French Spurs fans...

[ElNono]

I know we have a few here... hope everyone is safe and sound, tbh...

[HarlemHeat37]

Yep, fucking sad what has happened to France the past few years, tbh..

Fucking lefty..smh..

[NASpurs]

Yep, fucking sad what has happened to France the past few years, tbh..

Fucking lefty..smh..

:lol

Stay safe mes amis françaises.

[RD2191]

My condolences to the deceased.

[RD2191]

Shout out to Brazil. Stay safe homie.

[BillMc]

I know we have a few here... hope everyone is safe and sound, tbh...

Terrible tragedy.

[DarrinS]

Puts things in perspective.

[SAGirl]

Really scary... a prayer for them.

[td4mvp2k]

porker RIP

[Venti Quattro]

lefty is offline, coincidence? I think not

[Venti Quattro]

Also, a live thread of what's happening in Paris: https://www.reddit.com/live/vwwmdb26t78v

This happened during the France v Germany friendly:

665285613961244673

[Brazil]

Scary shit... I'm in Brazil so far from Paris but I'm scared for friends and family... Fucking horrible

[ElNono]

Scary shit... I'm in Brazil so far from Paris but I'm scared for friends and family... Fucking horrible

Hope everyone is allright...

[Brazil]

Hope everyone is allright...

Im receiving emails from everybody so far so good... Thanks

[timtonymanu]

Puts things in perspective.

[Robz4000]

Yep, fucking sad what has happened to France the past few years, tbh..

Fucking lefty..smh..

:lol saw this thread and was about to post the same thing

[Robz4000]

But yeah, shit sucks. It's time to really do something about ISIS.

Any STers who might've been out in Paris during this?

[BatManu20]

Unreal. Thoughts with those in Paris. Goddamn.

[Admidave50]

:ihit

[BillMc]

Puts things in perspective.

[FkLA]

Enrique is an absolute cancer but his fanboys don't deserve this shit. Hope the French legion of ST is ok.

[RD2191]

Geezus. As many as 100 being reported dead inside the Bataclan. That's insane. What a horrible tragedy.

[turb0time]

Heart goes out to the French and hope any of our own are OK!

[Venti Quattro]

Geezus. As many as 100 being reported dead inside the Bataclan. That's insane. What a horrible tragedy.

140 total if you include those who died in the explosions outside Bataclan. Could have gone into the thousands if they let the people in Stade de France out after they heard a big explosion

[peacemaker885]

Prayers to the French people.

[FkLA]

140 total if you include those who died in the explosions outside Bataclan. Could have gone into the thousands if they let the people in Stade de France out after they heard a big explosion

Why do you say that? Did those asshole try to use the explosion to draw people out so they could shoot them out outside?

[Venti Quattro]

Why do you say that? Did those asshole try to use the explosion to draw people out so they could shoot them out outside?

That's a suicide attack, but you never know, they might have been waiting there to shoot people like targets on a theme park game

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Just awful, awful news.

Fuck terrorism, tbh.

[ILoveOranges]

Awful. Best wishes to the people of France and their families and friends.

[Brazil]

Crazy.... People inside Bataclan were texting families and tweeting telling the horror... They took the good decision about the stadium, there were 80,000 people, panic could have been dramatic

[Brazil]

For the rest thanks for your thoughts guys... It's really painful right now to see army marching in Paris and people locked home

[BackHome]

So sad I think if all the mothers and fathers and children who were executed and feel for their families knowing they will never come home and never see them.

[TXstbobcat]

Scary shit... I'm in Brazil so far from Paris but I'm scared for friends and family... Fucking horrible

I hope your friends and family are okay.

[Brazil]

I hope your friends and family are okay.

I got messages of closest families and friends they are ok. 5 of them were at the game... They are still trying to find a way to go home

[Maddog]

I got messages of closest families and friends they are ok. 5 of them were at the game... They are still trying to find a way to go home

Good ti hear they are safe.
Our thoughts and support are with the people of France

[100%duncan]

Crazy.... People inside Bataclan were texting families and tweeting telling the horror... They took the good decision about the stadium, there were 80,000 people, panic could have been dramatic

Hope your fam is safe bro. This shit is crazy. All those refugees taken in...

[DarrinS]

Crazy.... People inside Bataclan were texting families and tweeting telling the horror... They took the good decision about the stadium, there were 80,000 people, panic could have been dramatic

I can't fathom how people are able to text in a situation like that.

[RD2191]

Can civilians carry guns in Paris?

[daledondale]

My condolences to the deceased.

[boutons_deux]

Just awful, awful news.

Fuck terrorism, tbh.

This seems to be ISIS payback for France attacking ISIS in Syria, Iraq, which were destabilized along with all the Middle East and North Afriaca by US/UK invading Iraq for oil.

No dots to connect, it's a straight fucking line.

[Boogie Munster]

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/entertainment/Hostages-Eagles-of-Death-Metal-Paris-Concert-347921681.html

One of the band members among the ones slain.

[DarrinS]

This seems to be ISIS payback for France attacking ISIS in Syria, Iraq, which were destabilized along with all the Middle East and North Afriaca by US/UK invading Iraq for oil.

No dots to connect, it's a straight fucking line.


People of a particular religion have been doing these sorts of things since I've been alive, and I'm 46.

[boutons_deux]

People of a particular religion have been doing these sorts of things since I've been alive, and I'm 46.

Repugs caused this directly for the sake of BigOil.

[cd98]

Crazy.... People inside Bataclan were texting families and tweeting telling the horror... They took the good decision about the stadium, there were 80,000 people, panic could have been dramatic

The security at the game probably was the deterrent for the terrorists. They would have been stopped before they could cause such a high death toll. Just sick that people would think to do this.

[DarrinS]

Repugs caused this directly for the sake of BigOil.

The west has been fighting them for decades you slow fuck.

[ElNono]

Repugs caused this directly for the sake of BigOil.

Can you stop with the political tirade for one night and have a little respect?

[cd98]

The west has been fighting them for decades you slow fuck.

Yeah 9/11 was before Iraq invasion. And there were attacks on USS Cole.

[DarrinS]

Can you stop with the political tirade for one night and have a little respect?

I need to do the same, but that guy just pisses me off.

[hater]

RIP

No words.

Well some. Stop supporting the oust of Assad for imperialistic reasons. Realize Assads army is fightin these terrorists head on. Join forces and fight the terrorists. Wake up

[cd98]

The problem is these roaches have infiltrated major cities and you can't tell the moderate adherents from the extremes. I bet Pres Obama reconsiders letting Syrian refugees come here. Same with Germany and the other countries.

[Mamuza94]

RIP

No words.

Well some. Stop supporting the oust of Assad for imperialistic reasons. Realize Assads army is fightin these terrorists head on. Join forces and fight the terrorists. Wake up

+1

RIP my French brothers.

[FromWayDowntown]

Can you stop with the political tirade for one night and have a little respect?

+1

There's a time and a place. This thread, which is a wonderful gesture, is neither the time nor the place.

Prayers for Paris. Just a sickening night.

[cd98]

RIP

No words.

Well some. Stop supporting the oust of Assad for imperialistic reasons. Realize Assads army is fightin these terrorists head on. Join forces and fight the terrorists. Wake up

Way more complicated. We were going to bomb Assad out of power like a year ago. But it's hard to tell who are ISIS and moderates when US tried to arm the opposition to Assad. It's a disaster over there. They need to arm Jordan and let them clean up.

[Vic Petro]

Most emotional day I've had since 9/11.

[hater]

Way more complicated. We were going to bomb Assad out of power like a year ago. But it's hard to tell who are ISIS and moderates when US tried to arm the opposition to Assad. It's a disaster over there. They need to arm Jordan and let them clean up.


Sure but when in doubt, you kill all of them. Assads army the only army fighting all of them.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Can you stop with the political tirade for one night and have a little respect?

This. For pete's sake.

[DarrinS]

Way more complicated. We were going to bomb Assad out of power like a year ago. But it's hard to tell who are ISIS and moderates when US tried to arm the opposition to Assad. It's a disaster over there. They need to arm Jordan and let them clean up.

Combine an extremist ideology with 2015 communications technology. Extremely difficult problem and no simple solution.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

RIP

No words.

Well some. Stop supporting the oust of Assad for imperialistic reasons. Realize Assads army is fightin these terrorists head on. Join forces and fight the terrorists. Wake up
This... why don't we just ally with Assad and Russia? Good vs. Islam... shouldn't be a difficult fight with the 2 biggest superpowers and Europe on the same side.

[RD2191]

You can't kill an idea or a belief.

[hater]

You can't kill an idea or a belief.



#1 stop the regime change bullshit. That would help a lot.

Remember France led the ghadaffi oust. This is ghadaffis revenge IMO.

Stop the fucking regime change bullshit

[EVAY]

Thoughts and prayers for all Parisians and the families of the killed. What a horror.

[SupremeGuy]

RIP to those who died.


You can't kill an idea or a belief.Yes you can, you just need someone willing to do what it takes.

[SupremeGuy]

People of a particular religion have been doing these sorts of things since I've been alive, and I'm 46.But but but republicans, guns, oil, Trump, etc...

:cry

[DarrinS]

It's crazy how few people it takes to f-up the lives of so many.

[hater]

It's crazy how few people it takes to f-up the lives of so many.

Guns and bombs tend to do that

[SupremeGuy]

Guns and bombs tend to do thatCrazy people tend to do that...

[EVAY]

Mon coeur est cassé avec les événements se produisant à Paris.

Nous sommes un avec la France.

[spurs10]

My condolences to all the families torn apart by this atrocity. I hope none of the French posters and fans here were directly harmed. Acts like this are against all humanity no matter where you're from. God bless the victims and the injured.

[hater]

Crazy people tend to do that...

Crazy ppl can't kill scores of ppl without guns and bombs

[Brazil]

140-150 people dead... :depressed

[DAF86]

Scary shit, tbh. Fucking fanatics.

[DarrinS]

140-150 people dead... :depressed


Might be even more than that. I'm hearing 8 terrorists killed, but who knows if that is all of them.

[bigfan]

Bloody savages.

[RD2191]

RIP to those who died.

Yes you can, you just need someone willing to do what it takes.

No. You really can't. You have a way for 1.6 billion Muslims to abandon their faith?

[GSH]

This seems to be ISIS payback for France attacking ISIS in Syria, Iraq, which were destabilized along with all the Middle East and North Afriaca by US/UK invading Iraq for oil.

No dots to connect, it's a straight fucking line.


Leave it to a fucking cretin to start this shit while there is still fresh blood in the street. You're an even bigger piece of shit than I gave you credit for, and that's saying a lot.

[BillMc]

My condolences to all the families torn apart by this atrocity. I hope none of the French posters and fans here were directly harmed. Acts like this are against all humanity no matter where you're from. God bless the victims and the injured.

Well said. +1 million.

[jiggy_55]

No. You really can't. You have a way for 1.6 billion Muslims to abandon their faith?

Islam doesn't preach violence, it preaches peace and love. Don't let these extremists cloud your judgement on a faith of as you said more than 1.6 billion people. How much of a % do these crazy terrorists represent in Islam? Barely anything. They are using the name of Islam to do what they want and idiots then believe Islam preaches violence. I hope that one day you and the Western media will be less ignorant to this fact. Their goal is to cause Islamophobia across the world, and terrorize the world in wars and havoc and create more issues between the West and Islam.

RIP to those who died from these sickening events (not only in Paris, but in Beirut the day before that and across the world). May all those suffering around the world find peace and health, and may all these terrorists rot in Hell.

[spurs10]

Well said. +1 million. Thank you Bill + all the world!

[DrSteffo]

My condolences to all the families torn apart by this atrocity. I hope none of the French posters and fans here were directly harmed. Acts like this are against all humanity no matter where you're from. God bless the victims and the injured.

Exactly this.

[Cry Havoc]

+1

There's a time and a place. This thread, which is a wonderful gesture, is neither the time nor the place.

Prayers for Paris. Just a sickening night.

I was surprisingly emotional at work. Rough day. =\

[DrSteffo]

Islam doesn't preach violence, it preaches peace and love. . This might hold true for most of the preachers but not all and that is a problem. In my home country we have problems with some mosques and preachers because of recruitment to ISIS.

[Fireball]

Good stuff OP

+1

[Manu-of-steel]

My condolences to all the families torn apart by this atrocity. I hope none of the French posters and fans here were directly harmed. Acts like this are against all humanity no matter where you're from. God bless the victims and the injured.

[Fireball]

it was crazy that I could hear the explosions through TV when I watched the soccer game between France and Germany ...

[Mal]

It`s not crazy people, it`s not fanatics. It`s all about Islam, a religion who is killing everybody else. It should be banned in western countries. Japan did this and they have no problems with so called fanatics running with AK`s in their capital.

[Mal]

Islam doesn't preach violence, it preaches peace and love. Don't let these extremists cloud your judgement on a faith of as you said more than 1.6 billion people. How much of a % do these crazy terrorists represent in Islam? Barely anything. They are using the name of Islam to do what they want and idiots then believe Islam preaches violence. I hope that one day you and the Western media will be less ignorant to this fact. Their goal is to cause Islamophobia across the world, and terrorize the world in wars and havoc and create more issues between the West and Islam.

RIP to those who died from these sickening events (not only in Paris, but in Beirut the day before that and across the world). May all those suffering around the world find peace and health, and may all these terrorists rot in Hell.

You are so delusional and because of such thinking innocent people are dying. Islam is the fucking problem, Jihad is the problem, hordes of young mens, who are getting benefits for not doing shit are the problem.

Not every muslim is terrorist, but every terrorist is muslim.

[Horry Hipcheck]

You are so delusional and because of such thinking innocent people are dying. Islam is the fucking problem, Jihad is the problem, hordes of young mens, who are getting benefits for not doing shit are the problem.

Not every muslim is terrorist, but every terrorist is muslim.

Religion is the poison that leads people down these paths. Christianity has plenty of human blood on its hands from the past few millennia, too, and Christian terrorists exist - albeit in smaller, less organized numbers these days. Neither ideology is the solution to the other. Throw in socioeconomic conditions in the parts of the world where Western powers have their influence and it's no surprise this shit keeps happening. The hole just gets deeper all the time.

No god presided over Paris or Beirut today. Each side thinks their messiah is on their team while innocent people are lost in the balance. Horrible attacks like these beget retaliations by Western militaries, and the cycle repeats. Innocent people will be murdered while zealots squabble over which of their deities is real, waiting for the day their gods cleanse the planet of the "wrong people".

My heart goes out to the people in Paris and Beirut. The French are our first ally, and a large reason why we as a nation exist, and I hope we as a people remember that when France needs us in the future. Nothing can replace the lives of the people we lost today, but I hope there comes a day when the barbaric ideas that lead men and women to do this sort of thing cease to exist. Until then, E Pluribus Unum/Vive Le France/Vive la Liberte.

[DrSteffo]

You are so delusional and because of such thinking innocent people are dying. Islam is the fucking problem, Jihad is the problem, hordes of young mens, who are getting benefits for not doing shit are the problem.

Not every muslim is terrorist, but every terrorist is muslim.

Breivik in Norway was a terrorist too tbh. Fundamentalism/extremism is the problem and this certainly exists within Islam.

[From Downtown]

Hope you're all okay

[Mal]

Breivik in Norway was a terrorist too tbh. Fundamentalism/extremism is the problem and this certainly exists within Islam.

Yeah that Breivik guy... That one guy...

Breivik did what he did, but he wasnt drived by religion. Huge diffrence.

[Mal]

Religion is the poison that leads people down these paths. Christianity has plenty of human blood on its hands from the past few millennia, too, and Christian terrorists exist - albeit in smaller, less organized numbers these days. Neither ideology is the solution to the other. Throw in socioeconomic conditions in the parts of the world where Western powers have their influence and it's no surprise this shit keeps happening. The hole just gets deeper all the time.

No god presided over Paris or Beirut today. Each side thinks their messiah is on their team while innocent people are lost in the balance. Horrible attacks like these beget retaliations by Western militaries, and the cycle repeats. Innocent people will be murdered while zealots squabble over which of their deities is real, waiting for the day their gods cleanse the planet of the "wrong people".

My heart goes out to the people in Paris and Beirut. The French are our first ally, and a large reason why we as a nation exist, and I hope we as a people remember that when France needs us in the future. Nothing can replace the lives of the people we lost today, but I hope there comes a day when the barbaric ideas that lead men and women to do this sort of thing cease to exist. Until then, E Pluribus Unum/Vive Le France/Vive la Liberte.

Christians did it like 500 years ago. Muslim did it then, they are doing it now. Yet again. Muslims can do whatever they want to do, in their own countries all sharia shits whatnot. Europe isnt islamic state, mixing cultures when one is not willing to adapt is literally killing people. All those multiculti fans have blood on their hands.

I just saw 'Je suis Charlie' mems. Laughable

[hater]

Wonder if Charlie Hebdo will make fun of this massacre like they made fun of the Russian pass her plane?

[exstatic]

Yeah that Breivik guy... That one guy...

Breivik did what he did, but he wasnt drived by religion. Huge diffrence.

Neither

Are

These

Guys

It's totally against the Islamic religion to burn someone alive, yet ISIS did just that to the Jordanian pilot. They USE religion as a recruiting tool for their violent dreams of conquest, but they are no more religious than David Vitter using call girls and wearing a diaper, or any of the horde of other GOP "Christian" hypocrites.

[boutons_deux]

The west has been fighting them for decades you slow fuck.

You Lie

[cd98]

Lol people blaming religion. Psychopaths are born and will kill or direct others to kill regardless of whether all religions were eliminated. Besides, while a tint of religion is found in these types of Islamic terrorists, it's mostly related to political reasons and revenge or perceived revenge for actions taken by first world powers.

[cd98]

Christians did it like 500 years ago. Muslim did it then, they are doing it now. Yet again. Muslims can do whatever they want to do, in their own countries all sharia shits whatnot. Europe isnt islamic state, mixing cultures when one is not willing to adapt is literally killing people. All those multiculti fans have blood on their hands.

I just saw 'Je suis Charlie' mems. Laughable

Actually the political winds of the people of Europe are becoming more anti-immigrant. Europe has negative population growth. They see the growing Muslim population as a threat to their culture. Their leaders, however, are slow to react. I'm not sure how France will respond. Dropping a few bombs on ISIS won't suffice. But I'd bet the willingness to take in Syrian refugees goes down significantly. Who knows how many refugees are invested with these roaches. And I wonder what Obama will do about Syrian refugees.

[EVAY]

No god presided over Paris or Beirut today. Each side thinks their messiah is on their team while innocent people are lost in the balance. Horrible attacks like these beget retaliations by Western militaries, and the cycle repeats. Innocent people will be murdered while zealots squabble over which of their deities is real, waiting for the day their gods cleanse the planet of the "wrong people".

My heart goes out to the people in Paris and Beirut. The French are our first ally, and a large reason why we as a nation exist, and I hope we as a people remember that when France needs us in the future. Nothing can replace the lives of the people we lost today, but I hope there comes a day when the barbaric ideas that lead men and women to do this sort of thing cease to exist. Until then, E Pluribus Unum/Vive Le France/Vive la Liberte.

Couldn't really agree wholly with your first paragraph so I deleted it.

But the rest was well said. Thank you

[JP le Requin]

As you know i am French.. i live near Paris, on thursday i was with some friends close to Bataclan eating in a argentin/french restaurant.. then we went out to drink and share some freedom...
now when i will go out in paris i will not feel this freedom...
i feel so sad, so upsed, i want to vomit

FUCK ISIS, DAESH EXTREMISTS

FRANCE WILL STAND!!

LIBERTE EGALITE FRATERNITE!!!!!

yes we can live together but some people on earth dont share this...

[Canyonero]

Wonder if Charlie Hebdo will make fun of this massacre like they made fun of the Russian pass her plane?

They will do whatever they can to sell their crappy magazine.

[hater]

Sad thing is seems like NATO will put boots on the ground now and further inflame the hatred and destabilize the region. Thatd what terrorists wanted and NATO is falling for it.

The House of Saud and Israeli government doing high fives and cartrolls as we speak.

[pookenstein]

I was with the german team (I work for their TV-station) and I'm still terrified. Worst thing I had to go through my entire life. Police/security handled things pretty well in the Stadium, but that explosion was horrific.

Hope all the french ST's plus Familie are OK.

[ElNono]

As you know i am French.. i live near Paris, on thursday i was with some friends close to Bataclan eating in a argentin/french restaurant.. then we went out to drink and share some freedom...
now when i will go out in paris i will not feel this freedom...
i feel so sad, so upsed, i want to vomit

FUCK ISIS, DAESH EXTREMISTS

FRANCE WILL STAND!!

LIBERTE EGALITE FRATERNITE!!!!!

yes we can live together but some people on earth dont share this...

Good to hear you're well :tu

[ElNono]

I was with the german team (I work for their TV-station) and I'm still terrified. Worst thing I had to go through my entire life. Police/security handled things pretty well in the Stadium, but that explosion was horrific.

Hope all the french ST's plus Familie are OK.

Good to hear you're doing well, pook :tu

[pookenstein]

Thx Nono.

It was my first time with the team on tour. Subbing in for a colleague who couldn't make the trip. This is some really fucked up shit.

[JP le Requin]

Thanks, i have friends who lost friends :-/

sad world...

[ElNono]

I've been to Paris myself, have family there... it's a beautiful city with beautiful people... nobody deserves any of this.

[Canyonero]

I've been to Paris myself, have family there... it's a beautiful city with beautiful people... nobody deserves any of this.

Agreed, one of the most beautiful cities I was able to visit.

[Venti Quattro]

I was with the german team (I work for their TV-station) and I'm still terrified. Worst thing I had to go through my entire life. Police/security handled things pretty well in the Stadium, but that explosion was horrific.

Hope all the french ST's plus Familie are OK.

DID BAYERN WIN

[Brazil]

Btw I think this is a very thoughtful thread, thanks to ElNono and those who kept the :lol in the nba forum thread.

[Brazil]

A friend of mine told me this morning he lost a brother in the Bataclan massacre.... This world is pretty fucked up right now tbh...

[Mal]

Actually the political winds of the people of Europe are becoming more anti-immigrant. Europe has negative population growth. They see the growing Muslim population as a threat to their culture. Their leaders, however, are slow to react. I'm not sure how France will respond. Dropping a few bombs on ISIS won't suffice. But I'd bet the willingness to take in Syrian refugees goes down significantly. Who knows how many refugees are invested with these roaches. And I wonder what Obama will do about Syrian refugees.

It`s France, they`ve already surrendered

[kaji157]

As much differences as i had during both my stays in france i would like to give French posters a kind support from Argentina in this difficult moment.

It is my wish that everyone who has been affected by this tragedy finds support in their friends, family and colleges and a way to get thru it without going away of the peaceful means.

Hope your life and your families can continue with peace as you move on and remember war is not an option if you want to avoid violence.

Kind regards to any Frenchmen or woman who reads this.

[SPURt]

We humans are the most dominant species on this Earth. It's sad that we have progressed so far technologically but still we must endure such horror at the hands of our own kind. No one is stopping humans from creating a great global society except for humans. So disappointing...

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Undeniable evidence that Islam is the largest threat to civility in the world:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_2015


According to my tally, roughly 99% of the terrorist attacks listed are Muslim-perpetrated, mostly by Sunni groups and Sunni lone wolves.


No sugar coating it folks, Islam is the problem... particularly Sunni Islam.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Christians did it like 500 years ago. Muslim did it then, they are doing it now. Yet again. Muslims can do whatever they want to do, in their own countries all sharia shits whatnot. Europe isnt islamic state, mixing cultures when one is not willing to adapt is literally killing people. All those multiculti fans have blood on their hands.

Agree 110%.

[boutons_deux]

"Islam is the largest threat to civility in the world"

:lol America is and has been widely known to be the greatest threat to world peace.

Repug/neocon objective in invading Iraq for oil was "regime change" in Iraq, Syria, and Iran to establish American hegemony over the OIL region.

ISIS's military competence comes from Saddam's Bathist/Sunni military generals and officers, all fired by the Americans.

America started this shit in the Middle East, and it can't stop it.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

"Islam is the largest threat to civility in the world"

:lol America is and has been widely known to be the greatest threat to world peace.

Repug/neocon objective in invading Iraq for oil was "regime change" in Iraq, Syria, and Iran to establish American hegemony over the OIL region.

ISIS's military competence comes from Saddam's Bathist/Sunni military generals and officers.

America started this shit in the Middle East, and they can't stop it.

You're a fucking moron.

Notice how the Islamic terrorists scream, "Die for trying to take our oil!" in Arabic whenever they massacre people like this.... no; they scream "God is great!".


Blind libtard morons like you will never understand common sense. For you, I recommend drinking a bottle of toilet bowl cleaner to clean out all the shit in your brain. If it kills you, nothing of value will be lost.

[boutons_deux]

Notice how the Islamic terrorists scream, "Die for trying to take our oil!"

no, moron, the Muslims attack in reprisal for 100Ks, Ms?, of Muslims killed, maimed, their homes and villages destroyed, wedding parties and 1000s dead as collateral damage massacred by American bombs, all tied to America fucking around in Middle East, invading Iraq for oil.

[HarlemHeat37]

Hope the families of all the Arabs that were killed in Beirut that have been neglected by the media are doing well, too, tbh, Allah Yarhamun..

[EVAY]

Paris is undoubtedly one of the treasures of the world.

Although it is not my favorite city, it was my late husband's very favorite place on the planet. Never saw him or heard him happier than when he was in Paris or remembering when he was in Paris. Like many Americans, he was not anxious to go there and refused for a long time. But once I got him there the first time (we went back often after that), he was astounded with the beauty, the architecture, and yes, the people of Paris. He fell in love with the place. After the first few weeks, he even tried a few phrases in his midwestern twang accented French.

Don't want to think of Paris not being as free as I have always experienced it being.

[Horry Hipcheck]

Christians did it like 500 years ago. Muslim did it then, they are doing it now. Yet again. Muslims can do whatever they want to do, in their own countries all sharia shits whatnot. Europe isnt islamic state, mixing cultures when one is not willing to adapt is literally killing people. All those multiculti fans have blood on their hands.

I just saw 'Je suis Charlie' mems. Laughable

Christians were doing it in the 1950s, when black people wouldn't cooperate with Jim Crow laws. Christians did it when Dr. King was marching for peaceful equality. Christians do it today, at abortion clinics, at LGBT events. Are their attacks as severe, or as devastating, or as frequent? No. What's been pouring out of Northern Africa and the Middle East are, in sheer numbers, vastly more devastating. The point I was hinting at without really expanding on too deeply is that the core mentality is the same - a group of people, as a subset of a larger ideology that they do not fully represent, get it in their heads that their religion is the Final Solution and must be implemented as law, whether on official law books in state houses or in practice. There are Christians - not nearly the number of militant ones compared to the Taliban, al Qaeda, ISIS, etc. - that want the US operated as a theocracy. They say no, they say it's just about upholding Christian principles, but in reality they're asking for exaltation to federal supremacy under the belief that the United States is a majority Christian and that "life, liberty, pursuit of happiness" is exclusively a Christian idea - which it is not.

Part of the reason militant Christianity isn't as prevalent today as militant Islam is because of differences in the socioeconomic and cultural conditions of the regions of the world where each ideology is dominant. Half a century ago, the Middle East was far more stable and democratic than it is now. Terrorist groups were smaller, weaker, less prevalent. The Golden Age of Islam, wherein Bagdhad was the cultural epicenter of a region leading the world in scientific progress, ended as religious doctrine became favored. This did not itself lead to violence, but rather destroyed the best defense against theocratic influence and religious fanaticism, which is education. The inability of the three Abrahamic religions and the nations that seek to advance their doctrine, including the United States, to come to a peaceful agreement regarding Israel and the Palestinian state is a another instigating factor. The Cold War escalated the West's involvement in controlling territory in that region. The US armed rebels, armies, guerilla groups, you name it, all to either stabilize a government or topple one. United States foreign policy towards Israel is largely influenced by a widely held public belief that because Israel is the prophecized holy land from the Bible, that it's existence is the will of God and those allied with her are to be shepherded into the promised land with her people. The US alliance with Israel and the billions of Western dollars we pour into helping that state defend itself only serves to aggravate those who would uphold Islamic indoctrinization of the region. Throw in how the various states comprising the area were formed out of the Ottoman collapse, and thus are largely devoid of any sort of national identity, and you have a prime breeding ground for militant religious doctrine - people in that part of the world identify as their religion before their nationality, and it's why ISIS has had little trouble operating out of multiple countries. The region collapsed into a state of oerpetual war, exacerbated by Western involvement and increasingly extreme Islam as a response to the efforts of the West. As the region became further destabilized, increased Western intervention was needed, and the problems got worse even as the United States and Western coalitions conducted successful campaigns abroad. Militant Islam grew into what it is now because the region it originates from is wildly unstable, and now that these groups exist and our militaries must intervene, the cycle perpetuates. This is just a hugely simplified analysis of it.

Many more personal take is that religion is toxic, and the teachings of Christopher Hitchens on why it's toxic adequately sum up my beliefs. I just think the present political state of the world contributes to the idea that "their" religion is inherently worse than "our" religion. People divide themselves into us vs. them in times like these, something religion already does for us anyway.


Couldn't really agree wholly with your first paragraph so I deleted it.

But the rest was well said. Thank you

I wanted to conclude my comment with how I felt towards the people of France and a recognition of their nation's contributions to ours. I appreciate your feedback. I know the first paragraph of what I said is more divisive, as I simplified an analytical point of view of the last 50 or so years of world sociopolitical history, and I'm fine with people not agreeing with my assessment of religion's place in all this. Thank you for your response.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

no, moron, the Muslims attack in reprisal for 100Ks, Ms?, of Muslims killed, maimed, their homes and villages destroyed, wedding parties and 1000s dead as collateral damage massacred by American bombs, all tied to America fucking around in Middle East, invading Iraq for oil.
Moron. The Sunni Muslims attack Europe and the West because we are infidels, or kafireen, according to the POS medieval Islamic texts they live by (the Qu'ran and hadiths). The Prophet Muhammad, who Muslims praise five times per day, had an agenda to kill all of those who did not believe in he as the king and Allah as the One God; therefore, Sunni Muslims today seek to carry out Muhammad's final mission of eradicating all non-Muslims, Shia Muslims (including Alawite and Druze), or other Sunni Muslims who do not adhere to the tenets of the present Caliph (and Muhammad himself).

[Slomo]

UNT, Mal and Bouton
Take your stupid and immature posts to the political forum. if in light of what happened in Paris and Beirut the only thing you can do is argue in an offensive and quite uneducated way it has no place in this thread.

Fair warning

[hater]

Thoughts and prayers for the Kurdish victims of the Turkey bombing as well tbh. Didn't see a thread on that either

[hater]

Also didn't see a Russian spurs fans thread. Thoughts and prayers for the Russian victims :(

[NASpurs]

US/UK/BigOil invaded Iraq for oil and then to regime change also Syria and Iran, too. ISIS arose DIRECTLY from the Repug-destabilized Middle East.

You motherfuckers are hilariously gullible, stupid, ignorant.

You're going to get banned :lol

[RD2191]

US/UK/BigOil invaded Iraq for oil and then to regime change also Syria and Iran, too. ISIS arose DIRECTLY from the Repug-destabilized Middle East.

You motherfuckers are hilariously gullible, stupid, ignorant.

For once, I agree with you.

[ajh18]

US/UK/BigOil invaded Iraq for oil and then to regime change also Syria and Iran, too. ISIS arose DIRECTLY from the Repug-destabilized Middle East.

You motherfuckers are hilariously gullible, stupid, ignorant.

Can you not see this???


UNT, Mal and Bouton
Take your stupid and immature posts to the political forum. if in light of what happened in Paris and Beirut the only thing you can do is argue in an offensive and quite uneducated way it has no place in this thread.

Fair warning

A thread devoted to mourning the tragedy and expressing support for each other and the victims of this horrible event is NOT a place to air your personal agendas... whatever they are.

There's a time for debate. This isn't it. Calling each other morons is selfish, petty, and not worthy of the intentions behind this thread.

[RD2191]

Christians were doing it in the 1950s, when black people wouldn't cooperate with Jim Crow laws. Christians did it when Dr. King was marching for peaceful equality. Christians do it today, at abortion clinics, at LGBT events. Are their attacks as severe, or as devastating, or as frequent? No. What's been pouring out of Northern Africa and the Middle East are, in sheer numbers, vastly more devastating. The point I was hinting at without really expanding on too deeply is that the core mentality is the same - a group of people, as a subset of a larger ideology that they do not fully represent, get it in their heads that their religion is the Final Solution and must be implemented as law, whether on official law books in state houses or in practice. There are Christians - not nearly the number of militant ones compared to the Taliban, al Qaeda, ISIS, etc. - that want the US operated as a theocracy. They say no, they say it's just about upholding Christian principles, but in reality they're asking for exaltation to federal supremacy under the belief that the United States is a majority Christian and that "life, liberty, pursuit of happiness" is exclusively a Christian idea - which it is not.

Part of the reason militant Christianity isn't as prevalent today as militant Islam is because of differences in the socioeconomic and cultural conditions of the regions of the world where each ideology is dominant. Half a century ago, the Middle East was far more stable and democratic than it is now. Terrorist groups were smaller, weaker, less prevalent. The Golden Age of Islam, wherein Bagdhad was the cultural epicenter of a region leading the world in scientific progress, ended as religious doctrine became favored. This did not itself lead to violence, but rather destroyed the best defense against theocratic influence and religious fanaticism, which is education. The inability of the three Abrahamic religions and the nations that seek to advance their doctrine, including the United States, to come to a peaceful agreement regarding Israel and the Palestinian state is a another instigating factor. The Cold War escalated the West's involvement in controlling territory in that region. The US armed rebels, armies, guerilla groups, you name it, all to either stabilize a government or topple one. United States foreign policy towards Israel is largely influenced by a widely held public belief that because Israel is the prophecized holy land from the Bible, that it's existence is the will of God and those allied with her are to be shepherded into the promised land with her people. The US alliance with Israel and the billions of Western dollars we pour into helping that state defend itself only serves to aggravate those who would uphold Islamic indoctrinization of the region. Throw in how the various states comprising the area were formed out of the Ottoman collapse, and thus are largely devoid of any sort of national identity, and you have a prime breeding ground for militant religious doctrine - people in that part of the world identify as their religion before their nationality, and it's why ISIS has had little trouble operating out of multiple countries. The region collapsed into a state of oerpetual war, exacerbated by Western involvement and increasingly extreme Islam as a response to the efforts of the West. As the region became further destabilized, increased Western intervention was needed, and the problems got worse even as the United States and Western coalitions conducted successful campaigns abroad. Militant Islam grew into what it is now because the region it originates from is wildly unstable, and now that these groups exist and our militaries must intervene, the cycle perpetuates. This is just a hugely simplified analysis of it.

Many more personal take is that religion is toxic, and the teachings of Christopher Hitchens on why it's toxic adequately sum up my beliefs. I just think the present political state of the world contributes to the idea that "their" religion is inherently worse than "our" religion. People divide themselves into us vs. them in times like these, something religion already does for us anyway.



I wanted to conclude my comment with how I felt towards the people of France and a recognition of their nation's contributions to ours. I appreciate your feedback. I know the first paragraph of what I said is more divisive, as I simplified an analytical point of view of the last 50 or so years of world sociopolitical history, and I'm fine with people not agreeing with my assessment of religion's place in all this. Thank you for your response.

What religion did Pol Pot practice? What about Stalin? Mao Zedong?

[NASpurs]

You stupid niggas were already warned by Slomo and keep going :lol

[ChumpDumper]

You stupid niggas were already warned by Slomo and keep going :lolThey'll be sh:wowcked when they are banned too.

[TXstbobcat]

Classy move by Sprint. Sprint is waiving all fees and charges on calls to and from France for their customers.

[HI-FI]

thoughts and prayers to those affected.

Thoughts and prayers for the Kurdish victims of the Turkey bombing as well tbh. Didn't see a thread on that either
good point as well.

[Horry Hipcheck]

What religion did Pol Pot practice? What about Stalin? Mao Zedong?

I never said religion is the only source of the evil men commit against their fellow man. I'm no stranger to history's most heinous murderers, some vastly more powerful than others. If you're going to count bodies killed by non-religious figures against religious ones to defend your God, you may wish to reconsider. Simple truth of Abrahamic religions is that the endgame of each one of them is Final Judgment, in which their deity cleanses the planet of human life and casts nonbelievers into eternal damnation, which is - in my personal, minority opinion - barbaric and evil. Religion and morality are mutually exclusive and I feel for those who think they need the former to give them the latter, and alternatively those who believe atrocities committed by men with no religion and no morals (Stalin, Mao) are further proof of this. Correlation does not imply causation and therefore, while I find religion to be antiquated, inconsistent, barbaric, and degrading, I also do not subscribe to the belief that it is the source of all evils in the world. I do, however, recognize the sociopolitical and cultural reasons for the current state of religious extremism, and understand that militant Islam is centered largely around a core belief that is not shared by the rest of the Muslim world, which is that Islam and the West are destined to be at odds with one another and that Islam is destined to win the resulting war that ISIS is actively trying to goad the West into.

[Robz4000]

Good work Slomo imvho

[EVAY]

Classy move by Sprint. Sprint is waiving all fees and charges on calls to and from France for their customers.

:tu

[-21-]

Thoughts and prayers to those affected not just in Paris but in the other places attacked as well. I don't understand why people would do this... I just don't.

[Brazil]

Thoughts and prayers for the Kurdish victims of the Turkey bombing as well tbh. Didn't see a thread on that either

You absolutey right like the massacre in Nigeria... Wish all this madness could stop...

[spurraider21]

Thoughts and prayers for the Kurdish victims of the Turkey bombing as well tbh. Didn't see a thread on that either
the world always ignores Turkish crimes against humanity, nothing to see here

[Kikoluna]

Terrible what's happening every day it seems.

[jeebus]

Je Suis lefty

[exstatic]

UNT, Mal and Bouton
Take your stupid and immature posts to the political forum. if in light of what happened in Paris and Beirut the only thing you can do is argue in an offensive and quite uneducated way it has no place in this thread.

Fair warning

THANK YOU

[Macca76]

It`s France, they`ve already surrendered

Good timing to express your ideas, piece of shit

[midnightpulp]

Christians were doing it in the 1950s, when black people wouldn't cooperate with Jim Crow laws. Christians did it when Dr. King was marching for peaceful equality. Christians do it today, at abortion clinics, at LGBT events. Are their attacks as severe, or as devastating, or as frequent? No. What's been pouring out of Northern Africa and the Middle East are, in sheer numbers, vastly more devastating. The point I was hinting at without really expanding on too deeply is that the core mentality is the same - a group of people, as a subset of a larger ideology that they do not fully represent, get it in their heads that their religion is the Final Solution and must be implemented as law, whether on official law books in state houses or in practice. There are Christians - not nearly the number of militant ones compared to the Taliban, al Qaeda, ISIS, etc. - that want the US operated as a theocracy. They say no, they say it's just about upholding Christian principles, but in reality they're asking for exaltation to federal supremacy under the belief that the United States is a majority Christian and that "life, liberty, pursuit of happiness" is exclusively a Christian idea - which it is not.

Part of the reason militant Christianity isn't as prevalent today as militant Islam is because of differences in the socioeconomic and cultural conditions of the regions of the world where each ideology is dominant. Half a century ago, the Middle East was far more stable and democratic than it is now. Terrorist groups were smaller, weaker, less prevalent. The Golden Age of Islam, wherein Bagdhad was the cultural epicenter of a region leading the world in scientific progress, ended as religious doctrine became favored. This did not itself lead to violence, but rather destroyed the best defense against theocratic influence and religious fanaticism, which is education. The inability of the three Abrahamic religions and the nations that seek to advance their doctrine, including the United States, to come to a peaceful agreement regarding Israel and the Palestinian state is a another instigating factor. The Cold War escalated the West's involvement in controlling territory in that region. The US armed rebels, armies, guerilla groups, you name it, all to either stabilize a government or topple one. United States foreign policy towards Israel is largely influenced by a widely held public belief that because Israel is the prophecized holy land from the Bible, that it's existence is the will of God and those allied with her are to be shepherded into the promised land with her people. The US alliance with Israel and the billions of Western dollars we pour into helping that state defend itself only serves to aggravate those who would uphold Islamic indoctrinization of the region. Throw in how the various states comprising the area were formed out of the Ottoman collapse, and thus are largely devoid of any sort of national identity, and you have a prime breeding ground for militant religious doctrine - people in that part of the world identify as their religion before their nationality, and it's why ISIS has had little trouble operating out of multiple countries. The region collapsed into a state of oerpetual war, exacerbated by Western involvement and increasingly extreme Islam as a response to the efforts of the West. As the region became further destabilized, increased Western intervention was needed, and the problems got worse even as the United States and Western coalitions conducted successful campaigns abroad. Militant Islam grew into what it is now because the region it originates from is wildly unstable, and now that these groups exist and our militaries must intervene, the cycle perpetuates. This is just a hugely simplified analysis of it.

Many more personal take is that religion is toxic, and the teachings of Christopher Hitchens on why it's toxic adequately sum up my beliefs. I just think the present political state of the world contributes to the idea that "their" religion is inherently worse than "our" religion. People divide themselves into us vs. them in times like these, something religion already does for us anyway.



I wanted to conclude my comment with how I felt towards the people of France and a recognition of their nation's contributions to ours. I appreciate your feedback. I know the first paragraph of what I said is more divisive, as I simplified an analytical point of view of the last 50 or so years of world sociopolitical history, and I'm fine with people not agreeing with my assessment of religion's place in all this. Thank you for your response.

I won't address your comments on the Israel situation, because your thoughts there are speculative at best and reek of conspiracy theory at worst.

That said, Hitchens, Dawkins, and that whole New Atheist movement are polemical hacks, with opinions that any historians or (secular) theologians worth their weight would laugh at. They turn religion and belief into a crude caricature like the best propagandists have turned "the other" into a crude caricature in order to dehumanize. For a movement that preaches rationality and skepticism, they give into emotional kneejerking all too often, most likely willingly to rouse their constituents. You might think I'm defending religion because I'm a believer, but I'm not. Simply put no historian would agree that religion is the "most toxic" of human institutions. It's not even close to being a fact, which the supposed "fact" and "truth" lovers of the New Atheist movement should know. But that wouldn't be good for selling books, would it?

This is one of the most comprehensive examinations of war throughout history and the authors concluded that only about 7 percent of all wars had a religious component:


In their recently published book, "Encyclopedia of Wars," authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod document the history of recorded warfare, and from their list of 1763 wars only 123 have been classified to involve a religious cause, accounting for less than 7 percent of all wars and less than 2 percent of all people ...


http://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Wars-Volume-Library-History/dp/0816028516

And about that religion being antagonistic to science "fact?" Another myth.


One of the occupational hazards of being an atheist and secular humanist who hangs around on discussion boards is to encounter a staggering level of historical illiteracy. I like to console myself that many of the people on such boards have come to their atheism via the study of science and so, even if they are quite learned in things like geology and biology, usually have a grasp of history stunted at about high school level. I generally do this because the alternative is to admit that the average person's grasp of history and how history is studied is so utterly feeble as to be totally depressing.

http://www.strangenotions.com/gods-philosophers/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_Catholic_cleric-scientists

And of course we know that Christian monks were responsible for saving all the books they could (irrespective of source) as Barbarians hordes ransacked and burnt their way through Rome.

http://www.metanexus.net/essay/medieval-monasticism-preserver-western-civilization

Religion also acted a a civilization force during that period:


As Christopher Dawson aptly writes: “The Church had to undertake the task of introducing the law of the Gospel and the ethics of the Sermon on the Mount among peoples who regarded homicide as the most honorable occupation and vengeance as synonymous with justice.”

Have bad, very bad things, been done in the name of religion? Of course. But in advanced basketball stat speak, religion has been a "net positive" to humanity overall. In reality, religion has actually amplified many of our innate traits of compassion, empathy, charity, love, and even desire for knowledge. More good things have been done in its "name" than vice versa.

The real problem is the human tendency toward tribal supremacy and the need for certainty in an indifferent universe. "Our" economic system is more truthful and morally superior to "yours." "Our" political ideology is more truthful and morally superior to "yours." "Our" race is more worthy of life and this land than "yours." Even the morally neutral science isn't free from human misinterpretation in this case. How many eugenic programs and forced sterilization programs were done by "scientists" who misread Darwin? How about the Nazis taking Nietzsche's Overman concept literally and actually trying to create an Overman through racial purification? Hell, this tribal supremacy behavior is even on display at sporting events, when rival fans kill and beat each other (soccer hooliganism, stabbings in parking lots, etc).

Are science, philosophy, economics, and politics systems "toxic?"

No. Unfortunately, there's toxic people out there who will use these institutions and ideas in a toxic way for personal gain and power.

This quote sums it up nicely:


We are unlike our animal kin in another way. Only human beings kill and die for the sake of beliefs about themselves and the nature of the world. Looking for sense in their lives, they attack others who find meaning in beliefs different from their own. The violence of faith cannot be exorcised by demonizing religion. It goes with being human.

https://newrepublic.com/article/119698/religion-not-blame-all-bloodiest-wars

However, I'm not a cynic nor a pessimist. All of these institutions have been a "net positive" on humanity over all. If they didn't "work," we would've killed ourselves off long ago (you can say it got tense during the Cold War, but human goodness won out) and/or not gotten much further than caveman status in cultural progress. And statistically speaking, this is actually the most peaceful time in human history.

[RD2191]

I won't address your comments on the Israel situation, because your thoughts there are speculative at best and reek of conspiracy theory at worst.

That said, Hitchens, Dawkins, and that whole New Atheist movement are polemical hacks, with opinions that any historians or (secular) theologians worth their weight would laugh at. They turn religion and belief into a crude caricature like the best propagandists have turned "the other" into a crude caricature in order to dehumanize. For a movement that preaches rationality and skepticism, they give into emotional kneejerking all too often, most likely willingly to rouse their constituents. You might think I'm defending religion because I'm a believer, but I'm not. Simply put no historian would agree that religion is the "most toxic" of human institutions. It's not even close to being a fact, which the supposed "fact" and "truth" lovers of the New Atheist movement should know. But that wouldn't be good for selling books, would it?

This is one of the most comprehensive examinations of war throughout history and the authors concluded that only about 7 percent of all wars had a religious component:





And about that religion being antagonistic to science "fact?" Another myth.



http://www.strangenotions.com/gods-philosophers/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_Catholic_cleric-scientists

And of course we know that Christian monks were responsible for saving all the books they could (irrespective of source) as Barbarians hordes ransacked and burnt their way through Rome.

http://www.metanexus.net/essay/medieval-monasticism-preserver-western-civilization

Religion also acted a a civilization force during that period:



Have bad, very bad things, been done in the name of religion? Of course. But in advanced basketball stat speak, religion has been a "net positive" to humanity overall. In reality, religion has actually amplified many of our innate traits of compassion, empathy, charity, love, and even desire for knowledge. More good things have been done in its "name" than vice versa.

The real problem is the human tendency toward tribal supremacy and the need for certainty in an indifferent universe. "Our" economic system is more truthful and morally superior to "yours." "Our" political ideology is more truthful and morally superior to "yours." "Our" race is more worthy of life and this land than "yours." Even the morally neutral science isn't free from human misinterpretation in this case. How many eugenic programs and forced sterilization programs were done by "scientists" who misread Darwin? How about the Nazis taking Nietzsche's Overman concept literally and actually trying to create an Overman through racial purification? Hell, this tribal supremacy behavior is even on display at sporting events, when rival fans kill and beat each other (soccer hooliganism, stabbings in parking lots, etc).

Are science, philosophy, economics, and politics systems "toxic?"

No. Unfortunately, there's toxic people out there who will use these institutions and ideas in a toxic way for personal gain and power.

This quote sums it up nicely:



https://newrepublic.com/article/119698/religion-not-blame-all-bloodiest-wars

However, I'm not a cynic nor a pessimist. All of these institutions have been a "net positive" on humanity over all. If they didn't "work," we would've killed ourselves off long ago (you can say it got tense during the Cold War, but human goodness won out) and/or not gotten much further than caveman status in cultural progress. And statistically speaking, this is actually the most peaceful time in human history.

:bobo

[Horry Hipcheck]

I won't address your comments on the Israel situation, because your thoughts there are speculative at best and reek of conspiracy theory at worst.

That said, Hitchens, Dawkins, and that whole New Atheist movement are polemical hacks, with opinions that any historians or (secular) theologians worth their weight would laugh at. They turn religion and belief into a crude caricature like the best propagandists have turned "the other" into a crude caricature in order to dehumanize. For a movement that preaches rationality and skepticism, they give into emotional kneejerking all too often, most likely willingly to rouse their constituents. You might think I'm defending religion because I'm a believer, but I'm not. Simply put no historian would agree that religion is the "most toxic" of human institutions. It's not even close to being a fact, which the supposed "fact" and "truth" lovers of the New Atheist movement should know. But that wouldn't be good for selling books, would it?

This is one of the most comprehensive examinations of war throughout history and the authors concluded that only about 7 percent of all wars had a religious component:





And about that religion being antagonistic to science "fact?" Another myth.



http://www.strangenotions.com/gods-philosophers/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_Catholic_cleric-scientists

And of course we know that Christian monks were responsible for saving all the books they could (irrespective of source) as Barbarians hordes ransacked and burnt their way through Rome.

http://www.metanexus.net/essay/medieval-monasticism-preserver-western-civilization

Religion also acted a a civilization force during that period:



Have bad, very bad things, been done in the name of religion? Of course. But in advanced basketball stat speak, religion has been a "net positive" to humanity overall. In reality, religion has actually amplified many of our innate traits of compassion, empathy, charity, love, and even desire for knowledge. More good things have been done in its "name" than vice versa.

The real problem is the human tendency toward tribal supremacy and the need for certainty in an indifferent universe. "Our" economic system is more truthful and morally superior to "yours." "Our" political ideology is more truthful and morally superior to "yours." "Our" race is more worthy of life and this land than "yours." Even the morally neutral science isn't free from human misinterpretation in this case. How many eugenic programs and forced sterilization programs were done by "scientists" who misread Darwin? How about the Nazis taking Nietzsche's Overman concept literally and actually trying to create an Overman through racial purification? Hell, this tribal supremacy behavior is even on display at sporting events, when rival fans kill and beat each other (soccer hooliganism, stabbings in parking lots, etc).

Are science, philosophy, economics, and politics systems "toxic?"

No. Unfortunately, there's toxic people out there who will use these institutions and ideas in a toxic way for personal gain and power.

This quote sums it up nicely:



https://newrepublic.com/article/119698/religion-not-blame-all-bloodiest-wars

However, I'm not a cynic nor a pessimist. All of these institutions have been a "net positive" on humanity over all. If they didn't "work," we would've killed ourselves off long ago (you can say it got tense during the Cold War, but human goodness won out) and/or not gotten much further than caveman status in cultural progress. And statistically speaking, this is actually the most peaceful time in human history.

Well put across the board.

[moisaenz]

Survival of the fittest ,doesn't matter

[Lady M]

live and work near Stade de France in Saint Denis (3 suicides bombs) but not in Paris this WE.
Monday will be strange

[EVAY]

live and work near Stade de France in Saint Denis (3 suicides bombs) but not in Paris this WE.
Monday will be strange

Stay safe.

[TDfan2007]

I won't address your comments on the Israel situation, because your thoughts there are speculative at best and reek of conspiracy theory at worst.

That said, Hitchens, Dawkins, and that whole New Atheist movement are polemical hacks, with opinions that any historians or (secular) theologians worth their weight would laugh at. They turn religion and belief into a crude caricature like the best propagandists have turned "the other" into a crude caricature in order to dehumanize. For a movement that preaches rationality and skepticism, they give into emotional kneejerking all too often, most likely willingly to rouse their constituents. You might think I'm defending religion because I'm a believer, but I'm not. Simply put no historian would agree that religion is the "most toxic" of human institutions. It's not even close to being a fact, which the supposed "fact" and "truth" lovers of the New Atheist movement should know. But that wouldn't be good for selling books, would it?

This is one of the most comprehensive examinations of war throughout history and the authors concluded that only about 7 percent of all wars had a religious component:





And about that religion being antagonistic to science "fact?" Another myth.



http://www.strangenotions.com/gods-philosophers/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_Catholic_cleric-scientists

And of course we know that Christian monks were responsible for saving all the books they could (irrespective of source) as Barbarians hordes ransacked and burnt their way through Rome.

http://www.metanexus.net/essay/medieval-monasticism-preserver-western-civilization

Religion also acted a a civilization force during that period:



Have bad, very bad things, been done in the name of religion? Of course. But in advanced basketball stat speak, religion has been a "net positive" to humanity overall. In reality, religion has actually amplified many of our innate traits of compassion, empathy, charity, love, and even desire for knowledge. More good things have been done in its "name" than vice versa.

The real problem is the human tendency toward tribal supremacy and the need for certainty in an indifferent universe. "Our" economic system is more truthful and morally superior to "yours." "Our" political ideology is more truthful and morally superior to "yours." "Our" race is more worthy of life and this land than "yours." Even the morally neutral science isn't free from human misinterpretation in this case. How many eugenic programs and forced sterilization programs were done by "scientists" who misread Darwin? How about the Nazis taking Nietzsche's Overman concept literally and actually trying to create an Overman through racial purification? Hell, this tribal supremacy behavior is even on display at sporting events, when rival fans kill and beat each other (soccer hooliganism, stabbings in parking lots, etc).

Are science, philosophy, economics, and politics systems "toxic?"

No. Unfortunately, there's toxic people out there who will use these institutions and ideas in a toxic way for personal gain and power.

This quote sums it up nicely:



https://newrepublic.com/article/119698/religion-not-blame-all-bloodiest-wars

However, I'm not a cynic nor a pessimist. All of these institutions have been a "net positive" on humanity over all. If they didn't "work," we would've killed ourselves off long ago (you can say it got tense during the Cold War, but human goodness won out) and/or not gotten much further than caveman status in cultural progress. And statistically speaking, this is actually the most peaceful time in human history.


http://media.giphy.com/media/ZU9QbQtuI4Xcc/giphy.gif

Nice to see that your solid basketball writing translates to other topics. Great post. I'm not religious, but to demonize faith in these situations is not fair. In the absence of religion, it's highly likely that humans would just find another avenue to attach our faction-creating ways onto for all of the reasons that you just pointed out.

[Pauleta14]

As you know i am French.. i live near Paris, on thursday i was with some friends close to Bataclan eating in a argentin/french restaurant.. then we went out to drink and share some freedom...
now when i will go out in paris i will not feel this freedom...
i feel so sad, so upsed, i want to vomit

FUCK ISIS, DAESH EXTREMISTS

FRANCE WILL STAND!!

LIBERTE EGALITE FRATERNITE!!!!!

yes we can live together but some people on earth dont share this...

Don't say that bro!

I was born and raised in Paris, even if I live in London right now, all the friends and family that I had on the phone/skype since the events are angry, shocked, but almost all don't want to change a thing and keep living the way they used to...

If we change, they win!

Paris will always be Paris my friend (even if the fucking rents are insane now!), you'll see next time you come!


Ô Ville Lumière
Sens la chaleur
De notre cœur
Vois-tu notre ferveur

Quand nous marchons près de toi
Dans cette quête, chasser l'ennemi
Enfin pour que nos couleurs
Brillent encore

[DMC]

I won't address your comments on the Israel situation, because your thoughts there are speculative at best and reek of conspiracy theory at worst.

That said, Hitchens, Dawkins, and that whole New Atheist movement are polemical hacks, with opinions that any historians or (secular) theologians worth their weight would laugh at. They turn religion and belief into a crude caricature like the best propagandists have turned "the other" into a crude caricature in order to dehumanize. For a movement that preaches rationality and skepticism, they give into emotional kneejerking all too often, most likely willingly to rouse their constituents. You might think I'm defending religion because I'm a believer, but I'm not. Simply put no historian would agree that religion is the "most toxic" of human institutions. It's not even close to being a fact, which the supposed "fact" and "truth" lovers of the New Atheist movement should know. But that wouldn't be good for selling books, would it?

This is one of the most comprehensive examinations of war throughout history and the authors concluded that only about 7 percent of all wars had a religious component:





And about that religion being antagonistic to science "fact?" Another myth.



http://www.strangenotions.com/gods-philosophers/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_Catholic_cleric-scientists

And of course we know that Christian monks were responsible for saving all the books they could (irrespective of source) as Barbarians hordes ransacked and burnt their way through Rome.

http://www.metanexus.net/essay/medieval-monasticism-preserver-western-civilization

Religion also acted a a civilization force during that period:



Have bad, very bad things, been done in the name of religion? Of course. But in advanced basketball stat speak, religion has been a "net positive" to humanity overall. In reality, religion has actually amplified many of our innate traits of compassion, empathy, charity, love, and even desire for knowledge. More good things have been done in its "name" than vice versa.

The real problem is the human tendency toward tribal supremacy and the need for certainty in an indifferent universe. "Our" economic system is more truthful and morally superior to "yours." "Our" political ideology is more truthful and morally superior to "yours." "Our" race is more worthy of life and this land than "yours." Even the morally neutral science isn't free from human misinterpretation in this case. How many eugenic programs and forced sterilization programs were done by "scientists" who misread Darwin? How about the Nazis taking Nietzsche's Overman concept literally and actually trying to create an Overman through racial purification? Hell, this tribal supremacy behavior is even on display at sporting events, when rival fans kill and beat each other (soccer hooliganism, stabbings in parking lots, etc).

Are science, philosophy, economics, and politics systems "toxic?"

No. Unfortunately, there's toxic people out there who will use these institutions and ideas in a toxic way for personal gain and power.

This quote sums it up nicely:



https://newrepublic.com/article/119698/religion-not-blame-all-bloodiest-wars

However, I'm not a cynic nor a pessimist. All of these institutions have been a "net positive" on humanity over all. If they didn't "work," we would've killed ourselves off long ago (you can say it got tense during the Cold War, but human goodness won out) and/or not gotten much further than caveman status in cultural progress. And statistically speaking, this is actually the most peaceful time in human history.

lol no.

Murder works, else we'd all be dead.

War works, else we'd all be dead.

Anything works, else we'd all be dead.

That's a shitty argument since it doesn't allow anything to not work because here we are.

What does "work" even mean here? Does the displacement of reason by faith work for you? It doesn't work for me.

Also, lol at "secular theologian". That's a bit of an oxymoron.

So which end times religion is being misused? Christians are looking for the apocalypse, Muslims for the caliphate. Each of these is doing what they think they need to do in order to hurry it along.

You know an institution is flawed severely when practicing its tenets fundamentally means you are crazy as fuck. No one says "Tim Duncan has very good fundamentals, but that's extreme so it's bad... he needs to dismiss most of what he knows to be true and just latch on to the newest trends".

God is now a pinterest item for most Western theists.

[midnightpulp]

lol no.

Murder works, else we'd all be dead.

War works, else we'd all be dead.

Anything works, else we'd all be dead.

That's a shitty argument since it doesn't allow anything to not work because here we are.

What does "work" even mean here? Does the displacement of reason by faith work for you? It doesn't work for me.

Also, lol at "secular theologian". That's a bit of an oxymoron.

So which end times religion is being misused? Christians are looking for the apocalypse, Muslims for the caliphate. Each of these is doing what they think they need to do in order to hurry it along.

You know an institution is flawed severely when practicing its tenets fundamentally means you are crazy as fuck. No one says "Tim Duncan has very good fundamentals, but that's extreme so it's bad... he needs to dismiss most of what he knows to be true and just latch on to the newest trends".

God is now a pinterest item for most Western theists.

How can "reason" exist if no absolute truth exists (keep in mind I'm speaking of truth, not facts)? "Rationality" and "reason" are just as arbitrary as religion with regard to morality since, as Hume taught us, you cannot derive an ought from an is. There's no absolute truth to morally anchor ourselves to, so how can you truly build a rational moral foundation? Even that hack Sam Harris realizes this conundrum and wrote an awful book (which was destroyed in review by philosophers who actually know what they're doing) trying to reconcile science with morality.

In the pragmatic sense, religion and faith are a perfectly rational response to the seemingly senseless and purposeless state of the universe and reality at large. There are many facets of the human condition that science and "reason" can never, ever make sense of nor "satisfy" existentially. You'll likely say, "They need to stop being so weak minded and face that cruel "truth" head on, like us enlightened atheists do." If that's your feeling, then who is the irrational and dogmatic one in this case?

And what's all this talk about eschatology? Which Christian leaders are launching nuclear weapons in an effort to bring about Armageddon and thus the Final Judgement? I don't see the Saudis, who are in love with their soccer, exotic cars, and lavish lifestyles, planning or doing any such thing? Hell, the Cold War was the perfect setting for an Apocalypse. The Christian West vs. The Atheist Soviet Union and their allies. I didn't see a Catholic JFK launching anything toward Moscow. It's always the fringe, and to generalize a whole from a very, very, tiny part is an irrational move.

God even explicitly commands not to kill with Jesus commanding to, "Love Thy Enemy." So if Christians defy those laws, it's not religion's fault, it's human fault.

And if religion "dies out," it'll just be replaced by an ideology that "appeals to science" and purports itself to be rational. Again, look how many evil deeds were done by "scientists" trying to "improve" the human race through eugenic programs. And that mindset still persists very strongly to this day.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Race_realism

Don't mistake me for demonizing science. Point is, ANYTHING can be turned into an ideology, because like I said, we unfortunately have this innate need to feel superior to the "other." Germany has long been a center of scientific and philosophical innovation, and look how easily their populace was duped since Hitler and Co. knew how to emotionally manipulate the populace by appealing to race.

When I said "works," I was referring to examples of institutions like science, religion, culture prompting human flourishing. "War" and "murder" are also not created equal, since there are such things as a just war (not in the religious sense, but for self defense/fighting evil) and justifiable homicide. Aside from that, though, I would argue that war and murder do not "work," since the logical conclusion of both is extinction or at the very least living in a world that is extremely harsh and unpleasant (though, that is relative, since there are no doubt a segment of people intrigued by a might makes right world).

[midnightpulp]

http://media.giphy.com/media/ZU9QbQtuI4Xcc/giphy.gif

Nice to see that your solid basketball writing translates to other topics. Great post. I'm not religious, but to demonize faith in these situations is not fair. In the absence of religion, it's highly likely that humans would just find another avenue to attach our faction-creating ways onto for all of the reasons that you just pointed out.

No doubt. Even the utopic driven, egalitarian ideal of communism was twisted and misinterpreted to the point where Communists leaders killed over 100 million people in its "name."

And I could see the hard green, anarcho-primitivism, and racial realism movements becoming big problems in the future, especially with how fast information travels.

[JP le Requin]

Don't say that bro!

I was born and raised in Paris, even if I live in London right now, all the friends and family that I had on the phone/skype since the events are angry, shocked, but almost all don't want to change a thing and keep living the way they used to...

If we change, they win!

Paris will always be Paris my friend (even if the fucking rents are insane now!), you'll see next time you come!


Ô Ville Lumière
Sens la chaleur
De notre cœur
Vois-tu notre ferveur

Quand nous marchons près de toi
Dans cette quête, chasser l'ennemi
Enfin pour que nos couleurs
Brillent encore



i think you are right.. i hope it so much..
la veille des attentats j'étais dans le quartier de bastille avec des amis manger au santa carne puis on a brun verre 3 rues plus loin ...mais 3 rues plus proche de la rue de charonne... et jamais pendant la soirée j'imaginais qu'un attentat surviendrait.. on était bien entre potes.. et le lendemain... :-/

[hater]

No doubt. Even the utopic driven, egalitarian ideal of communism was twisted and misinterpreted to the point where Communists leaders killed over 100 million people in its "name."

And I could see the hard green, anarcho-primitivism, and racial realism movements becoming big problems in the future, especially with how fast information travels.

Millions more people were killed in the name of Capitalism tbh

US spread murder all over the globe for their capitalistic ideals. Hell they even bombed Panama City with the excuse that they were out to get ONE guy suspects of drug trafficking. YES they actually performed a military bombing of a city and expected ppl to believe that excuse.at least 2,500 Panamanians were killed in that one alone.

Fully agree that religion is far behind other reasons why humans kill. Capitalism is atop the list

[hater]

I hope the poor French ppl realize one day that their government is highly responsible for these attacks. They spearheaded the Libya bombing that took out Ghadaffi. That void basically created ISIS and a lot of militants and weapons made their way to Syria from Lybia.

And the French government and Hollande were cheerleading the same thing in Syria, working on toppling Assad while arming the jihadists.

Of course the government will never accept any blame. Lets hope the poor civilian French will wake up.

[JP le Requin]

I hope the poor French ppl realize one day that their government is highly responsible for these attacks. They spearheaded the Libya bombing that took out Ghadaffi. That void basically created ISIS and a lot of militants and weapons made their way to Syria from Lybia.

And the French government and Hollande were cheerleading the same thing in Syria, working on toppling Assad while arming the jihadists.

Of course the government will never accept any blame. Lets hope the poor civilian French will wake up.

every country who has a car which work with oïl is to blame..and yes, USA, FRANCE, ENGLAND, RUSSIA, CHINA, sell weapons ...world really sucks now every one is to blame.. no more you than me
we need another REAL révolution around the world, and not letting money/oil direct our way of life.

[JP le Requin]

BUT, i really think we have people in mid orient, who wants to live like in middle age and have their "muslim" world, i mean their own vison of the coran who is not the same as REAL muslim are..

[hater]

every country who has a car which work with oïl is to blame..and yes, USA, FRANCE, ENGLAND, RUSSIA, CHINA, sell weapons ...world really sucks now every one is to blame.. no more you than me
we need another REAL révolution around the world, and not letting money/oil direct our way of life.

No. US/France/UK are DIRECTLY responsible for this mess and the subsequent attacks. France spearheaded the Libya mission to topple Ghaddafi. Was France ever attacked by Ghadaffi??? No. They decided to go ahead and topple him for imperial/economic reasons.

Ghadaffi himself warned them: "I am the only thing standing between Europe and the Barbarian Hordes"

But they still went ahead and took him out, and the barbarians came. And the fucked up thing is that even after that failure, they were doing the same thing in Syria. oh the French government is directly responsible, but the French ppl sadly are asleep on this issue.

The French government and media are quick to put 100% of the blame on a bunch of camel fuckers running around the desert.

[hater]

This is what Gaddafi said as French bombs were being dropped in Tripoli:
“if I go down, Europe goes black.”Now, without Gaddafi fighting to stop of the flow of illegals, the greatest tidal wave of illegal aliens of all time is at Europe’s door.

"There are millions of blacks who could come to the Mediterranean to cross to France and Italy, and Libya plays a role in security in the Mediterranean," he told the France 24 television station.

"Libya may become the Somalia of North Africa, of the Mediterranean," Khadafy's son, Seif, added. "You will see the pirates in Sicily, in Crete, in Lampedusa. You will see millions of illegal immigrants. The terror will be next door."

and his last words of warning on the same day he was killed and his convoy destroyed by a US/French bomb?

"Now listen you, people of NATO.

You’re bombing a wall which stood in the way of African migration to Europe, and in the way of Al Qaeda terrorists. This wall was Libya. You‘re breaking it. You’re idiots, and you will burn in Hell for thousands of migrants from Africa and for supporting Al Qaeda. It will be so. I never lie. And I do not lie now.”

[Mal]

Don't say that bro!

I was born and raised in Paris, even if I live in London right now, all the friends and family that I had on the phone/skype since the events are angry, shocked, but almost all don't want to change a thing and keep living the way they used to...

If we change, they win!

Paris will always be Paris my friend (even if the fucking rents are insane now!), you'll see next time you come!


Ô Ville Lumière
Sens la chaleur
De notre cœur
Vois-tu notre ferveur

Quand nous marchons près de toi
Dans cette quête, chasser l'ennemi
Enfin pour que nos couleurs
Brillent encore

They`ve already won. Fear is spread. That incident with fire crackers only proved it. Empty slogans with "I am no afraid" are plain stupid. People are stupid by saying that they are not afraid. They should be, random people can die on the streets every time every day. If I`d live in city with huge islamic society I`d be terrified. You`d never know which one of them can just randomly start killing people and you can`t do nothing about it, because you`ll pass thousends of them on the street which wouldn`t harm you. You just can`t find diffence between usual muslim and terrorist and that should terrify you.

[Mal]

This is what Gaddafi said as French bombs were being dropped in Tripoli:
“if I go down, Europe goes black.”Now, without Gaddafi fighting to stop of the flow of illegals, the greatest tidal wave of illegal aliens of all time is at Europe’s door.

"There are millions of blacks who could come to the Mediterranean to cross to France and Italy, and Libya plays a role in security in the Mediterranean," he told the France 24 television station.

"Libya may become the Somalia of North Africa, of the Mediterranean," Khadafy's son, Seif, added. "You will see the pirates in Sicily, in Crete, in Lampedusa. You will see millions of illegal immigrants. The terror will be next door."

and his last words of warning on the same day he was killed and his convoy destroyed by a US/French bomb?

"Now listen you, people of NATO.

You’re bombing a wall which stood in the way of African migration to Europe, and in the way of Al Qaeda terrorists. This wall was Libya. You‘re breaking it. You’re idiots, and you will burn in Hell for thousands of migrants from Africa and for supporting Al Qaeda. It will be so. I never lie. And I do not lie now.”

Truth bombs.

[JP le Requin]

Choose your poison...

kadafi was not clean, like saddam, like bashar etc...

no one is clean..
kadafi was right about this "wall" but....

i lived in africa in the 80's for 7 years, in mauritania , close to Mali and ivory coast... it was a different time... we were happy there..

[hater]

Choose your poison...

kadafi was not clean, like saddam, like bashar etc...

no one is clean..
kadafi was right about this "wall" but....

i lived in africa in the 80's for 7 years, in mauritania , close to Mali and ivory coast... it was a different time... we were happy there..

then sadly you are still asleep. Obama is not clean either. Neither is Hollande or Hillary Clinton. They have as dirty hands as Gadaffi did.

Fgcd1ghag5Y

[JP le Requin]

i told you you were right, its really hard to choose your poison, all our présidents have blonds on hands.. but kadafi etc arent better...

[hater]

i told you you were right, its really hard to choose your poison, all our présidents have blonds on hands.. but kadafi etc arent better...

but my point is kadafi had nothing to do with French policy. it's like blaming your neighbor for you setting your house on fire from within.

I don't see much French civilian fingers pointed at their own government. Not surprised but nothing will change unless ppl start waking up.

that being said RIP the ppl.

[JP le Requin]

believe me, we are fed up with all our GVT since charles de gaulle...
François Hollande is so stupid..what about N. Sarkozy?? he is so laughable trying to come back in présidentials..

Now the danger is that FN (extreme right in france) will win next présidentiel...

[hater]

believe me, we are fed up with all our GVT since charles de gaulle...
François Hollande is so stupid..what about N. Sarkozy?? he is so laughable trying to come back in présidentials..

Now the danger is that FN (extreme right in france) will win next présidentiel...

agree.

you have basically your own version of Hillary Clinton :pctoss

I can only imagine the disaster of a Clinton/Le Pen era :cry

[kaji157]

every country who has a car which work with oïl is to blame..and yes, USA, FRANCE, ENGLAND, RUSSIA, CHINA, sell weapons ...world really sucks now every one is to blame.. no more you than me
we need another REAL révolution around the world, and not letting money/oil direct our way of life.

Lol if the money made by USA, France and all those countries bombing desserts for their oil came back to me i would agree.

But those profits go diretly to sustaining a way of life that is not possible in this world anyomore a way that includes a few countries among the richest and most of those among the poorest.

If my country was one of the richest i would think like you, that is "everyone´s" fault. But because i do not gain anything from that war, my country do not support it, and the people in my country would never, ever allow our goverment to go on a war for some oil, then i disagree.

The fault is on the people that voted the goverment that lead to this tragedy.

[hater]

The fault is on the people that voted the goverment that lead to this tragedy.

agree with all your points except this. Have to say most of the people are controlled by their country's media and regardless of what politicians say, they are all willing to do the corporations bidding. So it's not like ppl have legit choices. most ppl are clueless. they need to wake up.

Also what country are you from? unless your country has been labeled a ruthless dictatorship and in the axis of evil, chances are your government also supports the West policies. its a global world now.

[Mal]

i told you you were right, its really hard to choose your poison, all our présidents have blonds on hands.. but kadafi etc arent better...

Kadafi wasn`t taken down for human rights violations. Him and Hussein were taken down with false reasons, only to protect US Dollar and world`s oil trade. It was business decision.

[kaji157]

agree with all your points except this. Have to say most of the people are controlled by their country's media and regardless of what politicians say, they are all willing to do the corporations bidding. So it's not like ppl have legit choices. most ppl are clueless. they need to wake up.

Also what country are you from? unless your country has been labeled a ruthless dictatorship and in the axis of evil, chances are your government also supports the West policies. its a global world now.

In times like today, when your family's safe is at stake because a government can take actions that directly influence your day to day life, you cannot put all the blame on the media.

Sure, the media has it´s own interest and will always protect the status quo of society in a way people doesn´t seem to understand in general, but voting is not something you do day to day, or your work, or anything like that. It is an act that is performed once every few years, in today's world where real information is a click away from you you cannot continue to blame mainstream channels, radios and newspapers, because if the people wanted the information is really out there. So now a days those who are not aware of who they are voting is because they just follow the media reviews instead of taking 2 hours of their lives to research on their vote that would ultimately affect their child lives.

So people like you and me need to stop treating people like ignorant sheep that simply "cannot do anything against the media because they are controlled" because that feeling while extremely powerful is not exactly true. Information is out there, people just have to stop being so lazy and go get it, so they can be freed and elect a good government instead.

I am from Argentina and Argentina doesn´t support any policy that involves direct aggression. We cannot and our government need approval of the congress to do so, approval that would not have. At least for now.

Anyways i surprisingly agree with most of your points, it´s scary.

[hater]

Kadafi wasn`t taken down for human rights violations. Him and Hussein were taken down with false reasons, only to protect US Dollar and world`s oil trade. It was business decision.

yup and the same thing was going on in Syria:

Namely, let us not forget that some of the United States’ staunchest allies have been, and remain, responsible for facilitating the arrival of money, materiel, and jihadists into Islamic State territory, not to mention providing the ideological guidance for the terror group. They have been doing so in the hopes of toppling Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

Jihadists have crossed the borders of Jordan and Turkey into Syria, seemingly at will. Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, and Saudi Arabia have not stopped their private citizens from sending money to various Islamist brigades, including Islamic State. They also give airtime to the muftis who provide ideological guidance to Islamic State, religious scholars who condone sectarian killing, gruesome beheadings, and sexual slavery on theological grounds.

It has been too convenient a falsity also for the West to believe that Syria’s war is Syria’s problem, or at least someone else’s problem, when so many world players are already involved in the war there, either directly or by proxy.

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/11/15/paris-attacks-the-wests-fatal-misunderstanding-of-islamic-state/

[Brazil]

I hope the poor French ppl realize one day that their government is highly responsible for these attacks. They spearheaded the Libya bombing that took out Ghadaffi. That void basically created ISIS and a lot of militants and weapons made their way to Syria from Lybia.

And the French government and Hollande were cheerleading the same thing in Syria, working on toppling Assad while arming the jihadists.

Of course the government will never accept any blame. Lets hope the poor civilian French will wake up.

not sure wtf you are talking about... you act like French are the sole responsible of Gaddafi death... Gaddafi was US number 1 public ennemy under Reagan administration, a bunch of countries wanted him dead for good and bad reasons btw...

only your stuff about let dictators do the fuck they want if they don't bother you trumps your French should blame their government for ISIS :rolleyes

[Mal]

not sure wtf you are talking about... you act like French are the sole responsible of Gaddafi death... Gaddafi was US number 1 public ennemy under Reagan administration, a bunch of countries wanted him dead for good and bad reasons btw...

only your stuff about let dictators do the fuck they want if they don't bother you trumps your French should blame their government for ISIS :rolleyes

Hussein did have those mass destruction weapons.

Kadafi was involved in some plane crash in 80`s. After that he wasnt interfering with west countries, up to the moment when he wanted to be paid in gold rather than US Dollars or Euros for his oil.

[Brazil]

After that he wasnt interfering with west countries, up to the moment when he wanted to be paid in gold rather than US Dollars or Euros for his oil.

and ?

[hater]

not sure wtf you are talking about... you act like French are the sole responsible of Gaddafi death... Gaddafi was US number 1 public ennemy under Reagan administration, a bunch of countries wanted him dead for good and bad reasons btw...

France was basically the jihadists Air Force in Libya:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_military_intervention_in_Libya

2011 Military Intervention in Syria

The effort was initially largely led by France and the United Kingdom, with command shared with the United States. NATO took control of the arms embargo on 23 March, named Operation Unified Protector.

10 March 2011: France recognized the Libyan NTC as the legitimate government of Libya soon after Sarkozy met with them in Paris.

15 March 2011: A resolution for a no-fly zone was proposed by Nawaf Salam, Lebanon's Ambassador to the UN. The resolution was immediately backed by France

France and the UK were early supporters of a no-fly zone and had sufficient airpower to impose a no-fly zone over the rebel-held areas, although they might need additional assistance for a more extensive exclusion zone.

French Air Force, which flew the highest percentage of NATO's strikes (35%)


The taking down of Gadaffi created ISIS in Libya. Then Western powers allowed the shipment of jihadidsts and weapons to their new war in Syria. ISIS grew exponentially in Syria and Iraq.

How is that not the main cause of the Paris attacks???

[Brazil]

France was basically the jihadists Air Force in Libya:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_military_intervention_in_Libya

2011 Military Intervention in Syria

The effort was initially largely led by France and the United Kingdom, with command shared with the United States. NATO took control of the arms embargo on 23 March, named Operation Unified Protector.

10 March 2011: France recognized the Libyan NTC as the legitimate government of Libya soon after Sarkozy met with them in Paris.

15 March 2011: A resolution for a no-fly zone was proposed by Nawaf Salam, Lebanon's Ambassador to the UN. The resolution was immediately backed by France

France and the UK were early supporters of a no-fly zone and had sufficient airpower to impose a no-fly zone over the rebel-held areas, although they might need additional assistance for a more extensive exclusion zone.

French Air Force, which flew the highest percentage of NATO's strikes (35%)


The taking down of Gadaffi created ISIS in Libya. Then Western powers allowed the shipment of jihadidsts and weapons to their new war in Syria. ISIS grew exponentially in Syria and Iraq.

How is that not the main cause of the Paris attacks???

thanks for confirming that France is far from being the sole responsible of Gaddafi fall, you also have no idea of what would have happened if dictature stayed in place in Lybia. ISIS origin is a bit more complex than saying Gaddafi taking down created ISIS :rolleyes

Gaddafi before being taken down was in the mass murder and terrorism business too... his mass murdering and terrorism were cleaner than ISIS ? Before ISIS, Al Quaeda attacked France, I guess it was also at that time deserved and French government was responsible for Al Quaeda too ? smh...

[hater]

I never said they were the sole responsible tbh

I said they were the main responsible.

if Gadaffi would have stayed there would be no ISIS. it originated there tbh

another one that lives asleep. wake up ppl. nothing will change if you dont wake up.

[RD2191]

Hater dropping nukes.

[K...]

Hater dropping nukes.

I dare you to explain the debate because they aren't really arguing. Hater is Saying the French knew what was coming. He's correct. Brazil says Grace didn't deserve to be attacked. That is also correct. They don't disagree on much.

[Brazil]

I never said they were the sole responsible tbh

I said they were the main responsible.

if Gadaffi would have stayed there would be no ISIS. it originated there tbh

another one that lives asleep. wake up ppl. nothing will change if you dont wake up.

You assume a lot when in fact you have no clue

France is the most pro arab western country historically against Israel, France refused to participate to Irak war... this does not prevent France from being attacked. These terrorists don't give a shit if you declare them war or not, they hate western culture as a whole... nobody is safe no matter what government position is.

What's your solution tbh ? let them do the fuck they want, let them invade all arab countries, let all dictators alone ?

[Brazil]

I dare you to explain the debate because they aren't really arguing. Hater is Saying the French knew what was coming. He's correct. Brazil says Grace didn't deserve to be attacked. That is also correct. They don't disagree on much.

pretty much

[hater]

You assume a lot when in fact you have no clue

France is the most pro arab western country historically against Israel, France refused to participate to Irak war... this does not prevent France from being attacked. These terrorists don't give a shit if you declare them war or not, they hate western culture as a whole... nobody is safe no matter what government position is.

What's your solution tbh ? let them do the fuck they want, let them invade all arab countries, let all dictators alone ?

The jihadi mercenary invaders are mainly funded by NATO member Turkey and NATO ally Saudi. That's the thing, you got it all wrong. NATO and the West have supported, armed and funded these jihadi mercenaries.

There is nothing to assume, if France and the rest of the West would stop arming, and financing these mercenaries and toppling governments, all would be better. I am 100% sure of it.

you claim to say these groups always existed, but its absolutely not true. ISIS did not exist before Lybia and Al Qaeda did not exist before Afghanistan.

[apalisoc_9]

Hater should stick to world politics instead of bball. Hes actually well informed. The average dumbass westerners dont even know these attacks are revenge and retribution attacks from a previous bombing that the west did.

Heck many people dont even know a russian airliner was downed in egypt. :lol

[hater]

"President François Hollande confirmed in a Le Monde interview on August 19 that France has been directly supplying arms to the “rebels” of the Free Syrian Army (FSA) in its proxy war to remove the regime of President Bashar al-Assad."\

According to Le Monde, it provided weapons including 12.7-mm machine guns, rocket launchers, body armour and communications equipment—but “ nothing”, according to a Le Monde source, “which ‘could have been turned against us’ such as explosives”.

In his Le Monde interview, Hollande underlined France’s determination to intervene in Syria, remarking: “We must not relax the support that we have granted to the rebels, who are the only ones participating [in the war] with democratic intentions.”

This French pro-war hysteria reflects the deeply cynical policies of its reactionary affluent middle class base, which supports French imperialism’s drive to re-colonise Syria but wants to falsely posture as critics of the Hollande government to disorient working class opposition. It may be safely assumed that, whatever tactical objections they make to the course of French war policy, they will continue to support the escalating intervention in Syria.

its this kind of shit that causes havoc in the ME and strengthens the monster that is ISIS and AlQaeda. I am 100% sure if you stop this kind of behaviour from France and others, things would be better.

[apalisoc_9]

You assume a lot when in fact you have no clue

France is the most pro arab western country historically against Israel, France refused to participate to Irak war... this does not prevent France from being attacked. These terrorists don't give a shit if you declare them war or not, they hate western culture as a whole... nobody is safe no matter what government position is.

What's your solution tbh ? let them do the fuck they want, let them invade all arab countries, let all dictators alone ?

By population maybe, but not by government. I know a lot of french people have muzzie friends and thats expected since its a rapidly growing religion there plus tons of africans. I mean one glance at the lique 1 and you can see the the demographics.

That doesnt mean France isnt partly responsible. Their bombing have caused 10k civilians dead. Not 150..thousands. if you think the west care about the civilians, think again.

[Aztecfan03]

By population maybe, but not by government. I know a lot of french people have muzzie friends and thats expected since its a rapidly growing religion there plus tons of africans. I mean one glance at the lique 1 and you can see the the demographics.

That doesnt mean France isnt partly responsible. Their bombing have caused 10k civilians dead. Not 150..thousands. if you think the west care about the civilians, think again.
big difference between partly responsible and mostly responsible as hater is claiming.

[apalisoc_9]

"President François Hollande confirmed in a Le Monde interview on August 19 that France has been directly supplying arms to the “rebels” of the Free Syrian Army (FSA) in its proxy war to remove the regime of President Bashar al-Assad."\

According to Le Monde, it provided weapons including 12.7-mm machine guns, rocket launchers, body armour and communications equipment—but “ nothing”, according to a Le Monde source, “which ‘could have been turned against us’ such as explosives”.

In his Le Monde interview, Hollande underlined France’s determination to intervene in Syria, remarking: “We must not relax the support that we have granted to the rebels, who are the only ones participating [in the war] with democratic intentions.”

This French pro-war hysteria reflects the deeply cynical policies of its reactionary affluent middle class base, which supports French imperialism’s drive to re-colonise Syria but wants to falsely posture as critics of the Hollande government to disorient working class opposition. It may be safely assumed that, whatever tactical objections they make to the course of French war policy, they will continue to support the escalating intervention in Syria.

its this kind of shit that causes havoc in the ME and strengthens the monster that is ISIS and AlQaeda. I am 100% sure if you stop this kind of behaviour from France and others, things would be better.

They need to continue doing this if they want to stay in power. ISIS is actually against the Gulf leaders...Sure they get funding there but its mostly from private donors...im sure the west would hate to see the Sauds collapse so they need to arm rebels to fight ISIS...but its a failed approach. Whats happening is that the funding isnjust making ISIS grow. ISIS basically just steals their weapon.

They are going to continue growing. And they show no mercy. Kill one of their own, and they will kill one of your own..retribution. idiots make it sound like the attacks was just so they want to conquor europe. It was a direct response from a bombing that led to civilians being killed

[apalisoc_9]

big difference between partly responsible and mostly responsible as hater is claiming.

Well they did launch air raid. My comment about being partly responsible is because the main culprit is America the capitalist...and everyone else involved is partly responsible...Saudi, Lebanon, Russia, America, France..etc..save for the US, every one of theae countries have suffered gruesome bombings.

[Brazil]

By population maybe, but not by government. I know a lot of french people have muzzie friends and thats expected since its a rapidly growing religion there plus tons of africans. I mean one glance at the lique 1 and you can see the the demographics.

That doesnt mean France isnt partly responsible. Their bombing have caused 10k civilians dead. Not 150..thousands. if you think the west care about the civilians, think again.

You are mixing up a bunch of non sense to make an argument like usual... :lol ligue 1. Damn you have muzzie friends, must make you a specialist or something...

Germany hosts as many as Muslims than France, there are already 3 M muslims in US... like having muslims is a French specialty :rolleyes yeah blabla everybody is guilty... For the record I never said France is a saint in all that story but twisting that to French deserve dat shit, this is dumb as fuck.

[Brazil]

The jihadi mercenary invaders are mainly funded by NATO member Turkey and NATO ally Saudi. That's the thing, you got it all wrong. NATO and the West have supported, armed and funded these jihadi mercenaries.

There is nothing to assume, if France and the rest of the West would stop arming, and financing these mercenaries and toppling governments, all would be better. I am 100% sure of it.

you claim to say these groups always existed, but its absolutely not true. ISIS did not exist before Lybia and Al Qaeda did not exist before Afghanistan.

Another legend, jihadi mercenaries funded by NATO and oil monarchies...

Daesh main revenues are coming from oil, human traffic, the reserve of Mossul, art traffic, private funders not by the CIA... They don't depend on small financing now, it has been a long time since they don't depend anymore on Nato arming or financing.

Specifically ISIS is a new word, people and ideology behind are there for decades and well before Lybia

[apalisoc_9]

You are mixing up a bunch of non sense to make an argument like usual... :lol ligue 1. Damn you have muzzie friends, must make you a specialist or something...

Germany hosts as many as Muslims than France, there are already 3 M muslims in US... like having muslims is a French specialty :rolleyes yeah blabla everybody is guilty... For the record I never said France is a saint in all that story but twisting that to French deserve dat shit, this is dumb as fuck.

No one is saying this guys deserves this and that. Obviously we all want peace but I'm pointing why the attack happened. Last year Saudi Arabia was attacked and bombed by ISIS repeadlty after an aerial assault. Paris is getting the same treatment.

You need to comprehend my post. That was a direct response to your claim that france is pro-arab. Of course there are going to be certain times when france has to show pro-arab setiments...they have alot of muslims in their land. Its politics.

These are just factual and basic common sense. France already knew ISIS gameplan. Spill a blood of theirs and they will killl your civilian. They did this already a year ago in Saudi.

Knowing this, they should have abandoned any verbal aerial support against ISIS and instead focus those funds on security and I ill let you handle your own problem mentality.

But they continue to support the sunni rebels who are also fighting ISIS...so long as the west conitune supporting one of ISIS main enemy (rebels), in ISIS mind the west are major enemies..

[Brazil]

No one is saying this guys deserves this and that. Obviously we all want peace but I'm pointing why the attack happened. Last year Saudi Arabia was attacked and bombed by ISIS repeadlty after an aerial assault. Paris is getting the same treatment.

You need to comprehend my post. That was a direct response to your claim that france is pro-arab. Of course there are going to be certain times when france has to show pro-arab setiments...they have alot of muslims in their land. Its politics.

These are just factual and basic common sense. France already knew ISIS gameplan. Spill a blood of theirs and they will killl your civilian. They did this already a year ago in Saudi.

Knowing this, they should have abandoned any verbal aerial support against ISIS and instead focus those funds on security and I ill let you handle your own problem mentality.

But they continue to support the sunni rebels who are also fighting ISIS...so long as the west conitune supporting one of ISIS main enemy (rebels), in ISIS mind the west are major enemies..

You are acting like we have a choice... there is no other way around, Western Countries have to defeat ISIS.

My point is that you are naive if you believe a country can be safe by just not taking part of anything... for Western Countries it's too late, as you said we are the ennemies, it takes a hand of people to make civilians dead in a capital. Cells are autonomous and will act... IIRC Australia has been the theatre of a terrorist attack, I don't remember Australian bombing ISIS in Lybia

[hater]

Another legend, jihadi mercenaries funded by NATO and oil monarchies...

Daesh main revenues are coming from oil, human traffic, the reserve of Mossul, art traffic, private funders not by the CIA... They don't depend on small financing now, it has been a long time since they don't depend anymore on Nato arming or financing.

Specifically ISIS is a new word, people and ideology behind are there for decades and well before Lybia

when ISIS was being formed these were their funders:
in the years they were getting started, a key component of ISIS’s support came from wealthy individuals in the Arab Gulf States of Kuwait, Qatar and Saudi Arabia.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/14/america-s-allies-are-funding-isis.html

“Everybody knows the money is going through Kuwait and that it’s coming from the Arab Gulf,” said Andrew Tabler, senior fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. “Kuwait’s banking system and its money changers have long been a huge problem because they are a major conduit for money to extremist groups in Syria and now Iraq.”


Arab states still pour hundreds of millions to the many factions in Syria, many of these factions eventually join ISIS either peacefully or by force. It's a logical fact to say Arab states fund ISIS.

[hater]

To reach Syria, Libyan fighters must cross the Mediterranean Sea and enter via Turkey, or cross Egypt, Israel, and enter via Jordan. The government of Syria has threatened Libya in no conceivable manner, making Libya's campaign an intolerable act of military aggression. Worst of all, the NATO-installed government in Tripoli has officially approved of supporting military operations in distant Syria.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ZaViGmNhjJg/UCqjvn536bI/AAAAAAAAC2c/-Q2MXjI-0fM/s640/LibyaSyria.jpg


in other words France and rest of NATO are supporting a foreign invasion of mercenaries and jihadists to Syria....

On Wednesday, CNN’s crew met a Libyan fighter who had crossed into Syria from Turkey with four other Libyans. The fighter wore full camouflage and was carrying a Kalashnikov rifle. He said more Libyan fighters were on the way.

The foreign fighters, some of them are clearly drawn because they see this as … a jihad. So this is a magnet for jihadists who see this as a fight for Sunni Muslims.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2012/08/libyan-terrorists-are-invading-syria.html

The New York Times admitted in June 2012 in their article, "C.I.A. Said to Aid in Steering Arms to Syrian Opposition," that "CIA officers are operating secretly in southern Turkey," and directing weapons including, "automatic rifles, rocket-propelled grenades, ammunition and some antitank weapons." The NYT implicates Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar as the primary underwriters for the weapons while the CIA coordinates the logistics.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2012/08/libyan-terrorists-are-invading-syria.html

[apalisoc_9]

You are acting like we have a choice... there is no other way around, Western Countries have to defeat ISIS.

My point is that you are naive if you believe a country can be safe by just not taking part of anything... for Western Countries it's too late, as you said we are the ennemies, it takes a hand of people to make civilians dead in a capital. Cells are autonomous and will act... IIRC Australia has been the theatre of a terrorist attack, I don't remember Australian bombing ISIS in Lybia

Well western countries created the chaos. All these militant groups are a direct result of continuous intervention. Playing victim here is just stupid. All of these militants are a direct result of poverty and hate. Regardlesd of religion, any occupied region will have rebels fighting occupier. Australia have been a major financial force against ISIS..they have been huge supporters of Sunni rebels and kurds fighting ISIS. You are delusional and stupid if these attacks is a muslim plan to control the whole world. Many people think like that but many people are ignorant. These terrorist you call never existed at this level pre Iraq war. Heck the Sahah of Iran that was disposed of by a revolution that was partly supported by the west was an ally of Saudi Arabia...The middle east was actually stable.

More intervention the better for ISIS as it makes their messgae us against them even more bigger. They will eat up all the sunni rebels that is fighting them. And if the kurds start to feel like the west is actually an enemy of Islam, they might even let them eat kurdistan.

Ive spoken to so many westerners that actually think kurds arent muslims..:lmao

It shows the huge ignorance people have on this issue.

[Brazil]

Well western countries created the chaos. All these militant groups are a direct result of continuous intervention. Playing victim here is just stupid. All of these militants are a direct result of poverty and hate. Regardlesd of religion, any occupied region will have rebels fighting occupier. Australia have been a major financial force against ISIS..they have been huge supporters of Sunni rebels and kurds fighting ISIS. You are delusional and stupid if these attacks is a muslim plan to control the whole world. Many people think like that but many people are ignorant. These terrorist you call never existed at this level pre Iraq war. Heck the Sahah of Iran that was disposed of by a revolution that was partly supported by the west was an ally of Saudi Arabia...The middle east was actually stable.

More intervention the better for ISIS as it makes their messgae us against them even more bigger. They will eat up all the sunni rebels that is fighting them. And if the kurds start to feel like the west is actually an enemy of Islam, they might even let them eat kurdistan.

Ive spoken to so many westerners that actually think kurds arent muslims..:lmao

It shows the huge ignorance people have on this issue.

You are disturbing tbh... what do you imply with your posts ? You are saying let them prosper ? do not interfe and it's gonna be ok ?

Why they are here, who funded them, who is the biggest culprit: France to take down Gaddafi, US starting a war, the creation of Israel, Russian in Afganhistan etc etc... is nice for discussing back and forth during a diner but it is not gonna solve the problem we have today. They have to be taken down, there is no alternative to that.

Also sorry but your middle east was actually stable is false, middle east has always been a mess since Israel creation

[Brazil]

when ISIS was being formed these were their funders:
in the years they were getting started, a key component of ISIS’s support came from wealthy individuals in the Arab Gulf States of Kuwait, Qatar and Saudi Arabia.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/14/america-s-allies-are-funding-isis.html

“Everybody knows the money is going through Kuwait and that it’s coming from the Arab Gulf,” said Andrew Tabler, senior fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. “Kuwait’s banking system and its money changers have long been a huge problem because they are a major conduit for money to extremist groups in Syria and now Iraq.”


Arab states still pour hundreds of millions to the many factions in Syria, many of these factions eventually join ISIS either peacefully or by force. It's a logical fact to say Arab states fund ISIS.

Again irrelevant to today's discussion, they had to get somne funding at one point for sure... now they don't depend of that anymore

[hater]

:lol who is arguing where their funding comes from now? Their initial funding came from Arab states, that's how they were formed.

much of their funding still does. (although you are right on the other sources)

still doesn't take from my statements that the toppling of Assad by France and Nato + funding from Arabs = ISIS

[apalisoc_9]

You are disturbing tbh... what do you imply with your posts ? You are saying let them prosper ? do not interfe and it's gonna be ok ?

Why they are here, who funded them, who is the biggest culprit: France to take down Gaddafi, US starting a war, the creation of Israel, Russian in Afganhistan etc etc... is nice for discussing back and forth during a diner but it is not gonna solve the problem we have today. They have to be taken down, there is no alternative to that.

Also sorry but your middle east was actually stable is false, middle east has always been a mess since Israel creation

You are not getting it are you? Interference will make them prosper. ISIS is notna country its a way of thinking..So long as there are muslims outnthere who think they are opporesed it wont die out

Israel creation is a direct west intervention. :lol..thats when all this shit started...You dont take lands and tell people to gtfo and let these european jew live here of cours thats going to create a mess.

There were no ISIS in the 70's tbh

Continous intervention has allowed these organizations to grow. Thats what you cant seem to understand. ISIS thrives when they are at war.

[hater]

You are not getting it are you? Interference will make them prosper. ISIS is notna country its a way of thinking..So long as there are muslims outnthere who think they are opporesed it wont die out

There were no ISIS in the 70's tbh

boom. truth nukes

as long as there are billionaires in Saudi/Kuwait/Qatar, ISIS (or whatever name they change to soon) will exist

and as long as France/US/NATO keeps toppling regimes, ISIS will grow

[BatManu20]

665937003913936896

[apalisoc_9]

:lol who is arguing where their funding comes from now? Their initial funding came from Arab states, that's how they were formed.

much of their funding still does. (although you are right on the other sources)

still doesn't take from my statements that the toppling of Assad by France and Nato + funding from Arabs = ISIS

This is why ISIS is going to be impossible to stop because the west has zero balls to call out saudi arabia and other gulf countries.

The private civilians are funding ISIS. The west and the arab states themselves fund rebels that fight ISIS who in turn lose and lose their weapon.

On one end, ISIS is going old school here. Fear Propaganda, win and get weapons..and on the other end, they are strategically trying to make the west provide more weapons to their enemies so they can steal them.

A bulk of their arsenal is western made :lol

This isnt Al-Qeada. Alqaeda and ISIS are actually mortal enemies but the former has been complelety reduced to a small group. ISIS is sophisticated and their Goals far exceed what Al-Qaeda is trying to accomplish.

Boots on land will make ISIS even stronger. More weapon support to those "moderate" sunnis will just give ISIS more ammunation...

This is a problem that will be almost impossible to stop

[hater]

The main reason US/France and NATO let Saudi do as they please is they view Iran as the great er enemy. Iran+Iraq+Syria = a pretty mighty Persian empire that could twart US puppet Saudi. they could eventually possibly take over the entire peninsula along with Shiite Yemen's help. Saudi would basically be overun.

funny thing is that the main reason why Iraq joined Iran alliance and tipped the blalance is Bush Jr taking out Saddam :lol

idiots over at the Pentagon and Langley :lol monkeys that don't know what the fuck they are doing

[apalisoc_9]

boom. truth nukes

as long as there are billionaires in Saudi/Kuwait/Qatar, ISIS (or whatever name they change to soon) will exist

and as long as France/US/NATO keeps toppling regimes, ISIS will grow

Its almot more complex than just saudi and qataris...Saudis and the Gulf are against ISIS but they are too pussy to fight so they resort to their rebel proxies who no shot against ISIS. But private donors are for sure giving money to isis...the thing is even saudi monarchs have different opinion on this matter. Some are funding ISIS some are fighting ISIS..the end though almost always benefits ISIS.

The west and the gulf have to realize, they are not winning using proxies and unconvential methods against the masters of unconventional methods.

[apalisoc_9]

The main reason US/France and NATO let Saudi do as they please is they view Iran as the great er enemy. Iran+Iraq+Syria = a pretty mighty Persian empire that could twart US puppet Saudi.

funny thing is that the main reason why Iraq joined Iran alliance and tipped the blalance is Bush Jr taking out Saddam :lol

idiots :lol they don't know what the fuck they are doing

I think a clear shift is happening. The nuclear deal with Iran IMO was an indirect admitance that isis is gaining a lot of power..somewhere down the road Iran-Israel-SA will have to work together to maintain their status if they are not already doing so in private

[hater]

Saudi and Iran are mortal enemies tbh. So are Israel and Iran

I think US just doesn't see the threat from Iran like Israel/Saudi view it. Iran has a pretty mediocre army. Their generals are getting slaughtered in Syria as we speak. Iran is a joke basically and US knows it. Israel/Saudi make it seem Iran is almighty just because they are extremists states that crave for power.

Also, Israel has nothing to fear, they have a mighty powerful army. On the other hand Saudi has a laughable army, they are probably geniunely scared :lol their expensive army is currently getting knowere vs people carrying sticks and stones in Yemen

[apalisoc_9]

Lets put it this way, ISIS is like that shiity team that likes to park the bus because they are not talented. Attack and they might score on a counter, defend and you are making them win.

They are for sure beatable but they have a strategic plan that could pose major problems regardless of how you want to approach them.

[apalisoc_9]

Saudi and Iran are mortal enemies tbh. So are Israel and Iran

I think US just doesn't see the threat from Iran like Israel/Saudi view it. Iran has a pretty mediocre army. Their generals are getting slaughtered in Syria as we speak. Iran is a joke basically and US knows it. Israel/Saudi make it seem Iran is almighty just because they are extremists states that crave for power.

Also, Israel has nothing to fear, they have a mighty powerful army. On the other hand Saudi has a laughable army, they are probably geniunely scared :lol their expensive army is currently getting knowere vs people carrying sticks and stones in Yemen

For now they are mortal enemis. But if history has thought me a lesson, enemies become friends when a greater enemy is on the horizon...I am refering to ISIS..if ISIS gains enough power..they might have to reconsider their mortal enemy status.

As of now they one thing in common, Saudi monarchs are giving money to rebels to fight ISIS. Iran is supporting Assad to fight ISIS and the rebels. For sure you are right there is many saudis fund ISIS, but these are mostly rich non royals who hate the monarchs.

[Brazil]

You are not getting it are you? Interference will make them prosper. ISIS is notna country its a way of thinking..So long as there are muslims outnthere who think they are opporesed it wont die out

Israel creation is a direct west intervention. :lol..thats when all this shit started...You dont take lands and tell people to gtfo and let these european jew live here of cours thats going to create a mess.

There were no ISIS in the 70's tbh

Continous intervention has allowed these organizations to grow. Thats what you cant seem to understand. ISIS thrives when they are at war.

dude... really ?

That's what I am saying, all that shit started with Israel creation 70 years ago! creation directly encouraged by Western Countries, thanks for admiting the region was never stable since then contrary to your statement of region was stable after taking down Sahha of Iran.

Now you are cute about dodging the question... what are you implying ? we stop all intervention and let them flourish alone ? that's your brilliant idea tbh ?

[apalisoc_9]

You know who has not shown a direct hate towards ISIS? Israel:lol

They are benefitting big time with the confusion is making...not to mention they might start land grabbing again in palestine and syria and your typical western idiot would cheer for it.

[Brazil]

For now they are mortal enemis. But if history has thought me a lesson, enemies become friends when a greater enemy is on the horizon...I am refering to ISIS..if ISIS gains enough power..they might have to reconsider their mortal enemy status.

As of now they one thing in common, Saudi monarchs are giving money to rebels to fight ISIS. Iran is supporting Assad to fight ISIS and the rebels. For sure you are right there is many saudis fund ISIS, but these are mostly rich non royals who hate the monarchs.

and again those funds are small stuff compared to their actual financing... and btw the real strategic country in this story is Turkey, most of ISIS traffics and money are coming from Turkish borders, they don't do shit to stop it and refuse to open their military basis... I doubt they can continue to joke around with US and Europe tbh

[apalisoc_9]

dude... really ?

That's what I am saying, all that shit started with Israel creation 70 years ago! creation directly encouraged by Western Countries, thanks for admiting the region was never stable since then contrary to your statement of region was stable after taking down Sahha of Iran.

Now you are cute about dodging the question... what are you implying ? we stop all intervention and let them flourish alone ? that's your brilliant idea tbh ?

Idiot israel was created in the 40s..the west was a more brutal place than the ME before that with this capitalism vs communism bs...Genocide was actually happening in Europe.

No. ISIS has shown how weak they can be when there is no action going around. When there is a short stint of peace the rebels that the west support gain ground. When ISIS is agitated, and war is there...they conquor.

Terrorism was never a problem until the west made it...thanks to the iraq war, ME governments are falling one by one..If Saudi Arabia gets into war and gets manhandled by ISIS, its not going to be pretty. They have so many weapons and advanced shit but they are cowards. I expect them to fold against ISIS..

This is why the west is so keen on protecting Saudi Arabia..Saudi is basically their king in the middle east chess game.

[apalisoc_9]

and again those funds are small stuff compared to their actual financing... and btw the real strategic country in this story is Turkey, most of ISIS traffics and money are coming from Turkish borders, they don't do shit to stop it and refuse to open their military basis... I doubt they can continue to joke around with US and Europe tbh

Turkey already has the kurds to deal with. Cant you see the big picture brazil? ISIS is trying to force the west to make boots intervention and create their Muslims vs Them war. If that happens, they will eat up the sunni rebels that is fighting them and they might end up getting kurdistan..The Kurds are actually mostly muslims. If they get their version of Armagedon whomis to say they be able to unite the people they are fighting with?

These guys are strategic..and clearly have bigger hopes. Alqaeda which the west never really beat is like a minnow compared to ISIS..the west will fall into their trap if they decide to intervene with boots

[Brazil]

Idiot israel was created in the 40s..the west was a more brutal place than the ME before that with this capitalism vs communism bs...Genocide was actually happening in Europe.

I know when Israel was created dummy... 70 years ago... not sure where you are going with your west was more brutal... again so what ? ME has been destabilized since this creation, ME was never stable again after that


No. ISIS has shown how weak they can be when there is no action going around. When there is a short stint of peace the rebels that the west support gain ground. When ISIS is agitated, and war is there...they conquor.

Terrorism was never a problem until the west made it...thanks to the iraq war, ME governments are falling one by one..If Saudi Arabia gets into war and gets manhandled by ISIS, its not going to be pretty. They have so many weapons and advanced shit but they are cowards. I expect them to fold against ISIS..

This is why the west is so keen on protecting Saudi Arabia..Saudi is basically their king in the middle east chess game.

When did Isis show how weak they are when there is no action round ? you are speaking out of ass as usual or you have something to back up this odd statement ?

If Saudi Arabia goes alone ya thats not gonna be pretty but it won't happen. I'm still waiting for your solution tho... give ISIS a peace and let the rebels fight and gain ground ? that's the plan ? :rolleyes ... ok

[apalisoc_9]

And while turkey is a liberal muslim country..they would never go on a full blown war against ISIS. If you havent noticed yet, Turkey is trying to position themsleves again as a potential islmic leader since erdogans came to power late 90's and while the majority of turks despite the fact that majority of them are liberal still have proisliamc sentiments.

They wont fight ISIS. Turkey will let others handle ISIS.

[Brazil]

Turkey already has the kurds to deal with. Cant you see the big picture brazil? ISIS is trying to force the west to make boots intervention and create their Muslims vs Them war. If that happens, they will eat up the sunni rebels that is fighting them and they might end up getting kurdistan..The Kurds are actually mostly muslims. If they get their version of Armagedon whomis to say they be able to unite the people they are fighting with?

These guys are strategic..and clearly have bigger hopes. Alqaeda which the west never really beat is like a minnow compared to ISIS..the west will fall into their trap if they decide to intervene with boots

Turkey has the kurds to deal with but will have some ISIS trouble soon enough plus uncle sam and Europe on their back, they will have to take a position sooner or later... they are pretty much fucked... they cannot go ISIS so they will support West but that will piss off its radicalists... they don't have much of a choice imo.

Of course ISIS want Western enter in an Afganhistan kind of conflict that's why NATO does not want to make a boots intervention and air strike.

So far western strategy is air strikes and try to make ISIS run out of ressources and chase leaders down one by one. We should also support rebels fighting them but yeah in 20 years, a great spirit like hater will explain the next new terrorist group came from Western Countries financing them during their war against ISIS

[Brazil]

And while turkey is a liberal muslim country..they would never go on a full blown war against ISIS. If you havent noticed yet, Turkey is trying to position themsleves again as a potential islmic leader since erdogans came to power late 90's and while the majority of turks despite the fact that majority of them are liberal still have proisliamc sentiments.

They wont fight ISIS. Turkey will let others handle ISIS.

absolutely... that's why they are fucked... they have to help stopping contraband and protect borders, help NATO and still try to sell the idea they are neutral

pretty much the recipe of a disaster

[Mal]

and ?

You are being ignorant, I wont continue

[K...]

Hater should stick to world politics instead of bball. Hes actually well informed. The average dumbass westerners dont even know these attacks are revenge and retribution attacks from a previous bombing that the west did.

Heck many people dont even know a russian airliner was downed in egypt. :lol

Wait did you just admit you know the jihadis personally? What's the number for canada homeland defense? Lmao apo the Muslim apologist.


So according to the apo doctrine, we should never stop genocide in other countries if those genocides have threatened to hit back

[apalisoc_9]

I know when Israel was created dummy... 70 years ago... not sure where you are going with your west was more brutal... again so what ? ME has been destabilized since this creation, ME was never stable again after that



When did Isis show how weak they are when there is no action round ? you are speaking out of ass as usual or you have something to back up this odd statement ?

If Saudi Arabia goes alone ya thats not gonna be pretty but it won't happen. I'm still waiting for your solution tho... give ISIS a peace and let the rebels fight and gain ground ? that's the plan ? :rolleyes ... ok

Just look at Iraq...its basic common sense brazil. The more war there is the more muslims youths.are going to be prone to radicalization. Its common sense.

Yeah, let the rebels fight it out. Rebels are getting minimal local support right now even though many muslims hate isis because the rebels are gettind aid from the west. You need to understand Islamic idelogy here. Instead of getting these youth to fight ISIS and Assad, they are fighting for ISIS because ISIS is the one thats not getting any help from the west. The rebels actually made major wins before the shift of jihadist..Inseatd of getting jihadist fighting Assad, and joining the rebels, they are now joining ISIS. The Gulf is enough to.support the rebels to a win, but as it stands..jihadist are now fighting for ISIS...previously all the influx of jihadist fought assad.

[K...]

Turkey already has the kurds to deal with. Cant you see the big picture brazil? ISIS is trying to force the west to make boots intervention and create their Muslims vs Them war. If that happens, they will eat up the sunni rebels that is fighting them and they might end up getting kurdistan..The Kurds are actually mostly muslims. If they get their version of Armagedon whomis to say they be able to unite the people they are fighting with?

These guys are strategic..and clearly have bigger hopes. Alqaeda which the west never really beat is like a minnow compared to ISIS..the west will fall into their trap if they decide to intervene with boots

This post here is nonsense

[K...]

Just look at Iraq...its basic common sense brazil. The more war there is the more muslims youths.are going to be prone to radicalization. Its common sense.

Yeah, let the rebels fight it out. Rebels are getting minimal local support right now even though many muslims hate isis because the rebels are gettind aid from the west. You need to understand Islamic idelogy here. Instead of getting these youth to fight ISIS and Assad, they are fighting for ISIS because ISIS is the one thats not getting any help from the west. The rebels actually made major wins before the shift of jihadist..Inseatd of getting jihadist fighting Assad, and joining the rebels, they are now joining ISIS. The Gulf is enough to.support the rebels to a win, but as it stands..jihadist are now fighting for ISIS...previously all the influx of jihadist fought assad.

This post is also nonsense. You are typing too fast. Obv this animates you

[apalisoc_9]

This post here is nonsense

Dont quote me. You are by far the most average typical american idiot..Im talking to brazil here...he.actually has good knolwedge about the subject just a faulty understanding

[apalisoc_9]

Wait did you just admit you know the jihadis personally? What's the number for canada homeland defense? Lmao apo the Muslim apologist.


So according to the apo doctrine, we should never stop genocide in other countries if those genocides have threatened to hit back

You are so dumb. ISIS made it public they are respondingntonthe death of their commrade. I DONT KNOW ISIS and i am against their ruthless ways. Please stop quoting me. Im actually talking to hater and brazil they know their stuff

[Brazil]

You are being ignorant, I wont continue

who the fuck are you tbh ? some nazist dude buddy with infinite limit ?

all Polish are like that or ST is lucky enough to have the two unique specimen ?

[apalisoc_9]

absolutely... that's why they are fucked... they have to help stopping contraband and protect borders, help NATO and still try to sell the idea they are neutral

pretty much the recipe of a disaster

I agree. Turkey will have to make a stand. They obviously love Muslims so.a war on a muslim land will be a tough choice. Im predicting they will go the coward way and not.do anything.

[apalisoc_9]

I suspect Saudi Arabia will do the same thing. In the end, the cycle will continue because the West needs complete commitment from Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iran who i think are never going to be committed.

[Brazil]

Just look at Iraq...its basic common sense brazil. The more war there is the more muslims youths.are going to be prone to radicalization. Its common sense.

Yeah, let the rebels fight it out. Rebels are getting minimal local support right now even though many muslims hate isis because the rebels are gettind aid from the west. You need to understand Islamic idelogy here. Instead of getting these youth to fight ISIS and Assad, they are fighting for ISIS because ISIS is the one thats not getting any help from the west. The rebels actually made major wins before the shift of jihadist..Inseatd of getting jihadist fighting Assad, and joining the rebels, they are now joining ISIS. The Gulf is enough to.support the rebels to a win, but as it stands..jihadist are now fighting for ISIS...previously all the influx of jihadist fought assad.

Rebels are not organized neither equipped enough to stand against an organization of this side... they won't go anywhere without a massive support of the West through air strike, money, equipments... I share your idea tho that making a boots intervention would fail imo but we cannot wait decades till rebels take down ISIS... The mess is already on European borders.

Good or Bad Russia, US, Europe will have to ally with Iran and Turkey and Hassad to get through that...

[hater]

Brazil has great Tony Parker takes. But very average foreign policy takes.

What is this bullshit that ISIS gets most of its funding from its oil, drugs/human trafficking?? Do you have links/evidence to ISIS book keeping? Not fully disagreeing but I would like to see your sources where you base your logic that Arabian money is little compared to their oil revenues...

We do know hundreds of millions are being poured on all Syrian rebel groups as well as thousands of tons of armament. ISIS gets a big piece of that cake.

Let's not pretent ISIS is paying for all its effort on its own. that's bullshit. otherwise show proof

[hater]

Antalya, Turkey – Russian President Vladimir Putin has announced that he has shared intelligence with the other G20 member states, which reveals the 40 countries from which ISIS finances the majority of their terrorist activities. The list reportedly included a number of G20 countries.
Read more at http://thefreethoughtproject.com/putin-shares-intel-g20-exposing-isis-financed-40-countries/#P06Cjeo7eZckpWIT.99

[K...]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.businessinsider.com/isis-making-50-million-a-month-from-oil-sales-2015-10&ved=0CBsQFjAAahUKEwiS_OD0iZbJAhVCpx4KHf_ZAU8&usg=AFQjCNFlywmWNDNZrGN3-ivzerprmxCcaw

[hater]

Yes I know that. But Arab states pour hundreds of millions a month to anyone who'll fight Asssad

[Mal]

who the fuck are you tbh ? some nazist dude buddy with infinite limit ?

all Polish are like that or ST is lucky enough to have the two unique specimen ?

I call you ignorant, for keeping asking unimportant question, you call me nazi. I dont care. Nazi, rasists are being used so often, so wrongly, that I couldnt care less.

I`ll keep writing on ignorant part. France goverment have all the means, all the power to deal with any islamic fundementalists. They didnt fall from the sky, somebody paid them, somebody trained them, they are living in society. Some of them were born in France and Belgium, right under your supervision. But french goverment, french people are ignorant on that matter. If someone speaks, that he is afraid of jihadists, radical muslims, fundamentalists, he is called as nazi, intolerant. I still can`t undestand how it is possible that hashtags, silent march or highlighting building in french colours are still being considered the solution ? Random bombing ISIS also isnt the solution. Terrorist nests are possibly spread across whole Europe, when there is a bigger muslim community. You can`t set an organisation without some structures that are hidden in communities.

And to be clear, France, french people didn`t deserve that. No one does. Saying that is wrong, I hope I didn`t wrote it here in emotions. But again, France wasn`t being chosen to be attacked randomly, attacks could have been prevented, even not by leaving Kadafi in Libya. Authorities could have follow the money, monitor communication. They have the means to do that. You can see how quickly they`ve got everything figured out. They even taken down other groups planning more attacks.

Young muslim people did not have to go to school, get an eduction, get a job, buy a house. Everything is being given to them in social benefits. They have time, money and some morons saying things about killing infidel to radicalize. Uneducated people tends to follow whatever they are being repeatedly said.

And I am writing here on freaking sports forum about that matter, because I want to know what are opinions from foreign people on such important matter. I have no other place to do this, and since there is a discussion. I don`t want any muslim in my country, for sake of peace and harmless living.

[DMC]

How can "reason" exist if no absolute truth exists (keep in mind I'm speaking of truth, not facts)? "Rationality" and "reason" are just as arbitrary as religion with regard to morality since, as Hume taught us, you cannot derive an ought from an is. There's no absolute truth to morally anchor ourselves to, so how can you truly build a rational moral foundation? Even that hack Sam Harris realizes this conundrum and wrote an awful book (which was destroyed in review by philosophers who actually know what they're doing) trying to reconcile science with morality.

In the pragmatic sense, religion and faith are a perfectly rational response to the seemingly senseless and purposeless state of the universe and reality at large. There are many facets of the human condition that science and "reason" can never, ever make sense of nor "satisfy" existentially. You'll likely say, "They need to stop being so weak minded and face that cruel "truth" head on, like us enlightened atheists do." If that's your feeling, then who is the irrational and dogmatic one in this case?

And what's all this talk about eschatology? Which Christian leaders are launching nuclear weapons in an effort to bring about Armageddon and thus the Final Judgement? I don't see the Saudis, who are in love with their soccer, exotic cars, and lavish lifestyles, planning or doing any such thing? Hell, the Cold War was the perfect setting for an Apocalypse. The Christian West vs. The Atheist Soviet Union and their allies. I didn't see a Catholic JFK launching anything toward Moscow. It's always the fringe, and to generalize a whole from a very, very, tiny part is an irrational move.

God even explicitly commands not to kill with Jesus commanding to, "Love Thy Enemy." So if Christians defy those laws, it's not religion's fault, it's human fault.

And if religion "dies out," it'll just be replaced by an ideology that "appeals to science" and purports itself to be rational. Again, look how many evil deeds were done by "scientists" trying to "improve" the human race through eugenic programs. And that mindset still persists very strongly to this day.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Race_realism

Don't mistake me for demonizing science. Point is, ANYTHING can be turned into an ideology, because like I said, we unfortunately have this innate need to feel superior to the "other." Germany has long been a center of scientific and philosophical innovation, and look how easily their populace was duped since Hitler and Co. knew how to emotionally manipulate the populace by appealing to race.

When I said "works," I was referring to examples of institutions like science, religion, culture prompting human flourishing. "War" and "murder" are also not created equal, since there are such things as a just war (not in the religious sense, but for self defense/fighting evil) and justifiable homicide. Aside from that, though, I would argue that war and murder do not "work," since the logical conclusion of both is extinction or at the very least living in a world that is extremely harsh and unpleasant (though, that is relative, since there are no doubt a segment of people intrigued by a might makes right world).

lol no again.

God told Abraham to kill his own child, and Abraham was about to disembowel the little bastard because he has faith! That's good, right? Disemboweling your kid is a good thing if you think God told you to.

Love thy enemy, yet God killed everyone on the planet except a white guy and his kids..oh and two of every single animal on the entire planet. None of these people were a threat to God, who created them in his image, imperfect as they are. Oh but don't kill.

You know what else God commands? Do not paint his picture, or have any other god before him. That's right up there with murder. Also, don't work on the Sabbath. That's punishable by death.

Don't get all flower child on me and forget the rest of the book.

Nothing you said gets religion a get out of jail free card.

I'm not even sure you believe half the shit you just posted.

lol philosophers who "know what they're doing". lol

[apalisoc_9]

I call you ignorant, for keeping asking unimportant question, you call me nazi. I dont care. Nazi, rasists are being used so often, so wrongly, that I couldnt care less.

I`ll keep writing on ignorant part. France goverment have all the means, all the power to deal with any islamic fundementalists. They didnt fall from the sky, somebody paid them, somebody trained them, they are living in society. Some of them were born in France and Belgium, right under your supervision. But french goverment, french people are ignorant on that matter. If someone speaks, that he is afraid of jihadists, radical muslims, fundamentalists, he is called as nazi, intolerant. I still can`t undestand how it is possible that hashtags, silent march or highlighting building in french colours are still being considered the solution ? Random bombing ISIS also isnt the solution. Terrorist nests are possibly spread across whole Europe, when there is a bigger muslim community. You can`t set an organisation without some structures that are hidden in communities.

And to be clear, France, french people didn`t deserve that. No one does. Saying that is wrong, I hope I didn`t wrote it here in emotions. But again, France wasn`t being chosen to be attacked randomly, attacks could have been prevented, even not by leaving Kadafi in Libya. Authorities could have follow the money, monitor communication. They have the means to do that. You can see how quickly they`ve got everything figured out. They even taken down other groups planning more attacks.

Young muslim people did not have to go to school, get an eduction, get a job, buy a house. Everything is being given to them in social benefits. They have time, money and some morons saying things about killing infidel to radicalize. Uneducated people tends to follow whatever they are being repeatedly said.

And I am writing here on freaking sports forum about that matter, because I want to know what are opinions from foreign people on such important matter. I have no other place to do this, and since there is a discussion. I don`t want any muslim in my country, for sake of peace and harmless living.

You are stupid. To suggest that france allows and makes terrorist. Such a stupid take. Get your white supremisct BS out of here.

[HarlemHeat37]

You are stupid. To suggest that france allows and makes terrorist. Such a stupid take. Get your white supremisct BS out of here.

:lol Poland had an anti-immigration rally the other day, tbh..did you see it? the interviews with the protesters were :lmao

[apalisoc_9]

:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry
:lol Poland had an anti-immigration rally the other day, tbh..did you see it? the interviews with the protesters were :lmao

Lol these idiots supremict are just insecure. They're scarednof another Golden Islamic Era and be led by browns again :lol..

But but whites have always ruled the world :cry

Its pretty disturbing to see people push their racist agenda whenn150 civilans just died...making stupid claims that france and the uk are creating terrorist because browns rule that land now..its par for the course for these idiots

[pgardn]

This analysis is about as bad at it gets.
Apoplectic, go to the political section so the lobotomy can be performed.

[midnightpulp]

lol no again.

God told Abraham to kill his own child, and Abraham was about to disembowel the little bastard because he has faith! That's good, right? Disemboweling your kid is a good thing if you think God told you to.

Love thy enemy, yet God killed everyone on the planet except a white guy and his kids..oh and two of every single animal on the entire planet. None of these people were a threat to God, who created them in his image, imperfect as they are. Oh but don't kill.

You know what else God commands? Do not paint his picture, or have any other god before him. That's right up there with murder. Also, don't work on the Sabbath. That's punishable by death.

Don't get all flower child on me and forget the rest of the book.

Nothing you said gets religion a get out of jail free card.

I'm not even sure you believe half the shit you just posted.

lol philosophers who "know what they're doing". lol

No Christian, aside from fundamentalist wackos, reads those stories literally.

But yes, religion (or other ideologies, based on science, economics, philosophy, etc) shouldn't get a "get a jail out of free" card and should always be critiqued and challenged from every angle to improve their efficacy.

Yes, Harris throws logic aside and simply appeals to "fact," much of which is based on his arbitrary definition of "human flourishing." The whole book is the Naturalistic Fallacy embodied, so I guess you don't need to be "philosopher who knows what they're doing" to take it apart, just intelligent.

[DMC]

No Christian, aside from fundamentalist wackos, reads those stories literally.

Because they are all bullshit. They might as well be comic books, but too bad Christians think God hates fags, and too bad Christians think an omniscient being killed his own son to save mankind from the same god who could just say "nah fuck it", who has his own son back anyhow because trololol he snuck out of the tomb. Like I said, when you practice a belief fundamentally and are considered crazy, the belief is fucked up. The candy coated, new world view version of killing your own kid is cute, how convenient now that you have a new moral code. Wouldn't you just like to strike those verses from the book? Too bad, it's not science so it can never be wrong.


But yes, religion (or other ideologies, based on science, economics, philosophy, etc) shouldn't get a "get a jail out of free" card and should always be critiqued and challenged from every angle to improve their efficacy.

Yes, Harris throws logic aside and simply appeals to "fact," much of which is based on his arbitrary definition of "human flourishing." The whole book is the Naturalistic Fallacy embodied, so I guess you don't need to be "philosopher who knows what they're doing" to take it apart, just intelligent.
Everything you're using as an argument has been defeated long before Harris ever swam in his father's testicles.

[midnightpulp]

Because they are all bullshit. They might as well be comic books, but too bad Christians think God hates fags, and too bad Christians think an omniscient being killed his own son to save mankind from the same god who could just say "nah fuck it", who has his own son back anyhow because trololol he snuck out of the tomb. Like I said, when you practice a belief fundamentally and are considered crazy, the belief is fucked up. The candy coated, new world view version of killing your own kid is cute, how convenient now that you have a new moral code. Wouldn't you just like to strike those verses from the book? Too bad, it's not science so it can never be wrong.

Everything you're using as an argument has been defeated long before Harris ever swam in his father's testicles.

God's behavior in those cases (commanding to kill sons, flooding the Earth, etc) isn't a "tenant" of the Christian faith, so what he did (which are allegorical stories, anyhow) isn't supposed to be done by his followers. "Only God can judge." I also see nothing wrong with taking the positive aspects of any religion or philosophy and using those while ignoring the "bad" (just because Nietzsche was a misogynist, for example, doesn't automatically invalidate other things he wrote). The good majority of religious followers practice the "lovey dovey" aspects of their faith. I don't see how that's a problem. We'll just agree to disagree here.

No, the Naturalistic Fallacy has never been "defeated." Facts about nature are just facts, and don't imply moral value, which is a human construct, and sometimes very relative to culture and time period. Every time humanity has tried to derive moral value from scientific facts, it has gone horribly, horribly wrong.

[DMC]

God's behavior in those cases (commanding to kill sons, flooding the Earth, etc) isn't a "tenant" of the Christian faith, so what he did (which are allegorical stories, anyhow) isn't supposed to be done by his followers. "Only God can judge." I also see nothing wrong with taking the positive aspects of any religion or philosophy and using those while ignoring the "bad" (just because Nietzsche was a misogynist, for example, doesn't automatically invalidate other things he wrote). The good majority of religious followers practice the "lovey dovey" aspects of their faith. I don't see how that's a problem. We'll just agree to disagree here.

No, the Naturalistic Fallacy has never been "defeated." Facts about nature are just facts, and don't imply moral value, which is a human construct, and sometimes very relative to culture and time period. Every time humanity has tried to derive moral value from scientific facts, it has gone horribly, horribly wrong.

The problem with these types of discussions is they devolve into semantics and infinite regress, eventually solipsism. I don't agree with Sam on a number of things, but I have a hard time disagreeing with Hitchens. Where is Hitchens wrong about religion? Religion makes a mockery out of learning, and it's followers are eager to wallow in ignorance and be led by anyone with the testicles to stand up and proclaim to be a messenger from god.

That's the thing about science and reason, even if you don't care to partake in the mental masturbation, you can still appreciate the cold efficiency of it, and take note that the "other side" will dart in and out of reason and science as it suits their real world needs with visits to doctors and such. Prayer is basically a kid's game.

Wouldn't it be nice if adults would grow out of it?

[midnightpulp]

The problem with these types of discussions is they devolve into semantics and infinite regress, eventually solipsism. I don't agree with Sam on a number of things, but I have a hard time disagreeing with Hitchens. Where is Hitchens wrong about religion? Religion makes a mockery out of learning, and it's followers are eager to wallow in ignorance and be led by anyone with the testicles to stand up and proclaim to be a messenger from god.

That's the thing about science and reason, even if you don't care to partake in the mental masturbation, you can still appreciate the cold efficiency of it, and take note that the "other side" will dart in and out of reason and science as it suits their real world needs with visits to doctors and such. Prayer is basically a kid's game.

Wouldn't it be nice if adults would grow out of it?

Hitchens is wrong because religion (at least the more mainstream ones) has never made a "mockery" out of learning. Like I told Horry Hipcheck, Hitchens and New Atheist Co. caricaturize religion (using the fundamentalist fringes of the religion in question) in order to demonize it. It's a propaganda tactic any reasonable person should dislike. Many of the first universities were established by religious orders. Monasteries were committed institutes of learning. They're dishonest in their approach and show a complete disregard of religion's (positive) role in building the modern world. They basically attack it because it's not "perfect." Neither is reason.

As for reason, again, how can you build a foundation for reason if absolute truth doesn't exist? Someone's "reason" is someone else's "irrationality." By appealing to scientific facts? How do you do that? And why would you want to do that? They tried at the turn of the century, and it led to such monstrous movements as eugenics and Social Darwinism. How can science "tell us" what is morally "right" in regards to the death penalty, animal rights, etc? A coldly rational moral philosophy is utilitarianism (any act is justified if it creates more total well being than suffering). I'm sure I don't have to elaborate on the potential pitfalls of that philosophy.

Humanity needs to grow out of dogmatism and thinking one way, and one way only (whether that ideology be reason, science, philosophy, or religion based) is the path to moral certainty, or at the very least, good moral behavior. You probably think I'm just defending religion in spite of science, but no, I see value in them all, and I think the valuable tenants of every one (although science is neutral and just a tool, but it doesn't stop people from appealing to it to build ideologies) should be emphasized and the negative tenants phased out. I see no problem with the Christian who visits the doctor but then turns to God in times of grief and metaphysical uncertainty (as I told you before, there's existential dilemmas that science can't satisfy). Hell, I actually see praying a more rational and healthy response to a death in the family than going on a drinking binge.

[Brazil]

:lol What's the deal with Poland ? why they become so radicals recently ? :cry I don't want Muslims in my country :cry They are all terrorists :cry

For the sake of it, in fact as far as I know all the identified terrorists had a file in the French anti terrorist section, they call that a S file to identify radicalized muslims... the issue is that there are 10,000 people with that file... what do we do ? we prevently arrest them ? Discussion right now in parlement would be a new law that would enable France to take down French nationality for people suspected to be radical... not gonna be easy to get through that tho

[Brazil]

This analysis is about as bad at it gets.
Apoplectic, go to the political section so the lobotomy can be performed.

in fact, apo is one of the few who is worth to be read on this topic, you can disagree with him of course but he knows his shit unlike 90% of the people in here who have no clue

[Mal]

:lol What's the deal with Poland ? why they become so radicals recently ? :cry I don't want Muslims in my country :cry They are all terrorists :cry

Where is your toleration about it ? Can`t you tolerate that we don`t want muslims ? Were does tolerantion ends ? If those are so valueable human beings, why you want to get rid of them ?




For the sake of it, in fact as far as I know all the identified terrorists had a file in the French anti terrorist section, they call that a S file to identify radicalized muslims... the issue is that there are 10,000 people with that file... what do we do ? we prevently arrest them ? Discussion right now in parlement would be a new law that would enable France to take down French nationality for people suspected to be radical... not gonna be easy to get through that tho

:lmao Don`t do shit, cause there are too many suspects :lmao

[Brazil]

Where is your toleration about it ? Can`t you tolerate that we don`t want muslims ? Were does tolerantion ends ? If those are so valueable human beings, why you want to get rid of them ?




:lmao Don`t do shit, cause there are too many suspects :lmao


Look bro, don't quote me anymore... you are not worth the time, your last two quote don't make any sense, your takes on this topic suck and I've never noticed anything worth the read about bb neither

have fun tho with your cute nazist agenda and with your internet tough guy persona