Boris instead of Duncan, Mills instead of Parker

[TDomination]

I would love to see Pop make a major change in the starting line up that i think would help both the first unit and the second unit.

New Starting Line Up Suggestion:

Mills
Green
Leonard
Diaw
Aldridge

BENCH:
Parker for Mills
Duncan for Aldridge
West for Diaw
Manu for Green/Leonard

This does 3 things that I think would be huge to our long term success

1) It keeps West and Diaw away from each other. Unless we are playing small ball, a lineup of west and diaw makes us grossly undersized in the middle. Boris is great playing off of a 7fter, and i feel that same goes for West.

2) The Big 3 play together. Yes This now creates the unimaginable scenario of the big 3 coming off the bench. But Parker knows how to play with Manu and Duncan. Their chemistry will obviously be there. Also a Duncan/Manu/Parker lineup should have success against the opponents second unit.

3) The starting lineup will see its assist increase. Ball movement is contagious and there is none better than Boris and Patty. With these 2 in the starting lineup, expect to see more 3's for danny green or leonard. Might see more stretch 4 plays with Diaw at the 3point line and letting Aldridge work the paint 1 on 1. Leonard is now good enough that we shouldn't worry how he gets his points. He will still get his.

As far as defense goes, Patty is scrappy enough that he makes up for his lack of size with pure hustle and is no worse than Parker.
We would still have our best wing defenders in Green and Leonard.
Boris is a big body that plays smart defense and I think would do fine.
LMA is the only one I would worry about. I feel it helps him a lot on defense having Duncan next to him so he would need to step up in this case to be able to defend well without Timmy.

With all that said, if this starting line up never happens (which it probably wont) i at least truly hope we see this lineup a lot more on the floor in every game.

And i really don't want to see Diaw and West in the game together anymore.

[DarrinS]

The idea has been floated before. I like it, tbh.

[100%duncan]

It's a good idea, imho. Biggest beneficiaries would be Danny, West, and Parker, but

1. Bad against teams with big guys as their best players, that's TD's assignment
2. Slows down our 2nd unit, which is usually the unit that wins the game for us.
3. As generous as Timmy has been so far in his career, does he accept a bench role?

[milkyway21]

TD played well tonight 11 pts 14 rbds..He needs to start.. when KL cannot dominate the boards

[dabom]

TD needs to start.

[DarrinS]

It's a good idea, imho. Biggest beneficiaries would be Danny, West, and Parker, but

1. Bad against teams with big guys as their best players, that's TD's assignment
2. Slows down our 2nd unit, which is usually the unit that wins the game for us.
3. As generous as Timmy has been so far in his career, does he accept a bench role?

My biggest concern would be #1

And Tim might actually thrive with 2nd unit

[Kuvai]

POP knows this.
He is gonna implement from GAME 3 in NBA FINALS if we are up by 2-0 or Gonna implement from game 4 if we are up by 2-1 or down by 1-2..

[SoonerSpur512]

TD needs to start as long as he's still playing

[HarlemHeat37]

He doesn't have to change the starting lineup, Pop could just do what he did tonight and play the hot units + play the matchups..

[SAGirl]

TD and LMA have been awkward at times next to each other. LMA is reduced to a spectator to everything else going on. TD grabs spots on the floor that LMA could make plays on. TD as it turns out is too much of an alpha, and has too much chemistry with everyone else that the ball constantly finds him in the starting lineup even for jumpshots at the top, which is a shot he would rather avoid and on post ups on the left side, which would rather have LMA take and not TD, since his efficiency in the post up is not what it used to be.

Tony seriously can't run whatever it is they intended to do and defaults to old habits I suspect. I feel whenever LMA plays with the bench guys they get him involved and he starts making plays. Its a problem for Pop to solve.

[Robz4000]

As long as he benches Parker when he's being a cancer and stops breaking up units that generate runs too early (like he did twice tonight and numerous other times over the the past four games), the team will be fine.

[100%duncan]

He doesn't have to change the starting lineup, Pop could just do what he did tonight and play the hot units + play the matchups..

Also, this.

[TheGreatYacht]

Why break up something that's starting to click? :lol

663952321655607296

[rasuo214]

There's really no need to change it but if you did I think West would need to be the starter over Diaw. Diaw is the better player but his chemistry with Manu and Parker makes him a better fit with them.

Really I'd keep the SL the same and if anything just bench TP and Duncan earlier in the 1st and 3rd quarters to bring in Patty and West/Diaw and then bring in TP and Duncan early 2nd/4th to play with Manu and company until Green, Kawhi and LMA come back in.

[GSH]

Tim is playing against the best big the opposing teams have, every night. If Boris had to start against those guys, you'd have a fucking coronary and die.

Tim STILL averages over 11 REB per 36 minutes. The very BEST Diaw has done for a season is about 7 REB per 36 minutes, and as a rule he averages about 5.5 boards per 36. Put Diaw into Tim's role, against the opponent's starting bigs, and the REB difference alone would have the Spurs in a hole to start every game.

Duncan STILL gets over 5 FTA per 36 minutes. Diaw gets about 1.7. Tim is playing a big man's game in the middle, and forcing defenders to foul him. Diaw is playing a totally different game, against much less skillful big men (on average). He's not grinding down beasts in the paint.

There's no substitute for a legitimate big man, especially at the start of games. Later in games, when the lineups are mixed on both sides, it's a different story. But in the early going, Tim is holding down the middle, and he's still one of the best in the league at it. Boris is an incredibly skilled player, and I love watching him do his thing. But he's not going to start for Duncan, unless Duncan is injured. Period.

[ajh18]

Really I'd keep the SL the same and if anything just bench TP and Duncan earlier in the 1st and 3rd quarters to bring in Patty and West/Diaw and then bring in TP and Duncan early 2nd/4th to play with Manu and company until Green, Kawhi and LMA come back in.

I agree with this. Basketball isn't hockey where we do full lineup shifts.

That said, if I REALLY wanted to change things, the best combo might just be to bring LMA in the second unit. He'd add scoring punch and has better chemistry with Manu and Boris. The first unit could then feature Kawhi, Tim, and Tony, with West playing the same role Boris did when Splitter was hurt in the starting lineup last year. Totally unrealistic as a scenario (no way Pop would bench LMA), but I'd like to see how those lineups played.

[GreggPopAsnitch]

I agree with this. Basketball isn't hockey where we do full lineup shifts.

That said, if I REALLY wanted to change things, the best combo might just be to bring LMA in the second unit. He'd add scoring punch and has better chemistry with Manu and Boris. The first unit could then feature Kawhi, Tim, and Tony, with West playing the same role Boris did when Splitter was hurt in the starting lineup last year. Totally unrealistic as a scenario (no way Pop would bench LMA), but I'd like to see how those lineups played.


I agree with you, he seems to have better chemistry with bobo and Manu. The spacing is also a lot better allowing him to get more touches. But he probably would throw a fit if he came off the bench.

[james evans]

As long as he benches Parker when he's being a cancer and stops breaking up units that generate runs too early (like he did twice tonight and numerous other times over the the past four games), the team will be fine.
I don't even start parker on nba2k.

[apalisoc_9]

I don't even start parker on nba2k.

I dont even play parker on nba2k..hes DNP if i am coach

[DeRozan m8]

Apalisoc_9 - of all the numbers you could have in your username, m8

[BillMc]

Eight of our top ten players are shooting over 50% from the field, with the exceptions being Danny and LMA (and Aldridge's % isn't that bad). Seems to me, except for the turnovers, our offence is becoming pretty efficient, even ahead of schedule. Meanwhile our defense is top 3 and our point differential is the second best in the league.

Are we really so swift to change things?

[ChumpDumper]

So the Spurs win the last two games by 18 and 20 points and they need to change the starting lineup?

What is wrong with you people?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Don't see any chance Pop does it.

Putting your star FA acquisition at the center position fulltime when he's declined interviews in the summer only because of this notion would be crazy. Duncan provides more rim protection in the starting unit and allows Aldridge to guard the more mobile PFs, which he's doing quite well. Playing Boris with Aldridge would force Kawhi to play even closer to the basket too. Would probably work a bit better offensively but not enough to outweigh the drop defensively.

This would also force Duncan to play on the low post much more often with the second unit, which seems something Pop is avoiding like the plague - he's been consistently put on the high post to preserve him. Parker would be even worse on the second unit where the ball would be in Manu's hands and he'd have to play off of it, which would clog the lane as the only real 3 point threat would be the primary ballhandler.

I'd say Pop should try taking Duncan off a bit earlier in games where things aren't going smoothly for the 1st unit and trying to pair him more with Boris with the second unit, e.g. inserting him back by the end of the first and early in the 2nd quarter, when there's more time to rest due to game stopages. Then taking Duncan off at the 8th or 9th minute mark of the second quarter, putting Aldridge back in and having Duncan play the final 4-5 minutes with Aldridge again.

[100%duncan]

I dont even play parker on nba2k..hes DNP if i am coach

Parker is still fast on 2k but I make sure I pad Tim and Kawhi's ppg tbh :wakeup

[Fireball]

Pop will not take Timmy out of the starting lineup ... never. But I really would like to take him and Tony out after 5 minutes, then insert Diaw and Mills. Play LMA nearly the whole first quarter. Then Duncan/Parker come back to support the 2nd unit. In the first half Timmy can have a longer 2nd stint not playing the end of the half. That rotation can be tricky in the 2nd half because you want to play Tim at crunchtime.

But really playing West/Diaw together has to be minimized. More LMA + Manu + Mills should help LMA.

And Kawhi can play with everybody!!!

[Russo21]

I like that starting lineup but LMA has stated he doesn't want to be specified as a Centre. I suppose the main thing is Pop recognising what is working best on a game by game basis and go by that. As was stated a million times in Manu's prime when he was coming off the bench, it doesn't matter who starts but rather who is playing when the game is on the line.

[DarrinS]

Tim is playing against the best big the opposing teams have, every night. If Boris had to start against those guys, you'd have a fucking coronary and die.

Tim STILL averages over 11 REB per 36 minutes. The very BEST Diaw has done for a season is about 7 REB per 36 minutes, and as a rule he averages about 5.5 boards per 36. Put Diaw into Tim's role, against the opponent's starting bigs, and the REB difference alone would have the Spurs in a hole to start every game.

Duncan STILL gets over 5 FTA per 36 minutes. Diaw gets about 1.7. Tim is playing a big man's game in the middle, and forcing defenders to foul him. Diaw is playing a totally different game, against much less skillful big men (on average). He's not grinding down beasts in the paint.

There's no substitute for a legitimate big man, especially at the start of games. Later in games, when the lineups are mixed on both sides, it's a different story. But in the early going, Tim is holding down the middle, and he's still one of the best in the league at it. Boris is an incredibly skilled player, and I love watching him do his thing. But he's not going to start for Duncan, unless Duncan is injured. Period.


Good points

[DarrinS]

So the Spurs win the last two games by 18 and 20 points and they need to change the starting lineup?

What is wrong with you people?


Yeah, if it ain't broken...

[T_L_P]

Tim is playing against the best big the opposing teams have, every night. If Boris had to start against those guys, you'd have a fucking coronary and die.

Tim STILL averages over 11 REB per 36 minutes. The very BEST Diaw has done for a season is about 7 REB per 36 minutes, and as a rule he averages about 5.5 boards per 36. Put Diaw into Tim's role, against the opponent's starting bigs, and the REB difference alone would have the Spurs in a hole to start every game.

Duncan STILL gets over 5 FTA per 36 minutes. Diaw gets about 1.7. Tim is playing a big man's game in the middle, and forcing defenders to foul him. Diaw is playing a totally different game, against much less skillful big men (on average). He's not grinding down beasts in the paint.

There's no substitute for a legitimate big man, especially at the start of games. Later in games, when the lineups are mixed on both sides, it's a different story. But in the early going, Tim is holding down the middle, and he's still one of the best in the league at it. Boris is an incredibly skilled player, and I love watching him do his thing. But he's not going to start for Duncan, unless Duncan is injured. Period.

Agreed. I have no idea why the OP would suggest benching Tim, especially with his username.

The defense is bad enough with him off the floor against 2nd units. Imagine what would happen if we asked LMA and Diaw to try and defend other teams' 1st units?

[Agloco]

Eight of our top ten players are shooting over 50% from the field, with the exceptions being Danny and LMA (and Aldridge's % isn't that bad). Seems to me, except for the turnovers, our offence is becoming pretty efficient, even ahead of schedule. Meanwhile our defense is top 3 and our point differential is the second best in the league.

Are we really so swift to change things?

This. Why do things need to change at all?

[TDomination]

So the Spurs win the last two games by 18 and 20 points and they need to change the starting lineup?

What is wrong with you people?

Nothing, just trying to see this more from a big picture standpoint. Slow starts to beginning of game and beginning of 3rd quarter have been apparent.

and tbh the last 2 games have been close until the 3rd and 4th quarter. We won those in spite a slow start. It was Manu green and mills 3 pt show against the hornets and last night it was when patty/green/Leonard/Boris/Lma were on the court that they stretched the lead.

[SpursNW]

I really like this option. Since Pop would be reluctant to "bench" Duncan and Parker in a perceived 2nd team slight, implementing for select games, vice permanent, would be a good start. Patty will have to be consistent.

[J_Paco]

Tim is playing against the best big the opposing teams have, every night. If Boris had to start against those guys, you'd have a fucking coronary and die.

Tim STILL averages over 11 REB per 36 minutes. The very BEST Diaw has done for a season is about 7 REB per 36 minutes, and as a rule he averages about 5.5 boards per 36. Put Diaw into Tim's role, against the opponent's starting bigs, and the REB difference alone would have the Spurs in a hole to start every game.

Duncan STILL gets over 5 FTA per 36 minutes. Diaw gets about 1.7. Tim is playing a big man's game in the middle, and forcing defenders to foul him. Diaw is playing a totally different game, against much less skillful big men (on average). He's not grinding down beasts in the paint.

There's no substitute for a legitimate big man, especially at the start of games. Later in games, when the lineups are mixed on both sides, it's a different story. But in the early going, Tim is holding down the middle, and he's still one of the best in the league at it. Boris is an incredibly skilled player, and I love watching him do his thing. But he's not going to start for Duncan, unless Duncan is injured. Period.

Quoted for truth and to emphasis the point. The team is going to struggle and go through rough patches do to trying to involve LaMarcus while still giving Kawhi his touches. Moving the more traditional PG/playmaker and only quality center on the roster to the bench won't improve or alleviate that issue.

[bklynspursfan]

TD can just sub out earlier and get Diaw in there. Especially if the offense is stagnant. LMA seems to be playing most of or all the 1st, so he gets his share of time w/the 2nd unit.

I'd love to see Duncan and LMA get some chemistry, and it'll only happen by playing together. The hi-lo game potential is there for those 2.

[FromWayDowntown]

The fascination with tweaking the lineup is absolutely lost on me.

You have an absolutely devastating bench group at this point that can basically play intuitively on the offensive end.

You have a starting lineup that has 2 guys who are capable of being high-level scorers (one of whom is also among the 3 best defensive basketball players on the planet and the other of whom has been a good rebounder along with offering a clear offensive threat at all times), a wizard for a defensive big who can score as necessary but is seemingly content to just board and bang and take a lot of pressure off of the scoring big, and a floor spacer who commands attention even when he's missing shots.

The schedule has been fairly soft -- true -- but only 2 teams in the league have better records (GST and CLE) and only 1 team has a better scoring differential (GST) while the Spurs' starters are still getting acclimated.

I'm not sure why, in the face of those things, anyone would think that the "solution" is to shake up the rotation in some dramatic way.

Particularly because Pop has shown a willingness already to mix and match pieces to fit particular situations against particular opponents and in particular game situations while he figures out what works and what doesn't in terms of player groupings.

[kaji157]

I think that just benching Tommy is better because it forces Tony to fit with Aldridge and, let´s face it, Tony is not going anywhere for 3 years so we better do this now.
Also would allow us a bit more sacing and Diaw can be the creator for the starting five.

Duncan and West seem to be the best "west pairing" and Manu/Duncan pick n roll opens up marvellous things for us.

Plus is a heck of defensive second unit.

EDIT: That said, i´d like the idea of the Big 3 winning a championship coming of the bench and still playing important role, it would be the epitome of the spurs culture. (minus the wife fucking)

[SAGirl]

TD/LMA have actually just been bit by a large number of offensive fouls called on alleged moving screens. They lost a number of possessions in the 3rd Q of the SAC game due to that. Then there is the occasional Tony or Danny TO, so all those mistakes have cost them possessions. In the Wiz game the number of mistakes by everyone was overwhelming, so the Spurs basically beat themselves. In the OKC game, mistakes cost them the game as well.

I do feel like LMA is not fully integrated. He could be playing with the starters for 7 minutes and unless they call a play for him all he gets are desperation long shots sometimes contested, as the clock is running down. It's really been the most disappointing. He's been playing a Tiago role with the exception of being allowed to take long shots when the clock is running down. LMA has opened things up for Kawhi, so Kawhi is better this year than last, without Tiago/Baynes in the paint, but for LMA I don't think we are taking advantage of him sufficiently.

The second unit obviously moves the ball a lot better, and there is also a lot of player off-the ball movement and setting of screens. There is also a lot more passing, and better passers so LMA does end up with good looks, but so does every big man who plays with the 2nd unit.

I am starting to think what we are seeing in the 1st unit is how its going to be, and just getting a little bit disillusioned that we payed for a markee player to use him as a role player.

[Keepin' it real]

I am starting to think what we are seeing in the 1st unit is how its going to be, and just getting a little bit disillusioned that we payed for a markee player to use him as a role player.

Patience is a virtue.

[spursistan]

meh..Duncan isn't going to the bench..too premature to even think about rejiggering the SL..don't rock the boat, tbh..Second seed out West; 3rd best D in league and 2nd point differential-- and on whole -9 points from having 7-0 start..The shcedule was soft, but i will take what'is given to me..

[ajh18]

Realistically, we aren't benching Tim, or LMA, or Parker.

But I think a lineup/rotation like this would accomplish something similar.

Q1
12:00: Duncan, LMA, Kawhi, Green, Parker
8:00: Diaw, LMA, Kawhi, Green, Mills
6:00: Diaw, LMA, Kawhi, Manu, Mills
2:00: Duncan, West, Green, Manu, Parker

Q2
10:00: Duncan, West, Anderson, Green, Parker
8:00: Diaw, West, Kawhi, Green, Mills
6:00: Diaw, LMA, Kawhi, Green, Mills
4:00: Duncan, LMA, Kawhi, Manu, Parker

The result is the following minute breakdown:

Kawhi: 18/half, 36/game
LMA: 16/half, 32/game
Green: 16/half, 32/game
Duncan: 14/half, 28/game
Parker: 14/half, 28/game
Manu: 12/half, 24/game
Diaw: 10/half, 20/game
Mills: 10/half, 20/game
West: 8/half, 16/game
Anderson/Butler: 2/half, 4/game

Advantages of this rotation would be:

Parker always on the court with Duncan
LMA gets plenty of time as a/the main scorer in the second unit
Minimal West/Diaw time together
Minimal Anderson/Butler time, but can rest Kawhi a couple extra minutes if need-be

[RD2191]

Tbh to me this season is gravy. I'm not expecting a championship. I see it more as Timmy passing the torch to LMA and retiring when the season is over.

[keeferob25]

Tbh to me this season is gravy. I'm not expecting a championship. I see it more as Timmy passing the torch to LMA and retiring when the season is over.

Agreed on the gravy part. The greatest ride ever. But totally disagree on Timmy retiring once the season is over. I think he plays one more after this year. Hell I think depending on how far they get and how well he holds up that Manu might even return for one more. He looks terrific so far. But its still early as hell lol

[SAGirl]

Minimal Anderson/Butler time, but can rest Kawhi a couple extra minutes if need-be


Interesting except Pop has been giving 4-6 minutes to Anderson bringing him to close out the 1st and start the 2nd and he's been using Butler as an X-factor of sorts, playing him as a stretch 4 when things are all bundled up with too many guys in the paint (a problem with Anderson unfortunately, but also with the Diaw/West combo of bigs) and occasionally as a 3, so I don't think you will be able to restrict play time to either guy to 2 to 4 minutes for one of them, but not both. I think realistically speaking both will play around 4-8 minutes, closer to 4 for Anderson and closer to 8 for Butler, if everyone is healthy. I don't think Pop will completely eliminate Anderson from the rotation this early, bc the young man has improved a whole lot and needs some playing time to be evaluated realistically speaking. Butler has been incredible in limited minutes and as a stretch 4 will probably continue to be used strategically.

I do agree with other aspects, like minimal Diaw/West time together. I think that is just a RS lineup Pop is trotting out to rest TD and to not overuse LMA as a center, but come playoff time, we will not see those two together.

[Dex]

The greatest Spurs of all time is not coming off the bench, especially when he is still playing at a high level. Put down the crack pipe.

[cjw]

Point on "increasing assists" - 62% of field goals have been assisted, behind only GS, ATL, MIL, CLE and BOS (64 to 70%). Ball movement is not the problem here.

As others have mentioned, the Spurs have a top three defense and have an elite point differential so far. In their two losses, they had a chance to win both games so no huge red flags came out of them. No need to change something that appears to be working. Not to mention working despite significant offseason changes. Remember how long it took for the '10 Heat to click?

[TDfan2007]

Tim is playing against the best big the opposing teams have, every night. If Boris had to start against those guys, you'd have a fucking coronary and die.

Tim STILL averages over 11 REB per 36 minutes. The very BEST Diaw has done for a season is about 7 REB per 36 minutes, and as a rule he averages about 5.5 boards per 36. Put Diaw into Tim's role, against the opponent's starting bigs, and the REB difference alone would have the Spurs in a hole to start every game.

Duncan STILL gets over 5 FTA per 36 minutes. Diaw gets about 1.7. Tim is playing a big man's game in the middle, and forcing defenders to foul him. Diaw is playing a totally different game, against much less skillful big men (on average). He's not grinding down beasts in the paint.

There's no substitute for a legitimate big man, especially at the start of games. Later in games, when the lineups are mixed on both sides, it's a different story. But in the early going, Tim is holding down the middle, and he's still one of the best in the league at it. Boris is an incredibly skilled player, and I love watching him do his thing. But he's not going to start for Duncan, unless Duncan is injured. Period.

This. All of this.

[td4mvp2k]

I dont even play parker on nba2k..hes DNP if i am coachI wouldnt want to play with 4 vs 5 either :tu