Russian buildup in Syria

[m>s]

Putin has decided he has gotten everything he wanted in Ukraine and is now going balls deep into Syria.

The thing to remember about the Syrian civil war is that is was instigated by the US. It was the US which funded and supported the Syrian rebels and ISIS because they want to remove Assad from power.

Assad is a long term ally of Russia so this is unacceptable to Putin.

Russia will not be giving Syria aircraft or taking aircraft to Syria. Aircraft is a weakness in the Russian military, they know they cannot hope to match NATO air superiority so they don't even try. Instead it spent all of its money on defending itself from those.

The Russian S-400 is the most sophisticated anti-aircraft weapon in the world.
It is relatively cheap, easy to use, can be transported quickly and disguised, it is capable of locating and destroying stealth bombers and drones. It may or may not be capable of destroying high altitude stealth spy planes.

The immediate benefit of Russia entering the war is that NATO will no longer be able to attack Assad by airstrike.

Assad already has plenty of ground troops, Russia will proved the artillery and heavy armor he has been lacking.

Worse case scenario NATO breaks off their attacks on Syria completely, best case scenario they have to collaborate with Russian and Syrian forces.

This is actually a brilliant move by Putin. Europe will now be looking at Putin to help solve their refugee crisis and the ISIS crisis. Expect the 'sanctions' against Russia to end in the near future with Crimea still in the possession of Russia.

[ChumpDumper]

Where did you copy this from?

[boutons_deux]

Russia 'plans forward air operating base' in Syria - US


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34252810

[boutons_deux]

Lots to items around about Russia supporting Assad.

[boutons_deux]

Russia's Lavrov says Moscow to continue military support of Syria


http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/13/us-russia-syria-lavrov-idUSKCN0RD0DV20150913?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews

[m>s]

A little more insight into why it all got started.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar-Turkey_pipeline

The Qatar-Turkey pipeline is a proposed natural gas (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas) pipeline (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipeline_transport) running from the Iranian-Qatari South Pars / North Dome Gas-Condensate field (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pars_/_North_Dome_Gas-Condensate_field) field towards Turkey, where it could connect with the Nabucco pipeline (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabucco_pipeline) to supply European customers as well as Turkey. One route to Turkey is via Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Syria,[1] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar-Turkey_pipeline#cite_note-Ahmed-1)[2] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar-Turkey_pipeline#cite_note-2) and another is through Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iraq.[3] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar-Turkey_pipeline#cite_note-3)[4] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar-Turkey_pipeline#cite_note-4) Syria's rationale for rejecting the Qatar proposal was said to be "to protect the interests of [its] Russian ally, which is Europe's top supplier of natural gas."[1] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar-Turkey_pipeline#cite_note-Ahmed-1)

[hater]

Hope red army goes 1945 on them terrorists. Our last hope

[hater]

I find it funny that most American civilians will be rooting for Russia to defeat American trained and armed terrorists

[m>s]

Hope red army goes 1945 on them terrorists. Our last hope
Russian armor and artillery will give Assad the offensive punch needed to break the stalemate. Tanks with infantry support will allow them to outmaneuver and siege Isis strongholds while artillery mops things up. I'm thinking 2 years left in this conflict before Syria is 100% back under government control.

[hater]

I wish. But doubtful. Russia had major troubles in Afghanistan and they will in Syria. Not to mention US and Saudi will be funding and arming the terrorists as they did in Afghanistan.

But I do hope at least Russia helps stabilize regions of Syria.

[Wild Cobra]

Putin has decided he has gotten everything he wanted in Ukraine and is now going balls deep into Syria.

The thing to remember about the Syrian civil war is that is was instigated by the US. It was the US which funded and supported the Syrian rebels and ISIS because they want to remove Assad from power.

Assad is a long term ally of Russia so this is unacceptable to Putin.

Russia will not be giving Syria aircraft or taking aircraft to Syria. Aircraft is a weakness in the Russian military, they know they cannot hope to match NATO air superiority so they don't even try. Instead it spent all of its money on defending itself from those.

The Russian S-400 is the most sophisticated anti-aircraft weapon in the world.
It is relatively cheap, easy to use, can be transported quickly and disguised, it is capable of locating and destroying stealth bombers and drones. It may or may not be capable of destroying high altitude stealth spy planes.

The immediate benefit of Russia entering the war is that NATO will no longer be able to attack Assad by airstrike.

Assad already has plenty of ground troops, Russia will proved the artillery and heavy armor he has been lacking.

Worse case scenario NATO breaks off their attacks on Syria completely, best case scenario they have to collaborate with Russian and Syrian forces.

This is actually a brilliant move by Putin. Europe will now be looking at Putin to help solve their refugee crisis and the ISIS crisis. Expect the 'sanctions' against Russia to end in the near future with Crimea still in the possession of Russia.

Maybe Russia can do what Obama doesn't have the balls to do?

[Wild Cobra]

I find it funny that most American civilians will be rooting for Russia to defeat American trained and armed terrorists

Sad, isn't it...

[Wild Cobra]

I wish. But doubtful. Russia had major troubles in Afghanistan and they will in Syria. Not to mention US and Saudi will be funding and arming the terrorists as they did in Afghanistan.

But I do hope at least Russia helps stabilize regions of Syria.

Different terrain.

The terrain in Afghanistan is the biggest problem for anything but horses, on hoot, etc.

[Splits]

A little more insight into why it all got started.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar-Turkey_pipeline

The Qatar-Turkey pipeline is a proposed natural gas (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas) pipeline (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipeline_transport) running from the Iranian-Qatari South Pars / North Dome Gas-Condensate field (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pars_/_North_Dome_Gas-Condensate_field) field towards Turkey, where it could connect with the Nabucco pipeline (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabucco_pipeline) to supply European customers as well as Turkey. One route to Turkey is via Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Syria,[1] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar-Turkey_pipeline#cite_note-Ahmed-1)[2] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar-Turkey_pipeline#cite_note-2) and another is through Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iraq.[3] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar-Turkey_pipeline#cite_note-3)[4] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar-Turkey_pipeline#cite_note-4) Syria's rationale for rejecting the Qatar proposal was said to be "to protect the interests of [its] Russian ally, which is Europe's top supplier of natural gas."[1] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar-Turkey_pipeline#cite_note-Ahmed-1)

Massive, historic drought also contributed to starting the civil war: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-change-hastened-the-syrian-war/


Drying and drought in Syria from 2006 to 2011—the worst on record there—destroyed agriculture, causing many farm families to migrate to cities. The influx added to social stresses already created by refugees pouring in from the war in Iraq, explains Richard Seager, a climate scientist at Columbia University’s Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory who co-authored the study. The drought also pushed up food prices, aggravating poverty. “We’re not saying the drought caused the war,” Seager said. “We’re saying that added to all the other stressors, it helped kick things over the threshold into open conflict. And a drought of that severity was made much more likely by the ongoing human-driven drying of that region.”

I do hope Russia's intervention helps put Assad over the top. The US and the West are on the wrong side of history, Russians are trying to restore order.

[m>s]

I wish. But doubtful. Russia had major troubles in Afghanistan and they will in Syria. Not to mention US and Saudi will be funding and arming the terrorists as they did in Afghanistan.

But I do hope at least Russia helps stabilize regions of Syria.

isis is an actual state controlling towns and cities, it's different from mountain guerrilla warfare. This one is definitely winnable. Isis is lucky Assad has been short on armor and transport vehicles. Mobility is what allowed Germany to dominate France in 39. Blitzkrieg. A bunch of foot soldiers with no support won't be able to hang. Isis supply lines will be cut like a hot knife through butter.

[m>s]

Dont forget that isis is pretty much an occupying force and is hated by the locals, they'll turn on them as soon as they get the chance.

[RandomGuy]

Russian armor and artillery will give Assad the offensive punch needed to break the stalemate. Tanks with infantry support will allow them to outmaneuver and siege Isis strongholds while artillery mops things up. I'm thinking 2 years left in this conflict before Syria is 100% back under government control.

ROFL....

Military geenyus solves it.

You missed a few things in your over-simplification. It won't be quite that easy, but I will leave it to you to figure out the deets, if you can.

I will give you a hint about one potential foil to that tidy scenario:

Beans.

[RandomGuy]

As for Russia wading in... let them.

[RandomGuy]

Dont forget that isis is pretty much an occupying force and is hated by the locals, they'll turn on them as soon as they get the chance.

Correct, mostly.

[RandomGuy]

Maybe Russia can do what Obama doesn't have the balls to do?

Meh. Like we need to wade back into the swamp?

No thanks. Let them sort it out. We don't need the oil, and benefit if it all goes up in flames. Time has come to let them stand or fall on their own.

I have little doubt that if Obama did that, you would criticize that too.

[m>s]

ROFL....

Military geenyus solves it.

You missed a few things in your over-simplification. It won't be quite that easy, but I will leave it to you to figure out the deets, if you can.

I will give you a hint about one potential foil to that tidy scenario:

Beans.
Of course it's a basic oversimplification. Did you expect me to write a novel detailing all of the fictional battles that haven't happened yet?

tanks with infantry support beat infantry every time. When they properly guard the flanks and protect the rear that thing becomes a damn near impenetrable battering ram. Those guns are a game changer and the cannon can reach out a couple miles and pulverize buildings.

[boutons_deux]

US and Saudi Arabia have wanted "regime change" in Syria, because it worked so well in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[boutons_deux]

For Those Who Remain in Syria, Daily Life Is a Nightmare


http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/09/16/world/16damascus-1/16damascus-1-master675.jpg


Every morning, at the dawn call to prayer, women and children move silently from the Damascus suburb of Douma to the surrounding farm fields, seeking safety from the day’s bombardments by the Syrian government.

The walk is part of a surreal routine described by the fraction of Douma’s residents who remain: shopping on half-demolished streets, scavenging wild greens, carrying out mass burials. But not even the fields are safe; recently, medics said, bombs killed two families there — 10 people, including seven children.

As crowds of Syrians transfix the world with their flight to Europe, this kind of life is one of the many nightmares they are fleeing. They leave behind increasingly empty neighborhoods — from the Damascus suburbs to the northern city of Aleppo — that testify to the scale of their exodus.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/16/world/middleeast/for-those-who-remain-in-syria-daily-life-is-a-nightmare.html?_r=1&ncid=newsltushpmg00000003

Thanks, Repugs!

[hater]

Disagree that ISIS is an occupying force. Don't forget majority of Syria is Sunni so they are pretty popular since they hate Assad. Young people also like them since it gives them opportunities they could never have without them.

Ppl are underestimating the foothold of ISIS on the general Sunni populaces.

ISIS forces will be hiding behind these civilians and it will be tough if not impossible to completely defeat them.

Still at least Russia has the balls to put their boots on the ground and take the side of the good guys vs these barbarian terrorists. Wish other western nations would fucking wake up.

[boutons_deux]

West 'ignored Russian offer in 2012 to have Syria's Assad step aside'


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/15/west-ignored-russian-offer-in-2012-to-have-syrias-assad-step-aside

[hater]

Obama and the rest of the neocons were convinced they could bomb the hell out of Damascus. Like they did Tripoli just weeks before. They were already coloring their Mission Accomplished poster.

But Putin and Russia had other plans. They basically unmasked the US plans and bullshit about chemical weapons. And called Kerrys bluff. Then the US civilians gave Obama and US politicians an ultimatum. You attack Syria and its your ass.

The politicians folded. That's how the Syria plan went for them neocons.

[hater]

I called it years ago in this same forum Lavrov and Putin will run circles around Obama and Kerry. :lmao

[Infinite_limit]

Russia to the rescue!

[RandomGuy]

Of course it's a basic oversimplification. Did you expect me to write a novel detailing all of the fictional battles that haven't happened yet?

tanks with infantry support beat infantry every time. When they properly guard the flanks and protect the rear that thing becomes a damn near impenetrable battering ram. Those guns are a game changer and the cannon can reach out a couple miles and pulverize buildings.


"Amateurs talk about tactics, but professionals study logistics."

I see you missed my hint.

All well and good, sure.

The Russian military has about zero operational experience with formal brigade level deployments remote from their borders.

Tanks, as powerful as they are, tend to be crewed by squishy things that need food, and tend to run out of fuel eventually. Those guns with a range of 2 miles can be silenced by simply detonating a well placed IED on the supply route, as the US army found out to the tune of a few thousand dead. The base they are establishing is over a hundred miles (closer to 200) from where any real fighting with ISIS might take place.

I would guess the brigade they are deploying will be, as you noted, pretty effective at first, especially coupled with airstrikes of any sort, but ISIS is not a rag bag bunch of militia that turn tail and run at the first sign of opposition.

That all assumes, though, that the deployment will be offensive, which is somewhat tentative.

Most analysis seems to indicate that this will be a forward airbase, so the Russians may simply be digging in and protecting an airfield, along with their own interests.

I guess we will get to see what happens.

[RandomGuy]

Obama and the rest of the neocons were convinced they could bomb the hell out of Damascus. Like they did Tripoli just weeks before. They were already coloring their Mission Accomplished poster.

But Putin and Russia had other plans. They basically unmasked the US plans and bullshit about chemical weapons. And called Kerrys bluff. Then the US civilians gave Obama and US politicians an ultimatum. You attack Syria and its your ass.

The politicians folded. That's how the Syria plan went for them neocons.

That was almost a coherent thought. Almost.

[TheSanityAnnex]

I see you missed my hint.

All well and good, sure.

The Russian military has about zero operational experience with formal brigade level deployments remote from their borders.

Tanks, as powerful as they are, tend to be crewed by squishy things that need food, and tend to run out of fuel eventually. Those guns with a range of 2 miles can be silenced by simply detonating a well placed IED on the supply route, as the US army found out to the tune of a few thousand dead. The base they are establishing is over a hundred miles (closer to 200) from where any real fighting with ISIS might take place.

I would guess the brigade they are deploying will be, as you noted, pretty effective at first, especially coupled with airstrikes of any sort, but ISIS is not a rag bag bunch of militia that turn tail and run at the first sign of opposition.

That all assumes, though, that the deployment will be offensive, which is somewhat tentative.

Most analysis seems to indicate that this will be a forward airbase, so the Russians may simply be digging in and protecting an airfield, along with their own interests.

I guess we will get to see what happens.

Kind of scary to think this will be a formal training of the sort.

[RandomGuy]

Kind of scary to think this will be a formal training of the sort.

Meh, if the Rooskies want to wade into the swamp of ME sectarian violence... they are dumber than hater thinks they are.

I would bet a small amount of money that they will simply defend the airbase, unless we see a lot more armored vehicles deployed.

[m>s]

I'm thinking jets and attack helicopters will be deployed next

[Shastafarian]

I do hope Russia's intervention helps put Assad over the top. The US and the West are on the wrong side of history, Russians are trying to restore order.

So murdering thousands of innocent women and children is cool if you're Syria but BAD BAD BAD if you're Israel. I'll try to keep it straight...Syria is good, Israel BAD BAD BAD.

[m>s]

So murdering thousands of innocent women and children is cool if you're Syria but BAD BAD BAD if you're Israel. I'll try to keep it straight...Syria is good, Israel BAD BAD BAD.
Did you get those ideas from cnn back in 2011 or what? Sounds ridiculous

[Infinite_limit]

Whatever it takes to stop this migration. Russia to the rescue indeed.

[Splits]

So murdering thousands of innocent women and children is cool if you're Syria but BAD BAD BAD if you're Israel. I'll try to keep it straight...Syria is good, Israel BAD BAD BAD.

Obviously Assad is a bad actor, but who else do you want in power? The "moderate rebels" that don't exist? ISIS? Al Nusra? There are no good options, he's the least bad. Also not really sure of the proof of intentional civilian murder by the Assad regime. There are so many different factions fighting, it is muddy and I don't trust western media and government propaganda claims. Israel on the other hand has a policy of intentional civilian murder. Just go read the testimonials of their own soldiers: http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/

[SnakeBoy]

Whatever it takes to stop this migration. Russia to the rescue indeed.

What makes you think Russia wants to stop the migration?

[SnakeBoy]

How does stopping the migration help Russia?

[hater]

That was almost a coherent thought. Almost.

Is it more coherent than saying most of the refugees are Shiite? :lmao :lmao :lmao

[Shastafarian]

Obviously Assad is a bad actor, but who else do you want in power?Doesn't matter. He can kill as many civilians as he wants because it's hard to find someone who won't. I understand that now.

The "moderate rebels" that don't exist?They do exist, just in smaller than hoped for numbers

ISIS?Both indiscriminately kill civilians so in reality I don't see much difference. Except Assad has a working air force.

There are no good options, he's the least bad. What does that have to do with your indignation that Israeli leadership is full of war criminals who deserve, at the very least, to be ousted from power and put on trial? Why don't you share that indignation when it comes to Muslims killing Muslims?

Also not really sure of the proof of intentional civilian murder by the Assad regime. There are so many different factions fighting, it is muddy and I don't trust western media and government propaganda claims.:lol That's rich. Look up Barrel Bombs and read into the countless reports from neutral organizations about atrocious war crimes committed by the Syrian Army. Or are you going to claim Assad didn't know about what his own army and air force were doing?

Israel on the other hand has a policy of intentional civilian murder. Just go read the testimonials of their own soldiers: http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/That story is pretty horrifying. Yet it pales in comparison to what Assad is doing to his own people.

Syria good, Israel BAD. See I'm already catching on!

[m>s]

Barrel bombs are an improvisation and are not very accurate, the civilian deaths are accidental. If westrn backed terrorists weren't invading the country there would be no need for any bombs.

[hater]

Egyptian government just massacred scores of unarmed morsi supporters. Look it up. But because they are on the side of the US, those are not crimes :cry

That's the double standard everyone must acknowledge. Assad just like Egypt army is stabilizing the country

[hater]

Hell. Look at Yemen and what the Saudi army is doing to civilians. :cry but they are our allies so its ok :cry

[Splits]

Doesn't matter. He can kill as many civilians as he wants because it's hard to find someone who won't. I understand that now.
They do exist, just in smaller than hoped for numbers
Both indiscriminately kill civilians so in reality I don't see much difference. Except Assad has a working air force.
What does that have to do with your indignation that Israeli leadership is full of war criminals who deserve, at the very least, to be ousted from power and put on trial? Why don't you share that indignation when it comes to Muslims killing Muslims?
:lol That's rich. Look up Barrel Bombs and read into the countless reports from neutral organizations about atrocious war crimes committed by the Syrian Army. Or are you going to claim Assad didn't know about what his own army and air force were doing?
That story is pretty horrifying. Yet it pales in comparison to what Assad is doing to his own people.

Syria good, Israel BAD. See I'm already catching on!

First of all, "that story is pretty horrifying" tells me you don't know about Breaking the Silence. There are hundreds of testimonials from Israeli soldiers on how they committed or were directed to commit war crimes. It's not "a story", it is a series of testimonials that demonstrate the state of Israel directs their army to violate international law and murder innocents.

Secondly, focusing on the government acts which are committed in our own name as opposed to those committed by others is completely bankrupt. As Chomsky famously expressed:


“My own concern is primarily the terror and violence carried out by my own state, for two reasons. For one thing, because it happens to be the larger component of international violence.

“But also for a much more important reason than that; namely, I can do something about it. So even if the U.S. was responsible for 2 percent of the violence in the world instead of the majority of it, it would be that 2 percent I would be primarily responsible for. And that is a simple ethical judgment. That is, the ethical value of one’s actions depends on their anticipated and predictable consequences. It is very easy to denounce the atrocities of someone else. That has about as much ethical value as denouncing atrocities that took place in the 18th century.”

The Saudi slaughter of Yemeni civilians and the refusal to take responsibility for those deaths despite the US/West supplying of the very weapons that are killing innocents is just the latest example: https://theintercept.com/2015/09/15/great-bbc-interview-british-loyalist-saudi-regime-shows-journalists-first-duty/


There are lots of reasons why people prefer to focus on the bad acts of the Enemy Tribe rather than one’s own. A big factor is strategic: When the focus of Americans is on the bad acts of Putin or North Korea or Iran or whatever Villain of the Moment is being featured or on the injustice of those places, their focus is not on the things they can actually do something about: the bad acts of their own government and the injustices in their own society. Constantly directing people’s attention to bad things being done by other tribes is simultaneously distracting and distorting: It creates the impression that Bad Things (imprisoning journalists) are only done by Them, not by Us.

But at least as big a factor is a psychological one: Humans intrinsically feel better when we are condemning others rather than ourselves. That’s why bitter, judgmental gossip has long been a favorite pastime: It’s self-soothing to sit in critical judgment of others. There’s a reason the Gospels have to remind human beings (http://biblehub.com/matthew/7-5.htm) to “first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye”: It’s precisely because the universal temptation is to ignore our own flaws since that’s so much more self-flattering and pleasing.

None of these are absolute rules; some caveats are needed. There’s a benefit from knowing about the acts of adversary governments. We want reporting on those countries as well, and journalists assigned to those countries do their job by highlighting the conduct of those governments. Nor should the bad acts of adversary governments be expressly denied or actively minimized, as that becomes its own form of deceit and propaganda. And then there are times when the bad conduct of other governments produces such great human suffering that collective action becomes both possible and justified, in which case focusing on it can be justified.

...

It’s not only “easy” to “denounce the atrocities of someone else.” It’s also profitable: strategically, propagandistically, psychologically and emotionally. That’s why it’s such a popular thing to do. It’s been true for decades in the U.S. and still is: Write or talk about the invasions, bombings, tyrant-support and torture by your own government and you’ll immediately face demands from nationalists that you focus instead on Russia, upon pain of being accused of being a secret Kremlin agent if you don’t. That is what also explains the obsession among some Westerners to depict Islam (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_ubamwlPI8), rather than their own governments, as the Prime Force of Violence and Aggression. It’s also what drives the tactic of minimizing your own country’s sins by pointing to someone who is doing worse.

It’s just pure tribalism in its most classic and primitive form: It’s the Other Side that is always the Bad One. Journalistically, that behavior is as cowardly as it is inconsequential: Americans and other Westerners have been inundated for decades with demonizing language about U.S. adversaries from Russia to China to Iran to Muslim extremists. There’s very little valuable, and nothing particularly courageous or interesting, about sitting in the U.S. echoing those self-serving, self-pleasing and already widely accepted narratives. What Americans have lacked, woefully, is a journalistic focus on the bad acts done by their own government, a direct challenge to the propagandistic banalities they’ve been fed to glorify their own side.

[pgardn]

Egyptian government just massacred scores of unarmed morsi supporters. Look it up. But because they are on the side of the US, those are not crimes :cry

That's the double standard everyone must acknowledge. Assad just like Egypt army is stabilizing the country

This is largely true. We have now seen that a stabilizing repressive regime is sometimes preferable to chaos. The rules are clear.

But your take on Russia is hilarious. They are driving into the shitter. Their standard of living is going down and people are asking where there sons are getting killed. They talk big and live like shit. They won't save anything. And if they do, they will pay the price. Putin is trying to become economically relevant again. He is not getting invited to any trade meetings so he has to try something.

The nation with huge resources just squandering everything. Can't even grow enough food to feed themselves. It's a pitifully run country. Probably the most wasteful on the planet for what they have. But they got tanks! And a leader who takes his shirt off.

[hater]

Nobody is denying Russia is going through tough times but its not really their doing. The West is punishing them for standing against the status quo. The status quo was to arm and train terrorists, they don't want that. Putin has said he will never ever negotiate with terrorists.

Still this is a people that overcame a nazi invasion in the middle of the Siberian winter while the "allies" were having their hands full vs teenage nazis on the western front. And the Russians persevered and the Russians won. Lets no mistake about it Russia is the ONLY country in the world that was able to drive the nazis off their territory on their own. No help.

You underestimate the level of crisis the Russians can take. They could easily take about 40 million civilian losses and still win.

Meanwhile US would probably throw in the towel if their civilians are deprived of their next iPhone :lmao

[m>s]

Dude I agree they are a tough people and deserve respect but they didn't do it with no help. Opening another front is help, giving them an insane amount of supplies and materials was help, also we baited Japan into a fight so they wouldn't have to worry about an attack from the east and could focus on one front. 1 on 1 the soviets get stomped and greater Germania is born. The population of Germany would be over 500 million and the technological advances today would be incredible. Germany isn't the only one who lost that war, we all did especially whites.

[hater]

Never fight a land war in Asia. The nazis learned the hard way. Biggest mistake of hitlers life was invading Russia.

They should have been content with taking all of Europe and making a deal with the ruskies.

[hater]

Remember. Germany needs to thank their lucky stars the allies arrived in Berlin on time. A few weeks late and Russia would have erased Germany and its people from the history books.

No wonder German girls welcomed allies with their legs open

[m>s]

Never fight a land war in Asia. The nazis learned the hard way. Biggest mistake of hitlers life was invading Russia.

They should have been content with taking all of Europe and making a deal with the ruskies.
That's not what happened, they did make a deal with Russia. Overwhelming evidence showed that Stalin was building up and preparing to sweep across Europe once the European powers had weakened one another. Hitler decided to act while he had the element of surprise on his side, it was a desperate Hail Mary attempt to stop it.

[hater]

Don't matter what happened beforehand. Fact is Germany invaded Russia and got their asses kicked back to Berlin. The allies saved the Germanic peoples from total anihilation.no wonder they suck American dick even today

[m>s]

That's fucking retarded considering it was the 4 world powers plus minor allies who defeated Germany and those same "saviors" were also the reason we lost. They wanted us destroyed and at the same time didn't want Russia to get stronger.

[hater]

:lol wrong. The real war was being fought in the eastern front.

Germany was sending children to fight in the West :lol

[hater]

Biggest battle in the east: Stalingrad 2 million dead

Biggest battle in the west: France 180,000 dead

:lmao the west was a joke

[m>s]

Right but it was still another front to guard nonetheless. Russia wouldn't have even had the supplies or capability to fight if not for the allies. Coming from someone who doesn't hate Russians or consider them untermenschen.

[hater]

:cry not fair. They bullied us :cry

Come on now. Germany started it. Hell, Hitler rather shot himself in the face than face red army and Stalin. The faggot pulled a punk ass move

[m>s]

All I can say is You need to read some books, Stalin was planning to attack Europe, Barbarossa was preemptive.

[hater]

Doesn't matter. Still got his ass kicked all the way to Berlin.

[DMX7]

Biggest battle in the east: Stalingrad 2 million dead

Biggest battle in the west: France 180,000 dead

:lmao the west was a joke

Towards the end, they put all their eggs in one basket in the Battle of the Bulge.

[Infinite_limit]

Biggest battle in the east: Stalingrad 2 million dead

Biggest battle in the west: France 180,000 dead

:lmao the west was a joke
Forgot to mention the Nazis on the Western Front [after invading USSR] were predominately Hitler Youth and WW1 veterans. And they still gave it to sissified west

[pgardn]

Nobody is denying Russia is going through tough times but its not really their doing. The West is punishing them for standing against the status quo. The status quo was to arm and train terrorists, they don't want that. Putin has said he will never ever negotiate with terrorists.

Still this is a people that overcame a nazi invasion in the middle of the Siberian winter while the "allies" were having their hands full vs teenage nazis on the western front. And the Russians persevered and the Russians won. Lets no mistake about it Russia is the ONLY country in the world that was able to drive the nazis off their territory on their own. No help.

You underestimate the level of crisis the Russians can take. They could easily take about 40 million civilian losses and still win.

Meanwhile US would probably throw in the towel if their civilians are deprived of their next iPhone :lmao

Their tough times are brought about by their totally corrupt system an inability to innovate.


And quit the WW II excuses. Germany and Japan turn that argument on its head.
Its totally silly. If you can't see it's the way their power structure runs things I can't help you.
They had massive numbers of people of course they could beat the Nazis. They threw them at the Nazis like fodder. Stalin killed more Russians all by himself.

[pgardn]

Forgot to mention the Nazis on the Western Front [after invading USSR] were predominately Hitler Youth and WW1 veterans. And they still gave it to sissified west

If there was no western front to begin with Russia would have been crapped on. If the Americans did not enter Russia would have had two fronts and many speaking Japanese.

[hater]

If there was no western front to begin with Russia would have been crapped on. If the Americans did not enter Russia would have had two fronts and many speaking Japanese.

Russia was going to win regardless. read some history books. sure it would have taken longer and few million more deaths but they woulda won. The tide was already turning when the allies arrived.

[hater]

Their tough times are brought about by their totally corrupt system an inability to innovate.


And quit the WW II excuses. Germany and Japan turn that argument on its head.
Its totally silly. If you can't see it's the way their power structure runs things I can't help you.
They had massive numbers of people of course they could beat the Nazis. They threw them at the Nazis like fodder. Stalin killed more Russians all by himself.

US is as corrupt or more. (see Real Estate market crash and bank bailouts. see MIC stronghold on the goverment. see military controlling and monitoring the data of every civilian.)

what excuse? I just stated that Russia has seen way worse times that this and came through. this is a walk in the park.

[m>s]

Russia was going to win regardless. read some history books. sure it would have taken longer and few million more deaths but they woulda won. The tide was already turning when the allies arrived.
Yeah it was turning because of an insane amount of supplies and logistics support. All of their trucks were American.

[pgardn]

US is as corrupt or more. (see Real Estate market crash and bank bailouts. see MIC stronghold on the goverment. see military controlling and monitoring the data of every civilian.)

what excuse? I just stated that Russia has seen way worse times that this and came through. this is a walk in the park.

More corrupt?

No way no how.
You don't know have any idea what corruption is. It's not even close. Your statement is laughable. Please explain why a country with the greatest natural resources on the face of the Earth can't feed themselves, let's make it simple.

[pgardn]

Russia was going to win regardless. read some history books. sure it would have taken longer and few million more deaths but they woulda won. The tide was already turning when the allies arrived.

Arrived? Which way did the Germans go to start the war? What was Russia doing besides making pacts with Hitler during this time?

You are telling me to read history when stating the above?

[hater]

Not gona answer infantile questions. Read up and those simple questions will be answered

[hater]

:lmao now saying trucks won the war :lmao

Try 30 million Russians souls

[pgardn]

Not gona answer infantile questions. Read up and those simple questions will be answered

Of course not.
You are stuck.

How did the Germans lose the vast majority of their air Force? What was the Luftwaffe doing during the Russian invasion besides next to nothing?

[pgardn]

More corrupt?

No way no how.
You don't know have any idea what corruption is. It's not even close. Your statement is laughable. Please explain why a country with the greatest natural resources on the face of the Earth can't feed themselves, let's make it simple.

and...?

[hater]

:lmao American made trucks won the war :lmao

[m>s]

:lmao now saying trucks won the war :lmao

Try 30 million Russians souls
Why should I continue trying to have an honest discussion with you wherever you just want to shitpost and put your ignorance of military on display? Logistics are the most important aspect of war.

[hater]

"the line between disorder and order is logistics"

Sure its essential but its not the most important part of war.

Don't matter cause German logistics in the Western front were 10x bigger and more complicated than in the Eastern front. There is a reason why they spent 10x the effort in the West. Mother Russia.

[hater]

Of course not.
You are stuck.

How did the Germans lose the vast majority of their air Force? What was the Luftwaffe doing during the Russian invasion besides next to nothing?

:rolleyes I'll humour you this time young padawan

nobody is denying Russia's air force was pretty poor at the time. Compared to Germany, Britain or even US.

the Luftwaffe failed to conquer Moscow in that first year (1941) they destroyed I believe 90% of Russian air forces. But they still failed to get Moscow. That is probably the biggest failure the Luftwaffe made in the entire war.

Had Luftwaffe gotten Moscow that first year, they would have possibly defeated Russia and would fight a fair war in the west.

The Russians with help from Father Winter (German planes had lots of trouble in the winter) were able to move their airplane manufacturing to the far corners of Siberia and continued a steady stream of airplanes. sure mosts would get shot down by the superior German air forces but they would stretch their forces thin and the Russian planes kept coming.

let's just say even with their superior pilots and planes the Luftwaffe had their hands full.

Nobody is denying the western frontt helped. But Russsia was going to get to Berlin regardless.

[Pelicans78]

Don't get why the far right are pissed at Putin going into Syria. They act like he's an occupying force when instead he's helping a long traditional ally. If anything, the Russian people would be the ones upset at this.

[Pelicans78]

Whatever it takes to stop this migration. Russia to the rescue indeed.

I don't think that's Russia's agenda. I'm sure they care less about Europeans being upset by refugees.

I'm thinking they're trying to save Syria's gov't to protect the Syrian/Iran/Russia axis in that region. ISIS is a direct threat to Iran who's a very important ally.

[hater]

American media forgets Russia had military bases in Syria long before the war. Can u imagine if a civil war started in a country where US had a military base???

[m>s]

American media forgets Russia had military bases in Syria long before the war. Can u imagine if a civil war started in a country where US had a military base???
Were about to find out, in Germany

[Pelicans78]

American media forgets Russia had military bases in Syria long before the war. Can u imagine if a civil war started in a country where US had a military base???

Yeah, its funny how retarded the questions are when the Repub candidates are asked how they would stop Putin in Syria. It's a fucking stupid question.

[pgardn]

Yeah, its funny how retarded the questions are when the Repub candidates are asked how they would stop Putin in Syria. It's a fucking stupid question.

Let em go in and get pecked apart.
Afghanistan is still a fresh wound.

Its a costly attention getting move by a country that is failing in so many other areas.
Russia is a story of vast potential never realized.

[pgardn]

:rolleyes I'll humour you this time young padawan

nobody is denying Russia's air force was pretty poor at the time. Compared to Germany, Britain or even US.

the Luftwaffe failed to conquer Moscow in that first year (1941) they destroyed I believe 90% of Russian air forces. But they still failed to get Moscow. That is probably the biggest failure the Luftwaffe made in the entire war.

Had Luftwaffe gotten Moscow that first year, they would have possibly defeated Russia and would fight a fair war in the west.

The Russians with help from Father Winter (German planes had lots of trouble in the winter) were able to move their airplane manufacturing to the far corners of Siberia and continued a steady stream of airplanes. sure mosts would get shot down by the superior German air forces but they would stretch their forces thin and the Russian planes kept coming.

let's just say even with their superior pilots and planes the Luftwaffe had their hands full.

Nobody is denying the western frontt helped. But Russsia was going to get to Berlin regardless.

No.
Just no.

The biggest failure was the failed attempt on Britain. That was basically the end of the Luftwaffe as a viable military option.

Russia would have been corn holed on two fronts if the U.S. had not entered the war. Japan is somehow conveniently forgotten. They had already made trouble in Russia a number of times and had the strength to make things much worse by WWII.

The Who

People forget

[Infinite_limit]

Let em go in and get pecked apart.

Russia is a story of vast potential never realized.
Russia and China are in for the long haul existence. Usually immense Nationalism holds back economic potential. So Russia loses some quality people and doesn't really replace them with skilled immigrants.

But this is also means Russia & China started Post-African life and they will finish it. In a mass invasion, multicultural Americans would destroy each other.

[pgardn]

Russia and China are in for the long haul existence. Usually immense Nationalism holds back economic potential. So Russia loses some quality people and doesn't really replace them with skilled immigrants.

But this is also means Russia & China started Post-African life and they will finish it. In a mass invasion, multicultural Americans would destroy each other.

you don't think Russia is multicultural? Have you looked at the Asian influence in the east?

And you got pipe dreams about the U.S.
When are Canada or Mexico going military? Our geography puts us miles ahead of Europe and the constant back and forth. The great experiment you hate is alive and well. Keep that anecdotal race baiting up. It's not gonna lead to any race war no matter how bad you want it to.

[Infinite_limit]

you don't think Russia is multicultural? Have you looked at the Asian influence in the east?

And you got pipe dreams about the U.S.
When are Canada or Mexico going military? Our geography puts us miles ahead of Europe and the constant back and forth. The great experiment you hate is alive and well. Keep that anecdotal race baiting up. It's not gonna lead to any race war no matter how bad you want it to.
Considering Russia's immense size and so many neighboring countires, I do not consider it multicultural.

You would be better suited with a neighbor to shoulder some of the protection. I meant Race Wars when an invasion occurs. Russians and Chinese live simplistic lives while most Americans rely on Gas, Internet, Fast Food, Sports etc. If the Nazis couldn't finish off the final Russian, you think Americans are gonna survive Siberia and clean out bunkers?

How often does someone win an Asian land war? North America has changed hands many times

[m>s]

Russia and China are in for the long haul existence. Usually immense Nationalism holds back economic potential. So Russia loses some quality people and doesn't really replace them with skilled immigrants.

But this is also means Russia & China started Post-African life and they will finish it. In a mass invasion, multicultural Americans would destroy each other.
Hell we don't have to wait for an invasion, they're doing it now and it's only getting worse and worse. The more shitskins that flood in the more divided we become. Dirkoneanddoneski was kind enough to post just one example in the blacks vs Browns thread. All throughout history pairing two different peoples in close proximity has never turned out well. Humans are tribalistic by nature.

[pgardn]

Considering Russia's immense size and so many neighboring countires, I do not consider it multicultural.

You would be better suited with a neighbor to shoulder some of the protection. I meant Race Wars when an invasion occurs. Russians and Chinese live simplistic lives while most Americans rely on Gas, Internet, Fast Food, Sports etc. If the Nazis couldn't finish off the final Russian, you think Americans are gonna survive Siberia and clean out bunkers?

How often does someone win an Asian land war? North America has changed hands many times

Yes it has between sparse American Indian tribes.
Repeat. This is NOT Europe.

Invasion from where? Seriously? You need to give it 1000 more years when we are all dead.

[pgardn]

Hell we don't have to wait for an invasion, they're doing it now and it's only getting worse and worse. The more shitskins that flood in the more divided we become. Dirkoneanddoneski was kind enough to post just one example in the blacks vs Browns thread. All throughout history pairing two different peoples in close proximity has never turned out well. Humans are tribalistic by nature.

We are blending against your will.
Yes it's happening. This is not Norway, Japan or China.
We are all muts. We are not inbred freaks. Muts last. Muts are cunning and resorceful.
Too many people during too many periods have populated the US. We have German/Irish/African/Asian muts that survive and win.

Give in. It's inevitable.

[m>s]

We are blending against your will.
Yes it's happening. This is not Norway, Japan or China.
We are all muts. We are not inbred freaks. Muts last. Muts are cunning and resorceful.
Too many people during too many periods have populated the US. We have German/Irish/African/Asian muts that survive and win.

Give in. It's inevitable.
Speak for yourself. I do not consider a mixture of similar European people's such as a German and a Brit to be just some lowly mutt. Whites do not want to racemix on any large scale. Why would one give away his nobility, intellect, and aesthetic features like light hair and eyes to racemix and have his children not look anything like him? This is pure cuckoldry. Go ahead and do so if you wish, you haven't been one of us for some time nothing will be lost.

[pgardn]

Speak for yourself. I do not consider a mixture of similar European people's such as a German and a Brit to be just some lowly mutt. Whites do not want to racemix on any large scale. Why would one give away his nobility, intellect, and aesthetic features like light hair and eyes to racemix and have his children not look anything like him? This is pure cuckoldry. Go ahead and do so if you wish, you haven't been one of us for some time nothing will be lost.

You are swimming upstream.
The current is too strong.
You will continue to live a sad bitter life hoping for violence.


Muts flourish unlike inbred German Shepherds with displaced hips. The best dog is a mut. You are most likely a mut and don't even know it. Go take a DNA test. It could be humbling. But be satisfied your variation will make you stronger.

[m>s]

Done with this conversation, what is it with you people and quickly resorting to shitposting drivel

[Winehole23]

^^^exits tail between legs. hit a nerve?

[Winehole23]

more Nazi thumbsucking

[m>s]

There is literally no point in arguing with a trolling shitposter. B-but my German shepherds analogy. German shepherds here in the states are very poorly bred, just like American people. While German shepherds in Germany don't have the retarded posture and hip issues. Boom backfire. But I really do have better things to do than argue retarded dog to person comparisons and point out why he's wrong. He's free to disrespect his ancestors and throw away his heritage if he likes. Now he's an adopted n!gger and not one of us.

[hater]

No.
Just no.

The biggest failure was the failed attempt on Britain. That was basically the end of the Luftwaffe as a viable military option.

Russia would have been corn holed on two fronts if the U.S. had not entered the war. Japan is somehow conveniently forgotten. They had already made trouble in Russia a number of times and had the strength to make things much worse by WWII.

The Who

People forget

Sure allies helped nobody is denying that. Also nobody is assuming Russia would have fought vs no Japan and Germany.

BUT I stress third reichs biggest mistake was attacking Russia and failing to take Moscow that first year. The rest is repercusions of that grave mistake.

[pgardn]

There is literally no point in arguing with a trolling shitposter. B-but my German shepherds analogy. German shepherds here in the states are very poorly bred, just like American people. While German shepherds in Germany don't have the retarded posture and hip issues. Boom backfire. But I really do have better things to do than argue retarded dog to person comparisons and point out why he's wrong. He's free to disrespect his ancestors and throw away his heritage if he likes. Now he's an adopted n!gger and not one of us.

One of us is people that kayak fish.
Its a much better way to rate a human than skin color.


And of course using a GERMAN Shepard was a troll. But the advantage of variation was not. And I do not exclusively mean genetic variation. Allowing for differences in thinking and cultures is a huge advantage for this country. There is a reason we are the most innovative country on Earth. We grab pioneers from other countries daily. I see it in my work DIRECTLY. I see it, it's not just talk.

[m>s]

We were more innovative in the past. Most of our big innovations came when we were a monolithic white society. Electricity, nuclear weapons and energy, jet engine (came from white Germany), automobile, trains, penicillin, the list goes on.

[m>s]

Sure allies helped nobody is denying that. Also nobody is assuming Russia would have fought vs no Japan and Germany.

BUT I stress third reichs biggest mistake was attacking Russia and failing to take Moscow that first year. The rest is repercusions of that grave mistake.
It's Italy's fault, they decided to attack Greece and got destroyed and hurler had to delay Barbarrosa to clean up that mess. Those 6 weeks were difference making.

[RandomGuy]

Speak for yourself. I do not consider a mixture of similar European people's such as a German and a Brit to be just some lowly mutt. Whites do not want to racemix on any large scale. Why would one give away his nobility, intellect, and aesthetic features like light hair and eyes to racemix and have his children not look anything like him? This is pure cuckoldry. Go ahead and do so if you wish, you haven't been one of us for some time nothing will be lost.

Problem is that the Germanic tribes already were infused with Asian and slavic genes from successive steppes invasions.
http://www.healthline.com/health/mongolian-blue-spots#Overview1

The genetic identity you are pushing isn't really even a coherent idea.

[m>s]

Ignore cuck posts, hide cuck threads, do not respond to cuck posters

[RandomGuy]

Sure allies helped nobody is denying that. Also nobody is assuming Russia would have fought vs no Japan and Germany.

BUT I stress third reichs biggest mistake was attacking Russia and failing to take Moscow that first year. The rest is repercusions of that grave mistake.

Moscow was an unachievable goal for the first year. Better would have been to have flanked south to the oilfields, with just enough to pin the ill-prepared russian units defending a city for propaganda while the rest of the industry and resources needed could be seized. The steppes played into german strengths, the terrain around moscow russias.

[pgardn]

We were more innovative in the past. Most of our big innovations came when we were a monolithic white society. Electricity, nuclear weapons and energy, jet engine (came from white Germany), automobile, trains, penicillin, the list goes on.

We led and lead the information revolution.

Where have you been? How are we able to do what we are doing now? And no one touches us in medicine. It's not even close. And military innovation is not even close. We mastered the drone and so much else.

This place is still by far and away the world leader in the majority of scientific discoveries and the technology that follow. It's US. Hands down, not even close.

Wake up!

Indian Americans , Chinese Americans and even Russian American intellectuals have been a godsend. And we get them because they are set free here to achieve.

[m>s]

Europe beats us in medicine and the top echelon of our military and research are still traditional white Americans

[tlongII]

Europe beats us in medicine and the top echelon of our military and research are still traditional white Americans

Bullshit.

[pgardn]

Europe beats us in medicine and the top echelon of our military and research are still traditional white Americans

Not even close.

There are a huge number of Indians and Chinese that do tremendous research in the life sciences. And they are US citizens. Hah! They are ours. They want some freedom to pursue their interests. They do not want to be stuck in a caste system.

We get the best people from countries that practice rigidity and oppression. It's a beautiful thing. The best and the brightest want to be here. We have a brain pipeline ready made. Is so damn obvious to people in science and technology. These people make up for the lazy asses that spend all day on message boards.

[m>s]

You must be talking about yourself because I've been out making money all day. All of our biggest game changing innovations came when we were an almost monolithic white society. This is objectively the truth. How many chinks and mudshits were on the Manhattan project? How many designed the jet engine? Penicillin? Electricity? Computer? Internet? All white. Now days we get some foreigners to do some of the grunt work but overall our innovation has really gone to shit.

[m>s]

Bullshit.
Yeah there's a reason our athletes all go to germany for procedures and treatments. Look at all of Germany's achievements, again a German state.

[pgardn]

You must be talking about yourself because I've been out making money all day. All of our biggest game changing innovations came when we were an almost monolithic white society. This is objectively the truth. How many chinks and mudshits were on the Manhattan project? How many designed the jet engine? Penicillin? Electricity? Computer? Internet? All white. Now days we get some foreigners to do some of the grunt work but overall our innovation has really gone to shit.

The pioneers that come here to be set free as individuals are as important today as the people who built this country, All willing to take risks for a fulfilling life. Skin color does not determine the best and brightest. I have and do work with people or offspring of people who are a credit to this country and its innovation and they are NOT Caucasian.

Step on board or step off, the train is leaving the station. If you have not witnessed this yourself, you don't have a job that involves this country moving forward. I do.

[Shastafarian]

First of all, "that story is pretty horrifying" tells me you don't know about Breaking the Silence. There are hundreds of testimonials from Israeli soldiers on how they committed or were directed to commit war crimes. It's not "a story", it is a series of testimonials that demonstrate the state of Israel directs their army to violate international law and murder innocents.I don't need to have heard those testimonials. I've heard the stories directly from Israeli soldiers. That's also irrelevant to my point that you're an enormous hypocrite.


Secondly, focusing on the government acts which are committed in our own name as opposed to those committed by others is completely bankrupt. As Chomsky famously expressed:



The Saudi slaughter of Yemeni civilians and the refusal to take responsibility for those deaths despite the US/West supplying of the very weapons that are killing innocents is just the latest example: https://theintercept.com/2015/09/15/great-bbc-interview-british-loyalist-saudi-regime-shows-journalists-first-duty/
ROFL. So let me see if I'm understanding you correctly. Because we don't support the Syrian regime, it's cool for you to be a hypocrite?

[pgardn]

Why Syrians leaving Syria

http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/many-syrian-refugees-fleeing-civil-war-have-lost-faith-in-a-solution-a-1052576.html

Assad or ISIS
The above says Assad.

[m>s]

Cluck cluck

[hater]

Russia is not building a base. They have a base. A Mediterranean sea port. Very strategically important and their last base overseas. It takes someone with a couple of neurons to understand why they'd want to protect that.

:lmao stupid US media making it sem he's planning to invade the middle east :lmao fucking retards

[m>s]

Russian media reported over the weekend that Russian forces had repelled an Isis attack on their air base and several Isis were killed and captured

[RandomGuy]

Ignore cuck posts, hide cuck threads, do not respond to cuck posters

:lmao

You and your obsession with "cuckold". Seriously starting to get a bit creepy, even more so than your creepy nazi schtick.