Evan Fournier...

[apalisoc_9]

If manu decides to retire next year, I wouldnt mind fournier replacing him for the third scoring guy.

He is RFA next year but 14per should make orlando hesitate in matching imo. Hoping Tobias Harris stays with orlando so can chuck and lower fournier value

- Very good penetrator
- Great off the ball movement
- Servicable D
- Decent three point shooter
- Age 22-23...

His ability to penetrate and willingness to pass is perfect for a third guy...

I mentioned him in possible trade for last year...

Boris and Tony, do us a favour and glrecruit this kid

[spurraider21]

No need, Parker can just assume more playmaking duty to replace Manu.

[Gladney to see you]

He is a quicker Anderson

[K...]

No need, Parker can just assume more playmaking duty to replace Manu.

You mean ka and Simmons,, summer league champs, becoming starters.

This is a good thread but it's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to early to plan for next year when there is so much going on now.

[TheMulletMan3000]

If manu decides to retire next year, I wouldnt mind fournier replacing him for the third scoring guy.

He is RFA next year but 14per should make orlando hesitate in matching imo. Hoping Tobias Harris stays with orlando so can chuck and lower fournier value

- Very good penetrator
- Great off the ball movement
- Servicable D
- Decent three point shooter
- Age 22-23...

His ability to penetrate and willingness to pass is perfect for a third guy...

I mentioned him in possible trade for last year...

Boris and Tony, do us a favour and glrecruit this kid

bob voulgaris tweeted about how good he is this year and how his game reminds him of young manu.

[apalisoc_9]

bob voulgaris tweeted about how good he is this year and how his game reminds him of young manu.

He is not as crafty on the drive and an inferior passer, but hr is 22

[TheMulletMan3000]

He is not as crafty on the drive and an inferior passer, but hr is 22

manu is also a good defender. even now.

[Chinook]

Nah. If the Spurs want him, they have to make the trade this season. Something like Anderson (sorry SAGirl ) and a small asset may work, though the Magic seem to really want more shooting.

Run with Butler as the situational backup three, with Fournier getting third-wing minutes and Manu getting the rest. Then, if Manu hangs them up next season, have Leonard and Green as the starters and Fournier, and one or Bertans, LJC or a draft pick as the backup three. Maybe bring in a vet like Butler (or just re-sign Rasual).

Would kill the team's 2017 free-agent prospects, though.

[ElNono]

You're not replacing a HoF talent with any youngster, tbh... that said, I would take Beli back over Fournier for that role...

[ChumpDumper]

Nah. If the Spurs want him, they have to make the trade this season. Something like Anderson (sorry SAGirl ) and a small asset may work, though the Magic seem to really want more shooting.Given Fournier's production so far, that offer for him seems laughable.

[jon123spurs]

And please for God's sake DO NOT GOOGLE HIS LAST NAME.

No really don't do it. I'm warning you.
DON'T. DO. IT

[HarlemHeat37]

And please for God's sake DO NOT GOOGLE HIS LAST NAME.

No really don't do it. I'm warning you.
DON'T. DO. IT
:lol he has one of the top 3 nicknames, right now, tbh..

[td4mvp2k]

You're not replacing a HoF talent with any youngster, tbh... that said, I would take Beli back over Fournier for that role...

[TheMulletMan3000]

And please for God's sake DO NOT GOOGLE HIS LAST NAME.

No really don't do it. I'm warning you.
DON'T. DO. IT

oh god it's almost worse than blue waffle.

[Chinook]

Given Fournier's production so far, that offer for him seems laughable.

I don't know if the Magic even want to keep him. They have Oladipo, Hezongia and Harris at the wings already. Getting a cheap player who can is a play-maker doesn't seem all that bad. I don't think I'd add a first-rounder to Anderson for Fournier (the dude is really streaky), but I might be persuaded to give up one of Bertans and LJC in the deal. More than that, and you just ride with Anderson/rookie SG in the second unit.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't know if the Magic even want to keep him. They have Oladipo, Hezongia and Harris at the wings already. Getting a cheap player who can is a play-maker doesn't seem all that bad. I don't think I'd add a first-rounder to Anderson for Fournier (the dude is really streaky), but I might be persuaded to give up one of Bertans and LJC in the deal. More than that, and you just ride with Anderson/rookie SG in the second unit.If they want to play Harris at the wing, they'll probably want to trade Fournier for a PF that can start now.

[SAGirl]

I haven't really watched him, except spot minutes and didn't notice anything about him other than his hair, so I am indifferent.
That said, if the Spurs were to acquire him, and he's a nice young passer, I would probably end up loving him... :downspin:

I do love Anderson for us down the road, but he's undeveloped.

I am cautious in getting excited about assets for next year bc everyone will be in the market for a huge payday, and somehow I don't expect we will be able to get through the market with someone real nice... (but maybe you don't mean Fournier is real nice)...

[SAGirl]

Nah. If the Spurs want him, they have to make the trade this season. Something like Anderson (sorry SAGirl (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=49524) ) and a small asset may work, though the Magic seem to really want more shooting.

Run with Butler as the situational backup three, with Fournier getting third-wing minutes and Manu getting the rest. Then, if Manu hangs them up next season, have Leonard and Green as the starters and Fournier, and one or Bertans, LJC or a draft pick as the backup three. Maybe bring in a vet like Butler (or just re-sign Rasual).

Would kill the team's 2017 free-agent prospects, though.
I can't see the Magic trading him for Anderson. Anderson is really kind of an acquired taste and everyone and their mother passed up on him in the draft. That said, he is intriguing, that size and length have turned out better defensively than people thought, and that was one of the big knocks against him in the draft. If scouts thought he would have been able to defend, I doubt he would have been available at 30 where we got him. Still he is unproven, Pop would have to play him more to increase his trade value, but they seem to be bringing him along slowly.

If he could shoot a decent 3, I am sure there would be a market for him, but in that case would Pop really trade him? Heck, last year I thought CoJo might have been able to fetch us something, and we really were not going to be able to retain him. But I see that Pop really wanted to keep CoJo unless it was absolutely impossible to keep him, which it was.

[313]

And please for God's sake DO NOT GOOGLE HIS LAST NAME.

No really don't do it. I'm warning you.
DON'T. DO. IT
You made me do it

[313]

Hadn't watched him play before this year. Aside from those two good games, he's looked pretty awful.

[Brazil]

Fournier is a good prospect tbh... I thought he would be a bust in the nba but he is quite serviceable and is improving so yeah I would not mind another Frenchie in a Spur jersey :lol

[HI-FI]

If getting Fournier means Brazil remains a SpursFan, you pull the trigger imo.

[Othyus Lalanne]

Could gay haters here stand him. He is the most gigolo looking player in the current NBA. I guess he has that going for him.

[Kawhitstorm]

I don't know if the Magic even want to keep him. They have Oladipo, Hezongia and Harris at the wings already. Getting a cheap player who can is a play-maker doesn't seem all that bad. I don't think I'd add a first-rounder to Anderson for Fournier (the dude is really streaky), but I might be persuaded to give up one of Bertans and LJC in the deal. More than that, and you just ride with Anderson/rookie SG in the second unit.

The Magic really like him, they gave up Affalo after he had a boarder-line All-Star season to get him despite already having Oladipo on the roster & drafting Payton on that day. They might give up Andrew Nicholson for Kyle but not Fournier when they already have Gordon/Harris/Hezongia who are all capable of playing the wing position.

The only reason they might trade Fournier is if they fear that they can't re-sign him.

[apalisoc_9]

The Magic really like him, they gave up Affalo after he had a boarder-line All-Star season to get him despite already having Oladipo on the roster & drafting Payton on that day. They might give up Andrew Nicholson for Kyle but not Fournier when they already have Gordon/Harris/Hezongia who are all capable of playing the wing position.

The only reason they might trade Fournier is if they fear that they can't re-sign him.

They probably cant, but i am guessing they are committed on him otherwise the trade would have not happened. I think anywhere from 12-14 should put enough pressure on the magic...but i am not not sure if his potential is worth that money..8-10 and an expected cap rise in 17 would be nice bit thats easily matchable.

[Spurtacular]

If manu decides to retire next year, I wouldnt mind fournier replacing him for the third scoring guy.

He is RFA next year but 14per should make orlando hesitate in matching imo. Hoping Tobias Harris stays with orlando so can chuck and lower fournier value

- Very good penetrator
- Great off the ball movement
- Servicable D
- Decent three point shooter
- Age 22-23...

His ability to penetrate and willingness to pass is perfect for a third guy...

I mentioned him in possible trade for last year...

Boris and Tony, do us a favour and glrecruit this kid

You really like a guy that can penetrate, don't you?

[Kawhitstorm]

They probably cant, but i am guessing they are committed on him otherwise the trade would have not happened. I think anywhere from 12-14 should put enough pressure on the magic...but i am not not sure if his potential is worth that money..8-10 and an expected cap rise in 17 would be nice bit thats easily matchable.

They gave Harris 16mill per, so there is no reason why Fournier couldn't get 12 mill w/ the increasing cap considering guys like Reggie Jackson/Bledsoe getting the max. Dragic/Brandon Knight also got overpaid.

[Kawhitstorm]

You really like a guy that can penetrate, don't you?

You really like guys that can shoot their loads on your face, don't you?

[Spurtacular]

He is RFA next year..

Young quality RFAs almost always get matched. That right there should've clicked and caused you to not make this thread. But in your zeal to pretend you have actual basketball analysis to contribute, you posted anyways.

[apalisoc_9]

They gave Harris 16mill per, so there is no reason why Fournier couldn't get 12 mill w/ the increasing cap considering guys like Reggie Jackson/Bledsoe getting the max. Dragic/Brandon Knight also got overpaid.

I thought harrisbhas been a much bigger.part of their team than evan
...idc. If possible though, it would be nice. It looks like he a huge part of their offense now though.

[SpursBig3s]

Nah. If the Spurs want him, they have to make the trade this season. Something like Anderson (sorry SAGirl (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=49524) ) and a small asset may work, though the Magic seem to really want more shooting.

Run with Butler as the situational backup three, with Fournier getting third-wing minutes and Manu getting the rest. Then, if Manu hangs them up next season, have Leonard and Green as the starters and Fournier, and one or Bertans, LJC or a draft pick as the backup three. Maybe bring in a vet like Butler (or just re-sign Rasual).

Would kill the team's 2017 free-agent prospects, though.


Chinook, do you think this is the year we draft a PG and "groom" him to be Parker's successor? or is that not likely because were gonna draft too low, or is McCallum that guy... you seem to have a better grasp on these sorts of things

[SAGirl]

We have not even considered why this guy would even come here to play behind Kawhi and Danny, when he's already starting for the Magic and an important guy for them. I didn't really know about this guy, bc I don't watch the Magic, but for sure he's a guy they like. No way is he at 23 years old going to come here to be in our bench. That is ridiculous from his perspective.

A breakdown with film of his strengths: http://www.nba.com/magic/news/film-room-evan-fourniers-strengths
Good scoring in transition
Good spot up shooter from 3,
Currently guarding the other team's best player
Good driving to the basket and finishing at 53% on those plays

It doesn't mention his passing at all, but maybe they don't value that.. and Payton does a lot for them setting up what they want to do.

A guy like that sounds like a trade for Danny Green TBH, not Anderson, which would not happen bc family, chemistry, fit, character, etc.

[cjw]

Where the Spurs are drafting, first round picks are so far from a sure thing that I have no aversion to trading them away if PATFO wants an asset that badly. They haven't drafted inside of 20 since 1997 after all (Kawhi was a trade). Can't expect these guys to all turn into serviceable players like Tiago, Hill and Joseph and even if they do, whatever asset you get today while the window is open is worth what you're giving up. It's not a situation like the Nets where you're a marginal playoff team and giving up first rounders five years out when you could be (and are) awful.

[SAGirl]

Where the Spurs are drafting, first round picks are so far from a sure thing that I have no aversion to trading them away if PATFO wants an asset that badly. They haven't drafted inside of 20 since 1997 after all (Kawhi was a trade). Can't expect these guys to all turn into serviceable players like Tiago, Hill and Joseph and even if they do, whatever asset you get today while the window is open is worth what you're giving up. It's not a situation like the Nets where you're a marginal playoff team and giving up first rounders five years out when you could be (and are) awful.

I agree with you on the flipping of assets, but the Spurs have kept up their long standing run because they don't throw away the picks without it being a really, really worth reason, which I am not sure we even need.

Like I said above, Anderson is not this guy's equivalent, even in projection, and they have Payton who's been a terrific passer and PG who can't shoot kind of same as Anderson but better.

Anderson is really not a trade chip that would entice many teams at this point. He's got to develop to be worth something to someone.

The one guy you could flip for him is Danny Green, which won't happen bc Danny is part of the fabric of the team at this point, and from the Magic's perspective, Fournier is a lot more versatile than our Danny, can do many more things better, and he's 23. Fournier also doesn't have the benefit of playing with Kawhi, meaning he does take the toughest assignments on D on a nightly basis.

I haven't seen him though, so he could be overhyped, but he's definitely not a guy that would come from the bench or that you would trade for Anderson that is for sure.

It may be that when Manu does retire, at that point the team will make a move, but that is getting ahead of ourselves.

[Chinook]

Chinook, do you think this is the year we draft a PG and "groom" him to be Parker's successor? or is that not likely because were gonna draft too low, or is McCallum that guy... you seem to have a better grasp on these sorts of things

I was really on the George Lucas de Paula bandwagon during the draft. So yes, I think it's time to draft a new PG. McCallum will probably be re-signed, though, because the Spurs are actually likely to be over the cap next season even with the explosion.

[Brazil]

If getting Fournier means Brazil remains a SpursFan, you pull the trigger imo.

:lol

appreciated bro

[Chinook]

We have not even considered why this guy would even come here to play behind Kawhi and Danny, when he's already starting for the Magic and an important guy for them.

If we're talking about trading for him, then Fournier's opinion doesn't really matter. He'd be an RFA in July, and the Spurs would have right of first refusal. Unless he goes back overseas, he'd be a Spurs for at least another year, and you can argue that two years of Fournier is better than three years of Anderson.


A guy like that sounds like a trade for Danny Green

That makes no sense. You don't trade a better player if you don't have to. Either Fournier or Green off the bench would be better than Anderson. That's a three-man wing rotation you could run with for six more years. Plus, Green makes $10 Million a year. The Magic would have to trade more salary to the Spurs to make the numbers work. From the Spurs' perspective, it's a non-starter because they aren't going to take back a crap ballast contract for their starting two-guard. From the Magic's perspective, they aren't going to add the value it takes to get Green, and if they are trading Fournier away so they don't have to pay him, they aren't going to use assets just to pay Green seven figures a year.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

You mean ka and Simmons,, summer league champs, becoming starters.

This is a good thread but it's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to early to plan for next year when there is so much going on now.

Fournier is a SG. Simmons is more of a SF. So yes, I am sure the Spurs will way their option once Manu decides to hang up his shoes. Who knows, he might play another year, especially if Duncan decides to give it a go one more year, and especially if the Spurs win the title this year.

[YGWHI]

Nah. If the Spurs want him, they have to make the trade this season. Something like Anderson (sorry SAGirl (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=49524) ) and a small asset may work, though the Magic seem to really want more shooting.
Not sure why they'd want Kyle when they have Harris and a tweener Gordon...

[Kawhitstorm]

If we're talking about trading for him, then Fournier's opinion doesn't really matter. He'd be an RFA in July, and the Spurs would have right of first refusal. Unless he goes back overseas, he'd be a Spurs for at least another year, and you can argue that two years of Fournier is better than three years of Anderson.

Why in the hell would they want Anderson? Skiles is a defensive coach & Gordon is a much better defender than Kyle who will probably be playing behind Hezongia and Harris. He's playing wack ass Dewayne Dedmon over Andrew Nicholson b/c Nicholson is a mediocre defender just like Kyle.

PATFO could try offering Kyle for Ben McLemore b/c the King obviously have no clue what they are doing & Vlade would have a natural affinity to Kyle's game:lol



That makes no sense. You don't trade a better player if you don't have to. Either Fournier or Green off the bench would be better than Anderson. That's a three-man wing rotation you could run with for six more years. Plus, Green makes $10 Million a year. The Magic would have to trade more salary to the Spurs to make the numbers work. From the Spurs' perspective, it's a non-starter because they aren't going to take back a crap ballast contract for their starting two-guard. From the Magic's perspective, they aren't going to add the value it takes to get Green, and if they are trading Fournier away so they don't have to pay him, they aren't going to use assets just to pay Green seven figures a year.

They could do a sign-and-trade thus the Magic won't have to give up an additional asset.

[Kawhitstorm]

I was really on the George Lucas de Paula bandwagon during the draft. So yes, I think it's time to draft a new PG. McCallum will probably be re-signed, though, because the Spurs are actually likely to be over the cap next season even with the explosion.

The best target would be Schroder in the summer 2017. Patty is going to be a free agent & Tony would be entering the final year of his contract. Manu/Tim would have definitely retired by then so it would be a major transition year. PATFO could lure Schroder by offering him a starting job & moving Tony to the bench who will probably be current Kobe status in 2017-18. If the Hawks choose Schroder (RFA) over Teague (UFA) then just go after Teague. I'm pretty sure Bud is going to give Pop first dibs.

Other options are Langston Galloway & Jordan Clarkson but they are going to be RFAs this upcoming summer thus Patty is still going to be on the roster nor does anyone know if Manu/Tim will retire. Conley will also be an unrestricted free-agent but he is going to demand the max thus PATFO are priced out unless there is a sign-and-trade for Porker:lol.

[SAGirl]

If we're talking about trading for him, then Fournier's opinion doesn't really matter. He'd be an RFA in July, and the Spurs would have right of first refusal. Unless he goes back overseas, he'd be a Spurs for at least another year, and you can argue that two years of Fournier is better than three years of Anderson.



That makes no sense. You don't trade a better player if you don't have to. Either Fournier or Green off the bench would be better than Anderson. That's a three-man wing rotation you could run with for six more years. Plus, Green makes $10 Million a year. The Magic would have to trade more salary to the Spurs to make the numbers work. From the Spurs' perspective, it's a non-starter because they aren't going to take back a crap ballast contract for their starting two-guard. From the Magic's perspective, they aren't going to add the value it takes to get Green, and if they are trading Fournier away so they don't have to pay him, they aren't going to use assets just to pay Green seven figures a year.
I take into account the fact that Pop would not trade for a guy to get him into a situation that he doesn't like. It's part of the survey of whether he fits with your group's chemistry and makeup.

Danny on the bench next to Mills makes no sense without Manu TBH. If Manu retires and you get Fournier here, you still don't address the fact that Anderson is highly unlikely to net you Fournier even with a pick.

If you could end up with Danny/Fournier and Manu retires and Anderson is traded fine. My assessment is based on the assumption as I expressed above, that Anderson by himself or with a pick is unlikely to net you Fournier. You are more likely to have to give up Green for example, which I don't think it makes sense in a trade for the Magic, but he has a lot more trade value, and you could get a third team involved to get the Magic someone they like. If you end up with Fournier Anderson and give up Green, then maybe that is a trade that is worth it fir the Spurs TBH. Fournier would still be starting and have a prominent role and you still have Anderson to develop.

[Chinook]

Why in the hell would they want Anderson? Skiles is a defensive coach & Gordon is a much better defender than Kyle who will probably be playing behind Hezongia and Harris. He's playing wack ass Dewayne Dedmon over Andrew Nicholson b/c Nicholson is a mediocre defender just like Kyle.

It's not that Anderson would be a starter for the Magic. It's that he's cheap depth for longer, and that's what the Magic would want if they don't want to pay Fournier.


They could do a sign-and-trade thus the Magic won't have to give up an additional asset.

I'm talking about a trade THIS season, not next off-season. Anyway, you misunderstood my point about the Magic. If they won't want to pay Fournier (meaning that they want to trade him), they aren't going to want to pay Green.

[Kawhitstorm]

It's not that Anderson would be a starter for the Magic. It's that he's cheap depth for longer, and that's what the Magic would want if they don't want to pay Fournier.

I'm not even sure he can get minutes b/c they already have enough wing players & they could also get someone better than Kyle for Fournier. If I'm Sam Presti I'm offering Steven Adams for Fournier: OKC needs a 2-way wingplayer & Orlando needs a defensive minded starting center. Hopefully, that trade doesn't happen:lol.


I'm talking about a trade THIS season, not next off-season. Anyway, you misunderstood my point about the Magic. If they won't want to pay Fournier (meaning that they want to trade him), they aren't going to want to pay Green.

What if money isn't the issue but Fournier simply doesn't want to play in Orlando? That's the reason they traded Affalo. There is a good possibility that Hezongia might take his starting spot thus would be unwilling to be a backup ala Reggie Jackson.

[Chinook]

I take into account the fact that Pop would not trade for a guy to get him into a situation that he doesn't like. It's part of the survey of whether he fits with your group's chemistry and makeup.

If Fournier makes it clear he's going to be a straight cancer, that's one thing. If he's like, "I'd rather be a starter", I don't think Pop would blink at all. Even Manu talks about how he wanted to start his whole career (but that he and Pop agreed it was the best for the team and for his game if he come of the bench). Fournier would be with his countrymen and would fill the most glamorous bench role in the league, knowing that he'll still get 30 MPG and be on a contender who has the best coach and culture in the league. I don't know his personality at all, but I doubt he really balks at that.


Danny on the bench next to Mills makes no sense without Manu TBH.

You're two-guard is not supposed to be your play-maker. If Patty is the PG, he's going to have to adjust, and he seems like he can do that. Green isn't going to run an offense, but he can pick up his assist rate if he has good players around him, which is what he's been doing lately. You also overlook that being part of a three-wing rotation means Green would play a ton of minutes either next of Fournier or next to Parker. No reason at all he couldn't work, especially since the Spurs could just add a big PG like de Paula in the draft to slot between Mills and Green.


If you could end up with Danny/Fournier and Manu retires and Anderson is traded fine. My assessment is based on the assumption as I expressed above, that Anderson by himself or with a pick is unlikely to net you Fournier.

And as I've said, I'm fine keeping Anderson if the Spurs have to pay more than that. My stance was that the team would have to trade for Fournier this year if they want him; they won't be able to sign him in the summer. Anderson is a cheap contract who has positive value. That's why he's in the deal. It doesn't make sense for the Spurs to trade a solid rotation player for another solid rotation player. It doesn't help them fill the holes in next year's roster.


If you end up with Fournier Anderson and give up Green, then maybe that is a trade that is worth it fir the Spurs TBH. Fournier would still be starting and have a prominent role and you still have Anderson to develop.

You have no one on your bench to be the "Manu". Anderson is nice, but he's not your two-guard if you can help it. And Kawhi, Fournier and Anderson make a poorly balanced three-man wing rotation. The point of this thread seemed to me asking how the Spurs could get a sixth starter to replace Manu. Trading one of the five to get that sixth guy makes no sense.

You seem to admit that Green is better than Fournier (or else the Spurs couldn't get Evan by trading Danny). So a Green for Fournier swap would downgrade the Spurs' talent, cost more money and not fill the obvious whole the OP was trying to fill. I don't see why you'd be interested in the Spurs making that trade at all, unless there are ulterior, CoA-related motives here :lol

[Chinook]

I'm not even sure he can get minutes b/c they already have enough wing players & they could also get someone better than Kyle for Fournier. If I'm Sam Presti I'm offering Steven Adams for Fournier: OKC needs a 2-way wingplayer & Orlando needs a defensive minded starting center. Hopefully, that trade doesn't happen:lol.

You can rest easy. OKC won't trade Adams -- especially not for a guard they have to pay next year. And the Magic aren't interested in getting a center when they have a pretty good one that they just paid. Defensive PF? Definitely. But not a center.


What if money isn't the issue but Fournier simply doesn't want to play in Orlando? That's the reason they traded Affalo. There is a good possibility that Hezongia might take his starting spot thus would be unwilling to be a backup ala Reggie Jackson.

I don't that has anything to do with it. Plus, they'd know Fournier would want out by this point. If the Magic are willing to match an offer sheet for Fournier, he'll be there for the foreseeable future.

[Kawhitstorm]

If you could end up with Danny/Fournier and Manu retires and Anderson is traded fine. My assessment is based on the assumption as I expressed above, that Anderson by himself or with a pick is unlikely to net you Fournier. You are more likely to have to give up Green for example, which I don't think it makes sense in a trade for the Magic, but he has a lot more trade value, and you could get a third team involved to get the Magic someone they like. If you end up with Fournier Anderson and give up Green, then maybe that is a trade that is worth it fir the Spurs TBH. Fournier would still be starting and have a prominent role and you still have Anderson to develop.

The only likely straight up trade involving Kyle that could net a rotation player is Ben McLemore. He can be groomed into a decent 2-way player & his shooting can mitigate the loss of Marco if the PATFO could pry him away from that asylum house before Vlade is fired. Fournier for Kyle just doesn't make any sense for Orlando as they already have other young players who could take Fournier's minutes if he's traded.

I wouldn't mind inquiring about Andrew Nicholson in the summer as Bonner's replacement since Skiles has completely given up on him; Borrego should have the goods on him but then Boylen did recommend Ayres:lol

[Kawhitstorm]

You can rest easy. OKC won't trade Adams -- especially not for a guard they have to pay next year. And the Magic aren't interested in getting a center when they have a pretty good one that they just paid. Defensive PF? Definitely. But not a center.


The Magic do definitely need a defensive minded center. Vuc can play both PF or C but he's more suited to play PF ala Pau. Gordon is being groomed into a defensive minded small ball PF ala Draymond/Josh Smith. They made a mistake in re-signing Harris but he will most likely be moved once Hezonja & Gordon develop into legit rotation players. Right now they are depending on Dewayne Dedmon as their enforcer in the paint:lol.

OKC can get a handshake agreement w/ Fournier that he's going to re-sign before making the deal & he's going to be a RFA so they can match any offers. They might actually lose Waiters since he wants to be a starter ala Reggie Jackson so Fournier would be an insurance. They have to play Kanter w/ Ibaka as much as possible & McGary can eat the left over minutes w/ Collison playing spot minutes when they need defensive stops.

[SAGirl]

I agree with a lot of what you said Chinook.

Bottom line for me is that even as much as I like Anderson, he is not this guy's equivalent and he will not be able to net you this guy even with a first round pick (which you personally would not attach for Fournier).

I have already mentioned Danny, bc he's a more interesting piece and a number of other teams would really be interested in that trade. It is a lateral move, but Fournier theoretically brings more to the team at that point bc of his dribble/drive game, which the team will need without Ginobili and a rapidly declining Tony. To his dribble drive game, you add that he can dish assists, defends respectably, and can shoot the 3, and he's a better fit for a team that lacks Manu, and has a rapidly declining Tony than Green at that point. In that case, a Green/Fournier trade would make sense to me. Still, I have reservations bc I just don't know this guy, and I am going by reports on him, it's not like I have scouted him. In no way am I nonchalant about parting with Danny though.

That scenario also has the reservation that you would at that point really need Anderson to come through, and Pop has not let us see enough of him to really be comfortable with that, even for those of us that are fans of his game. That is also why I said Green/Fournier would not make sense. I recognize like you do, that it patches a hole, but it creates another. In that case, you now need Anderson to really come through for you, plus you need another wing.

Bottom line: I don't see us getting Fournier. We don't have an attractive young piece that would be his equivalent or near a range of equivalency to generate interest, and the pieces we do have, we can't easily spare to acquire him without creating other holes and further disrupt the chemistry and makeup of the team.

[TD 21]

Like virtually every prominent or even semi-prominent restricted free agent, Fournier's not going anywhere. He's playing a significant role for them and though they may seem overloaded on the wings, Harris is starting at PF and Hezonja is playing spot minutes.

If/when Gordon and Hezonja become the caliber of players they project to be, they can sort out their SG-PF situation then. For now, it's not difficult to divide the minutes among the five (Oladipo being the fifth, of course).

If all goes according to plan, down the line, they should have the makings for a package for a disgruntled star.

[G-Dawgg]

Fournier is not that good.

[SAGirl]

Like virtually every prominent or even semi-prominent restricted free agent, Fournier's not going anywhere. He's playing a significant role for them and though they may seem overloaded on the wings, Harris is starting at PF and Hezonja is playing spot minutes.

If/when Gordon and Hezonja become the caliber of players they project to be, they can sort out their SG-PF situation then. For now, it's not difficult to divide the minutes among the five (Oladipo being the fifth, of course).

If all goes according to plan, down the line, they should have the makings for a package for a disgruntled star.
Your scenario is actually a lot more likely.

For our scenario, we can hope Anderson develops and either becomes a serviceable role player for us, or a guy that we can trade in the future. That is why I don't see him getting fully benched all year, like some fans here who hate him claim he should. They don't see the full picture. He needs chances and opportunities to develop his game because maybe he can come through for us in the future, or another team falls in love with him and you can get another player in exchange. By all reports from Pop and the coaches, they do love several aspects of his game, and his teammates have him in high regard. He's a young kid compared to the vets in this team, and they are bringing him along slowly because they can afford to do that.

Heck even Rasual Butler was reported by his agent to have been recruited because of his veteran leadership and the help he can provide in developing the younger wings (presumably in Anderson and Simmons, who could very well project to be career roleplayers/journeymen like him).

[TD 21]

Your scenario is actually a lot more likely.

For our scenario, we can hope Anderson develops and either becomes a serviceable role player for us, or a guy that we can trade in the future. That is why I don't see him getting fully benched all year, like some fans here who hate him claim he should. They don't see the full picture. He needs chances and opportunities to develop his game because maybe he can come through for us in the future, or another team falls in love with him and you can get another player in exchange. By all reports from Pop and the coaches, they do love several aspects of his game, and his teammates have him in high regard. He's a young kid compared to the vets in this team, and they are bringing him along slowly because they can afford to do that.

Heck even Rasual Butler was reported by his agent to have been recruited because of his veteran leadership and the help he can provide in developing the younger wings (presumably in Anderson and Simmons, who could very well project to be career roleplayers/journeymen like him).

We're probably only going to get a legit read on Anderson if/when Ginobili get's injured for a few weeks. He's predictably been a poor fit alongside him and it's highly unlikely that will change.

He probably avoids being permanently dropped from the rotation because of the lack of an obvious replacement. Of course, if Butler begins to shoot out of his mind from 3 like he did in the first half of last season, that could change.

That's also probably the only thing that would prevent them from scouring the market for a fourth wing, as the season goes along. But ultimately, an external option is more than likely required.

[sasaint]

Your scenario is actually a lot more likely.

For our scenario, we can hope Anderson develops and either becomes a serviceable role player for us, or a guy that we can trade in the future. That is why I don't see him getting fully benched all year, like some fans here who hate him claim he should. They don't see the full picture. He needs chances and opportunities to develop his game because maybe he can come through for us in the future, or another team falls in love with him and you can get another player in exchange. By all reports from Pop and the coaches, they do love several aspects of his game, and his teammates have him in high regard. He's a young kid compared to the vets in this team, and they are bringing him along slowly because they can afford to do that.

Heck even Rasual Butler was reported by his agent to have been recruited because of his veteran leadership and the help he can provide in developing the younger wings (presumably in Anderson and Simmons, who could very well project to be career roleplayers/journeymen like him).

Of course, the possibility exists that with more court time Kyle could actually lose value. I suspect that PATFO expect Kyle to make it (on some level) in a Spur uniform or get cut. Trades are not much of a tool in our box. Heck, one of the biggest trades in Spur history was the Splitter dump.

[sasaint]

We're probably only going to get a legit read on Anderson if/when Ginobili get's injured for a few weeks. He's predictably been a poor fit alongside him and it's highly unlikely that will change.

He probably avoids being permanently dropped from the rotation because of the lack of an obvious replacement. Of course, if Butler begins to shoot out of his mind from 3 like he did in the first half of last season, that could change.

That's also probably the only thing that would prevent them from scouring the market for a fourth wing, as the season goes along. But ultimately, an external option is more than likely required.


So far you are right about Manu and Kyle. But it puzzles me. You'd think that two guys with high BB IQs and good passing skills could find a way to mesh. Even if Kyle really doesn't, Manu still moves without the ball better than 95% of the guys who ever played this game.

As for scouring the market for a wing, don't expect a trade. We already have more new pieces, resulting in less continuity and predictability, than any Spurs team I can remember. I suspect adding a new piece via trade this season sounds like moving from discontinuity to chaos to PATFO. Eventually ridding ourselves of Bonner and/or Simmons for a FA or another D-league prospect seems more consistent with PATFO's MO. The more Butler proves he can play effectively for 10-12 minutes/game and hit some 3s, the more Bonner seems like the expendable piece if we do make some minor change.

[SAGirl]

Of course, the possibility exists that with more court time Kyle could actually lose value. I suspect that PATFO expect Kyle to make it (on some level) in a Spur uniform or get cut. Trades are not much of a tool in our box. Heck, one of the biggest trades in Spur history was the Splitter dump.
Well, they also traded G.Hill and took a risk on Leonard, who was promising, but not a sure thing.
And now they traded Splitter and took a risk on coming out empty to go after a star FA.
They have taken a few calculated risks here or there to refresh this roster with real talent. Trading Kyle would not be much of a risk depending on how high you are on him. It is possible with more play time his stock would decrease, but it wasn't very high to begin with, and if he's playing for Pop he's likely to increase his perception, not only bc Pop is a winning coach, but bc of his defensive fundamentals. Already the biggest improvement in Kyle's game is his defensive awareness and use of his physical tools to do a good job on that end.

I do believe they have hope in his potential though, not only bc of the extension he got in his contract, but because they are giving him minutes even now, when his only reliable 3 pt shot is from the corner, and he's not a volume shooter, and his best asset is passing, which is a redundancy in the second unit.

For a coach like Thibodeau, it would be too easy to just simply play Rasual and leave Anderson to rot in the bench. Heck the Wizards did that with an arguably more talented guy in Otto Porter. It would be too easy to just play your vet and completely take the young kid out of the rotation, but I think Pop has seen something that he wants to evaluate, and he can realistically only evaluate it with NBA minutes, bc Kyle's already been a star in the D'league and SL and its not the same league

At the same time, if its the first time that you are giving him small chances, then you have to really give him a chance, which is why picking up his extension fits. He's got to improve more than anything right now his 3 pt shooting.

He gave an interview when he acknowledged that he's not right now at the level the team needs him to be. His actual expression was something like: "I am not yet where WE need me to be." I thought that was cute and at least it shows that he hopes to stay here for the length of his rookie-level deal and not be traded, but if another team falls in love with him and is willing to part with an asset, you have to consider it.

[SAGirl]

So far you are right about Manu and Kyle. But it puzzles me. You'd think that two guys with high BB IQs and good passing skills could find a way to mesh. Even if Kyle really doesn't, Manu still moves without the ball better than 95% of the guys who ever played this game.

As for scouring the market for a wing, don't expect a trade. We already have more new pieces, resulting in less continuity and predictability, than any Spurs team I can remember. I suspect adding a new piece via trade this season sounds like moving from discontinuity to chaos to PATFO. Eventually ridding ourselves of Bonner and/or Simmons for a FA or another D-league prospect seems more consistent with PATFO's MO. The more Butler proves he can play effectively for 10-12 minutes/game and hit some 3s, the more Bonner seems like the expendable piece if we do make some minor change.
Butler is already playing all minutes there are as a stretch 4 and he's been good in that lineup. Bonner is moral support at this point.

Anderson and Manu have played well together. The issue with Anderson is spacing. When he's played with Manu it usually involves the Diaw/West pairing as well, who post up and take spots in the paint, and Kyle's role is to cut to the hoop when someone is posting up, shoot the 3 but only from the corner. He always asks for a switch if he's not spotted up in the corner, and he handles the basketball. Bc he's not a 3 point threat from all over, it messes spacing and causes others to cheat. I think he has generally played well, Pop keeps going to Butler bc of the 3 point shot.

[sasaint]

It is quite clear that fans only catch an occasional glimpse of something in games that Kyle demonstrates more in practice. As a result, he has far more value in the Spurs' eyes than anybody else's. He is still too much of an unknown quantity for another team to initiate a trade for unless that team wants to dump a player of its own, or it loses a name player to serious injury or somebody on the coaching staff has a good history with Kyle, say, going back to AAU and UCLA. I would be shocked if PATFO initiated any trade talks this season involving anybody unless a core player suffers severe injury.

[sasaint]

Butler is already playing all minutes there are as a stretch 4 and he's been good in that lineup. Bonner is moral support at this point.

Anderson and Manu have played well together. The issue with Anderson is spacing. When he's played with Manu it usually involves the Diaw/West pairing as well, who post up and take spots in the paint, and Kyle's role is to cut to the hoop when someone is posting up, shoot the 3 but only from the corner. He always asks for a switch if he's not spotted up in the corner, and he handles the basketball. Bc he's not a 3 point threat from all over, it messes spacing and causes others to cheat. I think he has generally played well, Pop keeps going to Butler bc of the 3 point shot.

Until last game, the best I could say about his court time was that he no longer looked lost, and he hasn't been making stupid mistakes. IMHO Kyle has not played "well" (not to say he has payed poorly) until last game when, ironically his two best plays were negated. (His clear blocked shot that the refs negated, and a nifty shovel pass to Danny for a corner 3 that was negated by Danny's stepping out of bounds.) It is also a bit ironic that, as you say, one of his real strengths is his team defense, and his increasing ability to understand how to use his great length to his advantage against NBA competition. (Before last game, his best play IMO was a nice mid court steal of a bounce pass against...) I say "ironic" because many posters here berated his defense and expected him to be a real liability on that end of the floor. As for his offense, he hasn't shown me he is a "threat" from the deep corner. I keep my fingers crossed every time he shoots the ball. But after last game I am interested to see if his confidence was boosted by his play, especially including the negated plays. Tonight could be very interesting.

[SAGirl]

Until last game, the best I could say about his court time was that he no longer looked lost, and he hasn't been making stupid mistakes. IMHO Kyle has not played "well" (not to say he has payed poorly) until last game when, ironically his two best plays were negated. (His clear blocked shot that the refs negated, and a nifty shovel pass to Danny for a corner 3 that was negated by Danny's stepping out of bounds.) It is also a bit ironic that, as you say, one of his real strengths is his team defense, and his increasing ability to understand how to use his great length to his advantage against NBA competition. (Before last game, his best play IMO was a nice mid court steal of a bounce pass against...) I say "ironic" because many posters here berated his defense and expected him to be a real liability on that end of the floor. As for his offense, he hasn't shown me he is a "threat" from the deep corner. I keep my fingers crossed every time he shoots the ball. But after last game I am interested to see if his confidence was boosted by his play, especially including the negated plays. Tonight could be very interesting.

Yea, like you I noticed his improvement the most in his defense. He hasn't played much in the RS, but in the preseason games he was fearless when he was matched up with quick guards or scorers. He seemed ready to take the challenge to guard in the perimeter. He didn't have that when he came in.

He's shot well from the corner and in the midrange in the d'league. Even in SL he took a lot of long 2s. He's got a nice shot but not range. I think him extending his range is the issue with his shooting and he's not there yet.

[sasaint]

He's shot well from the corner and in the midrange in the d'league. Even in SL he took a lot of long 2s. He's got a nice shot but not range. I think him extending his range is the issue with his shooting and he's not there yet.

But D-league and SL were in another lifetime. In his NBA incarnation Kyle's value has been on defense. I just hope and pray that Chip can wor his magic on Kyle as he has Kawhi. Just think what a nice weapon Kyle would be as a 38-40% 3-point shooter!

[SAGirl]

But D-league and SL were in another lifetime. In his NBA incarnation Kyle's value has been on defense. I just hope and pray that Chip can wor his magic on Kyle as he has Kawhi. Just think what a nice weapon Kyle would be as a 38-40% 3-point shooter!
Yes, I hope he can improve it. He's not there yet, that is for sure.

From what I could tell, he reworked his whole shot. It looks very different from UCLA to the way it looked in the d'league. I think Chip did his magic in reworking his shot, but its likely something he needs continued repetition on. I do hope he can improve his shooting, to at least a Diaw like rate. I think he, like Diaw would never be a volume shooter, but you want to be able to shoot it when you are wide open. Right now they have him cutting a whole lot, and setting screens. He's not spotted up, and its not like he's gotten a whole lot of open looks precisely bc he's always moving, but that can be seen as Pop masking his lack of a shot.

I think if he could shoot, that would really open up his game much like Diaw, who drives past guys when they come out to close on him. He's got potential for sure, its just not realized right now, and we are probably not going to see it much. Like you say, a lot goes on behind close doors that we don't know about. More than anything I think the time he is actually getting is meant as an evaluation tool for his game. Like you say, D'league and SL is a whole other existence. You need some footage of actual NBA game to evaluate where he's really at.

[sasaint]

Chip has been working with Kawhi for a lot longer than Kyle. Kawhi is just now showing the effect of Chip's tutelage on a consistent basis. If Kyle shoots like Boris by the end of the year, he will have made himself a valuable rotation player. If he does reach that level we can more realistically expect it to come next year. But here's hoping!

[TD 21]

So far you are right about Manu and Kyle. But it puzzles me. You'd think that two guys with high BB IQs and good passing skills could find a way to mesh. Even if Kyle really doesn't, Manu still moves without the ball better than 95% of the guys who ever played this game.

As for scouring the market for a wing, don't expect a trade. We already have more new pieces, resulting in less continuity and predictability, than any Spurs team I can remember. I suspect adding a new piece via trade this season sounds like moving from discontinuity to chaos to PATFO. Eventually ridding ourselves of Bonner and/or Simmons for a FA or another D-league prospect seems more consistent with PATFO's MO. The more Butler proves he can play effectively for 10-12 minutes/game and hit some 3s, the more Bonner seems like the expendable piece if we do make some minor change.

It's all about Anderson's lack of three-point shooting. He's also not an adept off ball cutter, as many limited-non shooters are, from years of being disregarded on the weak side. This is likely because Anderson has always played with the ball in his hands.

Obviously, they're not going to do anything significant, if they do anything at all. But fourth wing is an issue that's unlikely to be resolved anytime soon and will only become more glaring when one of the top three is either injured, or in Ginobili's case, sat out of a game.

[SAGirl]

It's all about Anderson's lack of three-point shooting. He's also not an adept off ball cutter, as many limited-non shooters are, from years of being disregarded on the weak side. This is likely because Anderson has always played with the ball in his hands.

Obviously, they're not going to do anything significant, if they do anything at all. But fourth wing is an issue that's unlikely to be resolved anytime soon and will only become more glaring when one of the top three is either injured, or in Ginobili's case, sat out of a game.
I think we are actually fine bc Kawhi, Danny, Manu and Butler are playing really well. The key is probably not overplaying Manu and Butler.

I agree they are unlikely to make moves midseason. When Manu retires it will be a blow regardless, and the team will deal with it at that point I suspect. Spurs have not been prognosticating his retirement. When it happens, they will deal with it. I suspect Anderson is groomed for the passing aspect, then you probably want a very athletic wing to be the recipient of those passes, who can cut and such. Simmons fits nicely, but who knows if he'll develop. We have to give time to the younger guys to develop and if they don't then deal with it.

[mystargtr34]

And please for God's sake DO NOT GOOGLE HIS LAST NAME.

No really don't do it. I'm warning you.
DON'T. DO. IT

Holy fuck :lol

[NameLess Scrub]

At least Evan seems to be on his way to baldness like Manu was.

[SAGirl]

Emerging as the Magic's best player. A terrific closer, coming up with game winning clutch shots.

He looks to be out of reach, as I suspected, and is having a breakout season.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/11/19/9728208/evan-fournier-highlights-stats-orlando-magic-breakout

[dabom]

Emerging as the Magic's best player. A terrific closer, coming up with game winning clutch shots.

He looks to be out of reach, as I suspected, and is having a breakout season.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/11/19/9728208/evan-fournier-highlights-stats-orlando-magic-breakout


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HDmMOs-N0Y

[lefty]

He is part Algerian, I guess I can't hate him :lol

[ceperez]

Damn... I didn't know that this guy could become this good.

[apalisoc_9]

I the offseason i wanted the spurs to trade for him. I knew he was going to explode