SI: Why Kawhi Leonard could be the heir to Kobe Bryant's throne

[manu2timdynasty]

http://www.si.com/nba/2015/12/01/kobe-bryant-kawhi-leonard-lebron-james-michael-jordan-open-floor

[BatManu20]

Read this last night. Chris Mannix is one of my favorite NBA writers. People will overreact to this article, but he makes some compelling cases. Kawhi will never be Kobe, but that's a good thing imo. He's a much better defender than Kobe ever was and he's not nearly the black hole Kobe was offensively, either. He's much more of a team player and can fit in any system.

[manu2timdynasty]

Read this last night. Chris Mannix is one of my favorite NBA writers. People will overreact to this article, but he makes some compelling cases. Kawhi will never be Kobe, but that's a good thing imo. He's a much better defender than Kobe ever was and he's not nearly the black hole Kobe was offensively, either. He's much more of a team player and can fit in any system.

Agreed Kawhi has the skill set, but he's not the selfish d-bag Kobe is.

[GSH]

More and more, Kawhi is making good decisions. Kobe never saw a shot he didn't like - as long as he was the one taking it.

Then again, you have to wonder what Kobe could have been like, playing under Pop and with other players to be good examples.

[SpursforSix]

More and more, Kawhi is making good decisions. Kobe never saw a shot he didn't like - as long as he was the one taking it.

Then again, you have to wonder what Kobe could have been like, playing under Pop and with other players to be good examples.

Seriously...he could be up there as GOAT had he played under Pop and with the Spurs organization. If they could have checked his ego from early on.

[SPURt]

I agree with the sentiments in this post about Kawhi being a far better defender. My question is this Kawhi's peak defense? Can he improve there? I think he is at the level of Jordan/Pippen on defense without the luxury of having a Jordan/Pippen next to him. The scary question is where is the offensive ceiling for Kawhi?

It's hard to conceive of a Spurs offense that would allow Kawhi to go off for 30 ppg. I think Kawhi is most comparable to Duncan. He has that DNA. He wants to win more than he wants to be famous. I think Tim is just as competitive as Jordan was and now we are getting to see what Duncan mentality looks like in a player with the physique and skill set of a Jordan/Kobe.

[xtremesteven33]

Kobe and Duncan under Pop?
:lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt::l obt::lobt:

[Old School 44]

There's a give and take playing for the Spurs. Even if you have Kobe/Jordan level talent, you'll never reach that kind of superstar level in the San Antonio market playing for Pop. The flip side is you will make the playoffs every year and you will be on a team that can compete for the title.

[TheDoctor]

Seriously...he could be up there as GOAT had he played under Pop and with the Spurs organization. If they could have checked his ego from early on.

When your whole career, moves, (among other things), is based on Michael Jordan there are very slim chances that somebody, in this case Pop, could have done anything to fix said ego imo. He didn't want to be MJ's successor, he wanted to be Michael Jeffrey Jordan.

[Cry Havoc]

"He has the ability to do what a Michael Jordan did at both ends,” Popovich said last month. “I don't mean he's Michael Jordan, but Michael played both ends of the floor. Kobe does the same thing, when he so desires."

Pop with the subtle beatdown. :lol

[ceperez]

You just never know... after last game's shooting performance... and that weird running hook shot he took... I don't know what Leonard's limit would be.

[TheDoctor]

Kobe and Duncan under Pop?
:lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt::l obt::lobt:

Kobe would have ended like Stephen Jackson tbh.

[SPURt]

When your whole career, moves, (among other things), is based on Michael Jordan there are very slim chances that somebody, in this case Pop, could have done anything to fix said ego imo. He didn't want to be MJ's successor, he wanted to be Michael Jeffrey Jordan.
That mentality sets great talent up for failure. Lebron faced it too. Wizards Jordan was so much better than 2015-16 Kobe. What Kobe has done to Lakers this year is the single most selfish season I've ever witnessed in any sport.

[SpursforSix]

When your whole career, moves, (among other things), is based on Michael Jordan there are very slim chances that somebody, in this case Pop, could have done anything to fix said ego imo. He didn't want to be MJ's successor, he wanted to be Michael Jeffrey Jordan.

I don't disagree. But if he had been with the Spurs from the beginning, it implies that he would also have had to have been willing to listen to Pop and curb his ego. Otherwise, he would have been gone.

[SPURt]

Kobe would have ended like Stephen Jackson tbh.
+∞

[xtremesteven33]

Kobe would have ended like Stephen Jackson tbh.

Jackson got mad about money in 2003. Spurs wouldve coughed up the dough for Kobe.

[TheDoctor]

Jackson got mad about money in 2003. Spurs wouldve coughed up the dough for Kobe.

I was talking more about character and demanding more playing time.

[midnightpulp]

I hope not. Kobe Bryant stopped working on defense in 2001, focusing 100% of his attention on offense. The fact he made so many All Defensive teams is a tragedy.

[SnakeBoy]

Pop with the subtle beatdown. :lol

:lol

[travis2]

Jackson got mad about money in 2003. Spurs wouldve coughed up the dough for Kobe.

Nobody coughed up the money for Jackson. He went FA because he didn't like the offer the Spurs made him, but ended up signing for less than the Spurs offered.

[letmk]

I hope not. Kobe Bryant stopped working on defense in 2001, focusing 100% of his attention on offense. The fact he made so many All Defensive teams is a tragedy.

Totally agreed. For all the accolades he got on offense, determination, leadership, championship pedigree, etc., he at least earns most of them if not deserving all. But on defense, he stopped playing defense at least 10 years ago. However, due to his offense outburst and his fierce/competitive image, he was added to All NBA defense team year after year since he was All-NBA First Team. Many times, even over TD and Bowen. While in actuality, he was playing at best league-average defense. It's a shame that advanced statistics like defense RPM was not existing at that time, and casual fans would never see how poorly he played on defense during all those years.

[Lostwingman]

Nobody coughed up the money for Jackson. He went FA because he didn't like the offer the Spurs made him, but ended up signing for less than the Spurs offered.

I thought the story was that he wanted to resign with the Spurs for the amount offered but was talked out of it by his agent?

[travis2]

I thought the story was that he wanted to resign with the Spurs for the amount offered but was talked out of it by his agent?

Whether it was his agent's idea or his, he still declined the offer...along with some offers by other teams, IIRC. And his Atlanta contract was significantly less (I want to say $4M offer from SA, $1M signing with Atlanta, but I won't guarantee that...some other old hands may remember the numbers better...)

[Brazil]

:lol wtf terrible comparaison tbh

[GSH]

I was talking more about character and demanding more playing time.

My first thought was that Kobe was good enough to get his contract, unlike Jackson. But if you were talking about "going out" the way Jackson did, demanding more playing time, and pouting when he didn't get his way? Yeah, that shit may have worked for Kobe in LA. But it wouldn't have played here. Even for Kobe.

[apalisoc_9]

Ew...

[TheGreatYacht]

Should've had "Kawhobe" trademarked :pctoss

[Maddog]

You just never know... after last game's shooting performance... and that weird running hook shot he took... I don't know what Leonard's limit would be.
That running hook was great! With his length and wide shoulders that could become a great weapon.


Whether it was his agent's idea or his, he still declined the offer...along with some offers by other teams, IIRC. And his Atlanta contract was significantly less (I want to say $4M offer from SA, $1M signing with Atlanta, but I won't guarantee that...some other old hands may remember the numbers better...)

There was a lot of back and forth. The Spurs told him to wait while they dealt with other contracts, and he felt "disrespected" He took a one year contract for way less than the multiyear the spurs where considering offering him. The gamble paid off as the following year he got a big deal from the pacers. The agent may have played a role, and maybe the Spurs where nervous offering him a lot of long term money...
I loved Jackson, but as is often the case, he definitely had his faults.

[Splits]

Kirby had one season with a DRtg under 100. Kawhi has one season over.

Kirby's DBPM never cracked 0.3 and was negative most years. Kawhi's career average is 3.0.

:lol this comparison

Edit: Kirby did have a DBPM of 1.7 in 2000, but other than that outlier...

[SpursFan86]

Haven't read the article, but the only similarity I really see is their post and mid-range games. Aside from that, they're vastly different.

Kawhi is a far better defender/rebounder than Kobe ever was, and is on pace to be a noticeably better 3-point shooter too. It's unrealistic (though not impossible) to expect Kawhi to ever be the ballhandler/playmaker Kobe was.

The comparison gets even more off base when you examine their personalities and demeanors.

[letmk]

Kirby had one season with a DRtg under 100. Kawhi has one season over.

Kirby's DBPM never cracked 0.3 and was negative most years. Kawhi's career average is 3.0.

:lol this comparison

Edit: Kirby did have a DBPM of 1.7 in 2000, but other than that outlier...

Where did you get those statistics for previous years? ESPN only has RPM for the last few years.

[Splits]

Where did you get those statistics for previous years? ESPN only has RPM for the last few years.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/

[SpursFan86]

Where did you get those statistics for previous years? ESPN only has RPM for the last few years.

RPM (real plus-minus) and BPM (box plus-minus, because it's based off box-score numbers) are two different stats.

[DMC]

Kobe in SA would have been like Odom in Dallas. He's not that type of player, not a team guy. It would have been bad for both sides.

[DMC]

I don't know why people try to compare others to Kobe. Kobe was never the best player in the league at any point in his career. Kawhi won DPOY last year, has a Finals MVP already and his game is climbing a sheer face. Leonard is a pure basketball player, on both ends the best on the team. The last time I saw that it was Tim Duncan, not Kobe.

[Kool Bob Love]

Kawhi has Kobe's choke gene.

[barakz21]

I('m actually surprised that with Kawhi's ascendance this year, there hasn't been much articles featuring him, and it's very disappointing the articles featuring him are actually very interesting and well written.

[DMC]

I('m actually surprised that with Kawhi's ascendance this year, there hasn't been much articles featuring him, and it's very disappointing the articles featuring him are actually very interesting and well written.
Really? You're surprised a Spurs player isn't getting a lot of media attention?

[bic50]

Kat loving Kent

[Kawhitstorm]

If we are talking about post hand check era players, offensively Kawhi has a game similar to Carmelo & defensively he's like Ron Artest on the Pacers.

[YGWHI]

I think Kawhi is most comparable to Duncan. He has that DNA. He wants to win more than he wants to be famous.
:bobo


Leonard is a pure basketball player, on both ends the best on the team. The last time I saw that it was Tim Duncan, not Kobe.

:bobo

[tmtcsc]

Did not read yet but the headline begs the question: What throne did Kobe ever have? Don't get me wrong, I think he was a GREAT offensive player with a killer instinct, but he could have been better had he not been so selfish.

[barakz21]

Really? You're surprised a Spurs player isn't getting a lot of media attention?

My bad, that's not what I meant exactly, just had a long day yesterday. But anyway, the past seasons, there has been articles about Kawhi every now and then, and they're actually pretty interesting reads. This season, there hasn't been any yet, which is kind of surprising given his ascendance as a star.

[Cklbmk]

That mentality sets great talent up for failure. Lebron faced it too. Wizards Jordan was so much better than 2015-16 Kobe. What Kobe has done to Lakers this year is the single most selfish season I've ever witnessed in any sport.


How so? He wasnt able to draw that replacement to the team so hes doing the next best thing and tanking for Simmons

[SPURt]

How so? He wasnt able to draw that replacement to the team so hes doing the next best thing and tanking for Simmons
I was talking about saying someone is the "next MJ". That isn't fair to the young player, especially if that player has a completely different body type like Lebron. Even if someone has a similar build to Jordan, like Kobe, Jordan still had Pippen. Kobe had Shaq and Gasol, but that's a lot different than prime Pippen.

[lilbthebasedgod]

How is Kauai not getting media attention? Seems to get a lot