PTR: David West doesn't fit with the Spurs' second unit

[Mikeanaro]

Disgusting article, if this has been already posted please delete this thread.

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2015/8/29/9216949/david-west-is-more-a-luxury-than-a-need

[DMC]

For the money West is better than anything else we could have possibly gotten.

[Mikeanaro]

Agreed, dude came for pennies and is willing to do the dirty job for a ring, fuck that writer.

[timtonymanu]

:lol Pounding the Cock
:lol Errors fans
:lol jeebus

[Spurtacular]

Article starts off bad from the outset trying to merely relegate DW to "the fourth big" status.

[timtonymanu]

Diaw/West is undersized but it shouldn't hurt the 2nd unit. Offensively, they will be a terrifying unit to guard. Not to mention, having Manu and Patty in the lineup. I don't see why we need to worry about West, especially on the salary he's playing for.

[Spurtacular]

Despite my prior sentiment, I think the article is a good read. The concerns are valid. The conclusion is assumptive at best.

[apalisoc_9]

West will be the fourth big..behind TD, Aldridge and diaw..

[100%duncan]

For the minimum, dumbass.

[Spurtacular]

West will be the fourth big..behind TD, Aldridge and diaw..

Over-stated at best. West and Diaw serve different functions. And West will play big minutes on TD DNP nights.

[Leetonidas]

Only a fucktard would bitch about West as the 4th big on a vet minimum deal

[Robz4000]

Only a fucktard would bitch about West as the 4th big on a vet minimum deal

[313]

The author may be right, but like others have said he's better than anyone else that would've come for the vet min.

[SpurPadre]

Despite my prior sentiment, I think the article is a good read. The concerns are valid. The conclusion is assumptive at best.

Agreed.

[apalisoc_9]

Like I said, you can't ask for a better 4th big.

[SpurSwag]

I do have legitimate concerns about his fit though, obviously he's better than any other big you can get for the vet min. But Diaw/West on the court at the same time is pretty horrible from a rim protection stand point. Sure, they will only be on the court together against second units, but in general I don't love our big rotation. It just feels weird to me. Aldridge is going to have to accept playing center for long stretches, especially on TD rest nights. The offense will be great, but I've always felt that you need one rim protector on the court at all times, and we honestly only have 2 and they are both starters.

[SpurSwag]

Not that Aldridge is an elite shot blocker or anything, but he's got size and statistically is a good defender around the rim.

[Chris]

:lol Pounding the Cock

:lol

[rmt]

I'm sure Manu and Diaw will find ways to make him fit in. His jumper is still money. He's a sight for sore eyes better than Bonner.

[venitian navigator]

The article has some points. Two things, however.
First: Imho, when the two plaiyng bigs are gonna be west and Diaw, is Diaw that's gonna play center (he did it in Phoenix successfully). He has, offensively, all the skills to play the role except for offensive rebounding...but we're not known as a team tha values that very much. Defensively, maybe he's not a ring protector, but he's intelligent and moves himself well enough for helping.
Second: I think that Boban's minutes (and Bonner's minutes) could be a lot more than the ones of the conventional fifth (and sixth) big.

[Mnky]

People seriously wonder if west will play better than Haynes/errors?

..seriously?

[Silver&Black]

Only a fucktard would bitch about West as the 4th big on a vet minimum deal

Preach brother....

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IiIcETS9_No/UASnart1ceI/AAAAAAAAEyw/QKnKcbkdMS0/s1600/amen.gif

[Chinook]

Only a fucktard would bitch about West as the 4th big on a vet minimum deal

Not that I think West is a bad addition to the team at all, but bringing up concerns with the bench's balance is very valid. The Spurs have depended on their second unit extending leads. If there are major defensive and rebounding problems, it's a big deal, especially since the team has no way of addressing them. There are plenty of ways this next season's roster can implode or at least underachieve, and discussing those isn't stupid or ungrateful. SA is the favorite to win it all, but if they disappoint, it's pretty easy to see how that's going to happen.

[milkyway21]

I think Pop will find a way for D.West to fit in,.

At least nobody would bitch about him if cannot contribute right away while learning the Spur's system..he only signed for a minimum, not $15-20M, right? :rollin

[jeebus]

Pounding the Cock makes the Spurm Project look like a legit website. It's kind of a shame the spurs fanbase has such shitty fan blogs out there.

[Uriel]

Not that I think West is a bad addition to the team at all, but bringing up concerns with the bench's balance is very valid. The Spurs have depended on their second unit extending leads. If there are major defensive and rebounding problems, it's a big deal, especially since the team has no way of addressing them. There are plenty of ways this next season's roster can implode or at least underachieve, and discussing those isn't stupid or ungrateful. SA is the favorite to win it all, but if they disappoint, it's pretty easy to see how that's going to happen.
Bold statement, especially since the national media consensus seems to favor Cleveland and Golden State.

[Uriel]

Would inserting Boban into the 2nd unit remedy this problem?

[Uriel]

Also, another point that this article raises: since West is a poor fit next to Diaw, perhaps the front office would've been better off trading Diaw instead of Splitter. A Splitter / West 2nd unit is much more balanced than a Diaw / West one.

[ffadicted]

Is this a fucking joke? What player would be better at the minimum lmao
Didn't even bother reading such a dumb topic

[Agloco]

Also, another point that this article raises: since West is a poor fit next to Diaw, perhaps the front office would've been better off trading Diaw instead of Splitter. A Splitter / West 2nd unit is much more balanced than a Diaw / West one.

Whenever Splitter is on the court......sure.

[Agloco]

Bold statement, especially since the national media consensus seems to favor Cleveland and Golden State.

Cleveland is the favorite simply because they have three byes before the finals. We're pretty much even up with GSW if not better. The Spurs match up better with them than any other team out there.

[Brian Windhorst]

Rule 1: don't read PTR

Having Anderson at backup SF means we'll have essentially a 3 big lineup.

[SAGirl]

Listen everyone, Kyle Anderson is going to be the backup SF. He can rebound at NBA level, got 21% of defensive rebounds last season. Has length, and good timing. If WEst and Diaw box out the big, Kyle will get that rebound and push the ball ahead like we have seen him do. I'm kind of kidding, but actually if I am serious, it is a big reason why I see him as the backup SF over Simmons. Kyle really is a forward and his size, length and rebounding will supplement Diaw and West nicely. He could box out on switches as well.

[SAGirl]

Having Anderson at backup SF means we'll have essentially a 3 big lineup.

Agree with you here.

[ElNono]

Will bump after the 3-peat

[Mr. Body]

This is why West starts next to Aldridge.

Okay, not really. But West is the third big, Diaw is fourth, because he will be playing more of a swing position. West isn't a Todman-level rebounder and, yes, he doesn't block shots, but otherwise is a good defender. We didn't have rim defenders beyond Duncan last year, anyway. The team will be looking for more mid-range possibilities, not just for Aldridge, and the secret here is West is an even better shooter from that range than Aldridge. Plus we're forgetting West is a tremendous passer.

In short... We didn't have a shot-blocker he's replacing, or even LMA is replacing. Rebounding may be something of a concern but team boarding will work well. West is no slouch in positional defense - the Pacers were a terrific defensive team - and on offense he will be terrific. So...?

[BSfromTX]

Duncan first big to go out, diaw subs at C
Aldridge and diaw leave and Duncan west enter

sometimes Aldridge will have to play "center" with West or diaw

depends if Bogan ever gets normal rotation minutes which I doubt.. We won't see much of Aldridge and Duncan together.

[JeffDuncan]

The article is ignorant, dishonest, wrong, and dipwad stupid.

It sez:
"West ... has averaged more than a 20 percent defensive rebound percentage only once since breaking out on his third season. For comparison, ... Baynes grabbed almost 21 percent.''

In fact, an honest comparison of career DRB% is:

Baynes, 19.9 (playing center)
West, 19.1 (and 19.7 last season, playing a forward position, either power or small)

West did as well rebounding from a forward position as Baynes did from the center position.

I'd post more in response to that chicken dump excuse for an article but it isn't worth the trouble.

Jesus Gomez is full of kobe. You know what kobe is, it's what the neighbor's dog leaves on your lawn.

[Mikeanaro]

I guess Errors would be better, right Yeesoos Gomer?

[Silver&Black]

But West is the third big, Diaw is fourth

:nope

[Mr. Body]

:nope

*fart*

[MaNu4Tres]

Not that I think West is a bad addition to the team at all, but bringing up concerns with the bench's balance is very valid. The Spurs have depended on their second unit extending leads. If there are major defensive and rebounding problems, it's a big deal, especially since the team has no way of addressing them. There are plenty of ways this next season's roster can implode or at least underachieve, and discussing those isn't stupid or ungrateful. SA is the favorite to win it all, but if they disappoint, it's pretty easy to see how that's going to happen.


I think you're wrong if you're just looking at the 2nd unit as a group that only plays with one another. Some critics and fans like yourself make it seem like Pop subs players out in groups -- that is never the case. Staggered minutes in inevitable and I believe the bench players blend really well w/ the starters in terms of fit -- and that is what we should be looking at IMO. I.E: You'll see a lot of TD/Diaw or West/ Kawhi or Green/ Manu/ Mills line ups to start the 2nd quarter in competitive games.

Some starters will play w/ bench & some bench will play w/ starters from the 6-5 minute mark of the 1st til halftime -- then from 6-5 minute mark of 3rd quarter til 6 minute mark in 4th.

The bench won't play exclusively with one another and that's why that article is silly & irrelevant to a degree. IMO

West will play more w/ Duncan or Aldridge, same w/ Diaw.

[bklynspursfan]

I think a Diaw/West pairing would be just fine. West is a solid post player and has that mid range game, and Boris can play pretty much anywhere. The spacing will be there. Who knows, maybe we'll help him add a corner 3 to his game this season

[thousandth]

:nope

It could be possible. Diaw typically starts so slowly at the beginning of the season, on the other hand, West is hungry and ready to show what he can do on this team.

[Silver&Black]

Diaw typically starts so slowly at the beginning of the season

It's called "coasting".....and Diaw is the best at it.

[Nathan89]

Doesn't matter LMA can play 40 minutes if needed in the playoffs.

[barbacoataco]

2 problems with this argument. First of all, West is very strong and is a good defender who has actually improved on defense in the last 3-4 years. Second, how many quality big men with a strong post game do you seen in the 2nd unit of NBA teams?

[thousandth]

It's called "coasting".....and Diaw is the best at it.

If he takes it easy again, West could get Diaw's spot as 3rd big man on the team.

[Solid D]

Some good points in the article but Mr. Gomez only gave one sentence to one of David West's key benefits to an offense - the "pick and pop." It's not just a weapon for when the Spurs' offense is struggling. The two-man game is huge for exploitation of match-ups and there are few pivots who have been more deadly from mid-range off a pick and pop than West. No one cared about Splitter on ball screens. West is a different story...as is Aldridge. His dead-eye midrange weakens lane congestion for the dribble-drive and punishes switches.

[Mr. Body]

Some good points in the article but Mr. Gomez only gave one sentence to one of David West's key benefits to an offense - the "pick and pop." It's not just a weapon for when the Spurs' offense is struggling. The two-man game is huge for exploitation of match-ups and there are few pivots who have been more deadly from mid-range off a pick and pop than West. No one cared about Splitter on ball screens. West is a different story...as is Aldridge. His dead-eye midrange weakens lane congestion for the dribble-drive and punishes switches.

He's also a very good and willing passer for his position.

[Solid D]

He's also a very good and willing passer for his position.

True. He's traditionally been a very good FT shooter, too although he's dropped down into the mid .700s the past 2-3 years. Coach Engelland might be able to help him boost that back up near .800 if he stays in good shape.

[BillMc]

Some good points in the article but Mr. Gomez only gave one sentence to one of David West's key benefits to an offense - the "pick and pop." It's not just a weapon for when the Spurs' offense is struggling. The two-man game is huge for exploitation of match-ups and there are few pivots who have been more deadly from mid-range off a pick and pop than West. No one cared about Splitter on ball screens. West is a different story...as is Aldridge. His dead-eye midrange weakens lane congestion for the dribble-drive and punishes switches.

Nice take.

[benefactor]

Solid D...working PTC in the paint with a solid, fundamental post move...off the glass...foul...and 1.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

I think a Diaw/West pairing would be just fine. West is a solid post player and has that mid range game, and Boris can play pretty much anywhere. The spacing will be there. Who knows, maybe we'll help him add a corner 3 to his game this season
Nobody is worried about Diaw/West on offense. It's the defense...

[UNT Eagles 2016]

On TD DNP-OLD nights... Boban has to play. Aldridge cannot play center for 48 minutes on any night. You can give him 40 minutes, 25 at center... that's the limit. Boban needs to play 15-20 on those nights; maybe we can get away with 5-10 minutes of small ball against the opponent's scrubs.

[BillMc]

Nobody is worried about Diaw/West on offense. It's the defense...

With the undersized (Patty), old (Manu) and slow (KA), I'm more worried about the 2nd units' perimeter defense. That said we have so much talent and so much experience in our second unit, with some promising guys in our 3rd unit as well, we should be able to simply outscore the other team's scrubs most nights.

[Mugen]

Yeah, we should have told him to fuck off when he said he'd leave 11mil on the table to get a ring.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

With the undersized (Patty), old (Manu) and slow (KA), I'm more worried about the 2nd units' perimeter defense. That said we have so much talent and so much experience in our second unit, with some promising guys in our 3rd unit as well, we should be able to simply outscore the other team's scrubs most nights.
I like Simmons as the backup SF instead of Anderson, who isn't really functional on either end. Also, I'm sure Danny Green plays majority of those minutes, since he likely subs out at the first official timeout break (5-6 minute mark) for Manu. When Kawhi subs out near the end of the 1st/3rd quarter, Danny returns. Eventually in the 2nd/4th, Kawhi returns for Manu, and you might see Manu for Green again depending on what Pop wants at the end of the half/game. Don't really need a 4th wing to play hardly any important minutes, barring injury.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The Spurs need to score more points than the other team. The idealization of how to do that will come from Popovich and his staff.

West sharing the floor with Chandler, Hibbert, and Okafor isn't 'damning' either. It means that he has to share rebounds and weakside rotation opportunities which gives the complete opposite slant on his statistical critique. This notion that he has 'never played it before' is exactly what I am talking about. Popovich used guys like Ferry and Horry at the 5. We've seen the turd towers of Blair/Bonner/Diaw for years. West's career is double digits long and he has played long minutes doing all kinds of things. I think Pop will manage.

In the NBA today if you want to talk about defense you need to talk about the pick and roll where West is very good. He will also step in front of drives and try to draw charges like all Spurs do. For all of the gifs the author plays West is not a coward.

I love Baynes but Indiana would run their offense through West when it bogged down. Baynes set monster screens but half the roster was scared to pass him the ball because he was hamfisted. Baynes would also struggle out in space defending against athletic forwards. We will miss his rotations but there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Actually having two mobile backup forwards will give Popovich a lot more looks to matchup with Duncan and Marjanovic or he could just go small like most of the NBA. If you want someone to scapegoat your Baynes angst on I recommend Boban.

[Birn]

Diaw can also play the 3 for stretches.

[benefactor]

Diaw can also play the 3 for stretches.
Probably not...but LMA will play a lot of minutes. LMA/West will be a devastating front line against most benches...and Diaw/West against small ball front lines will be effective as well.

[#2!]

I think you're wrong if you're just looking at the 2nd unit as a group that only plays with one another. Some critics and fans like yourself make it seem like Pop subs players out in groups -- that is never the case.

I think/hope Pop will adjust to make the rest of your post true, but this statement is incorrect. Pop did 4-5 man hockey subs frequently last year. I didn't like it, and thought it wasn't good for the team to have 5 cold players enter at once.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The article seems to suggest the Diaw/West combo would play significant minutes against starting line-ups, which is very unlikely. They have deficiencies that are obvious but how many teams have 2nd units that could exploit them?

[Agloco]

The article seems to suggest the Diaw/West combo would play significant minutes against starting line-ups, which is very unlikely. They have deficiencies that are obvious but how many teams have 2nd units that could exploit them?

This. It was written as if West and Diaw are going to see significant minutes together against other teams starters. That might be true in specific instances but certainly won't be the norm.

[benefactor]

P:cryunding the C:cryck is just salty because they didn't bring back Err:cryrs.

[Birn]

Probably not...but LMA will play a lot of minutes. LMA/West will be a devastating front line against most benches...and Diaw/West against small ball front lines will be effective as well.

Probably so for stretches depending on matchups. Diaw is a decent ball handler and is capable of guarding some 3's. He was able to effectively guard LeBron in the 2013 finals for some decent stretches.

[Solid D]

just salty because they didn't bring back Err:cryrs.

Jeff Ayers = Felton Spencer, Shawnelle Scott, Amal McCaskill, Mengke Bateer.

In fact Bateer was better because he brought Jimmy Chang with him.

[JWest596]

Until West even plays at least one complete game (for pete's sake) and is comfortable and knowledgeable with the Spurs system. Conclusions that he doesn't fit are just beyond retarded and stupid. It's off season and the boards are bored but that article's conclusion was just speculative crap. I think he's going to be a sensation because he wants a ring and wants to be a part of something unique and if a "Superteam" can be made and I have my doubts on this concept. David can be the first Spur with a number retired, the most rings with the fewest years as a Spurs because he really gave up a lot of cash for the opportunity. It's going to be an interesting season whatever with a highly motivated David West and team.

Time will tell. Go Spurs GO!

[bklynspursfan]

Nobody is worried about Diaw/West on offense. It's the defense...

I mean against most teams 2nd units, they'll be just fine. Pop will figure out what/who works with who on what end. There will be a lot of trial and error. It's going from Diaw/Baynes to Diaw/West. Duncan could even get subbed out earlier for either West/Diaw and then he can play more minutes with the 2nd unit if need be and close out games.

There will be a lot of tinkering to be done

[UNT Eagles 2016]

I mean against most teams 2nd units, they'll be just fine. Pop will figure out what/who works with who on what end. There will be a lot of trial and error. It's going from Diaw/Baynes to Diaw/West. Duncan could even get subbed out earlier for either West/Diaw and then he can play more minutes with the 2nd unit if need be and close out games.

There will be a lot of tinkering to be done
as long as that tinkering doesn't lead to a 12–9 start and 5 or 6 games behind the highest seed, we can't afford to dig ourselves a huge hole early this year like we did in past years including last year tbh

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Jeff Ayers = Felton Spencer, Shawnelle Scott, Amal McCaskill, Mengke Bateer.

In fact Bateer was better because he brought Jimmy Chang with him.
Blasts from the past :toast


Cherokee Parks, tbh... Melvin Ely, Jackie Butler sans the shitty contract

[KaiRMD1]

Can't dismiss valid concerns. All will be answered once the rodeo road trip has concluded though, possibly even sooner

[TheDoctor]

What a salty article. David West hasn't play a single minute along Diaw and PTC is already labeling that combo as "bad". I bet the West/Diaw dupla will be pretty efficient against small ball lineups. Unlike Pop when played Jeff fucking Ayres in all instances. I mean, those guys favour Pendergraph over David freaking West? That's really sad. Jesus Gomes must be one of the most lonely and deppressive writers :'(

[z0sa]

Didnt read

[Gagnrath]

2 problems with this argument. First of all, West is very strong and is a good defender who has actually improved on defense in the last 3-4 years. Second, how many quality big men with a strong post game do you seen in the 2nd unit of NBA teams?

Not many but you do see a good number of small forwards and guards who use their driving game to get their shooting night started. After they hit a couple of lay-ups or pull up bunny shots then they are feeling it and become dangerous.... Which is why you want a fairly strong rim protector on the floor most of the time. It also helps the perimeter players alot on defense if you can funnel a drive into your friendly local big. While Splitter wasn't really a shot blocker he contest pretty well on help D and Baynes isn't bad at it. I'm actually looking forward to baynces having a bit of a break-out in detroit.

[sasaint]

I think you're wrong if you're just looking at the 2nd unit as a group that only plays with one another. Some critics and fans like yourself make it seem like Pop subs players out in groups -- that is never the case. Staggered minutes in inevitable and I believe the bench players blend really well w/ the starters in terms of fit -- and that is what we should be looking at IMO. I.E: You'll see a lot of TD/Diaw or West/ Kawhi or Green/ Manu/ Mills line ups to start the 2nd quarter in competitive games.

Some starters will play w/ bench & some bench will play w/ starters from the 6-5 minute mark of the 1st til halftime -- then from 6-5 minute mark of 3rd quarter til 6 minute mark in 4th.

The bench won't play exclusively with one another and that's why that article is silly & irrelevant to a degree. IMO

West will play more w/ Duncan or Aldridge, same w/ Diaw.

You hit the nail on the head. This ain't hockey, yet. But with all of his options, Pop may eventually get there.

[Dingle Barry]

We had fucking Bonner and Blair protecting the rim for the second unit just a few years ago. I ain't going to spend one second worrying about Diaw and West. At least these guys are legit NBA talents.

[Birn]

PTR tries to incorporate analytics into their articles but they fail miserably in their interpretation. Their analytics tell them that Ayers is a better fit than West and they actually write that with a straight face. They just don't know how to use analytics. You don't need analytics to tell you that a proven nba all star would fit your team. They make the ridiculous assumption that we plan to play the same system. They fail to understand that coaches like Pop adjust to their personnel to maximize the potential of the team. I expect Pop will be experimenting with a ton of lineups given the fact that we have so many new players.

The way they interpreted their analytics the following players would also be a bad fit:

Blake Griffin
Draymond Green
Paul Millsap
Zach Randolph
Joakim Noah

Case closed. PTR is a joke.

[Birn]

PTR tries to incorporate analytics into their articles but they fail miserably in their interpretation. Their analytics tell them that Ayers is a better fit than West and they actually write that with a straight face. They just don't know how to use analytics. You don't need analytics to tell you that a proven nba all star would fit your team. They make the ridiculous assumption that we plan to play the same system. They fail to understand that coaches like Pop adjust to their personnel to maximize the potential of the team. I expect Pop will be experimenting with a ton of lineups given the fact that we have so many new players.

The way they interpreted their analytics the following players would also be a bad fit:

Blake Griffin
Draymond Green
Paul Millsap
Zach Randolph
Joakim Noah

Case closed. PTR is a joke.

[SAGirl]

Not many but you do see a good number of small forwards and guards who use their driving game to get their shooting night started. After they hit a couple of lay-ups or pull up bunny shots then they are feeling it and become dangerous.... Which is why you want a fairly strong rim protector on the floor most of the time. It also helps the perimeter players alot on defense if you can funnel a drive into your friendly local big. While Splitter wasn't really a shot blocker he contest pretty well on help D and Baynes isn't bad at it. I'm actually looking forward to baynces having a bit of a break-out in detroit.
I look forward to watching some of both Baynes and Cojo. I read an intervew of Van Gundy saying that he's seen Baynes play a more significant offensive role in international play with the Australian team and he feels that Baynes may have been limited to a degree in San Antonio, playing a smaller role for a deep team with better big man options than him. However, Van Gundy will have him in a different and featured role in the bench, funneling some plays through him. I really liked Baynes TBH, he had a lot of grit. I think Pistons fans will love him.

[DMC]

Not that I think West is a bad addition to the team at all, but bringing up concerns with the bench's balance is very valid. The Spurs have depended on their second unit extending leads. If there are major defensive and rebounding problems, it's a big deal, especially since the team has no way of addressing them. There are plenty of ways this next season's roster can implode or at least underachieve, and discussing those isn't stupid or ungrateful. SA is the favorite to win it all, but if they disappoint, it's pretty easy to see how that's going to happen.
They depended on their 1st unit bailing their asses out, not "extending leads". That's because the 1st unit was lethargic as fuck and Tony didn't make things any better. LMA on the floor changes everything as long as Tony doesn't go hero, but he should have some open lanes and if he's not a total douchebag this season, he'll capitalize on all the attention Kawhi and LMA will draw. Hell he might even pass the ball.

The 2nd unit will be fine. It's Manu and Patty out there, they will up the tempo and if West can get back on offense, he's going to have all the scoring he can handle. Manu to West on the PnR or PnP is going to be epic. I mean, Blair had to finish at the rim, couldn't do anything 10' out. West will flat out destroy you from 20' and in, especially with how open he'll be on those double back screens.

The caveat isn't anything PtR touched on. It's going to be LMA and DW out of position on both ends of the floor for much of the season. That's going to cause limited playing time for West even though Pop will still force the issue. West is a 1 year guy, Pop isn't going to build an offense around him. LMA is the future if he doesn't do something selfish and stupid.

[turb0time]

I've learned to stay away from PTR the past few years. The writers (and even some of the posters) think they are cut from the same winning cloth as the Spurs themselves. I bashed on TP during a Finals live game thread and almost got banned for it. :lmao

[kaji157]

I strongly disagree. With Splitter gone the second unit will need a pick and roll/pop guy. Manu has always needed, in order to create for other, a good pick and roll bigman to call the atention of the defense. Whenever we had that the second unit started everything smothier, Blair, Baynes, even Splitter had this role.
Remember how the second unit suffered last season when Splitter turned into Vagina and Manu had no pass to the inside man, it destroyed our motion.

[GSH]

People who write articles should learn how to properly analyze stats.

First, the writer makes a big deal out of West only having one season with a 20+ DRB%. Well no shit. He was playing PF (one season listed as SF), and he was on the court with guys like Tyson Chandler and Emeka Okafor. They were playing the C position. So, gee, do you think they got a higher percentage of the available defensive rebounds, compared to West? Not only that, but West AVERAGED 19.1 DRB% for his entire career. He has always been the second best rebounder on his teams, next to the C's. Just like you would expect. The truth is, West's DRB% compares pretty closely to Serge Ibaka, and is a lot better than, say, Fabricio Oberto.

Second, West has started every game he's played going back to the 95-96 season. The writer doesn't have a clue how West will fare against a steady diet of backup bigs. He's just making shit up, like pretty much everyone else. He's just not very good at it.

Third, the writer makes a big deal out of West's lack of 3P range. The Spurs have got 3P shooters coming out their ass. West has one of the best mid-range games in the league. One of the things they say in basketball is that "you can't teach height". Well you also can't teach an in-between game apparently, because there just aren't many good ones in the NBA. This dumbshit writer mentions that West has a deadly midrange jumper, and then acts like it's not that big of a deal. My favorite comment was, "For the Spurs, however, three-point shooting from a rotation big is a skill that is missing." Seriously? That's what the Spurs are missing? A rotation big that shoots the 3? If only the Spurs had signed Charlie Villanueva or Channing Frye, they'd be a shoo-in for 6, I guess. Probably one of the most ignorant takes I've seen in a while, and I've read a lot of ignorant takes.

The article also complains that West has shot "only" 192 3-Pointers in a 12 year career, and has made only 25% of those. Kevin Garnett is usually listed as one of the best 3P shooting bigs. In the last 12 seasons, he's shot 208 3P's, and made 23%. Somehow Garnett managed to be an All-Star for 9 of those 12 seasons, even though he shot the 3 worse than David West.

But other than all that - really, really first-rate article.

[LittleCriminal]

I mentioned this threads topic to a friend... He said he has the same problem on 2k..
Wtf??

[Mikeanaro]

PTR tries to incorporate analytics into their articles but they fail miserably in their interpretation. Their analytics tell them that Ayers is a better fit than West and they actually write that with a straight face. They just don't know how to use analytics. You don't need analytics to tell you that a proven nba all star would fit your team. They make the ridiculous assumption that we plan to play the same system. They fail to understand that coaches like Pop adjust to their personnel to maximize the potential of the team. I expect Pop will be experimenting with a ton of lineups given the fact that we have so many new players.

The way they interpreted their analytics the following players would also be a bad fit:

Blake Griffin
Draymond Green
Paul Millsap
Zach Randolph
Joakim Noah

Case closed. PTR is a joke.
Lol, does PTC think Miami was in hesitation mode when Lebron and Bosh were going to play for them? ¨oh no man, Im not sure if Bosh and Lebron can play together, wow now GayRay wants some Cheat too, mmm I think his shooting form is not gonna fit here¨

[Mikeanaro]

I mentioned this threads topic to a friend... He said he has the same problem on 2k..
Wtf??
Then we need to wait until PTC patches the game.

[dunkman]

Pop will manage the bigs minutes to minimize the risk of the Diaw-West line-up, for the few teams that could actually exploit that. Objectively, the Spurs have one of the best bigman rotations in the NBA and on top of that Kawhi can play PF very effectively.

[Russo21]

These writers are deadshits tbh. Just because he is in the second unit doesn't mean he'll only be playing with Diaw anyway. Duncan will most likely be first to be benched then either Diaw or West will come in and play next to LMA. LMA goes to the bench for a rest, Duncan comes back on to play next to Diaw or West. It's not like they will be on the court all the time together just because they start the game from the bench. It's called rotations and Pop will figure that shit out.

[Ice009]

I look forward to watching some of both Baynes and Cojo. I read an intervew of Van Gundy saying that he's seen Baynes play a more significant offensive role in international play with the Australian team and he feels that Baynes may have been limited to a degree in San Antonio, playing a smaller role for a deep team with better big man options than him. However, Van Gundy will have him in a different and featured role in the bench, funneling some plays through him. I really liked Baynes TBH, he had a lot of grit. I think Pistons fans will love him.

I liked Baynes too, but after he was humiliated by both Matt Barnes and Blake Griffin, I couldn't even look at him after those plays. Last year's team didn't show enough physical toughness out there. I really hope that is rectified this season. I love the David West signing in that regard. The moment I first heard that David was interested in coming here, I really, really wanted the Spurs to go after him hard. I'm real happy they got him.

[JeffDuncan]

... I love the David West signing in that regard. The moment I first heard that David was interested in coming here, I really, really wanted the Spurs to go after him hard. I'm real happy they got him.

You and me, too, and everybody who has any sense at all. I'm really looking forward to watching West play for the Spurs.

[TrainOfThought5]

Quality Article. Shitty ST opinions.

If Pop keeps giving Boban the splitter treatment we wont get past the second round.

[TrainOfThought5]

Not that I think West is a bad addition to the team at all, but bringing up concerns with the bench's balance is very valid. The Spurs have depended on their second unit extending leads. If there are major defensive and rebounding problems, it's a big deal, especially since the team has no way of addressing them. There are plenty of ways this next season's roster can implode or at least underachieve, and discussing those isn't stupid or ungrateful. SA is the favorite to win it all, but if they disappoint, it's pretty easy to see how that's going to happen.

Chinookstradamus with high bbiq goods.

[TheGreatYacht]

:lol Pounding the cock

D West proving tonight and recent weeks that he's the man.

[steeledl]

:lol Pounding the cock

D West proving tonight and recent weeks that he's the man.

Yep.. most of the board sold out in this dude after like 10 games. Sad, tbh. He has looked great.

[TheGreatYacht]

Yep.. most of the board sold out in this dude after like 10 games. Sad, tbh. He has looked great.
Yup. Just usual vet rust, tbh. This guy was cut out to be a Spur and he's showing it :tu

[TheGreatYacht]

:lol Pounding the cock

D West proving tonight and recent weeks that he's the man.

[Raven]

cool story bro

[Mikeanaro]

Yes, the article was rushed with no fundaments at all, those writers should pound their cocks each other.

[timtonymanu]

Pounding the Cock is the non-trolling version of hater.

:lol Jeff Errors fans

[Obstructed_View]

If you don't understand why the fact that West started tonight is relevant, then you didn't read the original article, or even the headline.

[Mikeanaro]

If you don't understand why the fact that West started tonight is relevant, then you didn't read the original article, or even the headline.
He´s been rolling for the last 8 games.

[Obstructed_View]

He´s been rolling for the last 8 games.

Actually, it's the last six games, and he's started all but two of those if memory serves.

[TheDoctor]

We're talking here about the same "Spurs' blog" that named Patty Mills a member of Spurs' next BiG3 :lmao

They're fucking on drugs.

[Obstructed_View]

We're talking here about the same "Spurs' blog" that named Patty Mills a member of Spurs' next BiG3 :lmao

They're fucking on drugs.

The competition for mouse clicks is fierce. :lol

[Mikeanaro]

Actually, it's the last six games, and he's started all but two of those if memory serves.
Last 8 since Dec 23 vs Minnesota as bench 13 points 5 reb +10
vs Houston bench 2 points -5
vs Denver Starter 10 points +22
vs Minny Starter 11 points -7 this game every starter except Kiwi sucked it was the bench who carried us to victory
vs Phoenix Starter 4 points +10
vs Houston bench 10 points +2
vs Bucks bench 10 points +5
vs Jazz Starter 14 points +19.

He´s been on a roll starter or not, finding his way with the team, has the same amount of production as a starter or benchwarmer like the numbers are showing, he even has one sucky game as starter and one as a bench player, those pound writers are lame.

[Obstructed_View]

Last 8 since Dec 23 vs Minnesota as bench 13 points 5 reb +10
vs Houston bench 2 points -5
vs Denver Starter 10 points +22
vs Minny Starter 11 points -7 this game every starter except Kiwi sucked it was the bench who carried us to victory
vs Phoenix Starter 4 points +10
vs Houston bench 10 points +2
vs Bucks bench 10 points +5
vs Jazz Starter 14 points +19.

He´s been on a roll starter or not, finding his way with the team, has the same amount of production as a starter or benchwarmer like the numbers are showing, he even has one sucky game as starter and one as a bench player, those pound writers are lame.

If you're including a game where he scored 2 points and went -5, I'm wondering if someone needs to explain to you what "on a roll" means. He's started to produce more when he's been in different lineups, because he struggles in the role they predicted he would struggle in. Maybe time will prove that wrong as well, but right now it's pretty accurate.

[spursistan]

yeah worst Spurs-related site :lol

[SpursFan86]

He doesn't fit particularly well with Diaw because they're both PFs and one of them is forced to play as an undersized C with little rim protection abilities. Pair him with one of Duncan/Aldridge, and things are fine.

West/Duncan net rating = +19.6 net rating
West/Aldridge net rating = +14.9 net rating
West/Diaw net rating = +7.4 net rating

West isn't the most ideal guy to pair with Diaw, but I don't think that means he doesn't fit in well with the 2nd unit period. Play West with the bench guards/wings + Duncan and they'd have success. Play him with the bench guards/wings + Aldridge and they'd have success.

Hell, even when West/Diaw do play together they have success. We're just spoiled, and if a lineup isn't absolutely dominating, that means it's an issue that is a cause for concern :lol No, West/Diaw shouldn't be getting major minutes come playoffs, but for the regular season it's fine and it's a good way to keep Duncan/Aldridge's minutes down.

In general, I think West is fitting in well with this team and will continue to do so going forward. Even if the fit with Diaw isn't perfectly ideal, you can't really ask for more from a 4th big who's making the vet minimum.

[SpurPadre]

He doesn't fit particularly well with Diaw because they're both PFs and one of them is forced to play as an undersized C with little rim protection abilities. Pair him with one of Duncan/Aldridge, and things are fine.

West/Duncan net rating = +19.6 net rating
West/Aldridge net rating = +14.9 net rating
West/Diaw net rating = +7.4 net rating

West isn't the most ideal guy to pair with Diaw, but I don't think that means he doesn't fit in well with the 2nd unit period. Play West with the bench guards/wings + Duncan and they'd have success. Play him with the bench guards/wings + Aldridge and they'd have success.

Hell, even when West/Diaw do play together they have success. We're just spoiled, and if a lineup isn't absolutely dominating, that means it's an issue that is a cause for concern :lol No, West/Diaw shouldn't be getting major minutes come playoffs, but for the regular season it's fine and it's a good way to keep Duncan/Aldridge's minutes down.

In general, I think West is fitting in well with this team and will continue to do so going forward. Even if the fit with Diaw isn't perfectly ideal, you can't really ask for more from a 4th big who's making the vet minimum.

Diaw and West together would produce optimal results against the Dubs, tbh.

[Mikeanaro]

If you're including a game where he scored 2 points and went -5, I'm wondering if someone needs to explain to you what "on a roll" means. He's started to produce more when he's been in different lineups, because he struggles in the role they predicted he would struggle in. Maybe time will prove that wrong as well, but right now it's pretty accurate.
The rolling started at Dec 23, if you want to count just good games its since the last 4 games not the last 6. I have doubts about your ¨on a roll¨ concept too since you are including a 4 point +5 which is nothing ¨on a roll¨ alike.
Nitpicking stuff is just omitting what really happened, his breakout game started Dec 23, since then 3 good games as a bench player, 3 good games as a starter, 1 bad game as a starter and 1 bad game off the bench.
They didnt predict squat... Jeff Errors fans, too much free time I guess.

[Mikeanaro]

Diaw and West together would produce optimal results against the Dubs, tbh.
Like every new assembled piece he needs time, people forget how bad the Heatles were in their first season ´till things got together, Chris Bosh was missing in action and they had a good run, we are doing great .

[Seventyniner]

Diaw and West together would produce optimal results against the Dubs, tbh.

I think this is one reason Pop keeps playing them together. Develop dat chemistry.

[Fireball]

yeah worst Spurs-related site :lol

that's ST tbh

and bumping the thread after a game in which West was a Starter is weird tbh

[UNT Eagles 2016]

I think this is one reason Pop keeps playing them together. Develop dat chemistry.

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1019241/san-antonio-spurs-dejuan-blair-matt-bonner_medium.jpg

Sans the meat, of course.

[MI21]

When was the last time this guy missed a straight on midrange jumpshot, tbh

[Chinook]

Pounding the Cock is the non-trolling version of hater.

:lol Jeff Errors fans

It's more that they thought Ayres was going to be the backup three that discredited them.

[Chinook]

Diaw and West together would produce optimal results against the Dubs, tbh.

Not in the least. Being undersized doesn't give you an advantage if you are also slow. West at his age isn't a defensive counter to anything.

[SpursFan86]

When was the last time this guy missed a straight on midrange jumpshot, tbh

Shooting 59% from 10-16 feet this year, and 51% from 16-23 feet...dude has been absolute money from midrange.

[ceperez]

The correct pairing for West is to play with Duncan. Duncan has +/- 22 last game and West had like a ridiculous shooting percentage, he missed like once in like 8 shots.

[TheGreatYacht]

The correct pairing for West is to play with Duncan. Duncan has +/- 22 last game and West had like a ridiculous shooting percentage, he missed like once in like 8 shots.
We'll see plenty of those two together tbh.

Duncan usually gets subbed out first and LMA/Diaw play a couple of minutes together, which actually looks good at least in the eye test. Then LMA gets subbed out and West comes in, and eventually Pop will bring in Timmy for Boris in the 2/4th quarters.

[hater]

Pounding the cock :lol

What a bunch of incompetent retards :lol

[TheDoctor]

It's more that they thought Ayres was going to be the backup three that discredited them.

But but but... he played with such passion, he clapped hands :lmao

[Mikeanaro]

But but but... he played with such passion, he clapped hands :lmao
Ayres, Chris Copeland and Ronny Turiaf all great clappers, great motivators :cry

[TheGreatYacht]

:wow

[TheDoctor]

PTC's takes :lmao

[spursistan]

:lol

[LakerHater]

Another PTR take:

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2016/3/12/11209580/martin-questionable-fit-kyle-anderson-jonathon-simmons

[Chinook]

This was a particularly big test for him, and I'm glad he passed. However, the article was criticizing a West/Diaw pairing, that that was kept to something of a minimum tonight. Getting more and more obvious however, that if Tim retires, the Spurs should do whatever they can to keep West to play next to LMA. Dude's a perfect bridge player.

[Chinook]

Another PTR take:

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2016/3/12/11209580/martin-questionable-fit-kyle-anderson-jonathon-simmons

Shit, I'm in trouble if PtR agrees with me.

[DMC]

This was a particularly big test for him, and I'm glad he passed. However, the article was criticizing a West/Diaw pairing, that that was kept to something of a minimum tonight. Getting more and more obvious however, that if Tim retires, the Spurs should do whatever they can to keep West to play next to LMA. Dude's a perfect bridge player.

What does a card game have to do with basketball though?

[SpurPadre]

This was a particularly big test for him, and I'm glad he passed. However, the article was criticizing a West/Diaw pairing, that that was kept to something of a minimum tonight. Getting more and more obvious however, that if Tim retires, the Spurs should do whatever they can to keep West to play next to LMA. Dude's a perfect bridge player.

Agree that West is a keeper but shouldn't we look at getting younger in the front court when TD retires?

[Chinook]

What does a card game have to do with basketball though?

I was actually talking about his banjo skills.

[Chinook]

Agree that West is a keeper but shouldn't we look at getting younger in the front court when TD retires?

Yes. But West is good enough for a year or two more. If the Spurs can land a guard like Clarkson in free agency (and I do think LAL will match a max offer sheet, but I'd still be fine with the Spurs offering one and trying to work out a S&T before the moratorium), they can afford for wait until they get more cap space in 2017 or 2018 to get the next big. It's just obvious that D-West is still a legit starter in the league and that he and LMA would work just fine as a starting front court with Kawhi.

[SpurPadre]

Yes. But West is good enough for a year or two more. If the Spurs can land a guard like Clarkson in free agency (and I do think LAL will match a max offer sheet, but I'd still be fine with the Spurs offering one and trying to work out a S&T before the moratorium), they can afford for wait until they get more cap space in 2017 or 2018 to get the next big. It's just obvious that D-West is still a legit starter in the league and that he and LMA would work just fine as a starting front court with Kawhi.

Here's the kicker, though: what if TD comes back next season? What then? It's not like Bertans will be ready.

[SpurPadre]

Yes. But West is good enough for a year or two more. If the Spurs can land a guard like Clarkson in free agency (and I do think LAL will match a max offer sheet, but I'd still be fine with the Spurs offering one and trying to work out a S&T before the moratorium), they can afford for wait until they get more cap space in 2017 or 2018 to get the next big. It's just obvious that D-West is still a legit starter in the league and that he and LMA would work just fine as a starting front court with Kawhi.

Here's the kicker, though: what if TD comes back next season? What then? It's not like Bertans will be ready. And something's gotta give.

[Chinook]

Here's the kicker, though: what if TD comes back next season? What then? It's not like Bertans will be ready.

I mean, that changes nothing about West.

[SpurPadre]

I mean, that changes nothing about West.

Shouldn't it? If we win #6 and TD comes back, we'd have an aged front court coming off what will be a bruising and long path to the title. Who knows how much TD will have left in the tank. I don't know if I'd be too comfortable in having a 36 year old in West logging heavy minutes in that scenario. Maybe it would work for another year but it would be taking a risk without having a younger player out there with fresher legs. And Boban certainly isn't the answer to that, really.

[Kawhitstorm]

Not that I think West is a bad addition to the team at all, but bringing up concerns with the bench's balance is very valid. The Spurs have depended on their second unit extending leads. If there are major defensive and rebounding problems, it's a big deal, especially since the team has no way of addressing them. There are plenty of ways this next season's roster can implode or at least underachieve, and discussing those isn't stupid or ungrateful. SA is the favorite to win it all, but if they disappoint, it's pretty easy to see how that's going to happen.

:wow

[SAGirl]

Yup, it turns out Jesus Gomez from PTR had this one pegged since b4 the season began.
Fit is very important to team success and D'west was cast for a role next to Diaw that had them scheduled to underachieve from the very start to the season it turns out.

[benefactor]

Eh...don't give Pounding the Cock too much credit. Blind squirrel tbh.

[T Park]

morons on a website making fun of a blog for a correct opinion are quiet..

[gambit1990]

If the Spurs can land a guard like Clarkson in free agency (and I do think LAL will match a max offer sheet, but I'd still be fine with the Spurs offering one and trying to work out a S&T before the moratorium).
you were fine with the spurs offering clarkson a max offer? :lmao:lmao:lmao

damn, even the lakers FO is smarter than you, they just gave him that danny green money.

max offer for clarkson :lol

[Chinook]

you were fine with the spurs offering clarkson a max offer? :lmao:lmao:lmao

damn, even the lakers FO is smarter than you, they just gave him that danny green money.

max offer for clarkson :lol

Making yourself look bad in two different ways. But gotta love you bumping old threads trying to make yourself look good.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

For the minimum it was worth the risk. I'm kind of surprised at the way West departed...I figured we'd resign him for a decent deal. Year 1 looks rough for a lot of new Spurs and then year two seems to click.