charles Barkely: "Kawhi leonard is a top 5 player in the league"

[apalisoc_9]

I never thought id hate hearing those words...:lol

Barkley has a great eye for talent but he hardly watches games ourisde of of the nationally televised games...and we all know he has the shittiest of takes. :lol

[honestfool84]

Sweet

[Mikeanaro]

Lol Barkley jumping on the bandwagon.

[HarlemHeat37]

Ugh, now Kawhi is going to go downhill, tbh:(

[apalisoc_9]

I knew when i read the article abou kawhi watching barkley..barkely was going to go on a mission to elevate kawhi among mainstream media fans...:lol

Pop with the strong PR move :lol

Kawhi is a top 6-8 player though..for sure.

[HarlemHeat37]

Ya, although Barkley's takes are usually historically bad and inaccurate, the media coverage should help Kawhi for accolades..it's too bad Curry is looking like the best perimeter player since Jordan, so far, that MVP is out of reach, already:lol..

[SAGirl]

Nothing to see here. This we know.

[apalisoc_9]

Ya, although Barkley's takes are usually historically bad and inaccurate, the media coverage should help Kawhi for accolades..it's too bad Curry is looking like the best perimeter player since Jordan, so far, that MVP is out of reach, already:lol..

Curry has won me over as a fan though. I was getting annoyed with all the davis over curry rankings this summer..pretty funny that a guy who just made his team one of the best teams ever can still be underrated the way curry is...while davis who has done nothing on the defensive end and is an inferior offensive player gets hyped..

[testies]

Barkley is just a narcisist, probably just said that because he now watches Barkley tapes and a top5 player studying him is more flattering

[apalisoc_9]

Barkley is just a narcisist, probably just said that because he now watches Barkley tapes and a top5 player studying him is more flattering

To be fair though, Barkley called him a top 10 player before anyone did in mainstream media...and now he is...Lets hope the same thing happens with his top 5 pick

[Brian Windhorst]

Definitely top 10

Lebron
Curry
Durant
Westbrook
Harden
Davis

Uphill battle to prove he's better than any of those tbh until he breaks one of those players in a 7 game series.

[SpurPadre]

Definitely top 10

Lebron
Curry
Durant
Westbrook
Harden
Davis

Uphill battle to prove he's better than any of those tbh until he breaks one of those players in a 7 game series.

Well, he did already beat four of those guys in a playoff series while having more rings than the other two he hasn't faced in the playoffs. That's not the rationale to use. Many would take him over Harden since beard can't play any D...so to say he's a top 5 player isn't far-fetched.

[cjw]

Definitely top 10

Lebron
Curry
Durant
Westbrook
Harden
Davis

Uphill battle to prove he's better than any of those tbh until he breaks one of those players in a 7 game series.

He's the second best defensive player of that group (Lebron is still Lebron, but I still think Kawhi has done more than Davis). The top four are obvious but there's a chance Kawhi surpasses Harden and Davis at some point, especially if Harden's sub league average D is accounted for. Only other guys I'd consider there are Paul and Blake. Blake's D is vastly improved.

[SpurPadre]

He's the second best defensive player of that group (Lebron is still Lebron, but I still think Kawhi has done more than Davis). The top four are obvious but there's a chance Kawhi surpasses Harden and Davis at some point, especially if Harden's sub league average D is accounted for. Only other guys I'd consider there are Paul and Blake. Blake's D is vastly improved.

If you acknowledge Harden' s lack of D, then why don't you think Kawhi has already surpassed him?

[cjw]

If you acknowledge Harden' s lack of D, then why don't you think Kawhi has already surpassed him?

I think he has, and Harden's been pretty inefficient when not getting to the line. Kawhi has oozed efficiency this year - almost automatic at the line to boot too.

[SpurPadre]

I think he has, and Harden's been pretty inefficient when not getting to the line. Kawhi has oozed efficiency this year - almost automatic at the line to boot too.

Yeah, I even think Paul George has surpassed Harden. The Kawhi vs. George debate is much more interesting.

[Proxy]

Charles: "he watched my tapes??!!!=Kawhi is GOAT"

[BillMc]

Charles: "he watched my tapes??!!!=Kawhi is GOAT"

:lol Pretty much this.

[apalisoc_9]

George missed whole year and in the lasr 9 games his defense has slipped significantly...he is starting to fall into the save energy on D category...no way...just no way he is better than Harden..You could make an argument for kawhi over harden, sure..maybe...but no one should take issue in seeing harden name in a top 5 list. George is barely a top 15 player right now...their not even in the same stratosphere

[Yuixafun]

Either way...

Win-win for Whi, and we!

Parker and Diaw agree, so that's a oui oui too,

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

:chestbump. :elephant. :huddle:

This season is suddenly starting to sizzle!

[spurraider21]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5UBMSOgQVs

[LittleCriminal]

Definitely top 10

Lebron
Curry
Durant
Westbrook
Harden
Davis

Uphill battle to prove he's better than any of those tbh until he breaks one of those players in a 7 game series.

Out of those six you listied, which one would you pick to score 20 plus points and shut down another teams top scorer??
Insert Kahwi leonard.

[Texas_Ranger]

Definitely top 10

Lebron
Curry
Durant
Westbrook
Harden
Davis

Uphill battle to prove he's better than any of those tbh until he breaks one of those players in a 7 game series.

Sucks that half of those guys don't even know how to play defense...

[midnightpulp]

Definitely top 10

Lebron
Curry
Durant
Westbrook
Harden
Davis

Uphill battle to prove he's better than any of those tbh until he breaks one of those players in a 7 game series.

- Outplayed Lebron in the 2015 Finals in the last 3 games.

- Outplays Curry nearly every time they match up.

- Held Durant below his regular season numbers in 2014 WCF. But has yet to outplay him. So agree there.

- Typically gives Westbrook trouble.

I think he's better than Harden and Davis straight up at the moment. Davis is in a slump, overrated defensively, and Harden is too streaky on both ends.

I think we can justify putting Leonard in the top 5 of regular season players. But he needs to get that "outplayed by Matt Barnes" stain off his resume before we can "crown" him as a legitimate centerpiece of a playoff contender, a guy who can put a team on his back like Curry, Lebron, Prime Duncan, etc. Dirk went through a similar trial in '07 when Stephen Jackson outplayed him, so I think it will be a good learning experience for Claw.

[spursparker9]

Charles: "he watched my tapes??!!!=Kawhi is GOAT"

:lol

Truth

[NameLess Scrub]

We should probably wait for at least half a season to proclaim Kawhi a top 5 player.
None of the guys above earned their reputation by having a great 10 game stretch.
It's ok, I don't even know if he needs a lot of attention.
Sure helps on winning awards, but he probably doesn't need the pressure.

Barkley is always entertaining, that's probably the reason he's on TV.
At least, I'll always like that he gave the Magic to win vs the Cavs in '09, great stuff :lol

[Raven]

the top 3 has to be curry, lebron and kawhi. winning dpoy and finals mvp and averaging more than 20 points, will do that for you.

[exstatic]

- Outplayed Lebron in the 2015 Finals in the last 3 games.

- Outplays Curry nearly every time they match up.

- Held Durant below his regular season numbers in 2014 WCF. But has yet to outplay him. So agree there.

- Typically gives Westbrook trouble.

I think he's better than Harden and Davis straight up at the moment. Davis is in a slump, overrated defensively, and Harden is too streaky on both ends.

I think we can justify putting Leonard in the top 5 of regular season players. But he needs to get that "outplayed by Matt Barnes" stain off his resume before we can "crown" him as a legitimate centerpiece of a playoff contender, a guy who can put a team on his back like Curry, Lebron, Prime Duncan, etc. Dirk went through a similar trial in '07 when Stephen Jackson outplayed him, so I think it will be a good learning experience for Claw.

LOLwut? He shut Durant the fuck down in game one of the season, clearly outplaying him.

[RodNIc91]

Ya, although Barkley's takes are usually historically bad and inaccurate, the media coverage should help Kawhi for accolades..it's too bad Curry is looking like the best perimeter player since Jordan, so far, that MVP is out of reach, already:lol..

Don't you think it's a bit of a reach to call him the best since Jordan? I'd like to hear your thoughts on this -- on Curry's case I mean.

[midnightpulp]

LOLwut? He shut Durant the fuck down in game one of the season, clearly outplaying him.

Over a playoff series.

[midnightpulp]

Don't you think it's a bit of a reach to call him the best since Jordan? I'd like to hear your thoughts on this -- on Curry's case I mean.

He probably means guard. Lebron is still far and away the best wing since MJ. Furthermore, Curry has yet to really have a historically great dominant playoff run. Total picture, I'd probably put Wade over Curry as best guard since Jordan and maybe Kobe, but regular season Curry just might be the best guard since MJ. Regular season, though.

[Seventyniner]

Oh look, the blind squirrel found an acorn.

[exstatic]

Over a playoff series.

Fair enough clarification. If he can do it to LeBron, though, I think he will. In the immortal words of Bruno Mars "Don't believe me? Just watch!"

[kjhip1]

Kawhi is definitely top 5 with his play on both sides of the ball. I never thought he would get to this level but I was wrong. He's on a mission. For those that say curry is overrated, need to look at what he's doing this year. Flat out ridiculous numbers. Sucks that we don't play the Warriors until later in the season.

[Blue Duck]

Agreed, needs more seasoning but he's climbing fast and the journey is gonna be fun to watch. Seems like ever game his offensive game is a little more refined and the moves are getting silky smooth. I'm just gonna enjoy the ride.

[tmtcsc]

He's the second best defensive player of that group. (Lebron is still Lebron)

https://media.giphy.com/media/glmRyiSI3v5E4/giphy.gif

[DenialTwist]

When did Barkley say this?

[Mal]

His defense is way better than Harden`s, than Harden`s offense over Kawhi offense. Davis is overrated, Pelicans are shit. If you consider great player based on merits like team success, defense not pure hype and offense, then you can have case for Kawhi being top 5 behind James, Curry and OKC duo.

[Join'orDie]

I've loved watching the climb Kawhi has made up through the NBA ranks. I've liked this kid since day one. Even if back then all I hoped was he could be another Bruce. Needless to say he's already surpassed that and he still is improving. Not since the early days of LBJ has there been a player that I so intently watch on both ends of the court. The biggest thing I hope this new found hype improves is Kawhi's trips to the foul line. There have been many times over his career where he drives to the hole and doesn't get the call when guys like James, Durant, and Harden would have. I think that's part of the reason he settles for jumpers more than he should. Put it this way Kawhi is averaging 22 ppg on 3 FTA. While Harden is averaging 29 ppg on 12 FTA. If Kawhi can get to the line 3-4 more times a game plus move his 3 point percentage up a tic I think he will solidly be a top 5 player.

Kawhi I think is the biggest testament to the coaching of Pop. Yes he had all the physical tools and he had the work ethic and the drive to be great. But it was Pop who molded him into the player he is today. You look at a player like Ben Mclemore in Sac who has all the tools in the world to be the best 2 guard in the league and he is just wasting away in his situation. Kawhi and the Spurs were made for each other.

[All Mighty Janitor]

kawhi vs pg debate makes no sense

pg is playin on a 1 man team where he is the offense...i dont care if his playing pf there...whats his fga per game and usage rate...

So far, Paul's USG% is 31.3 (compared to Kawhi 26.8) and has taken 18.3 fg (to kawhi's 17.1). I don't think Paul's number's are inflated because they are similar to his last full season.

I can see the argument for seeing Kawhi as top 5 (you pretty much have to see defense and offence having equal weight), but I just don't see it that way. I think you have to be a minus defender to outweigh high tier offence. The highest I would(could) put him is 7th behind (in no order) Lebron, Curry, Blake, Chris Paul, Durant, and Westbrook.

[T_L_P]

Kawhi's development has been great, but top five is a bit of a stretch.

LeBron, Durant and Curry are the untouchables. Griffin vastly outperformed Leonard in the Playoffs last year and is having a better season so far. In a vacuum I'd still take Davis (despite the poor start).

Harden/Westbrook are tough. I'd have to see a full season and Playoff run of this Leonard before I could put him ahead of them. And Chris Paul still hasn't factor in here (he's been a big disappointment to start the season).

[dabom]

Kawhi easily top 5.

[lefty]

No mention of Porker

[Horse]

Still not sold on currys D and he can be bothered by size. GS one of the best teams ever is some dumb shit to say after one season where they got all the breaks in the world.

[Cry Havoc]

Still not sold on currys D and he can be bothered by size. GS one of the best teams ever is some dumb shit to say after one season where they got all the breaks in the world.

You can only beat the teams you play. The Dubs were in historical margins on a lot of the common metrics for great teams.

[KL2]

The Spurs would probably be win-less without Leonard this year, almost every single game has been competitive so far and he's continuously led us to victory.

Easily top 10, possibly top 5, he's definitely on his way there. The Spurs aren't even clicking yet either, the spacing is fucked on a lot of plays but Leonard is still scoring, shows how truly good he is. Even more opportunities will open up for him as the season progresses, I think that is when he reaches top 5 status.

[spurraider21]

No mention of Porker
^proof of how he's livin rent free

[spurraider21]

man, only the dubs can be reigning champs, have incredible stats and advanced stats, and people still say "i'm not sold on them"

[HarlemHeat37]

I find it amazing that so many non-Spurs fans apparently haven't watched them play since 2013 and still describe Kawhi as the same player he was back then, tbh:lol..

And no, Durant is not clearly better anymore IMO..his defense is atrocious, one of the worst perimeter defender in the league nowadays..he may be better, but it's not clear like it used to be when Durant was a legitimate 2-way player that could stay healthy and consistently dominate(2012-2014)..

I won't put him in the top 5, yet, because he hasn't done it in the playoffs as the #1 like others have..I'm confident he will, though..to be fair, neither has Harden, and he's had multiple opportunities:lol..

[DMC]

I find it amazing that so many non-Spurs fans apparently haven't watched them play since 2013 and still describe Kawhi as the same player he was back then, tbh:lol..

And no, Durant is not clearly better anymore IMO..his defense is atrocious, one of the worst perimeter defender in the league nowadays..he may be better, but it's not clear like it used to be when Durant was a legitimate 2-way player that could stay healthy and consistently dominate(2012-2014)..

I won't put him in the top 5, yet, because he hasn't done it in the playoffs as the #1 like others have..I'm confident he will, though..to be fair, neither has Harden, and he's had multiple opportunities:lol..
I don't know, getting the FMVP kinda negates what you just said.

[HarlemHeat37]

Don't you think it's a bit of a reach to call him the best since Jordan? I'd like to hear your thoughts on this -- on Curry's case I mean.

I don't actually think he's the best player since Jordan, I said he's looking like it, currently:lol..he's obviously not going to continue at this pace..

He's the best PG I've ever seen, though, been saying it since last season..I never saw Aids Johnson play, to be fair..

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't know, getting the FMVP kinda negates what you just said.

He wasn't really the #1 option on that team, though, nobody was..Kawhi has been a great playoff performer, overall, so far in his career, but he disappointed in the latter part of last year's series as the #1 guy..he needs to do that before I put him in the same conversation as the Lebrons and Currys IMO..

It's fair to question other players in the same situation, as well, like Anthony Davis IMO..

[TD 21]

I find it amazing that so many non-Spurs fans apparently haven't watched them play since 2013 and still describe Kawhi as the same player he was back then, tbh:lol..

And no, Durant is not clearly better anymore IMO..his defense is atrocious, one of the worst perimeter defender in the league nowadays..he may be better, but it's not clear like it used to be when Durant was a legitimate 2-way player that could stay healthy and consistently dominate(2012-2014)..

I won't put him in the top 5, yet, because he hasn't done it in the playoffs as the #1 like others have..I'm confident he will, though..to be fair, neither has Harden, and he's had multiple opportunities:lol..

I can't stand him, but he hasn't played enough since his foot injuries to make a definitive judgement on the caliber of player he is at this point.

Even if what you say bears itself out over the long run, he's still a historically great offensive player. That was always enough for the consensus to be that Nowitzki was clearly superior to better two way players and he shouldn't be treated any differently just because he's more athletic.

Leonard is not in the top five, not so much because he hasn't done it in the playoffs as a number one (that's nonsense, considering he's played in one series where he was was the number one, that changed midway through it and it came on a beat up team playing a fellow top five team), but because he hasn't proven he can carry an offense and an elite one at that, over a long period of time.

[DMC]

He wasn't really the #1 option on that team, though, nobody was..Kawhi has been a great playoff performer, overall, so far in his career, but he disappointed in the latter part of last year's series as the #1 guy..he needs to do that before I put him in the same conversation as the Lebrons and Currys IMO..

It's fair to question other players in the same situation, as well, like Anthony Davis IMO..

He has to get the benefit of the doubt though, since the defense wasn't focused on stopping anyone in particular.

I think if he had the same cocky swag that RW has, people would think he's the next coming of MJ.

[ajh18]

I can't stand him, but he hasn't played enough since his foot injuries to make a definitive judgement on the caliber of player he is at this point.

Even if what you say bears itself out over the long run, he's still a historically great offensive player. That was always enough for the consensus to be that Nowitzki was clearly superior to better two way players and he shouldn't be treated any differently just because he's more athletic.

Leonard is not in the top five, not so much because he hasn't done it in the playoffs as a number one (that's nonsense, considering he's played in one series where he was was the number one, that changed midway through it and it came on a beat up team playing a fellow top five team), but because he hasn't proven he can carry an offense and an elite one at that, over a long period of time.

I remember people consistently rating guys like KG and Duncan ahead of Dirk because they were two-way players and Dirk was mainly just an offensive threat. Duncan obviously had other reasons as well, like overall success, but I do feel like when comparing elite players folks take the defense into account.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Kawhilights is top 3

[Spurtacular]

I never thought id hate hearing those words...:lol

Barkley has a great eye for talent but he hardly watches games ourisde of of the nationally televised games...and we all know he has the shittiest of takes. :lol

Speaking of faggoty takes...

[100%duncan]

He's the second best defensive player of that group (Lebron is still Lebron, but I still think Kawhi has done more than Davis). The top four are obvious but there's a chance Kawhi surpasses Harden and Davis at some point, especially if Harden's sub league average D is accounted for. Only other guys I'd consider there are Paul and Blake. Blake's D is vastly improved.
:lmao Lebron literally plays no defense right now

[cjw]

:lmao Lebron literally plays no defense right now

I guess you weren't watching him in the Finals last year? He jogs through the season. Still elite when he cares.

[exstatic]

I guess you weren't watching him in the Finals last year? He jogs through the season. Still elite when he cares.









elite when he cares =/= Elite

[100%duncan]

I guess you weren't watching him in the Finals last year? He jogs through the season. Still elite when he cares.

And? You said kawhi is still 2nd best defensively, but if you have actually been watching lebron for the past 3seasons you know what you're talking about is total bullshit. :lol

Oh and the finals.last year where he got torched by either curry or iguodala? Smh :lol

[Silver&Black]

And? You said kawhi is still 2nd best defensively, but if you have actually been watching lebron for the past 3seasons you know what you're talking about is total bullshit. :lol

Oh and the finals.last year where he got torched by either curry or iguodala? Smh :lol

Welcome back...

:lol What did you get banned for? If you can't say it ITT...PM me.

[100%duncan]

Welcome back...

:lol What did you get banned for? If you can't say it ITT...PM me.

I think it was when spurraider talked about the becky banning and i replied with yeah that faggot mod. You know what they wrote in my ban statement? "Guess you have fond memories of being banned" or something like that. I musta stepped on some sensitive vagina. :lol

[Silver&Black]

I think it was when spurraider talked about the becky banning and i replied with yeah that faggot mod. You know what they wrote in my ban statement? "Guess you have fond memories of being banned" or something like that. I musta stepped on some sensitive vagina. :lol

Yeah....I try to stay away from Becky conversations. They never go well, and the banhammer usually follows.

[100%duncan]

Yeah....I try to stay away from Becky conversations. They never go well, and the banhammer usually follows.

What's funny is they didnt do shit about the kawhi is a retard or all the wishing parker of ill threads :lol as I said i musta stepped on some vagina tbh. Goodbye in advance for now :lmao

[dabom]

The MODs can suck my dick!. Except a couple of mods.

[Kidd K]

I knew when i read the article abou kawhi watching barkley..barkely was going to go on a mission to elevate kawhi among mainstream media fans...:lol

Pop with the strong PR move :lol

Kawhi is a top 6-8 player though..for sure.

This. If anyone thinks his comments aren't suddenly happening because of that. . .lol.

Kawhi's good though, just not top 5 good. Also I don't think Barkley always has shitty takes. . .but yeah. He's only handjobbing Kawhi now because of the tape thing.

[YGWHI]

When SI.com and ESPN ranked Kawhi top 10 player some guys here were talking shit about him and the rankings...now he's easily a top 7-8 player.


He's only handjobbing Kawhi now because of the tape thing.
Not sure, Barkley said Kawhi was a top 10-15 player three years ago, he always praised him.

[SouthernFried]

On a team, I would take Kawhi over Harden every single time. If I didn't have a "team" and just needed a scorer, I'd take Harden...or Iverson.

[YGWHI]

I guess you weren't watching him in the Finals last year? He jogs through the season. Still elite when he cares.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdg7dHYVvMc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3-x_7RMuig


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKUCE_5H7Iw

[YGWHI]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK9wLWF8TXo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QD6IpHMaZKQ

[YGWHI]

He's a bit overrated defensively...he made some huge defensive mistakes in those series.

[cjw]

He's a bit overrated defensively...he made some huge defensive mistakes in those series.

I'm sounding like an apologist here, but for a guy bearing such a huge load offensively (most scrub team last year since the 07 Cavs or AI's Sixers playing in the finals), he's still able to guard multiple positions pretty darn well. Jordan was on another level when it came to his defense while being the alpha dog on offense for a perimeter guy.

I can also post a bunch of plays where Kawhi's been burned on D. Remember how he played the second half of the Clippers series?

[dweaver99027]

If Kawhi was asked to carry a Cavs team with Mo Williams as the second best player, a Heat team with a one-legged wade, and another Cavs team with Dellavedova(!!!) as the second best player and still could play elite level defense then I'd rank him top 5 all time, not just current. I can also make a video that makes Duncan appear as the most dumbfounded defender of all time. The hate is strong in this forum.

[HarlemHeat37]

2010-2013 Lebron was probably the best 2-way player in league history IMO, but ya, his defense fell off a cliff in 2014, and furthermore in 2015, tbh..understandable with the load he carries, the wear&tear and his current age, but still, I wouldn't necessarily classify him as a 2-way player "today", despite his strong defensive start for these first 2 weeks of 2015-2016..

[dweaver99027]

2010-2013 Lebron was probably the best 2-way player in league history IMO, but ya, his defense fell off a cliff in 2014, and furthermore in 2015, tbh..understandable with the load he carries, the wear&tear and his current age, but still, I wouldn't necessarily classify him as a 2-way player "today", despite his strong defensive start for these first 2 weeks of 2015-2016..

So, in the Finals, which he is almost sure to reach, he cannot be an elite 2-way player even if he tries? Is that what you're saying?

[HarlemHeat37]

So, in the Finals, which he is almost sure to reach, he cannot be an elite 2-way player even if he tries? Is that what you're saying?

I'd be pretty shocked if he could be an "elite" 2-way player deep into a playoff run after all the miles that have been put on his body, and the offensive load he has had to carry during this time..he's physically declining, as well, as you would expect at his age..

He has more mileage on him in a 5 or 6 year span than any player in NBA history IIRC..unlike virtually all perimeter stars of the past and present, Lebron accumulated all that mileage while playing on both sides of the ball, too, on teams with no rim protection..

[dweaver99027]

I'd be pretty shocked if he could be an "elite" 2-way player deep into a playoff run after all the miles that have been put on his body, and the offensive load he has had to carry during this time..he's physically declining, as well, as you would expect at his age..

He has more mileage on him in a 5 or 6 year span than any player in NBA history IIRC..unlike virtually all perimeter stars of the past and present, Lebron accumulated all that mileage while playing on both sides of the ball, too, on teams with no rim protection..

All true. But: Breaking down with mileage and age is expected but a good indicator of how early that occurs is injury history. Which is pretty much zero for Lebron. Maybe this man is just built differently. I'll wager that if he is not playing in the Finals without his 2 best sidekicks again, and thus not having to iso on every possesion, he can still be an elite 2 way player in the Finals. If he wants to lock Kawhi down, he probably will because of his physical advantage.

Jordan himself could (and would) not maintain elite effort on both ends during the early Chicago years, his D came and went because of fatigue and frustration with lack of help from his teammates. And MJ was south of 30 then , in his physical peak. Nobody with a rational mind should expect a player to be a lockdown perimeter defender consistently while also being a one-man offense. Nobody has ever done it at the biggest stage, and nobody ever will.

[YGWHI]

I can also post a bunch of plays where Kawhi's been burned on D. Remember how he played the second half of the Clippers series?
Kawhi's defensive assignment was Redick. In the last three games JJ was shooting better but he still averaged only 13 ppg in the series, in the next series against Houston he averaged 16 ppg.
Kawhi didn't help him go supernova like LeBron's D did..Talking in Spurs-system terms of supernova=Kawhi scoring 23.6 points ppg in the last three games of the Finals.

[YGWHI]

The hate is strong in this forum
If you think I hate LeBron for posting the videos, you're so wrong. I always say he's one of the greatest players of all time, one of the best ever. But his defense has been overrated, his athleticism would make you assume he's one of the best defenders in the league, he is not.

[Arcadian]

He is. There are not 5 other players who affect the game on both ends like he does. Two way stars = the real superstars.

[LarryDavid]

Definitely top 10

Lebron
Curry
Durant
Westbrook
Harden
Davis

Uphill battle to prove he's better than any of those tbh until he breaks one of those players in a 7 game series.

2014 Finals don't count?

[Arcadian]

[deleted]

[T_L_P]

He is. There are not 5 other players who affect the game on both ends like he does. Two way stars = the real superstars.

By your definition, Leonard is > Curry, correct, since Steph isn't a two way star?

[Arcadian]

By your definition, Leonard is > Curry, correct, since Steph isn't a two way star?

I would say for most of their careers, Kawhi will be more valuable. Right now Steph is just going through a period of insane offensive dominance that makes him a top 5 player. Basically, your point is that exceptions can happen. But in general, I'll take two way players (especially forwards and centers) over scoring point guards.

[Thomas82]

I'd be pretty shocked if he could be an "elite" 2-way player deep into a playoff run after all the miles that have been put on his body, and the offensive load he has had to carry during this time..he's physically declining, as well, as you would expect at his age..

He has more mileage on him in a 5 or 6 year span than any player in NBA history IIRC..unlike virtually all perimeter stars of the past and present, Lebron accumulated all that mileage while playing on both sides of the ball, too, on teams with no rim protection..


All true. But: Breaking down with mileage and age is expected but a good indicator of how early that occurs is injury history. Which is pretty much zero for Lebron. Maybe this man is just built differently. I'll wager that if he is not playing in the Finals without his 2 best sidekicks again, and thus not having to iso on every possesion, he can still be an elite 2 way player in the Finals. If he wants to lock Kawhi down, he probably will because of his physical advantage.

Jordan himself could (and would) not maintain elite effort on both ends during the early Chicago years, his D came and went because of fatigue and frustration with lack of help from his teammates. And MJ was south of 30 then , in his physical peak. Nobody with a rational mind should expect a player to be a lockdown perimeter defender consistently while also being a one-man offense. Nobody has ever done it at the biggest stage, and nobody ever will.


+1

[Kidd K]

When SI.com and ESPN ranked Kawhi top 10 player some guys here were talking shit about him and the rankings...now he's easily a top 7-8 player.


Not sure, Barkley said Kawhi was a top 10-15 player three years ago, he always praised him.

Are you sure he's said "top 10"? I've never heard him say that before this season.

Kawhi is arguably top 10 now though. Top 15 easily.

[Cry Havoc]

2010-2013 Lebron was probably the best 2-way player in league history IMO, but ya, his defense fell off a cliff in 2014, and furthermore in 2015, tbh..understandable with the load he carries, the wear&tear and his current age, but still, I wouldn't necessarily classify him as a 2-way player "today", despite his strong defensive start for these first 2 weeks of 2015-2016..

Did you see his defense on Melo? Melo went off for 22 in the first half, then James switched, and Melo went 1-9 the rest of the game.

It also bears mentioning that James plays in the East, and only an idiot would go 100% all the time in the East, where you can put together a shambling corpse of a team and still be a lock for the 2nd round of the playoffs.

[bic50]

I don't think kawhi is top 5, more like top 10.

[Cry Havoc]

melo is a known choker,no surprise

leflop only can defend slow,fat melo now :lol

:wakeup

[Cry Havoc]

Leflop is the most overrated defender ,his defence has never as gd as kobe

Time to retire this troll. You're bad at it.

[silverblackfan]

I've loved watching the climb Kawhi has made up through the NBA ranks. I've liked this kid since day one. Even if back then all I hoped was he could be another Bruce. Needless to say he's already surpassed that and he still is improving. Not since the early days of LBJ has there been a player that I so intently watch on both ends of the court. The biggest thing I hope this new found hype improves is Kawhi's trips to the foul line. There have been many times over his career where he drives to the hole and doesn't get the call when guys like James, Durant, and Harden would have. I think that's part of the reason he settles for jumpers more than he should. Put it this way Kawhi is averaging 22 ppg on 3 FTA. While Harden is averaging 29 ppg on 12 FTA. If Kawhi can get to the line 3-4 more times a game plus move his 3 point percentage up a tic I think he will solidly be a top 5 player.

Kawhi I think is the biggest testament to the coaching of Pop. Yes he had all the physical tools and he had the work ethic and the drive to be great. But it was Pop who molded him into the player he is today. You look at a player like Ben Mclemore in Sac who has all the tools in the world to be the best 2 guard in the league and he is just wasting away in his situation. Kawhi and the Spurs were made for each other.

:bobo

[Neurosis]

No way can you consider Harden above Kawhi unless you're going only by offense. Kawhi is top2 in the league on D and top10 on offense, no question. Harden might be top3 offensively but he's not even top50 on D.

No way can you consider him above Kawhi at this point.

[HarlemHeat37]

Did you see his defense on Melo? Melo went off for 22 in the first half, then James switched, and Melo went 1-9 the rest of the game.

It also bears mentioning that James plays in the East, and only an idiot would go 100% all the time in the East, where you can put together a shambling corpse of a team and still be a lock for the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Ya, I mentioned his strong defensive start in my previous post..still, though, doubt he can sustain it, at this point, and I'm probably the biggest Lebron fan on SpursTalk(at least according to everybody else:lol)..

[T_L_P]

No way can you consider Harden above Kawhi unless you're going only by offense. Kawhi is top2 in the league on D and top10 on offense, no question. Harden might be top3 offensively but he's not even top50 on D.

No way can you consider him above Kawhi at this point.

In a vacuum Kawhi can be called a top two defender.

And he's not either on offense. There are certainly ten better offensive players out there. And just from this season, you can't even say Kawhi's top 15-20 (despite nice raw PPG numbers).

[100%duncan]

Did you see his defense on Melo? Melo went off for 22 in the first half, then James switched, and Melo went 1-9 the rest of the game.

It also bears mentioning that James plays in the East, and only an idiot would go 100% all the time in the East, where you can put together a shambling corpse of a team and still be a lock for the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Kawhi does it night in night out, lebron doesnt because he cant. Let's face it, he can be elite when it counts but no way you can put Lebron above kawhi in defense right now.

[YGWHI]

Are you sure he's said "top 10"? I've never heard him say that before this season.

He said that several times in the last few years....Before this season, the last time I heard him said it, was on Inside the NBA in 2014.

I can't find the video but some guys on reddit were talking about it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/22r4dy/kawhi_leonard_is_a_top_10_or_15_player_in_the_nba/

[Cry Havoc]

Kawhi does it night in night out, lebron doesnt because he cant. Let's face it, he can be elite when it counts but no way you can put Lebron above kawhi in defense right now.

Did I say that? No. I never said anything of the sort. In fact, I think Kawhi is probably the best wing defender I have seen since at at least LeBron's prime but more than likely, since Pippen. His ability to influence the game with his defense is not matched by anyone else in the league.

I think it would actually be somewhat stupid for LeBron to exert that kind of effort on both sides of the ball in the East, where you get 50 wins just for showing up in the conference.

Kawhi is also 6 years younger than LeBron and has about 10 years less NBA mileage on his body.

[spurraider21]

cane we rename apalisoc_9 to leonard228

[KL2]

In a vacuum Kawhi can be called a top two defender.

And he's not either on offense. There are certainly ten better offensive players out there. And just from this season, you can't even say Kawhi's top 15-20 (despite nice raw PPG numbers).

Like who? 22ppg on 52% shooting, and he's doing it in the West, the Spurs aren't exactly clicking either, they're screwing up the spacing but Leonard is still scoring regardless.

[cjw]

Time to retire this troll. You're bad at it.

Anyone who thinks Lebron is a "bad" defender doesn't understand basketball and they just look for reasons to hate him. He's not at his peak anymore, but is one of the few guys who can take over a game at either end. Don't forget that rebounding is part of playing defense, as it ends possessions. When it mattered most, he averaged 13+ in the Finals and over 11 throughout the playoffs.

[HarlemHeat37]

Like who? 22ppg on 52% shooting, and he's doing it in the West, the Spurs aren't exactly clicking either, they're screwing up the spacing but Leonard is still scoring regardless.

That poster is a Duncan player-fan IIRC..a few of them have posted in this thread, with predictable responses..

[Cry Havoc]

40years old jordan plays much better defence than leflop ever been

Bad troll! Bad! Back to the bridge with you!

[Neurosis]

In a vacuum Kawhi can be called a top two defender.

And he's not either on offense. There are certainly ten better offensive players out there. And just from this season, you can't even say Kawhi's top 15-20 (despite nice raw PPG numbers).

What two players could you say are definitely better defenders than Kawhi?

What ten offensive players could you say are better than Kawhi this season?

[dabom]

Kawhi is the best defender in the league. He gonna lock overated Dgreen just like last year.

[100%duncan]

Did I say that? No. I never said anything of the sort. In fact, I think Kawhi is probably the best wing defender I have seen since at at least LeBron's prime but more than likely, since Pippen. His ability to influence the game with his defense is not matched by anyone else in the league.

I think it would actually be somewhat stupid for LeBron to exert that kind of effort on both sides of the ball in the East, where you get 50 wins just for showing up in the conference.

Kawhi is also 6 years younger than LeBron and has about 10 years less NBA mileage on his body.

This argument is present in the first place because of what cjw said about lebron being better thank kawhi on defense

[cjw]

This argument is present in the first place because of what cjw (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=42093) said about lebron being better thank kawhi on defense

Fine fine, I give up. Was honestly trying to stir the pot a bit. Notice how I didn't say AD is a better defender than Kawhi (at this point, just a stat stuffer).

I just laugh when people think Lebron isn't an All NBA quality defender. He takes a ton of games off, but the East affords him that luxury. Pop's system also affords Kawhi the luxury of logging less minutes and having great team D around him to let him reach his max potential.

[Spurtacular]

leflop stan mad ?????? :sleep


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiyODnD0V5k


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Tfq3V6C5dA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTITRJp2bhI

And this rounds out Apaliscoc_9 's man crushes. I knew their had to be a fifth.

1. Anthony Davis
2. Stephen Curry
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Kawhi Leonard
5. Russell Westbrook

[T_L_P]

What two players could you say are definitely better defenders than Kawhi?

What ten offensive players could you say are better than Kawhi this season?

Again, in a vacuum you can't, but this season so far this season Gobert and Bogut have had a larger defensive impact.

Offense:

Curry
Durant
LeBron
Blake
Lillard
Harden
Dirk
Lowry
Bledsoe
George
Cousins

Then you have the arguable guys like Horford, Butler, Beal, Bosh.

Then there's Manu, who's best our unquestioned best offensive player this year, but doesn't have the minutes or touches. And Chris Paul, who's sucked so far, but if he picks it up he'll be up there again.

So Kawhi's anywhere from 15-17 for me (I was off when I said barely top 20). The reality is good offense simply impacts the game more than good defense. That's why Curry is having one of the best seasons ever right now, despite his fairly average defensive play, and Kawhi isn't, despite his play on both ends.

[100%duncan]

Jesus christ those names having "better" offense than kawhi. These takes smh lillard dirk lowry bledsoe george beal horford butler beal bosh :lmao holy fuck

[T_L_P]

Jesus christ those names having "better" offense than kawhi. These takes smh lillard dirk lowry bledsoe george beal horford butler beal bosh :lmao holy fuck

We are talking about this season, you know? Bledsoe is scoring more, on higher efficiency, with like five more Assists, and his team's offense is one of the worst in the league when he goes to the bench.

How can you say Leonard is playing better offense than him this year? Because he's Isolating a lot and the shots are going in (still to a lesser degree than Bledsoe's?) We went crazy about that last year too until he went cold at the end of the Playoffs and then he couldn't contribute anything to our O.

[100%duncan]

We are talking about this season, you know? Bledsoe is scoring more, on higher efficiency, with like five more Assists, and he's teams offense is one of the worst in the league when he goes to the bench.

How can you say Leonard is playing better offense than him this year?

A player is bound to have better stats when he's the primary option without any restrictions at all don't you think?

[T_L_P]

A player is bound to have better stats when he's the primary option without any restrictions at all don't you think?

His Usage% is almost the exact same as Leonard's, and I don't see a lot of restrictions on his game either (Kawhi rarely passes when he gets the ball inside the key, which I like of course since he's really the only starter playing good on offense).

Even if you disregard the arguables (though you should be paying attention to some like Dirk, George and Beal because they are doing a damn lot this year), there's still a list of 10+ right there better than Kawhi, which is what I was contesting.

I still need Kawhi do this for a long period of time before I can put him in that top group. We went crazy about his scoring and efficiency last year (even though it was a lot of ISO-ball and bad shots), and then when it came down to crunch time (final games of the Clippers series) he froze up and couldn't contribute on O. He was still pushing it but instead of shooting 50%, he was shooting 25%, and we lost. Guys like Bledsoe, George, Lowry can still contribute when their shots aren't falling - I still don't see that with Kawhi (again, I'm talking strictly offense here).

[100%duncan]

His Usage% is almost the exact same as Leonard's, and I don't see a lot of restrictions on his game either (Kawhi rarely passes when he gets the ball inside the key, which I like of course since he's really the only starter playing good on offense).

Even if you disregard the arguables (though you should be paying attention to some like Dirk, George and Beal because they are doing a damn lot this year), there's still a list of 10+ right there better than Kawhi, which is what I was contesting.

I still need Kawhi do this for a long period of time before I can put him in that top group. We went crazy about his scoring and efficiency last year (even though it was a lot of ISO-ball and bad shots), and then when it came down to crunch time (final games of the Clippers series) he froze up and couldn't contribute on O. He was still pushing it but instead of shooting 50%, he was shooting 25%, and we lost. Guys like Bledsoe, George, Lowry can still contribute when their shots aren't falling - I still don't see that with Kawhi (again, I'm talking strictly offense here).

So for Dirk, George, Lowry who were shit last season and are having a few good games this year, it's fine but with kawhi who has proved his game 2014playoffs and last season, up until now, you need more proof? And dont you think its unfair to say that they contribute more when their shots arent falling since if kawhi's shot isnt then the Spurs have a lot more options as compared to those who will always have the ball in their hands no matter what?

George- chucking up shots a lot, inefficient,
Beal- inconsistent, 2nd fiddle to wall, not necessarily having a good season either
Butler- does this guy get more hype than anyone ever?
Dirk- didnt he just have 1 good game and is looking like shit so far this season? Havent followed them
Lowry-always starts out strong every season only to decline as months pass by
Bosh- havent followed him

[dabom]

How were those guys numbers when they got bounced compared to kawhi?

[Kidd K]

He said that several times in the last few years....Before this season, the last time I heard him said it, was on Inside the NBA in 2014.

I can't find the video but some guys on reddit were talking about it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/22r4dy/kawhi_leonard_is_a_top_10_or_15_player_in_the_nba/

Hey thanks for the link. :) Looks like you're right after all. Good memory!

[Neurosis]

Again, in a vacuum you can't, but this season so far this season Gobert and Bogut have had a larger defensive impact.

Offense:

Curry
Durant
LeBron
Blake
Lillard
Harden
Dirk
Lowry
Bledsoe
George
Cousins

Then you have the arguable guys like Horford, Butler, Beal, Bosh.

Then there's Manu, who's best our unquestioned best offensive player this year, but doesn't have the minutes or touches. And Chris Paul, who's sucked so far, but if he picks it up he'll be up there again.

So Kawhi's anywhere from 15-17 for me (I was off when I said barely top 20). The reality is good offense simply impacts the game more than good defense. That's why Curry is having one of the best seasons ever right now, despite his fairly average defensive play, and Kawhi isn't, despite his play on both ends.

Curry - yes
Durant - yes
Lebron - yes

The others aren't clear cut above and some are definitely not.

Harden is shooting 37% this season. He's an overrated chucker and he plays bad defense. Dirk's been good but his D is even poorer in his old age (was never great).

None of those guys have the overall game impact that Kawhi does. Even if you make an argument for their offense being better, they don't hold a candle to Kawhi on D and no, good offense isn't more valuable than good D.

Stopping a bucket is as good as scoring one. It's just much more difficult to measure what "stops" a bucket but in strictly analytical terms the two are equal.

[YGWHI]

We are talking about this season, you know? Bledsoe is scoring more, on higher efficiency...

This season:
Kawhi 52.6 FG%
Bledsoe 49.7 FG%

Anyway, if you care about efficiency, why did you say Buttler (43.6 FG%) is better than Kawhi on offense? Kawhi's offensive game is more effective and versatile, we don't see very often, wings who can play in the post and have a mid-range shot.

Granted, after the All-Star game Butler sells contact and gets the calls. But that's the main reason I'd like Kawhi to be considered an All-Star and make the roster this season.

Also, Kawhi makes those numbers playing in the West, if you look Butler's stats against WC teams...you'd realize what I say.
The same we can said about Horford after his injuries.


How can you say Leonard is playing better offense than him this year? Because he's Isolating a lot and the shots are going in (still to a lesser degree than Bledsoe's?) We went crazy about that last year too until he went cold at the end of the Playoffs and then he couldn't contribute anything to our O.
Yup. Kawhi went cold...after averaging 24.7 ppg on 60 FG% in the first games. It's weird but I can't remember that kind of performance from Bledsoe in playoffs.

[HarlemHeat37]

We are talking about this season, you know? Bledsoe is scoring more, on higher efficiency, with like five more Assists, and his team's offense is one of the worst in the league when he goes to the bench.

How can you say Leonard is playing better offense than him this year? Because he's Isolating a lot and the shots are going in (still to a lesser degree than Bledsoe's?) We went crazy about that last year too until he went cold at the end of the Playoffs and then he couldn't contribute anything to our O.

This is a really strange argument, since Bledsoe's shooting is clearly going to naturally regress, tbh:lol..he's a poor shooter that can't play in the halfcourt, yet is shooting 71%(!!!) from 10-16 feet and 46% from 16 and out, which is levels better than anything he has ever approached in the past..

[apalisoc_9]

A broken clock is right once everyday i guess

[baseline bum]

leflop stan mad ?????? :sleep


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiyODnD0V5k

...


That first video made me think of the time Kobe did that pull his shorts up crap against Manu in 2003, and Ginobili ran right by him for a layup.

Here we go: 2:55 mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw5QxYHxHdk

[Canyonero]

A broken clock is right once everyday i guess

Twice

[Cry Havoc]

Again, in a vacuum you can't, but this season so far this season Gobert and Bogut have had a larger defensive impact.

Offense:

Curry
Durant
LeBron
Blake
Lillard
Harden
Dirk
Lowry
Bledsoe
George
Cousins

Then you have the arguable guys like Horford, Butler, Beal, Bosh.

Then there's Manu, who's best our unquestioned best offensive player this year, but doesn't have the minutes or touches. And Chris Paul, who's sucked so far, but if he picks it up he'll be up there again.

So Kawhi's anywhere from 15-17 for me (I was off when I said barely top 20). The reality is good offense simply impacts the game more than good defense. That's why Curry is having one of the best seasons ever right now, despite his fairly average defensive play, and Kawhi isn't, despite his play on both ends.

If only the regular season mattered, you'd be right.

Fortunately, it doesn't. When the game slows down in the playoffs, offenses get ground up by capable defenses. If "good offense" trumped "good defense", the Suns would have a ring. But it doesn't. Curry isn't having one of the best seasons ever because he's "good" on offense, he's the best shooter of all-time. Total outlier.

:lol @ Kawhi being not top 10 when he's closer to top 5 in the league.

[Dverde]

Has anyone won Defensive Player of the Year and MVP in the same year? Kawhi is making a case for both awards so far.

[Mel_13]

Has anyone won Defensive Player of the Year and MVP in the same year? Kawhi is making a case for both awards so far.

Jordan and Hakeem.

[Cry Havoc]

Has anyone won Defensive Player of the Year and MVP in the same year? Kawhi is making a case for both awards so far.

No one is getting MVP this year aside from Curry unless he gets injured.

[Vito Corleone]

Kawhi is the resurrection of Scottie Pippen. Never seen another guy that can do what Scottie could, his overall numbers are just like Scottie's. He will give you 20+ pts about 6 rebs about 5 assists and absolute lockdown defense.

[Mugen]

That first video made me think of the time Kobe did that pull his shorts up crap against Manu in 2003, and Ginobili ran right by him for a layup.

Here we go: 2:55 mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw5QxYHxHdk

:lmao

[GSH]

2010-2013 Lebron was probably the best 2-way player in league history IMO, but ya, his defense fell off a cliff in 2014, and furthermore in 2015, tbh..understandable with the load he carries, the wear&tear and his current age, but still, I wouldn't necessarily classify him as a 2-way player "today", despite his strong defensive start for these first 2 weeks of 2015-2016..

Any time you make a Top 10 list, or say someone was the best ever, people are going to pick it apart. I hate to let you down. :)

You may be right about James. But people forget that Kobe made the All Defensive Team 12 times. I know it's not popular with Spurs fans, but he was pretty damned good on both ends of the court. James is more physically intimidating, so that may give him an edge. But I'm pretty sure it's not fair to judge Kobe based on a few video clips.

BTW - Pippen was no slouch on the offensive end. When Jordan went off to play baseball, Pippen just almost took the Bulls back to the Championship series. I hope nobody doubts how good he was on the defensive end.

[ElNono]

That first video made me think of the time Kobe did that pull his shorts up crap against Manu in 2003, and Ginobili ran right by him for a layup.

Here we go: 2:55 mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw5QxYHxHdk

lmao @ Phil calling a timeout and calling his ass out right afterwards... but when he did that to Pau :cry Pau was a pussy :cry

[siraulo23]

when did barkley say this? which episode of inside the nba

[bic50]

when did barkley say this? which episode of inside the nba

I only remember him calling him top 10 against the cavs last season

[baseline bum]

lmao @ Phil calling a timeout and calling his ass out right afterwards... but when he did that to Pau :cry Pau was a pussy :cry

:lol Kobe just walks by and sits down, having quit the season :lol

[siraulo23]

I only remember him calling him top 10 against the cavs last season

barkley definitely mentioned kawhi as top 5 this season, i just cant find which episode :lol Reddit was also talking about this topic but no link of the video

[Seventyniner]

Why is there so much focus on offense when deciding on MVP? It seems like the best offensive player gets the award, and if two are tied then defense is a tiebreaker.

What if the primary focus was on defense for the MVP, with offense being the tiebreaker? The way things stand an A+ offensive player will always be at least an MVP candidate regardless of defense (:lol Nash), while an A+ defensive player has to score 22+ to even be in the conversation. Kawhi really is that destructive on defense.

Too bad the box score is always skewed to offensive numbers.

[Robz4000]

Just called Kawhi a Top 2/3 player.

[Nathan89]

Pacers:lol

[spurraider21]

his 3pt% is up to 50 now :wow

[Dre_7]

Just called Kawhi a Top 2/3 player.

:tu

He is right.

[100%duncan]

Just called Kawhi a Top 2/3 player.

:worthy:

[apalisoc_9]

Just called Kawhi a Top 2/3 player.
Video or it did not happen

[houston spurs fan]

Video or it did not happen
Watch the games bitch.

[BatManu20]

That first video made me think of the time Kobe did that pull his shorts up crap against Manu in 2003, and Ginobili ran right by him for a layup.

Here we go: 2:55 mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw5QxYHxHdk

:lol nice find. I always remember that Manu euro-step on Shaq, but never realized it was only possible because of Kobe's pathetic defense.

[BatManu20]

his 3pt% is up to 50 now :wow

It probably won't hold up, but the fact that Kawhi is even in this position in the first place is pretty unbelievable and a tremendous credit to his work ethic, as well as Chip Engelland and the Spurs staff for working with him on his shot. The major weakness on Kawhi's scouting report coming into the league was his jump shot and it was the reason a lot of teams passed on him in the draft. They thought he'd never be anything more than your typical NBA athletic wing defender. The fact that he's one of the best 3-point shooters/overall offensive threats in the NBA right now speaks volumes about him, his work ethic, and the ability of the Spurs' coaching staff to work with him to improve over the years.

[apalisoc_9]

Watch the games bitch.

I dont watch nba on tnt halftime and postgame.shows..I go on my phone.

Id rather do something than watch kenny vanilla asa talk bball

[houston spurs fan]

I dont watch nba on tnt halftime and postgame.shows..I go on my phone.

Id rather do something than watch kenny vanilla asa talk bball
Then why make a post saying "video or it didn't happen?" Do your own research.

[spursistan]

Video or it did not happen
He did say, tbh...Kawhi need these mainstream celebrity votes on national TV :lol

[Robz4000]

Video or it did not happen

Don't record any of this. Do they post vids of Inside the NBA on YouTube? Happened right towards the beginning. Chuck also said Parker should be an All-Star this year.

[houston spurs fan]

Don't record any of this. Do they post vids of Inside the NBA on YouTube? Happened right towards the beginning. Chuck also said Parker should be an All-Star this year.
Parker should be an all star

[spursistan]

Post-game show..He said it..

Anyway, i think after 20 games; Kawhi is surely a Top 5 player in the league..Will he keep it up after 82 games? I'm not sure..I mean somebody like Anthony Davis doesn't crack my top 5 in first 20 games after getting all kind of ridiculous hype for MVP/DPOY..plenty can change in that ranking safe for (healthy) Curry towering over the league..

[Robz4000]

Parker should be an all star

Eh, I'd rather see Manu go although it won't happen. Parker's had a good start to the season compared to expectations, but this team would have a much worse record without Manu. Same with Timmy but he's done with the ASG I think.

[houston spurs fan]

Eh, I'd rather see Manu go although it won't happen. Parker's had a good start to the season compared to expectations, but this team would have a much worse record without Manu. Same with Timmy but he's done with the ASG I think.
Disagree, all 3 are important. Worse record without Parker no question.

[Robz4000]

Disagree, all 3 are important. Worse record without Parker no question.

Never said Parker wasn't, just that I've been much more impressed with Manu.

[dabom]

I dont watch nba on tnt halftime and postgame.shows..I go on my phone.

Id rather do something than watch kenny vanilla asa talk bball

nba.com spurs grizz highlights. At the very end of the 3min clip. :toast

[spurraider21]

i remember paul george looked like a top 3 player for the first couple of months a couple of years back, but leonard has been playing at this level going back to the last couple months of last season, so there's a pretty realistic chance he sustains this level of play (not the 3pt shooting, but the overall level)