Prime Paul Pierce or current James Harden?

[313]

To build your team around? :wakeup

[djohn2oo8]

Harden. Prime Pierce struggled in the East until KG and Allen.

[Silver&Black]

Harden. Prime Pierce struggled in the East until KG and Allen.

No shit he struggled. Did you see Prime Pierce's teammates? Antoine Walker....................

Put current Harden on that same exact team...and he struggles also.

[Mitch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx1oMrrzPPs

[djohn2oo8]

No shit he struggled. Did you see Prime Pierce's teammates? Antoine Walker....................

Put current Harden on that same exact team...and he struggles also.

The East was probably the worst it's been ever in Pierce's Prime.

[Buddy Mignon]

Harden puts up a lot of empty stats. Pierce was more of a complete player.

[313]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx1oMrrzPPs

It happens

[djohn2oo8]

Harden puts up a lot of empty stats. Pierce was more of a complete player.

His stats led to the two seed without Howard and Bev most of the season.

[Silver&Black]

The East was probably the worst it's been ever in Pierce's Prime.

And?????

I noticed that you didn't say that Harden would succeed on the same exact team that Prime Pierce played for. Because he wouldn't have either....

Without googling it...name me those centers that Pierce had. How about his point guards?

[Buddy Mignon]

His stats led to the two seed without Howard and Bev most of the season.

Pierce was a feared player with the game on the line... and still is to some degree. No one fears Harden in crunch time. That's my point.

[djohn2oo8]

Pierce was a feared player with the game on the line... and still is to some degree. No one fears Harden in crunch time. That's my point.

Actually Harden was rated as one of the top players in clutch time. Much better than Kobe

[Buddy Mignon]

Actually Harden was rated as one of the top players in clutch time. Much better than Kobe

Its not a coach in the annals of history that would draw up a play for Harden while Kobe is on the same team.

[Raven]

Pierce and it's not close.

[Buddy Mignon]

Pierce and it's not close.

[baseline bum]

I don't know man, people have too much fucking nostalgia for old players. Prime Pierce vs Prime Harden is a pretty tough call.

[djohn2oo8]

Its not a coach in the annals of history that would draw up a play for Harden while Kobe is on the same team.

https://i.imgur.com/XLZ7eEy.jpg

They should

[benefactor]

Pierce and it's not close.

[Double-Up]

Harden puts up a lot of empty stats. Pierce was more of a complete player.

Same could be said of Kobe.

[Double-Up]

I don't know man, people have too much fucking nostalgia for old players. Prime Pierce vs Prime Harden is a pretty tough call.

Exactly...similar players in many ways.

[daslicer]

Pierce led the Celtics to the ECF back when he had Walker as a sidekick so I have to give him the edge. He also came up big a lot of times in the playoffs before he played with KG and Ray Allen. Harden has been pretty shitty during the playoffs the last few years since he has left OKC.

[313]

I don't know man, people have too much fucking nostalgia for old players. Prime Pierce vs Prime Harden is a pretty tough call.

Yeah, I like Pierce a lot more than Harden but when you look at it objectively. Harden just carried a decent Rockets team to a conference finals in a much tougher conference than Pierce did in 02.

[Robz4000]

Pierce and it's not close.

[The Reckoning]

https://i.imgur.com/XLZ7eEy.jpg

They should


k:lolbe

[Buddy Mignon]

I think a better comparison would be Gilbert Arenas and Harden.

[AlexJones]

I think a better comparison would be Gilbert Arenas and Harden.
lol not even close. Harden's already surpassed Gilbert in every facet of the game

[m>s]

Pierce because of clutchness and intangibles

[Buddy Mignon]

lol not even close. Harden's already surpassed Gilbert in every facet of the game

Damn there identical.
Per 36 Minutes

Glossary · SHARE · Embed · CSV · Export · PRE · LINK (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=hardeja01&p2=arenagi01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=#per_minute::none) · ?



Rk
Player
From
To
G
GS
MP
FG
FGA
FG%
3P
3PA
3P%
2P
2PA
2P%
FT
FTA
FT%
ORB
DRB
TRB
AST
STL
BLK
TOV
PF
PTS


1
Gilbert Arenas (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/arenagi01.html)
2002
2012
552
455
19351
6.9
16.5
.421
2.0
5.7
.351
4.9
10.7
.458
5.4
6.7
.803
0.8
3.2
4.0
5.4
1.6
0.2
3.2
3.1
21.2


2
James Harden (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hardeja01.html)
2010
2015
452
239
14616
6.5
14.5
.444
2.2
5.9
.370
4.3
8.7
.494
6.8
8.0
.854
0.8
4.0
4.8
4.9
1.6
0.5
3.0
2.8
21.9

[Mikeanaro]

Paul Pierce and Arenas over facial pubes.

[Mitch]

It happens

Not when your team is facing elimination.

[djohn2oo8]

Damn there identical.
Per 36 Minutes

Glossary · SHARE · Embed · CSV · Export · PRE · LINK (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=hardeja01&p2=arenagi01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=#per_minute::none) · ?



Rk
Player
From
To
G
GS
MP
FG
FGA
FG%
3P
3PA
3P%
2P
2PA
2P%
FT
FTA
FT%
ORB
DRB
TRB
AST
STL
BLK
TOV
PF
PTS


1
Gilbert Arenas (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/arenagi01.html)
2002
2012
552
455
19351
6.9
16.5
.421
2.0
5.7
.351
4.9
10.7
.458
5.4
6.7
.803
0.8
3.2
4.0
5.4
1.6
0.2
3.2
3.1
21.2


2
James Harden (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hardeja01.html)
2010
2015
452
239
14616
6.5
14.5
.444
2.2
5.9
.370
4.3
8.7
.494
6.8
8.0
.854
0.8
4.0
4.8
4.9
1.6
0.5
3.0
2.8
21.9



You are using per 36 stats why? :lol

Even still, Hardens stats are still better than Arenas stats, with Harden being in the league 5 less years :lol

[HemisfairArena]

Argument is flawed,,,you say current Harden. I would still take Harden but he is only 25 and lets see what this cat does when he hits his prime like you have him going against Pierce's prime,,,,Harden is just starting to scratch the surface of what he can do,,,,

[Buddy Mignon]

You are using per 36 stats why? :lol

Even still, Hardens stats are still better than Arenas stats, with Harden being in the league 5 less years :lol

Oh my bad... I thought that's what you guys debated. I don't give a fuck about stats, tbh. You can't measure heart, will and determination. I pay close attention to players when the game gets serious in the last five minutes and Harden just don't measure up for me. If you notice... Harden's playoff shooting percentage takes a huge dip from his regular season percentage. Not so with Pierce, and Kobe's. I actually think Arenas and Harden is a toss up. Pierce is a 1st ballot HOF'er... Harden is still trying to come into his own.

[djohn2oo8]

Oh my bad... I thought that's what you guys debated. I don't give a fuck about stats, tbh. You can't measure heart, will and determination. I pay close attention to players when the game gets serious in the last five minutes and Harden just don't measure up for me. If you notice... Harden's playoff shooting percentage takes a huge dip from his regular season percentage. Not so with Pierce, and Kobe's. I actually think Arenas and Harden is a toss up. Pierce is a 1st ballot HOF'er... Harden is still trying to come into his own.
You just said you don't give a fuck about stats and then went right to Harden's shooting % :lol. Harden is only 25. Already a better creator than Kobe. And when you say will to win, does it count the times Kobe quit when his teams werent stacked?

[Buddy Mignon]

You just said you don't give a fuck about stats and then went right to Harden's shooting % :lol. Harden is only 25. Already a better creator than Kobe. And when you say will to win, does it count the times Kobe quit when his teams werent stacked?

From this point on I won't even mention Harden and Kobe in the same context. One nigga is known for choking and the other is a legend.

[djohn2oo8]

From this point on I won't even mention Harden and Kobe in the same context. One nigga is known for choking and the other is a legend.

Kobe is a legend for choking, you're right.

[The Franchise]

Harden is already better than Pierce ever was and he isn't even in his prime yet.

[HemisfairArena]

Harden is already better than Pierce ever was and he isn't even in his prime yet.


Agreed,,,,argument in a nutshell,,

[Killakobe81]

I don't know man, people have too much fucking nostalgia for old players. Prime Pierce vs Prime Harden is a pretty tough call.

Agreed hate Pierce but both are beasts ...

[Buddy Mignon]

This play is Pierce career in a nutshell.

9ehUsyxZIjc


This play is Harden's career in a nutshell.

OQHtaWgSWDM

[HemisfairArena]

Pierce has one 50 point game,,,Harden at age 25?,,,,well,,,

After recording a career-high 50 points against the Denver Nuggets on March 19,[38] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Harden#cite_note-38) Harden topped that mark with 51 points against the Sacramento Kings on April 1, making it his 33rd 30-point game and his ninth 40-point game for the season. He also became the first player in Rockets' franchise history to have two 50-point games in a season

[HemisfairArena]

Once again,,,,come back and talk to me when this kid hits his prime,,,he is already way better than Pierce at the age of 25,,,,,

[Killakobe81]

Pierce has one 50 point game,,,Harden at age 25?,,,,well,,,

After recording a career-high 50 points against the Denver Nuggets on March 19,[38] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Harden#cite_note-38) Harden topped that mark with 51 points against the Sacramento Kings on April 1, making it his 33rd 30-point game and his ninth 40-point game for the season. He also became the first player in Rockets' franchise history to have two 50-point games in a season

So now scoring binges is the criteria for who is better? Hmm .. Very interesting ...

[100%duncan]

Pierce was a nigga, and was respected defensively. He sometimes guarded the opposing teams best perimeter player. Don't know his defensive stats though. Harden is IMHO, far more skilled offensively even taking away his freethrows. Tough call really.

[Mark Celibate]

Harden is much closer to prime Wade tbh. Even though Pierce has joined a team of assholes known as the Clippers, he is still one of the NBA players I genuinely like and respect. Dude is tough as fuck and he is like a guard/forward version of Duncan in terms of fundamentals. The prime Pierce could score at will without taking 10+ free throws a game, while Harden is more like a glorified Ben Gorden, or a poor man's D-Whistle imho.

[Gent]

No shit he struggled. Did you see Prime Pierce's teammates? Antoine Walker....................

Put current Harden on that same exact team...and he struggles also.

I don't think that has any relevance. Whether you struggled on a bad team or not is not the point. You are taking each player and measuring each other head to head.

I have to say Harden.

Paul Pierce, while good didn't really made such a big impact by himself on his team. He put up OK numbers but wasn't pushing his team to the playoffs or even close to that.

Harden in the other hand made his mark. As a sixth man with the Thunder he was on par, or better than Manu. Made huge impact on the games. Now as a team first option he got even more productive. Guy puts up 25 to 30 points per.

And this is the West we're talking about. Where points and assists don't come easy.

[djohn2oo8]

So now scoring binges is the criteria for who is better? Hmm .. Very interesting ...

You have 81 in your moniker, killa. :lol

[Spurtacular]

Harden. Prime Pierce struggled in the East until KG and Allen.

Pierce never struggled against the East. The Pierce-Walker monster had the C's 2 games from a finals appearance. The Nets were a nightmare match-up for them though.

[Spurtacular]

Pierce was a nigga, and was respected defensively. He sometimes guarded the opposing teams best perimeter player. Don't know his defensive stats though. Harden is IMHO, far more skilled offensively even taking away his freethrows. Tough call really.

Pierce was a much better defender than Kobe. Yet, Kobe was always being awarded all defensive honors. F'ing Stern.

[Kool Bob Love]

I voted Paul but wish he had stay glued to Artest in 2010. Smh.

[Raven]

I don't think that has any relevance. Whether you struggled on a bad team or not is not the point. You are taking each player and measuring each other head to head.

I have to say Harden.

Paul Pierce, while good didn't really made such a big impact by himself on his team. He put up OK numbers but wasn't pushing his team to the playoffs or even close to that.

Harden in the other hand made his mark. As a sixth man with the Thunder he was on par, or better than Manu. Made huge impact on the games. Now as a team first option he got even more productive. Guy puts up 25 to 30 points per.

And this is the West we're talking about. Where points and assists don't come easy.

wow, that's a retarded take..

[313]

I voted Paul but wish he had stay glued to Artest in 2010. Smh.

Dale

[Chris]

Harden puts up a lot of empty stats. Pierce was more of a complete player.


Pierce and it's not close.

tbh

[Gent]

wow, that's a retarded take..

How about instead of trying to be a hard ass, you'd actually rebuke what a I said and then we'd discuss it like adults. Kids these days.

[Infinite_limit]

To build your team around? :wakeup
Current game: Offense


Pierce
- Defensive
- Clutch
- Captain


Harden has not eclipsed Pierce. Needs at-least 5 more seasons of current production

[Infinite_limit]

Sidenote:

So Pierce over McGrady/Carter?

[313]

Sidenote:

So Pierce over McGrady/Carter?

I'd take him over Carter. Not over McGrady if he would've stayed healthy in some alternate universe.

[Infinite_limit]

I'd take him over Carter. Not over McGrady if he would've stayed healthy in some alternate universe.
Pierce vs Manu

Close but Paul slightly

[Spurtacular]

Sidenote:

So Pierce over McGrady/Carter?

Absolutely. Pierce makes my top 5 midrange players of all-time.

[Spurtacular]

Pierce vs Manu

Close but Paul slightly

That's a tough one. It oscillated year to year, tbh.

[HemisfairArena]

Absolutely. Pierce makes my top 5 midrange players of all-time.

Name the other 4,,,,you got 2 minutes(google is your friend),,,,I bet you cant,,,I'll even spot you one with Ray Allen,,,,,

[Spurtacular]

Name the other 4,,,,you got 2 minutes(google is your friend),,,,I bet you cant,,,I'll even spot you one with Ray Allen,,,,,

1. Bird
2. K Malone
3. P Pierce
4. Dirk
5. B King
6. K Johnson
7. D Wade
8. V Johnson
9. R Hamilton
10. Marbury

[HemisfairArena]

1. Bird
2. K Malone
3. P Pierce
4. Dirk
5. B King
6. K Johnson
7. D Wade
8. V Johnson
9. R Hamilton
10. Marbury

11 minutes?,,,but ok,,,lets break your list down. You think Pierce is up there with Bird, Malone, Dirk, Allen, and Kobe(I noticed you didn't put Allen or Kobe) but both are better pure mid rangers than Pierce ever thought about,,,,

[Spurtacular]

11 minutes?,,,but ok,,,lets break your list down. You think Pierce is up there with Bird, Malone, Dirk, Allen, and Kobe(I noticed you didn't put Allen or Kobe) but both are better pure mid rangers than Pierce ever thought about,,,,

I'd put MJ on the list before Kobe or Allen.

Kobe warrants consideration; but he didn't even have a consistent mid range shot. Pierce's mid range shot was deadly. And he had it going strong for more years than Kobe did as well. Pierce was a player that would make 20 straight open 19-footers consistently. Kobe was nowhere near that level.

[313]

Pierce vs Manu

Close but Paul slightly

Tough but gotta go with Pierce for being more reliable from a durability standpoint.

[Infinite_limit]

Tough but gotta go with Pierce for being more reliable from a durability standpoint.
I think Non-Spur opinion would be Pierce carried a Franchise for 8 something years

While Manu was good/bad blessed with Timmay

[313]

I think Non-Spur opinion would be Pierce carried a Franchise for 8 something years

While Manu was good/bad blessed with Timmay

Understandable from a standpoint of someone who doesn't watch the Spurs. Manu def could have carried those C's to the same place Pierce took them most of the time(missed PO, first round exits, 1 ecf until teamed up with stars).

[Infinite_limit]

Understandable from a standpoint of someone who doesn't watch the Spurs. Manu def could have carried those C's to the same place Pierce took them most of the time(missed PO, first round exits, 1 ecf until teamed up with stars).
What Legends are Made Of


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqdBeYXx4L0

[313]

What Legends are Made Of


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqdBeYXx4L0

:cry Going to miss this guy

I still have a pistons duffle bag from this finals. Good times.

[Infinite_limit]

:cry Going to miss this guy

I still have a pistons duffle bag from this finals. Good times.
:huddle:

God bless youTube

[LkrFan]

Stupid thread. OP must be 15 years old. Hated the Celtics, but prime Pierce rivals prime LeHype. There's a reason he was "The Truth." Prime Bin Harden v. prime Pierce? No comparison.

[Raven]

How about instead of trying to be a hard ass, you'd actually rebuke what a I said and then we'd discuss it like adults. Kids these days.

according to you, harden made his mark by being westchimps and durants bitch, being on the bench strictly because he was a bottom 5 defender in the league, and that's better than being the franchise player.. whatever

[Thread]

Pierce because of clutchness and intangibles

Though following the Lakers back out to the coast---after he swore up & down he'd not do such is a pox upon the piss pot.

Then he & Danny had to fly back. tee, hee. Yeah, Ainge, hidin' out in Los Angeles.

[djohn2oo8]

Stupid thread. OP must be 15 years old. Hated the Celtics, but prime Pierce rivals prime LeHype. There's a reason he was "The Truth." Prime Bin Harden v. prime Pierce? No comparison.

Pierce does not rival LeBron :lmao

[InRareForm]

Pierce by a little

[ambchang]

In terms of career accomplishments, it's most definitely Pierce and it's not even close.

But that is not the point of this thread, and I felt a lot of people are mistaking the topic.

In terms of prime vs. current, I would say they are pretty even, but Harden does have the better numbers, most traditional and advanced. I would still pick Pierce though, just an easier player to build around because he can direct an offense (better than Harden), score (not as good as Harden, but close), and defend the perimeter (much better than Harden).

Pierce requires an all-star big next to him who can score, rebound and defend. Those guys don't grow on trees, but is surely a lot easier to find than a bunch of three point shooters who can defend AND an all-star big who can score rebound and defend.

Harden dominates the ball on offense, but he is not really good enough to carry an championship level team on offense all by himself, like Lebron, Dirk, Tim, Shaq or even Wade could. So it's extremely tough to really field a championship team around him with an offense that is tough enough to defend, but can also hide his defensive deficiencies.

It's not a coincidence Harden's numbers drop in the playoffs after he became a #1, because as good as he is, playoff defenses can stop Harden, but there aren't really any other creators on the Rockets to take that burden off of him. The reason they don't have that #2 creator is because that #2 creator cannot really strive in the Rockets environment, where it's Harden dribbling and crossing over for 16 seconds before he drives to the basket to score, get fouled, or kick it out. Harden would be GREAT in the 90s.

In terms of ranking the players, I have, barring injuries and only prime:

Wade
Iverson
TMac
Harden
Carter
Pierce

In terms of career:

Pierce
Wade
Iverson
TMac
Carter
Harden (just too young, would most definitely move up)

[Double-Up]

Pierce does not rival LeBron :lmao

Yea that's about the level of intelligence of lakerfan in general these days. :lol

[LkrFan]

Pierce does not rival LeBron :lmaoHave you seen Prime Pierce? He was a bad bad dude.

[LkrFan]

Yea that's about the level of intelligence of lakerfan in general these days. :lol

LeHype was sent packing by mid-prime Pierce a few times. His ass ran all the way to South Beach because he couldn't handle the Truth! :downspin: that shiiiiiiiiiiit! :lol

[ambchang]

LeHype was sent packing by mid-prime Pierce a few times. His ass ran all the way to South Beach because he couldn't handle the Truth! :downspin: that shiiiiiiiiiiit! :lol

You are mixing up team and individual accomplishments again.

One side has KG, Allen and Rondo. The other side has Mo Williams and I don't even remember who.

[djohn2oo8]

In terms of career accomplishments, it's most definitely Pierce and it's not even close.

But that is not the point of this thread, and I felt a lot of people are mistaking the topic.

In terms of prime vs. current, I would say they are pretty even, but Harden does have the better numbers, most traditional and advanced. I would still pick Pierce though, just an easier player to build around because he can direct an offense (better than Harden), score (not as good as Harden, but close), and defend the perimeter (much better than Harden).

Pierce requires an all-star big next to him who can score, rebound and defend. Those guys don't grow on trees, but is surely a lot easier to find than a bunch of three point shooters who can defend AND an all-star big who can score rebound and defend.

Harden dominates the ball on offense, but he is not really good enough to carry an championship level team on offense all by himself, like Lebron, Dirk, Tim, Shaq or even Wade could. So it's extremely tough to really field a championship team around him with an offense that is tough enough to defend, but can also hide his defensive deficiencies.

It's not a coincidence Harden's numbers drop in the playoffs after he became a #1, because as good as he is, playoff defenses can stop Harden, but there aren't really any other creators on the Rockets to take that burden off of him. The reason they don't have that #2 creator is because that #2 creator cannot really strive in the Rockets environment, where it's Harden dribbling and crossing over for 16 seconds before he drives to the basket to score, get fouled, or kick it out. Harden would be GREAT in the 90s.

In terms of ranking the players, I have, barring injuries and only prime:

Wade
Iverson
TMac
Harden
Carter
Pierce

In terms of career:

Pierce
Wade
Iverson
TMac
Carter
Harden (just too young, would most definitely move up)

Yes Harden is good enough to do so. it would help if all the big men on his squad could hit free throws. Smith, Howard, and Capela were horrid in the playoffs. It's pretty simple what the team needs around him, is reliable three point shooters and a point guard that can hit his shots. Actually, in the playoffs Howard, Brewer, Smith, Jones and Capela were all around 60%, 50% and 40% from the free throw line. That is unacceptable for an NBA player.

[ambchang]

Yes Harden is good enough to do so. it would help if all the big men on his squad could hit free throws. Smith, Howard, and Capela were horrid in the playoffs. It's pretty simple what the team needs around him, is reliable three point shooters and a point guard that can hit his shots. Actually, in the playoffs Howard, Brewer, Smith, Jones and Capela were all around 60%, 50% and 40% from the free throw line. That is unacceptable for an NBA player.

Now you are just being greedy.

Dwight was putting up 17/15 and Smith 13/6 in the playoffs, and Dwight was putting up 14/14 and Smith 15/5 in the GSW series.

As for FT%, you knew what you were getting when you got those players, and them shooting a higher clip at the FT line will not turn a 1-4 series loss into a series win anyways.

Harden's offensive game is, as part as it is to stop, quite predictable. It's more of Morey's problem than it is Harden's, as he fielded a team that really doesn't give you that much variation on offense, but it's clearly an environment that allows Harden to strive in.

So you basically are saying Harden requires a bunch of people around him who can hit shots and defend, but I would imagine any NBA superstar would be able to lead such a squad to a championship, Pierce included.

[djohn2oo8]

Now you are just being greedy.

Dwight was putting up 17/15 and Smith 13/6 in the playoffs, and Dwight was putting up 14/14 and Smith 15/5 in the GSW series.

As for FT%, you knew what you were getting when you got those players, and them shooting a higher clip at the FT line will not turn a 1-4 series loss into a series win anyways.

Harden's offensive game is, as part as it is to stop, quite predictable. It's more of Morey's problem than it is Harden's, as he fielded a team that really doesn't give you that much variation on offense, but it's clearly an environment that allows Harden to strive in.

So you basically are saying Harden requires a bunch of people around him who can hit shots and defend, but I would imagine any NBA superstar would be able to lead such a squad to a championship, Pierce included.

It may or it may not. However, if a team can't shoot free throes they are not going to win. Game 1 was decided by 4 points, Howard and Jones missed 6 free throws combined. And game 2, decided by one point, the team missed like nine free throws. It matters and is a simple mechanic that everyone should master being paid millions to do it.

[ambchang]

It may or it may not. However, if a team can't shoot free throes they are not going to win. Game 1 was decided by 4 points, Howard and Jones missed 6 free throws combined. And game 2, decided by one point, the team missed like nine free throws. It matters and is a simple mechanic that everyone should master being paid millions to do it.

Unlikely though. You are expecting them to make a high percentage of FTs (at least 6 of 8 to tie, or 7 of 8 to win), and that is just not happening, and simply not their game. Besides, many of them got FTs in the first place because they are so bad at it.

In Game 2, the team didn't even shoot that many FTs, with Harden shooting a majority of them anyways. Dwight was 8 for 11 from the field, and that is not enough, he's gotta nail his FTs as well, which really is greedy.

Really, how many players right now his Dwight Howard's game AND can nail FTs at a decent (say 70%) clip?

[hater]

Pierce was one of the best defenders in the league in his prime.

Pierce by a few football fields

[jdiggy0424]

It may or it may not. However, if a team can't shoot free throes they are not going to win. Game 1 was decided by 4 points, Howard and Jones missed 6 free throws combined. And game 2, decided by one point, the team missed like nine free throws. It matters and is a simple mechanic that everyone should master being paid millions to do it.

Also Harden has a tendency to be severely unclutch in the playoffs. Game 1 was completely his fault by losing the ball, and as the superstar/leader your team there is no excuse for 13 turnovers in a closeout game. I also don't need to bring up his performance (or lack thereof) against the Heat. In basketball, especially in the playoffs, you need a guy that is not only the emotional leader of the team, but makes the clutch play/shot when it matters most. Pierce, even in his old age, has shown this time and time again that he delivers. That's why I choose Pierce (for now, because Harden is still young).

When this debate comes up again in 4-5 years it could be a different story.

[Spurtacular]

I think Non-Spur opinion would be Pierce carried a Franchise for 8 something years

While Manu was good/bad blessed with Timmay

I love Pierce, but he's not like a Bird, Magic, Duncan who are gonna take his team to 50 wins no matter what. Maybe Manu never exactly had to carry a team; but Pierce didn't exactly do that either.

[LkrFan]

You are mixing up team and individual accomplishments again.

One side has KG, Allen and Rondo. The other side has Mo Williams and I don't even remember who.

What's up with all these LeHype nuthuggers? :lol Okay, I'll play your silly ass game:

A) LeHype is 0-1 in the Finals as a Cav (EC was WEAK det year)
B) LeHype is 2-3 on a loaded roster
C) That's a pathetic Finals record
D) Battier bailed his ass out in 2012
E) Ray Ray did the same in 2013
F) Steph Curry tapped that ass last year

EC projects to be weak for the forseeable future. He'll moonwalk to the Finals again and again. Let's see if he improves on his PATHETIC Finals record. No excuses.

And :lmao at you using Rondo as part of your argument. SMH

[ambchang]

What's up with all these LeHype nuthuggers? :lol Okay, I'll play your silly ass game:

A) LeHype is 0-1 in the Finals as a Cav (EC was WEAK det year)

So now finals record matters?

5-1 better than 5-2, I'd say.


B) LeHype is 2-3 on a loaded roster

07 Cavs was loaded? 15 Cavs was horrible, especially the Finals version. Any team with Mo Williams and Delladova as your second best players are by definition horrible.


C) That's a pathetic Finals record

See above, 5-1 > 5-2.


D) Battier bailed his ass out in 2012

And? Isn't that the entire point of a team game?


E) Ray Ray did the same in 2013

See above.


F) Steph Curry tapped that ass last year

Lebron was a one man wrecking crew. He put up historical numbers until the Warriors, with their loaded roster just tsunamied the Cavs.


EC projects to be weak for the forseeable future. He'll moonwalk to the Finals again and again. Let's see if he improves on his PATHETIC Finals record. No excuses.

So? 5-1 > 5-2.


And :lmao at you using Rondo as part of your argument. SMH

Rondo was a great fit for that Celtics team. He didn't have to score, just facilitate and defend, so his weaknesses (stat padding, inability to shoot) were masked.

[LkrFan]

So now finals record matters?

5-1 better than 5-2, I'd say.



07 Cavs was loaded? 15 Cavs was horrible, especially the Finals version. Any team with Mo Williams and Delladova as your second best players are by definition horrible.



See above, 5-1 > 5-2.



And? Isn't that the entire point of a team game?



See above.



Lebron was a one man wrecking crew. He put up historical numbers until the Warriors, with their loaded roster just tsunamied the Cavs.



So? 5-1 > 5-2.



Rondo was a great fit for that Celtics team. He didn't have to score, just facilitate and defend, so his weaknesses (stat padding, inability to shoot) were masked.

I see your 5-1 bullshit. What about H2H in the playoffs with both players playing? Oops - forgot about that shiiiiiiiiiiit, did we? :lol You make it sound like Tammy is 5-1 vs Kobe the way you bragging. :lol

LeHype has a cakewalk to the Finals feasting ofv the lEastern Conference. But here he is with a 40% winning percentage in the Finals. Yet you farmers keep pimping him for GOAT? GTFO with that bullshit son. I thoughthe made his teammates better? :downspin:

[ambchang]

I see your 5-1 bullshit. What about H2H in the playoffs with both players playing? Oops - forgot about that shiiiiiiiiiiit, did we? :lol You make it sound like Tammy is 5-1 vs Kobe the way you bragging. :lol

LeHype has a cakewalk to the Finals feasting ofv the lEastern Conference. But here he is with a 40% winning percentage in the Finals. Yet you farmers keep pimping him for GOAT? GTFO with that bullshit son. I thoughthe made his teammates better? :downspin:

Great, so Nash > Kobe.

And what matters that he cakewalks to the finals? Is anybody ranking him because of the number of times he made the finals?

With the exception of 2010 and 2011, lebrons team won every time he's supposed to win. And he put up monster stats in 2010.

[LkrFan]

Great, so Nash > Kobe.

And what matters that he cakewalks to the finals? Is anybody ranking him because of the number of times he made the finals?

With the exception of 2010 and 2011, lebrons team won every time he's supposed to win. And he put up monster stats in 2010.

Fuck stats. He dominates the ball. He's bigger, faster, and stronger than everybody. He should put up stats. However, he LOST to the WC winner 4 times. By contrast, Kobe WON the WC 7 times. So, maybe Kobe made his teammates better.

All I know is LeHype ball had to be bailed out in '12 & '13 - otherwise his punkass is 0-fer-6, period.

[LkrFan]

Its not a coach in the annals of history that would draw up a play for Harden while Kobe is on the same team.

Truth.

[djohn2oo8]

Truth.

Though what Kobe is one of the worst at making the last shot?

[LkrFan]

Though what Kobe is one of the worst at making the last shot?

You really pimping Bin Harden over Kobe son? :lol

[ambchang]

Fuck stats. He dominates the ball. He's bigger, faster, and stronger than everybody. He should put up stats. However, he LOST to the WC winner 4 times. By contrast, Kobe WON the WC 7 times. So, maybe Kobe made his teammates better.

So much better such that Kobe NEVER led the Lakers in any advanced stats in those 5 championship years. That's right, never.

Really, there is no maybe about it, Kobe's teammates are simply better than him. The Lakers offense and defense was built around Shaq, then built around their dominant frontcourt of MVPau and Odom. Watch the games again.

Kobe was essentially the second fiddle of all second fiddles.

And Lebron drags bad teammates to heights they have no business being in, and you are blaming him? That blame falls squarely on management.

You can blame Lebron for running GM, but you know what happened when Kobe tried to be GM, he runs out Shaq and led the Lakers to 3 years of mediocrity. Then the last three years of absolute terror for the Lakers.

So you are basically going on and on and on about how the LAKERS were better than the CAVS, but that has nothing to do with Kobe being better than Lebron, but all the Lakers who are not Kobe better than all those Cavs who are not Lebron.

If you want to give all the credit of the Lakers success to Kobe, then you should place all the blame of the Lakers failure on Kobe too. When did Lebron ever lead his team to anything remotely as bad as Kobe led the Lakers the last few years?


All I know is LeHype ball had to be bailed out in '12 & '13 - otherwise his punkass is 0-fer-6, period.

Shaq won FMVP in 00, 01 and 02, as well as leading the Lakers in almost every single advanced stat. MVPau led the Lakers in almost every single advanced stat in 09 and 10, and in many cases by a significant margin. And you act like Artest didn't nail any shots in 10, or Horry didn't nail clutch shots over the Kings, or the refs didn't give crazy amounts of FTs in elimination games THREE separate times.

Comparing Kobe to Lebron is like comparing McHale to Hakeem. All are great players, but one is an alpha, and the other is a beta.

[LkrFan]

So much better such that Kobe NEVER led the Lakers in any advanced stats in those 5 championship years. That's right, never.

Really, there is no maybe about it, Kobe's teammates are simply better than him. The Lakers offense and defense was built around Shaq, then built around their dominant frontcourt of MVPau and Odom. Watch the games again.

Kobe was essentially the second fiddle of all second fiddles.

And Lebron drags bad teammates to heights they have no business being in, and you are blaming him? That blame falls squarely on management.

You can blame Lebron for running GM, but you know what happened when Kobe tried to be GM, he runs out Shaq and led the Lakers to 3 years of mediocrity. Then the last three years of absolute terror for the Lakers.

So you are basically going on and on and on about how the LAKERS were better than the CAVS, but that has nothing to do with Kobe being better than Lebron, but all the Lakers who are not Kobe better than all those Cavs who are not Lebron.

If you want to give all the credit of the Lakers success to Kobe, then you should place all the blame of the Lakers failure on Kobe too. When did Lebron ever lead his team to anything remotely as bad as Kobe led the Lakers the last few years?



Shaq won FMVP in 00, 01 and 02, as well as leading the Lakers in almost every single advanced stat. MVPau led the Lakers in almost every single advanced stat in 09 and 10, and in many cases by a significant margin. And you act like Artest didn't nail any shots in 10, or Horry didn't nail clutch shots over the Kings, or the refs didn't give crazy amounts of FTs in elimination games THREE separate times.

Comparing Kobe to Lebron is like comparing McHale to Hakeem. All are great players, but one is an alpha, and the other is a beta.

Boiled down:

5/7 >>> 2/6. No way to :downspin: that shit. Battier goes nuts shooting wide open 3s in '12. Jim blows a fucken layup (didn't even try to dunk on...Battier)...Pop takes the TOSB out when all y'all needed was ONE fucken rebound...Bosh Spice rebounds it...Ray Ray then went in raw from downtown with no vaseline (pathetic perimeter D BTW). LeHype "wins" his 2nd rang.

He should be 0-fer-6. Stats be damned.

[DMC]

https://i.imgur.com/XLZ7eEy.jpg

They should
lol Kobe

[ambchang]

Boiled down:

5/7 >>> 2/6. No way to :downspin: that shit. Battier goes nuts shooting wide open 3s in '12. Jim blows a fucken layup (didn't even try to dunk on...Battier)...Pop takes the TOSB out when all y'all needed was ONE fucken rebound...Bosh Spice rebounds it...Ray Ray then went in raw from downtown with no vaseline (pathetic perimeter D BTW). LeHype "wins" his 2nd rang.

He should be 0-fer-6. Stats be damned.

Boiled down:

5/6 > 5/7. No way to :downspin that shit. Shaq goes nuts dunking everything in sight in 00, 01 and 02. Kobe blows shot after shot (didn't even try to pass on ... Tayshaun Prince) ... Jackson wrote a book saying how uncoachable Kobe is .... MVPau rebounds a hundreds and hundreds of missed Kobe shots .... MVPau then takes over the games. Kobe "wins" his 2nd FMVP.

He should be 0-fer-5. Stats be damned.

[LkrFan]

Boiled down:

5/6 > 5/7. No way to :downspin that shit. Shaq goes nuts dunking everything in sight in 00, 01 and 02. Kobe blows shot after shot (didn't even try to pass on ... Tayshaun Prince) ... Jackson wrote a book saying how uncoachable Kobe is .... MVPau rebounds a hundreds and hundreds of missed Kobe shots .... MVPau then takes over the games. Kobe "wins" his 2nd FMVP.

He should be 0-fer-5. Stats be damned.
:lol

[SuperCam]

kudos to ambchang for nuking LkrFan's faggotry on this thread :bobo