Are We Really Safer?

[Nbadan]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mKRgwLQ_4e0/VeBg54VON1I/AAAAAAAAMXY/zOvcjaGY1d4/s1600/gun-murders-usa-world.jpg

U.S. gun violence "dwarfs any deaths that happen through terrorism." - President Barack Obama

Found Here: http://all-hat-no-cattle.blogspot.com/

[DMX7]

USA #1 -- Undisputed Champs

[Blizzardwizard]

Definitely not because there are too many guns. Definitely not.

[DMX7]

And we have more people in prison too.

[cd021]

USA #1 -- Undisputed Champs

'Merica

[boutons_deux]

gun homicides, the one sport every country plays, and USA is World Champion, and perennial, untouchable leader in the Premier League of developed countries.

Got a problem, even just perceived problem (like cop's ego threat)? Shoot somebody. It's The American Way

2nd Amendment!

marans!

Freedom!

home defense! ("Of the female murder victims for whom the relationships to their offenders were known, 37.5 percent were murdered by their husbands or boyfriends.", not by the crazed black hordes which huge raping dicks)

Water the tree!

[DarrinS]

http://www.cityam.com/sites/default/files/sites/default/files/content-editors/images/u41686/Most-dangerous-20-countries-Per-100-000_chartbuilder.png

[TheSanityAnnex]

There is a quick way to cut our murder rate in half, but it involves removing 7% of our population.

[Winehole23]

apples and oranges. the picture looks different when you at industrialized countries:


The seminal work here is a 1999 book by Berkeley's Franklin Zimring and Gordon Hawkins, called Crime Is not the Problem (http://www.amazon.com/Crime-Is-Not-Problem-Violence/dp/0195131053). Zimring and Hawkins set out to examine what was, at the time, the conventional wisdom: that America had a uniquely terrible crime problem, one without any parallel in other developed democracies.


They found, pretty definitively, that the conventional wisdom was wrong. "Rates of common property crimes in the United States are comparable to those reported in many other Western industrial nations, but rates of lethal violence in the United States are much higher," they write. "Violence is not a crime problem."


Zimring and Hawkins determined this by looking at 20 developed countries' overall crime rate and rates of violent death. They found virtually no connection between the two, indicating that a country's level of violent death wasn't determined by its overall crime levels:

The lowest death rate country (England) has a crime rate just over average. The next lowest violence nation is Japan, which has the lowest crime rate also. The third lowest death rate country is the Netherlands, in the highest crime rate group.
"This data set provides a multinational example of the central point that lethal violence is the crucial problem in the United States," Zimring and Hawkins write. "It shows the United States clustered with other industrial countries in crime rate, but head and shoulders above the rest in violent death."

http://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9217163/america-guns-europe

[Winehole23]

There is a quick way to cut our murder rate in half, but it involves removing 7% of our population.your dream come true?






(regulating handguns would be politically more realistic and in the long run, more effective)

[Winehole23]

even at half the rate of intentional homicide, we put other industrialized countries in the shade. the problem isn't African-Americans. it's the prevalence of guns.

[TheSanityAnnex]

your dream come true?






(regulating handguns would be politically more realistic and in the long run, more effective)
Of course not but it is something the liberals on this board ignore talking about. 7% of the population committing 50% of the murders is insane, but let's instead focus on the gun fellators in Plano, TX where the murder rate is like 0.5 per 100,000

[Winehole23]

does being black tend to make you a murderer? what's the chain of causation here?

[Winehole23]

you know, since you want to talk about it.

[Winehole23]

what's the significance of the data point you keep emphasizing? can you unpack it?

[TheSanityAnnex]

New Orleans – 53.2 per 100,000
St. Louis – 35.5 per 100,000
Baltimore – 34.9 per 100,000
Newark - 34.4 per 100,000
Oakland – 31,8 per 100,000
Stockton – 23.7 per 100,000
Kansas City – 22.6 per 100,000
Philadelphia – 21.5 per 100,000
Cleveland – 21.3 per 100,000
Memphis – 20.2 per 100,000
Atlanta – 19.0 per 100,000
Chicago – 18.5 per 100,000

[Clipper Nation]

http://www.cityam.com/sites/default/files/sites/default/files/content-editors/images/u41686/Most-dangerous-20-countries-Per-100-000_chartbuilder.png

[Winehole23]

New Orleans – 53.2 per 100,000
St. Louis – 35.5 per 100,000
Baltimore – 34.9 per 100,000
Newark - 34.4 per 100,000
Oakland – 31,8 per 100,000
Stockton – 23.7 per 100,000
Kansas City – 22.6 per 100,000
Philadelphia – 21.5 per 100,000
Cleveland – 21.3 per 100,000
Memphis – 20.2 per 100,000
Atlanta – 19.0 per 100,000
Chicago – 18.5 per 100,000




What do these statistics mean? Those are just raw figures.

[DarrinS]

What do these statistics mean? Those are just raw figures.

Homicides per 100k?

I believe East St. Louis is the reigning murder capitol

[TheSanityAnnex]

What do these statistics mean? Those are just raw figures.
Homicide rate.

You were saying something about it not being an African-American problem.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Splits is here this should be fun

:lol 83%>90%

[Winehole23]

Homicide rate.

You were saying something about it not being an African-American problem.That's right.

Dead African American bodies is just a symptom; the ready availability of guns is the most likely proximate cause of the high rate of violent death in the US.

But if you want to use race as a predictor and let all consideration cease with that, please suit yourself.

[Winehole23]

seems to be you're maybe overstressing the explanatory value of the bare fact of racial phenotype of the perps (and the victims) with respect to murders in the USA.

what does it mean that African-Americans commit one half of the homicides in the US?

[Winehole23]

other than the fact that such statistics, you know, make such a great prop for arrogant racists who think they're winning online. you did want to talk about this right?

CN, DarrinS and TSA: don't y'all have anything to say about the statistics you posted?

[Winehole23]

no takes on own posts? raw figures only?




(internet smoke signals)

[TheSanityAnnex]

seems to be you're maybe overstressing the explanatory value of the bare fact of racial phenotype of the perps (and the victims) with respect to murders in the USA.

what does it mean that African-Americans commit one half of the homicides in the US?

Guns are readily available to all races here, why are blacks the outlier when it comes to murder rate?

[Winehole23]

dunno.

you cited the figure. I don't challenge it. what's your interpretation of it?

[DarrinS]

other than the fact that such statistics, you know, make such a great prop for arrogant racists who think they're winning online. you did want to talk about this right?

CN, DarrinS and TSA: don't y'all have anything to say about the statistics you posted?

13% committing 50%, mostly against their own people. I guess the data is racist.

[TheSanityAnnex]

no takes on own posts? raw figures only?




(internet smoke signals)
And please, don't think because you don't get an instant response people have ran away, that is childish. I have shit to do but will check back in from time to time. I promise I won't pull a Splits.

[TheSanityAnnex]

13% committing 50%, mostly against their own people. I guess the data is racist.
Actually it's closer to 7% committing 50% as the perps are mostly male.

[Winehole23]

ok, African Americans murder disproportionately. that's already conceded.

what does the solitary statistic mean to you? what's its explanatory value, if any?

how do you analyze it? you want to talk about race and murder, say something about it.

bringing up a single statistic over and over again, then swiftly retiring from the conversation except to repeat it, isn't a conversation.

[Clipper Nation]

CN, DarrinS and TSA: don't y'all have anything to say about the statistics you posted?
Seems to me that the claim that the US is some hugely unsafe country is a lie. OP and the rest of the anti-gun nuts should move to Honduras if they want to see a real dangerous country.

[TheSanityAnnex]

ok, African Americans murder disproportionately. that's already conceded.

what does the solitary statistic mean to you? how do you analyze it?
To me it means guns aren't the problem.

[Winehole23]

Seems to me that the claim that the US is some hugely unsafe country is a lie.compared to similarly prosperous countries, we are.

[Winehole23]

To me it means guns aren't the problem.What's the problem, maestro?

[DarrinS]

What percent of murders are committed with legally owned firearms?

[Winehole23]

To me it means guns aren't the problem.I don't see how a single data point rules out the explanatory value of the general prevalence of guns, whatsoever. you're gonna have to walk me through that.

your reasoning so far is elliptical at best, vanishing at worst.

[TheSanityAnnex]

What's the problem, maestro?
Poverty, lack of education, lack of opportunity, no father, glorified gang culture.

[boutons_deux]

Irrefutable FACT: More guns (300M+) means more gun violence.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Not sure if this picture is going to work pasting from my phone but I'm going to give it a shot.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/webkit-fake-url://1e966a3a-ffa9-47cf-aea3-1f7d9cb99c24/imagejpeg
Damn it didn't work. Been building something this morning.

[Trill Clinton]

http://www.cityam.com/sites/default/files/sites/default/files/content-editors/images/u41686/Most-dangerous-20-countries-Per-100-000_chartbuilder.png

Compare America to 3rd world shitholes, brehs

[TheSanityAnnex]

Irrefutable FACT: More guns (300M+) means more gun violence.

Add one more to the 300M+

Just finished building this morning
http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s679/thefuzzylumpkins/takedown_zps2xp3oohv.jpg
Are squirrels and rabbits really safer? Not at all. Perfect camping gun and will fit in a small backpack.
http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s679/thefuzzylumpkins/takedown2_zpsjvt242ag.jpg
Heading out now to sight it in, but don't worry I'll be safe and have my head on a swivel. I'll be on the lookout for people with guns at the range, especially blacks with guns.

[unleashbaynes]

It's not about guns. Just end the massive failure known as the "war on drugs" and most of this bullshit goes away.

[Winehole23]

Poverty, lack of education, lack of opportunity, no father, glorified gang culture.institutional racism and its knock on effects. sure, why not?

[Winehole23]

It's not about guns. Just end the massive failure known as the "war on drugs" and most of this bullshit goes away.sure, why not?

[Winehole23]

Poverty, lack of education, lack of opportunity, no father, glorified gang culture.what policies are appealing as solutions to these social ills, besides deporting 13% percent of Americans, which obviously would be the most expeditious thing to do?

[Winehole23]

Poverty, lack of education, lack of opportunity, no father, glorified gang culture.absent the prevalence of guns, these wouldn't so deadly in the USA.

[DarrinS]

Compare America to 3rd world shitholes, brehs

As opposed to comparing the U.S. To Iceland

[TeyshaBlue]

absent the prevalence of guns, these wouldn't so deadly in the USA.

Maybe.

[TeyshaBlue]

Lots of ways to be violent.

[Winehole23]

our crime rate isn't out of line with industrialized countries, but the rate of violent deaths is.

why do you suppose that is, TB?

[TheSanityAnnex]

absent the prevalence of guns, these wouldn't so deadly in the USA.
Venezuela says hello.

[Winehole23]

apples and oranges. we ain't Venezuela.

[Blizzardwizard]

http://www.cityam.com/sites/default/files/sites/default/files/content-editors/images/u41686/Most-dangerous-20-countries-Per-100-000_chartbuilder.png

Having to dig out third world stats to make 1st world USA gun death rates ok :lol

Still waiting for the ol' "but but but what about Russia?? :cry"

[TheSanityAnnex]

apples and oranges. we ain't Venezuela.
Winehole23 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14613)dangerous floaterhttp://www.spurstalk.com/forums/image.php?u=14613&dateline=1328436494 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14613)My TeamSan Antonio SpursPost Count33,215



http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by TheSanityAnnex (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8176627#post8176627)
Poverty, lack of education, lack of opportunity, no father, glorified gang culture.



absent the prevalence of guns, these wouldn't so deadly








I think comparing the US's inner cities is a very fair comparison. There isn't a prevalence of guns in Venezuela, why so many homicides?

[TheSanityAnnex]

Having to dig out third world stats to make 1st world USA gun death rates ok :lol

Still waiting for the ol' "but but but what about Russia?? :cry"
The U.S. is in the bottom half of total murders out of 200 countries. I'm okay with that considering most countries are very homogeneous.

[boutons_deux]

The lawlessness of MesoAmerica now is directly descendent from Useful Idiot St Ronnie dicking around down there in the 80s to destabilize "socialist" democratic govts, arming the anti-govt forces which learned how to shoot, kill and take over and continue to make their own gang laws.

"Why Do They Hate Us?" :lol

[TeyshaBlue]

HerpDerp!

[Blizzardwizard]

I think comparing the US's inner cities is a very fair comparison. There isn't a prevalence of guns in Venezuela, why so many homicides?

You mention Venezuela, a borderline 3rd world country in which gun violence will always be prevalent, anti gun laws or not. What about the many 1st world countries in the OP listed, that all to varying degrees have stricter gun controls than the USA?

[TeyshaBlue]

our crime rate isn't out of line with industrialized countries, but the rate of violent deaths is.

why do you suppose that is, TB?

Guns are brutally efficient.
But they are not pulling their own triggers nor formenting intent.
That's where the work begins

[DarrinS]

Having to dig out third world stats to make 1st world USA gun death rates ok :lol

Still waiting for the ol' "but but but what about Russia?? :cry"


Ok then. Forget comparisons to other countries. Just focus on the U.S.

Where are the "hot spots" for gun homicides in the U.S. and what do they have in common?

[DarrinS]

What percent of murders are committed with legally owned firearms?

I'd still like to know the answer to this question.

[TheSanityAnnex]

You mention Venezuela, a borderline 3rd world country in which gun violence will always be prevalent, anti gun laws or not. What about the many 1st world countries in the OP listed, that all to varying degrees have stricter gun controls than the USA?
Let me know when these same countries have the same percentage of African-Americans as the U.S.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Ok then. Forget comparisons to other countries. Just focus on the U.S.

Where are the "hot spots" for gun homicides in the U.S. and what do they have in common?
those hot spots seem to have something in common with those third world countries at the top of the list I just can put my finger on it.

[Trill Clinton]

Ok then. Forget comparisons to other countries. Just focus on the U.S.

Where are the "hot spots" for gun homicides in the U.S. and what do they have in common?

Systematic poverty? What should we do to keep guns out the hands of the disenfranchised? Arresting them and throwing them in prison hasn't worked.

[TeyshaBlue]

Systematic poverty? What should we do to keep guns out the hands of the disenfranchised? Arresting them and throwing them in prison hasn't worked.

Not Systematic....Systemic. You cant legislate responsibilty....unfortunately you can punish the irresponsible. But, as you point out, that accomplishes nothing.

[DarrinS]

Systematic poverty? What should we do to keep guns out the hands of the disenfranchised? Arresting them and throwing them in prison hasn't worked.

So, then there's probably lots of homicides in Appalachia, right?

[Trill Clinton]

Not Systematic....Systemic. You cant legislate responsibilty....unfortunately you can punish the irresponsible. But, as you point out, that accomplishes nothing.

Thanks

[TeyshaBlue]

So far, zero solution sets but lots of bitching.

[TeyshaBlue]

So, then there's probably lots of homicides in Appalachia, right?

Grapefriut<>Motor Oil

[TheSanityAnnex]

Not Systematic....Systemic. You cant legislate responsibilty....unfortunately you can punish the irresponsible. But, as you point out, that accomplishes nothing.
At a certain point the responsibility falls in the community itself. I feel terrible for the good people who have to live in such a dangerous place. The black community needs more outspoken positive leaders from its community, not race baiters like Al Sharpton.

[Trill Clinton]

We don't need leaders and whites trot out messy Jackson and AL sharlaton when they want negros to calm down. Fuck both of them.

[TheSanityAnnex]

We don't need leaders and whites trot out messy Jackson and AL sharlaton when they want negros to calm down. Fuck both of them.
If the black communities don't lead leaders what is your solution to the disproportionate amount of murders black males are committing?

[Wild Cobra]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mKRgwLQ_4e0/VeBg54VON1I/AAAAAAAAMXY/zOvcjaGY1d4/s1600/gun-murders-usa-world.jpg

U.S. gun violence "dwarfs any deaths that happen through terrorism." - President Barack Obama

Found Here: http://all-hat-no-cattle.blogspot.com/

He must be counting the killings done by police.

[Wild Cobra]

What do these statistics mean? Those are just raw figures.

Does the method matter?

If nit guns, knives or something else will be used.

those wanting to reduce guns with legislation will only disarm those who follow the law. Leave them more susceptible to harm if they cannot defend themselves.

Do criminals follow gun laws?

[Wild Cobra]

Add one more to the 300M+

Just finished building this morning
http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s679/thefuzzylumpkins/takedown_zps2xp3oohv.jpg
Are squirrels and rabbits really safer? Not at all. Perfect camping gun and will fit in a small backpack.
http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s679/thefuzzylumpkins/takedown2_zpsjvt242ag.jpg
Heading out now to sight it in, but don't worry I'll be safe and have my head on a swivel. I'll be on the lookout for people with guns at the range, especially blacks with guns.

Ever see what a 22-250 does to a squirrel?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
What squirrel?

[TheSanityAnnex]

Ever see what a 22-250 does to a squirrel?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
What squirrel?
yeah it's an impressive round, about 1,000 more fps than my .17hmr

pictured above is my 10-22 takedown.

[Trill Clinton]

If the black communities don't lead leaders what is your solution to the disproportionate amount of murders black males are committing?

i don't have one. what's yours?

[ChumpDumper]

Does the method matter?

If nit guns, knives or something else will be usedWould you rather be attacked with a gun or a knife?

[The Reckoning]

growing disparity between social classes, melting pot of 300 mil with varying ideologies, completely broken prison system, mental health not addressed, and lack of cultural emphasis on education


i don't own a gun and yes buying a gun is way too easy...but our problems stem from much deeper seeded issues.

[Spurtacular]

New Orleans – 53.2 per 100,000
St. Louis – 35.5 per 100,000
Baltimore – 34.9 per 100,000
Newark - 34.4 per 100,000
Oakland – 31,8 per 100,000
Stockton – 23.7 per 100,000
Kansas City – 22.6 per 100,000
Philadelphia – 21.5 per 100,000
Cleveland – 21.3 per 100,000
Memphis – 20.2 per 100,000
Atlanta – 19.0 per 100,000
Chicago – 18.5 per 100,000



This. Problem ain't guns. Problem is hood rats.

[vy65]

So rather than having the 7% of the population responsible for nearly 50% of the homicides accept responsibility, the solution is what, ban handguns? Assault rifles?

Poverty, lack of education, and glorification of violence -- aren't going to go away with even the most stringent restrictions. People always find a way.

But it's good to see that the assertion in the OP has been all but abandoned.

[boutons_deux]

"solution is what, ban handguns? Assault rifles?"

typical strawman bullshit

"Poverty, lack of education, and glorification of violence"

raise the minimum wage to $15 in the lowest cost areas as base, then $20 uprated for higher cost areas, indexed annually to regional inflation.

America's Corporatocracy empire is violent (MIC pushes it hard), American history has been violent forever, American culture glorifies violence in the media, killing is glorified as a solution.

Education is a tougher problem, but redistribution taxpayer wealth to shit poor, esp "Christian madrasa" charter schools isn't the solution, trashing teacher and public schools aren't solutions.

Raise teacher salaries to be competitive, with higher entry standards so it's fought-for profession with average prospect of staying a teacher for many years (reduce churn, burnout).

[spurraider21]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Ushomicidesbyweapon.svg/846px-Ushomicidesbyweapon.svg.png

[TeyshaBlue]

Oh look. An efficiency graph.

[TeyshaBlue]

Wtf? Value doubles in 12 years and then returns to previous level? Something ain't data kosher here.

[Th'Pusher]

So rather than having the 7% of the population responsible for nearly 50% of the homicides accept responsibility, the solution is what, ban handguns? Assault rifles?

Poverty, lack of education, and glorification of violence -- aren't going to go away with even the most stringent restrictions. People always find a way.

But it's good to see that the assertion in the OP has been all but abandoned.
What's your policy solution for making "the 7% of the population responsible for nearly 50% of the homicides accept responsibility". How are you going to achieve that?

[vy65]

What's your policy solution for making "the 7% of the population responsible for nearly 50% of the homicides accept responsibility". How are you going to achieve that?

We can have that convo, although I'm unclear why it has to be (exclusively) a matter of policy.

But before we do, you need to address the point made here:

Of course not but it is something the liberals on this board ignore talking about. 7% of the population committing 50% of the murders is insane, but let's instead focus on the gun fellators in Plano, TX where the murder rate is like 0.5 per 100,000

Agree or disagree?

[vy65]

That's right.

Dead African American bodies is just a symptom; the ready availability of guns is the most likely proximate cause of the high rate of violent death in the US.

But if you want to use race as a predictor and let all consideration cease with that, please suit yourself.

Most likely proximate cause is a nice hedge. Do you have any evidence, empirical/statistical, or otherwise for such a bold assertion?

[Th'Pusher]

We can have that convo, although I'm unclear why it has to be (exclusively) a matter of policy.

But before we do, you need to address the point made here:

Of course not but it is something the liberals on this board ignore talking about. 7% of the population committing 50% of the murders is insane, but let's instead focus on the gun fellators in Plano, TX where the murder rate is like 0.5 per 100,000

Agree or disagree?
Sure. Black people murder at a disproportionately higher rate than other races. That been established and nobody is refuting the point. I'm not, nor have I seen anyone in this tread, focusing on gun fellators in Plano, TX.

Now let's talk about how you're going to make all those murdering black men "accept responsibility".

[vy65]

So you agree then that any gun control debate that doesn't address the fact that 7% of the population is responsible for 50% of gun deaths is misguided? Or do you think restricting hand gun (or assault rifle, or whatever) ownership addresses the largest source of problem?

I think that the black community that creates a culture that glorifies violence, murder, and materialism should seriously re-evaluate the culture it creates. Don't you?

[vy65]

If movements like BLM were serious about black lives mattering, why don't they focus on creating a different black culture as opposed to playing the din do muffin victim to police violence?

[boutons_deux]

"black community that creates a culture that glorifies violence, murder, and materialism"

white people, in fact AMERICA, has exactly the same culture.

[vy65]

[COLOR=#000000]"black community that creates a culture that glorifies violence, murder, and materialism"

white people, in fact AMERICA, has exactly the same culture.

Says the guy who defended Vester Lee

[boutons_deux]

Says the guy who defended Vester Lee

You Lie. I didn't defend him or murder.

[TeyshaBlue]

In English, please.

[TeyshaBlue]

And yes you did, fucknut.

[boutons_deux]

And yes you did, fucknut.

TB :lol, Boutons Stalker, you lie, too

[TeyshaBlue]

:cry Stop Stalking me! :cry

:lol boutons

[TeyshaBlue]

Everyone shit in you in that thread, fucknut. That's what happens when you defend the batshit crazy shooter.
A cop got killed in Houston. Just waiting for your demented spin.

[lefty]

gun homicides, the one sport every country plays, and USA is World Champion, and perennial, untouchable leader in the Premier League of developed countries.

Got a problem, even just perceived problem (like cop's ego threat)? Shoot somebody. It's The American Way

2nd Amendment!

marans!

Freedom!

home defense! ("Of the female murder victims for whom the relationships to their offenders were known, 37.5 percent were murdered by their husbands or boyfriends.", not by the crazed black hordes which huge raping dicks)

Water the tree!

[boutons_deux]

Everyone shit in you in that thread, fucknut. That's what happens when you defend the batshit crazy shooter.
A cop got killed in Houston. Just waiting for your demented spin.

lots of fucknuts, TB :lol, can't read, won't read, for shit.

You white people think you can fuck over blacks with impunity.

That was one sicko black that didn't, couldn't take it anymore.

Listen to blacks' greivances, you rightwingnut racist. That daily shit from white adds up.

[TeyshaBlue]

Fuck off, Idiot.

Anyone here think I'm a racist besides this pathetic, special needs chimp?

[TeyshaBlue]

C'mon coward. Prove me a racist.

[TeyshaBlue]

Lets go, knuclehead.

[TeyshaBlue]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y64/teyshablue/My-Penis-will-Grill-us-some-Burgers_zpsfe5ff9b3.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/teyshablue/media/My-Penis-will-Grill-us-some-Burgers_zpsfe5ff9b3.jpg.html)

[TeyshaBlue]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y64/teyshablue/ronalds-pimp-hand.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/teyshablue/media/ronalds-pimp-hand.jpg.html)

[Th'Pusher]

So you agree then that any gun control debate that doesn't address the fact that 7% of the population is responsible for 50% of gun deaths is misguided? Or do you think restricting hand gun (or assault rifle, or whatever) ownership addresses the largest source of problem?

I think that restricting ownership would go a long way toward addressing the problem, but it's politically untenable. The guns are out and there is an entrenched lobby set on keeping them there with a shit load of morons who believe they're entitled to access.


I think that the black community that creates a culture that glorifies violence, murder, and materialism should seriously re-evaluate the culture it creates. Don't you?

:lol Ok. So how are you going to accomplish that? Don't limit your response to policy :lol

[Th'Pusher]

I think that the black community that creates a culture that glorifies violence, murder, and materialism should seriously re-evaluate the culture it creates. Don't you?
Maybe you can propose a law that requires melanin heavy people to be more introspective.

[Sean Cagney]

http://www.cityam.com/sites/default/files/sites/default/files/content-editors/images/u41686/Most-dangerous-20-countries-Per-100-000_chartbuilder.png

Damn I got love for Spanish people man but what the fuck is wrong with people in those countries? Are they just naturally fucking crazy ass people with no morals? Not all of them of course but cot damn at that list. Remind me to never visit.

I knew Jamaicans were fucking crazy and Trinidad has it's spots but the list is telling :lol

[Winehole23]

Most likely proximate cause is a nice hedge. Do you have any evidence, empirical/statistical, or otherwise for such a bold assertion?the study posted upstream. please pay attention.

[Winehole23]

thanks for pretending to catch up, it's always such a treat to read your posts!

[Winehole23]

Guns are brutally efficient.
But they are not pulling their own triggers nor formenting intent.
That's where the work beginsabsent most efficient means of killing, deadly intent might be less deadly, no?

[TeyshaBlue]

Agreed.

[DarrinS]

It was worse in the late 80's to mid 90's.

[boutons_deux]

It was worse in the late 80's to mid 90's.

80s, early 90s: crack cocaine epidemic. crack cocaine USERS were getting 30 yrs in NY

[TheSanityAnnex]

I think that restricting ownership would go a long way toward addressing the problem
Racist

[boutons_deux]

Murder Rates Rising Sharply in Many U.S. Cities

MILWAUKEE — Cities across the nation are seeing a startling rise in murders after years of declines, and few places have witnessed a shift as precipitous as this city. With the summer not yet over, 104 people have been killed this year — after 86 homicides in all of 2014.

More than 30 other cities have also reported increases in violence from a year ago. In New Orleans, 120 people had been killed by late August, compared with 98 during the same period a year earlier. In Baltimore, homicides had hit 215, up from 138 at the same point in 2014.

In Washington, the toll was 105, compared with 73 people a year ago. And in St. Louis, 136 people had been killed this year, a 60 percent rise from the 85 murders the city had by the same time last year.

Law enforcement experts say disparate factors are at play in different cities, though no one is claiming to know for sure why murder rates are climbing. Some officials say

intense national scrutiny of the use of force by the police has made officers less aggressive and emboldened criminals, :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

though many experts dispute that theory.

Rivalries among organized street gangs, often over drug turf, and the availability of guns are cited as major factors in some cities, including Chicago.

But more commonly, many top police officials say they are seeing a growing willingness among disenchanted young men in poor neighborhoods to use violence to settle ordinary disputes.

“Maintaining one’s status and credibility and honor, if you will, within that peer community is literally a matter of life and death,” Milwaukee’s police chief, Edward A. Flynn, said. “

And that’s coupled with a very harsh reality, which is the mental calculation of those who live in that strata that it is more dangerous to get caught without their gun than to get caught with their gun.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/01/us/murder-rates-rising-sharply-in-many-us-cities.html?ncid=newsltushpmg00000003

gangs killing over turf and drugs.

Bad Guys with stupidly ready, widespread access to guns. Thanks, NRA/GOA/gun industry/gun fellators/2nd-Amendment-marans!

who disputes the police going hard on criminals? The problem is police, jails going hard on non-violent non-criminals.

[101A]

does being black (or latino) tend to make you a murderer?

Playing Devil's Advocate:

http://www.cityam.com/sites/default/files/sites/default/files/content-editors/images/u41686/Most-dangerous-20-countries-Per-100-000_chartbuilder.png

[CosmicCowboy]

We could cut the murder rate in half overnight if we made it illegal for blacks to own guns.

[101A]

This article kind of hashes where this debate has gone:

http://americablog.com/2013/01/ann-coulter-murder-america-belgium.html


US ‘whites only’ murder rate: 2.6
Denamark 1.0
Ireland 1.2
Norway 0.8
Sweden 0.9
Greece 1.4
Italy 1.4
Spain 1.2
Austria 0.8
France 1.7
Germany 1.2
Switzerland 1.0

[101A]

67% of murders in the US (2003-2010) were committed using a firearm (http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/statistics/Homicide/Homicides_by_firearms.xls). That gives a non-firearms murder rate of 1.8 per 100,000, which is only slightly higher than the rate in the UK (1.5), which has strong gun control laws and a negligible firearm murder rate (0.1).

[101A]

That said, although it should be obvious that there IS a correlation between liberal gun ownership and violent death - it would be very hard to put that Genie back in the bottle. The UK, for example, has had strict gun laws for pretty much ever. If we were to enact such legislation it would probably take quite a while to start experiencing anything like the results they have. During that time, I can imagine a situation where "only criminals have guns", with the criminals well aware of that fact.

Otherwise law-abiding citizens would then be faced with the choice of turning in their firearms, or becoming criminals (simply for the ownership of said firearms).

[boutons_deux]

We could cut the murder rate in half overnight if we made it illegal for blacks to own guns.


that could work, but how about "We could cut the murder rate in half overnight, also cut burglaries by druggies searching stuff to sell, if we cancelled the war on drugs, legalized all of them".

eg, see Portugal's experiment.

[Clipper Nation]

You mention Venezuela, a borderline 3rd world country
Socialism in action.

[CosmicCowboy]

that could work, but how about "We could cut the murder rate in half overnight, also cut burglaries by druggies searching stuff to sell, if we cancelled the war on drugs, legalized all of them".

eg, see Portugal's experiment.

I've always been for that. Not sure it would stop the robberies though. Have you sen what "legal" pot goes for?

Damn. I used to buy pounds for what ounces cost now.

[boutons_deux]

http://images.dailykos.com/images/163679/large/switzerland.jpg?1441910462