Why was Bob Hill fired?

[RD2191]

Did Pop do Bob dirty? Tbh. Where would the Spurs be had Pop not fired Hill?

[FromWayDowntown]

Other old timers can speak to this with more certainty, but the long-repeated story about the Bob Hill firing is that several veteran Spurs asked Popovich to make the change and he did so without throwing those guys under the bus.

Whether it was instigated by the players or by Popovich and other management people, the truth is that Hill's team got its ass kicked by Utah in the West Semifinals in 1996 (losing by 20, 30, 15, and 23) despite a 59-win regular season and home court advantage in that series. After the debacle of the 1995 West Finals, I think many associated with the Spurs had begun to discover that Bob Hill's polish and talk didn't really do much when it came to getting results against quality teams in the playoffs. So, whether the firing was instigated by the players or by management (or by some combination), at the point that it went down, the Spurs were an aging team with a broken superstar and didn't look to have a realistic chance to get over the hump against good teams in the playoffs to win a title. Firing Hill at that point made sense, even if the timing was a little dirty. The 3-15 start gave management some additional cover.

And the fact that Bob Hill hasn't been able to find NBA jobs (much less NBA success) since then is probably at least some proof that the choice was the right one for the organization. I frankly doubt that Bob Hill would have been able to develop the kind of relationship with Tim Duncan that Pop did and I think that relationship may be the most important aspect of Pop's reign.

[RD2191]

Oh wow. Never heard the part about the players before. That's interesting. Thanks for your thoughts. Great info.:tu

[baseline bum]

Oh wow. Never heard the part about the players before. That's interesting. Thanks for your thoughts. Great info.:tu

I have always heard David and AJ wanted him out bad. It makes sense when you find out David and AJ were the two Spurs who were trying to fire the team up before that Houston win in 1999 that saved Pop's job (there was a lot of talk the team was about to replace him with Doc Rivers).

[RD2191]

I have always heard David and AJ wanted him out bad. It makes sense when you find out David and AJ were the two Spurs who were trying to fire the team up before that Houston win in 1999 that saved Pop's job (there was a lot of talk the team was about to replace him with Doc Rivers).

Doc Rivers? Gaw damn, Pop never would of lived that down. :lol

[tmtcsc]

Bob Hill was let go for several reasons. The biggest one was that Avery Johnson led an internal coup to get him released. AJ was very close with Pop and pretty much told him that Hill had lost the team. It's ironic that during the Spurs' kickoff luncheon before Hill began coaching, AJ introduced him and let slip the following statement: "We have a great front office that went out and got the best coach for this team...that was available". The comment drew laughs from the crowd but I don't think it was intended to be funny. Avery caught himself and played along but this was no celebrity roast. That pretty much summed up the Bob Hill hiring.

Once Hill got his hands on the team, it was evident he wasn't going to get them to the next level. Jerry Sloan and the Jazz ran circles around the team to the point of embarrassment. It was just a mess. He needed to go and Pop manned up and took on the coaching responsibilities. Pop was at a crossroads in his career too. He hired the guy and it was a reflection on him. He needed to make this work or he was gone. I'd say he stepped up pretty big, took his lumps and earned his stripes.

When they started out slow in 1999 and Pop was on the verge of possibly being fired, AJ and David rallied the team together. They bought in to the system and knew that the losing was on them and not the coaching staff. They had to go out and execute what Pop was trying to do.

[RD2191]

Bob Hill claimed Pop just wanted his job. I thought Pop was a dick for awhile there but I can see there was more to the story. Appreciate everyones input.

[peacemaker885]

Doc Rivers? Gaw damn, Pop never would of lived that down. :lol

Also remember that Doc Rivers (and Grant Hill) were the ones who almost lured Tim tom Orlando in 2001.

[FromWayDowntown]

The Pop-AJ connection at that point in time was undeniably close. Pop had been on the Spurs' staff in 1990-91 and 1991-92 when Avery got his first two chances with the Spurs. While Pop was an assistant in Golden State, in 1993-94, Avery made his real breakthrough as a player, and when Pop became GM of the Spurs in the summer of 1994, his first two moves were the trade to reacquire Sean Elliott and the signing of Avery Johnson. There was a lot of speculation during the summer of 1994, when the Spurs were looking to replace a coach and a GM, that Popovich was the preference for both positions, but he apparently thought it best to take only one and wanted the GM position; regardless there was significant sentiment in that time frame to give Pop the coaching job, so his coming to the bench was always a possibility (and may have even been what Spurs management and players desired).

Put all those pieces together and you could see that AJ is a likely candidate to lobby hard for Pop to be the head coach.

My recollection is that Sean Elliott was also part of the group of players that wanted Pop to replace Hill, but I might just be misremembering that.

[DJR210]

Because Pop is alpha

[RD2191]

The Pop-AJ connection at that point in time was undeniably close. Pop had been on the Spurs' staff in 1990-91 and 1991-92 when Avery got his first two chances with the Spurs. While Pop was an assistant in Golden State, in 1993-94, Avery made his real breakthrough as a player, and when Pop became GM of the Spurs in the summer of 1994, his first two moves were the trade to reacquire Sean Elliott and the signing of Avery Johnson. There was a lot of speculation during the summer of 1994, when the Spurs were looking to replace a coach and a GM, that Popovich was the preference for both positions, but he apparently thought it best to take only one and wanted the GM position; regardless there was significant sentiment in that time frame to give Pop the coaching job, so his coming to the bench was always a possibility (and may have even been what Spurs management and players desired).

Put all those pieces together and you could see that AJ is a likely candidate to lobby hard for Pop to be the head coach.

My recollection is that Sean Elliott was also part of the group of players that wanted Pop to replace Hill, but I might just be misremembering that.

Thanks man. Great info.

[houston spurs fan]

Bob Hill sucked, hence the reason he has done absolutely zero since.

[snickles]

lots of little details i had never hear surrounding this story! thanks for taking the time to post guys!

[JeffDuncan]

He was fired because the Spurs had 3 wins against 15 losses.

[Solid D]

The Pop-AJ connection at that point in time was undeniably close. Pop had been on the Spurs' staff in 1990-91 and 1991-92 when Avery got his first two chances with the Spurs. While Pop was an assistant in Golden State, in 1993-94, Avery made his real breakthrough as a player, and when Pop became GM of the Spurs in the summer of 1994, his first two moves were the trade to reacquire Sean Elliott and the signing of Avery Johnson. There was a lot of speculation during the summer of 1994, when the Spurs were looking to replace a coach and a GM, that Popovich was the preference for both positions, but he apparently thought it best to take only one and wanted the GM position; regardless there was significant sentiment in that time frame to give Pop the coaching job, so his coming to the bench was always a possibility (and may have even been what Spurs management and players desired).

Put all those pieces together and you could see that AJ is a likely candidate to lobby hard for Pop to be the head coach.

My recollection is that Sean Elliott was also part of the group of players that wanted Pop to replace Hill, but I might just be misremembering that.

Pop said after losing to Utah that he wanted to change to a tougher mindset and one modeled after Utah.
As GM. He could only dictate that to a small degree, but it wasn't under his full control and influence. When he made the change after the season started (18 games in) with David going down after the 6th game, I thought that was bad form on Pop's part. I've always wondered if, after David's injury, Pop felt like he could control tanking the season better if he were coaching, but that might be too skeptical a theory. For sure, he wanted to coach, but his player leadership was certainly unhappy. Bob Hill's style and will was no where near the Sloan/Pop model. Plus, since his former coach (Egan) had been an assistant there for two years -(brought in by GM Pop), it must have been enticing to coach with his old coach.

[UZER]

Bob Hill got exposed. But the 94-95 season was fun as hell. Then the bottom fell out during the playoffs.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Popovich Shows Poor Timing In Spurs Takeover
December 15, 1996|By ALAN GREENBERG; Courant Staff Writer

.....

Spurs players were stunned by the news, which Popovich delivered on the way to the shootaround Tuesday. Dominique Wilkins said he thought it was a gag, and praised Hill. So did his teammates.
``Do I agree with the decision?'' Robinson said. ``No. But coaches are the first persons to be looked at when things go bad. And 3-15 [the Spurs' record at the time] is bad. I don't think Bob was losing the team. I thought the guys were working pretty hard.''
``Lost the team?'' guard Vinny Del Negro said. ``I don't think so.''
Popovich's ego may overflow, but don't look for him to coach beyond this season. His head coaching experience is eight years at Pomona- Pitzer Collegehttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png (http://articles.courant.com/1996-12-15/sports/9612150269_1_gregg-popovich-bob-hill-spurs-vice-president#) in Claremont, Calif. Of course, Pomona-Pitzer never had David Robinson at center.




lolskates :lmao

[Obstructed_View]

The benefit of hindsight tells us a lot. I'm perfectly fine thinking Pop wanted to coach the team himself, didn't want to run his guys into the ground to try to salvage a lost season, and oh by the way, saw a huge prize available via ping pong balls.

The back injury that Robinson suffered that season plagued him the rest of his career and ultimately forced him to retire. At the time nobody knew how bad it was. We do now.

Bob Hill went 53-81 as an NBA coach the rest of his career, which included a stint in the NCAA where Fordham paid 600 grand to go away.

The Spurs won the lottery, and got a top five player all time who's anchoring a Finals favorite 19 seasons and five championships later.

[SnakeBoy]

Bob Hill got exposed. But the 94-95 season was fun as hell. Then the bottom fell out during the playoffs.

Yeah we were the Phoenix Suns that year.

[Russ]

Apart from the behind-the-scenes intrigue . . .

Pop basically thought that Hill couldn't (or wouldn't) coach tough enough defense and that the Spurs couldn't win big without playing that kind of D.

[Spurtacular]

Hill was the last of the no nonsense coaches, imo. Victim of not changing enough with the times. Just my recollection from long ago; maybe a bit hyperbolic.

[Old School 44]

Quite frankly, they weren't winning, and from what I remember Bob Hill just wasn't well liked. Imo, he was too busy trying to be Pat Riley.

[couchman]

After Pop took over the difference in how that team played defense was immediately noticeable and gave me hope for the future. He didn't tank all the way. I particularly remember Monty Williams coming in and becoming a defensive terror that season under Pop's tutelage. The seeds for a dominating championship defense were planted that season while David sat out. And don't forget that 2 other teams had worse records that year. We just won the ping pong ball thingy. I'll never forget that moment when we got the #1 pick and I was yelling "We've got Tim Duncan!" and people around me were like "who is that?"

[gospursgojas]

I have always heard David and AJ wanted him out bad. It makes sense when you find out David and AJ were the two Spurs who were trying to fire the team up before that Houston win in 1999 that saved Pop's job (there was a lot of talk the team was about to replace him with Doc Rivers).

Can you elaborate on what Houston win? Was it the game after their 6-8 record? Or the Ellie game winning Hou game?

[baseline bum]

Can you elaborate on what Houston win? Was it the game after their 6-8 record? Or the Ellie game winning Hou game?

The one after they got blown out by Utah on NBC to fall to 6-8. timvp had a great story about it; I think he posted it in a thread about an article by Simmons or maybe Zach Lowe about how close the Spurs came to firing Pop.

That's why it was so cool seeing Pop dancing like a madman at the river parade that year (see the credits at the end of this video below)
K5krQBHZcYk

He must have felt if he lost his job with the Spurs that year, it might have been it for him in the NBA, as he was still blamed a lot for the Bob Hill situation at the time. But I'd like to think Larry Brown or Don Nelson would have hired him again as an assistant and he would have gotten a second chance to be a head coach eventually.

[exstatic]

Hill was the last of the no nonsense coaches, imo. Victim of not changing enough with the times. Just my recollection from long ago; maybe a bit hyperbolic.

Hill was a dapper dandy who wore expensive suits, and constantly threw players under the bus, a la George Karl.

[exstatic]

Can you elaborate on what Houston win? Was it the game after their 6-8 record? Or the Ellie game winning Hou game?

The first one.

[Mark in Austin]

Hill was the last of the no nonsense coaches, imo.

I agree. In the '95 playoffs, he really made me focus on basketball, kept me on the straight and narrow. - Dennis Rodman

[Keepin' it real]

why was bob hill fired?

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/209/960/tumblr_lumprcCle61r2pbbdo1_500.jpg

[RD2191]

:lol

[FromWayDowntown]

I agree. In the '95 playoffs, he really made me focus on basketball, kept me on the straight and narrow. - Dennis Rodman

That actually made me laugh out loud.

[Dingle Barry]

The one after they got blown out by Utah on NBC to fall to 6-8. timvp had a great story about it; I think he posted it in a thread about an article by Simmons or maybe Zach Lowe about how close the Spurs came to firing Pop.

That's why it was so cool seeing Pop dancing like a madman at the river parade that year (see the credits at the end of this video below)
K5krQBHZcYk

He must have felt if he lost his job with the Spurs that year, it might have been it for him in the NBA, as he was still blamed a lot for the Bob Hill situation at the time. But I'd like to think Larry Brown or Don Nelson would have hired him again as an assistant and he would have gotten a second chance to be a head coach eventually.
I think he'd have gone back to being just a GM, not fired from the franchise altogether.

[BSfromTX]

no defense, Rodman was doing whatever he wanted (on and off the court), and I think he was pretty arrogant

As I recall, most of the team and staff wanted Hill gone after the playoffs the previous year. I wanted him gone when he wouldn't double HO and Rodman was leaving the perimeter to get rebounds. Robinson suffered a humiliating series not just because of Hakeem, but also because of Hill and Rodman.

[travis2]

Hill was a dapper dandy who wore expensive suits, and constantly threw players under the bus, a la George Karl.

I still remember...every effing time a TO was called and the camera went to Hill, he would stand up, adjust his tie, and smooth his hair back with both hands...

[Spurtacular]

Hill was a dapper dandy who wore expensive suits, and constantly threw players under the bus, a la George Karl.

Calling out players is how many old school coaches did it. That doesn't really fly so much in today's NBA full of spoiled players.

[EVAY]

Apart from the behind-the-scenes intrigue . . .

Pop basically thought that Hill couldn't (or wouldn't) coach tough enough defense and that the Spurs couldn't win big without playing that kind of D.

From one of the owners' reps (not me - the rep told me this though), this is exactly the reason. No defense. And if you guys remember, those were the days when great defense really WAS the determining factor.

I have always remembered the conversation with the rep because I disagreed with the decision. I had enjoyed Hill's coaching (kind of like enjoying D'Antoni's in retrospect). The rep told me that Hill was fired because "he had lost the team" - that quote was attributed to Pop himself, and because he only coached offense - "only half the game".

I remember at the time arguing that "well, defense is only half the game too, and that is all that Pop coaches"...but I was wrong, totally. Pop DID emphasize defense much more than Hill ever did, but the fact that he changed the Spurs' offense over the years according to rule and personnel changes convinced me just how wrong I had been.

Plus, as others have aptly pointed out, Hill never went anywhere else either.

[EVAY]

The "you have lost the team" is a big deal, apparently, and I remember Pop trying to fire himself a couple of years ago because he thought that about himself. Holt basically told him to go back to the bench and keep coaching and Pop did. I don't really know what changed that made things so much better (other than Tim turning the clock backwards and Holt finally starting to bring in some decent folks around Tim), but I haven't heard anything but love songs from players about Pop for the last few years.

[T Park]

I have always heard David and AJ wanted him out bad. It makes sense when you find out David and AJ were the two Spurs who were trying to fire the team up before that Houston win in 1999 that saved Pop's job (there was a lot of talk the team was about to replace him with Doc Rivers).


Sean Elliott too. Hated hill. Big reason? Immediately after getting knocked out by Utah, Hill came in the room and started saying David Robinson needed to do more and failed us.

Apparently the big three then went to Pop the days after and said his ass needed to go, pop fell on the sword 18 games in and took the blame.

[T Park]

Calling out players is how many old school coaches did it. That doesn't really fly so much in today's NBA full of spoiled players.



The guy was a putz a terrible coach. People formerly in the media that are close to Pop, explained how the players commonly thought he was a terrible game plan and X's and O's coach.

[exstatic]

Calling out players is how many old school coaches did it. That doesn't really fly so much in today's NBA full of spoiled players.

Didn't seem to fly too well back then, either.

[tholdren]

Other old timers can speak to this with more certainty, but the long-repeated story about the Bob Hill firing is that several veteran Spurs asked Popovich to make the change and he did so without throwing those guys under the bus.

Whether it was instigated by the players or by Popovich and other management people, the truth is that Hill's team got its ass kicked by Utah in the West Semifinals in 1996 (losing by 20, 30, 15, and 23) despite a 59-win regular season and home court advantage in that series. After the debacle of the 1995 West Finals, I think many associated with the Spurs had begun to discover that Bob Hill's polish and talk didn't really do much when it came to getting results against quality teams in the playoffs. So, whether the firing was instigated by the players or by management (or by some combination), at the point that it went down, the Spurs were an aging team with a broken superstar and didn't look to have a realistic chance to get over the hump against good teams in the playoffs to win a title. Firing Hill at that point made sense, even if the timing was a little dirty. The 3-15 start gave management some additional cover.

And the fact that Bob Hill hasn't been able to find NBA jobs (much less NBA success) since then is probably at least some proof that the choice was the right one for the organization. I frankly doubt that Bob Hill would have been able to develop the kind of relationship with Tim Duncan that Pop did and I think that relationship may be the most important aspect of Pop's reign.

Meh. Spurs FO didn't help the cause TBH. David didn't have near the cast that TD did. Now for that series, the Jazz was a better team. They had a REALLY good defense, and were a 55 win team. The 4-2 SA loss had less to do with Bob Hill as it did with the crap the FO (Pop and Co) put on the floor. Great timing for Pop to come in and coach. Top 10 player of all time with arguably a top #1 draft pick of all time. The west was loaded when David was around. Pop is a great coach, no doubt, but to say that Hill wasn't done dirty, is... not correct. Put Tim out there with trash and people would be calling for Pop's head during playoff failures.

[BSfromTX]

Meh. Spurs FO didn't help the cause TBH. David didn't have near the cast that TD did. Now for that series, the Jazz was a better team. They had a REALLY good defense, and were a 55 win team. The 4-2 SA loss had less to do with Bob Hill as it did with the crap the FO (Pop and Co) put on the floor. Great timing for Pop to come in and coach. Top 10 player of all time with arguably a top #1 draft pick of all time. The west was loaded when David was around. Pop is a great coach, no doubt, but to say that Hill wasn't done dirty, is... not correct. Put Tim out there with trash and people would be calling for Pop's head during playoff failures.

Man I disagree. Hill was a good offensive coach, but he didn't give a crap about defense.

and as as far as what he had to work with, I agree a little bit. If I'm not mistaken, there was no cap and small market teams struggled to compete for FA's, but i would be willing to bet that team goes seven or wins if pop had them the whole year.

[GSH]

Hill got fired because the Spurs had a better coach. The rest is color commentary.

[tmtcsc]

Pop is a great coach, no doubt, but to say that Hill wasn't done dirty, is... not correct.

I disagree. Pop had to get rid of him & he took full responsibility for the bad hire. I don't think he got extra pay for adding coaching duties to his resume either. The results speak volumes.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

David Robinson
Keith Van Horn
Sean Elliott
Mario Ellie/Jaren Jackson
Avery Johnson



would have been 2nd round fodder at best.

[Twisted_Dawg]

Pop said after losing to Utah that he wanted to change to a tougher mindset and one modeled after Utah.
As GM. He could only dictate that to a small degree, but it wasn't under his full control and influence. When he made the change after the season started (18 games in) with David going down after the 6th game, I thought that was bad form on Pop's part. I've always wondered if, after David's injury, Pop felt like he could control tanking the season better if he were coaching, but that might be too skeptical a theory. For sure, he wanted to coach, but his player leadership was certainly unhappy. Bob Hill's style and will was no where near the Sloan/Pop model. Plus, since his former coach (Egan) had been an assistant there for two years -(brought in by GM Pop), it must have been enticing to coach with his old coach.

At the time the firing seemed suspect as David came back from his injury I think on Pop's second game as HC. It was like, wow they fired the guy with his best player injured and now that player is coming back. At that point all of us long time fans were suffering from PTSD from all the nut job coaches that had come through the Spurs in the prior 10 years: John Lucas, Jerry "Tarkington", Larry Brown, Bob Weiss and Mo McHone. It was like, fuck, here we go again.

[tesseractive]

Calling out players is how many old school coaches did it. That doesn't really fly so much in today's NBA full of spoiled players.
Wait, you think Pop is an example of coaches who spoil players? Um, ok.

[Spurtacular]

Wait, you think Pop is an example of coaches who spoil players? Um, ok.

Figure out what the modifier "so much" means and then don't get back to me.

[smackdaddy11]

One thing no one has mentioned was Mario Elie. He has signed w the Spurs in 98. Pop wanted a champion on the team. Mario wanted another bling. After the Jazz blowout, he went off on a profanity laced tirade directed at the players. The team was not doing what Pop was telling them to do. Won in HOU the next evening and the rest is continued history. We all owe Mario a major props, otherwise, Doc would have taken over and success could of happened, but not to the level the Spurs have had.

Thank you Mario.

[baseline bum]

The "you have lost the team" is a big deal, apparently, and I remember Pop trying to fire himself a couple of years ago because he thought that about himself. Holt basically told him to go back to the bench and keep coaching and Pop did. I don't really know what changed that made things so much better (other than Tim turning the clock backwards and Holt finally starting to bring in some decent folks around Tim), but I haven't heard anything but love songs from players about Pop for the last few years.

It was after the 2005-06 season.