Shadow Warrior: How Golden State utilizes the threat of Stephen Curry

[ambchang]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14110312/how-golden-state-warriors-use-fear-stephen-curry-weapon

The Curry hype train is going full blown. While I think Curry is shooting at an unprecedented rate, and his ability to pull up and make contested long range jumpers is the best I have ever seen, or even beyond what I imagined to be humanly possible, too much of GSW's success was granted to him.

Put Curry on a flawed team like the Cavs without Lebron, or the Wolves, or the Lakers, and he'd be a high-scoring PG who leads his team to an 8th seed. What really makes the Warriors so dangerous is how every single one of the players are a threat to pass, drive and shoot, which gives them all kinds of options. Curry isn't the only superstar who requires constant double teams, but the GSW are the only team that features wave after wave of players who can do everything well. The amazing thing is that after a screen and roll, the Warriors have the option of having the ball handler shoot, pass then cut, have the screener receive the ball and shoot, receive the ball and pass for another cutter, run another screen and roll, drive and kick out, and they can do it time after time after time until the defense breaks down. There are no options for the defenders, and that is what makes them great.

I don't really think you can reasonably replace Curry with any other superstar and expect the same results, and I agree that Curry is really a big part of their success, but he is getting the lion's share as if his other teammates are just feasting off him, and that is not true. The only other teams Curry can have this level of impact would be the Spurs and the Hawks, which, not coincidentally, are running the same system.

[HarlemHeat37]

http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2013/04/30/hires-803aff14d4eb9628305c7fad30d289a05b5c92f7.jpg

[ambchang]

http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2013/04/30/hires-803aff14d4eb9628305c7fad30d289a05b5c92f7.jpg

So a proponent of team ball and ball movement is now having issues with people giving credit to a team?

What's your view anyways? That Curry is historically great and the Warriors' success is due mostly to his offense, or the Warriors are playing as a team, making them that much better than basketball in the 80s and 90s where isolation plays were the one and only play?

[lefty]

lol HH can't handle the truth :lol

[313]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14110312/how-golden-state-warriors-use-fear-stephen-curry-weapon

The Curry hype train is going full blown. While I think Curry is shooting at an unprecedented rate, and his ability to pull up and make contested long range jumpers is the best I have ever seen, or even beyond what I imagined to be humanly possible, too much of GSW's success was granted to him.

Put Curry on a flawed team like the Cavs without Lebron, or the Wolves, or the Lakers, and he'd be a high-scoring PG who leads his team to an 8th seed. What really makes the Warriors so dangerous is how every single one of the players are a threat to pass, drive and shoot, which gives them all kinds of options. Curry isn't the only superstar who requires constant double teams, but the GSW are the only team that features wave after wave of players who can do everything well. The amazing thing is that after a screen and roll, the Warriors have the option of having the ball handler shoot, pass then cut, have the screener receive the ball and shoot, receive the ball and pass for another cutter, run another screen and roll, drive and kick out, and they can do it time after time after time until the defense breaks down. There are no options for the defenders, and that is what makes them great.

I don't really think you can reasonably replace Curry with any other superstar and expect the same results, and I agree that Curry is really a big part of their success, but he is getting the lion's share as if his other teammates are just feasting off him, and that is not true. The only other teams Curry can have this level of impact would be the Spurs and the Hawks, which, not coincidentally, are running the same system.
This is all true, but a bigger reason imo why they're so good is their defensive personnel. From the starting unit, to the 10th guy off the bench, they're all lengthy, mobile, above average defenders. They can switch everything and swarm teams on defense, sort of like the old OKC teams used to with Wb, Thabo, KD, Ibaka, except much better.

I don't think Curry is being overrated on offense. The motion offense is heavily reliant on a PG that can shoot(see; Spurs with Patty on the floor) and have a strong gravity off the ball imo. If the Warriors had Teague instead, the Warriors would still be a very good team, but having Steph allows the motion offense to realize it's true potential imo.

[RsxPiimp]

http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2013/04/30/hires-803aff14d4eb9628305c7fad30d289a05b5c92f7.jpg

:lol..

[Killakobe81]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14110312/how-golden-state-warriors-use-fear-stephen-curry-weapon

The Curry hype train is going full blown. While I think Curry is shooting at an unprecedented rate, and his ability to pull up and make contested long range jumpers is the best I have ever seen, or even beyond what I imagined to be humanly possible, too much of GSW's success was granted to him.

Put Curry on a flawed team like the Cavs without Lebron, or the Wolves, or the Lakers, and he'd be a high-scoring PG who leads his team to an 8th seed. What really makes the Warriors so dangerous is how every single one of the players are a threat to pass, drive and shoot, which gives them all kinds of options. Curry isn't the only superstar who requires constant double teams, but the GSW are the only team that features wave after wave of players who can do everything well. The amazing thing is that after a screen and roll, the Warriors have the option of having the ball handler shoot, pass then cut, have the screener receive the ball and shoot, receive the ball and pass for another cutter, run another screen and roll, drive and kick out, and they can do it time after time after time until the defense breaks down. There are no options for the defenders, and that is what makes them great.

I don't really think you can reasonably replace Curry with any other superstar and expect the same results, and I agree that Curry is really a big part of their success, but he is getting the lion's share as if his other teammates are just feasting off him, and that is not true. The only other teams Curry can have this level of impact would be the Spurs and the Hawks, which, not coincidentally, are running the same system.

Was a great article read it earlier ...thought about posting ... but not sure it would be appreciated.

[Kawhitstorm]

Two words: Drag Screens

[Killakobe81]

not sure why Amb or anyone else have a problem with the star getting a lion's share of the credit. it has ALWAYS been that way in the NBA. Even if you argue that their positional flexibility, team offense/defense and overall high skill-set are all part of why the Dubs rang last year This year his shooting has made all of that even more potent. There are good ball movement/defensive teams like the Hawks but they dont have steph ... if we switch PG's Steph probably makes ATL better (not champs) and Teague would make GSW worse ...but probably still a good team. None of that changes the impact, gravitational pull or just overall amazing play of steph Curry THIS year. Like AMB said he is shooting the ball better than anyone could of expected heck, right now better than anyone in the NBA has ever shot. Some of the shots he is taking traditionally would be horrible shots but not with Curry not this year.

And LOL at the Nash comparisons. I agree Nash had better vision but Curry is narrowing that. Plus he is in the top 2 in hockey assists. So not only is he dropping 35 and 5 his game is getting another 4-6 hockey assists.The kid is amazing.

[DMC]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14110312/how-golden-state-warriors-use-fear-stephen-curry-weapon

The Curry hype train is going full blown. While I think Curry is shooting at an unprecedented rate, and his ability to pull up and make contested long range jumpers is the best I have ever seen, or even beyond what I imagined to be humanly possible, too much of GSW's success was granted to him.

Put Curry on a flawed team like the Cavs without Lebron, or the Wolves, or the Lakers, and he'd be a high-scoring PG who leads his team to an 8th seed. What really makes the Warriors so dangerous is how every single one of the players are a threat to pass, drive and shoot, which gives them all kinds of options. Curry isn't the only superstar who requires constant double teams, but the GSW are the only team that features wave after wave of players who can do everything well. The amazing thing is that after a screen and roll, the Warriors have the option of having the ball handler shoot, pass then cut, have the screener receive the ball and shoot, receive the ball and pass for another cutter, run another screen and roll, drive and kick out, and they can do it time after time after time until the defense breaks down. There are no options for the defenders, and that is what makes them great.

I don't really think you can reasonably replace Curry with any other superstar and expect the same results, and I agree that Curry is really a big part of their success, but he is getting the lion's share as if his other teammates are just feasting off him, and that is not true. The only other teams Curry can have this level of impact would be the Spurs and the Hawks, which, not coincidentally, are running the same system.
Lion's share must not include that Finals MVP trophy.

[DMC]

not sure why Amb or anyone else have a problem with the star getting a lion's share of the credit. it has ALWAYS been that way in the NBA. Even if you argue that their positional flexibility, team offense/defense and overall high skill-set are all part of why the Dubs rang last year This year his shooting has made all of that even more potent. There are good ball movement/defensive teams like the Hawks but they dont have steph ... if we switch PG's Steph probably makes ATL better (not champs) and Teague would make GSW worse ...but probably still a good team. None of that changes the impact, gravitational pull or just overall amazing play of steph Curry THIS year. Like AMB said he is shooting the ball better than anyone could of expected heck, right now better than anyone in the NBA has ever shot. Some of the shots he is taking traditionally would be horrible shots but not with Curry not this year.

And LOL at the Nash comparisons. I agree Nash had better vision but Curry is narrowing that. Plus he is in the top 2 in hockey assists. So not only is he dropping 35 and 5 his game is getting another 4-6 hockey assists.The kid is amazing.
Somehow I'm not surprised to see you lobbying for player vs team love.

[Killakobe81]

Somehow I'm not surprised to see you lobbying for player vs team love.

I never said that DMC, what I said was that is how it has almost always been. Right or wrong.

Oh and Somehow I am not surprised thet you and posters of your ilk have no issue heaping teh lion's share of the praise on Pau, Dirk Lebron and of course Tim. But when a player is a threat. or celebrates to much you works so hard to deflect praise away from the star. If you read the original article. Credit was given to Draymond and the Dubs offense. Draymond is the perfect outlet for steph because he has learned to nail the top of the key 3 and is a deft passer.

Show me the threads where Tim gets a lion share of the credit and the posts pointing to how much credit Pop, Tony, David Manu etc deserve and the "hand-wringing" over said article ... I'll wait.

[DMC]

I never said that DMC, what I said was that is how it has almost always been. Right or wrong.

Oh and Somehow I am not surprised thet you and posters of your ilk have no issue heaping teh lion's share of the praise on Pau, Dirk Lebron and of course Tim. But when a player is a threat. or celebrates to much you works so hard to deflect praise away from the star. If you read the original article. Credit was given to Draymond and the Dubs offense. Draymond is the perfect outlet for steph because he has learned to nail the top of the key 3 and is a deft passer.

Show me the threads where Tim gets a lion share of the credit and the posts pointing to how much credit Pop, Tony, David Manu etc deserve and the "hand-wringing" over said article ... I'll wait.
Run that through a spell checker and get back to me, Rain man.

[Killakobe81]

From the article ...

Often, the play is made by Draymond Green, who has learned to thrive as the assist man in four-on-threes. Green, by the way, has flourished into quite the point forward, averaging six assists in this young season. In the above clip, you can see how quickly he reads and reacts to a situation he knows all too well.

"Experience is the greatest teacher," is a favorite phrase of Green's, a player who bests larger foes with his smarts. He has served as Curry's safety valve for some years now, and he only improves with practice. Watch how he drives and kicks like an atypical power forward.

Not sure how that is not giving the team credit. How about this?!

The story of Curry's shadow impact isn't just about Steph. It's an advantage augmented by smart teammates who know how to leverage what they have. Green in particular is a lethal opportunist. Look how he punishes Marc Gasol for stepping maybe a couple feet outside his comfort zone to contain Curry

Motherfuckers should try and read every once in a while, you may learn something. Steph eats first. he is the star but there is plenety of credit and praise to go around. Draymond, Klay and Bogut can thank steph for their extensions as well. Barnes just turned down $80 million.

[Killakobe81]

Run that through a spell checker and get back to me, Rain man.

Spelling smack? If you are so smart read the article posted and show me how Steph's team wasn't credited? Spelling well hasn't helped your comprehension skills.

[ambchang]

not sure why Amb or anyone else have a problem with the star getting a lion's share of the credit. it has ALWAYS been that way in the NBA. Even if you argue that their positional flexibility, team offense/defense and overall high skill-set are all part of why the Dubs rang last year This year his shooting has made all of that even more potent. There are good ball movement/defensive teams like the Hawks but they dont have steph ... if we switch PG's Steph probably makes ATL better (not champs) and Teague would make GSW worse ...but probably still a good team. None of that changes the impact, gravitational pull or just overall amazing play of steph Curry THIS year. Like AMB said he is shooting the ball better than anyone could of expected heck, right now better than anyone in the NBA has ever shot. Some of the shots he is taking traditionally would be horrible shots but not with Curry not this year.

And LOL at the Nash comparisons. I agree Nash had better vision but Curry is narrowing that. Plus he is in the top 2 in hockey assists. So not only is he dropping 35 and 5 his game is getting another 4-6 hockey assists.The kid is amazing.

Just because it's always been that way doesn't mean I have to accept it.

The funny thing is, star players used to have even more impact on teams winning and losing because of the isolation mode of basketball, but with rule changes that favour ball movement, the impact of individual stars have decreased. A team can only really win it all with full blown team ball (unless you have Lebron in his prime, and even then, Miami played some great team D and O when needed) the last few years. Part of this speaks to the development of team ball, but part of it also speaks to the narrowing gap between the greatest players vs. the average ones. It used to be a case where the best players in the game (Bird, Magic, Jordan, Barkley, Hakeem) were so much better than their average counterparts (Vern Fleming, Randy Wittman, Kenny Walker types) that they can exploit that matchup to the fullest extent and just carry teams to victories, even well planned games like the playoffs.

Now you basically have crap at C and to an extent PF, very weak at the SG position, that a start player isn't all that much better than an average counterpart. The other side of the coin is that the average player today is so much better than those in the 80s that the talent gap has narrowed to a point where a star player can no longer will a team to victory on his own.

[Killakobe81]

Just because it's always been that way doesn't mean I have to accept it.

The funny thing is, star players used to have even more impact on teams winning and losing because of the isolation mode of basketball, but with rule changes that favour ball movement, the impact of individual stars have decreased. A team can only really win it all with full blown team ball (unless you have Lebron in his prime, and even then, Miami played some great team D and O when needed) the last few years. Part of this speaks to the development of team ball, but part of it also speaks to the narrowing gap between the greatest players vs. the average ones. It used to be a case where the best players in the game (Bird, Magic, Jordan, Barkley, Hakeem) were so much better than their average counterparts (Vern Fleming, Randy Wittman, Kenny Walker types) that they can exploit that matchup to the fullest extent and just carry teams to victories, even well planned games like the playoffs.

Now you basically have crap at C and to an extent PF, very weak at the SG position, that a start player isn't all that much better than an average counterpart. The other side of the coin is that the average player today is so much better than those in the 80s that the talent gap has narrowed to a point where a star player can no longer will a team to victory on his own.

Read my post above ...and did you read the full article? Plenty of credit given to team-mates especially Draymond. Curry's threat of scoring opens up Golden state's offense is the whole point of the article YOU posted ...

[DMC]

Spelling smack? If you are so smart read the article posted and show me how Steph's team wasn't credited? Spelling well hasn't helped your comprehension skills.
Nah I just wanted to rattle your chain lol

[Killakobe81]

Nah I just wanted to rattle your chain lol

Fair enough ...
But plenty of credit was given to Dubs, the offense and Draymond. Not sure this article was a good example of Amb's point.

[ambchang]

Read my post above ...and did you read the full article? Plenty of credit given to team-mates especially Draymond. Curry's threat of scoring opens up Golden state's offense is the whole point of the article YOU posted ...

I read it, but the entire premise was still around how the team can function like this because of Curry's ability to bend the defense. It is true to an extent, because it gives them that much more room to operate (drive, cut, pass, shoot), but this system can still work very well, even with a good shooting PG who has great court vision. Stockton and Nash would thrive in a system like this.

[Killakobe81]

I read it, but the entire premise was still around how the team can function like this because of Curry's ability to bend the defense. It is true to an extent, because it gives them that much more room to operate (drive, cut, pass, shoot), but this system can still work very well, even with a good shooting PG who has great court vision. Stockton and Nash would thrive in a system like this.

I agree they would do well because both are great players. but Curry's willingness to take the number of shots he does plus the added range he shoots from is the point of teh article you are missing. YEs they could and would thrive (their teams too) but the point of this article is the threat that Curry poses is very different than the normal MVP caliber PG. Doesnt mean he is better (i think he is) but the threat is different.

[ambchang]

I agree they would do well because both are great players. but Curry's willingness to take the number of shots he does plus the added range he shoots from is the point of teh article you are missing. YEs they could and would thrive (their teams too) but the point of this article is the threat that Curry poses is very different than the normal MVP caliber PG. Doesnt mean he is better (i think he is) but the threat is different.

The article pretty much said he's one of a kind in the history of the league, and i disagree. Lets be honest, he is on a ridiculous how streak facing an era of soft perimeter defense. Mark price would be great in this system too.