DAESH (ISIS) deliberately stains the image of Islam for Islamophobia's sake.

[Ghazi]

There is nothing religious or spiritual about this movement.

DAESH is a band of recruited thugs and mercenaries.

Funded and armed by the United States and its NATO/Arab allies.

Having people behead people "in the name of Islam" and burn people alive "in the name of Islam"

In 2007, Zionist Bush and the Saudis agreed that to spite Iran and Hezbollah's growing influence (following it's victory over Israel in 2006) they would bolster SUnni extremists.

The "moderate rebeles" turn around and either defect to ISIS or sell their weapons to ISIS.

Israel has always had influence over Middle East policy of America... in fact, the decision to invade Iraq in 2003 was due to Israel.

But Israel also wants regime change in Syria and Iran as well, and their approach about it in the Middle East has been through this proxy army of terrorists.

[apalisoc_9]

You got it all wrong again bro..
Deash does not give a shit about what any westerners think. All they're doing is trying to scare mankind into submission. Just look at what they are doing to Shias? They are bombing them out of existance and shias in the middle east right now have never been more scared. Heck, if you are sunni you better not talk shit about ISIL or you are going to get killed and branded as apostate.

Lets be real here, their scare tactic is doing wonders in the ME..theyre not going to move away from their bread and butter

[apalisoc_9]

Im telling you guys, drastic action against ISIS is going to be a major win for them..Thats what they are hoping to acheive here...bombing france is no different than bombing a school in syria for them

[Mal]

I hope Putin will nuke ISIS

[Stalin]

I hope Putin will nuke ISIS




:bobo

[Double-Up]

There is nothing religious or spiritual about this movement.

DAESH is a band of recruited thugs and mercenaries.

Funded and armed by the United States and its NATO/Arab allies.

Having people behead people "in the name of Islam" and burn people alive "in the name of Islam"

In 2007, Zionist Bush and the Saudis agreed that to spite Iran and Hezbollah's growing influence (following it's victory over Israel in 2006) they would bolster SUnni extremists.

The "moderate rebeles" turn around and either defect to ISIS or sell their weapons to ISIS.

Israel has always had influence over Middle East policy of America... in fact, the decision to invade Iraq in 2003 was due to Israel.

But Israel also wants regime change in Syria and Iran as well, and their approach about it in the Middle East has been through this proxy army of terrorists.

Iran's MERS news agency in full effect...fucking retard. :lol

[Molotov]

There is nothing religious or spiritual about this movement.

DAESH is a band of recruited thugs and mercenaries.

Funded and armed by the United States and its NATO/Arab allies.

Having people behead people "in the name of Islam" and burn people alive "in the name of Islam"

In 2007, Zionist Bush and the Saudis agreed that to spite Iran and Hezbollah's growing influence (following it's victory over Israel in 2006) they would bolster SUnni extremists.

The "moderate rebeles" turn around and either defect to ISIS or sell their weapons to ISIS.

Israel has always had influence over Middle East policy of America... in fact, the decision to invade Iraq in 2003 was due to Israel.

But Israel also wants regime change in Syria and Iran as well, and their approach about it in the Middle East has been through this proxy army of terrorists.




The fuck...you sound just like another weak minded delusional religious fanatic, you can't possibly be unaware that at the birth of islam, jihad was in effect, as in conversion by the sword, but carry on, I don't expect you to comprehend logic or facts.

[spurraider21]

Im telling you guys, drastic action against ISIS is going to be a major win for them..Thats what they are hoping to acheive here...bombing france is no different than bombing a school in syria for them
so u suggest we just sit around, let thing go around killing people, and just wait for them to get bored and stop?

[Donkeybong]

There is definitely something fishy about this whole thing. What exactly is ISIS trying to accomplish with these acts in Paris? To inspire fear in the hearts of the Western people? I don't buy that bullshit. This isn't some moral victory for them, because the obvious response would be a joint coalition from the Western powers and put them in the crosshairs.

[Ghazi]

Molotov, I've read about the history of Islam, and you're just spewing generic propaganda.

ISIS used verse 59:2 to justify this act on one of their sites... in no way can that verse be deciphered as a free pass to slaughter innocent civilians and commit suicide... it is a verse referencing the expulsion of a Jewish tribe from Medina after they collaborated with the Pagans against Islam.

[spurraider21]

Marg Bar Ghazi

[Ghazi]

MARG BAR DAESH

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Using terrorism to justify terrorism. Typical...

[Clipper Nation]

Bull-fucking-shit.

665562760760160256

[Molotov]

Molotov, I've read about the history of Islam, and you're just spewing generic propaganda.

ISIS used verse 59:2 to justify this act on one of their sites... in no way can that verse be deciphered as a free pass to slaughter innocent civilians and commit suicide... it is a verse referencing the expulsion of a Jewish tribe from Medina after they collaborated with the Pagans against Islam.




Scrah, Im giving you historic facts, you giving me verses. :lol

[DMC]

ISIS is hoping for the caliphate, and they won't be satisfied until the group of wealthy folks funding them are in power. That's how all radical movements work, and even the less radical ones. It's always about money and power, never about religion... never. Imagine you are the new prophet, how much power you would wield in the ME.

The RCC did the same thing but back then it was just normal shit. Now they have the Vatican city and the Pope is God lite. That's what radical groups want in the Muslim world.

[unleashbaynes]

Fuck Muslims.

[HemisfairArena]

Grab your popcorn, kiddos,,,this is gonna get interesting now. I cant wait for the ruthless mercenaries known as the French foreign legion to go after these ass clowns,,,this wont be like the bleeding hearts here who think waterboarding is inhumane and we shouldn't do that to these fine humans of radical islam,,,the French foreign legion will not only go after the men but the women and children too just to make a point,,,

[Ghazi]

Scrah, Im giving you historic facts, you giving me verses. :lol

you didnt give any facts, Islam being a religion of the sword is just a media myth

[spurraider21]

wow... molotov taking a wet shit on ghazi and his agenda

:cheer

[Ghazi]

Molotov didn't give any facts even though he said he would.

[apalisoc_9]

so u suggest we just sit around, let thing go around killing people, and just wait for them to get bored and stop?

No i suggest they stop carpet bombing civilians. Isis made a statement that it was retribution. They are out of their mind. Another airstrike and its going to be another attack. If they leave the ME...things would be safer.for us.

[Molotov]

wow... molotov taking a wet shit on ghazi and his agenda

:cheer



:lol:lol

[spurraider21]

No i suggest they stop carpet bombing civilians. Isis made a statement that it was retribution. They are out of their mind. Another airstrike and its going to be another attack. If they leave the ME...things would be safer.for us.
so what should the US do in response to ISIS? just leave the middle east and sit on their hands, hoping they go away?

[TDMVPDPOY]

so when is the next crusades fellas?

[apalisoc_9]

so what should the US do in response to ISIS? just leave the middle east and sit on their hands, hoping they go away?

Tighten nation security and gtfo of the middle east. Seems like an easy solution to me. ISIS is the one responsing here, not the other way around. Their whole mosguided existance is based is a response.

[apalisoc_9]

The one think nation should start doing is start taking control of the online media even more. I was a huge fan of the government taking a significant step towards online monitoring because that's where all these radicalized muslims come from...99% of them are young morons.

Id even go a step further and start closing down potential sites where ISIS can communicate on a global scale...but we know that never going to happen.

[spurraider21]

Tighten nation security and gtfo of the middle east. Seems like an easy solution to me. ISIS is the one responsing here, not the other way around. Their whole mosguided existance is based is a response.
so the US should just leave the middle east and sit on their hands, hoping ISIS just goes away. k

[apalisoc_9]

so the US should just leave the middle east and sit on their hands, hoping ISIS just goes away. k

And why does the US need to bother with middle eastern problems again? Last i check all radicals are result of hating forgin intervention... but hey lets intervene again and bomb the living shit out lf the middle east. ISIS isnt kidding around. Every ISIS civilian killed in their territory is getting retribution..they will butcher sunni, shia, non-muslims if a single drop of ISIS civilian is killed ( civilians living under ISIS rule)...go check out Saudi Arabia, Lebanon and other "stable" middle eastern country. The moment they do strike ISIS, a mosque in their land is going to explode.

Dont feed the fire. Let it die out

[spurraider21]

you could just say "yes" when i ask my question :lol

you think the US should just sit on its hands and just hope isis goes away

[Ghazi]

How to stop DAESH: cut off their funding.

Unfortunately, the backers of DAESH are all in bed with the United States (Turkey, Qatar, Saudi Arabia)

Saudi Arabia has propped up DAESH as to spite Iran and Hezbolloh, also to benefit their Zionist friends.

It's not as simple as simply bombing them, although at this point, I'd say bombing DAESH controlled oil fields would be a + since they make over $1million a day off of them.

[spurraider21]

:lmao Pig Fuckers

https://i.gyazo.com/232ca1b8f59dc52ee1cef8df988b45b5.png

[Biernutz]

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb270/systime/72_zpsuqbpf758.jpg

[DMC]

If the victimized, misunderstood masses of the Islamic world really gave a shit, they would handle this business themselves. After all, it's their religion that's being exploited. Instead, they act like it's a fringe benefit to get guys to attack the ROW, because it grants them that "fuck you" feeling while preserving their plausible deniability.

All this "marg bar" shit really just means what just happened, death to whomever. When it unfolds, those who were singing the chorus suddenly fall silent and hope no one noticed, but you can bet they did.

[spurraider21]

https://www.funker530.com/two-views-one-airstrike-aa-team-takes-a-direct-hit/

[Blue Duck]

The only "radical" muslims are the ones who can actually live in peace in the civilized, modern world and accept a constitution that places available emphasis on individual liberty as opposed to prehistoric, tribal, backwards, oppressive system known as sharia. Ghazi, you starting these threads is ridiculous and disrespectful and blaming Israel just shows that you are as insane as every other muslin and that none of you are ready to take your place alongside the civilized people of the world who have emerged from the dark ages. Trust me, I'm very familiar with the entire history of the conflict and Israel has never been the problem, they are a nation of civilized laws. You want facts, ghazi? Here's one, 99%of the world's problems would disappear with the extinction of that backwards, retarded, idiotic religion and these shit holes are only relevant because they happen to be located atop a commodity that they had no clue how to exploit or refine without western technology and influence. Stop posting this crap.

[Killakobe81]

The only "radical" muslims are the ones who can actually live in peace in the civilized, modern world and accept a constitution that places available emphasis on individual liberty as opposed to prehistoric, tribal, backwards, oppressive system known as sharia. Ghazi, you starting these threads is ridiculous and disrespectful and blaming Israel just shows that you are as insane as every other muslin and that none of you are ready to take your place alongside the civilized people of the world who have emerged from the dark ages. Trust me, I'm very familiar with the entire history of the conflict and Israel has never been the problem, they are a nation of civilized laws. You want facts, ghazi? Here's one, 99%of the world's problems would disappear with the extinction of that backwards, retarded, idiotic religion and these shit holes are only relevant because they happen to be located atop a commodity that they had no clue how to exploit or refine without western technology and influence. Stop posting this crap.

Damn.

[apalisoc_9]

If the victimized, misunderstood masses of the Islamic world really gave a shit, they would handle this business themselves. After all, it's their religion that's being exploited. Instead, they act like it's a fringe benefit to get guys to attack the ROW, because it grants them that "fuck you" feeling while preserving their plausible deniability.

All this "marg bar" shit really just means what just happened, death to whomever. When it unfolds, those who were singing the chorus suddenly fall silent and hope no one noticed, but you can bet they did.

Great post. Ive been saying this for years. So Muslims are oppressed so why in the world are arab reaching out to the west? Its fucking stupid.

[Blue Duck]

Follow the money.

[Ghazi]

:lmao at the troll Blue Duck, 99% of the worlds problems are due to Islam.

Israel by itself is a cancer and bigger problem than radical Islam. Israel illegally occupies territories since 1967, performed terrorist acts before 1948 against the British, elected the leader of one of those terrorist organizations (Irgun) as future Prime Minister Mencahem Begin, plunders and raids the Golan, and killed 2500 people and 500 children in the Summer of 2014. Just because the Zionist media doesn't cover it, doesn't change the fact.

Israel is a cancer

[Ghazi]

Islam is the pure form of monotheistic worship, its fundamentals and foundations have far less flaws than the man-centered Christianity.

[spurraider21]

:lol propaghazi

[Double-Up]

:lol propaghazi

He needs to quit bumping this shitty thread...:lol

[illmatic]

The only "radical" muslims are the ones who can actually live in peace in the civilized, modern world and accept a constitution that places available emphasis on individual liberty as opposed to prehistoric, tribal, backwards, oppressive system known as sharia. Ghazi, you starting these threads is ridiculous and disrespectful and blaming Israel just shows that you are as insane as every other muslin and that none of you are ready to take your place alongside the civilized people of the world who have emerged from the dark ages. Trust me, I'm very familiar with the entire history of the conflict and Israel has never been the problem, they are a nation of civilized laws. You want facts, ghazi? Here's one, 99%of the world's problems would disappear with the extinction of that backwards, retarded, idiotic religion and these shit holes are only relevant because they happen to be located atop a commodity that they had no clue how to exploit or refine without western technology and influence. Stop posting this crap.

+1

[illmatic]

Islam is the pure form of monotheistic worship, its fundamentals and foundations have far less flaws than the man-centered Christianity.

except for the fact that muslims have contributed to over 27,000 terrorists acts since 9/11, whereas, radical christians have contributed to how many?

[Ghazi]

those "Muslims" have Western background nt and dont know the slightest thing about true Islam. IBlame the CIA and Mossad and other intelligence agencies

[Ghazi]

Bottom line is, Islam is far less flawed than Christianity, which is essentially the worship of a man

[Ghazi]

Exactly what West and terrorists want: for Islam to be associated with violence and terror. Eben ani-Islam websit s go as far as to make up Hadiths and skew the Quran to promote this monstrous myth

[UNT Eagles 2016]

except for the fact that muslims have contributed to over 27,000 terrorists acts since 9/11, whereas, radical christians have contributed to how many?
like maybe 100-200

[apalisoc_9]

Exactly what West and terrorists want: for Islam to be associated with violence and terror. Eben ani-Islam websit s go as far as to make up Hadiths and skew the Quran to promote this monstrous myth

I fully agree with this though. Islam is the new communism

[Blue Duck]

Ghazi calling out Christians for worshipping a man? ????? How often do Christians justify killing sprees by a perceived insult of that man? You're an idiot pretending to be smarter than everyone else and I honestly do not like to insult people on the Internet and I don't take it lightly. This is a sports forum and I comes here to get away from all the vile and twisted nonsense and the misery caused by the other members of your cult. I pray for every victim of Muslim terror and for their families. Stop dishonoring the memories of the innocent victims of this plague of locusts.

[hater]

Iran is a pretty advanced society tbh. They even allow other religions to live there peacefully.

And if you wanna mention Irans Hezbollah, I mention USA's mujahedin in Afghanistan, or jihadists in the Balkans. Every major power possesses their own mercenary armies nowadays. Yes including aisrael.

[hater]

Ppl sem to forget Al Qaeda was founded by the CIA and modern jihadist ideology engineered at Langley

[Warlord23]

If the victimized, misunderstood masses of the Islamic world really gave a shit, they would handle this business themselves. After all, it's their religion that's being exploited. Instead, they act like it's a fringe benefit to get guys to attack the ROW, because it grants them that "fuck you" feeling while preserving their plausible deniability.

All this "marg bar" shit really just means what just happened, death to whomever. When it unfolds, those who were singing the chorus suddenly fall silent and hope no one noticed, but you can bet they did.

Solid post.

Ghazi, mainstream Muslims seem to have this knee-jerk reaction of playing the victim and blaming the CIA, Israel, the West etc. However, no Muslim nation has introspected and corrected some obvious, glaring problems that plague their societies. Off the top of my head, there are a few things that "moderate" Muslim countries should do if they are serious about tackling extremism:

1. Forbid madrassas from admitting children before the age of 16. Madrassas are purely religious schools that are appropriate for people who want to become preachers - there is no reason to have 5-year old children specialize in religious lessons when they don't even have a basic educational foundation. Religious studies should be no different from other specializations (medicine, engineering, accounting etc) which are offered only after students are instructed in a common curriculum.

2. Review all educational instruction (especially madrassa instruction) for material that goes against basic human rights principles. Muslims are taught that they are superior to the kufr/infidels, and that they have a duty to convert the latter. This is a slippery slope and is one of the reasons why young Muslims are relatively more supportive of extremism than older Muslims. Children should be taught that all humans are equal, albeit with different beliefs. Shut down madrassas that teach hate.

3. Stop romanticizing the idea of the Caliphate/khilafat. It is beyond stupid for any national government to encourage its citizens to believe that it (the government) is inferior to a supra-national Caliphate. All it does is undermine the government's authority and lead to groups like ISIS, Al Qaeda and Taliban. Citizens should be encouraged to love and value their own country, not some religious empire from centuries ago.

4. Sunni countries should tell Saudi Arabia to take its wahabi/salafi brand of Islam and GTFO. Saudi Arabia has invested big money in opening mosques across countries and spreading its dangerous brand of Islam. A good example is Pakistan, where the population has become more conservative and extreme than it was 50 years ago.

Each of these ideas will help these countries, irrespective of what Israel and the CIA are up to.

[Blake]

Marg bar Christian David Robinson> Muslim Hakeem Olajuwon

[Blue Duck]

Look, all of you guys are making very interesting points regarding this topic and I understand that y'all have educated yourselves on the historical events that have led to this conflict. I get it. But it's this constructive in terms of understanding the situation as it stands right now? I understand that the U.S. CIA helped to create AL Queda/Mujahadin but to what end? It was to stop the soviets. What's done is done. As a society, Americans are tolerant and reflection respectful of one another and others. We get so caught up in issues that are fabricated by progressives that we vilify small town pizza parlor owners who are trapped into admitting that they would rather not cater a gay wedding. But those people would never advocate violence against homosexuals, they just want to be left alone. Muslims are different. When the KKK was at the height of their power, and terrorizing innocent black people throughout the south, not everyone put on the hood and went out into the night to commit these atrocities, some just stood by in silent support. We have no problem admitting that they were wrong. So called " moderate muslims" don't necessarily have to engage in terrorist activities to demonstrate their support. By and large they show their support, often very openly. It is the same brand of evil, only on a much larger scale. I'll ask you all to watch the video of an entire stadium full of Turkish fans booing a moment of silence for the French victims of the most recent attack then chanting Allah u Akbar in unison. This took place before a "friendly" international soccer match. The world our children will inherit will be a much different place then there one we grew up in if we don't stand together in support and defense of liberty in defiance if islamofaschism.

[hater]

CIA usage of Al Qaeda did not end after Soviet retreat.

CIA kept using Al Qaeda during the 90s in the Balkans. They would even fly Al Qaeda commanders (including Al-Zawahiri) for terrorist missions in the Balkans. on NATO planes btw

Now Israel and US are using Al Nusra (al qaeda in Syria) to wage war on Assad and ISIS.

Iraq was a huge domino, but Libya was another great one. One by one countries are being set ablaze and after the fire, being filled with jihadists. Arabian States along with NATO help(specially turkey) have been assisting relocating weapons and mercenaries between the countries. as they please

There is countless evidence of weapons and mercenaries arriving in Syria from Libya, as well as even chartered commercial airliners filled with jihadists landing in Yemen(which has a no-fly zone btw)

All this of course doesn't have 1 iota to do with a religion.

[Ghazi]

Most peoples complaints about Islam are duento the Wahhabist / Salafist brand. Saudis use their oil $ to fund schools and spread their backward ideas and they are best friends with the United States. This is so obvious for anyone to see the connection between Salafist Islamic terrorism and Saudi Arabia and the United States and Israel. blue duck is just a miserable salty fuck whose been surfing anti-Islam websites and doesnt know the slightest bot about the actual religion of Islam.

[RD2191]

so the US should just leave the middle east and sit on their hands, hoping ISIS just goes away. k
And the problem with that is?

[Ghazi]

The thing about Islam is a lot of Muslims themselves dont understand the true messgae and basic essence and qualities of this religion. I have read the Quran numerous times, when you undersrand the book in its context and the meanings and subleties and history behind the versesnit is easy to appreciate. Otherwise some may open the book and say "omg it says to kill non-Muslims!" ... to answer: no it does not if you understand The Book.. if you wanna use it for impure agendas like the West and the Salafists do then it can be skewed. Verse 3:7 even foretells that some men will use allegorical aspects of the book for their own sakes and interests.

[hater]

in 1999 American support for al-Qaeda’s allies in Kosovo, the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), led to a controversial NATO bombing campaign.

Some members of the Kosovo Liberation Army, which has financed its war effort through the sale of heroin, were trained in terrorist camps run by international fugitive Osama bin Laden — who is wanted in the 1998 bombing of two U.S. embassies in Africa that killed 224 persons, including 12 Americans.

According to former DEA agent Michael Levine, the decision of Clinton to back the KLA dismayed his DEA contacts who knew it to be a major drug-trafficking organization.

Another link to bin Laden is the fact that the brother of a leader in an Egyptian Djihad organization and also a military commander of Usama bin Laden, was leading an elite KLA unit during the Kosovo conflict. [This is almost certainly Zaiman or Mohammed al-Zawahiri, one of the brothers of Ayman al-Zawahiri.]

American intelligence agents have admitted they helped to train the Kosovo Liberation Army before Nato’s bombing of Yugoslavia. The disclosure angered some European diplomats, who said this had undermined moves for a political solution to the conflict between Serbs and Albanians. Central Intelligence Agency officers were ceasefire monitors in Kosovo in 1998 and 1999, developing ties with the KLA and giving American military training manuals and field advice on fighting the Yugoslav army and Serbian police.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-us-al-qaeda-alliance-bosnia-kosovo-and-now-libya-washington-s-on-going-collusion-with-terrorists/25829


all this brings us to the big question. Why did Al Qaeda attack US in 2001?? Only 3 possible options: AQ betrayed the CIA, CIA betrayed AQ and AQ retaliated or?????

[spurraider21]

And the problem with that is?
it involves a lot of wishful thinking. then again, i think putin's ego is big enough where he'd be willing to go balls deep... so i wouldn't be opposed to sitting around as he wastes his own men/money

[hater]

Lmao Putin just said hell bomb the terrorists at the airport or at the toilet, wherever they are :lol

[Blue Duck]

I'm not a miserable salty fuck, whatever that means and I don't surf websites to get my information, I work in a job that requires that I understand what's going on in the world on an international scale. The involvement of our government in shaggy affairs in the middle east had been well documented and I get all of that and we can enter into a discourse about what led to the current state forever, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the changing tides of the mindset of the populous, not governments. Look, whatever bad things our government is involved in, the citizens of this country, those that pay attention, are opposed to it. You said it yourself, "many muslims" don't get it. Well, in my opinion, it's waaaaaaaaaaay too many and it's growing. Whatever you feel, you will never convince me that committing acts of terror and brutality against an unsuspecting, innocent population is justifiable. Many of these people have no idea what's going on, they're just trying to live their lives the best way they can and get by in the world. But when their suffering is openly mocked by millions who claim your religion, then the problem exists in YOUR community, the Muslim community. Powerful empires have been brought to their knees and atrocities exposed through peaceful protest and subsequent exposure and understanding. Terrorism is never, ever justified, I do not care what our covert agencies and shadow governments are engaged in. If valuing human life makes me a "miserable salty fuck" then fine. I will never see terrorism as a viable option for political redress, ever.

[hater]

If you don't care about your governments terrorist acts and turn a blind eye then you are a terrorist yourself as well tbh.

[Blue Duck]

Are you serious? That's not what I said, anyways. Look, let me make it simple. If I don't agree with Putin's aggression in the Ukraine, can I solve the problem by blowing up a Russian orthodox church on Chicago's east side? Your logic is ridiculous. As if there is nothing in between "turning a blind eye" and response through the senseless slaughter of innocents. I am aware that all bad governments commit atrocities. Killing the people governed by those entities is an unjustifiable act of cruelty. Since I'm a terrorist in your view for turning a blind eye, what are you? Cmon man, there is no justification for blowing up an 8 year old boy sitting on a curbside watching the Boston Marathon no matter what the CIA has done. That's not turning a blind eye, that's just reason. Your mindset on this topic is disturbing.

[hater]

Um I never said the solution is violence against the government or the governments civilians tbh

My point is, if your are going to blame an entire religion on the violent acts of a few of them. Are we all not to blame for the acts of our own government?

[DMC]

Islam is the pure form of monotheistic worship, its fundamentals and foundations have far less flaws than the man-centered Christianity.
This is absolutely true. Islam is not diluted by 500 different denominations and world views. The radical aspect isn't far from the far left of the religion. This means the entire religion is cancerous and needs to be eradicated. You cannot claim that a rogue group did this or that since the religion itself cannot be distorted. It's all part and parcel of Islam, which is a mass delusion that dick rode Christianity by having some illiterate desert faggot receive word from Allah instead of some Jewish faggot. Either way it's still Israel vs Palestine, and no one else really gives a flying fuck.

[DMC]

Um I never said the solution is violence against the government or the governments civilians tbh

My point is, if your are going to blame an entire religion on the violent acts of a few of them. Are we all not to blame for the acts of our own government?

Watch that slippery slope. We are not our own government, hell most of us don't even vote. We are born into a society that is governed by elites, and it's been out of our control since inception. Religion is a practice, an individual choice. It's like saying you're a gang member but you don't agree with what the gang did, it's just out of your control. You signed up, you still pay dues, you're still a member. You are then by default responsible. Cops are responsible for the shitty things cops do. If cops are heavy handed, it reflects on all of them. That's what "reflects" means. Shitty governments don't reflect shitty citizens, else the people of North Korea are all fucking nuts instead of captive prisoners under a radical regime.

Since Chumpy posts here and you post here, aren't you and Chumpy of the same mindset? Aren't you responsible for his posts as well?

[dbestpro]

There is a point where we are nearing which will call for peaceful Muslims to make a choice or risk being caught in the crossfire. That choice has to be definitive, and expressed loudly, and clear.

[Blue Duck]

It is not just a few of them, that's progressive liberal hippy nonsense bullshit. And initially, I was not just talking about terrorism, I'm talking about the barbarism of sharia as well, which most of the Muslim world wilfully accepts and adheres to. Dude, are you just being intentionally antagonistic or do you believe what you're saying? For God's sake, these acts of brutality are celebrated by millions like they're partying on new years eve. It's very public, very brazen and more hateful than anything I've ever seen. Dude, when the Comanche was pissed off at the white man's government, they butchered farmers that had no clue what was going on, and they were stone aged. That's terrorism in a nut shell and IT IS NOT JUST A FEW, TRUST ME!!!!!!

[Blue Duck]

Oh, and by the way, very well thought out and well articulated point by DMC. not sarcasm, I agree

[apalisoc_9]

Ignorance grows with pride.

[apalisoc_9]

Ignorance grows with pride.

Blue duck is ignorant. Cant seem to debate and argue without spewing bs..

I am always against Ghazi in this situation.

Post on you main tbh

[apalisoc_9]

There is a point where we are nearing which will call for peaceful Muslims to make a choice or risk being caught in the crossfire. That choice has to be definitive, and expressed loudly, and clear.

They have no chioce, they been caught in the crossfire long time ago. a million has died since sadam was executed

[Stalin]

Lmao Putin just said hell bomb the terrorists at the airport or at the toilet, wherever they are :lol




:bobo

[InTheCrust]

But when their suffering is openly mocked by millions who claim your religion, then the problem exists in YOUR community, the Muslim community.

I was dawdling around in these posts, but this specifically stood out to me (nothing else did tbh). I'm a Muslim myself, and this is what pisses me off the most of the Muslim masses; the ignorance is unbelievable. And it's only going to get worse, tbh.

It could be combatted from within the community, but that's going to take a Herculean effort at least. It comes through education. The stuff Ghazi is spewing is mostly conspiracy theorist nonsense, and I largely do not trust his basic understanding of Islam, but I agree with him that there is a lack of understanding both inside and outside. Exactly what is correct is always going to be a point of contention, no matter what.

Islam does have sects and denominations, contrary to what some others in this thread have said. But their divisions haven't reached the epic, theological mess that Christianity is in (yet). For now, the best that Muslims who have not deviated to extremist ideologies is educate internally from a basic understanding of Islam. That's what's missing in most of these people's lives, even the disheveled and disenfranchised soldiers who have been brainwashed. Then the misunderstood excerpts can be addressed.

Now let me go back to my hoops, I'm done with this.

[Ghazi]

I understand Islam as it ought to be understood: a code and way of life and ethics to raise ones moral integrity.

[DMC]

I understand Islam as it ought to be understood: a code and way of life and ethics to raise ones moral integrity.
And pay for handjobs from whores and hookers.

[Ghazi]

:sleep bringing up stuff from nearly a decade ago.

[apalisoc_9]

:sleep bringing up stuff from nearly a decade ago.

Why are you suddenly supportive of Islam teaching? I swear in your peak, you disliked Islam. Pretty remarkable how a religion full of negative attention still is growing at a ridiculos rate.

Im worried about you though? What changed you?

[Ghazi]

All the anti-Islam propaganda on TV, and fake ass Muslims (DAESH, Wahhabist Saudi Arabia) , and all the anti-Islam and anti-Muhammad websites which doctor hadiths and misinterpret and slander the verses of teh Quran just fr their agenda caused me to do a thorough investigation on authentic Islamic sources to reach the truth. I have read the Quran and understand it completely. Only an IDIOT can read that book and go out and do some of the things DAESH does.

I've read even DAESH magazine. DABIQ... it is nonsense the filth they spew on there, an apocalyptic vision of Muslims v the West even though the WEST IS THE ONES SUPPLYING THEM. DAESH is not even stronger than the Syrian Army yet acts like its up against the world... these guys have no religious or spiritual aspect to them, it's just a political militant group funded by the West and the Arabs to undermine Hezbollah, Syria, Iran, and Russia.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

I read an English copy of the Qu'ran at a Barnes & Noble's when I was 13.

The main things that pisses me off about Islam are its avid support of polygamy and the kind of man that Muhammad was... if he was this great guy who led by rhetoric instead of by violence, who married and stayed faithful to one woman rather than taking underage girls as brides, who preached marital fidelity and strict monogamy, as well as peace and harmony between all religions and cultures... I'd probably have considered converting to Islam. (Other than the fact I think it's ridiculous to believe in and pray not once but FIVE times every single day to a fake creative guy in the sky.)

[Ghazi]

Muhammad was monogamous toward Khadijah. Aisha was not underage as anti-Islam sites like to claim and Muhammad was by no means violent even though he had some military campaigns against warmongering Arab tribes and treacherous Arab Jews.

[Buddy Mignon]

I read an English copy of the Qu'ran at a Barnes & Noble's when I was 13.

The main things that pisses me off about Islam are its avid support of polygamy and the kind of man that Muhammad was... if he was this great guy who led by rhetoric instead of by violence, who married and stayed faithful to one woman rather than taking underage girls as brides, who preached marital fidelity and strict monogamy, as well as peace and harmony between all religions and cultures... I'd probably have considered converting to Islam. (Other than the fact I think it's ridiculous to believe in and pray not once but FIVE times every single day to a fake creative guy in the sky.)

I was chasing pussy at 13...:lol

[Dirk Oneanddoneski]

Hey Ghazi what is the punishment for leaving Islam in Iran?

[Buddy Mignon]

I read an English copy of the Qu'ran at a Barnes & Noble's when I was 13.

The main things that pisses me off about Islam are its avid support of polygamy and the kind of man that Muhammad was... if he was this great guy who led by rhetoric instead of by violence, who married and stayed faithful to one woman rather than taking underage girls as brides, who preached marital fidelity and strict monogamy, as well as peace and harmony between all religions and cultures... I'd probably have considered converting to Islam. (Other than the fact I think it's ridiculous to believe in and pray not once but FIVE times every single day to a fake creative guy in the sky.)

Polygamy didn't start with Islam, but Muslims have done a decent job trying to address the natural occurrence of the female being the default sex. How would you address the imbalance of male/female birth rate?

[Ghazi]

The reason apostasy was punishable by death back then was because Muhammad and his followers were not only a spiritual brothers, but also a political/military force as well. Apostasy back then essentially applied treason, which has severe punishments everywhere in the world today. Regarding polygamy, it was far from uncommon during tribal Arabia back then and many other cultures. but Quran says if you cannot treat multiple wives equally then stick to one..

[Ghazi]

Its as if people think Islam tells women to stay at home and bear children, that simply is not the case. Nothing in the Quran subjugated women to this. It should be known globally up until this century women were viewed as "babymakers" due to thr low life expectancy. Essentially women were groomed from motherhood at an earlier age. Times have changed. The misogyny evident in parts of the Islamic world is not reflective of Islam in its pure form

[Ghazi]

Some will point to inheritance laws laid out in Quran where women would get half what men get.. again this is due to the structure of tribal Arabia at the time where men were the primary breadmakers, and had to pay dowries in order to get married anyway.

[DJR210]

Fuck Muslims.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Polygamy didn't start with Islam, but Muslims have done a decent job trying to address the natural occurrence of the female being the default sex. How would you address the imbalance of male/female birth rate?
WTF? It's 50/50 bro

[apalisoc_9]

The reason apostasy was punishable by death back then was because Muhammad and his followers were not only a spiritual brothers, but also a political/military force as well. Apostasy back then essentially applied treason, which has severe punishments everywhere in the world today. Regarding polygamy, it was far from uncommon during tribal Arabia back then and many other cultures. but Quran says if you cannot treat multiple wives equally then stick to one..

That's still a sharia practice. Apostasy is still punishable by death.

POLYGAMY is allowed in Islam but discourgaed. Unless you are a high level caliber individual, islam says to stay away from it...but we know this is exploited by the rich al sauds.

[Ghazi]

Its like impossible to legitimately try someone for apostasy. daesh has killed some with charges of apostasy but theyre just scumbags and dont do proper trial and jury. Its moot.

[Blue Duck]

Look ghazi, this thread just keeps going, and it's evident that your only intention is to explain your knowledge of this text to increase awareness, and that's commendable. I can respect that. If I misjudged your thread initially, it's due only to the empathy I felt toward the victims and the anger over much of the mocking of then that occurred subsequent to the attack, by the Muslim community. However, I do have a question, and it is a serious one. According to your interpretation, Islam is peaceful and sublime, however, the founders and leaders of these groups such as ISIS, AL Queda, Hamas, etc interpret the Koran very differently, and many of then have devoted their entire lives to studying this religion and earning various advanced degrees in religious studies. How can any of us really claim to know more about this religion than these men; those who advocate violence and brutality citing the Koran, which they have examined and studied for years, as the source of their inspiration? This question is not meant to insight, the question is valid, it is not an ignorant question and deserves an honest answer.

[apalisoc_9]

Its like impossible to legitimately try someone for apostasy. daesh has killed some with charges of apostasy but theyre just scumbags and dont do proper trial and jury. Its moot.
Pretty sure deah declares apostacy to shias and even sunni who disagree with them. This is evident with all the bombing agaist shias and with the burning of the jordanian pilot.

The blame is on the idiots who join them though. Mostly people filled with emotions and idiots. I dont doubt that Israel benefits heavily from having ISIS in the middle east though.

[apalisoc_9]

Look ghazi, this thread just keeps going, and it's evident that your only intention is to explain your knowledge of this text to increase awareness, and that's commendable. I can respect that. If I misjudged your thread initially, it's due only to the empathy I felt toward the victims and the anger over much of the mocking of then that occurred subsequent to the attack, by the Muslim community. However, I do have a question, and it is a serious one. According to your interpretation, Islam is peaceful and sublime, however, the founders and leaders of these groups such as ISIS, AL Queda, Hamas, etc interpret the Koran very differently, and many of then have devoted their entire lives to studying this religion and earning various advanced degrees in religious studies. How can any of us really claim to know more about this religion than these men; those who advocate violence and brutality citing the Koran, which they have examined and studied for years, as the source of their inspiration? This question is not meant to insight, the question is valid, it is not an ignorant question and deserves an honest answer.

Very basic understanding. Both shias and sunni rely on respected scholars to make fatwas. Both Sunni and Shia Scholars consider them unislamic. These groups have legit no respected scholar supporting them. Zero.

The media wont tell you that though.

What the west needs to do is increase their civilian monitoring. The government hardly does anything to combat all the isis radicalization that is happening online.

[Ghazi]

Osama Bin Laden and Abu BAkr al Baghdadi are religious experts? That's news to me. These type of "experts" use an extremely loose/fraudulent interpretation of Islam for their own/political agendas. It's political militant Islam. Western governments have a say in the rise of Daesh, the CIA and Pakistani Intelligence created Al Quada, and the Wahhabists in Saudi Arabia have been accused of doctoring hadiths (Prophetic Traditions) to justify their sharia/other policies. In any religion, ignorance and greed is going to corrupt some school of thoughts. The same is true in politics as well, where you have otherwise intelligent men either flat out lying or having ridiculous takes

[illmatic]

Its like impossible to legitimately try someone for apostasy. daesh has killed some with charges of apostasy but theyre just scumbags and dont do proper trial and jury. Its moot.

it's not illegitimate to try a bitch for committing adultery and stoning her to death in your shit that you call a religion. fuck islam.

[Ghazi]

So adultery is a good thing? Back then adultert was a huge deal when these laws were revealed. in tribal Arabia especially..adultery was punishable by stoning in The Torah as well.

[apalisoc_9]

Adultery is rewarded today with 50 of your income :lol

[Joseph Kony]

fucking towel head still beating his (likely) hairy, flea and sand infested chest over his super awesome fairly tale book about made up bullshit. shut the fuck up already sand n!gger

[Ghazi]

^ cool story bro. Imam Ali "I never won an argument against an ignorant man"

[Ghazi]

And the servants of the Beneficient God are they who walk on the earth in humbleness, and when the ignorant address them, they say: Peace (Quran 25:63)

[Molotov]

fucking towel head still beating his (likely) hairy, flea and sand infested chest over his super awesome fairly tale book about made up bullshit. shut the fuck up already sand n!gger



Co sign

[Joseph Kony]

"one does not simply walk into mordor."

-boromir

[phyzik]

4LBpmPXv1R4

[Molotov]

4LBpmPXv1R4




:wow:wow Islam ethered.

[Pelicans78]

So adultery is a good thing? Back then adultert was a huge deal when these laws were revealed. in tribal Arabia especially..adultery was punishable by stoning in The Torah as well.

But the Koran doesn't mentioning stoning for adultry. Tell me the actual punishment.

[Pelicans78]

Its like impossible to legitimately try someone for apostasy. daesh has killed some with charges of apostasy but theyre just scumbags and dont do proper trial and jury. Its moot.

The Koran doesn't mention death for apostates. Tell me what it mentions as the real punishment.

[apalisoc_9]

The Koran doesn't mention death for apostates. Tell me what it mentions as the real punishment.

Islam is not based on the quran alone. Hadith plays a huge both in shia and sunni islam to deny hadith is to deny religion..That goes both ways for shias and Sunnis

[phyzik]

:wow:wow Islam ethered.

While I mainly go after Christianity since it is the predominate oppressive religious force in America, I can and will expose any religion. After all, they all justify their beliefs based off of fairy tails and non-sense.

It is obvious I am an atheist.... And yet, I probably know more about anyone's religion (or, at the very least, their shitty book) here on this site.

I dont do youtube video's myself because people like the guy in the video I posted describe my point of view much better than I ever could.

[Pelicans78]

Islam is not based on the quran alone. Hadith plays a huge both in shia and sunni islam to deny hadith is to deny religion..That goes both ways for shias and Sunnis

Maybe that's the problem.

[Ghazi]

100 lashes in the Quran for adultery. But Muhammad did sanction stoning at times for adultery

[hater]

Lol retards thinking the fairy tale book is the problem. Nobody lifts a finger without money/power involved. Not even for the unicorns in the book.

In other words. Even if there are tons of unicorn believing shitheads, that don't mean shut unless a powerful organization, such as CIA wants to use them for something.

The proof is right there. Although these guys believed in this nonsense for centuries, organized jihadism against the West didn't start until CIA got involved in Afghanistan.

These retards are just puppets.

[hater]

Blaming the fairy tale religions for these highly trained and funded mercenary organizations is like blaming the dead body parts for the Frankenstein monster.

No Dr. Frankenenstein, no monster. In this case the Dr. Is the CIA/US/Saudi.

[Pelicans78]

100 lashes in the Quran for adultery. But Muhammad did sanction stoning at times for adultery

If God says in the Koran that it's 100 lashes, why would Muhammad go against the word of God and sanction stoning?

[apalisoc_9]

If God says in the Koran that it's 100 lashes, why would Muhammad go against the word of God and sanction stoning?

Two kinds of unlawful sex. Adultery is stoning. Premartial sex is lashes. If an unmarried individual has sex with a married one, the former is lashes the latter is stoning.

However, you need 4 witnesses who were there and saw the people having sex for punishment to happen. That or both individuals admit..but admitting sin in islam is forbiden so the one that does have.committed two. Admitting sin and fornicating.

There was a man who comitted adultery in muhammad time that muhammad kept on ignoring him because he didnt want to have to punish them. Lesson of the day, its almost impossible to get punished unless caught in the act of sexual intercourse or admittence...also muhammad disliked people whk admit sins. Keep it to yourself and repent is the general rule.

[Ghazi]

Some say there was a Quran verse that called for stoning for adultery that hasnt made the current codex. I dont think Muhammad is contradicting God in this case, sometimes there are simply too punishments or more for one crime also the Torah did mandate stoning for adulterers and adulteresses and some of the Islamic roots do stem from the Torah

[Ghazi]

^ I think thats correct. 100 lashes is for fornication, not adultery

[apalisoc_9]

Some say there was a Quran verse that called for stoning for adultery that hasnt made the current codex. I dont think Muhammad is contradicting God in this case, sometimes there are simply too punishments or more for one crime also the Torah did mandate stoning for adulterers and adulteresses and some of the Islamic roots do stem from the Torah

Ive read the quran. It only describes punishment for zina....

Zina is just unlawful sex. Could be adultery or premarital...premarital was the one being described. Not adultery. Muhammad gave the punishment for adultery...it was told to him what the punishment was..

[spurraider21]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stoning_of_Soraya_M.

[apalisoc_9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stoning_of_Soraya_M.

A film made by a french is a good study of what islam is..Thanks buddy.

[Joseph Kony]

islam is a religion (much like any abrahamic religion) for little dicked sensitive faggots who want to control women because they cant get pussy and their scrotes smells like camel feces

[Ghazi]

There are a lot of problems in some Islamic countries and cultures, but Islam itsef is unique and poorly understood. Its not that everyone has to believe in it, its just many mock it without understanding it at its core.

[Joseph Kony]

pls tell me more about your world of magic and delusions. brb gonna blow myself up cuz my imaginary friend is cooler than yours

[Ghazi]

•controlling women• just isnt an actual aspect of true Islam. Look to Khadijah Aisha and Zaianabfor women who made major contributions during that era. The misogynist elements some Islamic cultures possess are due to the cultures themselves. the Quran does not berate and insult women at all, to any degree

[apalisoc_9]

There are a lot of problems in some Islamic countries and cultures, but Islam itsef is unique and poorly understood. Its not that everyone has to believe in it, its just many mock it without understanding it at its core.

Muslim countries are nutorious for punishing people without enough Islamic daleel. Both Iran and Saudi Arabia are terrible at this.

[apalisoc_9]

In Iran or Saudi Arabia you could probably get stoned with just one witness but we know thats not supposed to be the case.

[Ghazi]

I think we view the punishment of adultery as extreme because we live in a time and era where marriages essentially have no backbone or strength to them anymore. Cheating is just par for the course, and people are getting married later so fornication is common. Never the less, in 7th century Arabia, adultery was viewed as a very serious offense and betrayal, today that betrayal is just seen as standard operating procedure.

[Joseph Kony]

there is no god so you're wasting your time studying and posting gibberish anyway. if the retarded following of sand n!ggers would focus on something besides living like barbarians the world would be a much better place. fuck man, entire sections of the world devouting their life to a fairly tale. :lmao grow up already and quit making excuses for your shitty culture and shitty history

[Ghazi]

^ post less

[Ghazi]

The barbarians in the world are the gang of Zionists/bankers/neocons, that much is certain

[Joseph Kony]

Shut the fuck up sand n!gger. You are an irrelevant poster. This is not 2006 anymore.

[Ghazi]

I seek the grace of Allah, you seek being relevant on a message board. Youre permanently salty, Im not. This is the difference between our religions :lol

[Joseph Kony]

You seek nothing but the justification of a barbaric religion. You are a faggot. And you probably have a 2 inch cock surrounded by thick bush entangled with camel pussy juice. Suicide bomb something pls

[Ghazi]

post less, ugh..

[spurraider21]

A film made by a french is a good study of what islam is..Thanks buddy.
director is iranian

author of the original book is french-iranian

and it's not about "what islam is." so no need to get rattled.

[Joseph Kony]

your prophet raped a 9 year old. this is a fact. and you justify this to yourself. pathetic :lmao

[Ghazi]

Except that she wasnt 9 and wasnt raped.

[Joseph Kony]

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[apalisoc_9]

director is iranian

author of the original book is french-iranian

and it's not about "what islam is." so no need to get rattled.

Why post it then?

[spurraider21]

Why post it then?
It's about the topic of adultery and stoning. Try reading before having stupid reactions

[Pelicans78]

80 lashes for pre-marital sex and 99 for adultery.

[apalisoc_9]

It's about the topic of adultery and stoning. Try reading before having stupid reactions

Except it has nothing to do with islam like you claimed. So are you trying to just be funny or what?

[apalisoc_9]

80 lashes for pre-marital sex and 99 for adultery.

Where do you get this?

[Clipper Nation]

Try reading before having stupid reactions
:lmao The irony of you saying this.

[apalisoc_9]

:lmao The irony of you saying this.

I hate harlem..he put me on the worst poster list -spursruder

:lol

One pf the most underrated meltdowns

[spurraider21]

Except it has nothing to do with islam like you claimed. So are you trying to just be funny or what?
where did i claim it has to do with islam?

[Molotov]

islam is a religion (much like any abrahamic religion) for little dicked sensitive faggots who want to control women because they cant get pussy and their scrotes smells like camel feces



:lol:lol

[spankadelphia]

Step 1: remove kebab.

[Molotov]

Pedomuhamad :lol:lol:lol



http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2013/10/was-muhammad-pedophile.html



For the Western mind, one of the most disturbing facts about Islam (http://www.answeringmuslims.com/p/islam.html) is that its founder (http://www.answeringmuslims.com/p/muhammad.html) had a sexual relationship with a nine-year-old girl. Muhammad’s marriage to Aisha has even led some critics to refer to him as a “pedophile.” This is, of course, extremely upsetting to Muslims, who view their prophet as the ideal servant of God (http://www.answeringmuslims.com/p/muhammad.html) and as the greatest example of what a man should strive to be (see Qur’an 33:21). Nevertheless, Muhammad’s relationship with a young girl presents a problem for Muslims, especially for those who want to share their faith with others.


Some Muslims are so embarrassed by their prophet’s marriage to a prepubescent girl that they are attempting to rewrite history, claiming that, contrary to all available sources, Aisha must have been much older than history demands. Other Muslims appeal to moral relativism, suggesting that, while sex with young girls may be wrong today, it wasn’t wrong in seventh-century Arabia. Still other Muslims try to offer morally sufficient reasons for their prophet to marry Aisha (i.e., some good state of affairs that could only be attained through Muhammad’s relationship with Aisha).


Some interesting conclusions..



There is, of course, a simple (but highly explicit) way to evaluate the importance of Muhammad’s marriage to Aisha. We must begin by trying to get a mental picture of a morally perfect man. For Muslims, this will include all the things they have been taught about Muhammad. According to their picture, he is kind, generous, patient, humble, and trustworthy. He protects orphans and widows, endures persecution, helps the needy, and promotes justice. He prays faithfully, fasts regularly, and obeys God in everything. He is loyal to his friends and patient with his enemies. He never gives in when tempted with evil. Now we must picture this same man in a room with an innocent little girl. He takes away her doll, climbs on top of her, and forces his penis inside her. She doesn’t know what is happening because she is too young to know much about sex. Frightened and confused, she cries because of the pain and bleeds on her bed, but she tries to remain quiet out of respect for her new husband, who, in return, endangers her life.


If a person is able to keep the same vision of moral perfection throughout this description, he may have the faith necessary to be a Muslim. But if his vision of the perfect man is at odds with what Muhammad did on numerous occasions, he will need to look elsewhere for an ideal human being.

[Molotov]

http://i68.tinypic.com/w7oewn.jpg

[Ghazi]

Aisha's age is controversial, but the Westerners to me have exaggerated it to defame Muhammad. Some other evidences showed she was around 12-18 years old at the time of marriage. To suggest she was "raped" is ridiculous, she was Abu Bakr's daughter.

[Molotov]

http://i65.tinypic.com/b3rm2q.jpg

[Molotov]

:rollin:rollin:rollin

[Stalin]

http://i65.tinypic.com/b3rm2q.jpg





Western exaggeration, indeed, more like business as usual even for todays sand niqqers.

[Biernutz]

http://i65.tinypic.com/b3rm2q.jpg



:wow

[Ghazi]

:lol trying to portray that as marriages :lol

[daledondale]

islam is a religion (much like any abrahamic religion) for little dicked sensitive faggots who want to control women because they cant get pussy and their scrotes smells like camel feces
https://45.media.tumblr.com/078742802e366c7ce90b23756534cc4b/tumblr_mm9pz46mSa1sq0zl6o1_400.gif

[Molotov]

:lol trying to portray that as marriages :lol




Scrah, is that all you have to say, rather weak, IMO TBH. I don't even get a verse....:cry:cry



Just facts, those are child brides from Yemen, a 100% Islamic country right next to Mecca, Pedomuhammads own city of birth. :lol


http://i66.tinypic.com/2i9jif7.png




http://i64.tinypic.com/2dkg4f8.jpg




http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/oct/01/story-yemen-child-bride



Physical and psychological problems last a lifetime, however, and recently there have been unconfirmed reports of an eight-year-old bride dying from her injuries (http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/yemen/a-wedding-a-funeral-or-a-cover-up-1.1230870) on her wedding night. That has led to calls for the legal age of marriage to be raised from 15 to 18. But even if the law was changed, there is no minimum age for marriage in Islamic law, and Yemeni clerics regularly argue against legal restrictions.



...there is no minimum age for marriage in Islamic law, and Yemeni clerics regularly argue against legal restrictions. Islam wants pedophilia, led as prime example by Pedomuhammad.












http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415871/Yemeni-child-bride-8-dies-internal-injuries-night-forced-marriage-groom-40.html


In September 2010, a 12-year-old Yemeni child-bride died after struggling for three days in labour to give birth, a local human rights organisation said...


An eight-year-old child bride has died in Yemen of internal bleeding sustained during her wedding night after being forced to marry a man five times her age, activists have claimed..






http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/08/13-year-old-yemeni-bride_n_530349.html



SAN'A, Yemen — A 13-year-old Yemeni girl has died of injuries to her genitals four days after a family-arranged marriage, a human rights group said.





The practice of marrying young girls is widespread in Yemen and has drawn the attention of international rights groups seeking to pressure the government to outlaw child marriages. Legislation that would make it illegal for those under the age of 17 to marry is in serious peril after strong opposition from some of Yemen's most influential Islamic leaders.




Strong opposition from Pedomuhammads most influential Islamic leaders. Wow, not sure how one can be any more clear than that.





What a surprise the countries at the heart of Islam has no minimum marriage age, only countries on earth, truly a Mecca of pedophilia. :lol


http://i63.tinypic.com/jg4fgm.jpg






http://i68.tinypic.com/2ef527l.jpg

[Molotov]

http://i67.tinypic.com/wlvev5.png


http://jeromiewilliams.com/2013/09/10/2385/yemen-child-brides/



Stories do not get more gruesome or any more heartbreaking than ones like this, where it is being reported that an eight-year-old child bride in Yemen died yesterday after her 40-year-old husband literally tore her apart from the inside while having sex with her on their wedding day.


Indeed, the practice has deep cultural and religious roots, and is widespread in Yemen. A February 2009 law set the minimum age for marriage at 17, but it was repealed after some conservative lawmakers called it un-Islamic.



17 as minimum age for marriage is un-Islamic, apparently. Clearly, that's too old for todays sand niqqers. Un-Islamic, indeed. :lol

[Molotov]

http://i63.tinypic.com/25f0lmv.png

[spurraider21]

:lmao

[Ghazi]

Islam itself is transcendent above cultures, this is what people fail to realize.

And Quran 65:4 advocates rape and underage marriages? Read the verse and judge for yourself.

Muhammad was an amazing human being. It is the biggest case of rags to riches story you're ever going to hear. And the age of Aisha is not correct, the ages of 6 and 9 are constantly used by anti-Islam websites although the sources are skeptical. It's more likely Aisha was in the 12-18 range.

[Ghazi]

The main subject of this thread has obviously been diverted, being that NATO and the Arab states fund DAESH which deliberately makes Islam look bad for the sake of mustering Islamophobic sentiments in the populations of the West, which know very little about Islam.

[spurraider21]

Islam itself is transcendent above cultures
:lol these vague, bullshits statements literally mean nothing

[Ghazi]

Marriages back then had political elements in the Arabian culture, and Aisha was the daughter of Abu Bakr, the first Caliph.

It's just ridiculous to think that Muhammad sexually molested this woman, who showed no signs of trauma/sexual abuse/psychological problems and was a scholar and contributor to the early days of Islam. If she was "raped as a 6 year old" she would not have become such an exemplary woman. Accounts indicate that the relationship of Muhammad and Aisha was very strong and passionate, probably the 2nd favorite wife behind Khadijah.

This is just the typical trash propaganda of the West trying to demonize Muhammad.

[Ghazi]

:lol these vague, bullshits statements literally mean nothing

There's nothing too vague about it. There are now 1.5 billion Muslims and many Islamic nation-states and even more sects and cultures yet. To find ills and problems in some of the cultural elements of some Islamic countries/sects/people, due to THEIR interpretation of what Islam "ought to be", just isn't fundamentally sound.

The core of Islam itself should be criticized, if one wishes to criticize Islam. Child marriages in an impoverished country, or women not being allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia,or a bunch of Western backed terrorists waving a black flag are not reflections of actual Islam but of Muslims mired in flawed cultures/ideas.

[HemisfairArena]

Catholic priest' molest little boys,,,Muslims molest little girls,,,,religion in its purest form,,,,at what point do you wake up and realize santa claus in the sky doesn't exist?

[Ghazi]

Im sure atheists and non-religious people have never molested little boys ever.

[Molotov]

Islam itself is transcendent above cultures, this is what people fail to realize.

And Quran 65:4 advocates rape and underage marriages? Read the verse and judge for yourself.

Muhammad was an amazing human being. It is the biggest case of rags to riches story you're ever going to hear. And the age of Aisha is not correct, the ages of 6 and 9 are constantly used by anti-Islam websites although the sources are skeptical. It's more likely Aisha was in the 12-18 range.



Transcendent :lol, a buzz word advocating rape. So because youre a retarded, delusional, religious fanatic you get to cherry pick right and wrong. GTFO faggot. We should ignore this mountain of facts and take your delusional word for it. :lol:lol
You have yet to refute the pic of the Islamic child brides, thought those weren't marriages, seems like they were, and are business as usual for Islamic sand niqqers afterall.

[HemisfairArena]

Im sure atheists and non-religious people have never molested little boys ever.

They just don't have the Pope and Vatican to cover it up and sucker the catholics out of money every weekend,,,,

[Ghazi]

Molotov, you just don't know much about Islam, I don't know what to say... cherrypicking some pictures and Youtubes from anti-Islam sites ... what am I supposed to say?

Again, anywhere child marriages is going on, is due to the ignorance/poverty/cultural flaws of that country/society, not Islam... even if it has Islam attached to it by name.

There is a lot of flaws and corruption and problems in the Islamic world today, but Islam itself, as a simple code of living, is above all of that.

[Molotov]

The main subject of this thread has obviously been diverted, being that NATO and the Arab states fund DAESH which deliberately makes Islam look bad for the sake of mustering Islamophobic sentiments in the populations of the West, which know very little about Islam.




Seems on topic to me, Islam makes itself look bad with facts, like rape of children is approved, led by your own Pedomuhammad, and laws against that, are repealed by religious fanatics like yourself, because they are un-Islamic. Rape is Islamic. :lol:lol:lol

[Ghazi]

Yeap... that must be the case.

[HemisfairArena]

Great comeback,,,you've convinced us all,,,,

[Molotov]

Molotov, you just don't know much about Islam, I don't know what to say... cherrypicking some pictures and Youtubes from anti-Islam sites ... what am I supposed to say?

Again, anywhere child marriages is going on, is due to the ignorance/poverty/cultural flaws of that country/society, not Islam... even if it has Islam attached to it by name.

There is a lot of flaws and corruption and problems in the Islamic world today, but Islam itself, as a simple code of living, is above all of that.




Nice work changing the goalposts from claiming initially that pic of Yemen child brides wasn't even real. How you explain this, your prominent and influential Islamic leaders want child rape, is this story lying then, tell us what really happened oh Great Dirty Sand Niqqer..


http://jeromiewilliams.com/2013/09/10/2385/




The girl, identified only by the name Rawan, died in Hardh in the governorate of Hajjah in northwestern Yemen, according to a report issued by UPI on Sunday, Sept. 8.

Activists in the region want to put an end to the practice of marrying young girls, and have called for police to arrest the girl’s husband and family. Nevertheless, the forced marriage of child brides in Yemen remains a socially accepted custom in many rural areas.




Indeed, the practice has deep cultural and religious roots, and is widespread in Yemen. A February 2009 law set the minimum age for marriage at 17, but it was repealed after some conservative lawmakers called it un-Islamic. In particular, a prominent Islamic cleric, Abdulmajeed al-Zindani, issued a fatwa in support of the practice, declaring supporters of a ban on child brides to be apostates, and ultimately leading a successful campaign against legislation that would prevent adult men from marrying children.

[Molotov]

Islam is the pure form of monotheistic worship, its fundamentals and foundations have far less flaws than the man-centered Christianity.




At least Jesus didn't rape. :lmao:lmao:lmao

[HemisfairArena]

Ghazi,,,one ounce of proof that a supreme being exists would be nice,,,,

[Molotov]

http://i65.tinypic.com/noamfp.jpg

[apalisoc_9]

Molotov, you just don't know much about Islam, I don't know what to say... cherrypicking some pictures and Youtubes from anti-Islam sites ... what am I supposed to say?

Again, anywhere child marriages is going on, is due to the ignorance/poverty/cultural flaws of that country/society, not Islam... even if it has Islam attached to it by name.

There is a lot of flaws and corruption and problems in the Islamic world today, but Islam itself, as a simple code of living, is above all of that.

Actually I think even the negative attention has created more reverts. ISIS though not islamic for example is full of new reverts.

I'm saying the actuall anti-islam sentiments in the media is not working..For some reason people are still reverting left and right despite the negative PR.

pretty shocking.

[Molotov]

http://i68.tinypic.com/24zm138.jpg

[Molotov]

:rollin:rollin:rollin

[Molotov]

Ghazi, where you at sand nigga... :lmao:lmao:lmao

[Biernutz]

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb270/systime/Islamic-logic_zpsbbtqvvlo.jpg

[Joseph Kony]

"you can't rape a 12 year old bro, she wanted it"

:lmao towel head going full retard

[Ghazi]

Ghazi,,,one ounce of proof that a supreme being exists would be nice,,,,

You either believe it or you dont, it is not a scientific and mathematical concept.

[Ghazi]

Actually I think even the negative attention has created more reverts. ISIS though not islamic for example is full of new reverts.

I'm saying the actuall anti-islam sentiments in the media is not working..For some reason people are still reverting left and right despite the negative PR.

pretty shocking.

daesh recruits are mercenaries, thugs, criminals, ignorant. It is not religous zeal or an Islamic awakening that guides their behavior

[apalisoc_9]

daesh recruits are mercenaries, thugs, criminals, ignorant. It is not religous zeal or an Islamic awakening that guides their behavior

I agree most of ther recruits are criminals but deash does have tons of reverts wolho end up regreting their decision.

My point being even with a nightmare PR like Deash Islam is still growing. Thats pretty incredible.

[Ghazi]

Marriages in 7th century Arabia had political
overtones. Aishas marriage was definitely political to strengthen tie between Abu Bakr and Muhammad. Muhammad married 2 of his daughters to Uthman and anothet to Ali. Such was the way things worked back then. The marriage concept of today is dramatically different. Its likely that Muhammad was not even that active sexually. He stuck with one women then in his 50s had as many as 9 wives due to the aforementioned politics. Given that he didnt have a ton of kids its very likely he didnt have much sex. and 0% he had sex with Aisha while she was under 10. Her age was likely 12-18 and she exhibited no signs of sexual abuse. If she was raped as a 6 year old it wouldve manifested its ugly head, instead she turned out to be a scholar of Islam.

[Ghazi]

I agree most of ther recruits are criminals but deash does have tons of reverts wolho end up regreting their decision.

My point being even with a nightmare PR like Deash Islam is still growing. Thats pretty incredible.

Islam does have a mass appeal but its growth may be due to other factors rather than the intrigue of the religion... ie, lots of large families in Islamic countries, rapidly growing populations.

Being a Muslim is a simple concept. Some atheists are closer to being "Muslim" than some Muslims themselves.

[Ghazi]

At least Jesus didn't rape. :lmao:lmao:lmao

Islam attaches nothing to its Godhead (Allah). It says the Creator of the Universe, of life that originates from water, of the solar system, of the galaxies and stars, of the animals and humans, has no attachments. The Quran may have some "limitations", specific verses reference historical events and early Islamic battles, and theres a sprinkle of stories about Moses, Yusuf, and others... but behind the verses (which are sublime in original Arabic) there are subtle codes and lessons and meanings... throughout the book, there is consistency in its approach. It truly is a surreal book, it is not as if anyone could've just came up with a Quran. The sublimity and purity of the verses was the initial recruiting tool. The challenge in the Quran was given to the Arabs of the time, a people marveled by language and poetry, to "produce a chapter or 10 chapters like it"... that challenge was never met.

The main flaw with Christianity is that a man by the name of Jesus has a share in the Godhead, which is completely irrational.

[Molotov]

Marriages in 7th century Arabia had political
overtones. Aishas marriage was definitely political to strengthen tie between Abu Bakr and Muhammad. Muhammad married 2 of his daughters to Uthman and anothet to Ali. Such was the way things worked back then. The marriage concept of today is dramatically different. Its likely that Muhammad was not even that active sexually. He stuck with one women then in his 50s had as many as 9 wives due to the aforementioned politics. Given that he didnt have a ton of kids its very likely he didnt have much sex. and 0% he had sex with Aisha while she was under 10. Her age was likely 12-18 and she exhibited no signs of sexual abuse. If she was raped as a 6 year old it wouldve manifested its ugly head, instead she turned out to be a scholar of Islam.



:lol Trying to move the goalposts over and over. With yet more vague speculations, common moves of delusional religious fanatics. So even if she was 10 when he had sex with her, that's rape you fucking retarded raghead. Its hilarious to watch you squirm when presented with facts. And you still have yet to refute that Islam is based on and supports rape at its inception and today, as numerous stories report from countries near the heart of Islam Mecca. Aren't you lucky there was no social media in 7th century Arabia, I have no doubt the rape of Aisha is but the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Pedomuhammad. :lol:lol

[Molotov]

Islam attaches nothing to its Godhead (Allah). It says the Creator of the Universe, of life that originates from water, of the solar system, of the galaxies and stars, of the animals and humans, has no attachments. The Quran may have some "limitations", specific verses reference historical events and early Islamic battles, and theres a sprinkle of stories about Moses, Yusuf, and others... but behind the verses (which are sublime in original Arabic) there are subtle codes and lessons and meanings... throughout the book, there is consistency in its approach. It truly is a surreal book, it is not as if anyone could've just came up with a Quran. The sublimity and purity of the verses was the initial recruiting tool. The challenge in the Quran was given to the Arabs of the time, a people marveled by language and poetry, to "produce a chapter or 10 chapters like it"... that challenge was never met.

The main flaw with Christianity is that a man by the name of Jesus has a share in the Godhead, which is completely irrational.




Is this gibberish from your book of fairy tales...:lol I give facts over and over, that you have yet to refute. While you give me verse and delusional gibberish of a raping junkie geezer. :lol:lol

[Ghazi]

Islam is based on Tauhid, not
rape

[Pelicans78]

Islam is based on Tauhid, not
rape

I think what transformed Islam in modern history is the Salafi movement which adherents strictly interpret the hadiths.

[apalisoc_9]

I think what transformed Islam in modern history is the Salafi movement which adherents strictly interpret the hadiths.

That's false. Salafi interpret both the Quran and The Hadith.

A salafi can be a rightous Muslim and many of them are if not most. The issue with salafism is that it relies soley on the individual interpretation of the Hadith and Quran. This would work in the early days of Islam and the their Golden age because people had better understanding.

A salafi can be sunni too..but a sunni cant be a salafi.

The problem with salafism is that it takes away the sheiks or the imams as advisors. The individual relies on his thought to come ul with a conclusion..this is fine if people respected each other takes similar to the golden age of islam, but its disastrous if people dont.

Mainstream shia and sunnis heabvily rely on respected scholars for interpretation.

[Pelicans78]

That's false. Salafi interpret both the Quran and The Hadith.

A salafi can be a rightous Muslim and many of them are if not most. The issue with salafism is that it relies soley on the individual interpretation of the Hadith and Quran. This would work in the early days of Islam and the their Golden age because people had better understanding.

A salafi can be sunni too..but a sunni cant be a salafi.

The problem with salafism is that it takes away the sheiks or the imams as advisors. The individual relies on his thought to come ul with a conclusion..this is fine if people respected each other takes similar to the golden age of islam, but its disastrous if people dont.

Mainstream shia and sunnis heabvily rely on respected scholars for interpretation.

Disagree in the fact that one can follow the Koran but not be a salafi while a salafi has to strictly follow the hadiths with the Koran and they give the Hadiths equal importance to the Koran by strictly following both. A lot of them are non-violent but the Wahabbis, Taliban, and ISIS take it to another level by strictly imposing the Hadiths on the people which is wrong especially when not all of the Hadiths are not authenticated.

[apalisoc_9]

Disagree in the fact that one can follow the Koran but not be a salafi while a salafi has to strictly follow the hadiths with the Koran and they give the Hadiths equal importance to the Koran by strictly following both. A lot of them are non-violent but the Wahabbis, Taliban, and ISIS take it to another level by strictly imposing the Hadiths on the people which is wrong especially when not all of the Hadiths are not authenticated.

Haodths and Quran are given equal value because they dont really contradict each other. Two things that you have to remeber here, The Hadith though not the Quran have commandments that are directly from Allah and the Allah commands people to follow the prophets way..the hadith plays in with the former.

Both shia and sunni hadiths have no straight up contradiction with the quran...what is outlined in the hadith is not in the quran for example.

Basically the hadith in its purest terms is the prophets interpretation of how Islam should be practiced.

Its a matter of daily life or fiqh as they call it...You are right there is many erranous hadith, but these can be spotted but the mainstream might not be able to spot a weak or false hadith and this is where an average salafi might falter.

Quranist in essense are not Muslims and this is accepted by both Shia and Sunni Muslims..its pretty clear the quran tells muslims to follow their prophets commands and many of his commands is not in the quran.

A large part pf islamic eschatology for example directly comes from hadith.

[Ghazi]

blowback in California. Not sure what these terrorists expect strategically with these senseess killings, none of it is mandated in Islam

[apalisoc_9]

blowback in California. Not sure what these terrorists expect strategically with these senseess killings, none of it is mandated in Islam

Probably emotionally fed ul with all the kids dying in the ME. ME Americans seems to forget their country has killed more civilians in iraq alone in an unjust war than jihadist.

People sometimes lose their shit...its pretty common shit in times of hardship. Not everyone is strong enough to think.

Most of these delusional people endnup thinking blood for blood soon as the bombs in syria or yemen drop.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The servant girl will give birth to her mistress and you will see barefoot, naked, and destitute shepherds compete in constructing tall buildings.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Whoever innovates something into this matter of ours which does not belong to it will have it rejected.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I have been commanded to fight the people until they say there is no God but Allah. So when they say there is no God but Allah then they will be granted protection from me for their lives and property, except by right of justice, and their reckoning is with Allah.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It is unlawful to shed the blood of a Muslim person who testifies that there is no God but Allah and that I am the Messenger of Allah except in one of three cases: the married person who commits adultery, legal retaliation for murder, and a person who abandons their religion and opposes the community.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Fear Allah wherever you are, follow a bad deed with a good deed and it will erase it, and behave with good character toward the people.

[Joseph Kony]

:cry is subbbliimmeee i saaaaiddd :cry

[Joseph Kony]

probably OP

http://i.imgur.com/xbwagzK.jpg

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The most evil matters are those that are newly invented, for every newly invented matter is an innovation and every innovation is misguidance and every misguidance is in the Hellfire.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Verily, Allah has recorded good and bad deeds and He made them clear. Whoever intends to perform a good deed but does not do it, then Allah will record it as a complete good deed. If he intends to do it and does so, then Allah the Exalted will record it as ten good deeds up to seven hundred times as much or even more. If he intends to do a bad deed and does not do it, then Allah will record for him one complete good deed. If he does it then Allah will record for him a single bad deed.

[Joseph Kony]

the fuck are you babbling about fuzzy jizzdump?

[DMC]

Everything is mandated in Islam and nothing is mandated in Islam. It's just like Christianity in that regard. It can be customized to your current worldview.

[apalisoc_9]

Everything is mandated in Islam and nothing is mandated in Islam. It's just like Christianity in that regard. It can be customized to your current worldview.
Thats not true.

[apalisoc_9]

What the hell os wrong with fuzzy? :lol

[DMC]

Thats not true.
Sure it is.

[apalisoc_9]

Sure it is.
Nope. Try again.

Both Islam and current christianity are set. If an individual interepets things.differently that their fault..

But the message was meant to interpeated the way God wanted it.

[DMC]

Nope. Try again.

Both Islam and current christianity are set. If an individual interepets things.differently that their fault..

But the message was meant to interpeated the way God wanted it.
What does Islam or Christianity do to correct a misinterpretation? Nothing. Ergo easy to customize to a current worldview, as we are seeing and have seen throughout the centuries.

[apalisoc_9]

What does Islam or Christianity do to correct a misinterpretation? Nothing. Ergo easy to customize to a current worldview, as we are seeing and have seen throughout the centuries.
Why is the religions fault that some people interpret differently? In Islam hadith context is the answer. You are trying to talk about two things you have minimal knwoeldge about

[Ghazi]

radical islam and terrorism is a political phenomenon, not a religious one.

[Pelicans78]

Why is the religions fault that some people interpret differently? In Islam hadith context is the answer. You are trying to talk about two things you have minimal knwoeldge about

No but DMC is saying that people can interpret it differently, especially when they don't know the full translation and have to rely on others.

[Pelicans78]

radical islam and terrorism is a political phenomenon, not a religious one.

It's become a religious one unfortunately in the last 30 years.

[Venti Quattro]

It's become a religious one unfortunately in the last 30 years.

People die for someone they haven't even seen or felt, just because this someone promised them things in a book. Really ridiculous

[Pelicans78]

Why is the religions fault that some people interpret differently? In Islam hadith context is the answer. You are trying to talk about two things you have minimal knwoeldge about

That's assuming the hadith is authenticated and not made up like thousands of hadith have been.

[Ball Buster]

This has been a completely rad conversation.https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/378800000434132796/1bec4c5a6f25c223f55d7c1db2f98741_400x400.png

[apalisoc_9]

That's assuming the hadith is authenticated and not made up like thousands of hadith have been.

So why would you follow unauthenticated hadith? Learn authentication yourself and see whats wrong and whats not if you trully seek knwoledge

[apalisoc_9]

No but DMC is saying that people can interpret it differently, especially when they don't know the full translation and have to rely on others.

Since this is an islam thread, i will refrain talking about christianity..

And a student learns from a teacher. Thats why you need to rely on mufasireen to understand the meaning or be a mufasir yourself

[apalisoc_9]

It's become a religious one unfortunately in the last 30 years.

How is something not taught by a religion a religious one?

[DMC]

Why is the religions fault that some people interpret differently? In Islam hadith context is the answer. You are trying to talk about two things you have minimal knwoeldge about
What is a religion without people? It cannot exist in a vacuum. The fact that the religion can morph over the years because a larger percentage of its followers shift their world view is enough evidence that religion is just a scapegoat for human nature acting out on itself. Since neither central figure of either religion has shown its face, all we have are the people who purport to practice the religion, and we've seen the results.

[DMC]

No but DMC is saying that people can interpret it differently, especially when they don't know the full translation and have to rely on others.
The translations are unimportant. Religion is a huge confirmation agent for those already biased toward or against certain things. They will read what they want and disregard the rest. In Christianity, the OT has been disregarded because it opposed their more user friendly world view, became unmarketable on a big stage. Islam is separated into "radical/fundamental" and the mythical "peaceful" version. Neither religion does anything to police itself. Both are useless for the growth of humanity. Islam prefers the middle ages it seems. Both religions and no religion at all, either way you get power to the wealthy and the poor doing the blue collar work of carrying out the work of Allah. When has a wealthy Muslim man martyred himself? When has a wealthy Christian done so?