View Full Version : NBA: Has Lebron won his last MVP?
Spurtacular
12-22-2015, 02:58 AM
Curry playing at an amazing level on the offensive end; Kawhi doing unparalleled things; Westbrook and Harden both desperate for an MVP before their windows close; Durant still prime; Anthony Davis bound to reemerge; Paul George seemingly recovered and hitting new highs; Blake Griffin in the mix; Jimmy Butler with room to improve.
Lebron is quickly becoming another face in the crowd. He still has great potential to win another MVP; but I do think statistically speaking, his best days are behind him.
100%duncan
12-22-2015, 03:34 AM
Yes. He got robbed of 2 though.
Joseph Kony
12-22-2015, 03:42 AM
imo he was the MVP last year too. He took a trash team with loser players that was in the lottery since he had left to the Finals and went something like 32-3 to end the season iirc. Curry couldn't even win the Finals MVP :lol
Spurtacular
12-22-2015, 05:00 AM
Yes. He got robbed of 2 though.
MVPs are politicized and rigged from time to time.
Spurtacular
12-22-2015, 05:04 AM
imo he was the MVP last year too. He took a trash team with loser players that was in the lottery since he had left to the Finals and went something like 32-3 to end the season iirc. Curry couldn't even win the Finals MVP :lol
Curry deserved it.
Also, the Cavs weren't really trash. They were the best team in their conference. They had three number one overall picks and three all-stars and some pretty good role players. Lebron didn't perform any miracles.
Curry deserved it.
Also, the Cavs weren't really trash. They were the best team in their conference. They had three number one overall picks and three all-stars and some pretty good role players. Lebron didn't perform any miracles.
Best team in their conference but never made the playoffs until Lebron came back. Are you fucking serious?
3 All Stars? Are you including Lebron?
What is an All Star? Kevin Love never saw the playoffs before Lebron, neither had Irving.
Do you think Love goes to Cleveland if Lebron stays in Miami?
Five consecutive Finals appearances even though he switched teams, and the team he switched to each time made the Finals in their first season.
Dude beat the Atlanta Hawks without Love or Irving.
Spurtacular
12-22-2015, 12:39 PM
Best team in their conference but never made the playoffs until Lebron came back. Are you fucking serious?
3 All Stars? Are you including Lebron?
What is an All Star? Kevin Love never saw the playoffs before Lebron, neither had Irving.
Do you think Love goes to Cleveland if Lebron stays in Miami?
Five consecutive Finals appearances even though he switched teams, and the team he switched to each time made the Finals in their first season.
Dude beat the Atlanta Hawks without Love or Irving.
Three fucking all-stars. They even called them "The Big Three". Making a fucking playoffs is grounds for an MVP? They would've made it without Lebron in that weak conference.
So because Love goes and helps Lebron he deserves an MVP? What kind of shit is that? I could care less if Love went to Cleveland or stayed in Minnesota or went wherever as far as the MVP goes. Beating the fucking Hawks matters for MVP? Well first off it doesn't cos it's the playoffs. But even if they counted those; it's the fucking Hawks!
Three fucking all-stars. They even called them "The Big Three". Making a fucking playoffs is grouinds for an MVP? They would've made it without Lebron in that weak conference.
So because Love goes and helps Lebron he deserves an MVP? What kind of shit is that? I could care less if Love went to Cleveland or stayed in Minnesota or went wherever as far as the MVP goes. Beating the fucking Hawks matters for MVP? Well first off it doesn't cos it's the playoffs. But even if they counted those; it's the fucking Hawks!
You cannot include Lebron and say "he has 3 all stars".
The MVP doesn't consider how far you got in the playoffs. It's a regular season award. The record for the Cavs over the past few years.. see if you can determine where Lebron left and came back.
h
Central
2nd
50
32
.610
Won First Round (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_NBA_Playoffs) vs. Washington Wizards (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005-06_Washington_Wizards_season), 4–2
Lost Conference Semifinals to Detroit Pistons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005-06_Detroit_Pistons_season), 4-3
LeBron James (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeBron_James) (AMVP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Star_Game_Most_Valuable_Player_Award))
Mike Brown (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Brown_(basketball,_born_1970))
[48] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cleveland_Cavaliers_seasons#cite_note-54)
2006–07 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006-07_Cleveland_Cavaliers_season)
Eastern
2nd
Central
2nd
50
32
.610
Won First Round (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NBA_Playoffs) vs. Washington Wizards (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006-07_Washington_Wizards_season), 4–0
Won Conference Semifinals vs. New Jersey Nets (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006-07_New_Jersey_Nets_season), 4–2
Won Conference Finals vs. Detroit Pistons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006-07_Detroit_Pistons_season), 4–2
Lost NBA Finals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NBA_Finals) to San Antonio Spurs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006-07_San_Antonio_Spurs_season), 4-0
—
Mike Brown
[49] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cleveland_Cavaliers_seasons#cite_note-55)
2007–08 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007-08_Cleveland_Cavaliers_season)
Eastern
4th
Central
2nd
45
37
.549
Won First Round (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_NBA_Playoffs) vs. Washington Wizards (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007-08_Washington_Wizards_season), 4–2
Lost Conference Semifinals to Boston Celtics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007-08_Boston_Celtics_season), 4-3
LeBron James (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeBron_James) (AMVP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Star_Game_Most_Valuable_Player_Award))
Mike Brown
[50] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cleveland_Cavaliers_seasons#cite_note-56)
2008–09 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008-09_Cleveland_Cavaliers_season)
Eastern
1st
Central
1st
66
16
.805
Won First Round (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_NBA_Playoffs) vs. Detroit Pistons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008-09_Detroit_Pistons_season), 4–0
Won Conference Semifinals vs. Atlanta Hawks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008-09_Atlanta_Hawks_season), 4–0
Lost Conference Finals to Orlando Magic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008-09_Orlando_Magic_season), 4-2
LeBron James (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeBron_James) (MVP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Most_Valuable_Player))
Mike Brown (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Brown_(basketball,_born_1970)) (COY (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Coach_of_the_Year))
Mike Brown
[51] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cleveland_Cavaliers_seasons#cite_note-57)
2009–10 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Cleveland_Cavaliers_season)
Eastern
1st
Central
1st
61
21
.744
Won First Round (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_NBA_Playoffs) vs. Chicago Bulls (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009-10_Chicago_Bulls_season), 4–1
Lost Conference Semifinals to Boston Celtics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009-10_Boston_Celtics_season), 4-2
LeBron James (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeBron_James) (MVP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Most_Valuable_Player))
Mike Brown
[52] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cleveland_Cavaliers_seasons#cite_note-58)
2010–11 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_Cleveland_Cavaliers_season)
Eastern
15th
Central
5th
19
63
.232
-
—
Byron Scott (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byron_Scott_(basketball))
[53] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cleveland_Cavaliers_seasons#cite_note-59)
2011–12 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%9312_Cleveland_Cavaliers_season)[nb 7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cleveland_Cavaliers_seasons#cite_note-11-12_lockout-60)
Eastern
13th
Central
5th
21
45
.318
-
Kyrie Irving (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrie_Irving) (ROY (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Rookie_of_the_Year_Award))
Byron Scott
[54] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cleveland_Cavaliers_seasons#cite_note-61)
2012–13 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_Cleveland_Cavaliers_season)
Eastern
13th
Central
5th
24
58
.293
-
—
Byron Scott
[55] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cleveland_Cavaliers_seasons#cite_note-62)
2013–14 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_Cleveland_Cavaliers_season)
Eastern
10th
Central
3rd
33
49
.402
-
Kyrie Irving (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrie_Irving) (AMVP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All_Star_Game_MVP))
Mike Brown
[56] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cleveland_Cavaliers_seasons#cite_note-63)
2014–15 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014%E2%80%9315_Cleveland_Cavaliers_season)
Eastern
2nd
Central
1st
53[57] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cleveland_Cavaliers_seasons#cite_note-64)
29[58] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cleveland_Cavaliers_seasons#cite_note-65)
.646[59] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cleveland_Cavaliers_seasons#cite_note-66)
Won First Round (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_NBA_Playoffs) vs. Boston Celtics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014-15_Boston_Celtics_season), 4–0
Won Conference Semifinals vs. Chicago Bulls (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014%E2%80%9315_Chicago_Bulls_season), 4–2
Won Conference Finals vs. Atlanta Hawks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014%E2%80%9315_Atlanta_Hawks_season), 4–0
Lost NBA Finals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_NBA_Finals) to Golden State Warriors (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_State_Warriors), 4-2
David Blatt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Blatt)
Now contrast that with the Miami Heat record during that same time
2006–07 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006%E2%80%9307_Miami_Heat_season)
Eastern (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Conference_(NBA))
4th
Southeast (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Division_(NBA))
1st
44
38
.537
—
Lost First Round (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NBA_Playoffs) (Bulls (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006%E2%80%9307_Chicago_Bulls_season)) 4–0
—
Pat Riley
2007–08 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%9308_Miami_Heat_season)
Eastern (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Conference_(NBA))
15th
Southeast (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Division_(NBA))
5th
15
67
.183
37
—
—
Pat Riley
2008–09 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008-09_Miami_Heat_season)
Eastern (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Conference_(NBA))
5th
Southeast (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Division_(NBA))
3rd
43
39
.524
16
Lost First Round (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_NBA_Playoffs) (Hawks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%9309_Atlanta_Hawks_season)) 4–3
—
Erik Spoelstra (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Spoelstra)
2009–10 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009-10_Miami_Heat_season)
Eastern (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Conference_(NBA))
5th
Southeast (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Division_(NBA))
3rd
47
35
.573
12
Lost First Round (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_NBA_Playoffs) (Celtics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Boston_Celtics_season)) 4–1
Dwyane Wade (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwyane_Wade) (AMVP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Star_Game_Most_Valuable_Player_Award))
Erik Spoelstra
2010–11 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010-11_Miami_Heat_season)
Eastern (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Conference_(NBA))
2nd
Southeast (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Division_(NBA))
1st
58
24
.707
—
Won First Round (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NBA_Playoffs) (76ers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_Philadelphia_76ers_season)) 4–1
Won Conference Semifinals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NBA_Playoffs) (Celtics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_Boston_Celtics_season)) 4–1
Won Conference Finals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NBA_Playoffs) (Bulls (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_Chicago_Bulls_season)) 4–1
Lost NBA Finals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NBA_Finals) (Mavericks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_Dallas_Mavericks_season)) 4–2
Pat Riley (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Riley) (EOY (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Executive_of_the_Year_Award))
Erik Spoelstra
2011–12 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011-12_Miami_Heat_season)[c] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Miami_Heat_seasons#cite_note-6)
Eastern (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Conference_(NBA))
2nd
Southeast (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Division_(NBA))
1st
46
20
.697
—
Won First Round (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_NBA_Playoffs) (Knicks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%9312_New_York_Knicks_season)) 4–1
Won Conference Semifinals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_NBA_Playoffs) (Pacers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%9312_Indiana_Pacers_season)) 4–2
Won Conference Finals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_NBA_Playoffs) (Celtics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%9312_Boston_Celtics_season)) 4–3
Won NBA Finals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_NBA_Finals) (Thunder (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%9312_Oklahoma_City_Thunder_season)) 4–1
LeBron James (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeBron_James)
(FMVP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Russell_NBA_Finals_Most_Valuable_Player_Award ) & MVP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Most_Valuable_Player_Award))
Erik Spoelstra
2012–13 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012-13_Miami_Heat_season)
Eastern (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Conference_(NBA))
1st
Southeast (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Division_(NBA))
1st
66
16
.805
—
Won First Round (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NBA_Playoffs) (Bucks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_Milwaukee_Bucks_season)) 4–0
Won Conference Semifinals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NBA_Playoffs) (Bulls (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_Chicago_Bulls_season)) 4–1
Won Conference Finals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NBA_Playoffs) (Pacers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_Indiana_Pacers_season)) 4–3
Won NBA Finals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NBA_Finals) (Spurs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_San_Antonio_Spurs_season)) 4–3
LeBron James (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeBron_James)
(FMVP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Russell_NBA_Finals_Most_Valuable_Player_Award ) & MVP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Most_Valuable_Player_Award))
Erik Spoelstra
2013–14 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_Miami_Heat_season)
Eastern (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Conference_(NBA))
2nd
Southeast (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Division_(NBA))
1st
54
28
.659
—
Won First Round (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_NBA_Playoffs) (Bobcats (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_Charlotte_Bobcats_season)) 4–0
Won Conference Semifinals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_NBA_Playoffs) (Nets (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_Brooklyn_Nets_season)) 4–1
Won Conference Finals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_NBA_Playoffs) (Pacers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_Indiana_Pacers_season)) 4–2
Lost NBA Finals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_NBA_Finals) (Spurs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_San_Antonio_Spurs_season)) 4–1
Shane Battier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_Battier) (TOTY (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twyman%E2%80%93Stokes_Teammate_of_the_Year_Award))
Erik Spoelstra
2014–15 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014%E2%80%9315_Miami_Heat_season)
Eastern (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Conference_(NBA))
10th
Southeast (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Division_(NBA))
3rd
37
45
.451
23
—
—
Erik Spoelstra
I guess it's the other people, not Lebron.
Spurtacular
12-22-2015, 12:53 PM
Whether Cleveland is something or whether they're balls is not grounds for an MVP selection dude. Curry outplayed Lebron while leading his team to greater heights.
LeBron absolutely was the correct last mvp last year. I made the case that he was guarantee a make up award this year, but it doesn't look good.curry is just too good that it would be a farce to ignore him.
Last year curry was not a front runner at all, he was running neck and neck with harden most of the year.
If you use both ends of the floor to decide, you'll pick Lebron. If you only consider offense, you'll pick Curry.
Whether Cleveland is something or whether they're balls is not grounds for an MVP selection dude. Curry outplayed Lebron while leading his team to greater heights.
As good as Curry was (and I have no problem with him getting the award), the single biggest difference maker in the NBA was Lebron James. Without Lebron the Cavs don't even make the playoffs, much less the Finals. If Klay and Green or AI go down in the 1st round, do you think the Warriors make the Finals?
ambchang
12-22-2015, 01:25 PM
He can still win the Finals MVP, or the AllStar game MVP.
Arcadian
12-22-2015, 01:39 PM
Yeah, probably.
JoeTait75
12-22-2015, 02:22 PM
By his own standards LeBron didn't even have a great year last year- lowest FG PCT since 2008-09, lowest 3PT PCT since 2010-11, lowest FT PCT since 2007-08 and the most TO per game in his entire career. Yet he still dragged the Cavaliers to the Finals practically single handedly. If a man doesn't have a particularly good year by his standards yet still does things no one else in the game is capable of doing, does he deserve the MVP award? I honestly don't know. I certainly had no problem w/Curry winning it.
SMH. I won't even get started so here you go. http://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2015/04/Kia-2014-15-MVP-Voting-Ballot-Results.pdf
Lebron didn't finish even top 5 in PER last season(number 6), didn't finish top 10 in winshares per 48 (Curry, Davis, Harden, Westbrook, Paul in top five), Not top ten in total winshares per game. Value over replacement: Stepehen Curry, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, Chris Paul, LeBron James...in that order.
It was Curry, Westbrook, and Harden, Davis, should have won mvp in that order. Even Chris Paul could have been considered before him easily.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2015_leaders.html?lid=header_leaders
Once again, memory is volatile for you all.
------------
Kevin Durant deserved the MVP...but by the smallest Margin ever.
LeBron's numbers are down which isn't' surprising. His prime season was against okc in the finals. He doesn't block shots or work as hard because he can't. His usage has taken a dive itself.
Derrick ROSE Did not deserve his mvp at all; fucking media driven bullshit. That was LeBron's mvp which would have given him 5 straight.
I checked as far back as 07-08 which is another MVP he deserved but SOMEHOW....somehow...Kobe Bryant of all people ended up with the MVP. How the fuck did that happen? He wasn't top 5 in various advanced stats that determine mvp. It was LeBron and Chris Paul up for that award.
That's two.
Spurtacular
12-22-2015, 07:14 PM
As good as Curry was (and I have no problem with him getting the award), the single biggest difference maker in the NBA was Lebron James. Without Lebron the Cavs don't even make the playoffs, much less the Finals. If Klay and Green or AI go down in the 1st round, do you think the Warriors make the Finals?
Difference maker? What do I care if it's Milwaukee or Cleveland making it to the finals for the East? That's kind of a phony talking point. Curry was the best player on the best team last year. He earned the MVP.
Spurtacular
12-22-2015, 07:19 PM
SMH. I won't even get started so here you go. http://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2015/04/Kia-2014-15-MVP-Voting-Ballot-Results.pdf
Lebron didn't finish even top 5 in PER last season(number 6), didn't finish top 10 in winshares per 48 (Curry, Davis, Harden, Westbrook, Paul in top five), Not top ten in total winshares per game. Value over replacement: Stepehen Curry, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, Chris Paul, LeBron James...in that order.
It was Curry, Westbrook, and Harden, Davis, should have won mvp in that order. Even Chris Paul could have been considered before him easily.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2015_leaders.html?lid=header_leaders
Once again, memory is volatile for you all.
------------
Kevin Durant deserved the MVP...but by the smallest Margin ever.
LeBron's numbers are down which isn't' surprising. His prime season was against okc in the finals. He doesn't block shots or work as hard because he can't. His usage has taken a dive itself.
Derrick ROSE Did not deserve his mvp at all; fucking media driven bullshit. That was LeBron's mvp which would have given him 5 straight.
I checked as far back as 07-08 which is another MVP he deserved but SOMEHOW....somehow...Kobe Bryant of all people ended up with the MVP. How the fuck did that happen? He wasn't top 5 in various advanced stats that determine mvp. It was LeBron and Chris Paul up for that award.
That's two.
I agree with most of what you say; except, I'd say that the MVP is not and should not be an outright formula. Granted, significant statistical deviations should be justified.
As for the 07/08 MVP, it was KG that deserved it for what he did on both ends of the court in taking his team to dominant levels. Just because LBJ was stat stuffing doesn't mean he should get the MVP. And the reason that Kobe won is because the media wanted to give him a lifetime achievement award.
I agree with most of what you say; except, I'd say that the MVP is not and should not be an outright formula. Granted, significant statistical deviations should be justified.
As for the 07/08 MVP, it was KG that deserved it for what he did on both ends of the court in taking his team to dominant levels. Just because LBJ was stat stuffing doesn't mean he should get the MVP. And the reason that Kobe won is because the media wanted to give him a lifetime achievement award.
That was the year Boston won the Finals..hmm. Maybe it was KG's year. I like to take the literal approach to the award. That being, the Most Valuable Player to the NBA as of the year. Its heavily dependent on stats for me and whether that player is easily replaceable.
If the Boston Celtics had LeBron James that season instead of KG, shieet. That's with Paul Pierce and Ray Allen on the edge of their primes. THey could have won two years.
Spurtacular
12-22-2015, 08:58 PM
That was the year Boston won the Finals..hmm. Maybe it was KG's year. I like to take the literal approach to the award. That being, the Most Valuable Player to the NBA as of the year. Its heavily dependent on stats for me and whether that player is easily replaceable.
If the Boston Celtics had LeBron James that season instead of KG, shieet. That's with Paul Pierce and Ray Allen on the edge of their primes. THey could have won two years.
Celts probably would've threepeated if KG had not blown out his knee the next year. KG made the C's a dominant defense though; and his offensive contributions were supplemental to his resume. He was the biggest difference maker in the regular season; upon which, the award is predicated. In the postseason, it was LBJ and Pierce that had the epic battle though.
Joseph Kony
12-23-2015, 01:54 AM
Curry deserved it.
Also, the Cavs weren't really trash. They were the best team in their conference. They had three number one overall picks and three all-stars and some pretty good role players. Lebron didn't perform any miracles.
nah. they were trash, evidenced by the preceding seasons (hence them even having #1 picks) and your point is moot really because LeBron was one of those picks, Irving didn't do jack shit before LeBron came back, and Anthony Bennett is fucking trash so where he got picked is irrelevant. Saying stuff like "3 all stars and role players" sounds nice in a vacuum except that means nothing (see: 2013 Lakers).
Try again, tbh
Difference maker? What do I care if it's Milwaukee or Cleveland making it to the finals for the East? That's kind of a phony talking point. Curry was the best player on the best team last year. He earned the MVP.
Yes difference maker, ergo Most Valuable Player. If it was just a team accolade Shaq should have three or four. I'm thinking you don't understand the concept.
I agree with most of what you say; except, I'd say that the MVP is not and should not be an outright formula. Granted, significant statistical deviations should be justified.
As for the 07/08 MVP, it was KG that deserved it for what he did on both ends of the court in taking his team to dominant levels. Just because LBJ was stat stuffing doesn't mean he should get the MVP. And the reason that Kobe won is because the media wanted to give him a lifetime achievement award.
That was the year Boston won the Finals..hmm. Maybe it was KG's year. I like to take the literal approach to the award. That being, the Most Valuable Player to the NBA as of the year. Its heavily dependent on stats for me and whether that player is easily replaceable.
If the Boston Celtics had LeBron James that season instead of KG, shieet. That's with Paul Pierce and Ray Allen on the edge of their primes. THey could have won two years.
KG teamed up with Ray and Paul. He diluted his contribution to the cause by doing so. Lebron did the same thing in Miami, or so we thought, but he still pulled a couple MVPs from those seasons when everyone here was saying he would be the Robin to Wade's Batman, and that Lebron's MVP run was over.
If it who's most responsible for the biggest change in fortune (positive) for a franchise then it would be Lebron every year. KD got his because RW went down and he was able to absorb Russell's spotlight. Nash did the same thing in Phoenix a couple years when he'd go out for an injury and the team would start losing. He'd return and they'd pick right back up where they left off. He appeared to be the difference maker.
If Curry goes down and the team doesn't falter, which is what Curry would want, then that would be detrimental to Curry's MVP run. Would the Warriors be more fucked without Curry than the Cavs would be without Lebron?
Spurtacular
12-23-2015, 04:32 AM
nah. they were trash, evidenced by the preceding seasons (hence them even having #1 picks) and your point is moot really because LeBron was one of those picks, Irving didn't do jack shit before LeBron came back, and Anthony Bennett is fucking trash so where he got picked is irrelevant. Saying stuff like "3 all stars and role players" sounds nice in a vacuum except that means nothing (see: 2013 Lakers).
Try again, tbh
They were just on the edge of making the playoffs before. What do you think is going to happen when you add the two biggest free agents of the summer to that? You try again. The Cavs going to the finals surprised absolutely nobody that was paying attention. Lebron made it to five straight finals cos the east was just that damn weak in the first place.
Spurtacular
12-23-2015, 04:35 AM
Yes difference maker, ergo Most Valuable Player. If it was just a team accolade Shaq should have three or four. I'm thinking you don't understand the concept.
Curry was the best player on the best team. The false notion and narrative that Lebron took Cleveland so extra far and should be rewarded with an MVP for it is nonsense. If that BS was true, I as a Larry Bird fan would be arguing that rookie Bird deserved the MVP for improving his team 31 games. No though. Kareem was the best player on the best team. You don't fuck with that, pure and simple.
Spurtacular
12-23-2015, 05:06 AM
KG teamed up with Ray and Paul. He diluted his contribution to the cause by doing so. Lebron did the same thing in Miami, or so we thought, but he still pulled a couple MVPs from those seasons when everyone here was saying he would be the Robin to Wade's Batman, and that Lebron's MVP run was over.
If it who's most responsible for the biggest change in fortune (positive) for a franchise then it would be Lebron every year. KD got his because RW went down and he was able to absorb Russell's spotlight. Nash did the same thing in Phoenix a couple years when he'd go out for an injury and the team would start losing. He'd return and they'd pick right back up where they left off. He appeared to be the difference maker.
If Curry goes down and the team doesn't falter, which is what Curry would want, then that would be detrimental to Curry's MVP run. Would the Warriors be more fucked without Curry than the Cavs would be without Lebron?
It really shouldn't be about who makes "the biggest change". I know sometimes, the media sells that; but it's border-line lame when you think about it. But KG played like a boss at both ends on a team that dominated. You saw how weak the C's were the following season after he got hurt. It was the difference between a championship and barely making it out of the first round.
spursistan
12-23-2015, 12:06 PM
Probably ...i thought this year would have been Lebron's last, but Curry ran away with it so early and so far.. James has no chance now that Irving is back because his usage will likely be reduced and Cavs won't come close to Dubs record..
Curry was the best player on the best team. The false notion and narrative that Lebron took Cleveland so extra far and should be rewarded with an MVP for it is nonsense. If that BS was true, I as a Larry Bird fan would be arguing that rookie Bird deserved the MVP for improving his team 31 games. No though. Kareem was the best player on the best team. You don't fuck with that, pure and simple.
You just proved my point (and disproved yours). The Celtics had a better RS record than LA that year yet Kareem won the MVP. How do you judge "best team" other than their RS record?
It really shouldn't be about who makes "the biggest change". I know sometimes, the media sells that; but it's border-line lame when you think about it. But KG played like a boss at both ends on a team that dominated. You saw how weak the C's were the following season after he got hurt. It was the difference between a championship and barely making it out of the first round.
And Lebron's absence was like missing the playoffs 4 consecutive years in Cleveland and making the Finals the same year he returns. Meanwhile in Miami, it was like making the Finals 4 years in a row and missing the playoffs the year he left.
Spurtacular
12-23-2015, 04:47 PM
You just proved my point (and disproved yours). The Celtics had a better RS record than LA that year yet Kareem won the MVP. How do you judge "best team" other than their RS record?
Well, maybe LA wasn't exactly the best team. And maybe Magic was setting stuff up on a platter for Kareem. But Kareem had some statistical edges on Bird. There's a case for Bird. But my point is that I can't complain that Bird was robbed. If I can, let me know.
Spurtacular
12-23-2015, 04:52 PM
And Lebron's absence was like missing the playoffs 4 consecutive years in Cleveland and making the Finals the same year he returns. Meanwhile in Miami, it was like making the Finals 4 years in a row and missing the playoffs the year he left.
When Lebron was in Cleveland, management had incentive to pay quality role players. When he left, why would they do that instead of rebuilding? Lebron coming back made them a contender quicker than had they stuck with Wiggins; but I don't know why I need to care about that much when looking for an MVP? I could care less whether Cleveland is a contender or not. I'm looking at who's doing what on the floor.
Well, maybe LA wasn't exactly the best team. And maybe Magic was setting stuff up on a platter for Kareem. But Kareem had some statistical edges on Bird. There's a case for Bird. But my point is that I can't complain that Bird was robbed. If I can, let me know.
You can't have your cake and eat it too. Best team or best individual stats on a lesser team?
When Lebron was in Cleveland, management had incentive to pay quality role players. When he left, why would they do that instead of rebuilding? Lebron coming back made them a contender quicker than had they stuck with Wiggins; but I don't know why I need to care about that much when looking for an MVP? I could care less whether Cleveland is a contender or not. I'm looking at who's doing what on the floor.
What quality role players are you referring to exactly? Mo Williams? Anderson V? Big Z? Booby? Antawn Jamison? Who? If they were willing to bring in quality role guys Lebron would have stayed.
So now you don't care about the team even contending yet earlier in this thread it was about the best player on the best team. Now you're looking at who's doing what on the floor. What do you think Lebron was doing on the floor that made the difference for them?
I think "robbed" is an inappropriate description of what happened. Curry deserved the MVP so Lebron was not robbed. The Warriors had a historically great regular season and Curry was the best player on that team. They then proved the regular season was not a fluke by winning the championship and going on a 24-0 start with Curry leading the team. Curry and the Warriors are legit no matter how much Spurs fans want to stick their heads in the sand.
I think voters are still tired of voting for Lebron so it might be a while until his next MVP. He'll have to do something new to impress the voters. If Lebron wins a championship for Cleveland, he'll definitely win the MVP the next year.
Spurtacular
12-23-2015, 04:58 PM
You can't have your cake and eat it too. Best team or best individual stats on a lesser team?
I just gave you a default reality; best player on the best team is typically deserving. That doesn't mean I subscribe to one set formula on something that is a subjective award. I don't much believe in that well look at where the guy's team would be without him crap though. The media's been pulling that nonsense going back to Jordan getting 8 seeds.
I just gave you a default reality; best player on the best team is typically deserving. That doesn't mean I subscribe to one set formula on something that is a subjective award. I don't much believe in that well look at where the guy's team would be without him crap though. The media's been pulling that nonsense going back to Jordan getting 8 seeds.
Ok so you don't have a set formula. Maybe you should avoid making statements like " Kareem was the best player on the best team. You don't fuck with that, pure and simple." and "Curry was the best player on the best team last year. He earned the MVP." and "Curry was the best player on the best team. "
You:
Bird lost to Kareem because Kareem was the best player on the best team: You don't fuck with that
Me:
Celtics had a better record that year
You:
Well I don't subscribe to one formula
You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
How do you define value of something if not a differential in benefit between having and not having it? Or are you just going to excuse yourself from everything you've said so far?
The media pulls that because that's how value is defined by rational people. If you just think the team with the best record must have an MVP associated with it, then you're the one who needs to re-examine how you define terms. It's not how the voters do. There are plenty examples of league MVPs of teams with lower than the best winning record.
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