Kobe's retirement has more to do with a failure to adjust to the modern game than

[midnightpulp]

any kind of "wear and tear" or the Achilles injury.

Dominique Wilkins came back from his Achilles injury and averaged 30 points the very next season, playing 71 games. Manu, more brittle, less athletic, and just as old as Kobe, is having one of his better seasons of the past few years. Tim Duncan is the most effective center in the league, and he's 40 and plays on one leg.

Kobe was never really that efficient in his prime, and now that wing defenders are longer, more athletic, and more disciplined, his iso-centric, ball sticking, ball dominant 20 counter moves in the post type of style is easy to shut down for a modern defense with modern wing defenders. Furthermore, every team has an athletic wing now, and Kobe simply isn't used to having to play defense every night against wing players who are lighting quick and can all jump out of the gym. In the early-mid 00s, Kobe was matched with a Ruben Patterson type of player nearly every game. He can't coast on defense anymore, and he knows it.

I'm not saying Kobe should be averaging 25 on 48%, but he shouldn't have regressed to the worst starting player in the league this quickly, especially with all the time off he's taken over the past 3 years. He simply did not evolve his skillset.

[Cry Havoc]

Eh, I buy some of this, but Kobe can't hit wide open jumpers. Not that he was a great shot at any point in his career, but he's a terrible player all the way around now.

[Splits]

Age: 33

Accomplishment: Last meaningful game

Conclusion: :lmao

[HemisfairArena]

Its actually very simple,,,lakers couldn't convince Howard to stay or any big time free agent to sign and carry kobrick and now they are looking at 3 straight lottery years and he sees his legacy up in flames,,,,game ova.

[2pac > Kobe]

get off the nigga dick already

[DMC]

get off the nigga dick already

Out come the alts to semen shield.

[2pac > Kobe]

Out come the alts to semen shield.

bitch my only alt is frodo fuck outta here fat ass

[DMC]

The "banned" trick is mine. Get your own.

[Bynumite]

So what you're saying is Kobe's game dropped off a cliff not because of the achilles injury, old age and obvious loss of elevation and explosion but because in the span of only 3 seasons NBA defenders got longer and more athletic? :lmao

Because Kobe was putting up 27PPG on 46% shooting 3 seasons ago before the achilles, not the 90's, not the mid-00's but just 3 seasons ago.

So you mean to tell me, 3 seasons ago the elite defense and athleticism you mention didn't exist? Makes perfect sense :lol

Mid also claims isoball is easy to shutdown by modern defenses, yet 5 of the current top 10 scorers in the league are also the top 5 iso players.

[Killakobe81]

Eh, I buy some of this, but Kobe can't hit wide open jumpers. Not that he was a great shot at any point in his career, but he's a terrible player all the way around now.

This. being more adaptable would help his efficiency but he still sucks now. It's his body because once or twice a game (well lately once) he hits a beautiful fade-away but bricks or air balls a wide open 3. he has no lift on his shot his knees are shot. it's not just the achilles ...
None are excuses. He is playing like ass, shooting like a dumbass and is horrid on defense all at $24 million.

[midnightpulp]

So what you're saying is Kobe's game dropped off a cliff not because of the achilles injury, old age and obvious loss of elevation and explosion but because in the span of only 3 seasons NBA defenders got longer and more athletic? :lmao

Because Kobe was putting up 27PPG on 46% shooting 3 seasons ago before the achilles, not the 90's, not the mid-00's but just 3 seasons ago.

So you mean to tell me, 3 seasons ago the elite defense and athleticism you mention didn't exist? Makes perfect sense :lol

Mid also claims isoball is easy to shutdown by modern defenses, yet 5 of the current top 10 scorers in the league are also the top 5 iso players.

Yes, the new breed of the long wing defenders (Kawhi, Paul George, Draymond Green, etc) who were rookies/2nd year players in 2013 are now nearing their prime. Lebron James was the mold here and the player who drove that necessity to have such a defender on your team. And guess what? Kirby is .422 career shooter against James.

I've already admitted the Achilles and injuries have affected Kobe, but they shouldn't have affected him to the point where he's arguably the worst starter in the league. He didn't adjust. He should've became a spot up shooter/off screen shooter, but he'd rather play in the post and chuck 3's because it's all he knows/wants to do. His ego won't allow the offense to generate offense for him. He needs to do the generating.

[DPG21920]

Eh, I buy some of this, but Kobe can't hit wide open jumpers. Not that he was a great shot at any point in his career, but he's a terrible player all the way around now.

I buy the title but not the reason. I mean he's correct that Kobe has had efficiency issues. But the real issues that led to the injury that no one discusses is his greed/failure to adapt. He ran off teammates, sucked up huge % of the cap & never changed. It was that which led to the injuries than to this. That's on Kobe.

[TDfan2007]

Eh...the guy clearly doesn't have any lift on his shot. Manu is lucky he plays on a team that only needs 20-25 a night from him. Kobe plays with atrocious teammates in an iso-centric system. At this stage he needs to be a 15-20mpg role player ala KG. Unfortunately, his pride and LA's shitty management sabotaged everything.

[DPG21920]

Eh...the guy clearly doesn't have any lift on his shot. Manu is lucky he plays on a team that only needs 20-25 a night from him. Kobe plays with atrocious teammates in an iso-centric system. At this stage he needs to be a 15-20mpg role player ala KG. Unfortunately, his pride and LA's shitty management sabotaged everything.

:lol "LAs shitty management". Yes, they suck, but it's on Kobe. Not their fault there is a salary cap and Kobe demanded a huge chick of that which limits their ability to surround him. Not their fault his attitude and chucking ways scared off FA for the last 4 years. It's on Kobe.

[TDfan2007]

Yes, the new breed of the long wing defenders (Kawhi, Paul George, Draymond Green, etc) who were rookies/2nd year players in 2013 are now nearing their prime. Lebron James was the mold here and the player who drove that necessity to have such a defender on your team. And guess what? Kirby is .422 career shooter against James.

I've already admitted the Achilles and injuries have affected Kobe, but they shouldn't have affected him to the point where he's arguably the worst starter in the league. He didn't adjust. He should've became a spot up shooter/off screen shooter, but he'd rather play in the post and chuck 3's because it's all he knows/wants to do. His ego won't allow the offense to generate offense for him. He needs to do the generating.

Kobe, first all the talk of his footwork, often relied on just elevating over guys and shooting fadeaways. That elevation is gone, so he's just straight up chucking shots now. The other night, Iguadala beat Kobe off the dribble...Iguadala! The guys body has clearly betrayed him.

At the same time, he refuses to play within a system and accept a lesser role. He should be a role player/spot-up shooter as you pointed out, but he'd rather continue bricking contested shots.

I think the main issue here is not Kobe's inability to adapt to the modern game, it's his inability to adjust his style of play to his deteriorating skills/athleticism. Timmy adjusted, Dirk adjusted, KG adjusted. Kobe never even tried...

[whitemamba]

What a retarded thing to say, Kobe gave to basketball physically way more than any spur in history, that includes Duncan and robinson combined. Duncan is playing against washed up bigs, with no footwork, no post, no skills, and cant defend in general. People gave kobe their best every single night, the same cant be said about Duncan, who has been living in the shadows. And last but not least, Kobe carried the lakers. Kobe made them money, put people in the stands , and won rings. Adaption was not an issue, if kobe was healthy he would still be shitting on the league, and If he was young kobe, fuckin forget about it, there was no one on earth that could guard him one on one. He doesn't have his legs under him anymore, its that easy, its not skill its not mental. its the body. don't get it twisted.

[TDfan2007]

:lol "LAs shitty management". Yes, they suck, but it's on Kobe. Not their fault there is a salary cap and Kobe demanded a huge chick of that which limits their ability to surround him. Not their fault his attitude and chucking ways scared off FA for the last 4 years. It's on Kobe.

No, but at the end of the day the Lakers are a poorly-constructed team full of chuckers/low-IQ players. Some of that onus falls on management. It's not all the management. I also think the whole "scaring away FAs" thing has been slightly overblown. Aldridge even admitted that Kobe was the best part of his meeting with LA.

[TDfan2007]

What a retarded thing to say, Kobe gave to basketball physically way more than any spur in history, that includes Duncan and robinson combined. Duncan is playing against washed up bigs, with no footwork, no post, no skills, and cant defend in general. People gave kobe their best every single night, the same cant be said about Duncan, who has been living in the shadows. And last but not least, Kobe carried the lakers. Kobe made them money, put people in the stands , and won rings. Adaption was not an issue, if kobe was healthy he would still be shitting on the league, and If he was young kobe, fuckin forget about it, there was no one on earth that could guard him one on one. He doesn't have his legs under him anymore, its that easy, its not skill its not mental. its the body. don't get it twisted.

:lol the shooting guard position is an embarrassment in today's NBA, and even still Kobe can't even shoot 40%. Yes, his body broke down, but he could have adjusted. He never could be bothered to do anything but keep playing his usual brand of inefficient ball. The only problem is that now he doesn't have the all-world athleticism necessary to pull those moves/shots off. KG became a spot-up shooter and is now basically a glorified assistant coach, Dirk went from a faceup force to a high post force taking advantage of pnr switches, Timmy went from being the best post player in the league to one of the best PNR bigs. Kobe is still playing the same way he did in 05-06...

[DPG21920]

No, but at the end of the day the Lakers are a poorly-constructed team full of chuckers/low-IQ players. Some of that onus falls on management. It's not all the management. I also think the whole "scaring away FAs" thing has been slightly overblown. Aldridge even admitted that Kobe was the best part of his meeting with LA.

Really? Ya, that's why so many FAs came to LA over the last 4 years and why all the All Star FAs they had took less to leave. How about judging people on what they do vs what they say?

[Bynumite]

Yes, the new breed of the long wing defenders (Kawhi, Paul George, Draymond Green, etc) who were rookies/2nd year players in 2013 are now nearing their prime. Lebron James was the mold here and the player who drove that necessity to have such a defender on your team. And guess what? Kirby is .422 career shooter against James.

I've already admitted the Achilles and injuries have affected Kobe, but they shouldn't have affected him to the point where he's arguably the worst starter in the league. He didn't adjust. He should've became a spot up shooter/off screen shooter, but he'd rather play in the post and chuck 3's because it's all he knows/wants to do. His ego won't allow the offense to generate offense for him. He needs to do the generating.

I agree that Kobe should have adjusted, the days of 20 FGA per game were obviously over but such a drastic change of role is not in him. He said he wouldn't stick around to average less than 20PPG. So it's definitely time to say goodbye.

[weebo]

Kirby bryan sucks so bad at basketball he's been humiliated into retirement :lmao

[Indazone]

Dude should just be coming off the bench as a spark at this stage of his career.

[Koolaid_Man]

671139767606575104

[pgardn]

So his love for all things basketball is so deep he retires and becomes...

What exactly? What can he actually do for his Lakers that is constructive besides stay the fuck away from any young talent?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

So his love for all things basketball is so deep he retires and becomes...

What exactly? What can he actually do for his Lakers that is constructive besides stay the fuck away from any young talent?

Hint: he does everything that Jordan does.

[Killakobe81]

No, but at the end of the day the Lakers are a poorly-constructed team full of chuckers/low-IQ players. Some of that onus falls on management. It's not all the management. I also think the whole "scaring away FAs" thing has been slightly overblown. Aldridge even admitted that Kobe was the best part of his meeting with LA.

Come on now dont bring logic to a let's shit on Kobe fest. Im sure Deeps feels Aldridge was lying ...

[Killakobe81]

Really? Ya, that's why so many FAs came to LA over the last 4 years and why all the All Star FAs they had took less to leave. How about judging people on what they do vs what they say?

So the fact the Lakers suck and did a poor job in the showing how the incorporated metrics all of that was bullshit?
Damn, Deeps didnt know you to be so close minded.

[Cry Havoc]

Come on now dont bring logic to a let's shit on Kobe fest. Im sure Deeps feels Aldridge was lying ...

Just because meeting Kobe was a good experience for LMA doesn't mean he's in a rush to go share the court with that dude. Same with Pau telling Marc to stay away. You think it was all about the management after the number of times Kobe went whining to the media about his teammates?

[RsxPiimp]

So the fact the Lakers suck and did a poor job in the showing how the incorporated metrics all of that was bullshit?
Damn, Deeps didnt know you to be so close minded.

Deeps is still on that "Free Agents won't come to L.A. even after Kobe leaves" BS train

[midnightpulp]

Deeps is still on that "Free Agents won't come to L.A. even after Kobe leaves" BS train

Jim Buss and Byron Scott need to leave in order to make LA attractive again. NBA players are more sophisticated now. Pitching them bright lights and night life no longer cuts it. They know how dreadful and stuck in the stone age the Lakers front-office is. Jury is out on whether Mitch is doing Jim's bidding or is part of the problem himself.

[Killakobe81]

Just because meeting Kobe was a good experience for LMA doesn't mean he's in a rush to go share the court with that dude. Same with Pau telling Marc to stay away. You think it was all about the management after the number of times Kobe went whining to the media about his teammates?

Never said that they are in a rush to play with him ... Just not buying it's all on Kobe. Mid is right Byron at least needs to go ... even post Kobe for the LAkers to get any FA love.

[Killakobe81]

Jim Buss and Byron Scott need to leave in order to make LA attractive again. NBA players are more sophisticated now. Pitching them bright lights and night life no longer cuts it. They know how dreadful and stuck in the stone age the Lakers front-office is. Jury is out on whether Mitch is doing Jim's bidding or is part of the problem himself.

Gets it. IF it was all Kobe that would be easier for me as a Laker fan first. Now he is leaving that should solve all our woes ...right?
And in the end outside of losing Pau for nothing glad we dont have Melo, Dwight or Greg Monroe. Kobe Jimbo etc. saved us from ourselves. jury still outy on if LMa will be a good deal two years from now. Lakers better hope Druss, Randle and this year's picks pan out because in FA most of teh players are garbage or damaged goods. I was just telling a buddy something seems off with KD. Not sure I want him at max anymore either.

[Cry Havoc]

Never said that they are in a rush to play with him ... Just not buying it's all on Kobe. Mid is right Byron at least needs to go ... even post Kobe for the LAkers to get any FA love.

Obviously it's not all on Kobe. How much of it IS on Kobe is totally up for debate.

You have to concede that the management personnel of the Lakers, however terrible, is somewhat offset by the fact that LA is one of the most desirable spots to play in the entire world. So just like you don't buy that it's all on Kobe, I don't buy that the incompetence of the Lakers FO is completely or even modestly offset by the lure of playing in Tinseltown.

[DPG21920]

Deeps is still on that "Free Agents won't come to L.A. even after Kobe leaves" BS train

Explain how it's bs. Because what you just quoted from Killa is him saying Kobe was not the problem. So if you are saying Kobe IS the problem, why are you quoting Killa saying something you don't even believe in?

[Koolaid_Man]

What a retarded thing to say, Kobe gave to basketball physically way more than any spur in history, that includes Duncan and robinson combined. Duncan is playing against washed up bigs, with no footwork, no post, no skills, and cant defend in general. People gave kobe their best every single night, the same cant be said about Duncan, who has been living in the shadows. And last but not least, Kobe carried the lakers. Kobe made them money, put people in the stands , and won rings. Adaption was not an issue, if kobe was healthy he would still be shitting on the league, and If he was young kobe, fuckin forget about it, there was no one on earth that could guard him one on one. He doesn't have his legs under him anymore, its that easy, its not skill its not mental. its the body. don't get it twisted.


No one wants to talk bout this knowledge you spittin :toast

Hakeem Olajuwon said it best....the 2 guard position is the toughest position in all of basketball...and this is coming from a 4/ 5 position player...who in my view was 10x the player Tim Duncan ever was....its not even close comparing Hakeem who was far far superior offensively and defensively to Tim...but back to your point Tim Duncan had it easy...while the whole world was gunning for Kobe...every single night....his body gave out because he simply gave more..look at the global impact on the game...people around the world in every country from Asia, China especially China :lol, the Middle East, just about every country in Europe, South America, Africa you name it they all worship Kobe....

The US business moguls from Apple CEO, Facebook, Oprah Winfrey, billionaires such as Richard Branson, Warren Buffet, etc all doing business with and mentoring Kobe...all of the Hollywood elites love Kobe....Floyd Mayweather, Manny Paqucio and atheletes from across all sports such as football, baseball etc all point to Kobe as their inspiration....99% of the All-time greats such as MJ, Kareem, Dr J, Larry Bird, Magic, even Red Auerbach's daughter all have Kobe ranked behind MJ....99% of current players including every rookie class since 2000 all have Kobe as their favorite player and the consensus #2 behind MJ....almost every Olympic atheistic from every country in the world all love Kobe..shit don't make me bump all my old threads on how all those white female Olympians from the Swim teams, to the Vollyball teams to the soccer teams all going crazy over that nigga when he steps into the building...I'm jealous as fuck of this nigga :lol

But my point is simple...Tim Duncan pales in comparison to Kobe....its not even close in the grand scheme of things...that's why I let Spur fans have their moment...deep inside they know Tim is not on Kobes level...and if they don't they're delusional...what I've just layed out is proof...Tim plays in pressure less Market...where court side seats sell for as low as 13 cents :lol no way the accomplishments are the same...every night as you mentioned teams ran 2 and 3 athletic wing defenders at Kobe at all times...some of the games most atheletic and competitive players we've ever seen...

From MJ, to Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, Steve Nash, Tracy Mcgrady, Allen Iverson, Dwade, Lebron James, Mike Bobby, Ron Artest, Tony Allen, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Bruce Bowen, Doug Christie, Rueben Patterson, Grant Hill, Jason Richardson, Vince Carter, Jason Kidd, Jamal Masburn, Jimmy Jackson, Kevin Durant, Westbrook, and on and on and on and on....

What's even more astounding aside from the partial list of tough players Kobe had to defend and play against is the fact that once he got past those athletic players he had to deal with the bigs down low from the 3 to the 5 positions and boy did he ever...thats why I laugh my ass off when people like DPG, Splits, Midnight Pulp, DMC, and KillaKobe say that Duncan was a better player and had a better career..especially in light of position played, title defense :lol and Olympic team contribution...the level of ignorance they show is astounding....

But like I said let them have their moment :lmao

[DPG21920]

What's kind of amusing is watching Killa & Rsx band together even though collectively they agree with what I've said and don't agree with what the other said :lol

I said most of what has happened is on Kobe. His style play, failure to adapt, running teammates off, taking massive contracts, etc...I also said that I think while it's on Kobe mostly, LA will still struggle to land FA's after Kobe is gone due to their terrible drafting and poor front office.

Killa says it's on the front office & agrees they will struggle with FA's even when Kobe is gone :lol
RSX says I'm silly for saying FA's won't come after Kobe is gone impying it's on Kobe :lol

So they both agree with me overall and don't agree with each other.

[Raven]

OP is right.

[daslicer]

What's kind of amusing is watching Killa & Rsx band together even though collectively they agree with what I've said and don't agree with what the other said :lol

I said most of what has happened is on Kobe. His style play, failure to adapt, running teammates off, taking massive contracts, etc...I also said that I think while it's on Kobe mostly, LA will still struggle to land FA's after Kobe is gone due to their terrible drafting and poor front office.

Killa says it's on the front office & agrees they will struggle with FA's even when Kobe is gone :lol
RSX says I'm silly for saying FA's won't come after Kobe is gone impying it's on Kobe :lol

So they both agree with me overall and don't agree with each other.

I would say they will have an easy time getting FA's now that Kobe is gone but that doesn't guarantee they will be relevant again. It will depend on the type of FA's they sign for example will they sign an overrated empty stat type of player like Kevin Love or go after a chucker like Westbrook. I think their team will be run the same way the Knicks have been run the last 15 years or so.

[DPG21920]

That goes for everyone though - meaning the choices you make. What's more important IMO is getting what you want. Plan A. Whether it works or not is up to a lot of variables, but LA used to always get what they wanted. Not in the last 4 years though.

If they are still relegated to second class citizens after Kobe (I think there's a good shot) it's an issue. They have no Kobe, a ton of money & they are LA. If they whiff on the top 2-3 FAs (Durant, etc..) you'll know the truth. They will sign someone of course but it will be obvious who is plan A. It still may work out for LA getting whomever they get, but it won't be because it was their plan A.

They may luck into a decent team which is besides the point.

[ambchang]

Never said that they are in a rush to play with him ... Just not buying it's all on Kobe. Mid is right Byron at least needs to go ... even post Kobe for the LAkers to get any FA love.

Honestly I don't think Kobe gets all the blame on the FA issue in LA but he does play a huge part in it.

Athletes want a few things: money, fame, winning. They are somehow inter related as winning usually leads to the other two and big markets like LA and NY just gets you more fame and money.

The problem in LA is that Kobe took up a lot of the money. Even though they can offer the max, they cannot provide the fame as Kobe is taking all the credit regardless, and they are not getting advertising dollars as we can see with MVPau. So given the same max deals, FA naturally would choose a place that can give them a better chance at winning and/or better opportunities for advertising dollars that came from winning.

But then you can also directly lead the losing to Kobe as he has really dragged the franchise down. I really believe the treatment of MVPau turned away a lot of players. Statistically speaking, he was the main reason for the lakers success, and with the way the lakers offense was constructed, it's hard for you to argue the other way either. However, he was treated like a punching bag. He got all the blame and none of the credit and it was largely because of how Kobe uses the media to jab him time and time again. Players saw that and didn't want to be a part of it. Who wants to do all the work and not get any of the credit while getting all the blame when things go sour? Put on your big boy pants? It was condescending, especially considering the fact that lakers were struggling to get to the playoffs without MVPau and became title favourites for three years in a row with him. It was disgraceful and players want no part of that.

[ambchang]

What a retarded thing to say, Kobe gave to basketball physically way more than any spur in history, that includes Duncan and robinson combined. Duncan is playing against washed up bigs, with no footwork, no post, no skills, and cant defend in general. People gave kobe their best every single night, the same cant be said about Duncan, who has been living in the shadows. And last but not least, Kobe carried the lakers. Kobe made them money, put people in the stands , and won rings. Adaption was not an issue, if kobe was healthy he would still be shitting on the league, and If he was young kobe, fuckin forget about it, there was no one on earth that could guard him one on one. He doesn't have his legs under him anymore, its that easy, its not skill its not mental. its the body. don't get it twisted.

Yeah because going up against the weakest era of SG I'd much tougher than going up against shaq, kg, dirk, Dwight, Yao, Ben Wallace, Randolph, the gasol brothers, and a bunch of brushing bigs.

Who did Kobe went up against? Tmac, Vince, Allen, wade and now harden. None of them are even in the top 20 all time.