Does anybody embodies "3 & D" more than Danny Green?

[ElNono]

I know the 3 been largely missing, but god damn keep shooting... that dribble feels like a turnover 50% of the time :bang

[Mugen]

Great thread...

[GSH]

I know the 3 been largely missing, but god damn keep shooting... that dribble feels like a turnover 50% of the time :bang

You mean he shoots the 3, then sprints back on D because the long rebound has the other team running?

I like Danny, but so far this season that's been pretty much his game.

[Mikeanaro]

Danny embodies 3 & 0, 3 more strikes and he is out.

[ElNono]

You mean he shoots the 3, then sprints back on D because the long rebound has the other team running?

I like Danny, but so far this season that's been pretty much his game.

I love his defense, he's always aggressive on that end. It's just that the offense for the starters has forced him to "create" for himself, and it's been pretty ugly so far...

[RD2191]

Great thread...
:lolyour avi gets me every time

[kaji157]

I know the 3 been largely missing, but god damn keep shooting... that dribble feels like a turnover 50% of the time :bang

At some point in the game, with Patty hesitating, and all memphis defense aware that manu was on fire, a few posessions ended in Dannys hands for him to create.....

Oh my god!! i dare say i prefer green to shoot the 3 with someone in his face than for him to drive.

The guy cannot dribble the ball 5 times without loosing the handle

[GSH]

I love his defense, he's always aggressive on that end. It's just that the offense for the starters has forced him to "create" for himself, and it's been pretty ugly so far...

I wouldn't mind him trying to take a few into the paint so much, if he wasn't 1-7 from the arc.

Manu has always gotten by with some ugly shit, because he produces enough to more than make up for it. Danny always did the same kid of thing by making a bunch of 3 pointers. If Danny was knocking down 3's, the occasional turnover wouldn't be so bad. But he's been responsible for a lot of dry possessions, and I think more of them have come from his missed 3's than from his poor ball handling.

[ElNono]

I wouldn't mind him trying to take a few into the paint so much, if he wasn't 1-7 from the arc.

Manu has always gotten by with some ugly shit, because he produces enough to more than make up for it. Danny always did the same kid of thing by making a bunch of 3 pointers. If Danny was knocking down 3's, the occasional turnover wouldn't be so bad. But he's been responsible for a lot of dry possessions, and I think more of them have come from his missed 3's than from his poor ball handling.

I rather he keeps shooting (and potentially missing)... those turnovers really hurt, since it's hard for the team to get back in transition which has been a problem...

Obviously, I would prefer he starts making them...

[apalisoc_9]

I mentioned this already in preseason and Chinook was giving me a hard time and telling me it was for the better. Danny has passed up so many wide open shots because of the dribble and hes a lot more hesitant now because he thinks drive or three instead of just three.

The dude needs to stop thinking about drives too much.

[GSH]

I rather he keeps shooting (and potentially missing)... those turnovers really hurt, since it's hard for the team to get back in transition which has been a problem...




Well, hell, that's a good point. I still have a lot more hope every time I see him line up a 3, than I do when I see him start to dribble. He's a 3P specialist, and I guess he's got to jack them up when he's open.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

He's pretty much Bruce Bowen with less discipline but a greater variety on his 3's.

[apalisoc_9]

Right now kawhi is the most dependable three pointer. Embarraing for Green and Mills. They need to be that guy.

[TrainOfThought5]

Great thread...

OP is in a posting slump, first the debunked Kyle Anderson analysis and now this. Honestly, i think he'll be okay. Much like danny he just needs to keep posting his way through it.

[Kawhitstorm]

Right now kawhi is the most dependable three pointer. Embarraing for Green and Mills. They need to be that guy.

It won't be long before Fathead passes up Faggy Green

[DMC]

Danny is a good 3pt shooter who needs to be in rhythm, reminds me of Brent Barry in that regard, and he's really good on transition defense (really good) and paired with KL probably the best backcourt defense in the game. He has a lower basketball IQ than we need from him however. His situational awareness is lacking, but I compare him to Manu and Boris and that's like comparing a good chess player to Kasparov and saying he has weak openings.

[TrainOfThought5]

It won't be long before Fathead passes up Faggy Green

Id be okay with him providing half of what Manu does for the bench. One step at a time.

[ElNono]

Danny is a good 3pt shooter who needs to be in rhythm, reminds me of Brent Barry in that regard, and he's really good on transition defense (really good) and paired with KL probably the best backcourt defense in the game. He has a lower basketball IQ than we need from him however. His situational awareness is lacking, but I compare him to Manu and Boris and that's like comparing a good chess player to Kasparov and saying he has weak openings.

I'm not comparing, because it's unfair. I also don't think it's all on Danny... the starters offense has really forced some players to get out of their usual roles, and obviously some are better at that than others.

[ElNono]

OP is in a posting slump, first the debunked Kyle Anderson analysis and now this. Honestly, i think he'll be okay. Much like danny he just needs to keep posting his way through it.

something to talk about instead of the playerfan circlejerk, tbh...

[SAGirl]

Danny has indeed been pushed out of his comfort zone. Dare I say in that Wizards game, the 4th Q collapse involved Danny as much as Tony and Patty and the failed defense on the Wiz last posession. I think Danny needs a structure and set plays to shine. He needs to know where his shots are coming from and have chemistry with guys to spot up and be ready. He hasn't really been able to catch a rhythm like we know he can, and has been prone to try to do too much. I don't mind him moving the ball, and its better for him to have counters and such to his 3 ball being taken away. The problem is that his counters have turned into his game pretty much, and that is where he's weakest.

Manu indeed covers up a lot for Danny, between closing out Q and games.

Lets be honest, at times even RAsual has looked better than Danny this season, just bc Rasual is not prone to trying to do too much and make mistakes passing or dribbling.

I love Danny though, but his best and truly elite aspects are 3-D indeed.

[egtonecity]

Danny's 3 ball defense is top notch. He's been able to keep himself from getting in any kind of rhythm and forcing lots of turnovers when he puts the ball on the floor.

[KimmyGib]

On the plus side, his passing looks to have improved

[Mr Bones]

Remember when someone said players couldn't dribble in the old days and posted that Danny Green was a better ball handler than every player from the 60s & 70s? That was the worst basketball take I've ever read-- Danny Green a batter ball handler than Earl Monroe or Pete Maravich?? :lol

[Fireball]

him dribbling gives me the creeps every time ... did he ever dribble more than last night?

[LittleCriminal]

Somebody should tweet Greens sorry ass and tell him to take all that shit off his hands.. Shoot it like a man.

[LittleCriminal]

Dude has two fingers taped together..

[HarlemHeat37]

He's suffering from the terrible structure in the starting unit, tbh..

Parker can only penetrate to score now, Kawhi's position and style isn't suited for playmaking, and Aldridge isn't drawing much defensive attention..Green is exposed, because he's a role player that relies on others to create for him in a unit that is no longer built for consistently creating open 3s off penetration..

This often leads to Green attempting to make plays off the dribble/drive, and a lot of it has been with the shot clock winding down IIRC..the thing he deserves blame for is hesitating on semi-contested 3s, and opting to drive, instead..he's gonna have to take more semi-contested 3s, even if they aren't ideal shots, because it's a better option than driving in congested lanes(which is the case with the SL, no spacing)..

The current offensive style is going to be exposed in the playoffs if it doesn't change, tbh..

[HarlemHeat37]

He's in his athletic prime and he's been arguably the best pure perimeter role player in the league(excluding high-usage role players like Klay Thompson) according to most advanced metrics, he didn't forget how to play basketball:lol..

[still.focused]

Hes the only NBA player I consistently remember looking scared on the court
If theres anything goin on while hes dribbling his punk ass looks like hes gonna shit his pants
He doesnt even have an escape dribble which is literally 1 bounce and 1 step
I dont even think his defense makes up for how poorly hes been playing offense this year
I also dont know how the Spurs FO or players have yet to demand he work on his dribbling

[tholdren]

He's suffering from the terrible structure in the starting unit, tbh..

Parker can only penetrate to score now, Kawhi's position and style isn't suited for playmaking, and Aldridge isn't drawing much defensive attention..Green is exposed, because he's a role player that relies on others to create for him in a unit that is no longer built for consistently creating open 3s off penetration..

This often leads to Green attempting to make plays off the dribble/drive, and a lot of it has been with the shot clock winding down IIRC..the thing he deserves blame for is hesitating on semi-contested 3s, and opting to drive, instead..he's gonna have to take more semi-contested 3s, even if they aren't ideal shots, because it's a better option than driving in congested lanes(which is the case with the SL, no spacing)..

The current offensive style is going to be exposed in the playoffs if it doesn't change, tbh..


Nope - He's taking shots in accordance with his career averages. He's just not making them. No more, no less.

[tholdren]

He's in his athletic prime and he's been arguably the best pure perimeter role player in the league(excluding high-usage role players like Klay Thompson) according to most advanced metrics, he didn't forget how to play basketball:lol..
except PER or VORP or OWS or WS/48

[HarlemHeat37]

Nope - He's taking shots in accordance with his career averages. He's just not making them. No more, no less.

He is missing open shots, that has been widely discussed here(although his jump shot has been fine in the past 5-6 games), but he's averaging a career high in turnovers, touches per game, shots off a drive/game and passes per game..he's also shooting a higher % of his shots from floaters than before, and a lesser % of 3s than prior years IIRC..

He also has more shots with less than 5 seconds on the shot clock than before, too, which hurts his %..

[HarlemHeat37]

except PER or VORP or OWS or WS/48

Give me a list of role players that fit your criteria(arguing with you, even though you don't know how to use numbers, anyways:lol)..

[tholdren]

He is missing open shots, that has been widely discussed here(although his jump shot has been fine in the past 5-6 games), but he's averaging a career high in turnovers, touches per game, drives per game and passes per game..he's also shooting a higher % of his shots from floaters than before, and a lesser % of 3s than prior years IIRC..

He also has more shots with less than 5 seconds on the shot clock than before, too, which hurts his %..

Not true. He averages 4.5 attempts from 3 for his career. This year he's shooting 4.7. He's also barely ahead of his 2PA.

[tholdren]

Give me a list of role players that fit your criteria(arguing with you, even though you don't know how to use numbers, anyways:lol)..
It would almost be funny if you dont just make shit up....

according to most advanced metrics, he didn't forget how to play basketball:lol

I am proving you wrong as usual.. Just look at except PER or VORP or OWS or WS/48

[HarlemHeat37]

Not true. He averages 4.5 attempts from 3 for his career. This year he's shooting 4.7. He's also barely ahead of his 2PA.

59% of his shots are from 3, a significant decline from 63% the previous 3 years, and only 25% of his 3s are coming from the corner(where he shoots his highest %), a huge decline from 33% the 2 previous years..

[HarlemHeat37]

It would almost be funny if you dont just make shit up....

according to most advanced metrics, he didn't forget how to play basketball:lol

I am proving you wrong as usual.. Just look at except PER or VORP or OWS or WS/48

:lmao you've never proven me wrong in your life..you're the same idiot that wanted to bench Kawhi, Green and Splitter in the 2014 playoffs..you're the same moron who wanted Jimmer Fredette on the team..

Green's advanced metrics were elite for a role player in 2015..you don't even know how to use the metrics, nor can you give me a list to of players that fit your criteria for a comparison..

[tholdren]

59% of his shots are from 3, a significant decline from 63% the previous 3 years, and only 25% of his 3s are coming from the corner(where he shoots his highest %), a huge decline from 33% the 2 previous years..

Not true. He averages 4.5 attempts from 3 for his career. This year he's shooting 4.7. He's also barely ahead of his 2PA.

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol vorp

http://oi65.tinypic.com/2rfpr9u.jpg

[elemento]

I think we're trying to rationalize too much a simple shooting slump

If the Spurs had really a huge problem in their offensive system, other players would suffer too. Mills is shooting 42% from deep. Manu is shotting 41% and Kawhi is shooting 45%. Every guy in the roster has improved their 3p% compared to last season.

Green is the only one struggling.

94% of his 3p shots are assisted this season, the same % from last season and the difference between open shots from last season to this season is minimal (from 28% to 26.2%)

Not enough to go from 41.8% to 29.5%. Green is missing wide open shots. The D is still there and teams still respect his shot, even though he is struggling to make them.

He will be fine in the playoffs.

[HarlemHeat37]

I think we're trying to rationalize too much a simple shooting slump

If the Spurs had really a huge problem in their offensive system, other players would suffer too. Mills is shooting 42% from deep. Manu is shotting 41% and Kawhi is shooting 45%. Every guy in the roster has improved their 3p% compared to last season.

Green is the only one struggling.

94% of his 3p shots are assisted this season, the same % from last season and the difference between open shots from last season to this season is minimal (from 28% to 26.2%)

Not enough to go from 41.8% to 29.5%. Green is missing wide open shots. The D is still there and teams still respect his shot, even though he is struggling to make them.

He will be fine in the playoffs.

The OP's post + mine were referring to Green's driving and dribbling..the shooting slump is obvious, it has been widely discussed here and in the media..

[tholdren]

:lol vorp

http://oi65.tinypic.com/2rfpr9u.jpg

LOL - it's you versus the world bro. Keep adjusting your argument. Your claim was that Advanced stats say Green Didn't Forget how to play. Why in the world would you look at last years stats as evidence.... proving you wrong again. WOW. your brain is kyle anderson.

[HarlemHeat37]

LOL - it's you versus the world bro. Keep adjusting your argument. Your claim was that Advanced stats say Green Didn't Forget how to play. Why in the world would you look at last years stats as evidence.... proving you wrong again. WOW. your brain is kyle anderson.

I never said that advanced stats say he didn't forget how to play..that doesn't even make any sense:lol..his numbers have plummeted across the board..

I said that he has been arguably the best role player in the league(in past seasons), and that he's in his athletic prime..he didn't forget how to play basketball..

[apalisoc_9]

Take the L tholdern..You are getting bodybagged right now.

Do it man.

[tholdren]

:lmao you've never proven me wrong in your life..you're the same idiot that wanted to bench Kawhi, Green and Splitter in the 2014 playoffs..you're the same moron who wanted Jimmer Fredette on the team..

Green's advanced metrics were elite for a role player in 2015..you don't even know how to use the metrics, nor can you give me a list to of players that fit your criteria for a comparison..

bwahahahahahahah - that would be like me saying Tim Duncan is leading the league in scoring. Then show you a stat from 2000.

[tholdren]

He's in his athletic prime and he's been arguably the best pure perimeter role player in the league(excluding high-usage role players like Klay Thompson) according to most advanced metrics, he didn't forget how to play basketball:lol..

[apalisoc_9]

He's in his athletic prime and he's been arguably the best pure perimeter role player in the league(excluding high-usage role players like Klay Thompson) according to most advanced metrics, he didn't forget how to play basketball:lol..

Learn how to quote dumbass

[tholdren]

Learn how to quote dumbass

or what?

[SAGirl]

the thing he deserves blame for is hesitating on semi-contested 3s, and opting to drive, instead..he's gonna have to take more semi-contested 3s, even if they aren't ideal shots, because it's a better option than driving in congested lanes(which is the case with the SL, no spacing)..

The current offensive style is going to be exposed in the playoffs if it doesn't change, tbh..

I agree with you completely on what looks to us like semi-contested 3s. A lot of them are actually open to him initially (we know Danny has a super quick release), but they become contested or look semi-contested because of his hesitation quite frankly. It's like he's not expecting the ball when he gets it, waits a sec or half a sec and by that time, yes someone is closing out on him fast and he launches forth into the traffic dribble of hell.

Leaving Danny to iso probably our worst option, so unless there is no time on the shot-clock for anything else, I would prefer if he just pass to someone and reset for a play.

[pgardn]

Danny has improved on the dribbling end thankfully. Pop is actually not requiring Green to give the ball up immediately. He made a few turnovers while dribbling and Pop did not jump him last night. Green made a steal and drove 2/3 court, with a man close to him, and put in a layup. I can't remember seeing this before.

Green, KL, and Duncan remain a triangle of stinginess. As long as Duncan is not required to come out too far from the basket we are good. Danny and KL help so much in this area as they can pester and stay close enough to their man to allow Duncan to roam a bit closer to the basket.

[pgardn]

I agree with you completely on what looks to us like semi-contested 3s. A lot of them are actually open to him initially (we know Danny has a super quick release), but they become contested or look semi-contested because of his hesitation quite frankly. It's like he's not expecting the ball when he gets it, waits a sec or half a sec and by that time, yes someone is closing out on him fast and he launches forth into the traffic dribble of hell.

Leaving Danny to iso probably our worst option, so unless there is no time on the shot-clock for anything else, I would prefer if he just pass to someone and reset for a play.

If he does get better on the drive, the opposition might actually bite on a ball fake leaving Green with plenty of time to reset and fire uncontested.

[GSH]

OP is in a posting slump, first the debunked Kyle Anderson analysis and now this. Honestly, i think he'll be okay. Much like danny he just needs to keep posting his way through it.

You wouldn't know a good post if it bit you on the ass. I don't always agree with Nono, but he knows basketball, and he knows the Spurs. I didn't read whatever Kyle Anderson post, but nobody's 100%. I guarantee you his analysis was well thought out, whether it was spotless or not. Then again, he may have been dead on. Most of you fucking loons can't understand stats to begin with.


59% of his shots are from 3, a significant decline from 63% the previous 3 years, and only 25% of his 3s are coming from the corner(where he shoots his highest %), a huge decline from 33% the 2 previous years..

Absolutely accurate. Someone mentioned that he's taking more shots late in the shot clock, and that's not his fault. I've seen him get the ball dumped on him late quite a few times, when he didn't have any choice but to shoot or drive. I honestly think that's been the reason for at least some of the driving shots he's been taking. I remember enough of them to skew numbers, with only 10 games in the books.


LOL - it's you versus the world bro. Keep adjusting your argument. Your claim was that Advanced stats say Green Didn't Forget how to play. Why in the world would you look at last years stats as evidence.... proving you wrong again. WOW. your brain is kyle anderson.

Dumbfuckery. Just plain dumbfuckery. Listen more, talk less. People are telling you some good info, and you're too stupid to pay attention.

[ElNono]

The late shot clock thing, while true, is not just Danny, it's a byproduct of how out of sync the SL offense is right now... hopefully these guys can gel better as the season goes on. Besides the shooting slump, I think the lack of spacing is also hurting some of that Danny's dribbling...

[GSH]

The late shot clock thing, while true, is not just Danny, it's a byproduct of how out of sync the SL offense is right now... hopefully these guys can gel better as the season goes on. Besides the shooting slump, I think the lack of spacing is also hurting some of that Danny's dribbling...

No doubt. I can think of a few plays where it looked like two Spurs were competing for the same spot on the court. The spacing has sort of made my eye twitch on occasion.

Of course, last night when he put the ball on the floor with three guys surrounding him? When he does stuff like that, I'm tempted to agree with the people who say he should never be allowed to dribble the ball. :lol

[SAGirl]

I am starting to think the dribbling thing is Pop giving opportunities to Danny to show that he has more game. He's made some nice passes at times (inconsistent though) and maybe preparing Danny for life after Manu, for closing games out without Manu, etc. It was a necessity through the season if you need to rest Manu on back to backs, or in OT. Unlike last season, Pop is really committed to limiting Manu's minutes and not have Manu go through a stretch like Dec. 2014.

It also gives a chance to Danny to earn a bigger role before it is passed to someone else. So far Danny has sucked at it, forcing Pop to play Tony/Patty a whole lot together, and on occasion preferring Anderson or Butler to close out games if Manu is not available.

Patty has also gotten a chance to earn a bigger role in the bench when Manu is out and he has fared better than Danny but he is not a distributor and he's only adequate at ballhandling so we'll see. The Grizzlies game proved Patty may be prone to TO if trapped as the main ball handler, something Manu is a master at.

All if these experiments allow Pop to make assessments about what personnel we will need to reinforce the team when Manu retires and it gives some guys with a lot of experience in the team already opportunities to develop and expand their games.

The frontrunner though for making the right decisions under pressure remains Anderson, as young and as inexperienced as he is. He has more talent for finding the right guys and is not rattled by ball pressure. He also makes decisions quickly, unlike Danny who looks at times like he doesn't know what he's doing, or Mills who can go too often into a chucker mode.

Ultimately, around the all star break Pop will see how these guys have handled their enhanced roles. If by that point, Danny has not corrected his issues, his ballhandling burden will be scaled back. Guaranteed.

[Obstructed_View]

The offense isn't getting him the shots they normally get him, which is why he's struggling. On the other end, I hesitate to say he's the most overrated defender in Spurs' history just because Keith Bogans was here recently.

[Obstructed_View]

Learn how to quote dumbass

I did.