Buck Harvey: Devin departed: What is possible

[Kori Ellis]

Buck Harvey: Devin departed: What is possible
Web Posted: 09/15/2005 12:00 AM CDT

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA091505.1C.COL.BKNharvey.brown.17ce41ea.html

San Antonio Express-News

The Utah Jazz introduced Devin Brown at a news conference Wednesday, and Brown said the right things.

"I want to say thank you," he told the Jazz in Salt Lake City, "for taking a chance on me."

Utah isn't taking much of a chance. Brown's salary is low by NBA standards, and the franchise can end its two-year deal after next season.

But there's also a chance Utah has a steal. Brown fits with Jerry Sloan and what the Jazz roster already has, and the possibilities are even wilder than an undrafted kid winning a ring with his hometown team.

How wild?

The Spurs could, in six months, wish they had Brown instead of Michael Finley.

Some Spurs fans may already wish for that. Brown was greeted with a standing ovation when he returned from injury last season, and that's rare love for a bit player.

Still, the Spurs did what every franchise would have done. Finley over Brown is an automatic, no-blink decision, especially since their salaries this season will be identical.

Brown said the same. He understands why he had to leave San Antonio.

But those opinions are based on reputations, and time has a way of altering those. Finley's career is clearly on the down side, and Brown's has been affected by injury and a lack of minutes.

These men are closer in ability today than most realize. Finley can shoot and add character to a locker room, but Brown can shoot and add some spirit, too. His push to aid Katrina victims in San Antonio last week wasn't part of a franchise public-relations campaign.

Brown can also defend as Finley can't, and he plays with a fearlessness that rivals Manu Ginobili. He also brings something to the Jazz that Finley will never have again. Young legs.

A moment in January told of that. Then the Spurs were leading the Mavericks by two points with 17 seconds left. Ginobili missed a 3-pointer, and springing from the top of the key, seemingly traveling 20 feet in two strides, Brown grabbed the offensive rebound.

Finley played 45 minutes that night and finished with 15 points on 13 shots. Brown was far more efficient with his 15 minutes, ending with two rebounds and two assists to go with his nine points.

As good as Brown was, his time decreased — which is what can happen on a title team with depth. Brown later put together four games of 20 or more points, showing range and versatility, but then the back injury sidelined him.

Had he not been hurt, how good could his season have been? He likely would have taken Brent Barry's minutes in the playoffs.

The back hasn't apparently bothered Brown this summer as much as it bothered other teams. Only Utah showed interest outside of the Spurs, and the Jazz offered just enough to stop the Spurs from matching.

But that didn't stop the Jazz from gushing Wednesday. From Kevin O'Connor, Utah's vice president of basketball operations: "I think what Devin has brought to us is toughness. He's played on a winning team, certainly. He was our first and only choice to be able to come in and fulfill the things we're going to ask him to do. Defensively, he gives us a presence."

After Gregg Popovich, Sloan will make sense to Brown. And then there's a roster with a gaping hole.

The average age of the Jazz is about 26 years, and the team is loaded with rugged, veteran rebounders. From Andrei Kirilenko to Carlos Boozer to Mehmet Okur.

The Jazz drafted Deron Williams, a smart point guard, meaning Brown will be in a system that shares the ball. Better yet, the only proven player at Brown's position is Gordan Giricek.

This is not exactly the same as playing behind Ginobili.

Brown isn't without flaws. The Spurs, for example, likely laughed Wednesday when Brown said at his news conference that he would like to bring a winning attitude to Utah. "That starts in practice," Brown said.

That might start in practice, but sometimes the Spurs started practice without him.

But these are also the things that responsibility and a new venue can improve. Brown has the mind and the body to elevate his career, and moments last season suggested everything is possible.

And if it happens?

Wild, all right.

[timvp]

Buck Harvey gets it.

[Marcus Bryant]

Had he not been hurt, how good could his season have been? He likely would have taken Brent Barry's minutes in the playoffs.

Sooner or later some here will grasp what was lost over 1 year for $2.5 mil. Perhaps it will be when a 35 year old Brent Barry is the Spurs' primary backup swing next year.

[T Park]

give up now....

weve lost a 12th man CBA player.

[T Park]

1 year

Spurs cant resign him next year?!

[Marcus Bryant]

Spurs cant resign him next year?!

Probably not since the Jazz hold a team option for the 2006-07 season.

[TheWriter]

Oh god, we win a title with this guy playing next to zero minutes and all of a sudden this is a great fuckin' loss?

Please.

[Marcus Bryant]

give up now....

weve lost a 12th man CBA player.


Stay Puff needs to stick to taking money from kids.

[Marcus Bryant]

Oh god, we win a title with this guy playing next to zero minutes and all of a sudden this is a great fuckin' loss?

Please.


Chamber of Commerce needs to watch more basketball.

[MannyIsGod]

Chamber of Commerce needs to watch more basketball.
:lmao

I disagree with you Marcus, but that was just funny as hell.

[DieMrBond]

Brown isn't without flaws. The Spurs, for example, likely laughed Wednesday when Brown said at his news conference that he would like to bring a winning attitude to Utah. "That starts in practice," Brown said.


Im not sure i read that right... Devin had trouble getting to practices and stuff? Is that right? Is that just common knowledge and im severely slow/and or out of the loop?

[TheWriter]

Im not sure i read that right... Devin had trouble getting to practices and stuff? Is that right? Is that just common knowledge and im severely slow/and or out of the loop?

Ding! ding! ding!

[coopdogg3]

I didn't know that about Devin and practice and all that. He just struck me as a guy who would show up early for practice. *shrug* Learn something new everyday I suppose.

coopdogg3

[Nikos]

Devin will get his chance to contribute as a member of the Jazz.

He was a very nice bench player for the team in the 0304 playoffs and the 0405 season. But he was unlucky with his back injury happening when it did.

Ultimately I think the Spurs would rather have excellent shooters as perimeter backups rather than Devin, especially considering his injury last season. The Spurs are probabably thinking the team needs shooting more than Devin given the existing strengths of the team.

I liked what Devin brought in the 04 playoffs and this past season. But his injury was just an unlucky thing to happen. He may very well have gotten the bulk load of the playoff minutes coming off the bench, instead of Barry.

[DesiSpur_21]

Im not sure i read that right... Devin had trouble getting to practices and stuff? Is that right? Is that just common knowledge and im severely slow/and or out of the loop?

I think he missed practice more than a couple of times (some for valid reasons),- iirc he didn't even bother to let Pop know abt it.,

[Kori Ellis]

Devin had a rep of being late to practice for a while. He also missed a practice right after he got signed (he called though). The Express-News has written about it a few times.

[T Park]

to stick to taking money from kids

link oh wonderous one??? Orrrrr you pulling BS from your ass as usual.

[T Park]

Devin had trouble getting to practices and stuff?

Yeah, but come on, the Spurs shoulda gave him 5 million his own recliner and a free vending machine.

But hey, if they dont do everything Marcus wants, they are cheap.

[milkyway21]

Devin had a rep of being late to practice for a while. He also missed a practice right after he got signed (he called though). The Express-News has written about it a few times.:lol

i just wish Devin have a wonderful year in Utah, i would cheer for himhttp://www.smileys.ws/sm/action/00000033.gif

[remingtonbo2001]

Devin was a very social person. When I say social, I mean SOCIAL. He had many, many late nights, or early mornings I suppose. It was known, at least from my standpoint and information, that some of his personal actions were irresponsible. It was nothing criminal, but more or less, more of a personal standpoint. In terms of the Spurs Organization, It wasn't so much that he had a bad attitude, as he was very personable, but might have been his care-free attitude, which may have bothered some, or may have been taken has immature.

[milkyway21]

speaking of winning attitude here's one article about Brown that I find kind of funny...

Brown brings 'winning attitude' to Jazz backcourt
Sep. 14, 2005
CBS SportsLine.com wire reports




SALT LAKE CITY -- Devin Brown took the blame when the lights went out for a moment during his news conference Wednesday.

"Sorry. I was shooting a little bit earlier," quipped Brown, whose new team -- the Utah Jazz -- can only hope his shooting touch is that good.

The Jazz on Wednesday introduced the 26-year-old Brown, who played in 135 NBA games with San Antonio and Denver over the past three seasons and averaged 5.6 points. He's going from a reserve role with the Spurs to a possible starting spot for the Jazz, who have missed the playoffs the past two seasons.

"When you're growing up and developing in this league and you're on a team like San Antonio, you're exposed to a lot," Brown said. "A lot of the things we did down in San Antonio was winning. And that's one of my main things I want to bring with me here -- is a winning attitude."

Brown was born north of Salt Lake City in Ogden, but moved away when he was a baby and was raised in San Antonio.

Brown is the third player to be picked up by the Jazz in the last two months, joining free agent point guard Milt Palacio and center Greg Ostertag, who is returning to Utah after a disappointing year in Sacramento.

Utah's need for a shooting guard developed when free agent Raja Bell, whose market value shot up in his two-year stay with the Jazz, left for Phoenix. The Jazz have Gordan Giricek and rookie C.J. Miles, but Miles is coming straight out of high school and is only 18 years old.

Brown is still young enough to fit in to Utah's rebuilding plan and has some experience. And after making it to the league after going undrafted out of Texas-San Antonio three years ago, he knows how to work hard.

"I think what Devin has brought to us is some toughness. He's played on a winning team," Jazz vice president for basketball operations Kevin O'Connor said in a conference call from Hawaii. "Every year he's gotten better."

Brown is joining a lineup that includes former All-Star Andrei Kirilenko, Carlos Boozer, Mehmet Okur and Matt Harpring. There is also coach Jerry Sloan, entering his 18th season coaching the Jazz.

Brown is used to playing for Spurs coach Gregg Popovich, who like Sloan can be easily agitated and quite vocal.
"I think it will be real easy," Brown said of the transition. "One of the first things that Kevin O'Connor said to me is 'You're going to hear a lot of the same adjectives."' :lmao :lmao

[Solid D]

I hated to see Devin leave from a personal standpoint (he's one of SA's own).

Let's look at Finley and the old legs take for a minute. Yes, he is an older player and yes, Michael has had some injuries. The facts are this: Last season in the playoffs, Avery Johnson played Michael Finley 37.8 min./game in the playoffs (39.3 min./game in the series they won vs. Houston while shooting .456 from the field). That 37.8 min./game equals the Spurs' top floor-time guy in the playoffs, Tim Duncan (37.8).

Michael won't be used that many minutes for the Spurs, but people forget that Dallas really leaned a lot on Michael and they were no slouch - 58 wins, 4th best record in the regular season. This guy is still a big-time player and he will now have a few less bone chips floating around to bother him along the way.

[DesiSpur_21]

I hated to see Devin leave from a personal standpoint (he's one of SA's own).

Let's look at Finley and the old legs take for a minute. Yes, he is an older player and yes, Michael has had some injuries. The facts are this: Last season in the playoffs, Avery Johnson played Michael Finley 37.8 min./game in the playoffs (39.3 min./game in the series they won vs. Houston while shooting .456 from the field). That 37.8 min./game equals the Spurs' top floor-time guy in the playoffs, Tim Duncan (37.8).

Michael won't be used that many minutes for the Spurs, but people forget that Dallas really leaned a lot on Michael and they were no slouch - 58 wins, 4th best record in the regular season. This guy is still a big-time player and he will now have a few less bone chips floating around to bother him along the way.

I agree. Some people are making way too much about this young Vs aging SF, but short term goal for spurs is to REPEAT (that is one of the things they have to achieve) and Finely fits perfectly fine. With no guaranteed recovery from his back issues, it was not a given that he can log heavy minutes and be productive. We are talking about a solid guy in Finley, who can give quality 15-20 minutes and imo still has a solid 2 yrs (irrespective of where he goes next season).

Worrying beyond 2005-6 is a little too early for us (i mean who are not attached to spurs org's decision making). It's not like we have a dumass mgmt. who have no idea what they are doing.

[exstatic]

How to Ru(i)n an NBA Franchise - Isaiah Thomas

Chapter One - Give your #5 wing player/IR guy a multi year, multi miliion dollar contract, even though he has disk problems.

[CharlieMac]

If his back turns out to be fine, he's gonna blow up in Utah with more minutes.

[Ocotillo]

Wish him well and he will get more PT in Utah. I would like to have kept him but this will be good for the kid.

[spurster]

Buck Harvey:

If, if, if, if Devin Brown turns out to be better than Michael Finley this year, then the Spurs will be sorry. My basis for this was that Devin outplayed Finley for 2 minutes in one game last season.

[pjjrfan]

the kid is a talent, of that there is no doubt, the thing that surprised me the most from watching him the last 2 years is how incredibly strong he is, Devin has the ability to punish defenders when he drives on them, he reminds me of Vinnie Johnson with his strong drives to the basket. Not the shooting, but his physical presense.

I read a couple of time last year, where Bruce would take him aside and talk to him about his work ethic. In fact in an interview on one of the Sunday night sports shows, Bowen said he was dissappointed in Devins attitude, so it's not something that was hush hush, although, I don't remember it being that bad of an issue.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Finley played 45 minutes that night and finished with 15 points on 13 shots. Brown was far more efficient with his 15 minutes, ending with two rebounds and two assists to go with his nine points.

I could pull out a game where Rasho had better numbers than Duncan, doesn't mean he's better.


How to Ru(i)n an NBA Franchise - Isaiah Thomas

Chapter One - Give your #5 wing player/IR guy a multi year, multi miliion dollar contract, even though he has disk problems.

^^^^^ rack

:lmao

[Kip Fanatic]

It was kind of sad to see Devin go because he's a SA product. However, I sign Finley if I have the chance if I am the Spurs GM. Without a doubt. Finley is not going to play more than 20-25 minutes a game next season unless an injury takes place. The Spurs did what every other team wanted to do, which was sign Finley. The only teams mentioned when the whole "who will sign Finley" thing was going on were Miami, SA, Phoenix, and Minn. Why? Those were the only teams Finley invited. However, I guarantee you that every team that was in need of a wing player was calling Finley's agent. No doubt. Why? Because this guy can play. Period. Yes he is getting older, but the Spurs don't want him to be the go to guy every night. All he has to do is come off the bench and provide a solid 20+ minutes.

[team-work]

Even the most enthusiatic supporters for NVE and Finley can't deny that they are on the downside of their careers. Whether the stuffs left in former star players are more than those of an unproven(?) player remains to be seen.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

There is also coach Jerry Sloan, entering his 18th season coaching the Jazz.

Brown is used to playing for Spurs coach Gregg Popovich, who like Sloan can be easily agitated and quite vocal.
"I think it will be real easy," Brown said of the transition. "One of the first things that Kevin O'Connor said to me is 'You're going to hear a lot of the same adjectives."'

This is a big reason why I think that Devin will excel in Utah. Unlike a headcase like Carlos Arroyo he's going to be able to handle a hard nosed coach like Sloan. If Boozer and AK-47 stay healthy they could take their division. Seattle lost some key guys in the offseason, Minnesota is still Minnesota, the Blazers have a lot of young potential but Nate's going to need a little time to make that happen. That just leaves the Nuggets. Should be an interesting battle for the Northwest championship.

[Marcus Bryant]

How to Ru(i)n an NBA Franchise - Isaiah Thomas

Chapter One - Give your #5 wing player/IR guy a multi year, multi miliion dollar contract, even though he has disk problems.


That would be appropriate, if what the Spurs had to match was anything more than 1 season at $2.5 mil.

[Marcus Bryant]

If his back turns out to be fine, he's gonna blow up in Utah with more minutes.

Then we can talk about how great it is to admire Holt Cat's profit margin while the Spurs struggle to find perimeter talent next summer.

[Marcus Bryant]

It was kind of sad to see Devin go because he's a SA product. However, I sign Finley if I have the chance if I am the Spurs GM. Without a doubt. Finley is not going to play more than 20-25 minutes a game next season unless an injury takes place. The Spurs did what every other team wanted to do, which was sign Finley. The only teams mentioned when the whole "who will sign Finley" thing was going on were Miami, SA, Phoenix, and Minn. Why? Those were the only teams Finley invited. However, I guarantee you that every team that was in need of a wing player was calling Finley's agent. No doubt. Why? Because this guy can play. Period. Yes he is getting older, but the Spurs don't want him to be the go to guy every night. All he has to do is come off the bench and provide a solid 20+ minutes.

Sure. But what if you could have kept Brown while adding Finley? With Finley under a 1 year deal along with NVE, keeping Brown around looks less like a luxury and more like a necessity.

Fuck it, soon enough those of you so willing to let (and in some select cases, cheer) Holt Cat force bad basketball decisions will see the light.

[coopdogg3]

And if Devin's injury flares up and he shows that he's not a great talent. Then we can admire our healthy profit margin in the warm glow of an NBA Championship. Guess we'll see next year how it all plays out. I am looking forward to seeing what Brown does with some PT, Sloan seems like a good coach for him.

coopdogg3

[TwoHandJam]

Then we can talk about how great it is to admire Holt Cat's profit margin while the Spurs struggle to find perimeter talent next summer.
I think the pain might be substantially lessened if we're celebrating a back-to-back title.

[50 cent]

That would be appropriate, if what the Spurs had to match was anything more than 1 season at $2.5 mil.
Which translates to $5.0 mil when you consider being over the lux tax threshold. Too much for your 5th wing that has a history of an incurabale back injury that will probably be on the IR for much of the season. Devin is from SA and loves it here. If he gets over his injury and excels in Utah for 2 years with the additional playing time, the Spurs will probably have another chance to bring him back one day. Let another team pay for this big what if.

[Marcus Bryant]

Then the commitment is only one year and at least we know we have an ownership that is willing to make the effort to win more championships no matter what.

Of course, that is ignoring the issue that if the Spurs thought his back was that serious, with the Jazz showing significant interest the Spurs could have at least forced a trade to get something in return.

[Marcus Bryant]

I think the pain might be substantially lessened if we're celebrating a back-to-back title.


Let us hope.

[ChumpDumper]

Training camp hasn't even started and we already have this season's martyr.

Will Devin take up more bandwidth than Malik?

Only time will tell.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

That would be appropriate, if what the Spurs had to match was anything more than 1 season at $2.5 mil.

Don't trivialize this, you're more CBA savvy than this. You're talking about 5 million, not 2.5.


Then the commitment is only one year and at least we know we have an ownership that is willing to make the effort to win more championships no matter what.

Yes, because we all know this team has no chance of winning a championship without a 5 PPG 12th man with a bad back.

[Marcus Bryant]

Which translates to $5.0 mil when you consider being over the lux tax threshold. Too much for your 5th wing that has a history of an incurabale back injury that will probably be on the IR for much of the season.


Not too much if you are about doing whatever it takes to win a championship and in today's NBA, that price for a young guard isn't extravagant.

And you're looking at that in a vacuum. With so much of the Spurs' great perimeter talent not under contract past next season, keeping a solid role player like Brown around is less of a luxury and more of a necessity.




Devin is from SA and loves it here. If he gets over his injury and excels in Utah for 2 years with the additional playing time, the Spurs will probably have another chance to bring him back one day. Let another team pay for this big what if.

So great, the Spurs lose a talented player and they lose him for nothing. Not because the Spurs were asked to pay for a "big what if", but rather a 1 year contract

Aren't you guys basketball fans?

[Mark in Austin]

Spin it however you want, but the Spurs passed on Devin because they didn't wan't to spend $2.5 million and reduce the check they get from the lux tax system.

The following are facts:

Van Exel has a 1 year deal

Finley has a 1 year deal

Next season Barry will be 35 (correct me if I'm wrong here - I'm going by memory)

Devin's deal was 1 year, $2.5 million with a team option for a second year, not a multi-year high dollar contract, as some here are implying.

The Spurs did not make their decision based on "what was best for Devin's development".

Next summer, your swing rotation could be Manu, and a pair of players in their mid thirties.
__________________________________________________ __

Marcus isn't advocating signing Devin because it would dramatically help the team this year. It's next year that has him (legitamately) concerned. They should have viewed this years deal as a $2.5 million insurance policy for next summer, because it is unlikely that they're going to find anybody else that brings what Devin does on both ends of the court in that price range.

So what if his back is bad? The Spurs ate more salary when the dumped Ron Mercer. For the length and amount of the contract, it was a risk worth taking.

The Spurs should have kept him.

[Marcus Bryant]

Don't trivialize this, you're more CBA savvy than this. You're talking about 5 million, not 2.5.

The contract was for $2.5 mil. My statement is not incorrect. Assigning that extra lux tax to Brown exclusively, when you have dead weight like Radoslav on the roster, is a tad bit unfair and misleading.




Yes, because we all know this team has no chance of winning a championship without a 5 PPG 12th man with a bad back.

What happens when Finley's knee acts up? What happens when NVE's does too? If we are going to start bringing up old injuries then those are a couple of worrisome ones right there. Why not have some more depth? You guys like to point out Brown's injury problems but ignore some other rather significant ones in the rotation.

And again, the Spurs lost talent for no compensation. I've yet to see any of the Holt Cat apologists defend that.

[ducks]

what if

DUNCAN gets hurt would spurs win a title then if they had devin brown?


quit playing the what if game


spurs may even sign big dog and he is capable of putting up 20 points if finley gets hurt

[Marcus Bryant]

So what if his back is bad? The Spurs ate more salary when the dumped Ron Mercer. For the length and amount of the contract, it was a risk worth taking.

The Spurs should have kept him.


No kidding. The Spurs have paid more for end of the bench players who were seldom used. Another is Steve Smith.

Why make Devin Brown the fall guy for the entire lux tax distribution the Spurs would have lost by retaining Brown when you have Radoslav slated to make $6.7 mil in 2005-06?

And again, who cares if the Spurs lose a slight fraction of the lux tax distributions? I don't. I'm a fan of the team, not ownership.

[Marcus Bryant]

what if

DUNCAN gets hurt would spurs win a title then if they had devin brown?


quit playing the what if game


spurs may even sign big dog and he is capable of putting up 20 points if finley gets hurt


What? I can't criticize the Spurs? Is this some other forum I have logged into?

[ChumpDumper]

Wait and see who else is signed and whether they pan out. Then we can judge.

[ChumpDumper]

Why make Devin Brown the fall guy for the entire lux tax distribution the Spurs would have lost by retaining Brown when you have Radoslav slated to make $6.7 mil in 2005-06?Because signing Rasho didn't put them over the tax at the time.

If they had a choice they probably would've let someone else go.

[Marcus Bryant]

Sure, from a marginal perspective you pin it on Brown. But since it's a tax on your entire payroll I think it worthwhile to look at who else has put you in that position.

[Spurminator]

I think they are looking at that, but what are they going to do about it? They have a choice on Devin's salary, they don't on Rasho's.

[Marcus Bryant]

Sure, that's what ownership did. But it's rather difficult to ignore the impact of Nesterovic's contract in this discussion.

[picnroll]

This team will never amount to anything with HoltCat letting talent like Derek Anderson go because he's too cheap to sign him for what he's worth.
Internet posting circa 2001 recovered from cyberspace. :angel

[ChumpDumper]

Sure, that's what ownership did. But it's rather difficult to ignore the impact of Nesterovic's contract in this discussion.I think a time machine would cost more than any savings gained by erasing his contract from history.

[SenorSpur]

Spin it however you want, but the Spurs passed on Devin because they didn't wan't to spend $2.5 million and reduce the check they get from the lux tax system.

Devin's deal was 1 year, $2.5 million with a team option for a second year, not a multi-year high dollar contract, as some here are implying.

Next summer, your swing rotation could be Manu, and a pair of players in their mid thirties.
__________________________________________________ __

They should have viewed this years deal as a $2.5 million insurance policy for next summer, because it is unlikely that they're going to find anybody else that brings what Devin does on both ends of the court in that price range.

The Spurs should have kept him.

All excellent points. I couldn't agree more.

All summer long, I've bitched about the disadvatanges of acquiring Finley and the wisdom of bringing him (and his diminishing talents) aboard at the risk of losing a young swingman like Devin. The fact that Devin would have cost the same price as Finley (for this year anyway) makes the decision to let him go even more curious.

If the Spurs ownership and management were insistent on "not exceeding the luxury tax" they should have thought past this season. They could have locked Devin up for at least two seasons at $5 mil.

Meanwhile, there are no guarantees that Finley will be a Spur after this season and if he is - at what price? So what happens next summer? The price to keep Finley is sure to go up, while his skills and stats will likely continue to decline.

IMO Brown's contributions to this team (this year and next) would have given them the same chances of winning a title as would Finley.

Best scenario:
Spurs better hope they win the title and that Finley is a significant contributor throughout the season and the Finals.

Even if that happens, it appears the Spurs have mortgaged part of their future at the swing position only to chase a player who is still capable of making a significant contributions on any given night, but whose best days are clearly behind him.

Sometime during the course of this year and certainly next year, the Spurs will wish they would have passed on Finley and retained Devin.

[Kip Fanatic]

Dang MB! Get off of Devin's nuts already! The Spurs did what they wanted to do because they felt it was best for the team. They have pretty good success at it to. They have won three championships in the past seven years. That looks like a very good track record if you ask me. You keep talking "what if." That's not valid. How can you worry about the future? Worry about today and today only. You, myself, the Spurs can't control the future. None of us know what is going to happen this next season and the season after that. So why waste all of our time by saying the Spurs missed up because they didn't want to spend $2.5 on Devin? Only time will tell. There is a reason why R.C and Pop are in charge of the Spurs. They know how to do it. There's a reason why you're not. You obviously don't know how to do it because of you did, you'd be a GM somewhere other than in your mind.

[ChumpDumper]

Best scenario:
Spurs better hope they win the title and that Finley is a significant contributor throughout the season and the Finals.

Even if that happens, it appears the Spurs have mortgaged part of their future at the swing position only to chase a player who is still capable of making a significant contributions on any given night, but whose best days are clearly behind him.

Sometime during the course of this year and certainly next year, the Spurs will wish they would have passed on Finley and retained Devin.Actually the best case scenario is Finley helps the Spurs win now and whatever IR fodder we sign thrives in the practice squad incubator and come out ready to play next season. It's not like it hasn't happened before.

[Marcus Bryant]

Dang MB! Get off of Devin's nuts already!

I'm not on Brown's "nuts" as you state. I am being critical of ownership, "young blood".



The Spurs did what they wanted to do because they felt it was best for the team.


Losing Brown was good for the team? Come on. Get real, "man".

You know who it was good for? "The Man".




They have pretty good success at it to. They have won three championships in the past seven years. That looks like a very good track record if you ask me.


So no mistakes are possible? Get real. Why can't they be criticized for a horrid basketball move? 'But, but...they won championships' is not a sufficient answer.



You keep talking "what if." That's not valid. How can you worry about the future? Worry about today and today only. You, myself, the Spurs can't control the future. None of us know what is going to happen this next season and the season after that.


Nope. You have to consider how things will be next year with personnel decisions. With only 3 guys under contract next summer at the 2 and 3 and with 2 of them aged 35 then, you definitely have to consider those 'what ifs'.



So why waste all of our time by saying the Spurs missed up because they didn't want to spend $2.5 on Devin? Only time will tell. There is a reason why R.C and Pop are in charge of the Spurs. They know how to do it.


That's assuming that Pop and RC wanted Brown gone and there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Ownership wanted him gone.

Separate the two.



There's a reason why you're not. You obviously don't know how to do it because of you did, you'd be a GM somewhere other than in your mind.

Going by that standard, you must be a "GM somewhere other than in your mind" because you offered a critique of what the Spurs are doing. This is a discussion forum. Sorry that I am offering something other than platitudes such as "Holt Cat's nut sure tastes good. Mmmm. Mmmm."

[50 cent]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant




This team will never amount to anything with HoltCat letting talent like Derek Anderson go because he's too cheap to sign him for what he's worth.
Internet posting circa 2001 recovered from cyberspace. :angel
:lmao :lmao :lmao

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

What happens when Finley's knee acts up? What happens when NVE's does too? If we are going to start bringing up old injuries then those are a couple of worrisome ones right there. Why not have some more depth? You guys like to point out Brown's injury problems but ignore some other rather significant ones in the rotation.

What if it does? We have the same core that won us a championship, and Devin wasn't a part of it in the playoffs anyway.

You act like Devin was some sort of uber-6th Man. His skill set can be found a dime a dozen at the end of benches in this league and in the NBDL. The Spurs are still courting guys like Melvin Sanders, who will come cheaper and not have the back issue clouding their future.

But damn "Holt Cat" for not going lux tax for some glorified IR (err, inactive) fodder.

[ducks]

would devin brown ever have beaten out bowen or manu to start
I Doubt it
I think that is why the spurs let him go because he was not worth the money not to be a threat to start

[Kip Fanatic]

Young Blood? OK. You have no idea what my age yet you call me young blood. That say's a lot about you. You are already forecasting what will happen when the Spurs haven't even entered camp. Don't say you aren't because you are. You aren't coming out and saying it, but trust me you are. You're saying that winning three championships is not proven? C'mon. Wait, not sufficient. Then what is? I can understand you critizicing the Spurs front office and ownership if they hadn't won anything and were something like the Hawks, but they aren't. When was the last time the Jazz won a NBA championship? What about the Nuggets? Please. You're criticizing a team that proved they were the best last year. You say that the choice not to re-sign Brown was good only for, "the Man." What happened last year when they traded Malik? The Spurs were criticized for it, but what happened this past June? Malik was at home and the Spurs were floating down the river celebrating their third. However, lets say that the ownership did what was best for "the Man" as you say. So what? What's wrong for looking after himself? Don't you do what's best for you? If you're indicating I'm on Holt's nuts, you're way off. I'm just not going to criticize a front office like the Spurs because they have PROVEN they can get the job done. Get a clue. You're worrying over something that hasn't even happened. Plain and simple.

[Marcus Bryant]

DA's price was a bit more than 1 year for $2.5 mil and I had no problem seeing him go and stated so at the time.

So the time machine is faulty, much like every attempt in this forum to make Devin Brown go out to be a good basketball decision. None of you have been able to do that yet. All you've done is jock Holt Cat's income statement. What fan gives two flips about that?

[Marcus Bryant]

would devin brown ever have beaten out bowen or manu to start
I Doubt it
I think that is why the spurs let him go because he was not worth the money not to be a threat to start


He beat out Brent Barry to be the top reserve swing last season.

[ducks]

yes but we know the spurs are going to try to trade barry
they are going try to find a player better then barry and brown making close to what barry is making


noone knows for sure it will work

spurs did pull out a miracle in the past and got hedo for nothing

[Marcus Bryant]

Where were the miracles in 2001 and 2002 when the Spurs had an old ass perimeter getting smoked in the postseason?

[wildbill2u]

My God, let's go back to banging heads on the Malik for NAsr trade in every thread.

Whooops, better not, since that trade worked out pretty well and made the FO look like they might know what they're doing.

[SenorSpur]

My God, let's go back to banging heads on the Malik for NAsr trade in every thread.

Whooops, better not, since that trade worked out pretty well and made the FO look like they might know what they're doing.

True, I just wish there was a finacially prudent way we could keep Nazr for the long haul.

[Kip Fanatic]

Its official. Marcus Bryant has no clue. He keeps going to "what if" and then he goes to the past back in 2001 and 2002. I guess the Spurs Winning IT ALL this past season wasn't enough for Marcus. Let's all call the Spurs management and let them know Mr. Bryant is pissed and thinks not signing Devin Brown is the biggest mistake they've made so that Marcus Bryant can be happy.
In all seriousness I can see what you are saying Marcus. Last season Devin showed he could be very good off the bench and maybe more, but he got hurt. Its unfortunate, but it happens. Look at what happened to players like Grant Hill, Allen Houston, and etc. These guys had good careers ahead of them, but they were injured and well we all know what happened. I am not saying that the same is going to happen for D. Brown. I hope not. I like the guy and thought he was good and still think he is. I think the Spurs keeping him would have been a great idea and good for the team. I'm sure a lot of people think that way, but it didn't happen for whatever reason. Whether it was financial or whether it was personal. No one really knows except for the Spurs front office. What I do know is that the Spurs have made mistakes in the past and will make some more, but by you saying that not resigning Devin Brown is a mistake isn't fair. The Spurs have yet to play a game. They haven't even practiced together. Let the season play itself out and then we'll all see whether or not it was a mistake.

[50 cent]

This is just too humorous. Marcus has his panties in a wad over a player that wasn't even an integral piece of the Championship team that is still intact. Devin position is the easiest position in the league to fill on the cheap. Clearly, the Spurs just screwed themselves out of any chance of being successful in the future. :rolleyes

[ChumpDumper]

Marcus has cancelled his luxury suite reservation for the season.

[Marcus Bryant]

This is just too humorous. Marcus has his panties in a wad over a player that wasn't even an integral piece of the Championship team that is still intact. Devin position is the easiest position in the league to fill on the cheap. Clearly, the Spurs just screwed themselves out of any chance of being successful in the future. :rolleyes


What is the past is not necessarily the future. Also, perhaps a Devin Brown who doesn't wilt like a wet flower in the postseason would have been more useful than Brent Barry.

[Marcus Bryant]

Its official. Marcus Bryant has no clue. He keeps going to "what if" and then he goes to the past back in 2001 and 2002. I guess the Spurs Winning IT ALL this past season wasn't enough for Marcus. Let's all call the Spurs management and let them know Mr. Bryant is pissed and thinks not signing Devin Brown is the biggest mistake they've made so that Marcus Bryant can be happy.
In all seriousness I can see what you are saying Marcus. Last season Devin showed he could be very good off the bench and maybe more, but he got hurt. Its unfortunate, but it happens. Look at what happened to players like Grant Hill, Allen Houston, and etc. These guys had good careers ahead of them, but they were injured and well we all know what happened. I am not saying that the same is going to happen for D. Brown. I hope not. I like the guy and thought he was good and still think he is. I think the Spurs keeping him would have been a great idea and good for the team. I'm sure a lot of people think that way, but it didn't happen for whatever reason. Whether it was financial or whether it was personal. No one really knows except for the Spurs front office. What I do know is that the Spurs have made mistakes in the past and will make some more, but by you saying that not resigning Devin Brown is a mistake isn't fair. The Spurs have yet to play a game. They haven't even practiced together. Let the season play itself out and then we'll all see whether or not it was a mistake.


When one starts stating that another has "no clue", they most likely have none. You've yet to refute any of my arguments and at the moment, you are just background noise to this discussion.

[Kip Fanatic]

When one starts stating that another has "no clue", they most likely have none. You've yet to refute any of my arguments and at the moment, you are just background noise to this discussion.

Its cool Marcus. I'm not the one being hated on for the stupid postings. That would be you. I'm not trying to argue with you because that would be dumb of me to waste my time on someone like you. I'm just simply stating the truth, which is YOU HAVE NO IDEA THAT THE SPURS MADE A MISTAKE BY NOT SIGNING DEVIN BROWN FOR $2.5 BECAUSE THE SEASON HASN'T STARTED.
:idiot

[50 cent]

What is the past is not necessarily the future. Also, perhaps a Devin Brown who doesn't wilt like a wet flower in the postseason would have been more useful than Brent Barry.
Throughout the entire history of the league, finding a roll playing swingman has been the easiest position on a team to fill while big men and PGs were the most difficult. I don't see that changing anytime soon as genetics dictate there will simply be more humans that are "swingman" size than there will be 7 foot tall people that become basketball players.

Brent didn't exactly melt like a wet flower during the Finals. In fact, he hit several big shots while Devin was sitting on the bench nursing his back like an old lady in a chiropractor's office.

[GoSpurs21]

I would still have Devin than Fin any day of the week and twice on Sundays
and nobody's gonna convince me otherwise

as for having them both, that's just greedy and wouldn't be good for either player and any one who believes it would be good for both players is fooling themself

[Uncle Remus]

The point is this:Devin would have been defensive "insurance"for Bruce.

Who on the current roster can step up on defense if Bowen goes down?

Manu? He would get into foul trouble. Bones? Give me a break. Devin took

his minutes because Barry couldn't defend. Finley? There were games last

season when it looked as if he could barely walk,let alone defend. Forget the

distant future; the Spurs need a young SF for this upcoming season.

[Kip Fanatic]

The guys who keep posting that the Spurs should have kept Devin are the same guys who cry at night for Malik, Antonio Daniels, and Ron Mercer to come back to the Spurs.

[SenorSpur]

The guys who keep posting that the Spurs should have kept Devin are the same guys who cry at night for Malik, Antonio Daniels, and Ron Mercer to come back to the Spurs.

C'mon dude, that aint right. Funny, but not right.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

DA's price was a bit more than 1 year for $2.5 mil and I had no problem seeing him go and stated so at the time.

Let's see. The Spurs didn't think he was worth it, and didn't screw their future by overpaying. What has Derek Anderson done since leaving besides whine about getting paid even more and get hurt?

I can't believe you're crying about DA - the dude has been a scrub and a disappointment since leaving SA, and you're sitting here taking juvenile shots at Holt because the Spurs couldn't have their own member of the all-bust team getting overpaid.

Boo f'in hoo.

[Kip Fanatic]

C'mon dude, that aint right. Funny, but not right.

It may not be right, but it sure seems like it. Its pretty dumb to ASSUME that the Spurs made a huge mistake in not re-signing Devin Brown when the season hasn't even started don't you think? Its premature. Did anyone predict last year that Seattle would give the Spurs a good fight in the second round last year in the playoffs? No. You can't assume things in life period! That's all I'm trying to say. To keep saying that letting D. Brown go was wrong isn't right. Even if you're talking about as a basketball decision or as a financial reason. No one knows what is going to happen.

[Marcus Bryant]

Let's see. The Spurs didn't think he was worth it, and didn't screw their future by overpaying. What has Derek Anderson done since leaving besides whine about getting paid even more and get hurt?


Retaining DA would have been a 4 or 5 year commitment for $40+ million. Not 1 at $2.5 mil.

The reason I had no problem with that decision was related to the cap, not the fiscal impact.




I can't believe you're crying about DA - the dude has been a scrub and a disappointment since leaving SA, and you're sitting here taking juvenile shots at Holt because the Spurs couldn't have their own member of the all-bust team getting overpaid.

Boo f'in hoo.

That's because I wasn't "crying". I said I had no problem with that decision. Also, that was a $40 million contract, not $2.5 mil. Retaining him would have limited the Spurs' options when David Robinson retired. DA was not a good candidate to be the Spurs' 2nd star.

RIF.

[Marcus Bryant]

The guys who keep posting that the Spurs should have kept Devin are the same guys who cry at night for Malik, Antonio Daniels, and Ron Mercer to come back to the Spurs.

The Spurs paid Ron Mercer something like $7 million to do nothing one season. They paid Steve Smith, who's game had long before left him, $9 million.

[Kip Fanatic]

The Spurs paid Ron Mercer something like $7 million to do nothing one season. They paid Steve Smith, who's game had long before left him, $9 million.

Yet the Spurs keep proving to everyone that they are one of the best year in and year. Yet the Spurs keep winning. WHAT THE HELL IS YOUR POINT?

[SenorSpur]

It may not be right, but it sure seems like it. Its pretty dumb to ASSUME that the Spurs made a huge mistake in not re-signing Devin Brown when the season hasn't even started don't you think? Its premature. Did anyone predict last year that Seattle would give the Spurs a good fight in the second round last year in the playoffs? No. You can't assume things in life period! That's all I'm trying to say. To keep saying that letting D. Brown go was wrong isn't right. Even if you're talking about as a basketball decision or as a financial reason. No one knows what is going to happen.


Maybe premature to you. However, the point of this forum is to offer opinions and I am of the opinion that this decision to let Devin walk (without compensation, mind you) may come back to "bite the Spurs in the ass".

Don't get me wrong. I'm not of the mindset they should have signed Devin to simply let him rot on the bench. I'm saying that if Devin was healthy, perhaps the Finley move wasn't warranted.

Let's not forget that Devin, before his injury, had forced his way into the rotation at the expense of Barry - who was the Spurs top FA signing over last summer.

In my mind, a healthy Devin would have given them as much or more than Finley. It's not like Devin was a piece of Kandi-man type trash. The guy can play and should only get better.

I have no doubts about the potential success of this season. It's next year that I'm concerned about and the age of the guys the Spurs currently have at the swing position.

[picnroll]

If Devin is such an irreplaceable talent why didn't Miami, Phoenix, Detroit, and the T Wolves chase him instead of Devin? Does Marcus know something that Riley, Colangelo, Dumars and McHale don't?

[Marcus Bryant]

Yet the Spurs keep proving to everyone that they are one of the best year in and year. Yet the Spurs keep winning. WHAT THE HELL IS YOUR POINT?


So there's no room for improvement, they never make a mistake and this will never change.

I'm sorry, I will pledge my allegiance to Emperor Holt and never once question him again.

[Marcus Bryant]

If Devin is such an irreplaceable talent why didn't Miami, Phoenix, Detroit, and the T Wolves chase him instead of Devin? Does Marcus know something that Riley, Colangelo, Dumars and McHale don't?

No.

They knew he was a restricted free agent and that the Spurs had his Early Bird rights. Utah needed a 2, had some cap room laying around and Devin had some fam in SLC.

[Kip Fanatic]

Maybe premature to you. However, the point of this forum is to offer opinions and I am of the opinion that this decision to let Devin walk (without compensation, mind you) may come back to "bite the Spurs in the ass".

Don't get me wrong. I'm not of the mindset they should have signed Devin to simply let him rot on the bench. I'm saying that if Devin was healthy, perhaps the Finley move wasn't warranted.

Let's not forget that Devin, before his injury, had forced his way into the rotation at the expense of Barry - who was the Spurs top FA signing over last summer.

In my mind, a healthy Devin would have given them as much or more than Finley. It's not like Devin was a piece of Kandi-man type trash. The guy can play and should only get better.

I have no doubts about the potential success of this season. It's next year that I'm concerned about and the age of the guys the Spurs currently have at the swing position.

You have a good opinion no doubt. I'm not saying people shouldn't post their opinions, but to keep basing them over and over on (not saying you are) "what ifs" is annoying. You can't...let me rephrase that...you SHOULDN"T assume the moves the Spurs made this off-season were mistakes. Let the season start and the playoffs come around. That's when we'll all see if the moves they made this off-season were good ones. You guys may be right you may not be. That's all I'm trying to say.

[Kip Fanatic]

So there's no room for improvement, they never make a mistake and this will never change.

I'm sorry, I will pledge my allegiance to Emperor Holt and never once question him again.

There is always room for improvement and if you were to read the postings I laid out here earlier I never said the Spurs don't make mistakes. I know they have, do, and will, but they are a good franchise. They've proved to all of us NBA fans that they have a pretty good idea about what they are doing. Again Marcus, I'm not saying Holt is the smartest man or the king of whatever. I'm just saying the Spurs in general have done well overall and seem to be on the right track to keep doing so.

[SenorSpur]

You have a good opinion no doubt. I'm not saying people shouldn't post their opinions, but to keep basing them over and over on (not saying you are) "what ifs" is annoying. You can't...let me rephrase that...you SHOULDN"T assume the moves the Spurs made this off-season were mistakes. Let the season start and the playoffs come around. That's when we'll all see if the moves they made this off-season were good ones. You guys may be right you may not be. That's all I'm trying to say.

No doubt. These moves will certainly make for some very interesting "off season" evaluation fodder - especially AS THE 2006 NBA champions. :elephant

[Uncle Remus]

You have a good opinion no doubt. I'm not saying people shouldn't post their opinions, but to keep basing them over and over on (not saying you are) "what ifs" is annoying. You can't...let me rephrase that...you SHOULDN"T assume the moves the Spurs made this off-season were mistakes. Let the season start and the playoffs come around. That's when we'll all see if the moves they made this off-season were good ones. You guys may be right you may not be. That's all I'm trying to say.

Wow, I thought this was a DISCUSSION board, not an echo-chamber for the Spurs' F.O.

[picnroll]

No.

They knew he was a restricted free agent and that the Spurs had his Early Bird rights. Utah needed a 2, had some cap room laying around and Devin had some fam in SLC.
Marcus Evans was restricted but got an offer from Detroit. Damien Wilkins was restricted but got an offer from Minnesota.

[Marcus Bryant]

Perhaps that was because Brown was regarded as being a lock to be matched by the Spurs.

[Marcus Bryant]

Wow, I thought this was a DISCUSSION board, not an echo-chamber for the Spurs' F.O.

No kidding.

[picnroll]

No kidding.
Teams could have used Spurs interest in Finley to lock up Brown. THey could have made an offer early and while Spurs were sitting on Finley seven days may have expired. Better explanation is Wilkins and Evans were more desired.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

So just because someone agrees with the front office their views are an "echo-chamber."

I thought this was a DISCUSSION board, not a bash the front office 24/7/365 board.

[Kip Fanatic]

Wow, I thought this was a DISCUSSION board, not an echo-chamber for the Spurs' F.O.


No kidding.

Unlce Remus and Marcus Bryant were probably fired by the Spurs front office and now use every opportunity to bash them. Go ask Mark "I'll spend whatever it takes to suck" Cuban for an application.

[50 cent]

Perhaps that was because Brown was regarded as being a lock to be matched by the Spurs.
BS. Perhaps that's because he has an inoperatable back condition that has ruined the careers of many players that had a lot of potential. Everybody else in the league knows the Spurs' tendency to be fiscal responsible. If Devin had so much potential without a cloudy injury, a team would have given him an offer that they felt had a good chance of not being matched by the fiscally responsible Spurs. That did not happen.

[Marcus Bryant]

If it was that bad, why did the Jazz make him the offer then?

Again, he was restricted and it was expected that the Spurs would match an offer for him. Not hard to understand.

[Marcus Bryant]

Unlce Remus and Marcus Bryant were probably fired by the Spurs front office and now use every opportunity to bash them. Go ask Mark "I'll spend whatever it takes to suck" Cuban for an application.


Yeah, got me there.

Maybe you are paid by ownership to shill their arguments in here.

[Kip Fanatic]

Yeah, got me there.

Not really. However, it would be an easy job and I'd do it if they paid me the right money. What problem do you have with the Spurs front office? They just won a championship. Are you not satisfied?

Maybe you are paid by ownership to shill their arguments in here.

[Uncle Remus]

Unlce Remus and Marcus Bryant were probably fired by the Spurs front office and now use every opportunity to bash them. Go ask Mark "I'll spend whatever it takes to suck" Cuban for an application.
Wow, good one. :rolleyes I think the Spurs' front office is one the best, actually. You either have a juvenile sense of irony or a serious learning disability. From the quality of your arguments and grammar, I assume it's the latter.

[spurster]

Devin Brown = Championships

Fortunately, the Spurs retained Sean Marks, or they would have really been in trouble.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yeah, it's not hard to make ownership's argument: milking the arena deal and the lux tax program with Tim Duncan's presence guaranteeing that we will have at least 2nd round playoff appearances is all we need.

[Kip Fanatic]

Wow, good one. :rolleyes I think the Spurs' front office is one the best, actually. You either have a juvenile sense of irony or a serious learning disability. From the quality of your arguments and grammar, I assume it's the latter.

A learning disability? Dude, are you serious? C'mon. You couldn't think of anything better? You have to use my grammar as a way to try and cut on me? Very nice. :jack

[Uncle Remus]

A learning disability? Dude, are you serious? C'mon. You couldn't think of anything better? You have to use my grammar as a way to try and cut on me? Very nice. :jack
Yeah, that was in bad taste. :depressed

[FromWayDowntown]

I understand the outrage, but I think it disregards certain facts that make the decision understandable.

In the immediate term, Finley over Devin makes perfect sense. The Spurs proved last season, even without Devin, that they had plenty of defense. They lacked offense, and particularly, lacked consistent offensive punch off the bench. That problem was so pronounced that Pop had almost no choice but to make Manu the 6th man if his team was to have any chance to knock out the Nuggets. Why continue with the periodic benching of Manu when you can add a guy right now who will offer you that consistent scoring from the bench?

Another reason to not match and luxuirate with a plethora of wings is money. It's not just about ownership having to pay out the luxury tax; it's about ownership not being able to participate in the distribution of luxury tax proceeds. Without making this overly complex, the Spurs decision to stay below the tax threshold not only ensures that the franchise won't have to pay dollar-for-dollar for that excess (whomever you wish to allocate as the excess salary), but also ensures that the Spurs will take a full share of the distribution of the tax money, plus some portion of the league's escrow money, plus a share of whatever surplus exists. It's not an insigificant amount of money. Paying Devin Brown to linger as an insurance policy might have cost the Spurs in the neighborhood of $10 million in 2005-06. We can be as frivolous as we want in a forum with Holt Cat money, but I'm not sure I'd fell real comfortable discounting the importance of $10 million extra dollars to a small-market franchise.

I understand, though, that this isn't so much about next season as it is about 2006-07. That's fair. But I also think there is some hyperbole in the lament about the Spurs wings going forward. It's not as if the Spurs have struggled to identify talented wings/perimeter players and develop them through the Popovich years. I mean, they did find Antonio Daniels for the price of Felipe Lopez and Carl Herrera. They convinced Derek Anderson to give it a shot and got the best year of his career out of him. They identified guys like Charles Smith and Ira Newble, who could at least contribute in the NBA. They found and developed Steven Jackson well enough to win a title with him. They traded John Salmons and Mark Bryant for Speedy Claxton, then turned around and gave an NBA career to Jason Hart after he had been discarded elsewhere. And, oh yeah, they stole Tony Parker and Beno Udrih late in 1st rounds, and Manu Ginobili in the 2nd Round of the NBA draft. And, of course, there's Devin Brown. For the last 6-8 years, it's not as if this franchise has had a hard time finding perimeter players who can come in, develop, and successfully play roles in the system.

The sky isn't falling.

[Kip Fanatic]

Yeah, that was in bad taste. :depressed

:blah

[remingtonbo2001]

Marcus, please listen. The Spurs released Brown in part

3. Back Injury

2. Luxary Tax

1. (The most important) Because they know they will have the opportunity to sign Brown in 2 years, if his potential devolpes into the success many originally invisioned.

The Spurs organization made an incredible manuver, which conicidentally, has gone un-noticed by the entire league. It was not the signing of NVE, or Finley, but the release of Devin Brown. What!?. Why? If the Spurs retain Brown, his growth would have become stagnant, due to his position in the rotation. So what does the Spurs front-office do? They allow Devin to walk, but knowing full well were he would end up, Utah. If he were unable to play under Popavich, what better coach then Jerry Sloan to teach Devin the necessary skills and responsibilties to mature into a successful player. Utah will be able to provide Devin with the attention he so rightly deserves, which in turn will allow his abilities to nurture over time.

Why would Devin return? Considering the money that will be offered, assuming that Devin's abilities continues to blossom, the question posed seems rather logical. Did anyone notice the deamnor of both Devin and the Spurs Organization? Both understood the other's position and parted with ways, not with bitterness, but with undauting respect for another. Devin is gone for now, but in 2 years?

[Kip Fanatic]

Trust me. Marcus doesn't listen. He will find a way to argue and try to make it seem like he knows what he's talking about.

[50 cent]

If it was that bad, why did the Jazz make him the offer then?

Again, he was restricted and it was expected that the Spurs would match an offer for him. Not hard to understand.
If he's that good, why didn't more teams offer him. How come other restricted FAs were made offers that their current teams that are more free spending than the Spurs did not match? It didn't scare away Detroit or Minny.

You are incredibly naive if you think a team in need of a SG would be afraid that the Spurs would absolutely match anybody not by the name of Ginobili regardless of an offer, especially the Spurs 3rd string SG.

The reality is, Devin was not a highly sought after RFA and it wasn't because other teams were scared the Spurs would match.

[Marcus Bryant]

Marcus, please listen. The Spurs released Brown in part

3. Back Injury

2. Luxary Tax

1. (The most important) Because they know they will have the opportunity to sign Brown in 2 years, if his potential devolpes into the success many originally invisioned.

The Spurs organization made an incredible manuver, which conicidentally, has gone un-noticed by the entire league. It was not the signing of NVE, or Finley, but the release of Devin Brown. What!?. Why? If the Spurs retain Brown, his growth would have become stagnant, due to his position in the rotation. So what does the Spurs front-office do? They allow Devin to walk, but knowing full well were he would end up, Utah. If he were unable to play under Popavich, what better coach then Jerry Sloan to teach Devin the necessary skills and responsibilties to mature into a successful player. Utah will be able to provide Devin with the attention he so rightly deserves, which in turn will allow his abilities to nurture over time.

Why would Devin return? Considering the money that will be offered, assuming that Devin's abilities continues to blossom, the question posed seems rather logical. Did anyone notice the deamnor of both Devin and the Spurs Organization? Both understood the other's position and parted with ways, not with bitterness, but with undauting respect for another. Devin is gone for now, but in 2 years?

In 2 seasons the Jazz will have his Early-Bird rights. In 2 years, at best the Spurs will have the full MLE to offer him (which, yes, is the same amount as available under the Early-Bird rights). But it's not hard to see how the Spurs might be caught using that money to cover other parts of the team. At a minimum, the Spurs won't be able to outbid the Jazz for him.

Plus, you are assuming that Devin is cool with being cast aside like that.

[FromWayDowntown]

Marcus, please listen. The Spurs released Brown in part

* * * *

1. (The most important) Because they know they will have the opportunity to sign Brown in 2 years, if his potential devolpes into the success many originally invisioned.



I disagree that the Spurs had such an idea in mind in making this decision.

It's not as if the Spurs will just be able to say, "You know, we'd really like to bring that Devin fellow back to our team." Two years from now, unless they make some major moves, the Spurs will be substantially over the salary cap, particularly if they choose to lock up Nazr. If they're over the cap, they're going to have to do some major manuevering to acquire Devin, who will likely be offered only a backup role.

1. Offer Devin the MLE or some part of it, assuming the Spurs have an MLE to use, that they have no more pressing needs to fill, and that there aren't better players already on the market.

2. Work a sign-and-trade for Devin.

3. Trade a big contract (Manu, Parker, Barry, Nesterovic) for a big expiring contract to gain some cap space before that summer.

4. Hope that Devin will take substantially less than market value for the chance to come back to SA.

There is no certainty to any of those scenarios, so I can't see that this decision is part of any bigger plan by the Spurs to get over on the league.

[50 cent]

In 2 seasons the Jazz will have his Early-Bird rights. In 2 years, at best the Spurs will have the full MLE to offer him (which, yes, is the same amount as available under the Early-Bird rights). But it's not hard to see how the Spurs might be caught using that money to cover other parts of the team. At a minimum, the Spurs won't be able to outbid the Jazz for him.

Plus, you are assuming that Devin is cool with being cast aside like that.
And you are assuming that Devin will command more than the MLE in 2 years which is highly unlikely.

[Marcus Bryant]

If he's that good, why didn't more teams offer him. How come other restricted FAs were made offers that their current teams that are more free spending than the Spurs did not match? It didn't scare away Detroit or Minny.

The Spurs had his Early Bird rights. They could match any offer from those teams.

Detroit made Evans an offer that the Kings didn't have the cap room to match, from what I recall.



You are incredibly naive if you think a team in need of a SG would be afraid that the Spurs would absolutely match anybody not by the name of Ginobili regardless of an offer, especially the Spurs 3rd string SG.


You are incredibly naive as you don't seem able to see how losing Brown for nothing was a bad basketball move. Saying that he would have cost the Spurs money does not suffice for an argument.



The reality is, Devin was not a highly sought after RFA and it wasn't because other teams were scared the Spurs would match.

Most restricted free agents are not highly sought after, because of the difficulty luring away a restricted free agent entails.

[Kip Fanatic]

Plus, you are assuming that Devin is cool with being cast aside like that.

Marcus you would know a little bit about assuming since that's all you seem to be doing a lot of it today. Just like you did right here :
But it's not hard to see how the Spurs might be caught using that money to cover other parts of the team. At a minimum, the Spurs won't be able to outbid the Jazz for him.
Way to go! You just proved that all you do is assume. Give it up. Wait for the season to play out.

[50 cent]

You are incredibly naive as you don't seem able to see how losing Brown for nothing was a bad basketball move. Saying that he would have cost the Spurs money does not suffice for an argument.


Why? Because you can't rebut it? Deciding who and who not to spend money on are part of the game. They are basketball moves. You can't separate the 2 like you are trying to do.

[Kori Ellis]

Why are you guys having the same exact arguments in two or three threads?

It's annoying as hell.

I'm locking the other ones. I don't mind the argument. I just mind the same argument in every thread I open.

[Uncle Remus]

Look, the Spurs made a smart financial move; I just don't think it was the right basketball move. They do not have any insurance for Bruce on the current roster.

[Marcus Bryant]

I haven't had to assume. I've seen the Spurs:

Lose a young, complete role player.

Lose a valuable player for nothing.

Lose flexibility next offseason.

Lose depth at a position at which the Spurs have 4 guys to cover 5 spots this season.

I only care about seeing the team win. I don't care how ownership does and I certainly don't need any of you try to explain to me how a business operates. Given the publicly available info I've seen in regards to their EBITDA, valuation and balance sheet they are not anywhere close to being in financial trouble. Also, Holt Cat isn't the sole owner, as some of you don't seem to understand. There are a couple of Fortune 500 companies in that ownership group.

It was a shitty basketball decision and seeing you apologists try to explain it as being something else is great entertainment.

[Marcus Bryant]

Look, the Spurs made a smart financial move; I just don't think it was the right basketball move. They do not have any insurance for Bruce on the current roster.

Exactly. End of discussion.

[Marcus Bryant]

Why? Because you can't rebut it? Deciding who and who not to spend money on are part of the game. They are basketball moves. You can't separate the 2 like you are trying to do.

Sure you can. Especially given the amount involved.

Next summer, when they presumably will have money to spend, they won't have the cap flexibility to make it happen. So you just handcuff yourself because you are afraid to spend a little bit more this summer. That move this summer will hurt them next summer and perhaps the one after that. Instead of having a solid, complete role player who you know is good enough to be your primary backup swingman, you will have nothing and will be constrained by the cap. That's a bad move all around.

[Kip Fanatic]

Sure you can. Especially given the amount involved.

Next summer, when they presumably will have money to spend, they won't have the cap flexibility to make it happen. So you just handcuff yourself because you are afraid to spend a little bit more this summer. That move this summer will hurt them next summer and perhaps the one after that. Instead of having a solid, complete role player who you know is good enough to be your primary backup swingman, you will have nothing and will be constrained by the cap. That's a bad move all around.

Again. You assume all of the above. Give it up. PLEASE!!!! You have no idea what will happen and neither do I. Let the season start and play out. You don't know if the Spurs are done making moves. You have no idea if the Spurs might move this player or that player before mid-season. None of us KNOW so quit assuming Marcus. Its really old.

[50 cent]

I haven't had to assume. I've seen the Spurs:

Lose a young, complete role player.

Lose a valuable player for nothing.

Lose flexibility next offseason.

Lose depth at a position at which the Spurs have 4 guys to cover 5 spots this season.

I only care about seeing the team win. I don't care how ownership does and I certainly don't need any of you try to explain to me how a business operates. Given the publicly available info I've seen in regards to their EBITDA, valuation and balance sheet they are not anywhere close to being in financial trouble. Also, Holt Cat isn't the sole owner, as some of you don't seem to understand. There are a couple of Fortune 500 companies in that ownership group.

It was a shitty basketball decision and seeing you apologists try to explain it as being something else is great entertainment.
I hope for Devin's sake it doesn't happen because I really like him and want to see him succeed, but if he never completely recovers from his back injury, you are going to look stupid.

The only thing we can agree on is that time will tell. If Devin never develops into something more than a 3rd string SG and can be easily replaced for the vet min. or LLE then I am right. If he turns into an All-Star and leader of the Utah Jazz that takes them deep into the Playoffs and commands more than the MLE after his contract is up, then you are right and the Spurs made a terrible decision. The next several years will only prove who is right, but I'm betting that Devin never commands more than the MLE and the Spurs might be better off letting him develop and get playing time under Sloan so they can bring him home in 2 years for less than the MLE to be a solid role player.

[Marcus Bryant]

Again. You assume all of the above. Give it up. PLEASE!!!! You have no idea what will happen and neither do I. Let the season start and play out. You don't know if the Spurs are done making moves. You have no idea if the Spurs might move this player or that player before mid-season. None of us KNOW so quit assuming Marcus. Its really old.

They lost a guy good enough to be their backup swing over chump change in the NBA. I am not giving up anything.

[Marcus Bryant]

I hope for Devin's sake it doesn't happen because I really like him and want to see him succeed, but if he never completely recovers from his back injury, you are going to look stupid.

The only thing we can agree on is that time will tell. If Devin never develops into something more than a 3rd string SG and can be easily replaced for the vet min. or LLE then I am right. If he turns into an All-Star and leader of the Utah Jazz that takes them deep into the Playoffs and commands more than the MLE after his contract is up, then you are right and the Spurs made a terrible decision. The next several years will only prove who is right, but I'm betting that Devin never commands more than the MLE and the Spurs might be better off letting him develop and get playing time under Sloan so they can bring him home in 2 years for less than the MLE to be a solid role player.

If Finley and NVE's knees don't hold up or both leave the team next summer then I guess you'll look pretty stupid.

[Kip Fanatic]

If Finley and NVE's knees don't hold up or both leave the team next summer then I guess you'll look pretty stupid.
You started this post with the word, "IF." That says a lot.

[Marcus Bryant]

You started this post with the word, "IF." That says a lot.

Since most of the arguments against retaining Brown center on "if" his back goes out, I think it only fair.

[50 cent]

If Finley and NVE's knees don't hold up or both leave the team next summer then I guess you'll look pretty stupid.
Fine. I'll take my chances with 2 All-Stars with knee injuries vs. 1 unproven role player with a inoperatable back injury.

We'll see who's right. :smokin

[Kip Fanatic]

Since most of the arguments against retaining Brown center on "if" his back goes out, I think it only fair.
Not my arguements fella. I haven't assumed that the Spurs were right or wrong on bringing in Finley and Van Exel. I haven't assumed that letting Devin go was wrong or right. I haven't stated anything about Devin's game or his back. All I have been saying is let the season play out and we'll all see. It seems to me you keep trying to argue just so you can add to the 1 million + postings. Maybe you're going for a record.

[Marcus Bryant]

Fine. I'll take my chances with 2 All-Stars with knee injuries vs. 1 unproven role player with a inoperatable back injury.

We'll see who's right. :smokin


Well if they're that good will they stick around for more when the Spurs can't pay them and (presumably) they already have a ring?

[Rogbok]

I had read the other thread that was locked and tried replying to it as it was locked. I have not read this entire thread yet but I want to make one point for you MB.

The contract was just for 2.5 million like you have said, but it is not just 2.5 when all is said and done and this is a concept that you either cannot seem to grasp or refuse to grasp. It would be Devin's contract that pushes them over the luxery tax limit and thus it would be in essence another approximately 2.5 million in a luxery tax payment because of said contract. It would also be another loss in the lowering of the luxary tax refund or whatever it is called at the end of the year of however much that would be. So we are talking about more than just 5 million for Devin. I know that you keep bringing up Rasho's contract as being a bigger issue to the luxery tax and I say BS. Let me try and put it to you this way, it is like the straw that broke the camel's back. It does not matter that there was straw there before the final one, it just matters about the last starw that did the damage. Thus it does not matter about Rasho's contract because it is already there and nothing can be done about it, but it does matter if the Spurs had signed Devin as his contract would be the one that "broke the camel's back".

[remingtonbo2001]

Devin is content with the situation that has developed over the summer. Yes, had the Spurs retained his rights, he would remain on a championship caliber team. But, how does that benefit his progress. Yes, Devin would be apart of a very cohesive unit, yet his GROWTH would be diminished due to his role. The situation in Utah is more beneficial to Devin's progress. He will recieve a larger role, which will enable him to develope at an adequete rate under a superb, if not hall of fame coach, in Jerry Sloan. IMO, your assumption of other's finicial greed is over exaggerated.

Senerio: Devin makes remarkable progress while in Utah. He developes into a quality player, averaging 15 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists per game. His defense continues to progress, but is still in need of improvement. During this time, Utah advances to the playoffs, but fail to avoid a first round exit both times. Devin is offered 6 million by Utah, 8 million by Los Angeles (Clippers), 5 million by the Spurs. Utah is young and making considerable progress, but unfortunately, are far from achieving contender status, similar to a Minnasota team a few years ago. The Clippers, well, their the Clippers. They always have been and always will be. The Spurs have the lowest offer of the three teams contending for Brown's services, but as well, are considered the most capable of winning another championship, hypathetically speaking. Would Devin choose 6 million in Utah, knowing that he may never compete for another championship again, but as well, will be able to pocket an extra million if he chooses to stay? He isn't going to the Clippers, but it was fun while it lasted. Will he choose a Spurs roster, which could use his services, are capable of competing at the highest level, but are only able to offer 5 million, 1 million less than Utah?

Why not pay him the 5 million now? He hasn't developed into a player of that caliber yet, but under Jerry Sloan, and with the proper attention and valuable playing time, he may very well be.

This is Devin's home. I am confident, and was told, that the two parties parted on good terms. Devin understands the situation, which is why he will be back. If Devin had stayed, he would have continued to make 2 million, because his growth would have become stagnant. He would have remained a bench player.
If Devin wishes, but the Spurs cannot afford his services, there is the possibility of a sign-trade. This decision was brilliant. I'm would be surprised if Holt had any influence on this decision, with the exception being financial. Pop and R.C. came up with this are their own. They were unable to find suitors for Brent, Rasho, or both. That being said this was the best available option.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yes, I am aware that retaining Brown would have pushed them over the lux tax limit, but he clearly would not have been the only contributing factor.

Yes, I am aware that the full economic cost of his contract would have been more than $2.5 mil.

So what? It was a bad basketball decision. Saying that the Spurs would have saved some $ is not a persuasive argument. They can save $ all the time by losing players.

Saying that they don't pay end of the bench players more than the minimum is unpersuasive, given that they have in the recent past.

What matters is the loss in cap and personnel flexibility they will have next summer and the lack of swingman depth this season.

To me, as a fan of Spurs basketball, that is not good.

[Rogbok]

Just as a side note, I would have liked to keep Devin here because I honestly believe that if his back is completely healed, he will be a really good value to anyone he plays for.

As a fan specifically of Devin's, I think this is the best thing that could have happened to him because he will almost assuradly get a lot more p[aying time than he would here.

Yes, this was probably more of a financial decission than a basketball decission, but the financial side of the house is part of the business of NBA basketball. You only lose that aspect of the business of basketball at the local courst in pickup games.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yes, this was probably more of a financial decission than a basketball decission, but the financial side of the house is part of the business of NBA basketball. You only lose that aspect of the business of basketball at the local courst in pickup games.

How about when you are trying to win championships and keep your team at an elite level? That's what I mean by a 'bad basketball decision'. To me, small moves to save a few bucks can come back to bite you over the course of the next few seasons as you are in a prime position to seriously contend for more championships.

With a guy like Brown, you have someone to go to should you lose Finley next summer or he prove ineffective this season. Neither of those possibilities are extreme. If you don't need Brown next summer, then at least you had that option.

Yeah, Brown by himself won't win you a title, but he can definitely help you win some games in the postseason. Also, some here seem to forget that he knocked Barry out of the rotation last season. He's a bit more than just another young athlete.

Win now, worry about Holt Cat's $ later.

[Rogbok]

Yes, but you also have the possibility of Devin never even getting back to what he was and thus you lose money and per chance flexability. Just for the sake of going there, let us say we did retain Devin. Then next summer we lose Finley and we retain Devin at at least 2.5. Then we try and play him and because of his back and/or due to not getting a lot of playing time behind Manu, Finley, Bruce, and Barry he has not really regained his form. Now we have no flexability and no backups either. You want to play the what if game, and there are so many possibilities to go there.

Trust me, backs are a very tricky thing having gone through and still going through back troubles myself.

[Marcus Bryant]

Sure, but the difference with Brown next summer vis a vis other players is that the Spurs will hold his Early Bird rights. I'll also say that it isn't going to be as easy as some think to find a young player as good as him.

[50 cent]

How about when you are trying to win championships and keep your team at an elite level? That's what I mean by a 'bad basketball decision'. To me, small moves to save a few bucks can come back to bite you over the course of the next few seasons as you are in a prime position to seriously contend for more championships.



I'll think they'll stay at an elite level even with letting their 3rd string SG/IR player go.

I bet you'd complain if they let the lockerroom janitor go to another team because it disrupts team chemistry and Holt Cat was being cheap for not bringing him back.

[Marcus Bryant]

They're going to remain at that level for the next 3 seasons even though Finley and NVE are under 1 year deals?

Who's left, a 35 year old Brent Barry who that 3rd stringer beat out for a rotation spot last season? You seem to have forgotten that.

[GhostofAlfrederickHughes]

Jesus, I haven't heard this much pissing and moaning about losing role players since Stephen Jackson and Speedy Claxton left.

"The sky is falling...oh, wait. You mean we won an NBA Championship, anyway????"

[Marcus Bryant]

Remember when the Spurs lost those guys and then didn't repeat the next season?

[Kip Fanatic]

How about when you are trying to win championships and keep your team at an elite level? That's what I mean by a 'bad basketball decision'. To me, small moves to save a few bucks can come back to bite you over the course of the next few seasons as you are in a prime position to seriously contend for more championships.

With a guy like Brown, you have someone to go to should you lose Finley next summer or he prove ineffective this season. Neither of those possibilities are extreme. If you don't need Brown next summer, then at least you had that option.

Yeah, Brown by himself won't win you a title, but he can definitely help you win some games in the postseason. Also, some here seem to forget that he knocked Barry out of the rotation last season. He's a bit more than just another young athlete.

Win now, worry about Holt Cat's $ later.
So signing Finley and Van Exel aren't good moves to put you in position to win another title? Devin Brown didn't do much in the post season this past year. The Spurs have the same starting five they had last year. They still have Beno, Horry, Barry, and Rasho. They even kept Marks. Its pretty much the same team as last year except for the fact that Devin, Mike Wilks, Tony Mass, Linton, and maybe Glenn are not back.

[Marcus Bryant]

I'd also say that swingman depth is somewhat important to the Spurs given that Manu has yet to be able to break 30 minutes per game over the course of a season.

Beyond that, we are talking about settling. Why settle? The Spurs have a tremendous opportunity to win more championships over the course of the next 3 seasons. Keep the depth, win and then worry about Holt Cat's $.

[Marcus Bryant]

So signing Finley and Van Exel aren't good moves to put you in position to win another title? Devin Brown didn't do much in the post season this past year. The Spurs have the same starting five they had last year. They still have Beno, Horry, Barry, and Rasho. They even kept Marks. Its pretty much the same team as last year except for the fact that Devin, Mike Wilks, Tony Mass, Linton, and maybe Glenn are not back.

You miss the point. Both are under 1 year contracts. You shave a little payroll now to make a little more $ and you weaken your flexibility going forward. They could have had NVE, Finley and Brown.

Win now and...worry later.

[50 cent]

They're going to remain at that level for the next 3 seasons even though Finley and NVE are under 1 year deals?

Who's left, a 35 year old Brent Barry who that 3rd stringer beat out for a rotation spot last season? You seem to have forgotten that.
Finley and NVE might decide they like winning championships in SA and want to stay for a lesser salary just like Bowen, Tim, and DRob have done. If not, then there seem to be plenty of players that want a chance to experience the Spurs system and try to win a championship and are willing to do so on the cheap. Replacing a backup SG for less than the MLE is not going to be a problem and you seem to be forgetting we have Ginobili. Barry is sufficient being his backup. After all, we won the Championship this year without NVE, Finley or Devin.

Finding a suitable backup and eventual replacement for Bowen is the Spurs bigger issue. Devin is not tall enough to guard the best SGs or SFs on other teams like Bruce does.

[Marcus Bryant]

Devin could have replaced Barry, as last season showed.

[50 cent]

Devin could have replaced Barry, as last season showed.

Did you go into a coma the last 2/3 of the season that Devin was unable to play, including the playoffs? He very well could turn out to be more brittle than Vince Carter. The Spurs get to find out for free at Utah's expense.

[Marcus Bryant]

It wasn't the last 2/3rds. If we are going to account for health issues then you can't ignore NVE and Finley's problems.

[ducks]

You miss the point. Both are under 1 year contracts. You shave a little payroll now to make a little more $ and you weaken your flexibility going forward. They could have had NVE, Finley and Brown.

Win now and...worry later.


when the sa newspaper confirms it is a one year deal then I will believe finely's deal is one year

[ducks]

email ludden and see if he says it is a one or 3 year deal

[Marcus Bryant]

Everyone and their dog seems to think it was. I thought Buck Harvey did(?)

[50 cent]

It wasn't the last 2/3rds. If we are going to account for health issues then you can't ignore NVE and Finley's problems.
It's a good thing we didn't need any of the 3 to win a Championship then last year. As I said before, any GM in the league will invest in somebody with a knee injury over somebody with a back injury. Every GM in the league will also take 2 former All-stars over 1 unproven role player.

[Marcus Bryant]

And every GM will take all 3 instead of just the older 2 with 1 year deals.

[ducks]

Everyone and their dog seems to think it was. I thought Buck Harvey did(?)


kori has posted it was not confirmed in the sa newspaper

[exstatic]

If his back turns out to be fine, he's gonna blow up in Utah with more minutes.

He wasn't going to get them here, though. $2.5M isn't a bad deal for a primary SG backup for Utah. If he was going to be that in SA, I would be bummed, but he was swing man #5, behind Manu, Bowen, Finley and Barry.

[spurster]

How about when you are trying to win championships and keep your team at an elite level? That's what I mean by a 'bad basketball decision'. To me, small moves to save a few bucks can come back to bite you over the course of the next few seasons as you are in a prime position to seriously contend for more championships.

Like I said:

Devin Brown = Championships

[remingtonbo2001]

Blah Blah Blah. Devin Brown. Blah Blah Blah.

The Spurs have the greatest foward, the toughest shooting guard, if not the best, and one of the quickest point guards in the league. Oh yeah, we also have the best perimeter defender throughout the league. Our bench consists of two aging all-stars, an proficient 2nd year point guard, an outstanding centers who could start for a number of teams in this league, and last, but most certainly not least, the key to the 2006 Championship run, Sean Marks.

Boo Fucking Whoo. We lost Devin, so we might as well hand the trophy to the Clippers for the next 3 years. I'm tired of this. I wish Devin the best.

God said "give your worries unto me". Let's try that and see how it works out. Eventually, the Spurs are going to have to fall. How else do you expect to replace Tim Duncan? I recently heard of an up and coming 14 year old. Maybe the Spurs should begin persuing him. Tim Duncan isn't getting any younger.

[Marcus Bryant]

Championships are won and lost in no small part sometimes due to role players.

Yes, much of the Spurs' rotation is set, but the swing spots are the one part of the team that is the weakest beyond the 2005-06 season.

Hence the concern about the loss of Brown. The Spurs would've held his Bird Rights and had a fairly easy time retaining him next summer. Now they will have to hope that they can retain Finley even though they will not hold his Bird or Early Bird rights next season. Yes, they will have the MLE next season, but if they expect to bring in Scola then as they appear to, then letting Brown go to make a little more cash in the short run will limit their flexibility.

Brown beat out Barry for the primary backup swing spot last season, so perhaps he's a little better than some think.

In the end, the loss of Brown was far more significant than some here realize or care to admit. The Spurs' championship window is over the next 3 to 4 seasons. It was a nearsighted move and if the Spurs' business is about winning championships, they appear to have fucked up.

But, I know, it's always good to pare down payroll simply to make a little more profit in the interim. After all, that's easy for you guys to understand. Once you bother to think about it for more than a second and realize what it means from a basketball and cap perspective, then you find yourself being critical of the ownership that made it happen.

[coopdogg3]

OK, I took a sec, and thought about it. Now I completely agree with you MB :lol . Well I guess we wait for the season and see. I have to admit I found your prediction of Devin Brown's stats to be fairly reasonable. Like I said, I didn't see him play much, probably won't get many Utah games either here in Alabama, but I look forward to hearing how he does. *sigh* Can we just speed things up to Nov 1st please?

coopdogg3

[50 cent]

Marcus, what makes you tend to believe they will bring in Scola next year. They didn't want to use the whole MLE on his this year, so they brought in Oberto. If he is successful, they will not bring in Scola. I think the rights to Scola will be traded eventually with either Radoslav or Nazr.

[Marcus Bryant]

Oberto replaces Mohammed.

Scola replaces Radoslav and eventually Horry.

[50 cent]

Scola is not a Center. The Spurs will either keep Rasho or Nazr. It will depend on if the can unload Rasho this year or not. I don't see Scola every playing for the Spurs.

Of course, 1 thing we don't know is WTF the Spurs will do. I'm sure it will involve some scenario that none of us thought about.

[Marcus Bryant]

Horry's not a center. Rose wasn't a center. With Oberto and TD on the team you have your starting and backup centers.

Before the Rose trade the Spurs never had so many starting quality centers on the team.

[Marcus Bryant]

You appear to be retarded because I've yet to see anyone blame Pop and RC for losing Brown.

-MB

PS...Suck a dick.

[Mr Dio]

You giving tips again or just wishing?

[Marcus Bryant]

More like instructions. You are probably familiar with those.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Marcus posting about losing our 12th man for 5 million a year...

http://wald.heim.at/urwald/541469/schnappschuesse/dead-horse.jpg

[Mavs<Spurs]

Oh god, we win a title with this guy playing next to zero minutes and all of a sudden this is a great fuckin' loss?

Please.


It is always easier spending some one else's money, isn't it!

Five million dollars for Devin after his back injury?

How many minutes did he play during the playoffs?

Where was he on our guard rotation? Where would he be this coming year on our guard rotation?


Hard to understand this kind of thinking.

Well, guess this year's season is shot and I guess we better watch out for that powerhouse Utah now that they picked up Devin Brown.

:fro

[Mavs<Spurs]

Internet posting circa 2001 recovered from cyberspace. :angel

Rack'em

Wow!

Does this mean we have to give back our titles?

:fro