John Carlos Meets the Spurs

[Splits]

John Carlos Meets the Spurs

Meeting and speaking to the San Antonio Spurs meant a great deal to 1968 Olympic gold medalist and protester.

By

Dave Zirin (http://www.thenation.com/authors/dave-zirin/)

TODAY 11:43 AM
http://www.thenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/john_carlos_olympics_ap_img.jpg (http://www.thenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/john_carlos_olympics_ap_img.jpg)Athletes Tommie Smith, center, and John Carlos, right, raise their fists in protest during the “Star-Spangled Banner” at the Summer Olympic Games in Mexico City, 1968. (AP Photo / File)


This past weekend, I traveled to Texas with 1968 Olympic Sprinter and medal stand protester John Carlos to speak to the San Antonio Spurs. At the request of their head coach, Gregg Popovich, Dr. Carlos addressed the team and then we attended a practice. I delivered an intro about the social context of the 1968 Mexico City Olympics and then turned it over to Dr. Carlos for a brief talk and Q&A.


Out of respect for everyone’s privacy, I’m not going to write about the intense questions that the Spurs players asked Dr. Carlos. I’m not going to write about the unique culture created by Coach Popovich, a culture where listening to John Carlos was seen as an important part of getting ready for the NBA season. I’m not going to write about his terrific collection of assistant coaches. I’m also not going to write about spilling a drink all over a team executive or my clunker of an opening joke to the team (at least I’m consistent no matter the audience).


The main reason I am not going to write about any of this is that if I learned one thing about Gregg Popovich this weekend, it’s that praise legitimately makes him uncomfortable. Pop is cool as hell. Imagine Lawrence Tierney in Reservoir Dogs with a sense of humor and a moral compass. But he doesn’t like or want the personal attention or ballyhoo. Coaches with a fraction of his accomplishments—five NBA titles over 16 years—have written multiple memoirs or insipid “team building” corporate handbooks. He never has. It sounds cliché, but the success of the team, the on-and-off court development of his players (“his sons”), and the chemistry of his assistant coaches are how he defines his own success. Even though he wouldn’t want to hear it, Popovich embodies what InSide Out Coaching author Joe Ehrmann means when he writes that coaches need to be “transformational” instead of “transactional”; in other words, caring about developing players as human beings as opposed to using them to gratify their own egos.


But I will say something about how much this trip meant to John Carlos. Please understand that after Dr. Carlos and I wrote his memoir, we spoke everywhere from high schools and colleges to prisons and Occupy Wall Street. But in the fraternity of pro sports, no one reached out to us. I was stunned teams didn’t respond to my e-mails when we traveled to a given town, but John Carlos was not surprised at all. In the sports world, Carlos had long been treated like he was a toxic element, as pro sports transformed into a global corporate leviathan. There was no room for his voice in an era when political stances, particularly among black athletes, were seen as antithetical to the business of winning games at all costs. Carlos and his family have paid a price for this isolation. He may have no regrets about raising his fist in Mexico City, but that doesn’t make the cost of taking that stand sting any less.


Now Dr. Carlos is 70. His hip is hurting fiercely. The legs that could once run 100 yards in nine seconds strain to keep him upright. Yet this weekend, he was feeling no pain. For 48 hours, John Carlos glowed.


“This experience was great opportunity to talk to a team I admire, and to be up close and personal with a coach I think has special gifts in dealing with young athletes,” he said to me. “It felt great to spread the message that it has to be about more than just the game, the check, the fortune and fame. It’s imperative for me to let them know they can do so much more and just how they can make nonviolent change in such a violent world. I’m just blessed I had the opportunity to be here.”


These last two days meant something soul-deep to Dr. Carlos. I’ve seen him repeatedly be embraced by young people who stand with the anti-racist and human-rights principles for which he sacrificed. To have it welcomed by the model NBA franchise was indescribably touching to witness.


A couple of times this weekend, John Carlos misted over. I asked him what was moving him. He said, “Being treated right…. It just makes it all matter.”

[Robz4000]

:cry so much class :cry

In all seriousness, I'm glad for him.

[SAGirl]

Very nice piece, here is the article, so you can click on it to give traffic where its due:http://www.thenation.com/article/the-vindication-of-dr-john-carlos/

Thanks for sharing Splits.

[Splits]

Becky: https://instagram.com/p/8a7UZOnBoI/

[From Downtown]

That's pretty cool
I genuinely didn't know the story,I've never heard anybody talking about him over here
Thanks for sharing

[Birn]

Big deal. Nobody cares what this Socialist radical has to say. He's a bitter old man that is pissed at the United States and favors for a complete and total redistribution of private assets for the exclusive benefit of blacks only. This guy is a radical. Bad idea Pop....Bad idea.

[Bartleby]

Big deal. Nobody cares what this Socialist radical has to say.

apparently Pop does.

[peacemaker885]

Stuff like these makes one proud to be a Spurs fan. Happy for you guys who actually live there in SA.

[BatManu20]

This is pretty badass tbh. :tu

[FromWayDowntown]

Big deal. Nobody cares what this Socialist radical has to say. He's a bitter old man that is pissed at the United States and favors for a complete and total redistribution of private assets for the exclusive benefit of blacks only. This guy is a radical. Bad idea Pop....Bad idea.

Pop's a liberal guy and he's certainly shown an interest in progressivism.

Exposing his players to someone who put a passion for equality and social justice ahead of his own fame or accolades (said differently, someone who got over himself) is very Popovich-ian.

[Mr. Body]

Great story. I wish we had more of it - what the questions were, for example - but an interesting event to think about. It's hard to believe what happened in 1968 was so intensely controversial, that it basically destroyed careers and was tantamount to a revolutionary act. Hell, even Mexico City was undergoing horrible protests just before the Olympics where a lot of people died.

The story of the white dude in the picture, by the way, is equally fascinating. He's rightly third place in the political moment, but he wasn't simply a bystander. By some accounts it's his gloves they're both wearing -- they asked his permission before doing the fist-raised salute, or at least asked if he minded, since it was intruding on his moment, but he was more than for it. He paid the price in his native Australia and was basically redacted in the annals of their sports culture once he got home. He wasn't even mentioned during the Sydney Olympics in 2000, despite them bringing up any athlete of note from that country. It's all an insane story, every bit of it, how the world reacted to two men demanding to be seen as human beings.

[ginobilized]

Already setting the table to make this season about far more than basketball, wins, championships, etc.
Makes me want to be a better and bigger person, too. Thanks for sharing this!

[boutons_deux]

I genuinely didn't know the story,I've never heard anybody talking about him over here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salute

he was hated by Ms for introducing racial politics into the Olympics. also see Watts riots, MLK riots, etc, etc. '60s were a crazy decade.

[FromWayDowntown]

The story of the white dude in the picture, by the way, is equally fascinating. He's rightly third place in the political moment, but he wasn't simply a bystander.

In the picture at the top of the thread, you can see him (Peter Norman) wearing a white circular patch that both Smith and Carlos were also wearing; that patch was from the Olympic Project for Human Rights (which was founded by Dr. Harry Edwards, himself a pioneer in marrying sports and human rights) and Norman agreed to wear it as a symbol of solidarity with the salute.

If those aren't his gloves, he's at least partially responsible for the fact that they're wearing gloves at all, since Carlos reportedly left his gloves in the village and Norman is alleged to have suggested that Smith and Carlos each wear one of Smith's gloves. And the price for Norman was very high, as you suggest: "Despite qualifying 13 times over and being ranked fifth in the world, [Norman] was not sent to the following Munich games, where Australia had no sprinter for the first time in the Olympics."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7674157.stm

[Birn]

Pop's a liberal guy and he's certainly shown an interest in progressivism.

Exposing his players to someone who put a passion for equality and social justice ahead of his own fame or accolades (said differently, someone who got over himself) is very Popovich-ian.

That's what this guy's problem is exactly. He's bitter that he never became more influential as a progressive radical. He's turned off that today's athletes don't know who he is and that they are incredibly affluent and famous. He actually believes that he made it possible for blacks to enjoy all the success they achieved in sports today. His passion for whatever he believes is no more important or influential than anyone else's passion. He assumes that today's successful black athletes owe him something, which they don't. He needs to get over himself. Pop is showing incredible hubris bringing in this anti American communist. This guy represents nothing meaningful other than to indoctrinate people into a collectivist and statist mentality. John Carlos HATES wealth and actually believes that today's athletes are being enslaved by money and greed which prevents them from protesting his favorite progressive causes. He fails to understand that most of today's athletes can speak for themselves and don't need people of his ilk to tell them how they should think and what they should support. He's intolerance for other views makes his message extremely hypocritical. Bad idea, Pop. You whiffed on this one.

[ChumpDumper]

That's what this guy's problem is exactly. He's bitter that he never became more influential as a progressive radical. He's turned off that today's athletes don't know who he is and that they are incredibly affluent and famous. He actually believes that he made it possible for blacks to enjoy all the success they achieved in sports today. His passion for whatever he believes is no more important or influential than anyone else's passion. He assumes that today's successful black athletes owe him something, which they don't. He needs to get over himself. Pop is showing incredible hubris bringing in this anti American communist. This guy represents nothing meaningful other than to indoctrinate people into a collectivist and statist mentality. John Carlos HATES wealth and actually believes that today's athletes are being enslaved by money and greed which prevents them from protesting his favorite progressive causes. He fails to understand that most of today's athletes can speak for themselves and don't need people of his ilk to tell them how they should think and what they should support. He's intolerance for other views makes his message extremely hypocritical. Bad idea, Pop. You whiffed on this one.This is a joke post, right?

[Birn]

I like this Juan Carlos guy more and more. Keep typing birn

Then you must also like the Westboro Baptist Church too. They are passionate about their beliefs and use staged protests to convey their messages. No different from John Carlos. Pop may as well brought them in if the point was to stand strong with your beliefs no matter how steep a price you might pay personally and professionally.

[Birn]

Glad I could enlighten you. I appreciate your willingness to understand the truth about John Carlos.

[lefty]

Better than Porker tbh

[Birn]

Better than Porker tbh

LOL!

[Birn]

Better than Porker tbh

LOL!

[ChumpDumper]

Then you must also like the Westboro Baptist Church too. They are passionate about their beliefs and use staged protests to convey their messages. No different from John Carlos. Pop may as well brought them in if the point was to stand strong with your beliefs no matter how steep a price you might pay personally and professionally.Which veteran's funeral did Carlos disrupt?

[Birn]

Which veteran's funeral did Carlos disrupt?

They disrupt everything. Not just veteran funerals. They are a disgusting lot to say the least but their protests are protected free speech in our country. John Carlos and Pop would be huge admirers if they were really sincere about the virtue of sticking to your beliefs regardless of consequences. It's quite silly to believe this guy is a legitimate social warrior. The fact is that the Spurs had to pay this guy to come and speak to the team. Thanks to liberal progressive contacts throughout the black and sports community, this is the only way this fraud can get an audience. Had he tried to schedule a public presentation at a local venue, nobody would come because the guy is irrelevant and inconsequential in today's modern civil society.

[ChumpDumper]

They disrupt everything. Not just veteran funerals. They are a disgusting lot to say the least but their protests are protected free speech in our country. John Carlos and Pop would be huge admirers if they were really sincere about the virtue of sticking to your beliefs regardless of consequences. It's quite silly to believe this guy is a legitimate social warrior. The fact is that the Spurs had to pay this guy to come and speak to the team. Thanks to liberal progressive contacts throughout the black and sports community, this is the only way this fraud can get an audience. Had he tried to schedule a public presentation at a local venue, nobody would come because the guy is irrelevant and inconsequential in today's modern civil society.You're really bitter about this guy, aren't you?

Dude just raised a fist.

Or did he do something else to offend you?

[ElNono]

but John Carlos is bitter... :lol

[Splits]

You're really bitter about this guy, aren't you?

Dude just raised a fist.

Or did he do something else to offend you?

He also took off his shoes.

[Birn]

You're really bitter about this guy, aren't you?

Dude just raised a fist.

Or did he do something else to offend you?

The guy hates America and everything we represent. He believes our country was founded illegitimately. He refuses to acknowledge that we are the greatest country on earth that has lifted more people out of poverty and oppression than any other nation on the planet. I don't like people who trash my country. He raised a fist because of the treatment of blacks during the Civil rights movement. Big deal. There were other civil rights leaders doing the same thing all over the country. He was not unique. What makes him different from the leaders at that time is he has developed a belief system that despises American capitalism and free enterprise. He demands ridiculous crap like reparations for all blacks and perpetuates lies regarding current urban issues in the black community. He tried to take Charles Barkley and Stephen A Smith to task for them calling the violent protesters in Ferguson and Baltimore thugs. Barkley didn't back down and told him the whole "hands up don't shoot " meme was a total fabrication. My issue with him is not what he did in 1968 but what he has done since then by trashing our country and working hard to transform it into a European socialist tyrannical system. If he doesn't like our values and ideals he needs to get all his shit and go.

[ChumpDumper]

The guy hates America and everything we represent. He believes our country was founded illegitimately. He refuses to acknowledge that we are the greatest country on earth that has lifted more people out of poverty and oppression than any other nation on the planet. I don't like people who trash my country. He raised a fist because of the treatment of blacks during the Civil rights movement. Big deal. There were other civil rights leaders doing the same thing all over the country. He was not unique. What makes him different from the leaders at that time is he has developed a belief system that despises American capitalism and free enterprise. He demands ridiculous crap like reparations for all blacks and perpetuates lies regarding current urban issues in the black community. He tried to take Charles Barkley and Stephen A Smith to task for them calling the violent protesters in Ferguson and Baltimore thugs. Barkley didn't back down and told him the whole "hands up don't shoot " meme was a total fabrication. My issue with him is not what he did in 1968 but what he has done since then by trashing our country and working hard to transform it into a European socialist tyrannical system. If he doesn't like our values and ideals he needs to get all his shit and go.You've followed this guy very closely these past 50 years.

Or did you just google all that stuff for your speech?

[Splits]

Good to know racism and ultra-nationalism isn't confined to the political sub.

[Birn]

Good to know ignorance, intolerance and ultra radical anti American views isn't confined to the political sub.

[Birn]

Good to know racism and ultra-nationalism isn't confined to the political sub.

Show me one example where I have stated anything racist, asshole. Typical for uninformed fucks like yourself. Whenever you no longer can argue the merits of an issue you just call someone a racist.

[ChumpDumper]

lol ultra radical

[HI-FI]

Better than Porker tbh

[itzsoweezee]

Best organization in sports. So glad to be a spurs fan. It'll be a sad day when popovich retires.

[Mr. Body]

That's what this guy's problem is exactly. He's bitter that he never became more influential as a progressive radical. He's turned off that today's athletes don't know who he is and that they are incredibly affluent and famous. He actually believes that he made it possible for blacks to enjoy all the success they achieved in sports today. His passion for whatever he believes is no more important or influential than anyone else's passion. He assumes that today's successful black athletes owe him something, which they don't. He needs to get over himself. Pop is showing incredible hubris bringing in this anti American communist. This guy represents nothing meaningful other than to indoctrinate people into a collectivist and statist mentality. John Carlos HATES wealth and actually believes that today's athletes are being enslaved by money and greed which prevents them from protesting his favorite progressive causes. He fails to understand that most of today's athletes can speak for themselves and don't need people of his ilk to tell them how they should think and what they should support. He's intolerance for other views makes his message extremely hypocritical. Bad idea, Pop. You whiffed on this one.

You're fucking retarded.

[tmtcsc]

I guess Ted Cruz wasn't available.
............... these are the jokes people, keep up.

[exstatic]

but John Carlos is bitter... :lol

:lol

The demands of the protest were 1. Avery Brundage must be removed from being the head of the IOC 2. Banning participation from apartheid South Africa and Rhodesia 3. Hiring more African American coaches and 4. Restoring Muhammad Ali's title (he was stripped because he refused to go to Vietnam).

?? What? No wealth redistribution? The horror...

Psst. All of those were eventually done, because they were the right thing to do.

[Birn]

:lol

The demands of the protest were 1. Avery Brundage must be removed from being the head of the IOC 2. Banning participation from apartheid South Africa and Rhodesia 3. Hiring more African American coaches and 4. Restoring Muhammad Ali's title (he was stripped because he refused to go to Vietnam).

?? What? No wealth redistribution? The horror...

Psst. All of those were eventually done, because they were the right thing to do.

Let me help you out, moron. As I've stated previously, my issues with John Carlos relates to his radical views since the 1968 Olympics. Read his book and it will tell you all you need to know about the man and his disdain for the United States and that blacks deserve reparations through direct confiscation of assets from private citizens. He's a radical anti American communist. He was not responsible for the changes that occurred after the 68 Olympics. He likes to think that he was and that's how he has tried to brand himself. 95% of the people on this board had no clue who he was and same thing with pro athletes. Pop whiffed big time on this one. Why not bring in Kim Davis to speak to the team. She was jailed for upholding her religious beliefs and never waivered. She was released ultimately since the court realized that her protests were correct no matter the public backlash she suffered. If the point Pop is making is for athletes to know there are things bigger than basketball then why not her story? The problem with Pop is that he assumes athletes are basically dumb and uninformed so he feels compelled to show them how to think. These are all grown ass men who can think for themselves. Pop is perpetuating the rot of PC culture. Bad bad idea. Best to leave these matters for individuals to learn and decide for themselves.

[Splits]

:lmao Birn

[rastaspur]

Birn has anger issues and is retarded. That's a double whammy! :lol

[K...]

Holy shit, did I just hear pop was going to ship Lenins's body and suit him up to as a rim defender? Something about a eastern European big man with stiff movements. This is outrageous.

I would think, inviting thibs to meet the team would be more controversial. But whatever, it's not like the 1960s ever ended and racism wasn't solved by Reagan in 1983.

[FromWayDowntown]

If there is one consistent criticism of Pop, it is his unwillingness to stray from PC (he only ever says the things that people expect him to say, he's never blunt, and he's almost never offensive) and his insistence that his players are stupid people. His utter inflexibility over time is equalled only by his total unwillingness to ever rock the boat.

And if there are any hallmarks of Pop's teams and the players on those teams, they would include the fact that the players are incurious and coddled people who refuse to act professionally or to perform their jobs with any sort of dignity or grace and are basically unthinking automatons who do only as Popovich tells them. The Spurs players are the walking embodiment of PC run amok.

If he exposed his team only to patriotic, pro-American (never minding that a significant portion of the team isn't actually American), conservative thought, the Spurs would be much better off -- more accountable and professional, at the very least.


[/bluetext]

[Birn]

Pop shouldn't feel compelled to bring anybody in to address players on unrelated social issues. He should do that on his own time with voluntary participation from the players. There's literally hundreds of issues that are much bigger than basketball. Pop shouldn't cherry pick his favorite PC issue and shove it down their throats. Just stick to doing your job and stop using the Spurs organization as a cheap platform for ginned up social issues.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, I'm sure the players feel totally oppressed by Pop and forced to believe everything he does.

[FromWayDowntown]

No doubt -- it's entirely unlikely that any of the Spurs had any interest in hearing anything from John Carlos until Popovich forced him on the team.

And racial discrimination, particularly on a team with a roster that is overwhelmingly black, is a ginned up social issue that those guys don't care anything about.

[Warlord23]

The guy hates America and everything we represent.

And you're the kind that loves America, but hates most people living in it.


... European socialist tyrannical system ...

Is that what Rush and Hannity have told you about Europe? Please don't breed.

[Birn]

And you're the kind that loves America, but hates most people living in it.



Is that what Rush and Hannity have told you about Europe? Please don't breed.

Read his books asshole before shooting your mouth off. I love everyone that pledges allegiance to our great country and anyone else who feels like Carlos does about the usa should getthe hell out of here. I also have news for you, Carlos' primary objective and desire has little to do with race. He uses race as his vehicle to gain a platform but he's totally insincere about it. If he and Pop truly want to raise the consiousness of the Spurs players then we need to be talking about the key central issue of our time which is the deliberate and evil genocide of Christians and moderate Muslims all over the world. Look at all the refugees fleeing Europe to escape death and oppression. Gays and lesbians and Christians killed worldwide by the thousands just because they refuse to reject their belief system. Carlos is completely silent on this issue because it is exactly what he wants to see in our country. Read his book people.

[Splits]

:lmao

Birn is the next mass school shooter. Better hope you don't live near this guy.

:cry I pledge allegiance, to the flag :cry

What are you, 12?

[Birn]

Real classy. I guess you have nothing else to add to the conversation at hand. Not surprised since I have detailed all the truth bombs regarding comrade John Carlos.

Can't wait for the season to start so we can hopefully focus on basketball instead of anti American filth like John Carlos and his bud Splits.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol You are one angry dude.

truth b:crymbs

[Othyus Lalanne]

Holy shit, did I just hear pop was going to ship Lenins's body and suit him up to as a rim defender? Something about a eastern European big man with stiff movements. This is outrageous.

I would think, inviting thibs to meet the team would be more controversial. But whatever, it's not like the 1960s ever ended and racism wasn't solved by Reagan in 1983.

For the wast majority of Americans the racism discussion is over., There could be subcultures but very few people think they are superior to x race because of their skin tone.

[Othyus Lalanne]

Read his books asshole before shooting your mouth off. I love everyone that pledges allegiance to our great country and anyone else who feels like Carlos does about the usa should getthe hell out of here. I also have news for you, Carlos' primary objective and desire has little to do with race. He uses race as his vehicle to gain a platform but he's totally insincere about it. If he and Pop truly want to raise the consiousness of the Spurs players then we need to be talking about the key central issue of our time which is the deliberate and evil genocide of Christians and moderate Muslims all over the world. Look at all the refugees fleeing Europe to escape death and oppression. Gays and lesbians and Christians killed worldwide by the thousands just because they refuse to reject their belief system. Carlos is completely silent on this issue because it is exactly what he wants to see in our country. Read his book people.
The US is not part of the intolerance ongoing there? They did not create it but by supporting the Saudis, and destabilizing secular states they are very responsible for the stuff that goes on.

[Birn]

If you read more about comrade Carlos and learned more about his world view, you would be angry too. The guy is total garbage.

[Budkin]

For the wast majority of Americans the racism discussion is over., There could be subcultures but very few people think they are superior to x race because of their skin tone.

How does the earth taste with your head so far underground tbh?

[ChumpDumper]

If you read more about comrade Carlos and learned more about his world view, you would be angry too.Probably not. I'm sure you're overreacting.

[Birn]

The US is not part of the intolerance ongoing there? They did not create it but by supporting the Saudis, and destabilizing secular states they are very responsible for the stuff that goes on.

No they aren't part of the intolerance in that part of the world. The destabilization of the secular nations was due to the withdrawal of our security forces in the region thanks to Obama and Kerry. Once we left, isis was created and the rest is history.

Thursday can't get here fast enough. I prefer to talk basketball in all honesty. However, this issue with Carlos really got under my skin.

[Birn]

Probably not. I'm sure you're overreacting.

No, not at all. You're just uninformed and ignorant.

[Othyus Lalanne]

How does the earth taste with your head so far underground tbh?

Hanging out with mine workers gives you a better perspective on race than reading click bait bs journalism.


No they aren't part of the intolerance in that part of the world. The destabilization of the secular nations was due to the withdrawal of our security forces in the region thanks to Obama and Kerry. Once we left, isis was created and the rest is history.

Thursday can't get here fast enough. I prefer to talk basketball in all honesty. However, this issue with Carlos really got under my skin.
Really? Who supported the rebels of Syria? Why did the US support the Libyan nutters?

[ChumpDumper]

No, not at all. You're just uninformed and ignorant.Well, post some relevant quotes and inform us all.

I'll wait.

[Splits]

:lmao ISIS was created by withdrawing from Iraq after a 10 year occupation? Should we have just colonized Iraq? You do know they are all former Baathists from Sadaam's army flying a different flag, right?

John Carlos is an American hero. That's why Pop brought him in to inspire this Spurs team, to show them there is more to life than basketball bitches and bills. Just because you're a right-wing racist xenophobe doesn't mean that most of your fellow citizens don't see the truth --> John Carlos == American hero.

[ElNono]

there it is! Thanks Obama! :lol

[Splits]

there it is! Thanks Obama! :lol

:lol

[dbestpro]

I am fairly conservative and I do not get all the hate for John Carlos. He defied authority through a peaceful demonstration, using the means at hand, which is something folks from Baltimore and St Louis could learn from.

[Birn]

I am fairly conservative and I do not get all the hate for John Carlos. He defied authority through a peaceful demonstration, using the means at hand, which is something folks from Baltimore and St Louis could learn from.

If you read his book you would think very differently of him.

[ChumpDumper]

If you read his book you would think very differently of him.Still waiting on those quotes.

[Birn]

:lmao ISIS was created by withdrawing from Iraq after a 10 year occupation? Should we have just colonized Iraq? You do know they are all former Baathists from Sadaam's army flying a different flag, right?

John Carlos is an American hero. That's why Pop brought him in to inspire this Spurs team, to show them there is more to life than basketball bitches and bills. Just because you're a right-wing racist xenophobe doesn't mean that most of your fellow citizens don't see the truth --> John Carlos == American hero.

LOL! You're so stupid. Our commanding generals on the ground pleaded with the administration to postpone the withdrawal or at least stage it slowly before turning it back over to the Iraqis. No, instead Obama ignored those recommendations and ordered a full and complete withdrawal. Leaving the Iraqis to deal with the insurgents on their own. Obama knew exactly what would happen and he did it anyway. The result is the chaos and refugee crisis through out the middle east and Europe. Obama owns this mess because he failed to listen to the military commanders on the ground who knew the local conditions better than anyone else. This is fairly common knowledge if you are interested in seeking out the truth.

Sorry to disappoint you but John Carlos is still no American hero. He despises America. I wish he would have left his legacy with the 68 Olympic protest. As I've stated many times, that's not my issue with him. I would be his biggest cheerleader if that's all he stood for. However, his books reveal a more sinister world view that is filled with anti American hate and a commitment to do all he can to transform our nation from a judeo Christian free market society to a European socialist model with radical changes that would benefit African Americans at the expense of all other citizens. He's basically Louis Farrakahn. He's no hero to most reasonable minded people.

[Splits]

If you read his book you would think very differently of him.

Like most sane Americans, you'd probably see him in the same light as MLK, John Lewis, and other Civil Rights leaders --> Hero

[ChumpDumper]

LOL! You're so stupid. Our commanding generals on the ground pleaded with the administration to postpone the withdrawal or at least stage it slowly before turning it back over to the Iraqis. No, instead Obama ignored those recommendations and ordered a full and complete withdrawal. Leaving the Iraqis to deal with the insurgents on their own. Obama knew exactly what would happen and he did it anyway. The result is the chaos and refugee crisis through out the middle east and Europe. Obama owns this mess because he failed to listen to the military commanders on the ground who knew the local conditions better than anyone else. This is fairly common knowledge if you are interested in seeking out the truth.Bush agreed to the withdrawal when the Iraqis said they wanted the Americans gone.


Sorry to disappoint you but John Carlos is still no American hero. He despises America. I wish he would have left his legacy with the 68 Olympic protest. As I've stated many times, that's not my issue with him. I would be his biggest cheerleader if that's all he stood for. However, his books reveal a more sinister world view that is filled with anti American hate and a commitment to do all he can to transform our nation from a judeo Christian free market society to a European socialist model with radical changes that would benefit African Americans at the expense of all other citizens. He's basically Louis Farrakahn. He's no hero to most reasonable minded people.All these text walls and not one quote.

[Ignignokt]

Into the trash it goes.

[Ignignokt]

Like most sane Americans, you'd probably see him in the same light as MLK, John Lewis, and other Civil Rights leaders --> Hero

We wuz kangs and queenz!!

Befoe deh huhwhyte man came, we wuz havin' det wifi and hovercrafts!!

[Splits]

LOL! You're so stupid. Our commanding generals on the ground pleaded with the administration to postpone the withdrawal or at least stage it slowly before turning it back over to the Iraqis. No, instead Obama ignored those recommendations and ordered a full and complete withdrawal. Leaving the Iraqis to deal with the insurgents on their own. Obama knew exactly what would happen and he did it anyway. The result is the chaos and refugee crisis through out the middle east and Europe. Obama owns this mess because he failed to listen to the military commanders on the ground who knew the local conditions better than anyone else. This is fairly common knowledge if you are interested in seeking out the truth.

There's a right-wing echo chamber that you live in, and then there is reality:


The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.%E2%80%93Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement)(offi cial name: Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq) was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States, signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. combat forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011. The pact required criminal charges for holding prisoners over 24 hours, and required a warrant for searches of homes and buildings that were not related to combat. U.S. contractors working for U.S. forces would have been subject to Iraqi criminal law, while contractors working for the State Department and other U.S. agencies would retain their immunity. If U.S. forces committed still undecided "major premeditated felonies" while off-duty and off-base, they would have been subjected to an undecided procedures laid out by a joint U.S.-Iraq committee if the U.S. certified the forces were off-duty.

Let me guess, wikipedia is a left-wing conspiracy website.



Sorry to disappoint you but John Carlos is still no American hero. He despises America. I wish he would have left his legacy with the 68 Olympic protest. As I've stated many times, that's not my issue with him. I would be his biggest cheerleader if that's all he stood for. However, his books reveal a more sinister world view that is filled with anti American hate and a commitment to do all he can to transform our nation from a judeo Christian free market society to a European socialist model with radical changes that would benefit African Americans at the expense of all other citizens. He's basically Louis Farrakahn. He's no hero to most reasonable minded people.

John Carlos is an American HeroPERIOD

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/images/news/201208/n_28274_1.jpg

[Ignignokt]

John Carlos is an American HeroPERIOD



who?

[m>s]

never heard of him, sounds like a commie

[K...]

Even worse Scott brooks is here! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

[Splits]

Birn meet m>s

You guys are going to be BFF

[Birn]

who?

Exactly!

[Ignignokt]

Birn meet m>s

You guys are going to be BFF

M>S meet Splits, he will make great ashes for your spring mulch.

[m>s]

M>S meet Splits, he will make great ashes for your spring mulch.
kek this guy is going to literally be pushed from the first to the third world to be among his compadres once the happening gets here. it's going to be funny to see his perspective change when he's actually forced to live among those he so fervently defends.

[Splits]

kek this guy is going to literally be pushed from the first to the third world to be among his compadres once the happening gets here. it's going to be funny to see his perspective change when he's actually forced to live among those he so fervently defends.

Except I can leave and go live in one of the top-5 countries in the world any time I wish.

[m>s]

you have no idea what i even just meant

[ChumpDumper]

you have no idea what i even just meant
The H:cryppening

[m>s]

why don't you meet me at walmart and i'll make you my bitch


with my penis


sexually

only trashy plebs shop at Walmart. Pleb.

[Splits]

Is the "day of the rope" upon us?

[Godbama]

The guy hates America and everything we represent. He believes our country was founded illegitimately. He refuses to acknowledge that we are the greatest country on earth that has lifted more people out of poverty and oppression than any other nation on the planet. I don't like people who trash my country. He raised a fist because of the treatment of blacks during the Civil rights movement. Big deal. There were other civil rights leaders doing the same thing all over the country. He was not unique. What makes him different from the leaders at that time is he has developed a belief system that despises American capitalism and free enterprise. He demands ridiculous crap like reparations for all blacks and perpetuates lies regarding current urban issues in the black community. He tried to take Charles Barkley and Stephen A Smith to task for them calling the violent protesters in Ferguson and Baltimore thugs. Barkley didn't back down and told him the whole "hands up don't shoot " meme was a total fabrication. My issue with him is not what he did in 1968 but what he has done since then by trashing our country and working hard to transform it into a European socialist tyrannical system. If he doesn't like our values and ideals he needs to get all his shit and go. lol

[spurslegacy]

how do people not realize that of all the hundreds of iterations of NBA teams in the last two decades, the Spurs have always been the team closest to socialist ideals. the sacrifice and lack of ego from every individual player for the team, the equal distribution of minutes and touches and cash, the family atmosphere that extends well beyond the floor, and well beyond basketball - that's how you have a successful organization. you care for them. you treat them like actual human beings, not slaves to their owners. this is what pop has been preaching since he got here, whether you're too much of an ignorant redneck to realize it or not. #feelthebern #notforthebillionaires


Big deal. Nobody cares what this Socialist radical has to say. He's a bitter old man that is pissed at the United States and favors for a complete and total redistribution of private assets for the exclusive benefit of blacks only. This guy is a radical. Bad idea Pop....Bad idea.

[spurslegacy]

stop being so misinformed i mean jeez exstatic - all those weird facts. no no not the facts.
:lol

The demands of the protest were 1. Avery Brundage must be removed from being the head of the IOC 2. Banning participation from apartheid South Africa and Rhodesia 3. Hiring more African American coaches and 4. Restoring Muhammad Ali's title (he was stripped because he refused to go to Vietnam).

?? What? No wealth redistribution? The horror...

Psst. All of those were eventually done, because they were the right thing to do.

[spurslegacy]

agreed. nobody else would have had the balls to do this. or hire becky. his veins run with fighter jet fuel from his time at the air force academy. i'm sure he has enough in the tank to last another 26 years.
:lol

The demands of the protest were 1. Avery Brundage must be removed from being the head of the IOC 2. Banning participation from apartheid South Africa and Rhodesia 3. Hiring more African American coaches and 4. Restoring Muhammad Ali's title (he was stripped because he refused to go to Vietnam).

?? What? No wealth redistribution? The horror...

Psst. All of those were eventually done, because they were the right thing to do.


Best organization in sports. So glad to be a spurs fan. It'll be a sad day when popovich retires.

[spurslegacy]

WHAAAA???? insistence that his players are stupid people? huh?? no i think the reason he brought john carlos was exactly the opposite. because they COULD understand his message (except for Boban - he no understand nothing - surry). inflexibility over time? yeah cuz they never changed their offensive schemes over the course of two decades with scores of different players of yes, diverse backgrounds (glad you at least picked that up). look up David West and HIS "PC run amok" - he's also been a social activist/warrior for many years now. maybe you guys should figure out a different team to like. how about dallas? or the lakers? i hear they have nick young AND lou williams :p: #feelthebern


If there is one consistent criticism of Pop, it is his unwillingness to stray from PC (he only ever says the things that people expect him to say, he's never blunt, and he's almost never offensive) and his insistence that his players are stupid people. His utter inflexibility over time is equalled only by his total unwillingness to ever rock the boat.

And if there are any hallmarks of Pop's teams and the players on those teams, they would include the fact that the players are incurious and coddled people who refuse to act professionally or to perform their jobs with any sort of dignity or grace and are basically unthinking automatons who do only as Popovich tells them. The Spurs players are the walking embodiment of PC run amok.

If he exposed his team only to patriotic, pro-American (never minding that a significant portion of the team isn't actually American), conservative thought, the Spurs would be much better off -- more accountable and professional, at the very least.


[/bluetext]

[spurslegacy]

https://youtu.be/D35uvpN3IKk


Real classy. I guess you have nothing else to add to the conversation at hand. Not surprised since I have detailed all the truth bombs regarding comrade John Carlos.

Can't wait for the season to start so we can hopefully focus on basketball instead of anti American filth like John Carlos and his bud Splits.

[spurslegacy]

https://youtu.be/P9QsbTqlv3k?list=PLGYlBtZwnJfDf9BpWalx-Gui6NgVMH_Xu

here's a quote for you ChumpDumper:
"[Pop] has this natural intuition of what guys will go the extra mile. what guys will give their heart and their soul... and are more about buying into a process than ME. What can I receive, what can I get..."


Well, post some relevant quotes and inform us all.

I'll wait.

[FromWayDowntown]

WHAAAA???? insistence that his players are stupid people? huh?? no i think the reason he brought john carlos was exactly the opposite. because they COULD understand his message (except for Boban - he no understand nothing - surry). inflexibility over time? yeah cuz they never changed their offensive schemes over the course of two decades with scores of different players of yes, diverse backgrounds (glad you at least picked that up). look up David West and HIS "PC run amok" - he's also been a social activist/warrior for many years now. maybe you guys should figure out a different team to like. how about dallas? or the lakers? i hear they have nick young AND lou williams :p: #feelthebern

Blue text on SpursTalk indicates sarcasm.

[TheDoctor]

Who gets defensive about being called an "angry" "overreacting" dude?

1. An angry overreacting dude

[spurslegacy]

Birn, ironically your penguin of a vice President Dick Cheney in 1994 said:

"Once you got to Iraq and took it over, took down Saddam Hussein’s government, then what are you going to put in its place? That’s a very volatile part of the world, and if you take down the central government of Iraq, you could very easily end up seeing pieces of Iraq fly off: part of it, the Syrians would like to have to the west, part of it — eastern Iraq — the Iranians would like to claim, they fought over it for eight years. In the north you’ve got the Kurds, and if the Kurds spin loose and join with the Kurds in Turkey, then you threaten the territorial integrity of Turkey."
<em>
https://youtu.be/6BEsZMvrq-I


HAH. and then eight years later, he lies to the American people (about Saddam's connection to 9/11 and his possession of WMD's) to force us into the exact quagmire that he so aggressively warned us of. The war criminals Bush and Cheney (who also set the timetable for US troop withdrawal) gave us ISIS by invading and occupying a sovereign nation for 13 years, and toppling that secular dictatorship (that the US had supported with billions of dollars of financial and military aid for decades) and creating the power vacuum. Try actually learning history instead of watching FoxNews and Breitbart.com all day Mr. Birn - you are an ignorant fool and yes it very much sounds like you are a racist and a bigot. Go start watching the Rockets or the Lakers - you do not belong as any part of the Spurs fan family.



No they aren't part of the intolerance in that part of the world. The destabilization of the secular nations was due to the withdrawal of our security forces in the region thanks to Obama and Kerry. Once we left, isis was created and the rest is history.

Thursday can't get here fast enough. I prefer to talk basketball in all honesty. However, this issue with Carlos really got under my skin.

[m>s]

i figured you'd want to be near the biggest supply of bandaids, icepacks and soothing balms after i'm done with you
Yeah you're not the first internet tough guy, the last one didn't fly so well who's next

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Why do I think about the guy who kidnapped Ted when reading a Birn post:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWlbb5o-cws

[Othyus Lalanne]

how do people not realize that of all the hundreds of iterations of NBA teams in the last two decades, the Spurs have always been the team closest to socialist ideals. the sacrifice and lack of ego from every individual player for the team, the equal distribution of minutes and touches and cash, the family atmosphere that extends well beyond the floor, and well beyond basketball - that's how you have a successful organization. you care for them. you treat them like actual human beings, not slaves to their owners. this is what pop has been preaching since he got here, whether you're too much of an ignorant redneck to realize it or not. #feelthebern #notforthebillionaires

What is socialist about treating people well? It's all about getting the max amount of of championships at the end of the day (profit). It's ridiculous to say you cannot have a great bball team based around jerks. Bulls, Lakers etc There is nothing inherently left wing about the way Pop treats players.