Will there ever be a big man as good as KAJ?

[SuperCam]

Nig enters as legend in the NY pickup ball scene :tu

Enrolls at UCLA but because of fucked white man rules can't play on varsity his freshman year. Leads his JV team to victory over varsity squad that won national title :tu

Wins three national championships in a row, 3x college player of the year, 88 game winning streak, only losing two games total, one of which was coming back off eye injury. So dominant, the dunk shot was banned because of him. :tu

Comes in immediately to shit milwaukee with past his prime Oscar robertson, lands on 2nd team all league, and in second year drags the team to a nba title sweep. :tu

Still the Bucks franchise leading scorer despite playing there only six seasons. :tu

10 times NBA all first time and 5 times all second team. :tu

11 all nba defensive teams :tu

19x nba all star! Even at age 41, wow :tu

Been multiple time NBA leading scorer, rebounder, and blocking champion :tu

6 rings, including a repeat :tu

6x league MVP :tu

All time leading scorer despite having made only one 3 :tu :tu :tu


No one ever gonna touch this legend's big man status. Only one close is Wilt

[JohnnyMax]

#7) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Weaknesses: Kareem had to have a dominating point guard in order to succeed. In Milwaukee, he had Oscar Robertson. when Robertson retired, they went from the NBA finals to a losing record (1974-75). The next year, Jabbar went to L.A, where he posted another losing record, playing with hall of fame guard Gail Goodrich (1975-76). His Lakers underachieved, even though he played with Norm Nixon, until Magic Johnson joined the team and made them great (1979-80). Jabbar was a major player on those teams, but without Magic, they aren't a contender. That is the biggest reason he is #7. If you draw names from a hat, what are the chances of getting Oscar or Magic? Anything less and Kareem's team will struggle. Furthermore, he was an underachieving rebounder when compared to guys like Wilt, Russell, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Nate Thurmond. Wilt led the league in rebounding at the age of 36. Kareem wasn't even the best on his own team at that age, averaging less than 8 per game.

http://airjudden2.tripod.com/jordan/rank.htm

http://i.imgur.com/gsx6ZzB.png

[SuperCam]

#7) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Weaknesses: Kareem had to have a dominating point guard in order to succeed. In Milwaukee, he had Oscar Robertson. when Robertson retired, they went from the NBA finals to a losing record. The next year, Jabbar went to L.A, where he posted another losing record, playing with hall of fame guard Gail Goodrich. His Lakers underachieved, even though he played with Norm Nixon, until Magic Johnson joined the team and made them great. Jabbar was a major player on those teams, but without Magic, they aren't a contender. That is the biggest reason he is #7. If you draw names from a hat, what are the chances of getting Oscar or Magic? Anything less and Kareem's team will struggle. Furthermore, he was an underachieving rebounder when compared to guys like Wilt, Russell, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Nate Thurmond. Wilt led the league in rebounding at the age of 36. Kareem wasn't even the best on his own team at that age, averaging less than 8 per game.

http://airjudden2.tripod.com/jordan/rank.htm

losing season right after his 2nd corneal injury.


MVP his first two seasons in LA, pre-Earvin :tu :tu :tu

[Killakobe81]

One of the most slept on GOAT candidates ever. He basically did for the Bucks what Duncan did for the Spurs ...before he moved to the big city. when you factor NCAA success no not even Russell has a better resume of individual brilliance + team success ...

[SuperCam]

Most impressive part about his longevity is he did this in the 70s and 80s when sports health medicine understanding was shit.



Imagine how much longer he could have played at a high level with modern athletic diets, treatments, minute restrictions and limitations, etc. Could have easily made a few more all star seasons in his 40s :wow

[SpursforSix]

One of the most slept on GOAT candidates ever. He basically did for the Bucks what Duncan did for the Spurs ...before he moved to the big city. when you factor NCAA success no not even Russell has a better resume of individual brilliance + team success ...

He was great. I think most people overlook him because when the NBA started getting major coverage, he was on Primetime with all of the other stars. The truth is that he could have played on any team in that era's NBA and made them a strong playoff contender. He was Duncan except a few inches taller. And he was doing what he did against other true dominant centers. He'd have a field day if he were in the league today.

[JoeTait75]

He was great. I think most people overlook him because when the NBA started getting major coverage, he was on Primetime with all of the other stars.

I think KAJ's biggest problem in terms of his legacy is that he just wasn't very well-liked by the media, by his peers or by the fans.

[Killakobe81]

I think KAJ's biggest problem in terms of his legacy is that he just wasn't very well-liked by the media, by his peers or by the fans.

This. Not media friendly or savvy but highly intelligent. I read two of his books a very insightful man.

[SpursforSix]

I think KAJ's biggest problem in terms of his legacy is that he just wasn't very well-liked by the media, by his peers or by the fans.

That's a good point and certainly part of it. With the limited amount of screen time back then, he came across as very aloof. With today's over saturation of media, I think he'd fare better and be recognized as a the cerebral dude he was and not an asshole. I think had Tim played in that era, he'd have come across very much like KAJ did.

[Mitch]

Closest big after him was Shaq and he doesn't quite measure up.

[Killakobe81]

That's a good point and certainly part of it. With the limited amount of screen time back then, he came across as very aloof. With today's over saturation of media, I think he'd fare better and be recognized as a the cerebral dude he was and not an asshole. I think had Tim played in that era, he'd have come across very much like KAJ did.

Great points. I think there are similarities there with the way the two have played at a high level at an advanced age and the fact that neither are attention whores.
The difference is although Tim doesnt love the media he does his obligations as a professional Kareem was really leery of the media because not only had he been burned he also hit the spotlight in the aftermath of the Civil rights movement ... not only does Duncan get the benefit of a different era of media, social and racial tensions have softened a great deal for celebrity athletes ...

Kareem was a outspoken negro in a time when that was not appreciated ... even ali suffered some for it ...

[BD24]

I agree with OP. Have KAJ #2 on my all time list only behind Jordan tbh. He's got rings, individual accolades, an amazing peak, and ridiculous longevity. Only big I have ahead of Duncan on my all time list. Wilt and Bill were great, but they played in such a different era I have trouble putting them up so high.

[Spurtacular]

KAJ is the beneficiary of playing in arguably the sh**iest era of basketball in his prime (70's).

[ambchang]

#7) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Weaknesses: Kareem had to have a dominating point guard in order to succeed. In Milwaukee, he had Oscar Robertson. when Robertson retired, they went from the NBA finals to a losing record (1974-75). The next year, Jabbar went to L.A, where he posted another losing record, playing with hall of fame guard Gail Goodrich (1975-76). His Lakers underachieved, even though he played with Norm Nixon, until Magic Johnson joined the team and made them great (1979-80). Jabbar was a major player on those teams, but without Magic, they aren't a contender. That is the biggest reason he is #7. If you draw names from a hat, what are the chances of getting Oscar or Magic? Anything less and Kareem's team will struggle. Furthermore, he was an underachieving rebounder when compared to guys like Wilt, Russell, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Nate Thurmond. Wilt led the league in rebounding at the age of 36. Kareem wasn't even the best on his own team at that age, averaging less than 8 per game.

http://airjudden2.tripod.com/jordan/rank.htm

http://i.imgur.com/gsx6ZzB.png

Ahhhh.... airjudden, one of the legends of basketball forum trolling. She (yes, she) spawned a legion of Jordan haters, and used amazing logic to regulate Jordan fanbois back in the day.

Funny thing is, during her retirement, she revealed the entire story of how she is actually a Jordan fan, and used the entire exercise to shout down irrational Jordan fans.

Back to the subject, KAJ was undoubtedly one of the GOATS. His longevity was amazing, and his peak was as good as anyone. There are some blackmarks on his resume though:
1) Missing the playoffs two years in a row, on two different teams with entirely different rosters, during his prime, in one of the weakest eras in NBA basketball
2) Having no real competition in his prime. Cowens? Issel? The best he went up against was an ancient Wilt and Willis Reed
3) Really being exposed vs. physical centers. Moses had his number (though Kareem was no longer at the peak of his prime), Hakeem thoroughly embarrassed him (KAJ was even more out of prime at that point).
4) Only winning 2 of the 6 FMVPs he could have gotten.

That said, his accomplishments, both individually and team-wise, both college and NBA, is unmatched. Only Jordan can match or come close to his 6 rings, 6 MVPs, scoring prowess, All-NBA and All-D team selections, etc ...

I have him as my #2 of all time, but am comfortable with people putting him at #1 all time, and since Kareem, the only big even remotely approaching his accomplishment was Duncan, and Duncan wasn't nearly as dominant as KAJ in his prime.

[Killakobe81]

Ahhhh.... airjudden, one of the legends of basketball forum trolling. She (yes, she) spawned a legion of Jordan haters, and used amazing logic to regulate Jordan fanbois back in the day.

Funny thing is, during her retirement, she revealed the entire story of how she is actually a Jordan fan, and used the entire exercise to shout down irrational Jordan fans.

Back to the subject, KAJ was undoubtedly one of the GOATS. His longevity was amazing, and his peak was as good as anyone. There are some blackmarks on his resume though:
1) Missing the playoffs two years in a row, on two different teams with entirely different rosters, during his prime, in one of the weakest eras in NBA basketball
2) Having no real competition in his prime. Cowens? Issel? The best he went up against was an ancient Wilt and Willis Reed
3) Really being exposed vs. physical centers. Moses had his number (though Kareem was no longer at the peak of his prime), Hakeem thoroughly embarrassed him (KAJ was even more out of prime at that point).
4) Only winning 2 of the 6 FMVPs he could have gotten.

That said, his accomplishments, both individually and team-wise, both college and NBA, is unmatched. Only Jordan can match or come close to his 6 rings, 6 MVPs, scoring prowess, All-NBA and All-D team selections, etc ...

I have him as my #2 of all time, but am comfortable with people putting him at #1 all time, and since Kareem, the only big even remotely approaching his accomplishment was Duncan, and Duncan wasn't nearly as dominant as KAJ in his prime.

Great points all-around ....

[BD24]

Ahhhh.... airjudden, one of the legends of basketball forum trolling. She (yes, she) spawned a legion of Jordan haters, and used amazing logic to regulate Jordan fanbois back in the day.

Funny thing is, during her retirement, she revealed the entire story of how she is actually a Jordan fan, and used the entire exercise to shout down irrational Jordan fans.

Back to the subject, KAJ was undoubtedly one of the GOATS. His longevity was amazing, and his peak was as good as anyone. There are some blackmarks on his resume though:
1) Missing the playoffs two years in a row, on two different teams with entirely different rosters, during his prime, in one of the weakest eras in NBA basketball
2) Having no real competition in his prime. Cowens? Issel? The best he went up against was an ancient Wilt and Willis Reed
3) Really being exposed vs. physical centers. Moses had his number (though Kareem was no longer at the peak of his prime), Hakeem thoroughly embarrassed him (KAJ was even more out of prime at that point).
4) Only winning 2 of the 6 FMVPs he could have gotten.

That said, his accomplishments, both individually and team-wise, both college and NBA, is unmatched. Only Jordan can match or come close to his 6 rings, 6 MVPs, scoring prowess, All-NBA and All-D team selections, etc ...

I have him as my #2 of all time, but am comfortable with people putting him at #1 all time, and since Kareem, the only big even remotely approaching his accomplishment was Duncan, and Duncan wasn't nearly as dominant as KAJ in his prime.
Couldn't agree more. :toast

[Arcadian]

Ahhhh.... airjudden, one of the legends of basketball forum trolling. She (yes, she) spawned a legion of Jordan haters, and used amazing logic to regulate Jordan fanbois back in the day.

Funny thing is, during her retirement, she revealed the entire story of how she is actually a Jordan fan, and used the entire exercise to shout down irrational Jordan fans.

Back to the subject, KAJ was undoubtedly one of the GOATS. His longevity was amazing, and his peak was as good as anyone. There are some blackmarks on his resume though:
1) Missing the playoffs two years in a row, on two different teams with entirely different rosters, during his prime, in one of the weakest eras in NBA basketball
2) Having no real competition in his prime. Cowens? Issel? The best he went up against was an ancient Wilt and Willis Reed
3) Really being exposed vs. physical centers. Moses had his number (though Kareem was no longer at the peak of his prime), Hakeem thoroughly embarrassed him (KAJ was even more out of prime at that point).
4) Only winning 2 of the 6 FMVPs he could have gotten.

That said, his accomplishments, both individually and team-wise, both college and NBA, is unmatched. Only Jordan can match or come close to his 6 rings, 6 MVPs, scoring prowess, All-NBA and All-D team selections, etc ...

I have him as my #2 of all time, but am comfortable with people putting him at #1 all time, and since Kareem, the only big even remotely approaching his accomplishment was Duncan, and Duncan wasn't nearly as dominant as KAJ in his prime.

Who's number 1?

[Buddy Mignon]

KAJ is the beneficiary of playing in arguably the sh**iest era of basketball in his prime (70's).

Kareem shits on Jim in any era.

[ambchang]

Who's number 1?

I'd have to go with Jordan. It's tough for me to choose.

Ask me in a few years, months, years or even days, and I may have KAJ, Bird or Magic there. It's really tough to choose.

THat's why I really like Simmon's pyramid concept.