3rd GOP Debate on CNBC

[DMX7]

Lindsey Graham looks like a mad man out there.

[boutons_deux]

Jindal On His State's Big Deficit: I'll Do For America What I Did For Louisiana!
Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal (R) said at Wednesday's GOP undercard debate he would "absolutely" bring his state's no-taxes-at-all-costs budget approach to the federal government, even after moderator John Harwood pointed out it led to Louisiana's $1.6 billion deficit.
"When you came into office with a budget surplus in the state of Louisiana, now years later the state legislature faced a $1.6 billion budget gap and the Republican State Treasurer called one of your approaches to that problem 'Nonsense on a stick,'" Harwood said. "Are you going to do for the federal budget what you did for the Louisiana budget?"

"Absolutely, John," Jindal said, before bragging about the 30,000 state jobs that had been cut under his tenure. He went on to claim that his budget policies lead to economic growth and job creation.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/jindal-deficit-lousiana-debate?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+tpm-news+%28TPMNews%29

[hater]

Lindsey Graham looks like a mad man out there.

He sounds gay as shit to me. That nigga gay?

I'm 100% sure he's gay. Even when he said "I'm your commander in chief" he sounded like a faggot in a gay movie tbh

[Michael Jordan.]

:lol this debate.

[Warlord23]

This is what happens to a political party which is based on a coalition of the rich and the stupid: the puppets of the rich need to act stupid in public.

[boutons_deux]

When any Republican candidate is asked a serious question that they can’t answer, they scream media bias and crumble into a puddle of tears.

Ted Cruz was asked if his opposition to the budget deal was not the kind of problem solver Americans want.Cruz answered:

Let me just say something at the outset. The questions that have been asked at this debate illustrate why the American people don’t trust the media.

When Rubio was asked about calls for him to resign because he missing so many Senate votes

It’s actually evidence of the bias that exists in the American media today

When Republicans get asked a tough question, it is media bias.

Rubio was asked why he missed votes, and it is media bias.

Ben Carson and Donald Trump were asked why their numbers on their tax plans don’t add up, and Republicans scream media bias.

Ted Cruz is asked if bipartisan compromise shows that he is not the kind of leader that America is looking for, and he yells media bias.

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/10/28/republicans-fall-cnbc-debate-scream-media-bias-asked-hard-questions.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+politicususa%2FfJAl+%28Politi cus+USA+%29

[Clipper Nation]

Another debate, another Trump win.

[JoeChalupa]

Rubio, Cruz, Graham, Carson delivered the best lines of the night. The others were just blah, blah, blah. Christie did get in some good ones too. My bad. After Trump and Ben drop out...and they will...I see Rubio and Cruz having a great path to the nomination.

[Jacob1983]

Cruz cracked me up with his cage match rant and offering the CNBC douche pot brownies. Hilarious shit.

[Michael Jordan.]

Rubio, Cruz, Graham, Carson delivered the best lines of the night. The others were just blah, blah, blah. Christie did get in some good ones too. My bad. After Trump and Ben drop out...and they will...I see Rubio and Cruz having a great path to the nomination.

Carson has no idea what the hell he is talking about. Cruz is a dumbfuck. And Rubio cried the whole time about the liberal media

[pgardn]

Some of those questions were intended for fireworks and had nothing to do with policy.
CNBC looking for ratings... Go figure.
The question to Huckabee giving him a chance to use his "moral authority" over Trump was hilarious. And Huckabee took the sacrifice bunt. Sorry CNBC.

[boutons_deux]

Cruz is a dumbfuck.

nope, Cruz is very smart, very articulate, which makes his rousing the rabble with ridiculous lies, propaganda, bullshit demagoguery all the more evil. He knows exactly what he's doing and understands his dumbfuck supporters (esp in TX) very well. Thanks, Texians!

[Spurminator]

Ted Cruz is a robot.

[boutons_deux]

Fact checking the Republican debate

BC aired two GOP presidential debates on Wednesday: a prime-time event starring 11 candidates and an earlier debate featuring four second-tier contenders, based on an average of recent polls.

The following are some of the most notable claims, culled from a lengthier list, available online, and fact-checked.

==============

"92 percent of the jobs lost in Barack Obama's first term were to women."

- Carly Fiorina

Fiorina, the former business executive who served as a surrogate for Mitt Romney during his 2012 presidential run, recycles a misleading talking point from that unsuccessful campaign - but oddly, she never double-checked the math. The Romney campaign calculated these figures by comparing the decline in the number of all non-farm employees from January 2009 to March 2012 with the decline in jobs held by women in that period.

While the statistic was technically correct for one month in 2012 - about three years into Obama's first term - it quickly was dropped by Romney's campaign because newer economic data made it obsolete.

In the debate, Fiorina claimed that this statistic was true for Obama's first term. But by the time he took the oath of office a second time, his jobs record was a net winner, both for men and women. So this claim is utterly wrong.

=========

"The socialist [Sen. Bernie Sanders] says they're going to pay for everything and give you everything for free, except they don't tell you they're going to raise your taxes to 90 percent to do it."

- Chris Christie

This claim by the New Jersey governor is false, although it has increasingly emerged as a GOP talking point. Sanders, an independent from Vermont who is seeking the Democratic presidential nomination, has not yet released a tax plan but has denied repeatedly that he would increase taxes from the current marginal rate of 39.6 percent to 90 percent. (The marginal rate is what you pay on each additional dollar earned.)

The United States had a marginal tax rate of 90 percent during the administration of Dwight D. Eisenhower, and then John F. Kennedy reduced it to 70 percent. But such rates would still not take 90 percent of any person's income.

====

"My record was one of cutting taxes each and every year. You don't have to guess about it, because I already have a record [cutting] $19 billion in taxes."
- Jeb Bush

The former Florida governor repeatedly claims that he cut $19 billion in taxes over his eight years in office, but that is quite misleading. This refers to cumulative state revenue changes as a result of state and federal decisions, and it includes revenue changes from tax and non-tax legislative actions during his tenure as governor.

Moreover, this $19 billion figure includes revenue the state would have received if the federal estate tax credit had not been phased out. There were some states that levied new state taxes to balance out the phaseout of the federal estate tax. Bush didn't fight the estate tax repeal. But that's certainly not the same as actively "cutting" those tax revenues from the state budget.

=====

"For the first time in 35 years, more businesses are closing than starting."
- Marco Rubio

The senator from Florida is referring to a report published in 2014 by the Brookings Institution that studied Census Bureau data called Business Dynamic Statistics. Brookings analysts tracked data back to 1978 and found that starting in 2008, business deaths exceeded business births.

But note that this started happening seven years ago, while Rubio makes it sound as if it is a new development.

===========

"I went into Ohio, where you had an $8 billion hole and now we have a $2 billion surplus. We're up 347,000 jobs. When I was in Washington . . . we cut taxes and we had a $5 trillion projected surplus when I left. That's hard work."
- John Kasich

These are Kasich's go-to claims about his record as Ohio governor and former chairman of the House Budget Committee. But some of his figures lack context.

The $8 billion figure reflects the breadth of the budget imbalance that Kasich's administration faced when he took office (the actual figure is $7.7 billion). But the projection did not end up being as high, and the actual shortfall was decreased by hundreds of millions of dollars.

Kasich's $2 billion figure and jobs numbers largely check out.

Kudos also to Kasich for clarifying that the $5 trillion surplus was a projection, not an actual surplus, when he left Congress in 2000. The figure he uses was a projected, 10-year surplus - but it didn't end up materializing, because of a slower economy, tax cuts and increased government spending after 9/11 in the years after Kasich left Washington.

==========

"Social Security is going to be insolvent in seven to eight years."
- Christie

The New Jersey governor significantly misstates the date for when Social Security's trust funds will be depleted; that will not happen for another 20 years (and even then, Social Security can pay partial benefits).


==========

"We've lost 2 million jobs - 2 million jobs - under this administration in manufacturing."
- Rick Santorum

The former senator from Pennsylvania is wrong. Manufacturing took a huge hit during the Great Recession, so 2 million jobs were lost between December 2007 and June 2009, the official length of the recession, according to government statistics. But the recession began a year before Obama took office.

Meanwhile, from those depths, manufacturing has slowly crawled its way back. From the start of Obama's presidency, there are about 250,000 fewer manufacturing jobs, so Santorum is off by a factor of eight. Still, manufacturing jobs are about 1.4 million fewer than the start of the recession.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-fact-check-republican-debate-20151028-story.html

[boutons_deux]

8 Lies, Distortions and Misrepresentations From the Third GOP Debate

The debates took place in an alternate reality, where facts are made up on the spot.

1. The fake “forced...socialism” of Obamacare.

Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal (R-LA) said that the Democrats “forced Obamacare and socialism down our throats.” That ignores the fact that the Affordable Care Act is far from socialist; it was based on a plan implemented by Republican Mitt Romney in his state, and mirrors a proposal (http://americablog.com/2013/10/original-1989-document-heritage-foundation-created-obamacares-individual-mandate.html) from the conservative Heritage Foundation. After all, Obamacare is based on expanding care through private health insurance plans. It's worth noting that we do have socialism in our system; the Veterans Administration and Medicare, and Americans love both.

2. Retelling the myth of Ronald Reagan and the USSR.
Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) claimed that the Russians wouldn't be in Ukraine if Ronald Reagan were president. The problem is, during the entirety of Reagan's tenure, the Russians were in Ukraine, under the auspices (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Soviet_Socialist_Republic) of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic.

3. The U.S. has the highest corporate tax rate.
Jindal claimed the U.S. has the world's highest corporate tax rate. On paper, the U.S. rate is actually the third-highest (http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/sep/09/eric-bolling/does-us-have-highest-corporate-tax-rate-free-world/), and its effective tax rates—meaning what firms actually pay in practice—is among the lowest (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/03/30/456005/reminder-corporate-taxes-very-low/) of developed countries.

4. Boeing came to South Carolina because of low taxes.

Graham went on a tear about high taxes and how Boeing was “welcome” in South Carolina due to the state's tax environment. Actually, South Carolina effectively bribed the company (http://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeings-charleston-tax-breaks-top-800m-60-years-and-counting-for-airplane-tax-break/) with hundreds of millions of dollars in tax breaks. Boeing didn't come for low taxes in general; it came because the state gave it a special handout most citizens and firms do not get.

5. Cutting taxes will magically fund the government.
Ben Carson was challenged on his flat tax plan, which would leave (http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/ben-carsons-budget-plan-makes-absolutely-no-sense) the government trillions of dollars short. Considering that Carson is not calling for reducing government spending by 50 to 75 percent, there is no way his plan could fund the operations of the government.

6. Paul Ryan's “fiscal discipline.”

Although Ryan was not on the stage, moderator John Harwood tried to contrast his “reputation for fiscal discipline” with that of Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY). The only thing is, Ryan's reputation is entirely media-driven. In reality, his much-touted budget plans would both spike federal debt (http://www.cbpp.org/research/the-ryan-budgets-radical-priorities) and reduce social spending.

7. Lie: Social Security is going bankrupt.

Chris Christie repeatedly tried to paint a picture of a depleted Social Security fund, with claims that the government “stole” everything out of the funds and the program won't be there for seniors. The reality is that Social Security is funded for decades (http://www.nbcnews.com/id/41293592/ns/politics-more_politics/t/social-security-fund-will-be-drained/), and a minor change (http://www.npr.org/2013/12/05/249068448/to-fix-social-security-some-democrats-want-to-lift-wage-cap) to the tax cap would keep it funded through most of the 21st century.

8. Rand Paul: raising the retirement age is the “only way” to “fix” Medicare.

Rand Paul claimed there is no alternative to hiking the retirement age, claiming Medicare will not exist unless this happens—with support from other candidates such as Christie. As Dean Baker and other economists have shown (http://truth-out.org/archive/component/k2/item/62769:dean-baker--the-medicare-and-social-security-hoax), if the U.S. could get its health care costs in line with all of its peer countries, Medicare would be fully sustainable.

As usual, the third GOP debate didn't have much grounding in reality, but it did offer an entertaining look at an alternate universe.

http://www.alternet.org/8-lies-distortions-and-misrepresentations-third-gop-debate?akid=13612.187590.OY2MFG&rd=1&src=newsletter1044892&t=2

[boutons_deux]

CARSON: His proposed flat-rate tax, which would have everyone pay an income tax rate of about 15 percent, "works out very well" in budget terms because it would spark enough economic growth to offset the lower rate.


THE FACTS: Carson says his proposed tax would not increase the budget deficit because he would tax the entire economic output of the U.S. — the gross domestic product — plus corporate income and capital gains.

Carson has not laid out a detailed plan, so it is difficult to measure how it would affect revenues or the economy. But based on what he said, he's double counting because corporate revenues are part of the GDP.

A tax rate of 15 percent would be a huge tax cut for the wealthy. The top income tax rate for individuals is now 39.6 percent. The corporate tax rate for corporations is 35 percent.

To help offset the rate cuts, Carson said he would "get rid of all the deductions and all the loopholes." That's a bold proposal, considering how popular many tax breaks are, including deductions for interest on home mortgages and charitable contributions, as well as exemptions for health insurance and retirement savings.
___

TRUMP: "I'm putting up 100 percent of my own money."

THE FACTS: No, he's not.

Of $3.9 million raised for his campaign in the latest fundraising quarter, only $100,000 came from his own pocket. That was one major revelation from the latest batch of presidential fundraising reports, filed Oct. 15 with the Federal Election Commission (http://m.sfgate.com/search/?action=search&channel=news%2Fpolitics&inlineLink=1&searchindex=gsa&query=%22Federal+Election+Commission%22).

That's a drastic shift from his springtime fundraising report, when he loaned his campaign nearly all of the $1.9 million it had.
___

CHRISTIE: FBI Director James Comey (http://m.sfgate.com/search/?action=search&channel=news%2Fpolitics&inlineLink=1&searchindex=gsa&query=%22James+Comey%22) said police officers are holding back "because of a lack of support from politicians like the president of the United States."

THE FACTS: That's not what Comey said.

In a speech last week about an alarming rise in crime, Comey said some officers feel under siege because of the spread of viral videos taken by young people with cell phones. Comey said he'd heard about one police official who told his force "their political leadership has no tolerance for a viral video."
But Comey never mentioned Obama or blamed politicians for failing to support police. And Comey made clear he didn't have data to back up his gut impression.
Christie also said when Obama was asked to speak about the issue, he declined to support police. In fact, Obama gave a firm defense of police on Tuesday, telling a police chiefs convention that "this country is safer because of your efforts."
___

BUSH: "Marco, when you signed up for this, this was a six-year term, and you should be showing up for work."

RUBIO: "Barack Obama (http://m.sfgate.com/search/?action=search&channel=news%2Fpolitics&inlineLink=1&searchindex=gsa&query=%22Barack+Obama%22) missed 60 or 70 percent of his votes" when running for president while he was in the Senate.

THE FACTS: Bush correctly cited Rubio's spotty attendance record in the Senate since running for president, but ignored the fact that this is common when someone in public office runs a White House campaign —and previous candidates were absent far more often. Bush himself is free to run for president as he pleases, because he doesn't have a day job from which to be absent.

For his part, Rubio didn't offer a fair comparison when comparing his Senate voting rate with Obama's.

From Oct. 27, 2014, to Oct. 26, 2015, Rubio was absent for 26 percent of Senate votes, a worse attendance record than other senators running for president, according to an analysis by GovTrack.us, which tracks congressional voting records.

But in a comparable period in the 2008 race — from Oct. 23, 2006, to Oct. 22, 2007, Obama was absent for 29 percent of votes, a bit more than Rubio's absences, but not as much more as Rubio charged. Republican John McCain (http://m.sfgate.com/search/?action=search&channel=news%2Fpolitics&inlineLink=1&searchindex=gsa&query=%22John+McCain%22) was absent for 51 percent of Senate votes in that period.

Both Obama and McCain went on to miss an even bigger share of Senate votes as the election progressed — an expected development bound to be seen again in 2016.
___

CHRISTIE: The federal government has "stolen" the Social Security taxes paid by workers and spent it on other things. "It isn't their money any more... It got stolen from them. It's not theirs anymore. The government stole it and spent it a long time ago."

THE FACTS: The money is not stolen, it's borrowed.

Over the past 30 years, Social Security has collected about $2.7 trillion more in payroll taxes than it has paid in benefits. By law, the Treasury Department (http://m.sfgate.com/search/?action=search&channel=news%2Fpolitics&inlineLink=1&searchindex=gsa&query=%22Treasury+Department%22) has invested the surplus in U.S. Treasury (http://m.sfgate.com/search/?action=search&channel=news%2Fpolitics&inlineLink=1&searchindex=gsa&query=%22U.S.+Treasury%22) bonds.

Over that same time period, the federal government has run budget deficits in all but a few years. To finance the deficits, the government has borrowed money, from other government agencies as well as public debt markets.

The money from Social Security has been spent, but Social Security holds Treasury bonds worth $2.7 trillion, backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government. Saying the money has been stolen assumes that the federal government will not honor the bonds.

Social Security has been paying out more in benefits than it collects in taxes since 2010. The program has been able to pay full benefits because the federal government has honored the bonds.
___

SEN. TED CRUZ: "If you look at a single mom buying groceries, she sees hamburger prices have gone up nearly 40 percent. She sees her cost of electricity going up. She sees her health insurance going up. And loose money is one of the major problems."

THE FACTS: Americans may be facing many economic challenges, but rising inflation isn't one of them. And "loose money," a way of describing the Federal Reserve's low interest rate policies, isn't to blame for expensive hamburgers.

Beef prices rose 21 percent in January of this year compared with a year earlier. That reflected a Midwest drought that had caused some cattle ranchers to cull their herds. Beef prices have since settled down and were up just 1 percent in September from a year earlier.

Electricity costs have actually fallen 0.4 percent during that period. Those are national averages, so some local areas will have different figures. Overall, inflation has remained below even the Fed's 2 percent target for the past three years. In fact, the government's primary inflation measure, the consumer price index, has actually been unchanged in the past 12 months.
___

TRUMP: Asked about his criticism of Rubio for his support for increasing the number of high-skilled foreign workers given visas to work in the U.S. — calling Rubio Facebook CEO "Mark Zuckerburg's personal senator" — Trump denied ever making the comment. "I never said that. I never said that," he said.

THE FACTS: He did say it, on his own website. Trump's immigration policy calls for a different approach — raising the prevailing wage for the jobs that attract high-skilled foreign workers, in hopes that they'll be filled by more Americans.

Trump's policy statement said doing that "will improve the number of black, Hispanic and female workers in Silicon Valley who have been passed over in favor of the H-1B program. Mark Zuckerberg's personal Senator, Marco Rubio (http://m.sfgate.com/search/?action=search&channel=news%2Fpolitics&inlineLink=1&searchindex=gsa&query=%22Marco+Rubio%22), has a bill to triple H-1Bs that would decimate women and minorities."
___

SEN. RAND PAUL: The new budget agreement "will explode the deficit, it will allow President Obama to borrow unlimited amounts of money."

THE FACTS: The agreement allows $80 billion more spending over the next two years, which is only a small addition to the $3.67 trillion the government spends every year.

The government's annual budget deficit has declined to $439 billion, about 2.5 percent of GDP, below the average for the past 40 years.

Overall, whatever its faults, most economists have responded to this week's budget deal between Congress and the White House with a sigh of relief. The agreement, approved by the House earlier Wednesday, sets funding levels and extends the government's borrowing limit for two more years, thereby taking the threat of a government shutdown and debt default off the table.

A 2013 budget fight led to a 16-day partial government shutdown that was widely blamed by most economists for sharp drops in consumer and business confidence that dragged on the economy.
___

GEORGE PATAKI: "Hillary Clinton (http://m.sfgate.com/search/?action=search&channel=news%2Fpolitics&inlineLink=1&searchindex=gsa&query=%22Hillary+Clinton%22) put a server, an unsecure server, in her home as secretary of state. We have no doubt that that was hacked, and that state secrets are out there to the Iranians, the Russians, the Chinese and others."

THE FACTS: The former New York governor, speaking in the undercard debate, exaggerated what's actually known about what happened to the emails of Clinton, the Democratic front-runner for her party's presidential nomination. While Clinton's email server was poorly configured and therefore more susceptible to hacking, there is no evidence of intrusion.

The FBI is studying the server, which was subjected to a phishing attack by Russian-linked hackers while she was secretary of state. It's not known whether she clicked on any attachments, which would have exposed her account. Her account was also apparently the subject of cyberattacks originating in China, South Korea and Germany after she left office in early 2013. Determining whether a hack was sponsored by a nation, rather than just originating from that country, is notoriously difficult.

http://m.sfgate.com/news/politics/article/AP-FACT-CHECK-The-Republican-debaters-and-the-6597069.php

[DMX7]

CARSON: His proposed flat-rate tax, which would have everyone pay an income tax rate of about 15 percent, "works out very well" in budget terms because it would spark enough economic growth to offset the lower rate.


THE FACTS: Carson says his proposed tax would not increase the budget deficit because he would tax the entire economic output of the U.S. — the gross domestic product — plus corporate income and capital gains.

Carson has not laid out a detailed plan, so it is difficult to measure how it would affect revenues or the economy. But based on what he said, he's double counting because corporate revenues are part of the GDP.

A tax rate of 15 percent would be a huge tax cut for the wealthy. The top income tax rate for individuals is now 39.6 percent. The corporate tax rate for corporations is 35 percent.

To help offset the rate cuts, Carson said he would "get rid of all the deductions and all the loopholes." That's a bold proposal, considering how popular many tax breaks are, including deductions for interest on home mortgages and charitable contributions, as well as exemptions for health insurance and retirement savings.

http://m.sfgate.com/news/politics/article/AP-FACT-CHECK-The-Republican-debaters-and-the-6597069.php

When he first said that, I was thinking the same thing. Even this guy's most simple calculations have multi-billion dollar errors.

[Sportcamper]

Trump is so darn entertaining…He has so frazzled and dismantled Old Jeb aka The Low T Candidate; to the point where Jeb can’t take it & has decided to go for easier targets…Little Marco Rubio’s Senate Voting record…Then Rubio smacked him back so hard! You are only saying that because we are running for the same position and someone told you that it would be a good idea…LMAO! :lmao

[Sportcamper]

Christie gets honorable mention…Do you want to answer the question or do you want me to answer the question?…I got to say that this is extremely rude even by New Jersey standards…

[DMX7]

I hope Trump takes on Rubio soon.

[boutons_deux]

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[boutons_deux]

The broken logic of last night’s GOP debate: How conservative ideology just tore itself apart

The GOP debate on Wednesday night was a largely snippy affair, with candidates accusing debate host CNBC of making things up until moderators pointed out — as just one example — that candidates had made the same claims on their own websites.

But there was a bright spot:

Basically all of the GOP contenders rested on one particular set of assumptions, and the logical conclusion of those assumptions offers a plan for eliminating some truly horrible things in life, like American military adventurism and Ohio State football.

Candidate after candidate argued we need to get rid of government.

When asked whether government should prevent profiteering pharmaceutical companies, Dr. Ben Carson admitted some companies are not considering patients, but went on to argue that costs come not from greed, but from regulations: “Every single regulation costs in terms of goods and services,” which hurts real people he argued, more than companies who rip off customers.

Government employee Rand Paul said “I want government so small I can barely see it,” which would be easier to do if we eliminated 100 Senators and their staff, including Paul’s. Jeb Bush, the son and brother of former presidents, claimed that DC politicians continue to make things worse.

Two candidates even argued that government caused consolidation in private companies.

In the Kiddie Table debate earlier in the evening, Rick Santorum claimed ObamaCare caused insurance companies to consolidate. While he’s right that the insurance market is dominated by a few players, that was true long before ObamaCare.

Santorum claimed to be a lot less worried about consolidation in the watery beer market (http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2015/09/16/sabmiller-takeover-approach/32488403/) because, “There’s no town in American anymore that doesn’t have a brewery.” Given that alcohol is one of the most regulated markets, it’s odd that government involvement hasn’t created dangerous consolidation in bad beer.

Meanwhile, Carly Fiorina claimed that banks consolidate because they are afraid of government. Given that Fiorina herself contributed to the consolidation of the computer industry — but has always given market-based reasons, and not fear of the federal government, for her decision to merge HP with Compaq — that claim is particularly incredible.

Chris Christie, for his part, was outraged that various governments, mostly states, were considering regulating fantasy football companies Fan Duel and DraftKings, and that moderators might ask about regulating it. Christie, the governor of a state with a shrinking gambling industry, made the claim shortly after

Jeb Bush bragged about being 7-0 in his fantasy football league, which was probably Bush’s most successful moment of the night.

Ultimately, though, these candidates were making an argument about the efficacy of government, an argument that is particularly odd from people auditioning to run the entire federal government.

“Every time government gets involved in something,” Fiorina claimed. “It gets worse.”

If Fiorina’s claim, that every time — every single time! — the government gets involved in something it gets worse, then clearly the government should get out of the business of making war, right?

It sounds like a good idea, because government involvement in making war will only make the ability for the U.S. to wage war worse. And without the half a trillion dollars (http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/pentagon/2015/10/27/budget-deal-defense/74678048/) the government spends on war each year, we’d probably have a lot fewer wars.

Of course, Fiorina, who’s a hawk, doesn’t really mean that. But it betrays the inherent illogic of her claim.

But, as someone writing from Michigan, there was actually a bid for privatizing government that would clearly be an improvement. Ohio Governor John Kasich described a number of things his administration privatized. He described that Ohio State University shouldn’t be in the parking business and shouldn’t be in the dining business. His government privatized both those things, making a killing off their sale to private entities.

The logical consequence of that, of course, would be for Ohio State to privatize some bigger ticket items … such as their #1 ranked football team. Sell it to a billionaire. Pay the athletes. Make OSU play the Cincinnati Bengals and Cleveland Browns.

Think of the revenue that would bring in for the state! What about the football business, Governor? Willing to privatize that?

Probably, Gov. Kasich would object to such a plan, given his supportive comments (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0H1L_8fPHY) about OSU coach Urban Meyer, who has orchestrated the current squad’s success.

Probably, Kasich would insist that OSU football should remain a public good for all in Ohio to share.

It turns out, there are things, like football and war, that even the biggest hater of government — especially the biggest haters of government — wouldn’t want to outsource to private companies.

But none of the candidates on Wednesday night reflected awareness of the absurd implications of their views.

Fiorina and Kasich — really, all of the GOP candidates — claim to be ready to sell off every last bit of the public good. Let’s hope they do it before Michigan’s two best college teams face OSU in the coming weeks, and even better, before the government kills more Americans in another ill-considered war.

http://www.salon.com/2015/10/29/the_broken_logic_of_last_nights_gop_debate_how_con servative_ideology_just_tore_itself_apart/

[Sportcamper]

LMAO@ boutons_deux...:lol...Those are all great...Poor Jeb & his creepy warm kiss...:lmao

[spurraider21]

The problem with the party is that they think the answer to their problem is to be MORE conservative and to get more conservatives to go out and vote. They need to get on with the times...

[DMX7]

Cruisin USA. That brings me way back.

[boutons_deux]

Just fucking "wow" from CarLie's alternative reality

Cornered Carly Fiorina turns hostile rather than explain why she lied during Wednesday’s GOP debate

CNN’s New Day host Alisyn Camerota, confronted Fiorina on Thursday with evidence a data figure she gave during the debate wasn’t accurate, and Fiorina responded rather nastily, in a video of the exchange posted by Media Matters (http://mediamatters.org/video/2015/10/29/cnns-alisyn-camerota-calls-out-carly-fiorina-on/206492).

During the debate, Fiorina said, “92% of the jobs lost during Barack Obama’s first term belonged to women.”

Camerota pointed out the fact checkers at the Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/10/28/fact-checking-the-third-round-of-gop-debates/) traced that figure back to Mitt Romney’s 2012 run. Romney’s campaign used it briefly but dropped it when further data came to light showing it to be inaccurate.

Fiorina didn’t like to be told that, apparently.

“Well, first of all, it’s The Washington Post that said I wasn’t a secretary. So from my point of view, they have no credibility, honestly,” Fiorina retorted.

The Post didn’t say Fiorina was not a secretary (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/09/25/carly-fiorinas-bogus-secretary-to-ceo-career-trajectory-fact-checker-biography/), but instead highlighted that her privileged upbringing and elite education were left out of Fiorina’s “rags to riches, only-in-America” campaign story of being a simple secretary who would later become CEO of a tech company.

Fiorina then became testy with Camerota.

“Here’s another statistic, Alisyn, if you don’t like that one, the extreme poverty rate among women is at the highest level ever recorded,” she said. “The number of women living in poverty is at the highest level in 20 years. And every single policy that Hillary Clinton is now proposing, demonstrably, we have evidence that suggests it causes women to be fired, not to be hired. The record’s very clear on this.”

It has been a longstanding historical fact that far predates Obama’s election that women (https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/women/report/2008/10/08/5103/the-straight-facts-on-women-in-poverty/) and people of color (http://www.irp.wisc.edu/faqs/faq3.htm) suffer higher rates of poverty than white men.

Camerota then asked Fiorina if she continues to stand by a claim she made in the first debate that now-discredited videos produced by an anti-abortion group showed a live, squirming fetus being dissected by Planned Parenthood staffers who were harvesting its organs. It has been confirmed that no such footage exists.

Fiorina had said, “As regards [to] Planned Parenthood, anyone who has watched this videotape, I dare Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama to watch these tapes,” she said. “Watch a fully formed fetus on the table, its heart beating, its legs kicking while someone says we have to keep it alive to harvest its brain.”

According to Time Magazine (http://time.com/4053578/abortion-carly-fiorina-planned-parenthood/), what does exist is an extremely graphic video, procured by another anti-abortion activist Gregg Cunningham, of a fetus being extracted and placed into a metal bowl. It at times appears to move. There is no sound to the footage and Cunningham refuses to say where it came from. There is no evidence it came from Planned Parenthood. The footage shows no evidence of attempts to harvest its brain.

“Wow, Alisyn, I can’t believe we’re having this conversation, honestly,” Fiorina said. “It’s clear now, it’s very clear that Planned Parenthood is harvesting body parts. So clear that they had to announce that that they no longer take compensation for it. Honestly, this has been hashed and rehashed is there no other issue of economic import to the middle class in the United States of America that you’d like to talk about this morning?”

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/cornered-carly-fiorina-turns-hostile-rather-than-explain-why-she-lied-during-wednesdays-gop-debate/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29

Holy shit, that's one sicko bitch.

[boutons_deux]

21 Hilarious and WTF Moments From the GOP Debate

1. "If you want someone to grab a beer with, I may not be that guy. But if you want someone to drive you home, I'll get the job done." - Ted Cruz

2. "What is this, a French work week?" - Jeb Bush, attacking Marco Rubio about missing Senate votes

3. "I'll buy you a tequila. Or even some famous Colorado brownies." - Ted Cruz to moderator Carl Quintanilla

4. "Boy, am I good at solving debt problems. No one can solve them like me." - Donald Trump on filing for bankruptcy

5. "Find me a Democrat that is for cutting spending $10, I'll give them a warm kiss." - Jeb Bush

6. "I used it to pay off my student loans — and it's available on paperback if you're interested in buying it." - Marco Rubio on his $1 million book deal

7. "They shouldn't automatically assume that because you believe marriage is between one man and one woman, you're a homophobe." - Ben Carson

8. "I don't know. You people write this stuff." - Donald Trump, feigning ignorance about where moderator Becky Quick found his quote calling Marco Rubio "Mark Zuckerberg's personal senator." (It's on
his campaign website (https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform).)

9. "The Democrats have the ultimate super PAC — it's called the mainstream media." - Marco Rubio

10. "Drugs is one of the greatest scourges in this country." - John Kasich

11. "I like to be unpredictable." - Donald Trump on carrying a gun, sometimes

12. "I love Donald Trump. He's a good man. I'm wearing a Trump tie tonight." - Mike Huckabee

13. "We have $19 trillion in debt. We have people out of work. We have ISIS and Al Qaeda...And we're talking about fantasy football? Let people play. Who cares?" - Chris Christie

14. "Even in New Jersey, what you're doing is rude." - Chris Christie to moderator John Harwood

15. "It's your grandparents' fault for having too many damn kids." - Rand Paul on paying for Medicare

16. "I'm against anything that's bad for my mother." - Marco Rubio on entitlement reform

17. "I want a government so small I can barely see it." - Rand Paul

18. "When millions of Americans rose up against Obamacare, I was proud to lead that fight. When millions of Americans rose up against amnesty, I was proud to lead that fight. When millions of Americans rose up against Planned Parenthood, I was proud to lead that fight." - Ted Cruz

19. "I can assure you I am Hillary Clinton's worst nightmare." - Carly Fiorina :lol

20. "I negotiated it down to two hours so we can get the hell out of here." - Donald Trump on the debate's length

21. "I do not want to walk my five grandkids through the charred remains of America." - Mike Huckabee

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/21-hilarious-and-wtf-moments-from-the-gop-debate-20151028?utm_source=newsletter&utm_content=daily&utm_campaign=102915_16&utm_medium=email

[boutons_deux]

Likelihoood of Receiving the 2016 Republican Nomination (http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2015/10/likelihoood-of-receiving-the-2016-republican-nomination/)

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/nomination.png
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2015/10/likelihoood-of-receiving-the-2016-republican-nomination/

[DMX7]

I'll puke if Rubio gets it. I want Trump, but I can handle Kasich or Pataki.

[boutons_deux]

Wall St Fat Bastard dog whistling that Muslim Kenyan n!gg@ causing police deaths

Media Dismantle Gov. Christie's Lies About The Ferguson Effect

Media outlets refuted Gov. Chris Christie's (R-NJ) claims that a lack of support from President Obama and increased scrutiny of police are leading to an increase in crime, explaining that "2015 is actually on pace to have near-record low levels of deadly violence against police."

The so-called "Ferguson Effect," that Christie alluded to, is a right-wing media myth that has used flawed or cherry-picked data to link supposed increases in crime rates to the increased scrutiny of police following episodes of police brutality and has been roundly debunked by experts

http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/10/29/media-dismantle-gov-christies-lies-about-the-ba/206505

[boutons_deux]

Marco Rubio's blatant lie about his personal finances should worry you (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/29/1442388/-Marco-Rubio-s-blatant-lie-about-his-personal-finances-should-worry-you)

A crucial part of Marco Rubio's big debate victory came directly out of his ability to lie with conviction and an innocent look in his eye. Not just about his tax plan (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/29/1442183/-Marco-Rubio-misdirects-and-misleads-on-his-tax-plan), but about his own personal finances (http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/tale-two-rubios). Here it is:


Senator Rubio, you yourself have said that you’ve had issues. You have a lack of bookkeeping skills. You accidentally inter-mingled campaign money with your personal money. You faced foreclosure on a second home that you bought. And just last year, you liquidated a $68,000 retirement fund. That’s something that cost you thousands of dollars in taxes and penalties. In terms of all of that, it raises the question whether you have the maturity and wisdom to lead this $17 trillion economy. What do you say?RUBIO: Well, you just – you just listed a litany of discredited attacks from Democrats and my political opponents, and I’m not gonna waste 60 seconds detailing them all.


Discredited attacks? As Florida Republican Joe Scarborough said Thursday morning (http://www.mediaite.com/tv/scarborough-marco-rubio-flat-out-lied-to-the-american-people-during-debate/):


“Marco just flat-out lied to the American people, there,” he continued. “And I was stunned that the moderators didn’t stop there and go, ‘Wait a second, these are court records. What are you talking about?’”

There are two issues here. One is the substance of the question: Rubio and his "scandal plagued"-doesn't-begin-to-describe-it friend, former Rep. David Rivera, only last summer sold the house (http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/marco-rubios-house-horrors) which had at one point been in foreclosure. That is a fact, not a "discredited attack." And so on. The financial problems and mismanagement detailed in the question were accurate, so make of his personal finances what you will.But whatever you make of Rubio's personal finances,

pay attention to his lying.

Because he didn't flinch, he didn't equivocate.

He seemed sincere and a little wounded as he dismissed that list of true facts as "a litany of discredited attacks from Democrats and my political opponents" and said he wouldn't address them because it would "waste 60 seconds."

Sincere, wounded ... and lying.

Maybe you don't have a problem with a presidential candidate having faced foreclosure on the second house he co-owned with another scandal-plagued politician. Maybe you don't have a problem with any of Rubio's financial missteps, with the fact that the guy is clearly a terrible manager of his own money. But the lying should be a problem nonetheless.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/29/1442388/-Marco-Rubio-s-blatant-lie-about-his-personal-finances-should-worry-you?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dailykos%2Findex+%28Daily+Kos %29

[mingus]

Who cares what he does with his own money?

It's like calling out a cardiologists credibility for being overweight.

[Sportcamper]

If the data on Rubio is accurate I think that if he were a Democrat he would be the front runner…House banking scandal…Over 20 Democrats had a history of bouncing checks due to insufficient funds…Most politicians lie & cheat the system… Only the working middle class plays by the rules…

[boutons_deux]

Who cares what he does with his own money?

It's like calling out a cardiologists credibility for being overweight.

you fuckers always miss the point. It's not what he did with his money, it's that he LIED about it, felt he needed to hide what he did with his money. He's pretty stupid for thinking he could get away with it. He sounds pretty stupd on any subject, so he's the ideal Repug Useful Idiot.

[Sportcamper]

Did Bill Clinton ever lie?

[hater]

Who cares what he does with his own money?

It's like calling out a cardiologists credibility for being overweight.

Lmao this is dumb. If he foreclosed a house and cashed out his retirement that is a sign of being a real idiot especially being a US Senator :lol

If true he's a grade a moron :lol

[pgardn]

Lmao this is dumb. If he foreclosed a house and cashed out his retirement that is a sign of being a real idiot especially being a US Senator :lol

If true he's a grade a moron :lol

Then The Donald is in huge trouble. He was given millions and gone bankrupt.

[CosmicCowboy]

Lmao this is dumb. If he foreclosed a house and cashed out his retirement that is a sign of being a real idiot especially being a US Senator :lol

If true he's a grade a moron :lol

Not necessarily. Refinancing a house is a normal tool for personal finance. It's all about return on investment. Same with cashing out a retirement plan if the return on equity exceeds the penalty.

[boutons_deux]

repeat post, Rubio just another Billionaire Boy Toy

Billionaire Lifts Marco Rubio, Politically and Personally


http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/05/10/us/10BRAMANjp/10BRAMANjp-master675-v3.jpg

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/10/us/billionaire-lifts-marco-rubio-politically-and-personally.html

[CosmicCowboy]

you fuckers always miss the point. It's not what he did with his money, it's that he LIED about it, felt he needed to hide what he did with his money. He's pretty stupid for thinking he could get away with it. He sounds pretty stupd on any subject, so he's the ideal Repug Useful Idiot.

:lmao @ Boo calling ANYBODY else STUPID.

[boutons_deux]

Obamacare Performs Miracle Time Machine Destruction of Past Economy


http://www.motherjones.com/files/blog_fiorina_business_closures.jpg

In Wednesday's debate, CarLIE Fiorina said this: "We have 400,000 small businesses forming every year in this country....The bad news is, we have 470,000 going out of business every year. And why? They cite Obamacare."

it's from a 2014 Brookings study (http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/research/files/papers/2014/05/declining%20business%20dynamism%20litan/declining_business_dynamism_hathaway_litan.pdf) about business dynamism. Annotated chart below. So there we have it. Mystery solved. Small business closures have been rising steadily since Reagan was president, and in 2011 the number hit 470,000. And the reason they closed is because of Obamacare. Who would have guessed?

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/10/obamacare-performs-miracle-time-machine-destruction-past-economy

[boutons_deux]

CNN host smacks down GOP debate whining: CNBC asked the same questions as Fox News

Smerconish said the criticism was unfair.

“I’ve been going back through the transcript of the first debate, which was a Fox debate, the second debate, which was one of our own CNN debates, and then CNBC,” he told the hosts. “And I would submit to you that if you look at the questions only, there’s frankly not much of a difference between debates one, two or three, including Fox, which is, of course, the great oracle of the RNC.”

That’s not to say battles didn’t emerge between GOP candidates and Fox moderators, such as real estate mogul Donald Trump and Fox News host Megyn Kelly. Kelly had asked Trump why women should vote for him when he has a habit of making derogatory comments about women.

“Style matters,” moderator Chris Cuomo said. “And let’s not forget, Megyn Kelly was asking an appropriate question in terms of what Trump had said in the past. But how it came across wound up creating a combative dynamic.”

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/cnn-host-smacks-down-gop-debate-whining-cnbc-asked-the-same-questions-as-fox-news/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29

[boutons_deux]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDUFvLWl-Oc

[boutons_deux]

Springtime for Grifters

At one point during Wednesday’s Republican debate, Ben Carson (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/05/04/us/elections/ben-carson.html?inline=nyt-per) was asked about his involvement with Mannatech, a nutritional supplements company that makes outlandish claims about its products and has been forced to pay $7 million to settle a deceptive-practices lawsuit. The audience booed, and Mr. Carson denied being involved with the company. Both reactions tell you a lot about the driving forces behind modern American politics.

As it happens, Mr. Carson lied. He has indeed been deeply involved with Mannatech, and has done a lot to help promote its merchandise. PolitiFact quickly rated his claim (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/oct/29/ben-carson/debate-ben-carson-says-he-has-no-connection-mannat/) false, without qualification.

But the Republican base doesn’t want to hear about it, and the candidate apparently believes, probably correctly, that he can simply brazen it out. These days, in his party,

being an obvious grifter isn’t a liability, and may even be an asset.

And this doesn’t just go for outsider candidates like Mr. Carson and Donald Trump. Insider politicians like Marco Rubio are simply engaged in a different, classier kind of scam — and they are empowered in part by the way the grifters have defined respectability down.

(http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/30/opinion/springtime-for-grifters.html?rref=collection%2Fcolumn%2Fpaul-krugman&action=click&contentCollection=opinion&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection&_r=0#story-continues-3)About the grifters: Start with the lowest level, in which marketers use political affinity to sell get-rich-quick schemes, miracle cures, and suchlike. That’s the Carson phenomenon, and it’s just the latest example of a long tradition. As the historian Rick Perlstein documents (http://thebaffler.com/salvos/the-long-con), a “strategic alliance of snake-oil vendors and conservative true believers” goes back half a century. Direct-mail marketing using addresses culled from political campaigns has given way to email, but the game remains the same.

At a somewhat higher level are marketing campaigns more or less tied to what purports to be policy analysis. Right-wing warnings of imminent hyperinflation, coupled with demands that we return to the gold standard, were fanned by media figures like Glenn Beck, who used his show to promote Goldline (http://www.salon.com/2012/11/29/more_legal_trouble_for_beck_backed_goldline/), a firm selling gold coins and bars at, um, inflated prices.

Sure enough, Mr. Beck has been a vocal backer of Ted Cruz (http://www.politico.com/story/2015/03/glenn-beck-pray-for-ted-cruz-116328), who has made a return to gold one of his signature policy positions.

Oh, and former Congressman Ron Paul, who has spent decades warning of runaway inflation and is undaunted by its failure to materialize, is very much in the business of selling books (http://www.wsj.com/articles/ron-paul-ads-warn-of-financial-crisis-1432245027) and videos showing how you, too, can protect yourself from the coming financial disaster.

At a higher level still are operations that are in principle engaging in political activity, but mainly seem to be generating income for their organizers. Last week The Times published an investigative report (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/24/us/politics/conservative-pacs-turn-attack-on-gop-leaders-into-fund-raising-tool.html) on some political action committees raising money in the name of anti-establishment conservative causes. The report found that the bulk of the money these PACs raise ends up going to cover administrative costs and consultants’ fees, very little to their ostensible purpose.

For example, only 14 percent of what the Tea Party Leadership Fund spends is “candidate focused.”

You might think that such revelations would be politically devastating. But the targets of such schemes know, just know, that the liberal mainstream media can’t be trusted, that when it reports negative stories about conservative heroes it’s just out to suppress people who are telling the real truth. It’s a closed information loop, and can’t be broken.

And a lot of people live inside that closed loop. Current estimates say that Mr. Carson, Mr. Trump and Mr. Cruz together have the support of around 60 percent (http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-national-gop-primary) of Republican voters.
Furthermore, the success of the grifters has a profound effect on the whole party. As I said, it defines respectability down.

Consider Mr. Rubio, who has emerged as the leading conventional candidate thanks to Jeb Bush’s utter haplessness. There was a time when Mr. Rubio’s insistence that $6 trillion in tax cuts would somehow pay for themselves (http://www.vox.com/2015/10/6/9464559/marco-rubio-tax-plan) would have marked him as deeply unserious, especially given the way his party has been harping on the evils of budget deficits. Even George W. Bush, during the 2000 campaign, at least pretended to be engaged in conventional budgeting, handing back part of a projected budget surplus.

But the Republican base doesn’t care what the mainstream media says. Indeed, after Wednesday’s debate the Internet was full of claims that

John Harwood, one of the moderators, lied about Mr. Rubio’s tax plan. (He didn’t (http://www.newrepublic.com/article/123280/gops-grotesque-festival-lies).)

And in any case, Mr. Rubio sounds sensible compared to the likes of Mr. Carson and Mr. Trump. So there’s no penalty for his fiscal fantasies.

The point is that we shouldn’t ask whether the G.O.P. will eventually nominate someone in the habit of saying things that are demonstrably untrue, and counting on political loyalists not to notice.

The only question is what kind of scam it will be.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/30/opinion/springtime-for-grifters.html?rref=collection%2Fcolumn%2Fpaul-krugman&action=click&contentCollection=opinion&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection&_r=0

[Warlord23]

This article nicely summarizes how the GOP candidates and their base live in a fact-free bubble ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/lessons-learned/2015/10/29/7d23d98e-7e78-11e5-b575-d8dcfedb4ea1_story.html

I understand why some may want to vote Republican (tax cuts, SS/Medicare reductions, social issues etc). But it's hard not to feel insulted as a voter when politicians make erroneous statements without any fear of their electorate. Basically the candidates are telling the base - we'll go ahead and say whatever the hell we want, because we know you're uninformed.

[boutons_deux]

CarLIE Fiorina claims that 'the facts are clear' as she defends her lies (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/30/1442721/-Carly-Fiorina-claims-that-the-facts-are-clear-as-she-defends-her-lies)

Perhaps the most hilarious among them was one that Mitt Romney used and then had to abandon in 2012, because it was already wrong then. CNN's Alisyn Camerota challenged Fiorina on her claim that "92 percent of the jobs lost during Barack Obama's first term, belonged to women," and Fiorina did not disappoint (http://mediamatters.org/video/2015/10/29/cnns-alisyn-camerota-calls-out-carly-fiorina-on/206492):


CAMEROTA: But is there newer data available that makes those numbers obsolete that you shouldn't have used the old numbers last night?

FIORINA: No, absolutely not. Wow, this is the same conversation we had after the last debate. Everybody came out and said I was using wrong data. No, I'm not using wrong data. The liberal media doesn't like the data. Perhaps the liberal media doesn't like the facts. The facts are clear.


She went on from there, but you get the idea. That's the world according to Fiorina. In the world according to reality (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/10/28/fact-checking-the-third-round-of-gop-debates/),


While the statistic was technically correct for one month in 2012 — about three years into Obama’s first term — it quickly was dropped by Romney’s campaign because newer economic data made it obsolete.In the debate, Fiorina claimed that this statistic was true for Obama’s first term. But by the time he took the oath of office a second time, his jobs record was a net winner, both for men and women. So this claim is utterly wrong.


Several of Fiorina's other economic claims hold up about as well, although they don't have the added charm of having been debunked so much that they were abandoned by the 2012 Romney campaign.

For instance (http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/10/28/will-cnbc-let-carly-fiorina-get-away-with-smear/206480), Fiorina said that, under Obama, "median-income households have lost nearly $1,300 after inflation." True! But what she failed to mention is that "According to Census Bureau data compiled by the Federal Reserve of St. Louis, median household incomes have trended downward since 1999 after adjusting for inflation."

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe 1999 is before Barack Obama became president. It would be better if Obama had turned that trend around, but it's not his creation.

Similarly (http://mediamatters.org/video/2015/10/29/cnns-alisyn-camerota-calls-out-carly-fiorina-on/206492), talking to CNN's Camerota, Fiorina said that "African-American unemployment remains almost twice as high as white unemployment. Maybe they don't like that stat either. But that stat is true." There's a key word there: remains. Again, we can wish that President Obama had been able to end racial unemployment disparities, but those racial unemployment disparities have been around for a long time (http://www.bls.gov/spotlight/2010/african_american_history/).

This is Fiorina's schtick.

She busts out a blizzard of facts, dropping them quickly and assertively, and moving on so that by the time anyone has had the chance to identify just how big her lies and misrepresentations are, she's moved on to the next five things that need to be debunked. But she sure does sound well-informed and confident doing it.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/30/1442721/-Carly-Fiorina-claims-that-the-facts-are-clear-as-she-defends-her-lies?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dailykos%2Findex+%28Daily+Kos %29

[boutons_deux]

‘Does he know what the definition of a debate is?': CNN host rips Carson for whining about ‘gotcha’ questions

While the GOP pulls out of an already-scheduled February debate hosted by NBC because of anger over so-called ‘gotcha’ questions during a Wednesday session with CNBC moderators (http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/twitter-hilariously-mocks-rnc-babies-for-talking-tough-about-putin-but-fleeing-nbc-debates/), a CNN host wondered whether the candidates understand what the word “debate” means.“

Debates are supposed to be established to help the people get to know the candidates and get to know what’s behind them,” Ben Carson said.

“And what it’s turned into is a ‘gotcha.’ That’s silly.”

CNN host Brooke Baldwin questioned whether Carson and the others know what it means to debate, reading out the dictionary definition of it.

“The definition of a debate, and I quote, ‘a discussion between people in which they express different opinions about something,’ or, ‘contention by words or arguments,'” she said.

“I gotta wonder — I mean this is a smart, smart man, a pediatric neurosurgeon we’re talking about. Does he know what the definition of a debate is?”

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/does-he-know-what-the-definition-of-a-debate-is-cnn-host-rips-carson-for-whining-about-gotcha-questions/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29

[DarrinS]

CarLIE Fiorina claims that 'the facts are clear' as she defends her lies (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/30/1442721/-Carly-Fiorina-claims-that-the-facts-are-clear-as-she-defends-her-lies)



CarLIE

You think that will catch on, boo? :lol

[boutons_deux]

Cruz: Let ‘real journalists’ Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh host GOP debates instead of ‘left wing operatives’


http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/cruz-let-real-journalists-sean-hannity-and-rush-limbaugh-host-gop-debates-instead-of-left-wing-operatives/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29

‘real journalists’ :lol

Fox's debate team had questions as nasty or as silly as anything CNBC had. Repugs are using the CNBC, simply LYING, in concert, about "leftwing media bias".

[boutons_deux]

Top Republicans Seek To End Most Debating, Replace It With Infomercial


Ben Carson is seeking to rally Republican candidates to end most actual debating at future Republican debates (http://www.wsj.com/articles/carson-calls-for-major-changes-in-gop-debate-format-distribution-1446326197). Instead, candidates would spend most of their time taking turns delivering speeches.

Carson’s campaign is convening a meeting of various campaigns on Sunday night (http://www.wsj.com/articles/carson-calls-for-major-changes-in-gop-debate-format-distribution-1446326197).

The campaigns will discuss Carson’s proposal, which includes “a minimum of five minutes for opening and closing statements with all major declared GOP candidates on stage.”

There are currently 14 candidates that have regularly been appearing in debates. Giving them five minutes each for opening and closing statements would take 140 minutes (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ben-carson-140-minutes_56361d4ae4b00aa54a4e7c70?1m50zfr), which is more than the total time for a typical two hour debate.

CNBC focuses almost exclusively on business concerns and one of the questioners at the debatelaunched the Tea Party (http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2015/10/28/3717234/ted-cruz-cnbc-is-too-liberal/) with a rant on the network. The questions challenged by the candidateswere (http://www.politico.com/blogs/live-from-boulder/2015/10/debate-harwood-rubio-tax-215322) actually accurate (http://onpolitics.usatoday.com/2015/10/28/donald-trump-mark-zuckerberg-rubio/).
Ted Cruz has subsequently called for all future debate moderators to be registered Republicans (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/cruz-i-want-debate-moderators-who-will-vote-republican/article/2575397). Cruz suggested Sean Hannity or Rush Limabugh (http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/gop-primaries/258754-cruz-cnbc-debate-moderators-were-left-wing-operatives).


http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2015/11/01/3718156/ben-carson-seeks-to-end-most-debating-replace-it-with-long-infomercial-streamed-on-youtube/

Question from Fox's panel of liars were just as "bad" as those from CNBC, but Repugs didn't attack the Fox Liars.

[rmt]

No Rubio please. Talk about being in donors' pockets:

At Wednesday night’s GOP debate, Rubio was asked about his co-authorship of controversial legislation–- known as the I-Squared bill — that would triple the number of wage-depressing H-1B visas up to 195,000 per year. In Rubio’s home state of Florida, the Walt Disney Company used H-1Bs to lay off hundreds of American workers and force them to train their foreign replacements. Disney’s CEO has endorsed Rubio’s I-Squared bill.

Even Cruz wants to increase H-1B visas. There is no shortage of high-tech workers - US universities graduate thousands of qualified workers every year - these corporations just want cheap labor. My husband (lots of experience) was laid off and looking for a job - one phone call from a recruiter in 7 weeks - that's how bad the job market is.

[Aztecfan03]

This article nicely summarizes how the GOP candidates and their base live in a fact-free bubble ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/lessons-learned/2015/10/29/7d23d98e-7e78-11e5-b575-d8dcfedb4ea1_story.html

I understand why some may want to vote Republican (tax cuts, SS/Medicare reductions, social issues etc). But it's hard not to feel insulted as a voter when politicians make erroneous statements without any fear of their electorate. Basically the candidates are telling the base - we'll go ahead and say whatever the hell we want, because we know you're uninformed.

the irony...

[Clipper Nation]

Top Republicans Seek To End Most Debating, Replace It With Infomercial


Ben Carson is seeking to rally Republican candidates to end most actual debating at future Republican debates (http://www.wsj.com/articles/carson-calls-for-major-changes-in-gop-debate-format-distribution-1446326197). Instead, candidates would spend most of their time taking turns delivering speeches.

Carson’s campaign is convening a meeting of various campaigns on Sunday night (http://www.wsj.com/articles/carson-calls-for-major-changes-in-gop-debate-format-distribution-1446326197).

The campaigns will discuss Carson’s proposal, which includes “a minimum of five minutes for opening and closing statements with all major declared GOP candidates on stage.”

There are currently 14 candidates that have regularly been appearing in debates. Giving them five minutes each for opening and closing statements would take 140 minutes (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ben-carson-140-minutes_56361d4ae4b00aa54a4e7c70?1m50zfr), which is more than the total time for a typical two hour debate.

CNBC focuses almost exclusively on business concerns and one of the questioners at the debatelaunched the Tea Party (http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2015/10/28/3717234/ted-cruz-cnbc-is-too-liberal/) with a rant on the network. The questions challenged by the candidateswere (http://www.politico.com/blogs/live-from-boulder/2015/10/debate-harwood-rubio-tax-215322) actually accurate (http://onpolitics.usatoday.com/2015/10/28/donald-trump-mark-zuckerberg-rubio/).
Ted Cruz has subsequently called for all future debate moderators to be registered Republicans (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/cruz-i-want-debate-moderators-who-will-vote-republican/article/2575397). Cruz suggested Sean Hannity or Rush Limabugh (http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/gop-primaries/258754-cruz-cnbc-debate-moderators-were-left-wing-operatives).


http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2015/11/01/3718156/ben-carson-seeks-to-end-most-debating-replace-it-with-long-infomercial-streamed-on-youtube/

Question from Fox's panel of liars were just as "bad" as those from CNBC, but Repugs didn't attack the Fox Liars.




So in other words, their debates are going to be just like the DNC's?

[boutons_deux]

So in other words, their debates are going to be just like the DNC's?

the Dem debate was adults talking about issues, policies, problems discussions, not childish school-yard sniping, insulting, gotchas, serial LIES like the Repug klown show.

[rmt]

the Dem debate was adults talking about issues, policies, problems discussions, not childish school-yard sniping, insulting, gotchas, serial LIES like the Repug klown show.

You mean softball questions to which Hillary again points out that she's a FEMALE (it's so ridiculous to hear her say that that's how she'd be different from the Obama administration - cringe worthy and this is coming from a female). That childish, school-yard snipping, insulting, gotchas are coming from the very biased mainstream media - did you really listen to the last Republican debate? Even the other MSM was criticizing MNBC.

[boutons_deux]

You mean softball questions to which Hillary again points out that she's a FEMALE (it's so ridiculous to hear her say that that's how she'd be different from the Obama administration - cringe worthy and this is coming from a female). That childish, school-yard snipping, insulting, gotchas are coming from the very biased mainstream media - did you really listen to the last Republican debate? Even the other MSM was criticizing MNBC.

MSM said CNBCs questions were as "bad" as Fox's "questions" and no Repug klown complained about Fox's "bias".

the Repug klowns are blatantly, complicitly pushing the very old LIE of "librul media bias".

Carson, for one, doesn't want to be CAUGHT LYING again about lucratively pimping for shady supplements, etc, etc.

"hard" questions based on a klown's own words aren't "gotchas".

[boutons_deux]

Gotcha, G.O.P.

Here we go again with attacks on the “mainstream media” and the invocation of the dreaded “gotcha question” to excuse poor performance and intellectual flat-footedness.

After being asked at last week’s debate about his ties to the shady nutritional supplement company Mannatech and saying “I didn’t have an involvement with them” and dismissing claims of a connection as “total propaganda,” Ben Carson (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/05/04/us/elections/ben-carson.html?inline=nyt-per) called Thursday for an overhaul of Republican debate formats.

“Debates are supposed to be established to help the people get to know the candidate,” Carson said, according to The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/10/29/ben-carson-calls-on-rival-campaigns-to-help-him-end-gotcha-debate-questions/#https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/10/29/ben-carson-calls-on-rival-campaigns-to-he). “What it’s turned into is — gotcha! That’s silly. That’s not helpful to anybody.”

I think the question was a fair one, and I’m not alone. Carson’s business manager,Armstrong Williams, said Thursday on CNN (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1510/29/cg.01.html) that the question wasn’t a gotcha one but an “absolutely” fair one.

And on the credibility of Carson’s denial, PolitiFact ruled (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/oct/29/ben-carson/debate-ben-carson-says-he-has-no-connection-mannat/):

“As far as we can tell, Carson was not a paid employee or official endorser of the product. However, his claim suggests he has no ties to Mannatech whatsoever. In reality, he got paid to deliver speeches to Mannatech and appeared in promotional videos, and he consistently delivered glowing reviews of the nutritional supplements. As a world-renowned surgeon, Carson’s opinion on health issues carries weight, and Mannatech has used Carson’s endorsement to its advantage.

“We rate Carson’s claim False.”

The idea of the gotcha question and gotcha journalism have decades-long roots, at least. In 1999, Calvin Trillin in Time Magazine (http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/time/1999/09/20/trillin.html) called gotcha journalism, “campaign coverage dominated by attempts to reveal youthful misbehavior.” But the questions the Republican candidates received were not of that genre.

In a 1992 New York Times Magazine article (http://www.nytimes.com/1992/08/23/magazine/tender-trap.html?pagewanted=4) about Barbara Walters, one of her producers told Bill Carter that Walters always went for the “gotcha question, the one that reveals the person.”

But the idea of the “gotcha question” gained new primacy in the 2008 election, when William Safire wrote in The Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/magazine/25wwln-safire-t.html) of MSNBC’s Chris Matthews’s prediction that “The gotcha politics will begin,” and noted that “Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, used the word in defense of having the audience question candidates at a CNN/YouTube debate instead of allowing reporters to have at his party’s candidates. He preferred to ‘let the American people back in’ than endure questions ‘from a press corps that wants to play gotcha!’ ”

But perhaps it has its most resonance because of its use by the disastrously ill-equipped Republican vice presidential candidate, who repeatedly used the phase as an excuse for her train wreck interviews. Thanks, Pitbull Bitch! :lol

Gotcha questions have come to mean any question one doesn’t want to answer, any question whose answer would or could reveal something unflattering. In a way, a question is simply a question and only becomes a gotcha if you, the answerer, feel convicted and unsettled by it. Gotcha is in the mind — and spine — of the interviewee.

Carson simply wasn’t prepared for the Mannatech question and wasn’t completely honest in the answer. If that is gotcha journalism, I’m here for it “every day of the week and twice on Sunday,” to borrow a phrase from Mike Huckabee.

This is not to say that the debate wasn’t a bit of a mess. It was. Nor is it to say that some of the questions weren’t questionable. They were. But questions that seek clarification of a candidate’s past are fair.

Yet Republicans have decided that attacking the media makes good optics. Not only is the party considering overhauling the debate process (http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/10/31/top-republican-lawyer-to-attend-meeting-on-debates/), it has suspended an upcoming NBC debate because, according to the Republican National Committee chairman, Reince Priebus (http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/10/30/republicans-suspend-cooperation-with-nbc-in-furor-over-debate/), “CNBC’s moderators engaged in a series of ‘gotcha’ questions, petty and meanspirited in tone, and designed to embarrass our candidates.”

But gotcha questions aren’t the Republicans’ problem. A frustration among Republican voters with political professionalism and a hodgepodge of fatally flawed candidates is.

The more traditional portion of the Republican field is littered with candidates with strong résumés — I use the word strong here loosely, to mean the existence of governmental experience, not the quality of it — but relatively weak rhetorical skills.

Of the nontraditional lot, there is a former neurosurgeon whose strategy seems to be to appear barely awake while delivering word salads of outlandishness in a murmur, a real-estate mogul full of bluster and bawdiness, and a fired C.E.O. engaged in a breathtaking example of pink-slip revisionism.

Marco Rubio is thought to have won the last debate, not so much because he brilliantly articulated reasonable, or intellectually invigorating policy — “I’m against anything that’s bad for my mother” :lol is a kindergarten truism, not a nuanced policy position — but because he remained relatively even and unperturbed.

And yet, it’s Carson who is now the front-runner, one of the candidates who spoke the least during the last debate and who seemed to want to say nothing at all.

And that candidate is the one worrying about the precious few questions he will have to answer. That is the elephant party’s problem: They’re betting on someone who’s using ostrich logic.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/02/opinion/gotcha-gop.html

[boutons_deux]

GOP Debate Mendacity Shocks Even the Conservatives

For people who so often accuse Hillary Clinton of lying, the Republican presidential candidates seem to feel perfectly free to bend, twist and shred the truth at will. Unsurprisingly, that is just what several of them were caught doing in their free-for-all CNBC debate. They prevaricated about themselves, their policies and their opponents, without blinking an eye—and for the most part, they got away with it.

Do nice people tell self-serving lies? Perhaps they do, because it was terribly nice Ben Carson who uttered one of the most blatant whoppers of the evening.

To loud booing from the partisan audience, moderator Carl Quintanilla asked the soft-spoken neurosurgeon about his long and lucrative involvement with Mannatech, a nutritional supplement manufacturer that has been cited for false health claims for its “glyconutrients.” (How bad was Mannatech? Bad enough to provoke a fraud action brought by Greg Abbott, the former Texas attorney general who is now that state’s very conservative governor.)

Equally mendacious about his own personal history was Marco Rubio, who “won” the debate according to many observers. When Becky Quick of CNBC asked a predictable question about his checked financial affairs, which have included foreclosures, liquidations, phony expense accounts and other embarrassments, the Florida Senator shot back: “You just listed a litany of discredited attacks from Democrats and my political opponents, and I’m not gonna waste 60 seconds detailing them all.”

Discredited attacks? Actually, Quick’s question was premised on facts that are not in dispute—as even Rubio himself acknowledged in his own campaign book. So frontally deceptive was his response that an outraged Joe Scarborough, his fellow Florida Republican, called him out on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” the next day.

“Marco just flat-out lied to the American people there,” Scarborough complained. “And I was stunned that the moderators didn’t stop there and go, ‘Wait a second, these are court records. What are you talking about? ... Becky was telling the truth, Marco was lying. And yet everybody’s going, ‘Oh, Marco was great.’ No, Marco lied about his financials.” Not incidentally, Rubio also lied about the effects of his tax plan, claiming his tax cuts would mostly benefit lower-income families when in fact its biggest benefits would accrue to the top 1 percent, as Republican tax schemes almost always do.

Another brand of lie was pronounced by Carly Fiorina, who drew attention at the last GOP by insisting she had watched a grisly Planned Parenthood video that doesn’t exist. This time, she reached back to the 2012 Republican campaign to invent a factoid about women’s employment.

Fiorina tries to sell herself as the candidate tough enough to take down Clinton, and tries to prove it by making stuff up. At this debate, she huffed:

“It is the height of hypocrisy for Mrs. Clinton to talk about being the first woman president, when every single policy she espouses and every single policy of President Obama has been demonstratively bad for women. Ninety-two percent of the jobs lost during Barack Obama’s first term belonged to women.”

But as Politifact quickly established, that statement was false in every particular. Not only did women not lose “92 percent” of the jobs in Obama’s first term; the number of women employed during the period from January 2009 to January 2013 grew by 416,000. Naturally, as she did with Planned Parenthood, Fiorina angrily repeated the lie when challenged.

Rubio ridiculously claimed that the “mainstream media” is really a Democratic SuperPAC. And now RNC chair Reince Priebus has reneged on the party’s debate agreement with NBC News. He and his candidates just couldn’t handle two hours of sharp but thoroughly polite questioning.

They constantly insult Clinton, but how would any of these slippery blowhards survive something like the 11-hour Benghazi grilling she breezed through on Capitol Hill? If you want to understand who they are, just listen to them whine.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/gop_debate_mendacity_even_shocks_conservatives_201 51030?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%253A+Truthdig+Truthdig%253A+Dril ling+Beneath+the+Headlines

but you rightwingnuts assholes push the klowns' "librul media bias did us wrong" bullshit while ignoring the numerous, blatant LIES from the Repug klowns.

[DMX7]

There are people on the GOP side that I disagree with politically but I think they're decent people (e.g., Jeb Bush, John Kasich, Ben Carson).

But Carly just comes across as a bad person who will say anything to get her way. It was refreshing to see Donald Trump stand up to her, but sadly he backed down under the pressure.

[boutons_deux]

Jeb Bush lies about his 4% FL growth, and screwed FL with charter schools

Kasich is extreme right wing and Warrior on Women.

Carson is at best way out of his depth, is a fucking liar.

"decent" is the same as "likeability", "wanna have a beer with"?

Being Pres shouldn't be a beauty/popularity contest, but it is for the American sheeple, World Champions in ignorant superficiality.

[DMX7]

Jeb Bush lies about his 4% FL growth, and screwed FL with charter schools

Kasich is extreme right wing and Warrior on Women.

Carson is at best way out of his depth, is a fucking liar.

"decent" is the same as "likeability", "wanna have a beer with"?

Being Pres shouldn't be a beauty/popularity contest, but it is for the American sheeple, World Champions in ignorant superficiality.
All politicians lie about something. Don't tell me Hillary or Bill have perfect records and I like them.

[boutons_deux]

All politicians lie about something. Don't tell me Hillary or Bill have perfect records and I like them.

policies and programs and issues SHOULD come first, not likeability.

[DMX7]

policies and programs and issues SHOULD come first, not likeability.

Yes, I agree. That doesn't refute my point that I think some of the GOP candidates are decent people but just wrong politically.

I will be voting democrat unless Donald Trump gets the nomination just so you know.

[boutons_deux]

Read the new debate host questions Ben Ginsberg has compiled from Republican campaigns

Ben Ginsberg, the Republican attorney who's become the pro bono debate negotiator for frustrated GOP candidates, has amended his initial letter of questions to TV networks.

When Sunday night's meeting of Ginsberg and 13 campaigns concluded, Ginsberg said that he would incorporate their suggestions into a second draft.

That draft is below, though a source cautions that no campaign has signed off on it so far.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/11/02/read-the-new-debate-host-questions-ben-ginsberg-has-compiled-from-republican-campaigns/

let's see:

Repugs klowns demand TOTAL DEFERENCE and FAWNING RESPECT

Absolutely NO IRREVERENCE

Absolutely no quoting from our books, or speeches, or anything we've ever said or done. It's all inoperative!

Absolutely DO NOT CHALLENGE or CONTRADICT anything we say in debate

etc, etc, etc.

[rmt]

Jeb Bush lies about his 4% FL growth, and screwed FL with charter schools

Kasich is extreme right wing and Warrior on Women.

Carson is at best way out of his depth, is a fucking liar.

"decent" is the same as "likeability", "wanna have a beer with"?

Being Pres shouldn't be a beauty/popularity contest, but it is for the American sheeple, World Champions in ignorant superficiality.

Kasich is NOT "extreme right wing." He's the MOST LEFT of all the republican presidential candidates. He expanded Medicaid in Ohio - good luck paying for that a few years down the road - but he probably won't be governor so no skin off his nose.

Charter schools (in Miami) are highly successful - one of the best schools in Miami is a Greek charter school that my daughter's best friend attended (now at Stanford). I know lots of people with kids in them (myself included) and they are good bit better than most public schools which can't get rid of bad teachers and have little flexibility/wiggle-room.

BTW, I'm probably most aligned with Ben Carson but he's too conservative/Christian to win a general election so I'll be voting for Trump in the Florida primary. Hopefully, Trump will get enough of the Independents and dis-enchanted Dems to win a general election vs HRC. I even went to his rally at Doral. Impressive place - the employees take a bus to get from one end to another. Swanky hand towels in the bathroom and great water cups - nice to see how the other half lives :toast

[Warlord23]

All politicians lie, be they D or R. Most political lies are misleading statements or concealment of items unknown to the public or speculation or exaggeration.

Examples:
1. When Romney said that 20 million people will lose their current insurance due to Obamacare. This was a misleading statement and an exaggeration because (a) this was one of 5 scenarios posited by the CBO, and (b) it included people who voluntarily exit their current plan for a better option.
2. When Clinton said he didn't bang Lewinsky, he was concealing something that wasn't public knowledge at that time
3. When Bush Jr said that Iraq had WMD, that was speculation because the US didn't have solid evidence
4. When Obama claimed that the ACA was saving people money, he was comparing the premium increase post ACA to the rate of increase before the ACA. A misleading statement because he made it sound like an absolute reduction.

Those 4 lies listed above assume that the listener is someone with a basic level of critical thinking. By contrast, what's going on in the GOP primary is hilarious - the candidates are dropping absolute whoppers which are so obvious that they shouldn't fool anyone. Trump coolly disowning a statement from his own campaign website, Fiorina imagining non-existing footage from the PP videos, Rubio denying his documented financial situation and complaining about media bias, Carson denying association with a company which helped fund his endowed chair at Johns Hopkins in return for appearing in promotional videos, etc.

Clearly the candidates feel that the base doesn't give a damn at this point. They've decided that they can fabricate an alternate reality and still have credibility among registered primary voters. However this will come back to bite the eventual nominee in the general ...

[DMX7]

Charter schools (in Miami) are highly successful - one of the best schools in Miami is a Greek charter school that my daughter's best friend attended (now at Stanford). I know lots of people with kids in them (myself included) and they are good bit better than most public schools which can't get rid of bad teachers and have little flexibility/wiggle-room.


Public schools also can't get rid of the trouble students as easily.

[boutons_deux]

" He's the MOST LEFT of all the republican presidential candidates."

list his positions, actions on the following:

funding planned parenthood

abortion clinics

immigration

voter registration

voting days,

gerrymandering

expanding medicaid

Ohio ACA exchange

OH state employee unions

tax cuts for business and wealthy

anything else that makes him any "less extremist" than the other klowns?

[rmt]

I'd probably rank them from most to least conservative:

1. Cruz
2. Huckabee
3. Carson
4. Paul (libertarian)
5-7. Fiorini
5-7. Rubio
5-7. Bush
8. Christie
9. Trump
10. Kaisch

IMO, Bush, Rubio, Fiorini and Kaisch are RINOs - I'm sick and tired of the establishment politicians.

[boutons_deux]

Republican Tantrum Backfires As Democrats Take Over GOP Presidential Debate Slot

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/11/02/republican-tantrum-backfires-democrats-gop-presidential-debate-slot.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+politicususa%2FfJAl+%28Politi cus+USA+%29

[rmt]

Republican Tantrum Backfires As Democrats Take Over GOP Presidential Debate Slot

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/11/02/republican-tantrum-backfires-democrats-gop-presidential-debate-slot.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+politicususa%2FfJAl+%28Politi cus+USA+%29

Good. Dems should have more debates - what do they have now 6? 8? Repubs have 12?

[boutons_deux]

New G.O.P. Debate Format Forbids Questions About Things Candidates Said, Did

NEW YORK — According to a format negotiated between the Republican National Committee and the television networks, future Presidential debates during the 2016 campaign will strictly forbid questions about things the candidates “said” or “did,” the R.N.C. confirmed on Monday.

Reince Priebus, the chairman of the R.N.C., said that the deal addressed the candidates’ concerns about the previously broadcast debates, which he called “abusively fact-based.”

“In some cases, moderators were asking candidates questions about statements they made two or three weeks earlier,” Priebus said. “This new format will eliminate that kind of ancient history.”

Priebus said that the new format would satisfy not only the candidates but also Republican voters, many of whom have complained about moderators’ ”out-of-control obsession with verifiable information.”

“This is a Presidential debate,” Priebus said. “If people want facts, they can watch ‘Jeopardy.’ ”

In the new format, the time previously allotted to questions about things the candidates said or did will now be devoted to questions written by the candidates themselves and read, verbatim, by the moderators.

“Carly Fiorina would very much like to answer the question, ‘How has your experience as the most successful C.E.O. in U.S. history uniquely prepared you to be its greatest President?’ ” Priebus said.

“This new format will let her speak to that.”

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/new-g-o-p-debate-format-forbids-questions-about-things-candidates-said-did?mbid=nl_110215%20Borowitz%20Newsletter%201&CNDID=&spMailingID=8212076&spUserID=MjczNzc0Njk0NDAS1&spJobID=800167878&spReportId=ODAwMTY3ODc4S0

[DMX7]

“Carly Fiorina would very much like to answer the question, ‘How has your experience as the most successful C.E.O. in U.S. history uniquely prepared you to be its greatest President?’ ” Priebus said.

“This new format will let her speak to that.”

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/new-g-o-p-debate-format-forbids-questions-about-things-candidates-said-did?mbid=nl_110215%20Borowitz%20Newsletter%201&CNDID=&spMailingID=8212076&spUserID=MjczNzc0Njk0NDAS1&spJobID=800167878&spReportId=ODAwMTY3ODc4S0

Fiorina Response, "That you recognize me only as the most successful CEO in US history and not as the most successful CEO in World history is another classic example of liberal media bias".

[DMX7]

Did Sarah Palin coined the term "gotcha question"? After the unfair questions about what does she read? :lol

[boutons_deux]

I'd probably rank them from most to least conservative:

1. Cruz
2. Huckabee
3. Carson
4. Paul (libertarian)
5-7. Fiorini
5-7. Rubio
5-7. Bush
8. Christie
9. Trump
10. Kaisch

IMO, Bush, Rubio, Fiorini and Kaisch are RINOs - I'm sick and tired of the establishment politicians.

all peas in an extreme right wing pod. The differences are so small, if any, you won't list them.

[rmt]

all peas in an extreme right wing pod. The differences are so small, if any, you won't list them.

Kaisch is about as extreme right as Hillary is extreme left (that is if she lines up with Bill - she's just saying all this stuff to out-do Bernie). Probably why Obama doesn't like the Clintons - too moderate/center for him.

Trump is also not extreme right. At one time, he was for single payor. But then both Obama and Hillary used to believe that marriage should be between one man and one woman - so who knows. I think Trump says that if there's a nuclear threat, he'd invade Iran and take their oil to pay for the war or something to that effect. Both sides pander to their extreme in order to get the nomination. When they're in office, they'll all move more toward the center - have to because of the constraints of the Constitution/Congress/SC - this is all assuming that they follow the constitution and not try to rule by fiat and executive order as Obama does.

[boutons_deux]

Make the wingnuts answer these: The eight questions debate moderators must ask the Republicans next

Do you think we should raise the federal minimum wage to $12.50 an hour by 2020?Yes or no?

Do you support lifting the income cap on Social Security to require higher-income workers to pay Social Security taxes on all of their wages? Yes or no?

Do you should that the Supreme Court’s Citizens United ruling — that donations by individuals, corporations, and other groups to political candidates is a form of free speech protected by the First Amendment – should be overturned? Yes or no?

Do you think we should raise taxes on people earning more than $1 million a year? Yes or no?

Do you think that all workers should earn paid sick days so working Americans can care for themselves and family members? Yes or no?

Do you think we should restore the Glass-Steagall Act limits on commercial banks playing the market with their depositors’ funds? Yes or no?

Do you support the continued existence of and full funding for the Consumer Financial Protection Agency? Yes or no?

Do you favor making tuition free for college students? Yes or no?

http://www.salon.com/2015/11/02/make_the_wingnuts_answer_these_the_eight_questions _debate_moderators_must_ask_the_republicans_next/

[boutons_deux]

Media Mock The GOP's "Ridiculous Manifesto" Of Presidential Debate Demands (http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/mediamatters/research/~3/fhxKGsLwnbA/206583)

On Monday, Republican operative Ben Ginsberg drafted a letter for the various networks hosting future debates. In the letter, the RNC made the following demands (per Mediaite):

-Will you commit that you will not:

1) Ask the candidate to raise their hands to answer a question
2) Ask yes/no questions without time to provide a substantive answer
3) Allow candidate-to-candidate questioning
4) Allow props or pledges by the candidates
5) Have reaction shots of members of the audience or moderators during debates
6) Show an empty podium after a break (describe how far away the bathrooms are)
7) Use behind shots of the candidates showing their notes
8) Leave microphones on during the breaks
9) Allow members of the audience to wear political messages (shirts, buttons, signs, etc.). Who enforces?

-What instructions will you provide the audience about cheering during the debate?

-What are your plans for the lead-in to the debate (Pre-shot video? Announcer to moderator? Director to Moderator?) and how long is it?

-Can you pledge that the temperature in the hall be kept below 67 degrees?

http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/11/03/media-mock-the-gops-ridiculous-manifesto-of-pre/206583

typical dickless Repugs and conservatives, lying and bullying are their main tools.

All of these are immediately implementable, but Repugs say they won't bully Fox to implement since "there's not enough time". :lol

[boutons_deux]

A former Republican congressman bemoans his sorry candidates

Me: “So what do really you think of these candidates?”

Him: “You want my unvarnished opinion?”

Me: “Please. That’s why I called.”

Him: “They’re all nuts.”

Me: “Seriously. What do you really think of them?”

Him: “I just told you. They’re bonkers. Bizarre. They’re like a Star Wars bar room.”

Me: “How did it happen? How did your party manage to come up with this collection?”

Him: “We didn’t. They came up with themselves. There’s no party any more. It’s chaos. Anybody can just decide they want to be the Republican nominee, and make a run for it. Carson? Trump? They’re in the lead and they’re both out of their f*cking minds.”

Me: “That’s not reassuring.”

Him: “It’s a disaster. I’m telling you, if either of them is elected, this country is going to hell. The rest of them aren’t much better. I mean, Carly Fiorina? Really? Rubio? Please. Ted Cruz? Oh my god. And the people we thought had it sewn up, who are halfway sane – Bush and Christie – they’re sounding almost as batty as the rest.”

Me: “Who’s to blame for this mess?”

Him: “Roger Ailes, David and Charles Koch, Rupert Murdoch, Rush Limbaugh. I could go on. They’ve poisoned the American mind and destroyed the Republican Party.

Me: “Nice talking with you.”

Him: “Sleep well.”

http://www.salon.com/2015/11/07/robert_reich_was_i_becoming_excessively_crotchety_ and_partisan_or_are_these_people_really_as_weird_a s_they_seem_partner/

[boutons_deux]

cat fight!

Carly Fiorina confronts the women of “The View”: “I have a real thick skin”

The GOP presidential hopeful's appearance comes after the show made a crack at her appearance

Carly Fiorina took on the ladies of “The View” for her much-anticipated face-off (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/carly-fiorina-shrugs-off-demented-comment-called-kinds/story?id=35009516) today after a mini-controversy erupted last week when co-host Michelle Collins joked that the Republican presidential candidate’s face looked “demented.”


Off the bat, co-host Whoppi Goldberg offered to cut the tension, asking Fiorina “we know you took issue with something we said last week – what’s happening girl?”
“We saw that you were a little upset with us about a comic comment that was made, so how will you… get a thicker skin to accept some of the humorous things that will be said about you?” Goldberg asked Fiorina, who has made the media rounds lashing out (http://www.salon.com/2015/11/05/slipping_away_in_the_polls_carly_fiorina_rehashes_ her_tired_attacks_on_feminism_the_progressive_view _of_feminism_is_not_about_women/) against the co-hosts’ mocking of her appearance during the CNBC debate.

Explaining that she has “been called bimbo” throughout her career, Fiorina got snarky. “If you meant [the] comment about my face being demented as a Halloween mask as humor, so be it.”

“I have a real thick skin,” Fiorina insisted before co-host Joy Behar interjected, pushing-back that she has been an equal opportunity offender.

“You know what Joy, you can say whatever you want. I’m not going to stop that,” Fiorina snapped back. “And don’t worry, I have skin plenty thick enough to take whatever people throw at me. I think there are real issues in this nation that we ought to able to discuss in a fact-based [conversation].”

“How will you get a thicker skin?” Goldberg pressed.

Paula Faris pressed further: “You’re clearly trying to make lemonade out of lemons, aren’t you?”

“Oh, so you are telling me you guys are lemons?” Fiorina quickly quipped back.

For the rest of the interview Fiorina refused to budge, pushing back against the co-hosts by complaining that “conservative women are held to a different standard than liberal women.”

http://www.salon.com/2015/11/06/carly_fiorina_confronts_the_women_of_the_view_i_ha ve_a_real_thick_skin/


?conservative women are held to a different standard than liberal women.”

It's AUTOMATIC: BLAME THE LIBRUL MEDIA!

[boutons_deux]

Fair and Balanced, OTOH, etc, etc.

NY Times Stretches To Turn GOP Candidate Lies Into "Bipartisan" Problem

In a story discussing (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/08/us/politics/candidates-stick-to-script-if-not-the-truth-in-2016-race.html?ref=politics&_r=0) how the truth is "starting to look deeply out of fashion" during the 2016 presidential campaign, The New York Times bent over backwards to create the impression of a "bipartisan" trend by equating unambiguous falsehoods from several Republican candidates with incomplete retellings of stories about Hillary Clinton and false statements made by Democratic candidates decades ago.

the paper claimed that "the tendency to bend facts is bipartisan."

As evidence, the Times cited falsehoods told by presidential candidates Bill Clinton, Gary Hart, and Joe Biden more than two decades ago.

The stories the Times cited as evidence of current falsehoods from a Democratic candidate, Hillary Clinton, are specious examples and simply not on par with what they detailed about the Republicans.

First the paper reported that "Hillary Rodham Clinton has said that all of her grandparents were immigrants, even though her paternal grandmother was born in Pennsylvania."

The two examples are very different from the straight-out falsehoods being used by the Republican campaigns. And the concession from the Clinton campaign is very different from the Fiorina campaign's response to disparities in her past statements about Hewlett-Packard, in which the Times noted "Mrs. Fiorina's campaign aides seemed unperturbed by the discrepancies and declined to make the candidate available for comment."

Rather than report on the phenomenon of falsehoods from Republican candidates and how those campaigns are responding to reporting and fact checking of those stories, the Times instead chose to create a false equivalence and pretend that the problem is "bipartisan."

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/11/08/ny-times-stretches-to-turn-gop-candidate-lies-i/206702

[spurraider21]

booboo with 40 posts in this thread, none of them are his own thoughts

[boutons_deux]

booboo with 40 posts in this thread, none of them are his own thoughts

which is another original thought from spurraider

[spurraider21]

at least i dont have to post a third party article to articulate a point :lol

[boutons_deux]

at least i dont have to post a third party article to articulate a point :lol

you don't have a point, dickless

[ElNono]

Good read, IMO

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/11/black-republican-voter-quits-gpo-213326

[boutons_deux]

Good read, IMO

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/11/black-republican-voter-quits-gpo-213326

"refusing to grapple with the issue of race" immigration, racism, war mongering, abortion, LGBT, Christian persecution, won't ever be "grappled" with, those are Repug campaigning tricks only to sucker in you stupid, ignorant rightwingnuts.

eg, Ryan just said he will NEVER work on immigration because Obama is not trustworthy. :lol

"Sanford and Graham ... I thought they were principled men" :lol

[boutons_deux]

Here are 13 things everyone would know if we really had a ‘liberal’ media

1. Where the jobs went.

Outsourcing (or offshoring) is a bigger contributor to unemployment in the U.S. than laziness.

Since 2000, U.S. multinationals have cut 2.9 million jobs here while increasing employment overseas by 2.4 million (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/04/19/159555/us-corporations-outsourced-americans/). This is likely just the tip of the iceberg as multinational corporations account for only about 20 percent of the labor force.

When was the last time you saw a front-page headline about outsourcing?

2. Upward wealth redistribution and/or inequality.

In 2010, 20 percent of the people held approximately 88 percent of the net worth in the U.S. The top 1 percent alone held 35 percent of all net worth.

The bottom 80 percent of people held only 12 percent of net worth in 2010. In 1983, the bottom 80 percent held 18 percent of net worth.

These statistics (http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html) are not Democrat or Republican. They are widely available to reporters.

Why aren’t they discussed in the “liberal” media?

3. ALEC.

If there were a corporate organization that drafted laws and then passed them on to state legislators to implement, wouldn’t you think the “liberal” media would report on them?

The American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) (http://www.alec.org/) is such an organization.

Need legislation drafted? No need to go through a lobbyist to reach state legislatures anymore. Just contact ALEC. Among other things, ALEC is responsible for:



Stand Your Ground laws
Voter ID laws
Right to Work laws
Privatizing schools
Health savings account bills, which benefit health care companies
Tobacco industry legislation


Many legislators don’t even change the proposals handed to them by this group of corporations. They simply take the corporate bills and bring them to the floor.

This is the primary reason for so much similar bad legislation in different states.

Hello … “liberal media” … over here!!!

They’re meeting in Chicago (http://www.alec.org/meetings/annual-meeting/) this weekend. Maybe the “liberal media” will send some reporters.

4. The number of people in prison.

Which country in the world has the most people in prison?

You might think it would be China (with 1 billion-plus people and a restrictive government) or former Soviets still imprisoned in Russia.

Wrong.

The U.S. has the most people in prison by far of any country in the world. With 5 percent of the world’s population, we have 25 percent of the world’s prisoners (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/world/americas/23iht-23prison.12253738.html?pagewanted=all)—2.3 million criminals. China with a population four times ours is second with 1.6 million people in prison.

In 1972, 350,000 Americans were imprisoned. By 2010, this number had grown to 2.3 million. Yet from 1988-2008, crime rates declined by 25 percent.

Isn’t anyone in the liberal media interested in why so many people are in prison when crime has dropped? WTF “liberal media”?

5. The number of black people in prison.

In 2009, non-Hispanic blacks, while only 13.6 percent of the American population,accounted for 39.4 percent of the total prison and jail population (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States).

In 2011, according to FBI statistics, whites accounted for 69.2 percent of arrests (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43).

Numbers like these suggest a racial bias in our criminal justice system.

To me, this is a much bigger story than any single case like Travyon Martin’s. Or, at the very least, why didn’t the “liberal media” ever mention this while covering the Martin story?

6. U.S. health care costs are the highest in the world.

The expenditure per person in the U.S. is $8,233. Norway is second with $5,388.

Total amount of GDP spent on health care is also the highest of any country in the world at 17.6 percent. The next closest country is the Netherlands at 12 percent.

As a liberal, I’d like to ask why the market isn’t bringing down costs.

I’d think a “liberal media” might too.

7. Glass-Steagall.

The Glass-Steagall Act separated risky financial investments from government-backed deposits for 66 years.

The idea is simple. Banks were prohibited from using your federally insured savings to make risky investments.

Why is this a good idea?

Risky investments should be risky. If banks can use federally insured funds, there is no risk to them. If they win, they win. If they lose, you lose

8. Gerrymandering.

When was the last time you saw a front page headline about gerrymandering?

Before the 2010 election, conservatives launched a plan to win control of state legislatures before the census. The idea was to be in power when national congressional districts were redrawn in order to fix them so Republicans would win a majority of districts.

The Redistricting Majority Project (http://www.redistrictingmajorityproject.com/) was hugely successful. In 2012, Barack Obama was elected president by nearly 3.5 million votes. In Congressional races, Democrats drew nearly 1.4 million more votes than Republicans yet Republicans won control of the House 234 seats to 201 seats.

How is this possible?

By pumping $30 million into state races in 2010 to win the legislatures, Republicans redrew state maps (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/opinion/sunday/the-great-gerrymander-of-2012.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&) in Arizona, Michigan, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Texas, Florida and Ohio to place all of the Democrats into just a few districts.

In this manner, Democrats win heavily in a couple districts and lose the rest.

In North Carolina, the statewide vote was 51 percent Democrat and 49 percent Republican yet nine Republicans won and only four Democrats.

Where is your coverage of this vote stealing, “liberal media”?

You’re willing to cover voter ID laws, why can’t you cover real-vote stealing?

9. The number of bills blocked by Republicans in Congress.

The filibuster has been used a record number of times since Obama was elected. From 2008-2012, 375 bills weren’t even allowed to come to a vote in the Senate because Republicans used filibuster (by which a bill dies if he can’t get the support of 60 senators).

During the first six months of 2013, Congress has passed just 15 bills (http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/17449-why-we-have-a-do-nothing-congress) that were signed into law. This is eight fewer than in the first six months of 2012 and 19 fewer than in those of 2011.

Also, until the Senate recently threatened to reform the filibuster, the GOP had succeeded in holding up 79 of President Obama’s picks (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/05/30/as-gop-senators-block-obama-s-nominees-democrats-prepare-nuclear-option.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thedailybeast%2Farticles+%28T he+Daily+Beast+-+Latest+Articles%29) to the U.S. Circuit Court and Courts of Appeal. They’re blocking these appointments regardless of qualification.

Where’s the coverage? Where are the reporters asking why nothing is getting done?

*crickets*

10. The Citizens United Supreme Court decision

In a 2011 Hart poll (http://washspec.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/freespeechforpeople.org_sites_default_files_me1012 9b_public.pdf), only 22 percent of those polled had actually heard of the Citizens United decision before taking the survey.

If 77 percent believe that corporations have more control over our political process than people, why isn’t the liberal media talking more about the Citizens’ Uniteddecision?

11. Tax cuts primarily benefit the wealthy.

A progressive tax program is designed to tax people very little as they are starting out and progressively increase their rates as they do better.

Republican plans seem designed to do exactly the opposite: shift the tax burden off of the wealthy and onto working people.

Take the estate tax. In Ohio, this was recently repealed by Republicans (http://www.plunderbund.com/2013/05/29/senate-gop-adds-the-gordon-gekko-tax-cut-to-the-budget/). The benefit is only realized by people with estates larger than $338,000 (as the first $338,000 was exempt) and realized most by people with even wealthier estates.

This also explains why Republicans want to shift the system from income taxes to consumption taxes. Consumption taxes are paid most by those at the bottom as basic consumption remains the same regardless of income.

It also explains why capital gain taxes are so low. Income through capital gains is only taxed at 20 percent (increased from 15 percent in 2012) instead of at the rate of other income (closer to 35 percent).
It also explains why Republicans were Click here for more details (https://npo.networkforgood.org/Donate/Donate.aspx?npoSubscriptionId=1000983&uniqueID=633741903267522452). The payroll tax cut benefited people who were getting paid, not those issuing the paychecks. How much fight did you see to save this tax cut? None.

While tax cuts are sold to us as benefiting everyone, they really benefit a select few at the very top. If everyone knew who tax cuts really benefit, would so many people vote for them?

12. The impact of temporary workers.

The number of temporary workers has grown by more than 50 percent (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/08/us-companies-increasingly-turning-to-temporary-workers-to-fill-positions/) since the recession ended to nearly 2.7 million.

If freelancers, contract workers, and consultants are included, the number is nearly 17 million workers not directly employed by the companies who hire them. This equals 12 percent of the workforce.

What’s the impact of a “just in time” workforce on workers and our economy? How about that for a story “liberal media”?

13. Media consolidation

Six corporations—Time Warner, Disney, News Corporation, Viacom, Comcast, and CBS—control roughly 90 percent of the media (http://www.businessinsider.com/these-6-corporations-control-90-of-the-media-in-america-2012-6) in the U.S. These companies are in business to make a profit.

This is why you’ll find plenty of advertisements in the media. Entertainment? Check. Sports? Definitely. Weather? Yep.

You’ll also find plenty of “if it bleeds, it leads” stories designed to hook you in.

There’s also plenty of political bickering: Democrats said this, Republicans said that. We let you decide (but we never weigh in with any facts or fact-checking).

What won’t you hear?

You won’t hear the “liberal media” discuss the corporate media.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/here-are-13-things-everyone-would-know-if-we-really-had-a-liberal-media/

[TheGreatYacht]

Lmao there was a debate today? Fox business :lol

Repugs :lol

[TheGreatYacht]

Rubio seems like the only candidate that doesn't suffer from Aspergers

[rmt]

Rubio seems like the only candidate that doesn't suffer from Aspergers

Rubio is gonna be THE establishment candidate. He's got 4 young kids who are in private schools and who have to be put through college - to me, the most susceptible (on stage) to big donor influence because he doesn't have any money. Even Jeb - at least comes from money and his children are grown/independent. Kaisch is the most RINO, like a democrat (policy-wise). Not worried about Jeb or Kaisch - neither can win. When they both drop out, their money will go to Rubio.

I still hope for a Trump/Carson ticket. Trump because of the business/job experience and ability to get the independents, moderate/disenchanted democrats and Carson to get the evangelical vote. Both - the least likely to be corrupted by big donors - Trump's got his billions and Carson already at the top of his field.

[hater]

Lmao there was a debate today? Fox business :lol

Repugs :lol

Was forced to watch that shit. Trump barely said a couple words but was solid as usual.

Rubio steady as well. Rand Paul kicked ass all over d place. His best debate.

:lol Jeb he's a complete loser :lol

[TheGreatYacht]

Was forced to watch that shit. Trump barely said a couple words but was solid as usual.

Rubio steady as well. Rand Paul kicked ass all over d place. His best debate.

:lol Jeb he's a complete loser :lol
Only saw about 30 minutes, but Jeb has nowhere to go but up :lol

When is Trump going to after Carson? Tbh. He's the only man in his way but he seems scared of him. He already jobbed out and did a Hotline Bling sketch, said Kanye can be his VP, is he trying to pander to a certain demographic?

[hater]

Trump is a bad ass and a genius. He basically won the debate by saying the least. :tu he knows CNN is already doing the job for him by destroying Dr Huxtable

Can't say enough about Rand Paul. Dude hit it out of the park. If his poll #s don't shoot right up, then nothing else he does will help.

[rmt]

Trump is a bad ass and a genius. He basically won the debate by saying the least. :tu he knows CNN is already doing the job for him by destroying Dr Huxtable

Can't say enough about Rand Paul. Dude hit it out of the park. If his poll #s don't shoot right up, then nothing else he does will help.

Politico has had to backtrack on its lies. Nothing has been found on Carson. Almost everything has been vindicated including Yale classmate backing him up, newspaper article refuting accusation, etc. It's amazing that MSM prints all this stuff and then when it's refuted, they don't retract/they just forget it and leave the misconceptions out there. All the media attention hasn't affected his poll #s and has just added to his small donations - $3.5 million last week

Rand Paul should have pounded Rubio more on the child credit and trillion dollars. This is a repub debate - going up against military spending/isolationist stuff is not gonna help his poll numbers with repubs.

Trump made some mistakes but nothing seems to hurt him. He said that China is in the TPP and it isn't and he drew some boos for saying Fiorini is always interrupting.

Kaisch sounded like he was at a democratic debate.

[boutons_deux]

apart from the Politico screwup, what other Carson self-aggrandizing, God-given fantasies have been proven true?

bear whispering?

[boutons_deux]

10 Distortions, Misrepresentations and Outright Lies in the 4th GOP Debate

1. Eliminating The Income Tax Would Stop Outsourcing: Former Governor Mike Huckabee criticized outsourcing practices that have eliminated much of America's industrial base. But his solution was bizarre; he promoted the FairTax, which would eliminate the income tax and place a large sales tax on all sales. The number one reason companies outsource is for wage costs (http://svitla.com/blog/why-do-companies-outsource/) [3], not taxes – and it's unclear why Huckabee thinks spiking the costs of all purchases, which is what a national sales tax would do, would impact their behavior.

2. Claiming Fantasy Tax Rates: Governor Chris Christie claimed that the Democrats plan to raise tax rates to 70 to 80 percent – something no one running on the presidential ticket or in Congress has proposed.

3. Saying We Don't Give People Reason To Marry: Rick Santorum said we have incentivized people to “cohabitate” and not get married. In reality, there are between several hundred to over a thousand (http://www.hrc.org/resources/entry/an-overview-of-federal-rights-and-protections-granted-to-married-couples) [4], depending on how you count, of legal rights and even some tax incentives you have for being married.

4. Obscuring Louisiana's High Unemployment: Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal says there are a record number of Louisianans working. This is technically true, however it obscures the fact that while the largest number of Louisianans (http://www.nola.com/business/baton-rouge/index.ssf/2015/06/louisiana_unemployment_rate_at.html) [5] are working than ever before, that's largely a function of changing population; the unemployment rate is still higher than the national one (http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.la.htm) [6], and persistently higher than where it was pre-recession (http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-06-25/chart-louisiana-s-unemployment-rate-during-bobby-jindal-s-governorship) [7].

5. Claiming Only America Is Dealing With Syrian Refugees: Huckabee claimed that only America is being asked to deal with the refugee issue – ignoring the millions of refugees (http://www.worldvision.org/news-stories-videos/syria-war-refugee-crisis) [8] in countries neighboring Syria and hundreds of thousands in Europe.

( AMERICA CREATED the refugees )

6. Naming “Islamic Terrorism” As The Nation's Top Threat: Jeb Bush named Muslim terrorists as our biggest challenge, but terrorism kills very few Americans—dog bites are a bigger threat (http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/6-reasons-americans-should-stop-obsessing-over-threat-terrorist-attacks) [9].

( the top threats are Repugs / VRWC / 1% / Christian Sharia / MIC / BigCorp )

7. Claiming Christians Are Beheaded...In Lebanon?: Bush also claimed that Christians are being beheaded in Lebanon. Lebanon is actually one of the countries in the region where Christians are best integrated into society and government (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/08/lebanese-christian-party-rallies-representation-150812200456604.html) [10].

8. Flip Flopping On The Minimum Wage: In a move that moderators failed to call him on, Ben Carson said he is opposed (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/11/ben-carson-just-lied-about-raising-minimum-wage) [11] to raising the minimum wage – saying it would harm workers (which is false). But Carson has supported raising the wage (http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/241449-ben-carson-backs-raising-minimum-wage) [12] for months; it appears he decided to change his mind and pretend he never supported doing so.

9. Telling People The TPP Includes China: Donald Trump said that the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) was designed to have “China come through the back door” – but China isn't even part (http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/oct/05/trans-pacific-partnership-deal-reached-pacific-countries-international-trade) [13] of the TPP, as even Rand Paul seemed to know.

10. Inflating The Number Of Much-Maligned Philosophy Majors: Senator Marco Rubio implied that we have a problem of too many kids studying philosophy and not enough studying welding. As The Atlantic's David Graham noted (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/republican-debate-fox-business-milwaukee/415284/) [14], there are “23,210 philosophers (http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes251126.htm)[15] in the U.S. And 357,400 welders (http://www.bls.gov/ooh/production/welders-cutters-solderers-and-brazers.htm) [16].”

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/10-distortions-misrepresentations-and-outright-lies-4th-gop-debate?akid=13645.187590.CCYNyb&rd=1&src=newsletter1045597&t=2

btw, I heard on NPR that USA is missing 600K welders (even after the deployment of 1000s of much-feared robotic welders).

[boutons_deux]

http://images.dailykos.com/images/175578/story_image/TMW2015-11-11color.png?1447083272

[boutons_deux]

From: Press Credentials

Good afternoon,

If you are receiving this email we were unable to grant you a credential to cover the debate in Milwaukee on Tuesday, November 10th.

Please let us know if you have any further questions.

Thank you.
GOP.com

Dear GOP.com,

Your candidates are all mental incompetents, and the world would be a safer place if they were to fall down a cobalt mine and cannibalize one another.

Also, the race you're conducting this cycle to choose a party nominee is a train wreck unparalleled in the annals of modern democracy. There will be people laughing at your debate tonight in places like Belarus.

However, thank you for processing my request for a credential.

Sincerely,
Matt Taibbi
Rolling Stone Magazine

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-official-gop-debate-drinking-game-rules-pt-4-20151110#ixzz3rCqOMArS

[boutons_deux]

23 WTF Moments From the Fox Business GOP Debate

"I'll tell you about Wall Street — there's too much greed!" said John Kasich, former Lehman Brothers executive

1. "Welders make more money than philosophers. We need more welders than philosophers." -Marco Rubio on vocational education

2. "I don't have to hear from this man." -Donald Trump on John Kasich

3. "You should let Jeb speak." - Donald Trump to John Kasich

4. "Thank you, Donald, for letting me speak at the debate. That's really nice of you. What a generous man you are." -Jeb Bush to Donald Trump

5. "It took the telephone 75 years to reach 100 million users. It took Candy Crush one year to reach 100 million users." -Marco Rubio

6. "My mom is here, so I don't think we should be pushing any grannies off any cliffs." -Ted Cruz on Medicare

7. "The secret sauce of America is innovation and entrepreneurship." -Carly Fiorina

8. "There are more words in the IRS code than in the Bible." -Ted Cruz

9. "Five major agencies I would eliminate: the IRS, the Department of Commerce, the Department of Energy, uh, the Department of Commerce and HUD." -Ted Cruz

10. "Hey Gerard, we might want to point out that China is not part of this deal." -Rand Paul to moderator Gerard Baker, after Donald Trump's China-heavy answer on the Trans Pacific Partnership

11. "In order to make them look like losers, we have to destroy their caliphate." -Ben Carson on ISIS

12. "They blew up — hold it — they blew up — wait a minute — they blew up a Russian airplane." -Donald Trump fending off an interruption from Jeb Bush

13. "We shoulda given the oil, we shoulda given big chunks to the people that lost their arms, their legs, and their families and their sons and daughters." -Donald Trump on wounded warriors

14. "That's like playing Monopoly or something — that's not how the real world works." -Bush responding to Donald Trump's foreign policy plans

15. "I got to know him very well because we were both on 60 Minutes. We were stablemates, we did well that night." -Donald Trump on appearing on TV with Vladimir Putin. (They were on the same episode, just different continents (http://www.buzzfeed.com/christophermassie/tick-tick-tick-tick?utm_term=.ygaqvgoKY#.gtVwNXB5a).)

16. "I have met him as well — not in a green room for a show, but in a private meeting." -Carly Fiorina on meeting Putin, not in a green room for a show — a green room for a speaking engagement (https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/664283366523469824).

17. "I've never met Vladimir Putin, but I know enough to know he is a gangster. He is basically an organized crime figure." -Marco Rubio

18. "Why does she keep interrupting everyone?" - Donald Trump on Carly Fiorina

19. "We shouldn't have another financial crisis." - Jeb Bush

20. "I was in Washington, Iowa, about three months ago, talking about how bad Washington, D.C., is — it was, get the, kind of the… anyway." - Jeb Bush attempting, and abandoning, a joke

21. "I'll tell you about Wall Street — there's too much greed!" - John Kasich, former Lehman Brothers executive

22. "This is how socialism starts, ladies and gentlemen." -Carly Fiorina on the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau

23. "Dwight Eisenhower moved a million and a half illegal immigrants out of this country." -Donald Trump, on a program that was called "Operation Wetback (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/donald-trump-just-endorsed-operation-wetback-at-the-gop-debate-20151110)"

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/23-wtf-moments-from-the-fox-business-gop-debate-20151110?utm_source=newsletter&utm_content=daily&utm_campaign=111115_16&utm_medium=email

iow, the Repug self-unaware alternate reality of denying any and all facts, history, science, subscribed to by Repug politicians (and anti-politicians) and their voters.

[DarrinS]

Trump is a bad ass and a genius. He basically won the debate by saying the least. :tu he knows CNN is already doing the job for him by destroying Dr Huxtable

Can't say enough about Rand Paul. Dude hit it out of the park. If his poll #s don't shoot right up, then nothing else he does will help.


Trump is a pompous asshole and not very well informed. He got an instant bitch slap by Rand Paul, which was hilarious.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRTl230M4X8

[ElNono]

What I learned from the debate last night is that unless Rand Paul wins the nomination (extremely unlikely) we're going to have a neocon warhawk as our next president...

[DMX7]

Trump is a pompous asshole and not very well informed.

No, he's a job creator.

[rmt]

What I learned from the debate last night is that unless Rand Paul wins the nomination (extremely unlikely) we're going to have a neocon warhawk as our next president...

So you think that the repubs are going to win? I dunno. The democrats are very good at turning out in presidential elections and the electoral college is against the repubs. Heard a democrat commentator on the radio today say he feared a Rubio/Kaisch ticket most. I doubt the Kaisch part but Rubio will be the establishment choice with all the big donor money behind him.

[DarrinS]

So you think that the repubs are going to win? I dunno. The democrats are very good at turning out in presidential elections and the electoral college is against the repubs. Heard a democrat commentator on the radio today say he feared a Rubio/Kaisch ticket most. I doubt the Kaisch part but Rubio will be the establishment choice with all the big donor money behind him.

I think Elnono was commenting on his impression that Hillary is a neocon warhawk.

[rmt]

I think Elnono was commenting on his impression that Hillary is a neocon warhawk.

So she's not like Obama's laid back stance?

[DarrinS]

So she's not like Obama's laid back stance?

Her stance seems to be whatever is best for her, politically.

[ElNono]

So you think that the repubs are going to win? I dunno. The democrats are very good at turning out in presidential elections and the electoral college is against the repubs. Heard a democrat commentator on the radio today say he feared a Rubio/Kaisch ticket most. I doubt the Kaisch part but Rubio will be the establishment choice with all the big donor money behind him.

depends on the ticket


I think Elnono was commenting on his impression that Hillary is a neocon warhawk.

bingo

[ElNono]

I don't think the GOP can win without at least 30% of the latino vote, due to demographics. That makes Trump a loser in the general, IMO. Rubio is Cuban, which are generally disliked by latinos, BUT I feel he could swing enough of the family BS to resonate enough. Shillary is such a terrible candidate though, anything can happen...

[ElNono]

Rubio/Kashic would have a great shot, IMO... I know by today's standards Kashic sounds like a RINO, but that's what moderate Republicans always sounded, and frankly he sounds like the only guy that can get some of the dissatisfied dems votes from that crowd.

[boutons_deux]

all y'all's assholes want to "tax expend" $Bs on BigCorp and the 1%, but every one of them is against raising the minimum wage.

[DarrinS]

all y'all's assholes want to "tax expend" $Bs on BigCorp and the 1%, but every one of them is against raising the minimum wage.

What should it be raised to? It was something like $3 when I was working nin wage.

[DarrinS]

Shouldn't the goal be to left people to better jobs.?

[boutons_deux]

What should it be raised to? It was something like $3 when I was working nin wage.

$20 over 5 years, and indexed to inflation.

[boutons_deux]

Shouldn't the goal be to left people to better jobs.?

I repeat, if your business depends on paying poverty wages so that your employees incomes are topped up by taxpayers, then FUCK YOUR BUSINESS.

[DarrinS]

I repeat, if your business depends on paying poverty wages so that your employees incomes are topped up by taxpayers, then FUCK YOUR BUSINESS.

It was a poverty wage back when I made $3/hr. That's kinda why you do not make a career out of washing dishes or flipping burgers. And we shouldn't want people to stay in those jobs, either.

[Winehole23]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/11/surreal-debate-gets-surrealist-grades.html

[boutons_deux]

It was a poverty wage back when I made $3/hr. That's kinda why you do not make a career out of washing dishes or flipping burgers. And we shouldn't want people to stay in those jobs, either.

what is "back then $3" in today's dollars?

one of the many, many great Repug lies is that minimum wage jobs are stepping stones to great wealth. 100% minimum wages jobs are dead end jobs, not not only for teens.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/07/23/5-facts-about-the-minimum-wage/

[baseline bum]

So you think that the repubs are going to win? I dunno. The democrats are very good at turning out in presidential elections and the electoral college is against the repubs. Heard a democrat commentator on the radio today say he feared a Rubio/Kaisch ticket most. I doubt the Kaisch part but Rubio will be the establishment choice with all the big donor money behind him.

The electoral college is against the Republicans? Not sure if srs, it's much more beneficial to Republicans than a popular vote would be.

[Winehole23]

The electoral college is against the Republicans? Not sure if srs, it's much more beneficial to Republicans than a popular vote would be.http://www.270towin.com/

[Warlord23]

Rubio/Kashic would have a great shot, IMO... I know by today's standards Kashic sounds like a RINO, but that's what moderate Republicans always sounded, and frankly he sounds like the only guy that can get some of the dissatisfied dems votes from that crowd.

Agreed ... I think the probabilities of a Dem win will vary significantly based on the Rep ticket:

Rubio + Kasich / Paul / Pataki / Graham / other moderate - a 50:50 election
Rubio + Fiorina / Christie / Tea Party type - 60:40 Dem advantage
Bush or Cruz + any VP - 65:35 Dem advantage
Carson (won't happen) + any VP - 90:10 Dem advantage
Trump + any VP - not sure of this because Trump can attract and repel all kinds of people across the political spectrum. Could be anything between 50:50 and 65:35 for the Dems

[boutons_deux]

None of the Repug Klowns will sniff the White House.

[baseline bum]

What's funny is with such a shitty Dem candidate this should be an easy Repbulican win. But you could say the same in 2012. If the Republicans had any kind of decent candidate (like say HW Bush) they'd win this election in a landslide going against such a weak candidate in Clinton. But they'll probably actually lose to her. If W Bush hadn't destroyed Colin Powell's career with the mobile weapons lab crap, Powell would have been an easy two term president against the shit the Dems have.

[boutons_deux]

What's funny is with such a shitty Repug Klowns this will be an easy Dem win

Bernie said it: Hillary on her worst day is better than any Repug on his best day.

Bernie just can't stop with the truths.

Librul media, all owned by BigCrop, loves hyper-librul Bernie so much it ignores, ridicules, slimes him.

[hater]

Wrong. I would rather vote for trump or Paul over shillary
hell I might even consider voting for Rubio over the neocon bitch

Even if trump and Paul don't make it. I would just abstain from voting than giving that psycho bitch my vote

[baseline bum]

Wrong. I would rather vote for trump or Paul over shillary
hell I might even consider voting for Rubio over the neocon bitch

Even if trump and Paul don't make it. I would just abstain from voting than giving that psycho bitch my vote

Being able to veto the bullshit coming out of the house is the only reason I'll most likely vote for that twat.

[hater]

Being able to veto the bullshit coming out of the house is the only reason I'll most likely vote for that twat.

Good point

[boutons_deux]

rightwingnuts don't like Hillary because she's neocon?

while the entire Repug party, including the grifting Christ-like pastors, LOVE neoconnery, loved starting wars they can't finish, loves busting into countries. Hillary neocon? :lol

[rmt]

rightwingnuts don't like Hillary because she's neocon?

while the entire Repug party, including the grifting Christ-like pastors, LOVE neoconnery, loved starting wars they can't finish, loves busting into countries. Hillary neocon? :lol

Well, then, you shouldn't mind Trump. He's against wars, but if necessary and we go in, he'd take their oil to pay for the war and pay the vets/families.

[boutons_deux]

Well, then, you shouldn't mind Trump. He's against wars, but if necessary and we go in, he'd take their oil to pay for the war and pay the vets/families.

makes up shit as he goes along, there's NO CHANCE any of his shit will ever work

[hater]

Shillarys plan is to create a no fly zone :lol that's not happening unless you put boots on the ground and are willing to shoot down Russian planes. Batshit crazy neocon warmonger

[ElNono]

I'm not even talking about what I think it's best for the country or not. There's demographics at play here, and real numbers of base voters + center + growing "minorities" that make up the electorate.

It's hard for any party to, say, win Florida with less than 30% of hispanic voters. This is just today's reality. That's 29 electoral votes right there. The black vote will largely go Dem, per par.

The base alone won't get either party elected. They're going to need to cozy up to some of those center (which can be disenchanted with the Dems) + minorities to deliver the toss up states.

That's why guys like Cruz, who keeps saying they shouldn't move to the center at all, are unelectable, IMO.

[DarrinS]

I think Rubio would have the best chance

[djohn2oo8]

I think Rubio would have the best chance

Det boy gonna be choking and gasping for water in his debates with Hilldawg

[DarrinS]

Det boy gonna be choking and gasping for water in his debates with Hilldawg

Meh, maybe. She's no great debater, tbh.

[hater]

Meh, maybe. She's no great debater, tbh.

She got assrammed by Hussein Obama. What's this myth that she's a good dbater???

[boutons_deux]

If rightwingnuts haven't abandoned Carson and Trump by now, after all the shit they've spewed, they probably won't abandon them later, so probably one of them will get the nomination, unless RNC can stop them.

In any case, ALL the Repug klowns support the same pro-VRWC/1%/BigCorp shit and all the screw-the-99% shit.

[boutons_deux]

I think Rubio would have the best chance

Kuban and Krazy Kruz are duking it out for 2nd place, hoping that both Carson and Trump collapse.

[DarrinS]

Kuban and Krazy Kruz are duking it out for 2nd place, hoping that both Carson and Trump collapse.

Why do you spell their names with a K?

[boutons_deux]

Why do you spell their names with a K?

Klowns

[DarrinS]

Klowns


Is the "C" on you keyboard broken, kunt?

[Winehole23]

Trump shares with Carson the GOP’s vast anti-politics constituency, now fully half of the Republican electorate. Carson’s antidote to the nation’s failed politics is moral strength. Trump’s is unapologetic brute strength.Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/426991/fox-business-most-revealing-debate-so-far

[boutons_deux]

"Carson’s antidote to the nation’s failed politics is moral strength"

.... is religionists' detachment from physical, scientific, historical reality. Make up any old shit and believe it.

[Winehole23]

that's their rhetorical strength, believe it or not.

[Winehole23]

debate has rules. persuasion doesn't.