View Full Version : OT: Duncan vs Kobe: Greatest Player of Their Generation? Thread
BatManu20
12-01-2015, 03:31 PM
I know it's been discussed to death on ST, but since Kobe announced his retirement, the inter-waves have blown up with "greatest player of his generation" talk. Masses arguing over Kobe vs Duncan, Duncan vs Kobe. Obviously Spurs fans say Duncan and Laker fans Kobe.
But Mike & Mike did a segment on it this morning too (they both picked Duncan, although narrowly). Most NBA analysts/experts agree it's Duncan. But regardless, I figured I'd start a thread where I can post arguments, tweets, discussions, etc. Something to kill the time at the very least.
BatManu20
12-01-2015, 03:31 PM
Link to Mike & Mike segment.
http://www.fanly.me/c/zKu10jVR06
BatManu20
12-01-2015, 03:32 PM
671684878195404800
BatManu20
12-01-2015, 03:35 PM
671745384255983616
671745298448912384
BatManu20
12-01-2015, 03:35 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEXz27X0nkY
BatManu20
12-01-2015, 03:36 PM
671511117231816704
671416085690908672
midnightpulp
12-01-2015, 03:43 PM
Casual fans and old media will probably lean Kobe or pick Duncan by citing "longevity" rather than Duncan's greater impact across the board. People who know what they're talking about will decidedly pick Duncan with little qualification. It'll be entertaining to see the tweets from Causals, like O'Shea Jackson there.
BatManu20
12-01-2015, 03:49 PM
671777032246853636
BatManu20
12-01-2015, 03:58 PM
669376071649767424
BatManu20
12-01-2015, 03:59 PM
671421717353484288
RsxPiimp
12-01-2015, 04:02 PM
If you poll current or former or even up and coming NBA players, they will almost unanimously select Kobe as the best player in the league. :lol
Personally, had Kobe retired in 2013, I'd put him over Duncan. He had an amazing season. He played his heart out and the Achilles injury was the perfect ending tbh. He tore his Achilles, shot 2 FT's and walked away. That was such a great narrative.
BatManu20
12-01-2015, 04:03 PM
671434894111875072
Killakobe81
12-01-2015, 04:29 PM
No problem with Duncan as the answer..
it's closer than Spur fan will admit ...
But it's Duncan.
LOL at the draft debate who wouldnt take a seasoned Duncan out of college over Kobe straight out of HS?! LeBron was the best prospect from HS I ever saw and I would have still chosen Duncan ... what does that prove?:lol
what a dumb reason given by Spradley ...just say Duncan is better ... or you flat out prefer Tim.
weebo
12-01-2015, 04:40 PM
butthurt laker morons :lmao...how far would have kirby taken the charlotte hornets if he didn't whine his way onto a stacked lakers team...and of course former players were going to choose kirby over duncan... with the media shoving kirby bryan down our throats because the nba wanted so badly to have another air jordan
RsxPiimp
12-01-2015, 04:42 PM
and of course former players were going to choose kirby over duncan...
because?
HarlemHeat37
12-01-2015, 04:42 PM
100% of new media will say Duncan, old media will say Kobe, and Kobe's friends around the league will say Kobe..predictable, obviously:lol
HarlemHeat37
12-01-2015, 04:43 PM
because?
A lot of players have picked Duncan, tbh..doesn't really mean anything, though, since players have atrocious basketball evaluation takes:lol
RsxPiimp
12-01-2015, 04:44 PM
Duncan will easily be forgotten though. Does this guy even have a social media account? :lol
HarlemHeat37
12-01-2015, 04:46 PM
Kobe really hurt his image by not retiring after the injury, tbh..I don't think I've seen a player's legacy do a 180 so quickly:lol..
Could have ended his career in legendary fashion, making a FT after tearing his Achilles..would have been the lasting memory for everybody..
RsxPiimp
12-01-2015, 04:47 PM
A lot of players have picked Duncan, tbh..doesn't really mean anything, though, since players have atrocious basketball evaluation takes:lol
True, but Pro's opinions will always resonate far more than any sports junkie who runs blogs, let's be honest.
HarlemHeat37
12-01-2015, 04:48 PM
True, but Pro's opinions will always resonate far more than any sports junkie who runs blogs, let's be honest.
For sure..I don't really care about the argument, since I completely avoid talking basketball with non-hardcore fans:lol..these arguments are pretty trivial, regardless IMO..I got over "all-time lists" discussions a while ago, they're so lame..
weebo
12-01-2015, 04:52 PM
Duncan will easily be forgotten though. Does this guy even have a social media account? :lol
hey moron you just answered why former/current players would choose kirby over duncan...the media made kirby into something he is not because they were dead set on having another air jordan...the media made bryan into something he is not and duncan never got that kind of attention...they're were plenty of players that were annoited heir apparent ( grant hill, vince carter, mcgrady, AI, etc) but all failed because none of those players played in a market like LA or had hall of fame big men leading the lakers to the promise land :lol
RsxPiimp
12-01-2015, 04:52 PM
For sure..I don't really care about the argument, since I completely avoid talking basketball with non-hardcore fans:lol..these arguments are pretty trivial, regardless IMO..I got over "all-time lists" discussions a while ago, they're so lame..
True, true...
RsxPiimp
12-01-2015, 04:55 PM
hey moron you just answered why former/current players would choose kirby over duncan...the media made kirby into something he is not because they were dead set on having another air jordan...the media made bryan into something he is not and duncan never got that kind of attention...they're were plenty of players that were annoited heir apparent ( grant hill, vince carter, mcgrady, AI, etc) but all failed because none of those players played in a market like LA or had hall of fame big men leading the lakers to the promise land :lol
This post gave me a headache, and I'm not even fluent in English :lol
You guys are asking and answering different questions, but still the questions you'd rather answer than the one being asked. Who was the greatest player of their generation? It's not about longevity, not about peak, not about anything other than that question. You look at the entire body of work, and to say anyone was better than Duncan is foolish, since his accolades span his career and his output and results have never dipped below playoff level basketball.
This post gave me a headache, and I'm not even fluent in English :lol
No, you aren't, and I read it just fine. Now dry my cock so I can return to the soiree, piss boy.
Brazil
12-01-2015, 05:03 PM
It's not anymore even debatable
spurraider21
12-01-2015, 05:07 PM
No, you aren't, and I read it just fine. Now dry my cock so I can return to the soiree, piss boy.
why would you want a filipino man to be touching that... faggot
If you poll current or former or even up and coming NBA players, they will almost unanimously select Kobe as the best player in the league. :lol
Most players aren't very smart, and probably wouldn't have amounted to much in life if they hadn't won the genetic lottery. Their opinion is pretty irrelevant. They overvalue flashiness which is a common occurrence amongst dumb people. For example, Harden was the player's choice for MVP last season.
Killakobe81
12-01-2015, 05:08 PM
You guys are asking and answering different questions, but still the questions you'd rather answer than the one being asked. Who was the greatest player of their generation? It's not about longevity, not about peak, not about anything other than that question. You look at the entire body of work, and to say anyone was better than Duncan is foolish, since his accolades span his career and his output and results have never dipped below playoff level basketball.
Great point. Said in a simple yet complete way, nicely done.
Buddy Mignon
12-01-2015, 05:10 PM
I know it's been discussed to death on ST, but since Kobe announced his retirement, the inter-waves have blown up with "greatest player of his generation" talk. Masses arguing over Kobe vs Duncan, Duncan vs Kobe. Obviously Spurs fans say Duncan and Laker fans Kobe.
But Mike & Mike did a segment on it this morning too (they both picked Duncan, although narrowly). Most NBA analysts/experts agree it's Duncan. But regardless, I figured I'd start a thread where I can post arguments, tweets, discussions, etc. Something to kill the time at the very least.
Duncan and Kobe's peers pick Kobe. I don't even think its close, tbh. Kobe achieved shit Jim didn't. Kobe was the more dynamic player and owned Jim head to head. Kobe's highs were higher than Jims, team wise and personal wise and Jims lows were lower than Kobes... team wise and personal.
spurraider21
12-01-2015, 05:13 PM
Duncan and Kobe's peers pick Kobe. I don't even think its close, tbh. Kobe achieved shit Jim didn't. Kobe was the more dynamic player and owned Jim head to head. Kobe's highs were higher than Jims, team wise and personal wise and Jims lows were lower than Kobes... team wise and personal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNE1Vju1ftM
Buddy Mignon
12-01-2015, 05:14 PM
You guys are asking and answering different questions, but still the questions you'd rather answer than the one being asked. Who was the greatest player of their generation? It's not about longevity, not about peak, not about anything other than that question. You look at the entire body of work, and to say anyone was better than Duncan is foolish, since his accolades span his career and his output and results have never dipped below playoff level basketball.
That bronze medal is much lower than missing the playoffs. Jims response to miserably failing was even worse. "FIBA SUCKS!!!"
- Jim Huckleberry
Cry Havoc
12-01-2015, 05:57 PM
It's not really a debate. It's Duncan and it's not close. Sorry Killa. Part of what you have to take into account when you get into the top 10 of all-time is more than just the numbers. Duncan has, is, and always will be the consummate teammate. You pick him because you know he's going to bring you titles and you're never, ever going to have to ship someone down the river to appease him. He isn't a child in a man's body who's going to throw tantrums to the media in the middle of a freakin' Larry O'Brien chase. He's never going to feud with players or do any of the juvenile BS that can destroy team chemistry.
It's Duncan and it's not close. The stats are in his favor, and his resume as a teammate massively tilts the balance.
If there's a fantasy draft with every player in history, there are probably 3-5 players, at best, you consider taking before Tim.
It's not really a debate. It's Duncan and it's not close. Sorry Killa. Part of what you have to take into account when you get into the top 10 of all-time is more than just the numbers. Duncan has, is, and always will be the consummate teammate. You pick him because you know he's going to bring you titles and you're never, ever going to have to ship someone down the river to appease him. He isn't a child in a man's body who's going to throw tantrums to the media in the middle of a freakin' Larry O'Brien chase. He's never going to feud with players or do any of the juvenile BS that can destroy team chemistry.
It's Duncan and it's not close. The stats are in his favor, and his resume as a teammate massively tilts the balance.
If there's a fantasy draft with every player in history, there are probably 3-5 players, at best, you consider taking before Tim.
But what about flash, 81, cult followings, marketability, and fierce underbites? That kind of events things out. :cry
daslicer
12-01-2015, 06:40 PM
I will keep it real simple with this comparison for both of these players. Both Duncan and Kobe had a 3 year stretch where they didn't have all-star teammates. Duncan's stretch occurred from '01-'04 and during that period he won 2 league MVPs, 1 finals MVP, 1 championship. The spurs during that stretch won a total of 175 games with a winning percentage of .711. Kobe's stretch occurred from '04-'07 and during that period he won 2 scoring titles that resulted in a lottery appearance and 2 first round exits. The Lakers during that stretch won a total of 120 games with a winning percentage of .487. Both players were at their peak during these stretches and the circumstances were equal so it's very clear Duncan is the better player.
I will keep it real simple with this comparison for both of these players. Both Duncan and Kobe had a 3 year stretch where they didn't have all-star teammates. Duncan's stretch occurred from '01-'04 and during that period he won 2 league MVPs, 1 finals MVP, 1 championship. The spurs during that stretch won a total of 175 games with a winning percentage of .711. Kobe's stretch occurred from '04-'07 and during that period he won 2 scoring titles that resulted in a lottery appearance and 2 first round exits. The Lakers during that stretch won a total of 120 games with a winning percentage of .487. Both players were at their peak during these stretches and the circumstances were equal so it's very clear Duncan is the better player.
Great post. Kirby never learned to use his talents to make others better, he was always concerned with getting his. Top 5 individual talent of all-time but only a Top 15 basketball player.
The Gemini Method
12-01-2015, 06:46 PM
Can't go wrong with either player--each means what they do to the respective denizens of their respective cities. One thing is for sure is that they both will go down as some of the greatest players in the NBA. There is no validity to the majority of posts on here-it is all subjected. What's the point in arguing? Doesn't get you any closer to claim responsibility for both team' celebrated success. I enjoyed watching both. I'm a Laker fan,though, and so I would inherently side with the Lakers. But I recognize what Duncan did and that was amazing to see unfold throughout my youth.
Silver&Black
12-01-2015, 07:07 PM
http://i.imgur.com/Yu5zq3S.png
Koolaid_Man
12-01-2015, 07:16 PM
No one wants to talk bout this knowledge you spittin :toast
Hakeem Olajuwon said it best....the 2 guard position is the toughest position in all of basketball...and this is coming from a 4/ 5 position player...who in my view was 10x the player Tim Duncan ever was....its not even close comparing Hakeem who was far far superior offensively and defensively to Tim...but back to your point Tim Duncan had it easy...while the whole world was gunning for Kobe...every single night....his body gave out because he simply gave more..look at the global impact on the game...people around the world in every country from Asia, China especially China :lol, the Middle East, just about every country in Europe, South America, Africa you name it they all worship Kobe....
The US business moguls from Apple CEO, Facebook, Oprah Winfrey, billionaires such as Richard Branson, Warren Buffet, etc all doing business with and mentoring Kobe...all of the Hollywood elites love Kobe....Floyd Mayweather, Manny Paqucio and atheletes from across all sports such as football, baseball etc all point to Kobe as their inspiration....99% of the All-time greats such as MJ, Kareem, Dr J, Larry Bird, Magic, even Red Auerbach's daughter all have Kobe ranked behind MJ....99% of current players including every rookie class since 2000 all have Kobe as their favorite player and the consensus #2 behind MJ....almost every Olympic atheistic from every country in the world all love Kobe..shit don't make me bump all my old threads on how all those white female Olympians from the Swim teams, to the Vollyball teams to the soccer teams all going crazy over that nigga when he steps into the building...I'm jealous as fuck of this nigga :lol
But my point is simple...Tim Duncan pales in comparison to Kobe....its not even close in the grand scheme of things...that's why I let Spur fans have their moment...deep inside they know Tim is not on Kobes level...and if they don't they're delusional...what I've just layed out is proof...Tim plays in pressure less Market...where court side seats sell for as low as 13 cents :lol no way the accomplishments are the same...every night as you mentioned teams ran 2 and 3 athletic wing defenders at Kobe at all times...some of the games most atheletic and competitive players we've ever seen...
From MJ, to Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, Steve Nash, Tracy Mcgrady, Allen Iverson, Dwade, Lebron James, Mike Bobby, Ron Artest, Tony Allen, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Bruce Bowen, Doug Christie, Rueben Patterson, Grant Hill, Jason Richardson, Vince Carter, Jason Kidd, Jamal Masburn, Jimmy Jackson, Kevin Durant, Westbrook, and on and on and on and on....
What's even more astounding aside from the partial list of tough players Kobe had to defend and play against is the fact that once he got past those athletic players he had to deal with the bigs down low from the 3 to the 5 positions and boy did he ever...thats why I laugh my ass off when people like DPG, Splits, Midnight Pulp, DMC, and KillaKobe say that Duncan was a better player and had a better career..especially in light of position played, title defense :lol and Olympic team contribution...the level of ignorance they show is astounding....
But like I said let them have their moment :lmao
weebo
12-01-2015, 07:25 PM
Can't go wrong with either player--each means what they do to the respective denizens of their respective cities. One thing is for sure is that they both will go down as some of the greatest players in the NBA. There is no validity to the majority of posts on here-it is all subjected. What's the point in arguing? Doesn't get you any closer to claim responsibility for both team' celebrated success. I enjoyed watching both. I'm a Laker fan,though, and so I would inherently side with the Lakers. But I recognize what Duncan did and that was amazing to see unfold throughout my youth.
The NBA tried to manufacture another "Air Jordan" type (Grant Hill, VC, TMac, Jerry Stachouse :lol) and failed. Along came the Shaq led lakers and roll off a three peat and all of a sudden kirby is raping white women, buying 4 million dollar rings, throwing teammates under the bus and becomes the second coming of Jordan. Was he a great scorer? Yes, but so was AI and for the NBA market machine that was good enough to proclaim kirby as the closets thing to MJ. The sheep drank the Kool Aid and kirby was annoited the heir apparent. Had it been anyone else on those stacked laker teams ( TMac, AI, VC) instead of kirby, we would be comparing them to Duncan.
Raven
12-01-2015, 07:30 PM
no way is kirby in the discussion for top 5 of his era.
weebo
12-01-2015, 07:30 PM
What the hell does all this shit really have to do with basketball? :lmao
All the "love" kirby gets from all these sheep has more to do with the fact kirby got the hype and he and everyone bought it hook line and sinker...it doesn't make kirby >Duncan :lol
Koolaid_Man
12-01-2015, 07:31 PM
The NBA tried to manufacture another "Air Jordan" type (Grant Hill, VC, TMac, Jerry Stachouse :lol) and failed. Along came the Shaq led lakers and roll off a three peat and all of a sudden kirby is raping white women, buying 4 million dollar rings, throwing teammates under the bus and becomes the second coming of Jordan. Was he a great scorer? Yes, but so was AI and for the NBA market machine that was good enough to proclaim kirby as the closets thing to MJ. The sheep drank the Kool Aid and kirby was annoited the heir apparent. Had it been anyone else on those stacked laker teams ( TMac, AI, VC) instead of kirby, we would be comparing them to Duncan.
The 1000lb elephant in the room you so casually choose to ignore is?
Tmac, AI, and Vince that you use to make your case all have 0 rings between them...whereas Kobe has 2 without Shaq while Shaq only 1 without Kobe..
Conclusion?
You fail :lol
Koolaid_Man
12-01-2015, 07:33 PM
What the hell does all this shit really have to do with basketball? :lmao
All the "love" kirby gets from all these sheep has more to do with the fact kirby got the hype and he and everyone bought it hook line and sinker...it doesn't make kirby >Duncan :lol
So your dumbass knows something that the whole world doesn't ?
Yeah ok :lmao whatever you say jackass
Horse
12-01-2015, 07:36 PM
You guys are asking and answering different questions, but still the questions you'd rather answer than the one being asked. Who was the greatest player of their generation? It's not about longevity, not about peak, not about anything other than that question. You look at the entire body of work, and to say anyone was better than Duncan is foolish, since his accolades span his career and his output and results have never dipped below playoff level basketball.
And he's not done yet. Pick any Spur even today and Duncan is the most reliable playoff performer.
weebo
12-01-2015, 07:37 PM
The 1000lb elephant in the room you so casually choose to ignore is?
Tmac, AI, and Vince that you use to make your case all have 0 rings between them...whereas Kobe has 2 without Shaq while Shaq only 1 without Kobe..
Conclusion?
You fail :lol
shit son put AI on the lakers with Shaq and we would be talking who's greater AI or Duncan :lol
and those 2 that kobe got without shaq he can thank Pau, LO, and Bynum...its no fucking mystery the lakers only won when they had dominant front lines...kirby was a great complimentary piece though give you that :lol
Koolaid_Man
12-01-2015, 07:57 PM
shit son put AI on the lakers with Shaq and we would be talking who's greater AI or Duncan :lol
and those 2 that kobe got without shaq he can thank Pau, LO, and Bynum...its no fucking mystery the lakers only won when they had dominant front lines...kirby was a great complimentary piece though give you that :lol
Same ole love song...zippede-do-dah....woulda coulda shoulda
LkrFan
12-01-2015, 07:58 PM
If Colorado never happened, the narrative changes. It wouldn't even be a debate. Colorado cost him #6 in 2004. Colorado permanently shit stained his image with White Americans (who dominate the media and pay most of the bills like merchandise and ticket sales). Colorado cost him a few more MVPs. Colorado will cause his inevitable retirement to not be celebrated like an MJ or a KAJ. He's made millions (upwards of $720 million?) but Colorado cost him more because for a spell he lost his endorsements (and they were given to the Kang - SMFH). His shoe and other merchandise sales should only be second to MJ, but it won't be. Yeah, Colorado cost him more than meets the eye. LkrFan or not, he's the player of his generation and that's no knock on Duncan, tbh.
Silver&Black
12-01-2015, 08:02 PM
If Colorado never happened, the narrative changes.
If ifs were fifths, we'd all be drunk Cesar....
TDMVPDPOY
12-01-2015, 08:06 PM
u notice all kirbystan fans always bring up duncans name to think kirby is even comparable
u never see mainstream fans bring up kirbys name when comparing duncan to someone, that someone is usually shaq or someone higher on t he GOAT lists...
kirby has no business being compared to duncan, a fkn coatrider compared to a franchise player?
Cry Havoc
12-01-2015, 08:06 PM
If Colorado never happened, the narrative changes. It wouldn't even be a debate. Colorado cost him #6 in 2004. Colorado permanently shit stained his image with White Americans (who dominate the media and pay most of the bills like merchandise and ticket sales). Colorado cost him a few more MVPs. Colorado will cause his inevitable retirement to not be celebrated like an MJ or a KAJ. He's made millions (upwards of $720 million?) but Colorado cost him more because for a spell he lost his endorsements (and they were given to the Kang - SMFH). His shoe and other merchandise sales should only be second to MJ, but it won't be. Yeah, Colorado cost him more than meets the eye. LkrFan or not, he's the player of his generation and that's no knock on Duncan, tbh.
:lmao
why would you want a filipino man to be touching that... faggot
When an American thinks of having sex with a Chinese woman, he thinks of a Filipino man.
That bronze medal is much lower than missing the playoffs. Jims response to miserably failing was even worse. "FIBA SUCKS!!!"
- Jim Huckleberry
Non-NBA level shit need not apply.
And he's not done yet. Pick any Spur even today and Duncan is the most reliable playoff performer.
That statement comes with a caveat emptor: You don't rely on him to produce 25 and 12 a night in the playoffs. He can do those numbers on some nights, but not consistently, not any more.
Mitch
12-01-2015, 08:29 PM
I consider players drafted in the 90s being part of that generation, so Shaq takes title.
LkrFan
12-01-2015, 08:54 PM
If ifs were fifths, we'd all be drunk Cesar....cierto que! :lmao
Kool Bob Love
12-01-2015, 09:00 PM
I consider players drafted in the 90s being part of that generation, so Shaq takes title.
This is the real debate. Imma give it to TD still.
BTW hope all is swell Mitch. :toast
Mitch
12-01-2015, 09:09 PM
This is the real debate. Imma give it to TD still.
BTW hope all is swell Mitch. :toast
All good, KBL. Family heading back 'till Christmas.
You and the blood have a good holidays so far?
100%duncan
12-01-2015, 09:22 PM
http://i.imgur.com/Yu5zq3S.png
whitemamba
12-01-2015, 09:22 PM
You guys are asking and answering different questions, but still the questions you'd rather answer than the one being asked. Who was the greatest player of their generation? It's not about longevity, not about peak, not about anything other than that question. You look at the entire body of work, and to say anyone was better than Duncan is foolish, since his accolades span his career and his output and results have never dipped below playoff level basketball.
Tim Duncan hasn't been the "guy" in SA for a long time , Kobe has been for a while and still is.. People play Kobe harder , and always have. He gets the opponents best game every night even when he is a scrub like
now. See if u can spot the difference..
Kool Bob Love
12-01-2015, 09:25 PM
All good, KBL. Family heading back 'till Christmas.
You and the blood have a good holidays so far?
im glad to hear that Mitch!
Yes, best holiday season for us so far. God willin we end 2015 on a high note.
I consider players drafted in the 90s being part of that generation, so Shaq takes title.
So Jordan was from the 80's, even if he won all his rings in the 90's. Great fucking logic, Bitch... err.. Mitch.
Tim Duncan hasn't been the "guy" in SA for a long time , Kobe has been for a while and still is.. People play Kobe harder , and always have. He gets the opponents best game every night even when he is a scrub like
now. See if u can spot the difference..
If SA wanted to miss the playoffs every year Corey Joseph could be "the guy".
What a fucking stupid take.
Is not even a contest. Duncan is the better player.
whitemamba
12-01-2015, 09:57 PM
If SA wanted to miss the playoffs every year Corey Joseph could be "the guy".
What a fucking stupid take.
Some people want that responsibility while others hide in the shadows. Don't make a retarded comparison.
Mitch
12-01-2015, 10:09 PM
So Jordan was from the 80's, even if he won all his rings in the 90's. Great fucking logic, Bitch... err.. Mitch.
And Shaq won all of his in the 2000s, big deal. Keep chugging along, fatass.
Killakobe81
12-01-2015, 10:14 PM
It's not really a debate. It's Duncan and it's not close. Sorry Killa. Part of what you have to take into account when you get into the top 10 of all-time is more than just the numbers. Duncan has, is, and always will be the consummate teammate. You pick him because you know he's going to bring you titles and you're never, ever going to have to ship someone down the river to appease him. He isn't a child in a man's body who's going to throw tantrums to the media in the middle of a freakin' Larry O'Brien chase. He's never going to feud with players or do any of the juvenile BS that can destroy team chemistry.
It's Duncan and it's not close. The stats are in his favor, and his resume as a teammate massively tilts the balance.
If there's a fantasy draft with every player in history, there are probably 3-5 players, at best, you consider taking before Tim.
No need to apologize for your opinion which is all this is. And I never said it was that close I said just closer than most here would admit which is what you just did btw ... but It's Duncan.
HarlemHeat37
12-01-2015, 10:21 PM
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/14264125/who-was-better-kobe-bryant-tim-duncan
Genuinely surprised that casual NBA fans have flip-flopped, tbh..
:lol California and Arizona..
midnightpulp
12-01-2015, 10:30 PM
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/14264125/who-was-better-kobe-bryant-tim-duncan
Genuinely surprised that casual NBA fans have flip-flopped, tbh..
:lol California and Arizona..
I guess this truth is too self-evident.
Kawhitstorm
12-01-2015, 10:36 PM
Kobe's highs were higher than Jims,.
Could you please provide me the data: the only thing Kobe did better than Tim at his PEAK was volume scoring, tbh:lol
Splits
12-01-2015, 10:36 PM
I suppose Harlem means "haven't flip-flopped". Duncan even wins RoW with all those chinamen voting :lol
http://i.imgur.com/RYEJw0o.png
weebo
12-01-2015, 11:28 PM
I suppose Harlem means "haven't flip-flopped". Duncan even wins RoW with all those chinamen voting :lol
http://i.imgur.com/RYEJw0o.png
A fuckin landslide :lol
And lkrfan thought that their glorified tmac was better The Legend
Kawhitstorm
12-01-2015, 11:39 PM
I suppose Harlem means "haven't flip-flopped". Duncan even wins RoW with all those chinamen voting :lol
http://i.imgur.com/RYEJw0o.png
So, Asians in Cali & Messicans in Arizona plus 3 shitty states: Idiaho, Vermont, South Dakota:lmao
Splits
12-01-2015, 11:45 PM
So, Asians in Cali & Messicans in Arizona plus 3 shitty states: Idiaho, Vermont, South Dakota:lmao
Idaho: 14 votes (8 to 6)
South Dakota: 15 votes (9 to 6)
Vermont: 5 votes (3 to 2)
:lol
Kobe really hurt his image by not retiring after the injury, tbh..I don't think I've seen a player's legacy do a 180 so quickly:lol..
Could have ended his career in legendary fashion, making a FT after tearing his Achilles..would have been the lasting memory for everybody..
We're talking about Kobe, he's not leaving 50 mil on the table.
And Shaq won all of his in the 2000s, big deal. Keep chugging along, fatass.
Keep moving the goal post Bitch, eventually you might score.
Some people want that responsibility while others hide in the shadows. Don't make a retarded comparison.
You doubled down on stupid. Did the Kobe retirement send you into full retard mode? Kobe is just the "famous" face in LA. He's far from being a leader of anything other than salary and missed shots.
RsxPiimp
12-02-2015, 12:18 AM
You doubled down on stupid. Did the Kobe retirement send you into full retard mode? Kobe is just the "famous" face in LA. He's far from being a leader of anything other than salary and missed shots.
Shouldn't you be sleeping by now? Fuck are you up so late anyway....
Shouldn't you be sleeping by now? Fuck are you up so late anyway....
Because I'm a grown ass man who goes to bed when he wants. I don't have a "need" to be in bed, don't open any laundry or donut shop. I work from my home.
Mitch
12-02-2015, 01:07 AM
Keep moving the goal post Bitch, eventually you might score.
Keep saying dumb shit and pretending to make sense, sausage fingers.
Keep saying dumb shit and pretending to make sense, sausage fingers.
https://s.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/w7segpSBbkinh3herG0oxg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztmaT1maWxsO2g9NDgzO3B5b2ZmPT A7cT03NTt3PTQyMg--/http://media.zenfs.com/en-us/homerun/complex.com/c3341a64bb7fc93ec049939a97ce84ae
Tell me again how Tim is in the 90's generation when Shaq himself issued this out to people... Bitch.
HI-FI
12-02-2015, 01:43 AM
Kobe is a legendary sociopath so I can see how he's manipulated the media and third worlders that make up his fanbase. But anyone that loves the game or winning is going to pick Duncan imo.
BatManu20
12-02-2015, 01:43 AM
Here's another one with over half a million votes. It's unanimous.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVMgz6zUYAAS7dv.jpg
Mitch
12-02-2015, 02:04 AM
https://s.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/w7segpSBbkinh3herG0oxg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztmaT1maWxsO2g9NDgzO3B5b2ZmPT A7cT03NTt3PTQyMg--/http://media.zenfs.com/en-us/homerun/complex.com/c3341a64bb7fc93ec049939a97ce84ae
Tell me again how Tim is in the 90's generation when Shaq himself issued this out to people... Bitch.
Highlight when I said "90s generation" when I was referring to Shaq and/or Tim fatass.
J_Paco
12-02-2015, 02:05 AM
At 39 years old, Tim Duncan is still a vital piece to a championship contending team, is still an elite rim protector and is a top 10 player at his position (center).
At 37 years old, Kobe is a complete has been playing on an all-time terrible team/roster (in the Lakers franchise history), bogging the team down with his highly inflated salary and ball-hogging to an eventual sub 30% field goal percentage.
Ask me again, who is the best player of his generation? Cause the answer surely doesn't involve that bum wearing #24 in purple and piss.
Kawhitstorm
12-02-2015, 03:36 AM
Highlight when I said "90s generation" when I was referring to Shaq and/or Tim fatass.
Kobe got drafted BEFORE Tim but yet he isn't part of the the 90s generation. I guess he doesn't qualify b/c he was a scrubby ass bench player:lol
BatManu20
12-02-2015, 04:22 AM
Found this comment in the ESPN-Poll comment section.
Kobe was obviously the better scorer and assist man throughout his career, but Duncan's definitely been the better overall player and will have had the better career when it's all said and done. Duncan's a better defender, better rebounder, better shot-blocker (top 5 all-time), better team player (sacrificed personal stats & took numerous paycuts to better the team, Kobe did the exact opposite), and most importantly, the better winner.
If you really want to dig deep and look at Advanced Statistics (Off. efficiency, Def. efficiency, PER, +/-, win shares, etc.), other than Assist % & Off. Win Shares, Duncan is better than Kobe in EVERY SINGLE CATEGORY over the span of their careers. Every single one. Duncan has a career PER of 24.4, Kobe has a career 23.1.
If you want to talk hardware, Duncan wins there too: More MVPs, more Finals MVPs, & ROY Award. Accolades? Duncan has Kobe beat once again: More All-NBA Defensive teams, same amount of All-NBA teams as Kobe in one fewer season, only 2 less All-Star game appearances in one fewer season (only b/c Kobe was voted in last season by the fans when he clearly shouldn't have), and also has a better playoff record than Kobe. Duncan was also the unquestioned leader for his first 3 Titles, Kobe wasn't. Duncan has never gone a single season without winning at least 50 games in his entire career, Kobe has gone 7 seasons (likely 8 after this year). Duncan is 12th All-Time in Win Shares, Kobe is 50th (!!).
For eveyone that wants to say Duncan had more help, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili did not have a single All-Star game appearance between them until 2005-2006. Duncan had already led his team to 2 Championships and was in the middle of winning his 3rd. David Robinson didn't win anything until Tim Duncan was drafted, and was far past his prime in 2003 for Duncan's 2nd title. Tim had help, but not any super-stars around him like Kobe had Shaq for his first 3 Titles. And don't act like Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum, Derek Fisher, & Lamar Odom weren't awesome contributors during the Lakers' '08 & '09 Titles.
Both are historically great players who will go down as 2 of the best to ever play the game of basketball, and I mean no disrespect to Kobe b/c he truly is a great player, but all the signs point to Duncan being the best player of his generation. Numbers don't lie. Not to mention Duncan is still playing really well and contributing to a winning team, whereas Kobe Bryant has completely fallen off and has frankly been hard to watch over the past 2 years. So, all in all, Duncan > Kobe.
Kidd K
12-02-2015, 05:05 AM
No problem with Duncan as the answer..
it's closer than Spur fan will admit ...
But it's Duncan.
LOL at the draft debate who wouldnt take a seasoned Duncan out of college over Kobe straight out of HS?! LeBron was the best prospect from HS I ever saw and I would have still chosen Duncan ... what does that prove?:lol
what a dumb reason given by Spradley ...just say Duncan is better ... or you flat out prefer Tim.
Actually that draft hypothetical tweeted would include Kobe with a year or two of college time (otherwise I agree, that isn't fair and the choice is obv). I'd select Duncan over Kobe at any age except those early 2010s where Duncan played hurt and distracted all season to have a couple of his worst seasons while Kobe was still good. There were few seasons I would have taken Kobe instead.
TDMVPDPOY
12-02-2015, 05:59 AM
lol TOSB kirby
Killakobe81
12-02-2015, 09:08 AM
Actually that draft hypothetical tweeted would include Kobe with a year or two of college time (otherwise I agree, that isn't fair and the choice is obv). I'd select Duncan over Kobe at any age except those early 2010s where Duncan played hurt and distracted all season to have a couple of his worst seasons while Kobe was still good. There were few seasons I would have taken Kobe instead.
Even then it wouldnt make much sense though. Coming out of school even if you did not know what Duncan would become in the NBA who would you legitimately take over Tim? I know some here thought Oden would be better if healthy but I NEVER saw that type of skill from him. I wont lie and say I knew Tim would be the GOAT PF or surpass Shaq (I thought that after Tim's rookie year though) but I knew he would be great based off his high skill level. Tim was the best college prospect since Shaq. Without hind sight I dont think it's close ...
Lebron? may be a greater NBA player (eventually) but coming out of HS you aint taking him over Tim
Kobe? No.
Durant? no.
Adavis? no
Melo? No
Dwight? No.
Duncan was a legit college star big men in a tough conference. Duncan should be the answer every year going back to Shaq. No way you take Tim over Shaq though ...
ambchang
12-02-2015, 12:53 PM
The only prospect anyone would take over Tim in the history of NBA would be Shaq, Hakeem, Kareem, and Wilt. Magic has a case, Lebron has a case.
Duncan was legit.
Killakobe81
12-02-2015, 01:18 PM
The only prospect anyone would take over Tim in the history of NBA would be Shaq, Hakeem, Kareem, and Wilt. Magic has a case, Lebron has a case.
Duncan was legit.
David , Ewing and Robinson too ...no way you take Lebron or Magic out of HS and college over Tim unless you already had a center.
Killakobe81
12-02-2015, 01:19 PM
Ewing and David were bigger stars in college no way Tim gets picked over them ...
Koolaid_Man
12-02-2015, 01:23 PM
The only prospect anyone would take over Tim in the history of NBA would be Shaq, Hakeem, Kareem, and Wilt. Magic has a case, Lebron has a case.
Duncan was legit.
I'm not picking a phaggot regardless :lol so Tammy is disqualified
Koolaid_Man
12-02-2015, 01:29 PM
Tim Duncan had it easy...no real competition and basically just a lazy ass....standing in the paint with your hands up asking for the ball is weak sauce....that negro ayed nowhere near the level of Kobe..he's subservient...he let Pop control his ass...he's weak mentally...that's why his ass lost 27 million due to various schemes....
midnightpulp
12-02-2015, 01:31 PM
Tim Duncan had it easy...no real competition and basically just a lazy ass....standing in the paint with your hands up asking for the ball is weak sauce....that negro ayed nowhere near the level of Kobe..he's subservient...he let Pop control his ass...he's weak mentally...that's why his ass lost 27 million due to various schemes....
Good luck in the lottery, Kool :toast
Koolaid_Man
12-02-2015, 01:35 PM
Tim Duncan had it easy...no real competition and basically just a lazy ass....standing in the paint with your hands up asking for the ball is weak sauce....that negro ayed nowhere near the level of Kobe..he's subservient...he let Pop control his ass...he's weak mentally...that's why his ass lost 27 million due to various schemes....
spursistan
12-02-2015, 01:39 PM
After the fact, tell an owner you are going to get 17 consecutive season of +50 win season including 5 rings, and you would have him straight ordering his GM to pick Timmy over anybody in the history of the game but MJ, IMO..
Duncan longevity and constant steady self for near two decades (see his per 36) and how that has translated for franchise are something I'm confident won't be replicated any time soon..Let's face it, Parker/Ginobili, two primary sidekicks, and 6 years of post-prime D-Rob would barely get you one fifth of you have accomplished..
Kawhitstorm
12-02-2015, 03:06 PM
Found this comment in the ESPN-Poll comment section.
Kobe was obviously the better scorer and assist man throughout his career.
Tim at his peak was a good a playmaker as Kobe & had a higher points-per-shot ratio. The only thing Kobe did better was volume scoring, FT shooting, 3 pt shooting.
apalisoc_9
12-02-2015, 03:17 PM
Kobe is the mainstream china man take. That should tell you who the better player is
Tim>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .30%
ambchang
12-02-2015, 04:27 PM
David , Ewing and Robinson too ...no way you take Lebron or Magic out of hs and college over Tim unless yiu alreafu had a center.
Oh yeah, how can I forget Ewing?
Robinson was a maybe.
I'd say Magic was a legit choice. Lebron was the chosen one, he was supposed to be greater than all who came before him, even straight out of high school. In retrospect, Lebron likely would have benefited with 2 years in college or something like that.
ambchang
12-02-2015, 04:33 PM
Tim Duncan had it easy...no real competition and basically just a lazy ass....standing in the paint with your hands up asking for the ball is weak sauce....that negro ayed nowhere near the level of Kobe..he's subservient...he let Pop control his ass...he's weak mentally...that's why his ass lost 27 million due to various schemes....
The list of star players in their prime who Duncan had to match up with: Shaq, Garnett, Webber, Rasheed, Ben Wallace, MVPau, Marc Gasol.
The list of star players in their prime who Kobe had to match up with: TMac, Carter, Ray Allen.
Hmmm ....... weaker competition? Shaq and Garnett was better than anyone Kobe ever went up against.
Then with regards to the $25M .... how much did Kobe lose in future advertising money with his nightly stink bombs? $100M? $200M?
Killakobe81
12-02-2015, 04:46 PM
Oh yeah, how can I forget Ewing?
Robinson was a maybe.
I'd say Magic was a legit choice. Lebron was the chosen one, he was supposed to be greater than all who came before him, even straight out of high school. In retrospect, Lebron likely would have benefited with 2 years in college or something like that.
I think Magic and Lebron because of size and charisma would definitely have been considered. and the fact Magic won at every level was very intriguing ... but when you consider how much the game revolved around pivot play until recently ... not sure that you would even take those two over Duncan as rookies.
Best out of college prospects I ever saw:
1. Ewing
2. Shaq
3. David
4. Hakeem
5. Jordan
6. Durant
7. Webber
Never saw Magic, bird Kareem play except on old school film. Out of the college guys only the centers would I definitely take over Duncan based off their college "tape". Jordan, Durant and Webber would of made me consider them absolutely ...But at the time and even after Jordan I dont think you ever went HOF caliber wing over HOF caliber big until Lebron.
Amazing that he would get you to consider him that based off HS. I saw him play on youtube he was amazing but Tim did what he did against men not players half his height ...smart money would have been on Duncan.
As for Shaq so dominant. I tell you (and this has nothing to do with Kobe) if he TRULY wanted it Shaq would have been the no doubt about it best big since Kareem ... I watched Shaq dunk over and around triple teams in the SEC through hard contact. It was so amazing he was so strong but still quick. Sad he never maxed his potential. Still a dominant HOF'er. But not even ewing was as dominant force on offense. On defense Ewing was the truth the Hoya Destroya was the best defensive center I ever saw in college. In the pros he got better on offense but I thought his defense slipped ...
I consider players drafted in the 90s being part of that generation, so Shaq takes title.
Highlight when I said "90s generation" when I was referring to Shaq and/or Tim fatass.
lol self fuckage
Mitch
12-02-2015, 08:28 PM
lol self fuckage
And where did I say the 90s generation, moron? I said players drafted in the 90s only, but the topic of this thread is the generation involving Timothy & Kobe.
So again, fatfuck, where did I specifically mention the 90s generation?
The only prospect anyone would take over Tim in the history of NBA would be Shaq, Hakeem, Kareem, and Wilt. Magic has a case, Lebron has a case.Duncan was legit.Wilt was dominating 6'8 white guys not only in college but also in the NBA. No player in NBA history is more overrated than the choking phaggot. He was 7'1 with the athleticism of a modern-day Dwight Howard and yet he only managed to win 2 freaking titles in arguably the weakest era for big men. 6'9 Russell routinely butffucked Wilt everytime they faced off.
ambchang
12-02-2015, 09:35 PM
I think Magic and Lebron because of size and charisma would definitely have been considered. and the fact Magic won at every level was very intriguing ... but when you consider how much the game revolved around pivot play until recently ... not sure that you would even take those two over Duncan as rookies.
Best out of college prospects I ever saw:
1. Ewing
2. Shaq
3. David
4. Hakeem
5. Jordan
6. Durant
7. Webber
Never saw Magic, bird Kareem play except on old school film. Out of the college guys only the centers would I definitely take over Duncan based off their college "tape". Jordan, Durant and Webber would of made me consider them absolutely ...But at the time and even after Jordan I dont think you ever went HOF caliber wing over HOF caliber big until Lebron.
Amazing that he would get you to consider him that based off HS. I saw him play on youtube he was amazing but Tim did what he did against men not players half his height ...smart money would have been on Duncan.
As for Shaq so dominant. I tell you (and this has nothing to do with Kobe) if he TRULY wanted it Shaq would have been the no doubt about it best big since Kareem ... I watched Shaq dunk over and around triple teams in the SEC through hard contact. It was so amazing he was so strong but still quick. Sad he never maxed his potential. Still a dominant HOF'er. But not even ewing was as dominant force on offense. On defense Ewing was the truth the Hoya Destroya was the best defensive center I ever saw in college. In the pros he got better on offense but I thought his defense slipped ...
I guess I was looking at it a little differently from you, where it's really more about hype and stuff. Jordan wasn't really that hyped coming out of school. People look at the Bowie pick as stupid, but it wasn't really that bad of a pick at the point, it was a genuine debate.
Webber was just too mentally weak, he was the shaq of pfs with handles but there were questions about his maturity and decision making on the court.
Shaq was the bomb. He would be goat if he had the drive of the other greats. He just never really dedicated himself.
Robinson would've been great with shooters around him. He would have easily been top 10 if he had a better supporting cast.
Durant wasn't that hyped up at least with Oren being the hype. Oden was the better pick at that point. Hindsight is 20/20 but Oden was the next Robinson.
ambchang
12-02-2015, 09:37 PM
Wilt was dominating 6'8 white guys not only in college but also in the NBA. No player in NBA history is more overrated than the choking phaggot. He was 7'1 with the athleticism of a modern-day Dwight Howard and yet he only managed to win 2 freaking titles in arguably the weakest era for big men. 6'9 Russell routinely butffucked Wilt everytime they faced off.try doing some research.
100%duncan
12-02-2015, 09:44 PM
LA fans, your boy is losing another Sportscenterespn poll :lol
And where did I say the 90s generation, moron? I said players drafted in the 90s only, but the topic of this thread is the generation involving Timothy & Kobe.
So again, fatfuck, where did I specifically mention the 90s generation?
Come off it mate. You know what you inferred and so do I.
You're the one who invoked Shaq, not me. Shaq, who spend 8 years in the league pre-2000 and somehow magically bypasses the Jordan era.
Mitch
12-02-2015, 10:58 PM
Come off it mate. You know what you inferred and so do I.
You're the one who invoked Shaq, not me. Shaq, who spend 8 years in the league pre-2000 and somehow magically bypasses the Jordan era.
Spin it the way you want, I never referred to the 90s era chubcicle. Why don't you backtrack to your picture of Shaq putting himself in that era that you used to argue against me.
Spin it the way you want, I never referred to the 90s era chubcicle. Why don't you backtrack to your picture of Shaq putting himself in that era that you used to argue against me.
Mitch is Philo 2.0. Tireless rebutter, always responds. lol
Shaq put himself in the 2000's because he didn't want to be compared to Hakeem. Shaq was washed up halfway through the decade. Tim rang in 99, 2003. 2005, 2007 and 2014. Shaq had a peak higher than almost anyone I've ever witnessed, but his era was in the 90's, unless you think a person can spend two 4 year contracts in one decade yet be from the next generation. This aint Star Trek, Bitch.
Mitch
12-02-2015, 11:14 PM
Mitch is Philo 2.0. Tireless rebutter, always responds. lol
Shaq put himself in the 2000's because he didn't want to be compared to Hakeem. Shaq was washed up halfway through the decade. Tim rang in 99, 2003. 2005, 2007 and 2014. Shaq had a peak higher than almost anyone I've ever witnessed, but his era was in the 90's, unless you think a person can spend two 4 year contracts in one decade yet be from the next generation. This aint Star Trek, Bitch.
What a fucking clown, trying to fight his way out of a paper bag with assumptions and deflections. Hakeem was drafted in '84 you idiot, Shaq a few years shy of a decade later.
Keep pulling assumptions out of your diabetic folds of fat.
Killakobe81
12-02-2015, 11:16 PM
I guess I was looking at it a little differently from you, where it's really more about hype and stuff. Jordan wasn't really that hyped coming out of school. People look at the Bowie pick as stupid, but it wasn't really that bad of a pick at the point, it was a genuine debate.
Webber was just too mentally weak, he was the shaq of pfs with handles but there were questions about his maturity and decision making on the court.
Shaq was the bomb. He would be goat if he had the drive of the other greats. He just never really dedicated himself.
Robinson would've been great with shooters around him. He would have easily been top 10 if he had a better supporting cast.
Durant wasn't that hyped up at least with Oren being the hype. Oden was the better pick at that point. Hindsight is 20/20 but Oden was the next Robinson.
1. Jordan was the poty wooden award winner iirc. No one knew he would be GOAT but he was absolutely a star at UNC.
2. DURANT WAS one of the most productive freshamn of the modern era. Sure i live in DFW so i saw him more than most but Bill Simmons and a few other hoops heads argued for Blazers to take Durant. I never saw the grace of adavid even before his knee exploded.hindsight is 20/20 but you can go back and see thst i said Durant was the better player right on these forums.
3. Webber was not only gifted but had huge hands and the best player of the Fab 5.
What a fucking clown, trying to fight his way out of a paper bag with assumptions and deflections. Hakeem was drafted in '84 you idiot, Shaq a few years shy of a decade later.
Keep pulling assumptions out of your diabetic folds of fat.
Look at any "best NBA players of the 90s" list and you'll see Shaq along with David, Charles, Patrick, Hakeem, Michael, Karl, Stockton and such. You won't see Tim.
You're an ass clown if you disagree with that. You cannot be one of the best players of that generation but belong to the next one.
Mitch
12-02-2015, 11:59 PM
Shaq spent 8 years in the 90's NBA. That's "just a few years shy of a decade".
lol Mitch, shitty alt Philo.
You know, sausage fingers, that's the second time you've misread a simple sentence to fit your own autofellating shtick. I'm cashing out, either you're too dumb to talk to or being stupid is your defense mechanism.
You know, sausage fingers, that's the second time you've misread a simple sentence to fit your own autofellating shtick. I'm cashing out, either you're too dumb to talk to or being stupid is your defense mechanism.
Mitch, losing per par and quitting like Kobe.
Shaq entering league in 1992, only 4 years after David but somehow in the same generation as Lebron who entered in 2003. lol...
midnightpulp
12-03-2015, 12:13 AM
It doesn't matter which generation you put Shaq, Duncan is still the overall better player. People are still living off the memories of "peak Shaq" and wrongly rating him on his offense dominance only, as old media type of fans (like Mitch) tend to do. Indeed, Shaq was a tier above Duncan in scoring, but Duncan was tier above on defense. Duncan was also better at the "little things" like pick setting and adjusting to game conditions. Their passing out of double teams and to cutters is about even, but Duncan is a much better outlet passer.
The two players are close, but Duncan edges Shaq out as the more complete and effective player.
RsxPiimp
12-03-2015, 12:14 AM
LA fans, your boy is losing another Sportscenterespn poll :lol
Brah, you a Yaya dub fan?
100%duncan
12-03-2015, 12:21 AM
Brah, you a Yaya dub fan?
She's aight man, cute sometimes. I like Nadine more tbh. :wakeup
It doesn't matter which generation you put Shaq, Duncan is still the overall better player. People are still living off the memories of "peak Shaq" and wrongly rating him on his offense dominance only, as old media type of fans (like Mitch) tend to do. Indeed, Shaq was a tier above Duncan in scoring, but Duncan was tier above on defense. Duncan was also better at the "little things" like pick setting and adjusting to game conditions. Their passing out of double teams and to cutters is about even, but Duncan is a much better outlet passer.
The two players are close, but Duncan edges Shaq out as the more complete and effective player.
It actually does if you're comparing generations and someone uses the 3pt as evidence. That's fine, but Shaq was closer to David's generation than Tim's. Shaq just wasn't motivated early in his career, else we'd be like "Wilt who?"
RsxPiimp
12-03-2015, 12:42 AM
She's aight man, cute sometimes. I like Nadine more tbh. :wakeup
Yeah Nadine is pretty damn hot
100%duncan
12-03-2015, 12:47 AM
Yeah Nadine is pretty damn hot
Apir tbh
try doing some research.
You would seriously pick that bum over Tim? Wilt was a mental midget who simply dominated by just being bigger and more athletic than everyone. :lol
ambchang
12-03-2015, 01:52 PM
1. Jordan was the poty wooden award winner iirc. No one knew he would be GOAT but he was absolutely a star at UNC.
2. DURANT WAS one of the most productive freshamn of the modern era. Sure i live in DFW so i saw him more than most but Bill Simmons and a few other hoops heads argued for Blazers to take Durant. I never saw the grace of adavid even before his knee exploded.hindsight is 20/20 but you can go back and see thst i said Durant was the better player right on these forums.
3. Webber was not only gifted but had huge hands and the best player of the Fab 5.
Nobody knew Jordan was going to be what he became, except him. He was great in college, but Dean Smith's system really put the leash on him, and he wasn't showcased as much as he could be. Worthy and Perkins took a lot of the glory early on as well. Yes, he was a star, but a sure fire star? Not so much, or else he would have gone first.
Same for Durant, there will always be talks about somebody else deserving the #1 pick. People were talking about Keith Van Horne drafted before Duncan! Now obviously the gap between Duncan vs. KVH and Oden vs. Durant wasn't nearly as large, but the general consensus was that Oden was a can't miss, and the only red flag was his health. That red flag became a reality though.
Weber was highly hyped coming out of college, but he wasn't generally viewed as a saviour. People were more stoked about seeing Shaq team up with Weber with that ridiculously imposing frontline, but then Orlando (who did the right thing) traded him away for Hardaway and a bunch of picks.
They were all high-touted, but I don't really see any one of them more touted than Duncan.
ambchang
12-03-2015, 02:15 PM
You would seriously pick that bum over Tim? Wilt was a mental midget who simply dominated by just being bigger and more athletic than everyone. :lol
Didn't say that. But your rationale of why he was overrated was wildly inaccurate and full of exaggerations. Wilt's era wasn't filled with 6'8" midgets who are unathletic, he had some good competition.
Over the course of their careers, I will take Duncan over Wilt, even factoring in Wilt's individual dominance. Wilt was too much of a diva.
Didn't say that. But your rationale of why he was overrated was wildly inaccurate and full of exaggerations. Wilt's era wasn't filled with 6'8" midgets who are unathletic, he had some good competition.
Over the course of their careers, I will take Duncan over Wilt, even factoring in Wilt's individual dominance. Wilt was too much of a diva.
So which players during Wilt's era who were as good or better than Duncan's? Wilt didn't have to face the likes of KG, Shaq, Malone, Webber, Gasol brothers, and Dirk--yet Duncan beat them all. Wilt's greatest rivals were Kareem and Russell, yet he mightily struggled to beat both. Wilt was nothing more than a leaner and slightly skilled version of DeMonkey Jordan if he played today. He got by with size and athleticism and when those attributes declined as he aged, he simply stopped being relevant. No GM in his right mind would pick Wilt over Duncan in the draft.
Kidd K
12-04-2015, 03:48 AM
Even then it wouldnt make much sense though. Coming out of school even if you did not know what Duncan would become in the NBA who would you legitimately take over Tim? I know some here thought Oden would be better if healthy but I NEVER saw that type of skill from Tim. I wont lie and say I knew Tim would be the GOAT PF or surpass Shaq (I thought that after Tim;s rookie year though) but I knew he would be great based off his high skill level. Tim was the best college prospect since Shaq. Without hind sight I dont think it's close ...
Lebron? may be a greater NBA player (eventually) but coming out of HS you aint taking him over Tim
Kobe? No.
Durant? no.
Adavis? no
Melo? No
Dwight? No.
Duncan was a legit college star big men in a tough conference. Duncan should be the answer every year going back to Shaq. No way you take Tim over Shaq though ...
Yep. As ambchang aluded to, you're pretty much only taking those legendary 7'0"+ superstar centers over Duncan in the draft (I saw you listed some extra ones in a later post too, and I agree).
It's too bad we're not seeing any more Ewings, Robinsons Olajuwons, etc anymore. It was fun to see them dominate many plays on both ends of the floor.
Killakobe81
12-04-2015, 09:30 AM
Nobody knew Jordan was going to be what he became, except him. He was great in college, but Dean Smith's system really put the leash on him, and he wasn't showcased as much as he could be. Worthy and Perkins took a lot of the glory early on as well. Yes, he was a star, but a sure fire star? Not so much, or else he would have gone first.
Same for Durant, there will always be talks about somebody else deserving the #1 pick. People were talking about Keith Van Horne drafted before Duncan! Now obviously the gap between Duncan vs. KVH and Oden vs. Durant wasn't nearly as large, but the general consensus was that Oden was a can't miss, and the only red flag was his health. That red flag became a reality though.
Weber was highly hyped coming out of college, but he wasn't generally viewed as a saviour. People were more stoked about seeing Shaq team up with Weber with that ridiculously imposing frontline, but then Orlando (who did the right thing) traded him away for Hardaway and a bunch of picks.
They were all high-touted, but I don't really see any one of them more touted than Duncan.
1. Back in the 80's a #3 pick is considered a sure-fire star. Especially in that draft. Hakeem was also a a star and a center so of course he went first . That doesnt mean Jordan was not a star. He was. He just suffered from the same thing Durant did. People fell in love with the potential of Bowie (who I saw in the SEC tournament his senior year he was absolutely a high upside big with hops and a nice skill set but he took a nasty fall in that tournament undercut on an oop IIRC). He was hurt a lot in college and the Blazers still chose him over J because teams always chose talented bigs which he was and also because they already had Drexler which is also part of the reason Blazers chose oden (they had Roy). And choosing Hakeem over Jordan was no mistake and no one questions it because Hakeem was also a star and a big ... Bowie didnt even win SEC POTY but did manage a 2nd team all-america award.
2. MJ was carrying UNC post Perkins and Worthy graduating.He not only won Wooden his junior year but won Naismith and sporting news .In fact he won SN POTY his sophmore and junior years. Pretty hard not to be a "star" when you sweep those awards in college. In fact, he is one of the few college players to win the SN award multiple years joining other stars like KAreem, Bill walton Oscar Robertson. Duncan only won it once. Again no one knew he would be a GOAt but to say he was not a star or hyped is blatantly false. Portland just made a bad choice or at the very least a bad gamble given Bowie's injury history ...
3. durant also won SN and Naismith the first ever freshman to win the award.Agin i am not disputing that most of the media was in love with Oden. He was hard worker, team player and had trmendous size along with Robinson "lite" type athleticism. but when i watched that cat something seemed off to me. Simmons captured it well (from a debate with Chad Ford:
f I'm Portland's GM, I just spent the last five weeks wondering about Greg Oden. What's his ceiling? Can he be better than Patrick Ewing? Alonzo Mourning? Can he become as dominant as Tim Duncan? Should I be worried about his surgically repaired wrist, or the fact that he might suffer back problems some day because his legs are different sizes? What about the fact that he likes basketball, but doesn't love it? The thing is, all these franchise centers are basically the same -- it just comes down to their inherent will to dominate a game. Hakeem had that will, Duncan has it, Moses had it, Shaq had it in 2000 and 2001 ... for whatever reason, Ewing didn't have it, and neither did Mourning or Robinson. Can you see Oden stepping onto a basketball court and saying, "There's no way we're losing this f-ing game. I'm destroying the other team tonight." For some reason, I can't.
Well, Durant plays that way every game. He's a cold-blooded killer. I hate pre-draft workouts, but didn't you find it interesting that Oden was nervous, awkward and apologetic during his workout in Portland, but a confident Durant strolled in there two days later and blew everyone away? You know what's funny about that? I knew that was going to happen. One guy plays basketball because he was created to play basketball; the other plays because he was bigger than everyone else and it seemed like the logical thing to do. If there was a pickup game and Oden was on one side, Durant was on the other, and your life depended on the game, you'd pick Durant. You would.So if Portland takes Oden, it will happen because of conventional NBA logic (you always take the franchise center), because their fans are pushing for him (obviously, nobody watches college basketball in Portland) and because he's a personable, gregarious, likable big guy for a city that's desperately needed a personable, gregarious, likable big guy ever since Bill Walton ditched Portland for San Diego. I'm not saying those reasons are wrong. In fact, I understand them completely. But if I'm Portland's GM, I'm taking the guy with a legitimate chance to go down with Bird, Magic, MJ, Baylor, Oscar, West, Duncan, Pettit, Havlicek and every other great non-center who ever played in the National Basketball Association. I'm taking Kevin Durant.
4. As for Van Horn he played in a joke (mountain West?)conference. With inflated numbers. he was very good college player that hit some big shots. But was not the star Duncan was who played in the rough ACC. and won the awards Durant and Jordan won ...
Killakobe81
12-04-2015, 09:33 AM
Simmons was right about shaq in 2000 (whole year)and 2001 (playoffs and Finals) not sure I would take Jordan over Shaq ...but why didnt we see THAT shaq more often?
Killakobe81
12-04-2015, 09:45 AM
From the same Simmons article:
Bill: At long last, I get to realize my lifelong dream of running the Celtics. For my first act, I'm firing Doc Rivers and hiring Rick Carlisle.
Chad Ford: Rick Carlisle is NOT an upgrade over Doc Rivers.
Simmons owning a ESPN NBA insider ..i cant believe people actually pay for stuff like this.
Also:
Bill: just make sure the trainer keeps putting in those one and a half inch lifts in Oden's left sneaker so his legs are the same size. Also, you might want to have him wear a splint during practice so he doesn't reinjure that bum wrist. Oh, and he's going to be nervous on Opening Night, for every Portland game and every playoff game -- just prescribe him a drug called Valerian, it calms the nerves and shouldn't affect his play too much. Good luck and congrats on getting the next Patrick Ewing.
Chad: As long as Oden has five healthy fingers to put those championship rings on ... I can live with it. :rollin
dgspursforlife
12-04-2015, 11:37 AM
can you link that article killa
Killakobe81
12-04-2015, 12:57 PM
can you link that article killa
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=nbamockdraft/070627
Killakobe81
12-04-2015, 01:02 PM
can you link that article killa
and this is from 2008 ... BS rubbing it in after oden got hurt ...
Simmons: Chad, you glossing over what happened with Oden versus Durant, the defining draft-day debate of this decade, would be like Richard Nixon playing the "Except for Watergate, I think I did a pretty good job!" card. I backed Durant for three reasons: I thought he had a chance to become a truly dominant offensive player; I thought Oden was too nice of a guy; and I thought Oden was headed for a career of health problems. As Tommy Heinsohn would say, bing, bang, boom! If Kevin Pritchard called Sam Presti right now and said, "Hey, we'll give you Oden for Durant," Presti would either hang up or ask him, "What else are you throwing in the deal?" Do you really think Oden -- the guy who's coming off microfracture surgery and wrist surgery in consecutive years, the guy who has one leg that's an inch and a half shorter than the other, the guy who walks like a 50-year-old man -- has more value in the NBA than the 2008 rookie of the year? You can't really think that, right?
Ford: Bill, you're claiming victory already? Have you had a "Mission Accomplished" banner printed yet?
Listen, the Oden microfracture thing hurt. But from everything I can gather, Oden will be fine. Oden is 19 years old. I think we can give him a few years. It's not like Kevin Durant set the Sonics on fire this year. Durant spent most of they year jacking up ugly 3s while watching his team get blown out. So while it's clear Durant was and will be better than Oden for the next few years, it doesn't matter. In five years, we'll be talking about Oden as the most dominant big man in the game, the Blazers will be competing for championships and Durant will be scoring 30 points a night in Oklahoma City.
I'm not saying Durant is a bad pick, but I still think the future is Oden, even with the microfracture surgery.
Chad ford refusing to admit he was wrong:lmao
Killakobe81
12-04-2015, 01:12 PM
Sportsguy33: On John Wall (Ben's question): I think there are four potential All-Stars in this draft (Wall, Turner, Favors, Cousins) and that's it. Of those four he has the best chance of being an All-Star by far. But he's a fairly weak No. 1 overall pick I think. Agree or disagree Chad?
Chad Ford, ESPN Insider: Disagree. He has the athleticism of Derrick Rose (true) and the command of the floor of a Jason Kidd (FALSE!!!)... he's going to be a stud. Better than Rose or Rondo in my opinion.
Sportsguy33: I don't see the "command of the floor"/Kidd thing at all. He's not the same passer. Love his athleticism and I think as an open-court player on both ends and a fill-in-the-blanks guy, I see the Kidd thing ... but I don't think he has Kidd's vision.
Ford is actually pretty horrible at his job ...
baseline bum
12-04-2015, 02:16 PM
Sportsguy33: On John Wall (Ben's question): I think there are four potential All-Stars in this draft (Wall, Turner, Favors, Cousins) and that's it. Of those four he has the best chance of being an All-Star by far. But he's a fairly weak No. 1 overall pick I think. Agree or disagree Chad?
Chad Ford, ESPN Insider: Disagree. He has the athleticism of Derrick Rose (true) and the command of the floor of a Jason Kidd (FALSE!!!)... he's going to be a stud. Better than Rose or Rondo in my opinion.
Sportsguy33: I don't see the "command of the floor"/Kidd thing at all. He's not the same passer. Love his athleticism and I think as an open-court player on both ends and a fill-in-the-blanks guy, I see the Kidd thing ... but I don't think he has Kidd's vision.
Ford is actually pretty horrible at his job ...
None of this was as bad as Ford's daily article before and after the 2003 draft about how Darko was a better pick for Cleveland than LeBron. :lmao
baseline bum
12-04-2015, 02:19 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=nbamockdraft/070627
Holy shit, Chad Ford talking about how he'd take Oden because Durant will bolt for a large market? :lmao
How much shittier a market can you get than OKC and Durant has stayed loyal as fuck to them.
Killakobe81
12-04-2015, 03:01 PM
None of this was as bad as Ford's daily article before and after the 2003 draft about how Darko was a better pick for Cleveland than LeBron. :lmao
GTFO!! Are you serious he is a bigger dumbass than I thought ...
ambchang
12-04-2015, 03:03 PM
So which players during Wilt's era who were as good or better than Duncan's? Wilt didn't have to face the likes of KG, Shaq, Malone, Webber, Gasol brothers, and Dirk--yet Duncan beat them all. Wilt's greatest rivals were Kareem and Russell, yet he mightily struggled to beat both. Wilt was nothing more than a leaner and slightly skilled version of DeMonkey Jordan if he played today. He got by with size and athleticism and when those attributes declined as he aged, he simply stopped being relevant. No GM in his right mind would pick Wilt over Duncan in the draft.
Why are you moving the goalpost?
Wilt was dominating 6'8 white guys not only in college but also in the NBA. No player in NBA history is more overrated than the choking phaggot. He was 7'1 with the athleticism of a modern-day Dwight Howard and yet he only managed to win 2 freaking titles in arguably the weakest era for big men. 6'9 Russell routinely butffucked Wilt everytime they faced off.
And I again, I never said I'd take Wilt over Duncan, I said the reasons you provided to support you claims requires additional research.
Beating other players is subjective. If you want to talk about h2h records, it's a team accomplishment. Wilt averaged 34.4ppg and 28.4rpg vs. Russell when he was with the warriors, and 21.9 ppg and 27.9 rpg when he was with the 76ers. I wouldn't call that struggling (even though his points dropped, his rebounds went up, and his FG% stayed pretty constant, which was a function of not actually getting the ball, or being forced to pass with heavy double/triple teams).
He averaged 18/25/5 assists vs. Kareem, with many of those games played while he was way past his prime. That was far from struggling.
Wilt also had to play against Thurmond, Reed, Walt Bellemy, and Jerry Lucas. The 60s had a number of great centers.
ambchang
12-04-2015, 03:05 PM
1. Back in the 80's a #3 pick is considered a sure-fire star. Especially in that draft. Hakeem was also a a star and a center so of course he went first . That doesnt mean Jordan was not a star. He was. He just suffered from the same thing Durant did. People fell in love with the potential of Bowie (who I saw in the SEC tournament his senior year he was absolutely a high upside big with hops and a nice skill set but he took a nasty fall in that tournament undercut on an oop IIRC). He was hurt a lot in college and the Blazers still chose him over J because teams always chose talented bigs which he was and also because they already had Drexler which is also part of the reason Blazers chose oden (they had Roy). And choosing Hakeem over Jordan was no mistake and no one questions it because Hakeem was also a star and a big ... Bowie didnt even win SEC POTY but did manage a 2nd team all-america award.
2. MJ was carrying UNC post Perkins and Worthy graduating.He not only won Wooden his junior year but won Naismith and sporting news .In fact he won SN POTY his sophmore and junior years. Pretty hard not to be a "star" when you sweep those awards in college. In fact, he is one of the few college players to win the SN award multiple years joining other stars like KAreem, Bill walton Oscar Robertson. Duncan only won it once. Again no one knew he would be a GOAt but to say he was not a star or hyped is blatantly false. Portland just made a bad choice or at the very least a bad gamble given Bowie's injury history ...
3. durant also won SN and Naismith the first ever freshman to win the award.Agin i am not disputing that most of the media was in love with Oden. He was hard worker, team player and had trmendous size along with Robinson "lite" type athleticism. but when i watched that cat something seemed off to me. Simmons captured it well (from a debate with Chad Ford:
f I'm Portland's GM, I just spent the last five weeks wondering about Greg Oden. What's his ceiling? Can he be better than Patrick Ewing? Alonzo Mourning? Can he become as dominant as Tim Duncan? Should I be worried about his surgically repaired wrist, or the fact that he might suffer back problems some day because his legs are different sizes? What about the fact that he likes basketball, but doesn't love it? The thing is, all these franchise centers are basically the same -- it just comes down to their inherent will to dominate a game. Hakeem had that will, Duncan has it, Moses had it, Shaq had it in 2000 and 2001 ... for whatever reason, Ewing didn't have it, and neither did Mourning or Robinson. Can you see Oden stepping onto a basketball court and saying, "There's no way we're losing this f-ing game. I'm destroying the other team tonight." For some reason, I can't.
Well, Durant plays that way every game. He's a cold-blooded killer. I hate pre-draft workouts, but didn't you find it interesting that Oden was nervous, awkward and apologetic during his workout in Portland, but a confident Durant strolled in there two days later and blew everyone away? You know what's funny about that? I knew that was going to happen. One guy plays basketball because he was created to play basketball; the other plays because he was bigger than everyone else and it seemed like the logical thing to do. If there was a pickup game and Oden was on one side, Durant was on the other, and your life depended on the game, you'd pick Durant. You would.So if Portland takes Oden, it will happen because of conventional NBA logic (you always take the franchise center), because their fans are pushing for him (obviously, nobody watches college basketball in Portland) and because he's a personable, gregarious, likable big guy for a city that's desperately needed a personable, gregarious, likable big guy ever since Bill Walton ditched Portland for San Diego. I'm not saying those reasons are wrong. In fact, I understand them completely. But if I'm Portland's GM, I'm taking the guy with a legitimate chance to go down with Bird, Magic, MJ, Baylor, Oscar, West, Duncan, Pettit, Havlicek and every other great non-center who ever played in the National Basketball Association. I'm taking Kevin Durant.
4. As for Van Horn he played in a joke (mountain West?)conference. With inflated numbers. he was very good college player that hit some big shots. But was not the star Duncan was who played in the rough ACC. and won the awards Durant and Jordan won ...
Not disputing any of that, but the fact remained that Jordan and Durant were not as highly touted as Duncan coming out of college, or else they would have gone at least 2nd and 1st, respectively. Unless you want to argue Bowie and Oden were both more highly touted than Duncan coming out of college, which I would disagree.
Killakobe81
12-04-2015, 03:11 PM
Not disputing any of that, but the fact remained that Jordan and Durant were not as highly touted as Duncan coming out of college, or else they would have gone at least 2nd and 1st, respectively.
I am saying going where they went doesnt prove any of that. My point being that Jordan was probably a bigger star than Hakeem but Hakeem was also a star and a center so he went first. Rose went first so did Wall were they bigger stars than Jordan? Saying he went 3rd doesnt prove your case. I was never arguing that some of those guys were better "prospects" than Tim. Tim went first because like I said he was the best college prospect since shaq and I dont think even though Lebron was a national star anyone would Take him over tim because he was the better "prospect". But I think Webber although not the better player was a bigger star in college than Tim. So was Melo. Star does not equal always who you take first. You could argue Alonzo and definitely Laettener were bigger "stars" than Shaq but who went first in the draft?
Arcadian
12-04-2015, 03:25 PM
It doesn't matter which generation you put Shaq, Duncan is still the overall better player.
This. Shaq is notoriously difficult to classify because he peaked in the late 90s/early 00s. He has even said that he was "in between generations" or something to that effect.
But either way, he wasn't the best of his generation. 90s Hakeem > 90s Shaq, and 00s Duncan > 00s Shaq.
Killakobe81
12-04-2015, 03:29 PM
This. Shaq is notoriously difficult to classify because he peaked in the late 90s/early 00s. He has even said that he was "in between generations" or something to that effect.
But either way, he wasn't the best of his generation. 90s Hakeem > 90s Shaq, and 00s Duncan > 00s Shaq.
I agree. except 2000 Shaq (whole year) and 2001 Shaq is more dominant than either guy. But you did nail that perfect ...when looking at body of work.
Cry Havoc
12-04-2015, 03:31 PM
1. Back in the 80's a #3 pick is considered a sure-fire star. Especially in that draft. Hakeem was also a a star and a center so of course he went first . That doesnt mean Jordan was not a star. He was. He just suffered from the same thing Durant did. People fell in love with the potential of Bowie (who I saw in the SEC tournament his senior year he was absolutely a high upside big with hops and a nice skill set but he took a nasty fall in that tournament undercut on an oop IIRC). He was hurt a lot in college and the Blazers still chose him over J because teams always chose talented bigs which he was and also because they already had Drexler which is also part of the reason Blazers chose oden (they had Roy). And choosing Hakeem over Jordan was no mistake and no one questions it because Hakeem was also a star and a big ... Bowie didnt even win SEC POTY but did manage a 2nd team all-america award.
2. MJ was carrying UNC post Perkins and Worthy graduating.He not only won Wooden his junior year but won Naismith and sporting news .In fact he won SN POTY his sophmore and junior years. Pretty hard not to be a "star" when you sweep those awards in college. In fact, he is one of the few college players to win the SN award multiple years joining other stars like KAreem, Bill walton Oscar Robertson. Duncan only won it once. Again no one knew he would be a GOAt but to say he was not a star or hyped is blatantly false. Portland just made a bad choice or at the very least a bad gamble given Bowie's injury history ...
3. durant also won SN and Naismith the first ever freshman to win the award.Agin i am not disputing that most of the media was in love with Oden. He was hard worker, team player and had trmendous size along with Robinson "lite" type athleticism. but when i watched that cat something seemed off to me. Simmons captured it well (from a debate with Chad Ford:
f I'm Portland's GM, I just spent the last five weeks wondering about Greg Oden. What's his ceiling? Can he be better than Patrick Ewing? Alonzo Mourning? Can he become as dominant as Tim Duncan? Should I be worried about his surgically repaired wrist, or the fact that he might suffer back problems some day because his legs are different sizes? What about the fact that he likes basketball, but doesn't love it? The thing is, all these franchise centers are basically the same -- it just comes down to their inherent will to dominate a game. Hakeem had that will, Duncan has it, Moses had it, Shaq had it in 2000 and 2001 ... for whatever reason, Ewing didn't have it, and neither did Mourning or Robinson. Can you see Oden stepping onto a basketball court and saying, "There's no way we're losing this f-ing game. I'm destroying the other team tonight." For some reason, I can't.
Well, Durant plays that way every game. He's a cold-blooded killer. I hate pre-draft workouts, but didn't you find it interesting that Oden was nervous, awkward and apologetic during his workout in Portland, but a confident Durant strolled in there two days later and blew everyone away? You know what's funny about that? I knew that was going to happen. One guy plays basketball because he was created to play basketball; the other plays because he was bigger than everyone else and it seemed like the logical thing to do. If there was a pickup game and Oden was on one side, Durant was on the other, and your life depended on the game, you'd pick Durant. You would.So if Portland takes Oden, it will happen because of conventional NBA logic (you always take the franchise center), because their fans are pushing for him (obviously, nobody watches college basketball in Portland) and because he's a personable, gregarious, likable big guy for a city that's desperately needed a personable, gregarious, likable big guy ever since Bill Walton ditched Portland for San Diego. I'm not saying those reasons are wrong. In fact, I understand them completely. But if I'm Portland's GM, I'm taking the guy with a legitimate chance to go down with Bird, Magic, MJ, Baylor, Oscar, West, Duncan, Pettit, Havlicek and every other great non-center who ever played in the National Basketball Association. I'm taking Kevin Durant.
4. As for Van Horn he played in a joke (mountain West?)conference. With inflated numbers. he was very good college player that hit some big shots. But was not the star Duncan was who played in the rough ACC. and won the awards Durant and Jordan won ...
It's going to be awkward discussing this in 5 years when Durant is still ringless...
daslicer
12-04-2015, 03:35 PM
Before Durant was drafted I felt that he was a McGrady clone except taller.
Killakobe81
12-04-2015, 03:39 PM
It's going to be awkward discussing this in 5 years when Durant is still ringless...
For who Simmons? I never said all of that about durant only that I thought he was one of the best college scorers I ever saw and seemed more legit than what I saw out of Oden.
But even if Durant never rings I think Simmons crushed Chad Ford in this argument. Durant has an MVP and two scoring titles. Add those together and Oden has more total knee surgeries.
Killakobe81
12-04-2015, 03:39 PM
Before Durant was drafted I felt that he was a McGrady clone except taller.
Good comparison not as explosive but a better shooter.
Cry Havoc
12-04-2015, 03:54 PM
Before Durant was drafted I felt that he was a McGrady clone except taller.
I don't see KD with nearly the handles that TMac had. Durant plays like a hybrid guard/forward. McGrady was a straight-up 6'8" guard. Way more explosive power to the rim, but not nearly the shot that KD is.
Cry Havoc
12-04-2015, 03:56 PM
For who Simmons? I never said all of that about durant only that I thought he was one of the best college scorers I ever saw and seemed more legit than what I saw out of Oden.
But even if Durant never rings I think Simmons crushed Chad Ford in this argument. Durant has an MVP and two scoring titles. Add those together and Oden has more total knee surgeries.
Yes, for Simmons. And yes, Simmons did well, I just hate anytime someone lists "will to win" as an attribute. It's such an esoteric thing and can be captured by a lot of other factors.
Killakobe81
12-04-2015, 03:59 PM
Yes, for Simmons. And yes, Simmons did well, I just hate anytime someone lists "will to win" as an attribute. It's such an esoteric thing and can be captured by a lot of other factors.
OF course you cant judge that, but certain guys you can sense or feel it from. For example look at Tim's interview after the won the West ... right before the Spurs kicked the Heat's ass in 2014. You could tell duncan wasnt going to let "6" happen again. Did you see it? if you did that was what Simmons was talking about ...some player have it. Timmy, Jordan Kobe some don't Malone, Ewing David.
Killakobe81
12-04-2015, 04:01 PM
Here is the quote:
After the Spurs outlasted the Thunder 112-107 in overtime in Game 6 on Saturday to win the Western Conference title, Duncan was asked about playing for the championship against the Heat for the second year in a row.
“We have four more [games] to win,” the Spurs' big man told TNT's David Aldridge. “We’ll do it this time.”
Cry Havoc
12-04-2015, 04:02 PM
OF course you cant judge that, but certain guys you can sense or feel it from. For example look at Tim's interview after the won the West ... right before the Spurs kicked the Heat's ass in 2014. You could tell duncan wasnt going to let "6" happen again. Did you see it? if you did that was what Simmons was talking about ...some player have it. Timmy, Jordan Kobe some don't Malone, Ewing David.
It's really easy to retroactively apply this. Simmons thinks Durant has "it". I don't think "it" exists. Do you think Durant has that "will to win"?
Brazil
12-04-2015, 04:11 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=nbamockdraft/070627
thanks for the quote
holy shit Simmons just made another asshole to Chad without even asking permission tnh
Killakobe81
12-04-2015, 04:52 PM
It's really easy to retroactively apply this. Simmons thinks Durant has "it". I don't think "it" exists. Do you think Durant has that "will to win"?
IDK I never said that. I think so but starting to have my doubts. He is a maybe. But you have watched Tim a long time ... you did not see "it" when he was a rookie? I did.
Raven
12-04-2015, 04:58 PM
it's really Duncan vs Ginobili.
baseline bum
12-04-2015, 05:10 PM
GTFO!! Are you serious he is a bigger dumbass than I thought ...
Every fucking day. ducks used to post his articles every day in the Spurs forum (he has hated LeBron since he was in HS lol).
Troll thread and suddenly a basketball discussion breaks out. You can't have a fucking forum nowadays.
baseline bum
12-04-2015, 05:25 PM
GTFO!! Are you serious he is a bigger dumbass than I thought ...
Seriously, Chad Ford's hard-on for Darko is like nothing I have ever seen from any other NBA journalist. Way worse than Ahmad Rashad and Jordan; think on par with the Kawhi only fans upstairs. He would constantly write articles about his workouts, how he would be the best bigman since Duncan, how Darko played against men while James was just beating boys, how Darko was more mentally tough, how Darko had every move with his back to the basket, how Darko loved contact, how Darko was a complete bigman.
ambchang
12-04-2015, 07:08 PM
I am saying going where they went doesnt prove any of that. My point being that Jordan was probably a bigger star than Hakeem but Hakeem was also a star and a center so he went first. Rose went first so did Wall were they bigger stars than Jordan? Saying he went 3rd doesnt prove your case. I was never arguing that some of those guys were better "prospects" than Tim. Tim went first because like I said he was the best college prospect since shaq and I dont think even though Lebron was a national star anyone would Take him over tim because he was the better "prospect". But I think Webber although not the better player was a bigger star in college than Tim. So was Melo. Star does not equal always who you take first. You could argue Alonzo and definitely Laettener were bigger "stars" than Shaq but who went first in the draft?
You are talking about different drafts. And I know you are not that stupid. Point wasn't where they went in the draft, point was where they went in the draft respective to other players. If Jordan was a better prospect than Hakeem and bowie, he would've been drafted before them, unless you are talking about totally retarded GMs drafting Russell over okafor. Jordan wasn't drafted before Bowie and it wasn't a horrible choice at that point.
Same with Durant. It was a majority that rated Oden higher than Durant and Oden wasn't as touted as Duncan.
ambchang
12-04-2015, 10:47 PM
OF course you cant judge that, but certain guys you can sense or feel it from. For example look at Tim's interview after the won the West ... right before the Spurs kicked the Heat's ass in 2014. You could tell duncan wasnt going to let "6" happen again. Did you see it? if you did that was what Simmons was talking about ...some player have it. Timmy, Jordan Kobe some don't Malone, Ewing David.
Ewing guanranteed the championship multiple times. If he had a few more all star caliber players on his team and won a championship, he'd suddenly be known as the guy with the will to win.
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