the papers were in order," she said, according to the news agency.

Muchinguri Kashiri said Palmer was free to visit Zimbabwe as a tourist, but not as a hunter, Reuters said, implying he would not be issued the permits a hunter needs.


Zimbabwean officials had previously suggested (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/cecil-lions-killer-should-be-extradited-zimbabwe-minister-n401526) they would seek Palmer's extradition over the killing.


Zimbabwean professional hunter Theo Bronkhorst is charged with breaching hunting rules during the hunt, in which Cecil was reportedly lured out of the Hwange National Park using bait. He and a game park owner, who has been charged with allowing the hunt, deny the charges.

[TheSanityAnnex]

All the :cry over Cecil is going to get 200 more Cecil's killed. Nice job!

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/world/zimbabwe-park-warns-it-may-shoot-200-surplus-lions-now-that-big-game-hunters-are-staying-home (http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/world/zimbabwe-park-warns-it-may-shoot-200-surplus-lions-now-that-big-game-hunters-are-staying-home)



BUBYE VALLEY CONSERVANCY, Zimbabwe — It is the country where Cecil the lion was killed, sparking international anger against the American dentist who shot him.

The outcry over Walter Palmer’s killing of Cecil drove other big-game hunters away from Zimbabwe, fearful they too would attract the ire of the public.

But in what is being described as a side effect of the affair, Zimbabwe’s largest wildlife area says it now finds itself suffering from an overpopulation of lions.

Bubye Valley Conservancy has more than 500 lions, the largest number in Zimbabwe’s diminishing wildlife areas.

It has warned that its lion population has become unsustainable and that it may even have to cull around 200 as a result of what is being called “the Cecil effect.”
Now Bubye is appealing for other institutions or wildlife sanctuaries to take some of its lions.



Conservationists estimate about half of Zimbabwe’s wildlife has disappeared since President Robert Mugabe’s seizure of white-owned land began in 2000, but Bubye has held on by attracting wealthy hunters whose fees support its wildlife work.

But last year’s shooting of Cecil, in a conservancy bordering Hwange National Park, sparked a huge backlash against big-game hunting, and bolstered a U.S. plan to ban trophy hunting imports.

Plummeting oil prices have further led to a drop in the number of visitors from U.S. states such as Texas, from where traditionally large numbers of hunters go to Zimbabwe.
Bubye’s lions are decimating populations of antelope, along with other animals such as giraffe, cheetah, leopards and wild dogs, after the driest summer on record kept grasses low and made the small game easy targets.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Will a quote from the actual conservation trump your source?
Yeah "as bad as trophy hunting can be" implies it's a problem. The article never said it's "the" problem. That was all you.

you have reading comp issues, tbh.
http://bubyevalleyconservancy.com/conservation/



But what do you do with excess lions? There is no space left in Africa for them; everywhere that can have lions already does, and their greatest threat is habitat destruction and intolerance by local communities that encroach on wildlife areas in competition for grazing with the natural prey of lions, and subsequently persecute them in retaliation for killing livestock. And, despite the sensation, responsible trophy hunting cannot significantly affect lion population density or long-term persistence – which is really the definition of sustainable resource management.

[Blake]

Poor hunters need a hero.


https://redmalehummingbird.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/tumblr_static_white_knight.jpg

[TheSanityAnnex]

Poor hunters need a hero.

That'd be a cute avatar for you. As the King of white knights i have to ask you....at this point do you abandon white knighting for Cecil and start white knighting for all of the antelope, cheetahs, giraffes, leopards and wild dogs Cecil's brothers are decimating?

[spurraider21]

how did they suddenly get so overpopulated in a span of what, 7 months?

[Blake]

I'm not white knighting for Cecil or anyone. Nice rubber glue attempt tho.

How about you let Zimbabwe decide which lions to kill

[TheSanityAnnex]

Where's the rest of the extradition and poaching expert crew? :lol

[TheSanityAnnex]

I'm not white knighting for Cecil or anyone. Nice rubber glue attempt tho.

How about you let Zimbabwe decide which lions to kill
Zimbabwe will now be paying hunters to kill the lions instead of being paid by the hunters to kill the lions :lol And I'm not laughing at lions being killed I'm laughing at what all the ill informed liberal feels have caused.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Unless his guides gave him a fake hunting license or something then he is every bit as culpable as those guides. If he didn't obtain a license to hunt the lion then it is what it is. Poaching.
Lol

[TheSanityAnnex]

It's all the same thing.

You need to explain how it wouldn't work that way.

It all comes down to using ignorance of the law as a defense -- I dare you to try it next time you get a ticket.
Lol

[ChumpDumper]

LolHunting = legal

Poaching = illegal

Which part are you having trouble with? Let me know.

And you are laughing at killing. It's what you do.

[spurraider21]

And you are laughing at killing. It's what you do.


And I'm not laughing at lions being killed I'm laughing at what all the ill informed liberal feels have caused.

...

but if you're going to stand by the "he's laughing at killing" thing, then i guess this is you laughing at killings


:lol

[ChumpDumper]

...

but if you're going to stand by the "he's laughing at killing" thing, then i guess this is you laughing at killingsNope. Sorry, counselor. This is TSA's MO.

[spurraider21]

i guess you know the inner workings of TSA's mind better than he does

[ChumpDumper]

i guess you know the inner workings of TSA's mind better than he doesI know when he's full of shit, just like when you are trying to represent him, counselor.

[ChumpDumper]

TSA is only against the killing of white "conservative" male humans.

[spurraider21]

I know when he's full of shit, just like when you are trying to represent him, counselor.
why do you keep calling me counselor? is this another version of "david" or "tough guy"?

[ChumpDumper]

why do you keep calling me counselor? is this another version of "david" or "tough guy"?Why do you think I call you counselor, tough guy?

[spurraider21]

Why do you think I call you counselor, tough guy?
Delusions?

[ChumpDumper]

Delusions?Your delusions?

Probably.

[spurraider21]

Your delusions?

Probably.
You call me counselor because of my delusions? That doesn't make sense. I think you confirmed my suspicions, though.

[ChumpDumper]

You call me counselor because of my delusions?Sure it does. Think about it.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Hunting = legal

Poaching = illegal

Which part are you having trouble with? Let me know. Was Palmer hunting or poaching?




And you are laughing at killing. It's what you do.No I'm laughing at the irony that bleeding heart liberals like yourself caused.

[ChumpDumper]

Was Palmer hunting or poaching?Poaching.




No I'm laughing at the irony that bleeding heart liberals like yourself caused.Nah, unless it's a white "conservative" male, you're pretty much pro killing.

Why would they suspend hunting in the first place? It's the poaching that is illegal.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Poaching. Environment Minister Oppah Muchinguri-Kashiri disagrees with you and said no charges will be brought. And the US didn't charge Palmer either as you hoped for, wonder why.




Nah, unless it's a white "conservative" male, you're pretty much pro killing.Comparing humans to animals crofl


Why would they suspend hunting in the first place? It's the poaching that is illegal. http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/world/zimbabwe-park-warns-it-may-shoot-200-surplus-lions-now-that-big-game-hunters-are-staying-home



BUBYE VALLEY CONSERVANCY, Zimbabwe — It is the country where Cecil the lion was killed, sparking international anger against the American dentist who shot him.

The outcry over Walter Palmer’s killing of Cecil drove other big-game hunters away from Zimbabwe, fearful they too would attract the ire of the public.

But in what is being described as a side effect of the affair, Zimbabwe’s largest wildlife area says it now finds itself suffering from an overpopulation of lions.

Bubye Valley Conservancy has more than 500 lions, the largest number in Zimbabwe’s diminishing wildlife areas.

It has warned that its lion population has become unsustainable and that it may even have to cull around 200 as a result of what is being called “the Cecil effect.”
Now Bubye is appealing for other institutions or wildlife sanctuaries to take some of its lions.

[ChumpDumper]

Environment Minister Oppah Muchinguri-Kashiri disagrees with you and said no charges will be brought. And the US didn't charge Palmer either as you hoped for, wonder why.There are myriad reasons why charges are not brought for any given case.




Comparing humans to animals croflYou do that quite a bit in the animals and humans you enjoy seeing killed.


http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/world/zimbabwe-park-warns-it-may-shoot-200-surplus-lions-now-that-big-game-hunters-are-staying-home



BUBYE VALLEY CONSERVANCY, Zimbabwe — It is the country where Cecil the lion was killed, sparking international anger against the American dentist who shot him.

The outcry over Walter Palmer’s killing of Cecil drove other big-game hunters away from Zimbabwe, fearful they too would attract the ire of the public.

But in what is being described as a side effect of the affair, Zimbabwe’s largest wildlife area says it now finds itself suffering from an overpopulation of lions.

Bubye Valley Conservancy has more than 500 lions, the largest number in Zimbabwe’s diminishing wildlife areas.

It has warned that its lion population has become unsustainable and that it may even have to cull around 200 as a result of what is being called “the Cecil effect.”
Now Bubye is appealing for other institutions or wildlife sanctuaries to take some of its lions.So lions are going to be dead either way. If the "big game hunters" like suburban dentist man actually hunted lion, there wouldn't have bee such an uproar.

[TheSanityAnnex]

There are myriad reasons why charges are not brought for any given case.



You do that quite a bit in the animals and humans you enjoy seeing killed.

So lions are going to be dead either way. If the "big game hunters" like suburban dentist man actually hunted lion, there wouldn't have bee such an uproar.He did nothing illegal, in fact he claims he didn't even do the killing.

"But on Monday she told reporters in Harare that Palmer can now safely return to Zimbabwe as a "tourist" because he had not broken the southern African country's hunting laws. She said the police and the National Prosecuting Authority had cleared Palmer of wrongdoing.

Palmer has long maintained he was hunting legally and said he was stunned when he found out someone in his hunting party killed Cecil"

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/10/12/report-zimbabwe-not-charge-walter-palmer-cecil-lion-killing/73811010/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/10/12/report-zimbabwe-not-charge-walter-palmer-cecil-lion-killing/73811010/)


How does it feel to be responsible for the decimation of giraffes, leopards, cheetahs, wild dogs, antelopes and an additional 200 lions?

[ChumpDumper]

He did nothing illegal, in fact he claims he didn't even do the killing.

"But on Monday she told reporters in Harare that Palmer can now safely return to Zimbabwe as a "tourist" because he had not broken the southern African country's hunting laws. She said the police and the National Prosecuting Authority had cleared Palmer of wrongdoing.

Palmer has long maintained he was hunting legally and said he was stunned when he found out someone in his hunting party killed Cecil"

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/10/12/report-zimbabwe-not-charge-walter-palmer-cecil-lion-killing/73811010/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/10/12/report-zimbabwe-not-charge-walter-palmer-cecil-lion-killing/73811010/)


How does it feel to be responsible for the decimation of giraffes, leopards, cheetahs, wild dogs, antelopes and an additional 200 lions?Yeah, I'm responsible.

lol decimation.

lol "someone else shot him!"

You're really loving all the death you're trying to portray here. It's a pattern with you.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Yeah, I'm responsible.

lol decimation.

lol "someone else shot him!"

You're really loving all the death you're trying to portray here. It's a pattern with you.

What part of he had not broken South African country hunting laws and cleared of wrongdoing are you having trouble comprehending?

And yes, you and the rest of the bleeding hearts are directly responsible for culling of said lions.

[ChumpDumper]

What part of he had not broken South African country hunting laws and cleared of wrongdoing are you having trouble comprehending?Eh, it's Zimbabwe. If you are a great believer in their government and legal system, that's kind of expected of you.


And yes, you and the rest of the bleeding hearts are directly responsible for culling of said lions.Which were going to be killed anyway by dentists. What is the difference?

[TheSanityAnnex]

Eh, it's Zimbabwe. If you are a great believer in their government and legal system, that's kind of expected of you. No charges were brought by our government either. You were wrong just move on.


Which were going to be killed anyway by dentists. What is the difference? The difference is the population became unsustainable and decimated many other species. Shame on you.

[ChumpDumper]

No charges were brought by our government either. You were wrong just move on.I never said he would be brought up on charges.


:cheer death!lol decimated.

[SpursforSix]

Was Palmer hunting or poaching?



Palmer you say...

I used to date his sister, Rosie.

[TheSanityAnnex]

I think charges will be fairly simple to come up with, but I also think if the US finds some way to prosecute him, he won't be extradited.

It was actually your baby bro who said he'd be charged.




Rofl do you really think the dentist won't be charged? Either here or there, he'll be charged somehow.

[Blake]

Honestly, I'm not sure authorities have a strong case, but public outcry being what it is, I think they'll find something to get him on.

I thought wrong. You should make yourself a trophy for this rare victory.

[ChumpDumper]

It was actually your baby bro who said he'd be charged.You were wrong just move on.

[TheSanityAnnex]

You were wrong just move on.On what counts?

[ChumpDumper]

On what counts?You thought it was me, genius. You may now be snarky about being wrong.

[TheSanityAnnex]

You thought it was me, genius. You may now be snarky about being wrong.

You two bitches are interchangeable.

How will you sleep knowing you and your feels led to so much unnecessary animal death in Zimbabwe?

[ChumpDumper]

You two bitches are interchangeable.

How will you sleep knowing you and your feels led to so much unnecessary animal death in Zimbabwe?Snark Level: Teen Girl

[spurraider21]

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[Chris]

I hope it was slow.