D'Bust: I will be RoY and Lakers "most definitely will be a playoff team"

[Splits]

For example, when asked if winning Rookie of the Year is among his goals this upcoming season, Russell responds as if the answer is obvious.

“Of course,” Russell said. “I have been grinding all summer to put myself in that position.”

As far as team goals go, Russell essentially guaranteed L.A. will make the postseason next year.

“Expectations are high,” Russell says, “but this Lakers squad will most definitely be a playoff team.”

:lmao the delusion, narcissism and faggotry of the purple-n-piss are already rubbing off on this overrated scrub. It's going to be hilarious when he busts out before his rookie contract is up.

:lol Okafor
:lol Mudiay
:lol "most definitely"

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am-lakers-dangelo-russell-adjusts-to-life-los-angeles-rookie-of-the-year-playoffs/

[Buddy Mignon]

:lmao the delusion, narcissism and faggotry of the purple-n-piss are already rubbing off on this overrated scrub. It's going to be hilarious when he busts out before his rookie contract is up.

:lol Okafor
:lol Mudiay
:lol "most definitely"

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am-lakers-dangelo-russell-adjusts-to-life-los-angeles-rookie-of-the-year-playoffs/


Luva said it first. Then Kobe. Then Magic. Now the Kid. We're making the playoffs, son. And I want that hooker.

[Raven]

clearly he is speaking on kirby's command.

[Kool Bob Love]

I just want him to bust on the lakers and be successful on another team.

[BD24]

Lets be honest Naruto, about 20 games into the season you are going to realize your Lakers are going to miss the playoffs. You will then runaway and hide the remainder of the season, magically reappear right before the playoffs start to say the Spurs are going to lose to whoever they are playing. You will obviously welch on your bet because you are a broke motherfucker. Then if the Spurs do end up winning it all you will say it was lucky and doesn't count anyway because it wasn't a repeat.

Then next offseason when the Lakers make more shitty acquisitions the whole cycle will restart.

[Thebesteva]

How can such a classy organization have fans this shitty?

[K...]

I will root so hard for the Lakers to get to the seventh seed. That's like a first round bye. Of course, the rookie will score on parker, so moral victory, but kawhi will rape Kobe twice as bad as Kobe ever done a white girl.

[Spurtacular]

Now, I'm rooting for him to fail....

[Mark Celibate]

Lakers suck so bad these days even making the playoffs sounds like an accomplishment for them. Their expectations are high, but their pick next year will be even higher, oh wait... their 16' pick is owned by Philly now, right?

[DPG21920]

How can such a classy organization have fans this shitty?

:lol What does it say about your fanbase that you'd rather post on a Spurs board constantly than mingle with your own?

[Buddy Mignon]

:lol What does it say about your fanbase that you'd rather post on a Spurs board constantly than mingle with your own?

You need mercenaries in war.

[DPG21920]

You need mercenaries in war.

Ever since Straigh out of Compton came out, you've really changed your vernacular :lol

[Thebesteva]

:lol What does it say about your fanbase that you'd rather post on a Spurs board constantly than mingle with your own?

Not gonna debate that either...Laker fans are annoying as fuck

[HemisfairArena]

Okafor

[spurraider21]

:lmao russell confusing the NBA with NCAA tourney
:lmao thinking 64 teams are gna make it

[DeRozan m8]

LMAO this kid is in for such a rude awakening.
Little bitch

[Ashy Larry]

Playoff squad is kinda funny. West is just deep as Jim’s fartbox. Be happy winning 35 games at this point.

[Othyus Lalanne]

I feels sorry for the Lakers rookies. Damned no matter what they say.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

He failed to mention he is talking about the draft playoffs aka as we all know it, the lottery. Can blame him. This kid from the era where they hand out trophies for just participating.

[hater]

:lmao they could barely make the playoffs with Kobe, Nash, Howard :lol

[Mark Celibate]

^ and rigged officiating as well.

[Ignignokt]

You need mercenaries in war.

It's not war, it's a full blown SPURSIAN occupation, Fahim.

Go wallow in your fecal paste near the mosque.

[Killakobe81]

Playoff squad is kinda funny. West is just deep as Jim’s fartbox. Be happy winning 35 games at this point.



That is what I said ...

[Ashy Larry]

That is what I said ...


Pretty much. Only good thing is I’ll make bets with those Laker fans who think they will see the playoffs because “it’s Kobe’s last year” or “they wanna see Kobe out right”

easy money

[Killakobe81]

Pretty much. Only good thing is I’ll make bets with those Laker fans who think they will see the playoffs because “it’s Kobe’s last year” or “they wanna see Kobe out right”

easy money

I dont get the need of some fans for that ...I wont lie, of course I Want him to go out on a good note ...but tbh it's low on my list of priorities for the year.

1. Is to quiet the noise around the Buss kids and their bickering
2. Determine if Scott is the right guy to develop the young guys
3. Properly evaluating Randle
4. Seeing if D'Russ is for real ...
5. Getting rid of Swaggy ...
6. Continue to develop Clarkson
7. Finding out if Nace Jr., Upshaw etc are worth a damn ...
8. Seeing what Hibbert has left

All of those things are more important than Kobe's last "ride". He has his money, 5 rings, etc. He doesnt need a great last year and our team shouldnt sacrifice anyone's development to give him "a proper sendoff". he is arguably the 2nd greatest Laker and we have valued him as such except for a small section of Laker fans (and of course haters) Kobe gets respect. And i feel no need to spend the year kissing his ass. Come the end of the year the Lakers FO and fans SHOULD offer their appreciation but this year should NOT be about him.

when he is gone we STILL have to build a squad ...

[ambchang]

I can make a reasonable guess as to how likely your list of priorities will happen.


I dont get the need of some fans for that ...I wont lie, of course I Want him to go out on a good note ...but tbh it's low on my list of priorities for the year.

1. Is to quiet the noise around the Buss kids and their bickering - Unlikely, these are rich kids born with silver spoons in their mouths. They are spoiled, have enormous egos, and not a lot of brains.


2. Determine if Scott is the right guy to develop the young guys You already know the answer, and it's no.


3. Properly evaluating Randle - No matter how you evaluate a turd, it's a turd.


4. Seeing if D'Russ is for real ... Jury's still out, but it ain't looking good.


5. Getting rid of Swaggy ... Who will take him? He is all LA though, he personifies the lifestyle the Buss kids were selling to FAs. You can't blame him, he merely acted on what he was promised.


6. Continue to develop Clarkson You are talking about a borderline starter in this league, and Laker fans are treating him as some kind of saviour. Face it, he put up numbers because the Lakers were bad, and somebody had to put up numbers.


7. Finding out if Nace Jr., Upshaw etc are worth a damn ... Unlikely, you guys can't even draft properly with high picks, how are you supposed to get diamonds in the rough? You are talking about players who nobody else wanted. They may be able to do a few things very very well, but these are role players that require a system, and the Lakers have no direction, let alone a system.


8. Seeing what Hibbert has left You should pray for miracles.


All of those things are more important than Kobe's last "ride". He has his money, 5 rings, etc. He doesnt need a great last year and our team shouldnt sacrifice anyone's development to give him "a proper sendoff". he is arguably the 2nd greatest Laker and we have valued him as such except for a small section of Laker fans (and of course haters) Kobe gets respect. And i feel no need to spend the year kissing his ass. Come the end of the year the Lakers FO and fans SHOULD offer their appreciation but this year should NOT be about him.

when he is gone we STILL have to build a squad ...

You are right, Kobe should be last on your list. How Laker fans are revering Kobe is beyond me. This is a guy who cost you multiple championships. He didn't win 5 rings, the Lakers won 5 rings despite him.

[Killakobe81]

I can make a reasonable guess as to how likely your list of priorities will happen.

- Unlikely, these are rich kids born with silver spoons in their mouths. They are spoiled, have enormous egos, and not a lot of brains.

You already know the answer, and it's no.

- No matter how you evaluate a turd, it's a turd.

Jury's still out, but it ain't looking good.

Who will take him? He is all LA though, he personifies the lifestyle the Buss kids were selling to FAs. You can't blame him, he merely acted on what he was promised.

You are talking about a borderline starter in this league, and Laker fans are treating him as some kind of saviour. Face it, he put up numbers because the Lakers were bad, and somebody had to put up numbers.

Unlikely, you guys can't even draft properly with high picks, how are you supposed to get diamonds in the rough? You are talking about players who nobody else wanted. They may be able to do a few things very very well, but these are role players that require a system, and the Lakers have no direction, let alone a system.

You should pray for miracles.



You are right, Kobe should be last on your list. How Laker fans are revering Kobe is beyond me. This is a guy who cost you multiple championships. He didn't win 5 rings, the Lakers won 5 rings despite him.

This last part is bullshit, but I wont bother because we have been down that road. I think some of your conclusions above are overly pessimistic BUT until the games start your views are just as valid as anyone else ... why dont we agree to bump this post and mine when we have some proof shall we? Otherwise it's just speculation and you are far from objective on the subject matter.

[ambchang]

This last part is bullshit, but I wont bother because we have been down that road. I think some of your conclusions above are overly pessimistic BUT until the games start your views are just as valid as anyone else ... why dont we agree to bump this post and mine when we have some proof shall we? Otherwise it's just speculation and you are far from objective on the subject matter.

Fair. I don't pretend to be able to predict the future, but the Lakers really aren't look that good right now, sort of like the Knicks, and the Knicks have been in the doldrums for a few years now.

Unless something drastic happens (like signing Durant, Buss kids all die in a plane crash, Clarkson and Russell both turn out to be all-star caliber players, Kobe becomes a team player), the Lakers will become the WC doormat for a few years.

[Buddy Mignon]

Fair. I don't pretend to be able to predict the future, but the Lakers really aren't look that good right now, sort of like the Knicks, and the Knicks have been in the doldrums for a few years now.

Unless something drastic happens (like signing Durant, Buss kids all die in a plane crash, Clarkson and Russell both turn out to be all-star caliber players, Kobe becomes a team player), the Lakers will become the WC doormat for a few years.

You must be out your rabid ass mind. We're a lock for the playoffs from here on out.

[Killakobe81]

Fair. I don't pretend to be able to predict the future, but the Lakers really aren't look that good right now, sort of like the Knicks, and the Knicks have been in the doldrums for a few years now.

Unless something drastic happens (like signing Durant, Buss kids all die in a plane crash, Clarkson and Russell both turn out to be all-star caliber players, Kobe becomes a team player), the Lakers will become the WC doormat for a few years.

Let me ask you one last question ... this the same core team, a team that you said should win 35 to 40 games last year? So what is the more accurate prediction that we could win that many last year in a tough West or that we will be shitty like last year even with the additions we have made? why last year when I told you how lucky we would be to win more than 25 games is now the worst team in the West?

And btw, we are not the Knicks. Outside of both being in big markets we have nothing in common except we both suck right now.

[spurraider21]

You must be out your rabid ass mind. We're a lock for the playoffs from here on out.
unintentional humor is always the best

[Buddy Mignon]

unintentional humor is always the best


You really want this dick, huh?

[spurraider21]

You really want this dick, huh?
nobody in their right might wants ur shrimp paki dick

go buy urself a sasuke themed fleshlight

[ambchang]

You must be out your rabid ass mind. We're a lock for the playoffs from here on out.

Would you swear by the honour of the nine-tailed dragon that the Lakers will make the playoffs in 15-16?

[ambchang]

Let me ask you one last question ... this the same core team, a team that you said should win 35 to 40 games last year? So what is the more accurate prediction that we could win that many last year in a tough West or that we will be shitty like last year even with the additions we have made? why last year when I told you how lucky we would be to win more than 25 games is now the worst team in the West?

And btw, we are not the Knicks. Outside of both being in big markets we have nothing in common except we both suck right now.

It's not the same core, you are crazy man. You lost Ed Davis, Julius Randle seems to be a lot worse than I originally thought, the Kobe virus has clearly spread to Swaggy P, Lin is gone (laugh as much as you want, he did something for you), Scott was way worse as a coach as I originally thought.

As for the parallel with the Knicks:
1) Big market teams
2) Both suck big time
3) Antiquated system
4) Melo vs Kobe
5) No future (hello, draft picks, hello?)
6) Horrible ownership
7) Milking the cash cow by selling false hope to a loyal but ultimately delusional fanbase

[Killakobe81]

It's not the same core, you are crazy man. You lost Ed Davis, Julius Randle seems to be a lot worse than I originally thought, the Kobe virus has clearly spread to Swaggy P, Lin is gone (laugh as much as you want, he did something for you), Scott was way worse as a coach as I originally thought.

As for the parallel with the Knicks:
1) Big market teams
2) Both suck big time
3) Antiquated system
4) Melo vs Kobe
5) No future (hello, draft picks, hello?)
6) Horrible ownership
7) Milking the cash cow by selling false hope to a loyal but ultimately delusional fanbase

Huh, how is Randle worse based off what? SL? Seriously? either you overrated him greatly or are much to knee-jerk now. I would take a core of Russell, Clarkson, Randle and upshaw over any prospects the Knicks have. Porzingis will be good in time but what other young assets do the Knicks have ... oh wait I like the Grant kid they drafted too ...

[Buddy Mignon]

Would you swear by the honour of the nine-tailed dragon that the Lakers will make the playoffs in 15-16?

I have a bet with splits for a 1k hooker that we do.

[ambchang]

Huh, how is Randle worse based off what? SL? Seriously? either you overrated him greatly or are much to knee-jerk now. I would take a core of Russell, Clarkson, Randle and upshaw over any prospects the Knicks have. Porzingis will be good in time but what other young assets do the Knicks have ... oh wait I like the Grant kid they drafted too ...

Based on his broken leg.
Again, clarkson is a borderline starting PG, Russell takes some time, he lacks speed and is an average shooter with an average release

[ambchang]

I have a bet with splits for a 1k hooker that we do.

How do you bet that? I am pretty sure s/he wouldn't do it with either of you for $1k

Also, confirmed that you won't swear by the honour of the nine tailed dragon. I knew there is a point for everyone where they won't be willing to bet due to the preciousness of the item, even for a welching loser like you, and its Naruto for you.

[Chucho]

You must be out your rabid ass mind. We're a lock for the playoffs from here on out.

More likely: The Lakers making the Playoffs or you stop sucking your own dick?

C'mon, there is trolling, trying to troll and that fine line of trying to troll and just being a fucking moron. You crossed that line years ago...I would like to assume so you could hang out with Kool and Cub, but let's not discount the fact that you are a fucking moron too. Go ahead and have the surgery to have your missing rib replaced.

[Buddy Mignon]

More likely: The Lakers making the Playoffs or you stop sucking your own dick?

C'mon, there is trolling, trying to troll and that fine line of trying to troll and just being a fucking moron. You crossed that line years ago...I would like to assume so you could hang out with Kool and Cub, but let's not discount the fact that you are a fucking moron too. Go ahead and have the surgery to have your missing rib replaced.

We have a better chance of making the playoffs than you have at winning a title.

[Chucho]

No, no you don't. You have a better chance of succeeding in the real world. And that likelihood is slim and none and slim killed itself a lonnnnggggg time before you ran, hid and changed your name, Naruto.


Carry on.

[BD24]

We have a better chance of making the playoffs than you have at winning a title.
:lol. Just like no one was beating the Heat in 2014 right?

[Silver&Black]

We have a better chance of making the playoffs than you have at winning a title.

:lmao

This one post just shows how the mighty have fallen....

[Buddy Mignon]

:lmao

This one post just shows how the mighty have fallen....

Even the mighty have to rebuild at some point.

[Silver&Black]

Even the mighty have to rebuild at some point.

I guess you won't be taking that ELE bet...

Better record Spurs or Lakers?

[Splits]

Even the mighty have to rebuild at some point.

Not the Spurs

And I thought :cry we don't rebuild we reload :cry was the purple-n-piss mantra? Oh, I forgot. Kirby can't play past age 33 other than lead PnP to 3 straight lotteries.

Ha ha.

[Killakobe81]

Not the Spurs

And I thought :cry we don't rebuild we reload :cry was the purple-n-piss mantra? Oh, I forgot. Kirby can't play past age 33 other than lead PnP to 3 straight lotteries.

Ha ha.

Yes you will ... post Duncan, yall aint winning shit

[~O~]

He's not going to win it unless its media decided like MCW was. He's probably going to try and put up stats that will only hurt his team because he's not moving the ball. Most of all, he's a rookie in the western conference. Russell is will get abused and have his confidence bashed in by veterans like Westbrook Lillard Curry Paul Conley Wall etc.

[SpurSwag]

I can make a reasonable guess as to how likely your list of priorities will happen.

- Unlikely, these are rich kids born with silver spoons in their mouths. They are spoiled, have enormous egos, and not a lot of brains.

You already know the answer, and it's no.

- No matter how you evaluate a turd, it's a turd.

Jury's still out, but it ain't looking good.

Who will take him? He is all LA though, he personifies the lifestyle the Buss kids were selling to FAs. You can't blame him, he merely acted on what he was promised.

You are talking about a borderline starter in this league, and Laker fans are treating him as some kind of saviour. Face it, he put up numbers because the Lakers were bad, and somebody had to put up numbers.

Unlikely, you guys can't even draft properly with high picks, how are you supposed to get diamonds in the rough? You are talking about players who nobody else wanted. They may be able to do a few things very very well, but these are role players that require a system, and the Lakers have no direction, let alone a system.

You should pray for miracles.



You are right, Kobe should be last on your list. How Laker fans are revering Kobe is beyond me. This is a guy who cost you multiple championships. He didn't win 5 rings, the Lakers won 5 rings despite him.

this is such an annoying post man, i'm not a lakers fan or anything but try to have some damn objectivity. The odds russell, clarkson, and randle all suck is pretty low realistically. And no the lakers didn't win 5 rings despite Kobe that's just stupid.

[ambchang]

this is such an annoying post man, i'm not a lakers fan or anything but try to have some damn objectivity. The odds russell, clarkson, and randle all suck is pretty low realistically. And no the lakers didn't win 5 rings despite Kobe that's just stupid.

Your post is highly enlightening. Not annoying at all.

[Mark Celibate]

He definitely has a chance to win RoY if he can pad up stats with poor efficiency like MCW did, but the precondition is that Kobe quits the season soon enough.

[Killakobe81]

this is such an annoying post man, i'm not a lakers fan or anything but try to have some damn objectivity. The odds russell, clarkson, and randle all suck is pretty low realistically. And no the lakers didn't win 5 rings despite Kobe that's just stupid.

Truth nukes

[Mark Celibate]

Ambchink is like one of the least annoying chinks around this place tbh, non-American Lockets fans are much worse.

[Splits]

Let it begin...

649733457019465728

[Kool Bob Love]

Hemi

[rastaspur]

D'bust needs to lay off that pcp. He is having delusions of grandeur. Lakers aren't making the playoffs.

[DPG21920]

Yes you will ... post Duncan, yall aint winning shit

Well thats still better than current Kobe and not winning shit

[Kool Bob Love]

Yes you will ... post Duncan, yall aint winning shit

Last person to be talking about winning. Your on route to back2back2back lottery years. Something my Spurs have never experience pre or post Duncan. So shut the fuck up plz.

[DPG21920]

Yes you will ... post Duncan, yall aint winning shit

How can you be confident in this thread about LA's future, but act like SA can't win post Duncan? Spurs have a better young core than LA already and our current team is also better. If SA ain't winning shit with our young core, LA has zero chance now or for years to come.

[Kool Bob Love]

Yes you will ... post Duncan, yall aint winning shit

Your young players can't even stay on the floor. Randle is done. And D'bust is already breaking down in training camp.

yikes.

[DPG21920]

Mudiay is in a much better spot to win ROY. He looks like he could have a higher ceiling and he's also not playing next to Kobe. It would be very surprising if Russ had a ROY type year. Doesn't mean his ceiling isn't high, but he seems like someone that might need a while to reach that potential.

[Buddy Mignon]

Mudiay is in a much better spot to win ROY. He looks like he could have a higher ceiling and he's also not playing next to Kobe. It would be very surprising if Russ had a ROY type year. Doesn't mean his ceiling isn't high, but he seems like someone that might need a while to reach that potential.

He won't get the minutes or shine to win the award. Typically this award goes to the best player on a shitty team... not to a player on contending teams.

[DPG21920]

He won't get the minutes or shine to win the award. Typically this award goes to the best player on a shitty team... not to a player on contending teams.

Nuggets aren't contending. They will be a mediocre team and they traded away Lawson to give the ball to Mudiay. He's in a good spot.

[DPG21920]

And yes, I know you were trying to be cute by implying LA was the contending team.

[Killakobe81]

Your young players can't even stay on the floor. Randle is done. And D'bust is already breaking down in training camp.

yikes.

Relax. Its week one of camp. Nicca putting in work gets nicked up ...shit happens

[Killakobe81]

How can you be confident in this thread about LA's future, but act like SA can't win post Duncan? Spurs have a better young core than LA already and our current team is also better. If SA ain't winning shit with our young core, LA has zero chance now or for years to come.

Show me where i have confidence. If you read above i questioned the coach and talked how the Buss feuds need to stop. Im just not overly pessimistic but i did not even predict playoffs for this team. I do expect to be contenders in 3 years but even that doest mean championship ...but yes i do feel confident you wont ring post Duncan. You will be good still because of Pop ...but you wont ring with kiwi or Aldridge as your leaders ....

Lol i speak truths and the response is your team sux ...does the truth hurt? How does the Lakers struggles help change anything for your Spurs? You had an all-time great in David ... but didnt win shit till Tim got there. Pop, just like Phil needs all time greats to lead the title run. Until you get another ... you won't ring PERIOD ... and neither will the Lakers ...if it makes you feel better.

[RD2191]

Show me where i have confidence. If you read above i questioned the coach and talked how the Buss feuds need to stop. Im just not overly pessimistic but i did not even predict playoffs for this team. I do expect to be contenders in 3 years but even that doest mean championship ...but yes i do feel confident you wont ring post Duncan. You will be good still because of Pop ...but you wont ring with kiwi or Aldridge as your leaders ....

Lol i speak truths and the response is your team sux ...does the truth hurt? How does the Lakers struggles help change anything for your Spurs? You had an all-time great in David ... but didnt win shit till Tim got there. Pop, just like Phil needs all time greats to lead the title run. Until you get another ... you won't ring PERIOD ... and neither will the Lakers ...if it makes you feel better.
Do you actually believe the shit you say?

[Raven]

this is such an annoying post man, i'm not a lakers fan or anything but try to have some damn objectivity. The odds russell, clarkson, and randle all suck is pretty low realistically. And no the lakers didn't win 5 rings despite Kobe that's just stupid.


I'd say it's about 60% chance that they all suck and 30% that clarckson can be decent and 10% dbust can be decent

[DPG21920]

Do you actually believe the shit you say?

I don't think always - but he's a good dude.

[Killakobe81]

Do you actually believe the shit you say?

What is the issue here? In short I said ..

1. I "expect" Lakers to be contenders in three years ..not that they will or that I promise they will but that is my hope and expectation for a franchise like ours. Note: I also never thought it would take 12 years for us to ring after 1988 so I could be wrong ...

2. Spurs wont ring post Duncan ...without another sure-fire HOF player to lead them. David was an amazing player ... no doubt HOf'er but yet couldnt ring before Timmy. So are you telling LMA or Kiwi is going to lead a title team sans Timmy? Nicca please. David is much better than either guy and I love Kiwi. what is more likely your team that never won shit before Tim winning a title with Aldridge as the lead dog or you guys not winning without Duncan?

3. Last I said neither the Lakers or Spurs will ring (post Tim/Kobe) until they find their next transcendant star (plus the Lakers need a coach).

What is shocking or earth shattering about what I said. Please prove a solid argument that I am wrong on any of the above. Like I said, my team sucks ...none of that changes my argument.

[Killakobe81]

I don't think always - but he's a good dude.

Thanks bro but you dont have to defend me his response was shitty anyways.

[DPG21920]

What is the issue here? In short I said ..

1. I "expect" Lakers to be contenders in three years ..not that they will or that I promise they will but that is my hope and expectation for a franchise like ours. Note: I also never thought it would take 12 years for us to ring after 1988 so I could be wrong ...

2. Spurs wont ring post Duncan ...without another sure-fire HOF player to lead them. David was an amazing player ... no doubt HOf'er but yet couldnt ring before Timmy. So are you telling LMA or Kiwi is going to lead a title team sans Timmy? Nicca please. David is much better than either guy and I love Kiwi. what is more likely your team that never won shit before Tim winning a title with Aldridge as the lead dog or you guys not winning without Duncan?

3. Last I said neither the Lakers or Spurs will ring (post Tim/Kobe) until they find their next transcendant star (plus the Lakers need a coach).

What is shocking or earth shattering about what I said. Please prove a solid argument that I am wrong on any of the above. Like I said, my team sucks ...none of that changes my argument.

My man, saying you expect a team to be a contender in 3 years implies confidence. If you didn't have confidence in that, there would be no logical reason to expect that. But since you do expect that, you are saying LA is a contender in 3 years (contender means you have a shot to win a title). Then saying LA won't win a ring post Kobe (or with Kobe) contradicts that.

You can't expect to be a contender then rule out winning a title. If you have zero shot at winning a title, you cannot be a contender.

If you expect LA to be a contender, you have to have SA above them even post Duncan considering SA has a better young core already than LA so we have a head start.

Very little of what you just said makes any sense for the above reasons.

[ambchang]

What is the issue here? In short I said ..

1. I "expect" Lakers to be contenders in three years ..not that they will or that I promise they will but that is my hope and expectation for a franchise like ours. Note: I also never thought it would take 12 years for us to ring after 1988 so I could be wrong ...

What are your expectations based on though? The Lakers management has proved to be woefully incompetent based on the last few years, missing on obvious opportunities and just making decisions that are head-scratching to say the least. It would take a huge 180 for the Lakers to be contenders again.


2. Spurs wont ring post Duncan ...without another sure-fire HOF player to lead them. David was an amazing player ... no doubt HOf'er but yet couldnt ring before Timmy. So are you telling LMA or Kiwi is going to lead a title team sans Timmy? Nicca please. David is much better than either guy and I love Kiwi. what is more likely your team that never won shit before Tim winning a title with Aldridge as the lead dog or you guys not winning without Duncan?

Here you go looking at one single player again. Would you say Chauncey Billups was a better player than Robinson? Even Dirk, Wade, Garnett, and Pierce doesn't have much of a case over Robinson as an individual, and yet they all won a ring because they had better teams. The Spurs with a foundation Kawhi and Aldridge along with a strong management team can be a title winner when things fall the right way, just like they did for the Heat and the Pistons, especially in the days where the emphasis is on team play and ball movement.


3. Last I said neither the Lakers or Spurs will ring (post Tim/Kobe) until they find their next transcendant star (plus the Lakers need a coach).

What is shocking or earth shattering about what I said. Please prove a solid argument that I am wrong on any of the above. Like I said, my team sucks ...none of that changes my argument.

You insistence of the single superstar model is flawed. GS showed it last year, Spurs showed it the year before, and both times they beat the best player in the game.

[Killakobe81]

What are your expectations based on though? The Lakers management has proved to be woefully incompetent based on the last few years, missing on obvious opportunities and just making decisions that are head-scratching to say the least. It would take a huge 180 for the Lakers to be contenders again.



Here you go looking at one single player again. Would you say Chauncey Billups was a better player than Robinson? Even Dirk, Wade, Garnett, and Pierce doesn't have much of a case over Robinson as an individual, and yet they all won a ring because they had better teams. The Spurs with a foundation Kawhi and Aldridge along with a strong management team can be a title winner when things fall the right way, just like they did for the Heat and the Pistons, especially in the days where the emphasis is on team play and ball movement.



You insistence of the single superstar model is flawed. GS showed it last year, Spurs showed it the year before, and both times they beat the best player in the game.

I never said a "single star" would win. I said that David did not win until Tim was there to lead them.You can make excuses for him, and some would be valid but that is a fact. Some players Like David, Pau, Aldridge, Pau, Manu,Tony Parker etc. are great hall of fame type players but are not able to lead good teams to a title. With the right leader (tim/Pop/Manu or Fisher/Kobe/Phil) they are able to win.

BTW, Curry though nowhere close to Tim's level was the MVP and a true star. I do think their win was more about their versatility and pace ... but he absolutely stepped up and drove the title bus. Whether he is as good as David Robinson or not he is still the best player on a title team. David was not.

Spurs in 2014 were still led by Tim btw ... aren't you the one who said that if the Spurs win in 2015 Tim's leadership would be a big reason why? :lol How is that less true in 2014? Didnt you spend days arguing with DMC over that very point? Where is your freaking consistency, Amb? So the Spurs with Tim still playing at all-star level are not among the favorites to win this year, but then they can win without him with Aldridge and Kiwi leading the way? What leadership abilities has anyone on the Spurs roster shown outside of Manu, tim and Pop?

As for the Lakers they suck right now we both know it. But I still will not expect anything less than bck to WCF contenders in three years. If we are not then we have failed. I dont give a shit about all teh drama you posted only results. We have money, will soon have cap-space we are still in L.A> if they are not within 3 years I would expect Scott, jim buss and possibly even Mitch to be gone.

[Raven]

What is the issue here? In short I said ..

1. I "expect" Lakers to be contenders in three years ..not that they will or that I promise they will but that is my hope and expectation for a franchise like ours. Note: I also never thought it would take 12 years for us to ring after 1988 so I could be wrong ...

2. Spurs wont ring post Duncan ...without another sure-fire HOF player to lead them. David was an amazing player ... no doubt HOf'er but yet couldnt ring before Timmy. So are you telling LMA or Kiwi is going to lead a title team sans Timmy? Nicca please. David is much better than either guy and I love Kiwi. what is more likely your team that never won shit before Tim winning a title with Aldridge as the lead dog or you guys not winning without Duncan?

3. Last I said neither the Lakers or Spurs will ring (post Tim/Kobe) until they find their next transcendant star (plus the Lakers need a coach).

What is shocking or earth shattering about what I said. Please prove a solid argument that I am wrong on any of the above. Like I said, my team sucks ...none of that changes my argument.


it's just baffling to see, that the lakers fans still believe that the nba is a league of superstars...

[Killakobe81]

it's just baffling to see, that the lakers fans still believe that the nba is a league of superstars...

Hmm. Lebron has appeared in 5 straight finals. I think that proves that the best way to be a contender, is to have a superstar. The last 10 titles (pre curry) team has had:

1. Tim
2. Shaq
3. Kobe
4. Lebron
5. Wade
6. Dirk
7. KG/Pierce

as it's best player. You have the 2004 Pistons and arguably the Warriors as book-ends. Which model do you think is better? Scratch that which model has won more consistently? Building around the transcendant star or the koombya Pistons model ? The problem in the NBA is that people want to throw money at the wrong star players. Dwight, Melo etc. are never gonna lead title teams. But if you get lucky enough to get the right star players especially two (David/Tim, Kobe/Shaq Pau/Kobe, Wade/LeBron) you can win multiple titles.

Even though the Spurs offense has changed ..Tim's efficiency on more limited touches cannot be under estimated. Plus he is still a great positional defender and rim protector. Tim still lead you in 2014. Dont let the pace and space fool ya ...

[Raven]

Hmm. Lebron has appeared in 5 straight finals. I think that proves that the best way to be a contender, is to have a superstar. The last 10 titles (pre curry) team has had:

1. Tim
2. Shaq
3. Kobe
4. Lebron
5. Wade
6. Dirk
7. KG/Pierce

as it's best player. You have the 2004 Pistons and arguably the Warriors as book-ends. Which model do you think is better? The problem in the NBA is that people want to throw money at the wrong star players. Dwight, Melo etc. are never gonna lead title teams. But if you get lucky enough to get the right star players especially two (David/Tim, Kobe/Shaq Pau/Kobe, Wade/LeBron) you can win multiple titles.

Even though the Spurs offense has changed ..Tim's efficiency on more limited touches cannot be under estimated. Plus he is still a great positional defender and rim protector. Tim still lead you in 2014. Dont let the pace and space fool ya ...

All of which were great examples of team depth winning against superstar power.

[Killakobe81]

All of which were great examples of team depth winning against superstar power.

Again never said a star can win alone. Even MJ did not win alone. Still doesnt change the facts no Tim = no rings for SA ...

[Raven]

Again never said a star can win alone. Even MJ did not win alone. Still doesnt change the facts no Tim = no rings for SA ...
yeah, that pretty much changes that being a fact. Neither KG nor PP nor RA were top 3 players when they won the title, Dirk wasn't, Kirby never was anyway and when he won he had a top 3 and other great pieces, lebron needed another top 5 player and another top 20 and good pieces around, Shaq needed kirby and Bigshot, timmy need manu and tony and so on.. it's not about being the best player, it's about having as many franchise type players at the same time and having great role players and so on. Kawhi and Aldridge are franchise players and the spurs have many great role players and are the best at adding talent for cheap. So I don't know what you're basing your theory on. Especially since the new cba and tv money help the smaller teams a lot.

[Killakobe81]

yeah, that pretty much changes that being a fact. Neither KG nor PP nor RA were top 3 players when they won the title, Dirk wasn't, Kirby never was anyway and when he won he had a top 3 and other great pieces, lebron needed another top 5 player and another top 20 and good pieces around, Shaq needed kirby and Bigshot, timmy need manu and tony and so on.. it's not about being the best player, it's about having as many franchise type players at the same time and having great role players and so on. Kawhi and Aldridge are franchise players and the spurs have many great role players and are the best at adding talent for cheap. So I don't know what you're basing your theory on. Especially since the new cba and tv money help the smaller teams a lot.

:lol thanks didnt read rest though when you say stupid shit like that ...

[Raven]

:lol thanks didnt read rest though when you say stupid shit like that ...

you're right, he was a top 3 when he couldn't get into the play offs :lol

[HemisfairArena]

I called it,,,me,,,and every other Spurs fan on here. Karma has arrived and isn't leaving anytime soon for Laker fan. No big time free agents. No healthy lottery picks. No good head coaches. No chance. Yikes!!!!

[313]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXBt0jwxtpg

[Kool Bob Love]

^The Sam Bowie of PGs.^

[Kool Bob Love]

I called it,,,me,,,and every other Spurs fan on here. Karma has arrived and isn't leaving anytime soon for Laker fan. No big time free agents. No healthy lottery picks. No good head coaches. No chance. Yikes!!!!

like poetry Hemi. :tu

[Splits]

^The Sam Bowie of PGs.^

I was hoping more for the Len Bias...

[HemisfairArena]

Okafor

[Splits]

D'Bust picking right where he left off in summer league in today's preseason game with a 2-8 shooting night. Also looks like Randle really has a nice mid-range game, posted a solid 2-10 shooting night.

[RsxPiimp]

D'Bust picking right where he left off in summer league in today's preseason game with a 2-8 shooting night. Also looks like Randle really has a nice mid-range game, posted a solid 2-10 shooting night.

Both needs a lot of work but Randle is lookin like a bust. Dude has no offensive game whatsoever. A pure tweener.

[spurraider21]

:lol lakers
:lol kobe 1-5
:lol randle 2-10
:lol clarkson 4-13
:lol russell 2-8
:lol hibbert 1-5

your starting 5, ladies and gentlemen

but what about the scoring punch off the bench, you ask?

:lol lou williams 4-12
:lol brandon bass 2-9
:lol nick young is your player of the game at 4-10

[BD24]

:lol lakers
:lol kobe 1-5
:lol randle 2-10
:lol clarkson 4-13
:lol russell 2-8
:lol hibbert 1-5

your starting 5, ladies and gentlemen

but what about the scoring punch off the bench, you ask?

:lol lou williams 4-12
:lol brandon bass 2-9
:lol nick young is your player of the game at 4-10
:(But Lakers are winning 50 games and Kobe will be a top 10 player :(

[ambchang]

I never said a "single star" would win. I said that David did not win until Tim was there to lead them.You can make excuses for him, and some would be valid but that is a fact. Some players Like David, Pau, Aldridge, Pau, Manu,Tony Parker etc. are great hall of fame type players but are not able to lead good teams to a title. With the right leader (tim/Pop/Manu or Fisher/Kobe/Phil) they are able to win.

So you'd think a center who had Avery Johnson as his best PG, along with Vinny Del Negro could win the title? You know what happened to centers when they don't have guards who can shoot? They miss playoffs!

It's not an aberration, it's what happens year after year.
- Kareem missed two playoffs in a row (although that was some weird division thing), in his prime, even when he had Bob Dandrige by his side. Because he Jim Price as his best guard. He couldn't even get Gail Goodrich to the playoffs.
- Hakeem couldn't even get in the playoffs with the roster he eventually won a championship with because they didn't develop an inside out game to cater to his strengths
- Shaq couldn't make the playoffs with Dennis Scott and Nick Anderson playing next to him (albeit in his rookie year) because he didn't have a guard the quality of a Penny, Kobe or Wade

Yet Robinson drags that awful no perimeter Spurs team to the playoffs with 50 wins year after year, only to be exposed in the playoffs and kicked out because people are too stupid to realize how deeply flawed those Spurs teams were. Relying on Lloyd Daniels as the saviour? Cory Alexander was some sort of new hope? Way over the hill Dale Ellis and Chuck Person were the designated shooters when both your PG and SG can't shoot?


BTW, Curry though nowhere close to Tim's level was the MVP and a true star. I do think their win was more about their versatility and pace ... but he absolutely stepped up and drove the title bus. Whether he is as good as David Robinson or not he is still the best player on a title team. David was not.

Yeah, because he had Klay Thompson, Draymond Green, Andrew Bogut, Iggy, and an extremely well constructed team that has not clear weaknesses on them. Compared to a team with Sean Elliott, Avery Johnson, Dennis Rodman, Vinny Del Negro with Bob Hill as a coach.

Your reasoning is beyond stupid, it's like saying Chauncey Billups was the best player on the title team. John Stockton was not. What does that mean? Hmmm ... Billups was on a better team?


Spurs in 2014 were still led by Tim btw ... aren't you the one who said that if the Spurs win in 2015 Tim's leadership would be a big reason why? :lol How is that less true in 2014? Didnt you spend days arguing with DMC over that very point? Where is your freaking consistency, Amb? So the Spurs with Tim still playing at all-star level are not among the favorites to win this year, but then they can win without him with Aldridge and Kiwi leading the way? What leadership abilities has anyone on the Spurs roster shown outside of Manu, tim and Pop?


You saw me saying Tim is not the leader of the Spurs? Where is your freaking comprehension skills, Killa? Did I say Pop doesn't have any leadership skills?


As for the Lakers they suck right now we both know it. But I still will not expect anything less than bck to WCF contenders in three years. If we are not then we have failed. I dont give a shit about all teh drama you posted only results. We have money, will soon have cap-space we are still in L.A> if they are not within 3 years I would expect Scott, jim buss and possibly even Mitch to be gone.

Speaking about consistency ... A team with Kawhi and Aldridge are not contenders, and a team with D'Bust, Randbust and Clark-overrated-son will. Great logic.

[Buddy Mignon]

50 wins and 6th seed.

[spurraider21]

50 wins and 6th seed.
$500

[Splits]

50 wins and 6th seed.

Even the biggest homers on LG have them o/u @ 34 wins :lol

http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=175186

[Buddy Mignon]

Even the biggest homers on LG have them o/u @ 34 wins :lol

http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=175186

Im not a homer... I'm an expert at this shit. If you notice I don't post on any Lakers forum.

[spurraider21]

50 wins and 6th seed.


$500

[Killakobe81]

So you'd think a center who had Avery Johnson as his best PG, along with Vinny Del Negro could win the title? You know what happened to centers when they don't have guards who can shoot? They miss playoffs!

It's not an aberration, it's what happens year after year.
- Kareem missed two playoffs in a row (although that was some weird division thing), in his prime, even when he had Bob Dandrige by his side. Because he Jim Price as his best guard. He couldn't even get Gail Goodrich to the playoffs.
- Hakeem couldn't even get in the playoffs with the roster he eventually won a championship with because they didn't develop an inside out game to cater to his strengths
- Shaq couldn't make the playoffs with Dennis Scott and Nick Anderson playing next to him (albeit in his rookie year) because he didn't have a guard the quality of a Penny, Kobe or Wade

Yet Robinson drags that awful no perimeter Spurs team to the playoffs with 50 wins year after year, only to be exposed in the playoffs and kicked out because people are too stupid to realize how deeply flawed those Spurs teams were. Relying on Lloyd Daniels as the saviour? Cory Alexander was some sort of new hope? Way over the hill Dale Ellis and Chuck Person were the designated shooters when both your PG and SG can't shoot?



Yeah, because he had Klay Thompson, Draymond Green, Andrew Bogut, Iggy, and an extremely well constructed team that has not clear weaknesses on them. Compared to a team with Sean Elliott, Avery Johnson, Dennis Rodman, Vinny Del Negro with Bob Hill as a coach.

Your reasoning is beyond stupid, it's like saying Chauncey Billups was the best player on the title team. John Stockton was not. What does that mean? Hmmm ... Billups was on a better team?



You saw me saying Tim is not the leader of the Spurs? Where is your freaking comprehension skills, Killa? Did I say Pop doesn't have any leadership skills?



Speaking about consistency ... A team with Kawhi and Aldridge are not contenders, and a team with D'Bust, Randbust and Clark-overrated-son will. Great logic.

all of that and you still missed my point.
Did David lead a title team, yes or no Amb? No.

Never said Billups was better than Stockton but he did lead a title team without anyone as good as Karl Malone on his roster. Does that mean he is better? No. but that is a fact. And who brings up Billups who is not even a HOF when discussing Stockton? It's just like the Robert Horry argument and is just silly. Isiah is the better comparison and he did lead a team to a title, as did Curry.

Those Spur teams were not great. But you do see the same argument/excuses you just made for David are the same ones you can make for Kobe before he lead a team to a title, right? He had shitty guard play and inconsistent "stars" like Odom for support but when you are in "bash Kobe mode" all of a sudden Odom is part of a historic Celtics 80's big 3 front-line that desrves the lion's share of the credit for the '09/10 titles ...and was plenty of help for a team that featured Luke Walton, Chris Mihm, chucky Atkins and Smush Parker playing key roles.

THAT is the inconsistency I speak of.

But it's OK, I see through all your bull-shit but you can carry on for those that don't. But if you wish to ever continue to discuss hoops on non Kobe related topics you will refrain from calling my logic "stupid". It's childish and just because you disagree with someone or something no need to name call. I once called your logic and reasoning "feminine" but have decided that I am above that and you deserve more respect ...

... Even if this post reeks, with a mixture of Massengill and Bath & Body works ....

Kidding.

[ambchang]

all of that and you still missed my point.
Did David lead a title team, yes or no Amb? No.

What does that mean though? That's my point.


Never said Billups was better than Stockton but he did lead a title team without anyone as good as Karl Malone on his roster. Does that mean he is better? No. but that is a fact. And who brings up Billups who is not even a HOF when discussing Stockton? It's just like the Robert Horry argument and is just silly. Isiah is the better comparison and he did lead a team to a title, as did Curry.

So again, what does it mean?


Those Spur teams were not great. But you do see the same argument/excuses you just made for David are the same ones you can make for Kobe before he lead a team to a title, right? He had shitty guard play and inconsistent "stars" like Odom for support but when you are in "bash Kobe mode" all of a sudden Odom is part of a historic Celtics 80's big 3 front-line that desrves the lion's share of the credit for the '09/10 titles ...and was plenty of help for a team that featured Luke Walton, Chris Mihm, chucky Atkins and Smush Parker playing key roles.

Robinson didn't miss the playoffs, he over-achieved and took his team to 50 wins year after year, only to be exposed in the playoffs. Kobe on the other hand, missed the playoffs, at the absolute peak of his prime.

I wasn't saying Robinson needed an all-world back court, I said he needed a competent one. Kobe needed an all-world front court EVERY, SINGLE, TIME, he won a championship, oh, and he never led his team in WS in any of the championship years, nor did he lead his team in too many advanced stats during those championship years. It's not an aberration, it all five times.


THAT is the inconsistency I speak of. Pretty consistent to me.


But it's OK, I see through all your bull-shit but you can carry on for those that don't. But if you wish to ever continue to discuss hoops on non Kobe related topics you will refrain from calling my logic "stupid". It's childish and just because you disagree with someone or something no need to name call. I once called your logic and reasoning "feminine" but have decided that I am above that and you deserve more respect ...

... Even if this post reeks, with a mixture of Massengill and Bath & Body works ....

Kidding.

If you didn't realize those Spurs teams were flawed as hell, then you deserved to be called stupid, because that is the correct term. I didn't realized it was you when I typed that out though.

[Killakobe81]

What does that mean though? That's my point.



So again, what does it mean?



Robinson didn't miss the playoffs, he over-achieved and took his team to 50 wins year after year, only to be exposed in the playoffs. Kobe on the other hand, missed the playoffs, at the absolute peak of his prime.

I wasn't saying Robinson needed an all-world back court, I said he needed a competent one. Kobe needed an all-world front court EVERY, SINGLE, TIME, he won a championship, oh, and he never led his team in WS in any of the championship years, nor did he lead his team in too many advanced stats during those championship years. It's not an aberration, it all five times.

Pretty consistent to me.



If you didn't realize those Spurs teams were flawed as hell, then you deserved to be called stupid, because that is the correct term. I didn't realized it was you when I typed that out though.

What does it mean? it means what i wrote he didnt lead his team to a title. I dont post in riddle form and you never answered the question ...

We dont discuss Kobe anymore so ill ignore all of those points ...we have been down that road plenty of times ... but good to know people that diagree with your un impeachable argumnents are stupid. Using that term is great for healthy debates ...noted

[RsxPiimp]

DLo down. Damn splits :lmao

[Killakobe81]

DLo down. Damn splits :lmao

Relax. Just a bruise. Glad to see Randle and Kobe play better and injury to Russell is minor. Its just preseason though

[Raven]

This is great news for Russell and the Lakers, and we fully expect to see him again in the second half. He simply has a bruised butt, so it looks like a serious injury has been avoided after he mistakenly tried to stop Rudy Gobert from driving to the hole.


:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[ceds]

From 1999 to 2015

Kobe , Shaq, TD and Lebron account for 12 titles

Even in the off years where the celtics, pistons, mavs and warriors won they were facing one of the 4 above players in the finals.

Transcendent superstar is clearly the best way to a ring

[Splits]

From 1999 to 2015

MVPau, Shaq, TD and Lebron account for 12 titles

Even in the off years where the celtics, pistons, mavs and warriors won they were facing one of the 4 above players in the finals.

Transcendent superstar is clearly the best way to a ring

fixed

[Killakobe81]

From 1999 to 2015

Kobe , Shaq, TD and Lebron account for 12 titles

Even in the off years where the celtics, pistons, mavs and warriors won they were facing one of the 4 above players in the finals.

Transcendent superstar is clearly the best way to a ring

This. Look how many things need to break right to win the other way and it's not as sustainable. HOF coach plus transcendant star is the best way to win titles. They need help of course no one wins alone. But if I was building a team I would rather take Davis and let's say Brad Stevens and build around them versus trying to find the magic dust of say the 2004 Pistons ...

[Raven]

From 1999 to 2015

Kobe , Shaq, TD and Lebron account for 12 titles

Even in the off years where the celtics, pistons, mavs and warriors won they were facing one of the 4 above players in the finals.

Transcendent superstar is clearly the best way to a ring

:lmao that's one great way to spin the truth.

[ambchang]

From 1999 to 2015

Kobe , Shaq, TD and Lebron account for 12 titles

Even in the off years where the celtics, pistons, mavs and warriors won they were facing one of the 4 above players in the finals.

Transcendent superstar is clearly the best way to a ring


This. Look how many things need to break right to win the other way and it's not as sustainable. HOF coach plus transcendant star is the best way to win titles. They need help of course no one wins alone. But if I was building a team I would rather take Davis and let's say Brad Stevens and build around them versus trying to find the magic dust of say the 2004 Pistons ...

Well duh. Of course having a transcendent star helps, a lot, and make things so much easier, but then, are those transcendent stars BECAUSE they had great coaches and a good team around them that allowed them to win titles, or is it the other way around?

If Kobe stayed in Charlotte, he would have won zero titles, would he be considered transcendent or another Vince Carter?

If Shaq stayed in Orlando and never had a Kobe to the three-peat, would he be considered transcendent or a Patrick Ewing?

If Duncan was drafted by the Nuggets or Celtics and never won a ring, would he be considered transcendent or just another David Robinson?

If Lebron never left Cleveland and had zero rings, would he be considered transcendent or Pippen v2.0?

If Kareem never had the two GOAT PGs by him, would he be viewed as a disappointment?

If Hakeem never had Rudy T as his coach and installed that inside out offense to perfection, would he be viewed as the same as Robinson and Ewing?

Would Kemp be known for a lot more than his prolific breeding prowess if he won a title in 96?

Would Magic be viewed the same way as Sidney Moncrief if he went to Phoenix. Would he be labelled a coach killer and diva if the Lakers traded him instead of firing the coach in 82.

Besides, a number of teams won without an amazing superstar. People like to make Isiah Thomas out to be this enormously dominant player, he wasn't. He was good, but I can't really say that he is head and shoulders above Stockton, or even Payton or Kidd, and yet he is considered one of the top 15 players of all time because he had Daly as his coach, and had Dumars, Laimbeer, a checked-in Rodman, Aguirre, Salley, Microwave for a well constructed team that won him a title.

Billups is most definitely not an incredible superstar, Wade was great, but transcendent he was not.

Dirk's stock went up multiple notches after he won the title in 2011, he wasn't even in his absolute prime then, but he had the perfect team around him. He didn't become a better player in 2011, he just was viewed as one.

Pierce wasn't viewed seriously until Garnett and Allen joined him, and now he is widely viewed as one of the best win player in the 00s along with Kobe, and separated from the TMacs and Carters and Iversons.

[Reck]

Kool is batting a 1000.

[Killakobe81]

Well duh. Of course having a transcendent star helps, a lot, and make things so much easier, but then, are those transcendent stars BECAUSE they had great coaches and a good team around them that allowed them to win titles, or is it the other way around?

If Kobe stayed in Charlotte, he would have won zero titles, would he be considered transcendent or another Vince Carter?

If Shaq stayed in Orlando and never had a Kobe to the three-peat, would he be considered transcendent or a Patrick Ewing?

If Duncan was drafted by the Nuggets or Celtics and never won a ring, would he be considered transcendent or just another David Robinson?

If Lebron never left Cleveland and had zero rings, would he be considered transcendent or Pippen v2.0?

If Kareem never had the two GOAT PGs by him, would he be viewed as a disappointment?

If Hakeem never had Rudy T as his coach and installed that inside out offense to perfection, would he be viewed as the same as Robinson and Ewing?

Would Kemp be known for a lot more than his prolific breeding prowess if he won a title in 96?

Would Magic be viewed the same way as Sidney Moncrief if he went to Phoenix. Would he be labelled a coach killer and diva if the Lakers traded him instead of firing the coach in 82.

Besides, a number of teams won without an amazing superstar. People like to make Isiah Thomas out to be this enormously dominant player, he wasn't. He was good, but I can't really say that he is head and shoulders above Stockton, or even Payton or Kidd, and yet he is considered one of the top 15 players of all time because he had Daly as his coach, and had Dumars, Laimbeer, a checked-in Rodman, Aguirre, Salley, Microwave for a well constructed team that won him a title.

Billups is most definitely not an incredible superstar, Wade was great, but transcendent he was not.

Dirk's stock went up multiple notches after he won the title in 2011, he wasn't even in his absolute prime then, but he had the perfect team around him. He didn't become a better player in 2011, he just was viewed as one.

Pierce wasn't viewed seriously until Garnett and Allen joined him, and now he is widely viewed as one of the best win player in the 00s along with Kobe, and separated from the TMacs and Carters and Iversons.

So in short, what you are saying is great players need help to win? Wow. Neat and novel concept ...

Lookit, when you have great players and the guys you mentioned are all varying degrees of great winning rings is what separates the best of the best. You will never get me to think different on that.

Few stars are able to always be on good teams or with great coaches like Timmy with Pop or Brady with Belli. So since you posted all the above ... should Duncan get points subtracted for having always having a great coach and HOF caliber players such as Robinson, Manu, Tony and future HOF'ers Kiwi and LMA on his side when he rung? No he does not. It's part of the story ... but Duncan has led 5 title teams PERIOD

Now before you write another novel I do think Tim led and sometimes carried the 2003 Spurs but it is true that squad had at least two future HOF'ers (Manu/David) even if neither were in their primes.

In the end the ring is what matters. Not points, rebounds advanced metrics winning is the goal. You lead your team to a title you get bonus points from me period. Even #2's like Pippen and Pau get love as well. YOu dont lead a team to a ring you can still be great ... but it's a different tier.

[ambchang]

So in short, what you are saying is great players need help to win? Wow. Neat and novel concept ...

Hey, superstars superstars superstars, winning the title is not a team accomplishment. 5>4. Magic>Bird. You certainly didn't catch that over the last few years.


Lookit, when you have great players and the guys you mentioned are all varying degrees of great winning rings is what separates the best of the best. You will never get me to think different on that.

So wait, if a superstar doesn't have help which is something that is out of his control, he will cease to separate himself as the best of the best? How does that work?


Few stars are able to always be on good teams or with great coaches like Timmy with Pop or Brady with Belli. So since you posted all the above ... should Duncan get points subtracted for having always having a great coach and HOF caliber players such as Robinson, Manu, Tony and future HOF'ers Kiwi and LMA on his side when he rung? No he does not. It's part of the story ... but Duncan has led 5 title teams PERIOD

Not subtract points, but viewed in context. Duncan led the Spurs to 99, 03, 05 and 07, he had a good team around him, but in 99, the Spurs weren't viewed as a great team, neither were the 03 Spurs team, the Spurs won and they became a great team. Duncan didn't improve on his legacy because of 14, or at least shouldn't. He just did what he did over his career, but simpletons can only see that when a player won a title.


Now before you write another novel I do think Tim led and sometimes carried the 2003 Spurs but it is true that squad had at least two future HOF'ers (Manu/David) even if neither were in their primes.

So how do you lose when you have 4 HoFers on a team? How do you barely squeak into the playoffs with historically bad FTA disparity in the final stretch of the season when you have 3 HoFers?


In the end the ring is what matters. Not points, rebounds advanced metrics winning is the goal. You lead your team to a title you get bonus points from me period. Even #2's like Pippen and Pau get love as well. YOu dont lead a team to a ring you can still be great ... but it's a different tier.

No, the ring isn't all that matters, HOW you win the ring matters.

And no, MVPau wasn't the #2, he led his team in most of the advanced stats in both years, something Kobe couldn't do in ANY of the five titles he won.

[Killakobe81]

Hey, superstars superstars superstars, winning the title is not a team accomplishment. 5>4. Magic>Bird. You certainly didn't catch that over the last few years.



So wait, if a superstar doesn't have help which is something that is out of his control, he will cease to separate himself as the best of the best? How does that work?



Not subtract points, but viewed in context. Duncan led the Spurs to 99, 03, 05 and 07, he had a good team around him, but in 99, the Spurs weren't viewed as a great team, neither were the 03 Spurs team, the Spurs won and they became a great team. Duncan didn't improve on his legacy because of 14, or at least shouldn't. He just did what he did over his career, but simpletons can only see that when a player won a title.



So how do you lose when you have 4 HoFers on a team? How do you barely squeak into the playoffs with historically bad FTA disparity in the final stretch of the season when you have 3 HoFers?



No, the ring isn't all that matters, HOW you win the ring matters.

And no, MVPau wasn't the #2, he led his team in most of the advanced stats in both years, something Kobe couldn't do in ANY of the five titles he won.

Typical crap ...

[ambchang]

Typical crap ...

How so? Are you winning the argument now? Or did you just lose it by calling my arguments crap?

[RsxPiimp]

Relax. Just a bruise. Glad to see Randle and Kobe play better and injury to Russell is minor. Its just preseason though

We missed out on Stanley Johnson. That dude is gonna be special.

[Killakobe81]

How so? Are you winning the argument now? Or did you just lose it by calling my arguments crap?

I see I did strike a nerve! I just read the first part. saw it was crap ...did not read the rest. But I have found sometimes when dealing with the women in my life it's better to let them think they have won ...not saying you are definitely a woman or in my life ... but as Cube said "a bitch is a bitch".

You win, Amb.

[ambchang]

I see I did strike a nerve! I just read the first part. saw it was crap ...did not read the rest. But I have found sometimes when dealing with the women in my life it's better to let them think they have won ...not saying you are definitely a woman or in my life ... but as Cube said "a bitch is a bitch".

You win, Amb.

It's not striking a nerve per se, well, maybe, because your arguments are so illogical and self contradictory.

You kept harping on superstars getting credit then immediately contradict yourself about the need of a good team, which Is outside the control of said superstar. I pointed it out and it was me who spewed crap?

[Killakobe81]

It's not striking a nerve per se, well, maybe, because your arguments are so illogical and self contradictory.

You kept harping on superstars getting credit then immediately contradict yourself about the need of a good team, which Is outside the control of said superstar. I pointed it out and it was me who spewed crap?

Superstars get the lion's share of the credit but they also need support how is that mutually exclusive or contradictory? Jeez Amb, it's like dealing with Special Ed only more frustrating because I know you are not dumb you just act like it sometimes.

[ambchang]

Superstars get the lion's share of the credit but they also need support how is that mutually exclusive or contradictory? Jeez Amb, it's like dealing with Special Ed only more frustrating because I know you are not dumb you just act like it sometimes.

It is contradictory and illogical because:
1) You used the titles heavily to rank players, when you have also admitted that the other members are also critical to winning a title. To wit, it was 5>4 prior to 2014, and after Duncan won five, you finally admitted to Duncan > Kobe, despite the fact that Duncan wasn't even the best player on that team (Kawhi was).
2) You treat it as all superstar titles are the same, and they are not. Hakeem's 94 title, Rick Barry's title, and Duncan's 03 titles are impressive because of the caliber of teammates, so is Dirk's. This compared to, say, Lebron's titles, which were loaded teams, those were more impressive, and then there's competitiion. The 80s titles were impressive compared to titles in the 70s, and the titles in the mid/early 00s are impressive, you can't treat a superstar title as a superstar title.
3) Billups doesn't get the lion's share of title, because that was a balanced team, and yes, Kobe shouldn't get the lion's share of the 09 and 10 titles because MVPau was statistically more impressive. If you want to give Kobe the lion's share of credit in 09/10, then fine, Shaq gets the lion's share of credit from 00 to 02, so your 5>4 argument never made sense. In fact, Kobe would be an Isiah Thomas level player at best.

[Killakobe81]

It is contradictory and illogical because:
1) You used the titles heavily to rank players, when you have also admitted that the other members are also critical to winning a title. To wit, it was 5>4 prior to 2014, and after Duncan won five, you finally admitted to Duncan > Kobe, despite the fact that Duncan wasn't even the best player on that team (Kawhi was).
2) You treat it as all superstar titles are the same, and they are not. Hakeem's 94 title, Rick Barry's title, and Duncan's 03 titles are impressive because of the caliber of teammates, so is Dirk's. This compared to, say, Lebron's titles, which were loaded teams, those were more impressive, and then there's competitiion. The 80s titles were impressive compared to titles in the 70s, and the titles in the mid/early 00s are impressive, you can't treat a superstar title as a superstar title.
3) Billups doesn't get the lion's share of title, because that was a balanced team, and yes, Kobe shouldn't get the lion's share of the 09 and 10 titles because MVPau was statistically more impressive. If you want to give Kobe the lion's share of credit in 09/10, then fine, Shaq gets the lion's share of credit from 00 to 02, so your 5>4 argument never made sense. In fact, Kobe would be an Isiah Thomas level player at best.

LoL more Kobe? Told you we will not discuss Achilles ...

[ambchang]

LoL more Kobe? Told you we will not discuss Achilles ...

One of your go to moves.

[Splits]

:lmao D'Bust with a 4/4/4 line tonight with 2 TOs and an MINUS 20

[Raven]

:lmao D'Bust with a 4/4/4 line tonight with 2 TOs and an MINUS 20

in fairness, he should have had 6 or more TOs, they are not counting his no look passes to people that are out of bounds or to people that could never handle that pass in traffic.. just because they actually are touching the ball..

[Splits]

21 minutes
2-6
4 points
4 rebounds
4 assists
-20


Deeeee BbbbbBussssstttttttttttttt

[LkrFan]

Playoff squad is kinda funny. West is just deep as Jim’s fartbox. Be happy winning 35 games at this point.

:lmao

[MI21]

He reminds me of when you start out the MyCareer mode on NBA2K, tbh. Fucking shit.

Hopefully D'Angelo can earn himself some VC to up his skills.

[djohn2oo8]

He reminds me of when you start out the MyCareer mode on NBA2K, tbh. Fucking shit.

Hopefully D'Angelo can earn himself some VC to up his skills.

:lol

[CavsLord]

Mitch got it done.

[Splits]

What The Hell Are The Lakers Doing With D'Angelo Russell? (http://deadspin.com/what-the-hell-are-the-lakers-doing-with-dangelo-russell-1741858496)



With the second pick in the 2015 draft, the Los Angeles Lakers considered selecting Kristaps Porzingis, but ultimately passed because, in the words (http://espn.go.com/blog/losangeles/lakers/post/_/id/42102/byron-scott-explains-why-lakers-passed-on-drafting-kristaps-porzingis)of head coach Byron Scott, “[We] just thought it was going to take him some time [to develop].”

There are two things wrong with that statement, one defensible and one not. Porzingis, who was taken fourth by the Knicks, obviously still has room to grow, but so far he has been an above average NBA player. The Lakers’ analysis of him was wrong, and Scott admitted as much. But much more puzzling, the Lakers’ thought process regarding Porzingis indicates that they believed they would be a playoff contender this season. That’s the only reason Porzingis needing time to develop would be a downside, after all.

Anybody with a modicum of basketball knowledge could see that the Lakers were going to struggle this season. As one good example, ESPN’s Summer Forecast—which aggregated the predictions of over 200 NBA writers—predicted (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13431835/2015-summer-forecast-west-standings) the Lakers would finish 26-56, 14th in the West. So far that prediction has been borne out, as going into tonight’s game the Lakers were just 1-5, with the solitary win against the Brooklyn Nets, one of two teams without a win this season.

In other words, what in god’s name was the Lakers front office looking at that indicated they were so close to competing that they couldn’t draft a talented project big man they liked?

With their second pick, the Lakers chose D’Angelo Russell, a perfectly fine choice. Except D’Angelo Russell, drafted in part because he was supposedly ready to play, has struggled. Byron Scott has warned him (http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/lakersnow/la-sp-ln-scott-to-russell-play-better-or-get-less-playing-time-20151106-story.html) that he needs to improve if he doesn’t want to see a decrease in playing time, and has benched Russell (http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles-lakers/post/_/id/42056/lakers-bench-dangelo-russell-in-fourth-quarter-play-veteran-lou-williams-instead) in favor of Lou Williams in the fourth quarter of close games.
Which brings us to tonight’s game, which saw the Lakers get whooped by the Heat, 101-88. On the road, without Kobe, the Heat lead was as big as 18 in the fourth quarter, yet the number two overall draft pick never even saw the floor. After he left the game with 4:52 remaining in the third quarter, Russell never returned.

Russell wasn’t particularly good in the 21 minutes that he did play, and after the game acknowledged that he needs to be better. He also said that Scott gave him no explanation for why he didn’t play the final 17 minutes.

664287821654437888

Scott did explain why to reporters, but it didn’t make any more sense.

664282350847729664

Miami had too big of a lead? So if Russell can’t play in the fourth quarter of close games, and he can’t play in the fourth quarter of blowouts, when can he play in the fourth quarter?

This debacle isn’t only, or maybe even mostly, Byron Scott’s fault. He isn’t the one who signed an old and mediocre-at-best Kobe Bryant (http://deadspin.com/kobe-bryant-signs-two-year-extension-will-be-nbas-high-1471182481)with a torn Achilles tendon to a two-year, $48.5 million contract two seasons ago. He isn’t the one who made a terrible pitch (http://deadspin.com/lakers-baffled-that-free-agents-dont-like-their-bad-bas-1715364369)to free agents during the offseason. He isn’t the one who decided to draft the supposed win-now player over the supposed project. His job isn’t to set the strategy the franchise will follow, but to implement it.

With that qualming out of the way, Byron’s tactics here are absolutely baffling. The Lakers are garbage and Russell, along with their other young talents like Julius Randle and Jordan Clarkson, should get as many minutes as possible. He should absolutely be playing in the fourth quarter of blowouts, and also the fourth quarter of close games. That is the quickest way for him to improve.

The Lakers will have somewhere in the neighborhood of $60 million in salary cap room next season, and the operating assumption is that because of the Lakers’ allure and Los Angeles’s Los Angelesness, they’ll reel in a couple of top free agents. But because of the booming salary cap they’ll face stiff competition from nearly every other team, and with money the same either way, most of those free agents will be choosing based on perceived competitiveness.

If the Scott continues to make Russell ride the pine and stunt his development in pursuit of a 30-win season rather than a 27-win one, the negative effects could reverberate for years to come.