Bulls looking to trade Gasol, Noah, and/or Gibson

[SpursBig3s]

http://www.si.com/nba/2015/12/24/chicago-bulls-trade-rumors-pau-gasol-jokim-noah-taj-gibson

wow

[elemento]

Honestly they're in a tough situation

Gasol about to opt out and likely gone. Noah is 30 y/o, has showed signs to be declining and wants his last fat big contract. Gibson never really had the chance to be a starting PF in CHI but he is already 30 y/o.

Not really sure if there's something they could do to compete with the Cavs as long as they have that albatross contract of D-Rose.

[steeledl]

No one we would want to trade for these guys would match cap numbers.

[Seventyniner]

No one we would want to trade for these guys would match cap numbers.

Gasol at $7.5M is pretty good value for a win-now team.

Edit: you said "we"'as in the Spurs. I mistook your post as saying that nobody would be willing to trade for one of those three at their cap numbers. Noah would be a salary dump if nothing else.

[SpursIndonesia]

Dallas should really make a move for Gasol to at least give Nowitzki the best shot for post season. Pachulia + Powell should be enough for that trade.

[benefactor]

Dallas should really make a move for Gasol to at least give Nowitzki the best shot for post season. Pachulia + Powell should be enough for that trade.
Did you read the article? They are looking for wings tbh.

[Robz4000]

Dallas should really make a move for Gasol to at least give Nowitzki the best shot for post season. Pachulia + Powell should be enough for that trade.

Their interior defense would be nonexistent in that scenario tbh. Gasolin Dallas would be a nightmare though provided they got someone to defend the paint at some point; would propel them to a dark horse contender.

[benefactor]

Their interior defense would be nonexistent in that scenario tbh. Gasolin Dallas would be a nightmare though provided they got someone to defend the paint at some point; would propel them to a dark horse contender.
Dallas ready to give up on Parsons? They can shed his deal and Noah coming off the bench and finishing games with Dirk would be pretty fucking scary.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ndunyep

[Robz4000]

Dallas ready to give up on Parsons? They can shed his deal and Noah coming off the bench and finishing games with Dirk would be pretty fucking scary.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ndunyep

:lol they were ready to give up on him when he signed that contract. Cuban only offered it to try to fuck over Morey. If they flipped Parsons and spare parts for Noah and Gasol (and found an above average defensive wing) I'd shit my pants.

[Uriel]

Somebody bump that 100+ page Gasol thread. :lol

[gospursgojas]

Dallas ready to give up on Parsons? They can shed his deal and Noah coming off the bench and finishing games with Dirk would be pretty fucking scary.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ndunyep


:lol they were ready to give up on him when he signed that contract. Cuban only offered it to try to fuck over Morey. If they flipped Parsons and spare parts for Noah and Gasol (and found an above average defensive wing) I'd shit my pants.

Would be awesome for Mavs if they pulled that off.

As for the Bulls, Parsons is a white Dunleavy that can sometimes put it on the floor.

[100%duncan]

Bonmer for Gasol.

[Kawhitstorm]

Would be awesome for Mavs if they pulled that off.

As for the Bulls, Parsons is a white Dunleavy that can sometimes put it on the floor.

McBuckets is better than Dunleavy & Parson isn't going to move the needle. They should have jumped on Batum or Lamb over the summer considering they were given away for peanuts. They should inquiring about Markieff Morris who is basically being dangled for any takers (Taj work), they would have to start McBuckets at the wing & become an all-out offensive juggernut.

An interesting trade would be shipping out Rose (Eric Gordon was his AAU teammate & Davis is from Chicago) for Tyreke/Jrue Holiday (Jrue starts at PG/Tyreke plays 6th man while McBuckets starts) since both teams have nothing to lose if it doesn't workout (all of them have 2 yrs remaining on their deals): http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=jgfb7yw

[Kawhitstorm]

Dallas ready to give up on Parsons? They can shed his deal and Noah coming off the bench and finishing games with Dirk would be pretty fucking scary.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ndunyep

Who the hell is going to start at the wing for the Mavs? JJ Barea:lol

[SpursIndonesia]

Did you read the article? They are looking for wings tbh.

Not straight up 2 teams deal i mean, i think Utah & Minnesota have some up & coming perimeter players and they might be open for a trade, especially if given incentive like a pick or two.

[baseline bum]

The Spurs are too stacked at the 4/5 to make much use of a Gasol rental and Noah's career is in free fall. Gibson is a nice player but Diaw just makes so many great plays I can't envision giving Gibson his minutes.

[james evans]

We could offer Bonner, Mccallum, and West for him.

[SpurPadre]

Just for shits and giggles, I pulled off a successful 3 team trade via espn's trade machine with the Bulls, Hawks and Spurs where we get Sefolosha and Tavares, Hawks get Gasol, Kyle Anderson, and Rasual Butler (this would only work after the 27th), and the Bulls get Bazemore, then Boban and McCallum. We'd get a decent and young big with upside along with another wing with length who can defend and we can throw at the Dubs. The Hawks get a reliable big who isn't fragile like Tiago, a young wing who Bud can groom into their Diaw and a vet wing who knows the system. The Bulls get a solid wing they've been looking for, a giant freak of nature, and another pg they can use when Rose breaks down again. Humor me with this for a bit...

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Joakim Noah is a large expiring contract ($11.3 mil) ... Spurs could trade Green and Anderson for him and have that money next summer to sign a quality player. Do it Mitch

[lil'mo]

Don't see how anyone has the time to do pointless shit like that :lol

[benefactor]

Who the hell is going to start at the wing for the Mavs? JJ Barea:lol
Parsons has been coming off the bench. Mavs have been running three guards with Williams/Felton/Matthews pretty much all season.

[SpurPadre]

Don't see how anyone has the time to do pointless shit like that :lol

Lol, it only took 5 minutes.

[gambit1990]

who are the bulls targeting?

[SpursFan86]

Spurs are already stacked in the bigs department with 4 quality guys in Duncan/LMA/Diaw/West. Really no point in going after any other bigs, especially if it involves giving up a valuable asset (which would likely be the case).

[MI21]

Joakim Noah is a large expiring contract ($11.3 mil) ... Spurs could trade Green and Anderson for him and have that money next summer to sign a quality player. Do it Mitch

Trying to win a championship with Kyle Anderson or Jonathon fucking Simmons as your starting SG or playing Manu 35MPG and ending up with no SG :lol

[Mr. Body]

Joakim Noah is a large expiring contract ($11.3 mil) ... Spurs could trade Green and Anderson for him and have that money next summer to sign a quality player. Do it Mitch

Holy shit that's fucking stupid.

[Sean Cagney]

Honestly they're in a tough situation

Gasol about to opt out and likely gone. Noah is 30 y/o, has showed signs to be declining and wants his last fat big contract. Gibson never really had the chance to be a starting PF in CHI but he is already 30 y/o.

Not really sure if there's something they could do to compete with the Cavs as long as they have that albatross contract of D-Rose.

Correct, they could not even beat the Cavs with a few stars out last year so that team as is is NEVER going to beat an LBJ lead team, period. They are in a tough situation as you said.

[SpursBig3s]

Joakim Noah is a large expiring contract ($11.3 mil) ... Spurs could trade Green and Anderson for him and have that money next summer to sign a quality player. Do it Mitch

Are you retarded? :lmao

[Chris]

I think Gibson would fit in nicely, but as mentioned earlier we simply don't have room for Noah or Gasol imo

[Chris]

Joakim Noah is a large expiring contract ($11.3 mil) ... Spurs could trade Green and Anderson for him and have that money next summer to sign a quality player. Do it Mitch

Please no, Anderson stays here come hell or highwater

[rastaspur]

Holy shit that's fucking stupid.
:lol

[Mister Sinister]

Joakim Noah is a large expiring contract ($11.3 mil) ... Spurs could trade Green and Anderson for him and have that money next summer to sign a quality player. Do it Mitch

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/55702880.jpg

[BatManu20]

Joakim Noah is a large expiring contract ($11.3 mil) ... Spurs could trade Green and Anderson for him and have that money next summer to sign a quality player. Do it Mitch

http://media1.giphy.com/media/6OWIl75ibpuFO/giphy.gif

[BatManu20]

The Spurs are not trading for any of these guys. They're rolling with what they've got, and that's a good thing, as there is no realistic scenario in which we improve our team in a trade with Chicago. We have the 2nd best team in the league right now and we still haven't even fully gelled on offense. The Mavs and a Wiz are probably the most likely "contending" trading partners if it's going to happen.

[Mr Bones]

The only position I could see the Spurs filling now is an upgrade at back up PG or a ball handling combo guard.

[timtonymanu]

The Spurs are not trading for any of these guys. They're rolling with what they've got, and that's a good thing, as there is no realistic scenario in which we improve our team in a trade with Chicago. We have the 2nd best team in the league right now and we still haven't even fully gelled on offense. The Mavs and a Wiz are probably the most likely "contending" trading partners if it's going to happen.

This. The Spurs are rolling with what they got and the current team can be pretty historic. A trade would only make sense if we started out like the 2013 Lakers.

[Kawhitstorm]

Parsons has been coming off the bench. Mavs have been running three guards with Williams/Felton/Matthews pretty much all season.

I'm pretty sure that is going to cut it in the playoffs.:lol Parsons has been coming off the bench b/c of rehab/minute restriction. Basically, Carlisle wants him to finish the game rather than FelOn:lol. Their record doesn't standout in a mediocre bottom 4 western conference for a reason (Hint: it's not b/c of their center play).

[Fireball]

Just for shits and giggles, I pulled off a successful 3 team trade via espn's trade machine with the Bulls, Hawks and Spurs where we get Sefolosha and Tavares, Hawks get Gasol, Kyle Anderson, and Rasual Butler (this would only work after the 27th), and the Bulls get Bazemore, then Boban and McCallum. We'd get a decent and young big with upside along with another wing with length who can defend and we can throw at the Dubs. The Hawks get a reliable big who isn't fragile like Tiago, a young wing who Bud can groom into their Diaw and a vet wing who knows the system. The Bulls get a solid wing they've been looking for, a giant freak of nature, and another pg they can use when Rose breaks down again. Humor me with this for a bit...

the penalty for this suggestion is that Matty B. plays 15min on average the next ten games ...

[ceperez]

Okay.... Gasol and Noah for Aldridge.

Apparently it does:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hsurn44

+3 wins for Spurs.

Looks like it'll burn Spurs future after 2016-17. However, do Spurs really have a future with Aldridge?

Spurs dump Noah and pick up Serge Ibaka.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Okay.... Gasol and Noah for Aldridge.

Apparently it does:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hsurn44

+3 wins for Spurs.

Looks like it'll burn Spurs future after 2016-17. However, do Spurs really have a future with Aldridge?
If they're both expiring, could that make us a player in the Durant sweepstakes?

[ceperez]

If they're both expiring, could that make us a player in the Durant sweepstakes?

Not a guru, but if Gasol can get dumped then YES.

I say, go for it! Aldridge is looking pretty one dimensional these days and Gasol isn't that bad a replacement short term.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

http://media1.giphy.com/media/6OWIl75ibpuFO/giphy.gif

Wonder if that would give us enough room (after the cap increase) to be serious players for Durant in the offseason?


- Duncan (if he stays one more year) / Boban / vet
- Aldridge/Diaw/West (?)
- Durant/Butler (?) or another vet / Simmons
- Leonard/Simmons/vet/ Manu if he stays another year?
- Parker/Mills/Mccallum/vet

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Not a guru, but if Gasol can get dumped then YES.

I say, go for it! Aldridge is looking pretty one dimensional these days and Gasol isn't that bad a replacement short term.

I'd rather get rid of Green than LMA though. :( I like LMA.

[benfti]

The only position I could see the Spurs filling now is an upgrade at back up PG or a ball handling combo guard.

WTF?

[ceperez]

I'd rather get rid of Green than LMA though. :( I like LMA.

LMA has been a disappointment for a max player. If he weren't a max player, I would say that he's doing very well. But he's a max player and I expect a lot better play from him. Right now, the way he's playing, Gasol would be just as good a player. Not great, but good enough.

Gasol is a player option.... so Spurs can be on Durant sweepstakes only if Gasol opts out.

[SpursIndonesia]

LMA has been a disappointment for a max player. If he weren't a max player, I would say that he's doing very well. But he's a max player and I expect a lot better play from him. Right now, the way he's playing, Gasol would be just as good a player. Not great, but good enough.

One way players with pedestrian stats like Anus Cancer or Tristan Thompson are getting (almost) max money, what do you expect Aldridge contract should have been in the first place ? Great teams with loaded roster like the Spurs will render individual player stats quite underwhelming, it's just a common sense. Aldridge has been better than advertised defensively, and offensively he is getting more & more integrated & acclimated, what do you want more from him ?

[ceperez]

One way players with pedestrian stats like Anus Cancer or Tristan Thompson are getting (almost) max money, what do you expect Aldridge contract should have been in the first place ? Great teams with loaded roster like the Spurs will render individual player stats quite underwhelming, it's just a common sense. Aldridge has been better than advertised defensively, and offensively he is getting more & more integrated & acclimated, what do you want more from him ?

I expect him to be exceeding expectations. This is the Spurs, not Thunder and not the Cavaliers.

Honestly, I want to see him working his butt out when he's on the court. Just watch him, he's coasting and taking it easy.

If that rumor about Pop being exasperated with him is true, then he should be traded pronto.

Let's see how Aldridge plays against the Rockets... if he doesn't deliver then this trade should be a good option.

[Mel_13]

I expect him to be exceeding expectations. This is the Spurs, not Thunder and not the Cavaliers.

Honestly, I want to see him working his butt out when he's on the court. Just watch him, he's coasting and taking it easy.

If that rumor about Pop being exasperated with him is true, then he should be traded pronto.

Let's see how Aldridge plays against the Rockets... if he doesn't deliver then this trade should be a good option.

#ceperez

[Raven]

sounds dumb from the bulls

[ceperez]

sounds dumb from the bulls

I'm not sure exactly who they are targeting since these contracts seem to be expiring between 1 to 2 years.

Noah appears to be injured and Gasol appears to be opting out. So they are trying to get something before they have nothing left to trade. Still.... it is like 20million in salaries.

Very intriguing though.... Noah is 2014 DPOY. Both Noah and Gasol are known to be very good passing bigs.

Just read this: http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20151223/sports/151229468/ So Bulls want to get rid of both Gasol and Noah, leaders in the locker room? They want Butler to take the reigns of the franchise? Is this what is going on?

[benefactor]

#ceperez
:lol...probably my favorite shtick right now.

[Dverde]

Spurs are not going to trade West after he took a huge discount to sign with them that is something weasels like Cuban or Tom Rivers does. Not "the Spurs way". They are not trading for any of these guys.

[ceperez]

:lol...probably my favorite shtick right now.

I forget exactly who you are.... oh... now I recall... the guy who said Jonathon Simmons would amount to nothing.

[ceperez]

Spurs are not going to trade West after he took a huge discount to sign with them that is something weasels like Cuban or Tom Rivers does. Not "the Spurs way". They are not trading for any of these guys.

I think West is getting the hang of thing. Plus, his salary is next to nothing. So I don't expect him being traded.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

So many shitty takes in the last page :lol

[cutewizard]

How about Noah???

anyone wants him in us???

[cutewizard]

Noah in the second unit of the Spurs would be awesome

[cutewizard]

uhmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[benefactor]

I forget exactly who you are.... oh... now I recall... the guy who said Jonathon Simmons would amount to nothing.
Putting aside the fact that I never said that, it's pretty hilarious you would call out someone on a take when you fingered your own asshole repeatedly after we signed Jimmer.

[ceperez]

Putting aside the fact that I never said that, it's pretty hilarious you would call out someone on a take when you fingered your own asshole repeatedly after we signed Jimmer.

Your lack of faith, in Jonathon Simmons, I've always found disturbing. Hope to see you making your confessions the next time you visit the vicarage.

[timtonymanu]

Putting aside the fact that I never said that, it's pretty hilarious you would call out someone on a take when you fingered your own asshole repeatedly after we signed Jimmer.

:lol he was also all over Austin Daye's nuts too iirc. He must have a fetish for 15th men/D League scrubs.

[Mel_13]

I forget exactly who you are.... oh... now I recall... the guy who said Jonathon Simmons would amount to nothing.

You're really the last guy who wants to have past bad takes serve as some sort of disqualifier.

[kaji157]

I think for the long run, and considering he will finish his contract with us for sure. Pau Gasol for Boris Diaw will make a lot of sense, mainly because he gives us a real C to play in all situations.

For me if it´s doable it´s a no brainer, while he is no Diaw, Pau is a good passer, good post player, able defender and has proved to be worth even at his age.

While Diaw at 7.5 million 3 years is a good contract that may turn out not so great, Pau at 7.5 for 2 years is a great one.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

I think for the long run, and considering he will finish his contract with us for sure. Pau Gasol for Boris Diaw will make a lot of sense, mainly because he gives us a real C to play in all situations.

For me if it´s doable it´s a no brainer, while he is no Diaw, Pau is a good passer, good post player, able defender and has proved to be worth even at his age.

While Diaw at 7.5 million 3 years is a good contract that may turn out not so great, Pau at 7.5 for 2 years is a great one.

You don't trade the most clutch playoff shooter on the team who also happens to be the best passing bigman on the team and a heck of an offensive post presence, for Soft Gasol who would rather take a contested fadeaway than back his man in.

[Mel_13]

I think for the long run, and considering he will finish his contract with us for sure. Pau Gasol for Boris Diaw will make a lot of sense, mainly because he gives us a real C to play in all situations.

For me if it´s doable it´s a no brainer, while he is no Diaw, Pau is a good passer, good post player, able defender and has proved to be worth even at his age.

While Diaw at 7.5 million 3 years is a good contract that may turn out not so great, Pau at 7.5 for 2 years is a great one.

Pau will opt out this summer and could very well get a multi-year deal starting at 12M+. Diaw's contract is less than 50% guaranteed next year and completely unguaranteed in the last year. Whatever arguments you may make for a Diaw/Pau swap, their respective contracts do not support those arguments.

[Agloco]

We could offer Bonner, Mccallum, and West for him.

I don't honestly believe that the Spurs would do West like that.

[Agloco]

Putting aside the fact that I never said that, it's pretty hilarious you would call out someone on a take when you fingered your own asshole repeatedly after we signed Jimmer.


You're really the last guy who wants to have past bad takes serve as some sort of disqualifier.

Pretty much this. Junk in, junk out.

[SpursBig3s]

LMA has been a disappointment for a max player. If he weren't a max player, I would say that he's doing very well. But he's a max player and I expect a lot better play from him. Right now, the way he's playing, Gasol would be just as good a player. Not great, but good enough.

Gasol is a player option.... so Spurs can be on Durant sweepstakes only if Gasol opts out.


You really want to hinge your entire offseason on IF Durant comes to SA. :lol We already have a top 3 SF in the game already, and after a year in the system, LMA will most likely look like his normal self (or very close to it). Thank God you're not making decisions for the Spurs.

[SpursBig3s]

:lol he was also all over Austin Daye's nuts too iirc. He must have a fetish for 15th men/D League scrubs.


All of his takes are just god awful. We have by far and away the 2nd best team in the league, Aldridge has been way better than advertised as a defender, he's getting more comfortable on the offensive end (just dropped 26 & 13 on Griffin), and this retard wants to get rid of him in year 1, pick up the corpses of Gasol and Noah (Duncan would have too much responsibility on D, which would make him less effective), and hinge these moves entirely on the HOPE that Durant signs with us, which will never happen since we already have Kawhi who will only get better.

[ceperez]

I think for the long run, and considering he will finish his contract with us for sure. Pau Gasol for Boris Diaw will make a lot of sense, mainly because he gives us a real C to play in all situations.

For me if it´s doable it´s a no brainer, while he is no Diaw, Pau is a good passer, good post player, able defender and has proved to be worth even at his age.

While Diaw at 7.5 million 3 years is a good contract that may turn out not so great, Pau at 7.5 for 2 years is a great one.

Diaw is arguable the best playmaker in the entire team. Sure, he takes a break too often in the regular season, but his contributions are vital.

I wouldn't want to pull that kind of a trade.

[exstatic]

I think for the long run, and considering he will finish his contract with us for sure. Pau Gasol for Boris Diaw will make a lot of sense, mainly because he gives us a real C to play in all situations.

For me if it´s doable it´s a no brainer, while he is no Diaw, Pau is a good passer, good post player, able defender and has proved to be worth even at his age.

While Diaw at 7.5 million 3 years is a good contract that may turn out not so great, Pau at 7.5 for 2 years is a great one.
1. You're not guaranteed Pau for 2 years. He has an opt out, so you should really pick your player return as if he were a partial season rental.

2. He's no more fond of playing center that Aldridge is.

[ceperez]

All of his takes are just god awful. We have by far and away the 2nd best team in the league, Aldridge has been way better than advertised as a defender, he's getting more comfortable on the offensive end (just dropped 26 & 13 on Griffin), and this retard wants to get rid of him in year 1, pick up the corpses of Gasol and Noah (Duncan would have too much responsibility on D, which would make him less effective), and hinge these moves entirely on the HOPE that Durant signs with us, which will never happen since we already have Kawhi who will only get better.

LMA has a lot of promise when he was signed. Yet, we don't know if he can take it to the next level. The verdict is still out.

Just saying this is an intriguing option Gasol and Noah (2014 DPOY) for a max player that may not (*speculation*) play to expectations. LMA is playing so poorly that he's doing worse than Gasol. LMA numbers just show that he's not delivering as advertised.

Pau Per is 20.56
Noah Per is 15.03
Aldridge Per is 19.77
West Per is 15.86

Number say that Pau and Aldridge are about the same this season. So just saying that a Pau/Noah vs Aldridge trade may not be so ludicrous after all.

[exstatic]

LMA has a lot of promise when he was signed. Yet, we don't know if he can take it to the next level. The verdict is still out.

Just saying this is an intriguing option Gasol and Noah (2014 DPOY) for a max player that may not (*speculation*) play to expectations. LMA is playing so poorly that he's doing worse than Gasol. LMA numbers just show that he's not delivering as advertised.

Pau Per is 20.56
Noah Per is 15.03
Aldridge Per is 19.77
West Per is 15.86

Number say that Pau and Aldridge are about the same this season. So just saying that a Pau/Noah vs Aldridge trade may not be so ludicrous after all.

Aldridge is 30. Gasoft is 35. Only one of them can be a cornerstone going forward, and it ain't Gasoft. Consider Noah a burnt out corpse from too many years of high minutes in the Thibs system. He's done.

[Kawhitstorm]

LMA has a lot of promise when he was signed. Yet, we don't know if he can take it to the next level. The verdict is still out.

Just saying this is an intriguing option Gasol and Noah (2014 DPOY) for a max player that may not (*speculation*) play to expectations. LMA is playing so poorly that he's doing worse than Gasol. LMA numbers just show that he's not delivering as advertised.

Pau Per is 20.56
Noah Per is 15.03
Aldridge Per is 19.77
West Per is 15.86

Number say that Pau and Aldridge are about the same this season. So just saying that a Pau/Noah vs Aldridge trade may not be so ludicrous after all.

Except PERs don't factor in defense, Pau is a liability on PnRs like Tim.

[Kawhitstorm]

I think for the long run, and considering he will finish his contract with us for sure. Pau Gasol for Boris Diaw will make a lot of sense, mainly because he gives us a real C to play in all situations.

For me if it´s doable it´s a no brainer, while he is no Diaw, Pau is a good passer, good post player, able defender and has proved to be worth even at his age.

While Diaw at 7.5 million 3 years is a good contract that may turn out not so great, Pau at 7.5 for 2 years is a great one.

Why in the hell would the Bulls make this deal? They could get Markeiff for peanuts if they were seeking a smallball PF/C. Pau isn't a salay dump player, he has value.

[bic50]

Not sure about Gibson or Noah. But gasol on the spurs would be insane. But it won't happen unfortunately.

[ceperez]

Why in the hell would the Bulls make this deal? They could get Markeiff for peanuts if they were seeking a smallball PF/C. Pau isn't a salay dump player, he has value.

Sports Illustrated Rumors: http://www.si.com/nba/2015/12/24/chicago-bulls-trade-rumors-pau-gasol-jokim-noah-taj-gibson

Likely to be true.

Speculation is they get nothing for Noah at the end of the season. They also might get nothing for Gasol if he opts out.

So they are leaking out to the press that they are looking for a trade. Beggars aren't going to be choosers.

[ceperez]

Not sure about Gibson or Noah. But gasol on the spurs would be insane. But it won't happen unfortunately.

Well if Spurs offer up LMA then it might be enough for Bulls to give away both Noah and Gasol. It could be the Bulls want to move to small ball play and are offering their bigs up for a trade. Gasol is a great play maker and Noah is the 2014 DPOY so there's still value in this deal.

[sasaint]

Aldridge is 30. Gasoft is 35. Only one of them can be a cornerstone going forward, and it ain't Gasoft. Consider Noah a burnt out corpse from too many years of high minutes in the Thibs system. He's done.

The rare voice of reason. I'm not sure why this thread continued after this exclamation mark.

[ceperez]

The rare voice of reason. I'm not sure why this thread continued after this exclamation mark.

2016 Free agency includes Durant. 2017 Free agency is ridiculously rich.

So if Gasol is available for 1-2 years, it gives maximum flexibility for the Spurs without a drop off in performance (with Gasol replacing LMA for 1-2 years).

2017 flexibility is important. Probably more important than the $20m/year LMA contract.

[Kawhitstorm]

Sports Illustrated Rumors: http://www.si.com/nba/2015/12/24/chicago-bulls-trade-rumors-pau-gasol-jokim-noah-taj-gibson

Likely to be true.

Speculation is they get nothing for Noah at the end of the season. They also might get nothing for Gasol if he opts out.

So they are leaking out to the press that they are looking for a trade. Beggars aren't going to be choosers.

Again why would they want Bobo when they have Taj/Niko under contract

[benefactor]

Well if Spurs offer up LMA then it might be enough for Bulls to give away both Noah and Gasol. It could be the Bulls want to move to small ball play and are offering their bigs up for a trade. Gasol is a great play maker and Noah is the 2014 DPOY so there's still value in this deal.
Are legitimately low functioning? Serious question. Just need to know if I should feel bad for making fun of you.

[sasaint]

2016 Free agency includes Durant. 2017 Free agency is ridiculously rich.

So if Gasol is available for 1-2 years, it gives maximum flexibility for the Spurs without a drop off in performance (with Gasol replacing LMA for 1-2 years).

2017 flexibility is important. Probably more important than the $20m/year LMA contract.

Durant is not a "Spur" nor will he ever join the Spurs. This team has a shot at a championship this season while LMA and Tim are both playing very good basketball. I would not be willing to throw that away for some pie in the sky.

[ceperez]

Again why would they want Bobo when they have Taj/Niko under contract

Bobo? Don't think Bulls would be interested in Bobo.

BTW, Taj is also rumored to be on trading block.

[ceperez]

Durant is not a "Spur" nor will he ever join the Spurs. This team has a shot at a championship this season while LMA and Tim are both playing very good basketball. I would not be willing to throw that away for some pie in the sky.

It is hard to tell where Durant will be going. However, if the Spurs destroy the Thunder this year, he could be so fed up with his team and pack his bags to go elsewhere. Where? Who knows!?

[Kawhitstorm]

Bobo? Don't think Bulls would be interested in Bobo.

BTW, Taj is also rumored to be on trading block.

Bobby Portis is going to get Taj's minutes if he's traded. What the hell is Boris going to do in the Bulls.isolation offense? Who's going to protect the rim or grab defensive rebounds?

[Kawhitstorm]

It is hard to tell where Durant will be going. However, if the Spurs destroy the Thunder this year, he could be so fed up with his team and pack his bags to go elsewhere. Where? Who knows!?

He's going to re-sign b/c he's a loyal servant & OKC controls the local media (he's very sensitive)

[weeks]

:lol lma for noah + soft gasol
:lol spurstalk.com

[Horry Hipcheck]

Gasol was a sexy option in his Laker years, and maybe even before he went to Chicago. Noah's a walking tombstone.

Any talk of blowing up the existing system 30 games in just for an outside shot at a one legged horse in Durant and maybe some 2017 versions of the 2015 parts we got this year is ridiculous. I get it - the Spurs spent too many offseasons being the bridesmaid, never the bride. Time to drop that mentality.

[ceperez]

Bobby Portis is going to get Taj's minutes if he's traded. What the hell is Boris going to do in the Bulls.isolation offense? Who's going to protect the rim or grab defensive rebounds?

Bulls want to unload big contracts to go smaller. Portis may have a lot more upside than Gibson. So that's why Taj is on the block.

Lots of team all going small this season.

[exstatic]

2016 Free agency includes Durant. 2017 Free agency is ridiculously rich.

So if Gasol is available for 1-2 years, it gives maximum flexibility for the Spurs without a drop off in performance (with Gasol replacing LMA for 1-2 years).

2017 flexibility is important. Probably more important than the $20m/year LMA contract.

Let me get this straight. You want to entice a former Longhorn MAX FA by trading a former Longhorn MAX FA only months after signing him? I wouldn't be too jazzed to sign with a team that would dump a prized FA with no substance, legal, or overt attitude problems that quickly.

[ceperez]

Let me get this straight. You want to entice a former Longhorn MAX FA by trading a former Longhorn MAX FA only months after signing him? I wouldn't be too jazzed to sign with a team that would dump a prized FA with no substance, legal, or overt attitude problems that quickly.

The Bulls apparently are dumping Gasol. Which makes you wonder since Gasol is playing well.

LMA should be dumped if he's not meeting expectations. I want to see him though play against the strong teams and see how he delivers. If he lays an egg, then this discussion has merit. So far Spurs have played enough strong teams to make any good evaluation as to whether LMA is worth it.

LMA definitely has talent. I'm just concerned about his mindset.

[Kawhitstorm]

Bulls want to unload big contracts to go smaller. Portis may have a lot more upside than Gibson. So that's why Taj is on the block.

Lots of team all going small this season.

Again trading for Boris doesn't make sense since they are loaded with forwards like the Spurs. It doesn't make sense to trade Boris for Taj as far as the Spurs are concerned either. If the Bulls want to play small ball then Markeiff is available for peanuts

[ceperez]

Again trading for Boris doesn't make sense since they are loaded with forwards like the Spurs. It doesn't make sense to trade Boris for Taj as far as the Spurs are concerned either. If the Bulls want to play small ball then Markeiff is available for peanuts

I agree, it doesn't make sense. Some other poster brought that up.

I really don't care for Taj. He can't shoot and will get exposed come playoff time.

[SilverSpur]

I would like Gasol as a one year rental , but we have to start thinking of the fact that Duncan , Diaw, Manu , Butler, Bonner and West might be gone next year if we win it all.
So grabbing Gasol might make sense as to keep him from other teams and our Cupboard won't be so bare.

[SilverSpur]

I don't honestly believe that the Spurs would do West like that.

I agree. The Spurs will not be trading West after what he gave up to join the team.

[exstatic]

I would like Gasol as a one year rental , but we have to start thinking of the fact that Duncan , Diaw, Manu , Butler, Bonner and West might be gone next year if we win it all.
So grabbing Gasol might make sense as to keep him from other teams and our Cupboard won't be so bare.

If you want Gasol going forward, sign him next summer as a FA. No need to give up anything now.

[ceperez]

If you want Gasol going forward, sign him next summer as a FA. No need to give up anything now.

I don't think there will be any cap room. It'll be the same problem as the last time Spurs tried to get Gasol.

[exstatic]

I don't think there will be any cap room. It'll be the same problem as the last time Spurs tried to get Gasol.

He'll be two years older, and we were barely outbid last time. I think the market for 36 YO PFs probably won't exceed the MLE.

[sasaint]

He'll be two years older, and we were barely outbid last time. I think the market for 36 YO PFs probably won't exceed the MLE.

At some point, it would be nice for the Spurs to invest in a young big rather than constantly going for the retreads. Perhaps that is an investment we make in 2017. Or perhaps Cady fills the bill in a year or two...

To address SilverSpur, I expect Boris to return next season. Tbh, I expect Boris to play as long as his compatriot, Tony, plays, and possibly longer. As for Duncan, Manu and DWest, they will all probably retire if we win a championship this season. However, I would not be surprised to see Duncan return, and I would be even less so to see DWest return. If we fail to win the 'ship this season, the odds that Tim and/or DWest returns increase. Butler will be gone, and Bonner will do whatever Pop wants. There is no way we want to make a trade for Gasol this season, disrupting the team even more by getting rid of Diaw. No matter how similar the two skill sets appear, system and teammate familiarity and chemistry are important. This isn't a fantasy league.

Next year we might want to rent Gasol, but our situation is too fluid to predict. Besides, didn't Gasol state something to the effect that he preferred a city that had more in the way of "culture" than San Antonio has to offer?

[SAGirl]

Durant is not a "Spur" nor will he ever join the Spurs. This team has a shot at a championship this season while LMA and Tim are both playing very good basketball. I would not be willing to throw that away for some pie in the sky.


Aldridge is 30. Gasoft is 35. Only one of them can be a cornerstone going forward, and it ain't Gasoft. Consider Noah a burnt out corpse from too many years of high minutes in the Thibs system. He's done.

^^^^ What they said ^^^^^

We are not trading Aldridge. Spurs don't roll like that. The first star free agent in his prime that signs here and we are going to trade him? No! Specially when we are in a historic franchise start, with a historic defense.

We are also not trading West. He's been playing really well for us and has improved with each game. He also signed for peanuts to win now.

We are also not trading 1st round picks. We need them to reload in the future, since its unpredictable what will happen to the team when the legend HOF players retire and you can't take for granted some older guys we have. We will need to replenish with young talent.

Finally, all speculation regarding Anderson is fine and all, but he's also not getting traded. He won't get a big haul with his small salary and Pop is engaged coaching him and giving him opportunities. There is potential there that he can harvest and I suspect Pop will want to see him through.

I just can't envision a scenario where any of our bigs are traded to go after any of Chicago's bigs.

[Chinook]

#ceperez

[ceperez]

I am border line had it with LMA. The guy despite having size and talent, chooses to settle for the most inefficient shot in basketball. The contested mid-range jumper. Even when he's wide open he even manages to miss shots by a wide margin. He barely plays any help defense and its like a wide open lane when players drive into the lane.

Gasol may have a reputation as soft, but I tell you now, LMA is much softer. At least Gasol has enough length to block shots, LMA not only can barely jump, but rarely contests shots.

Noah is 2014 DPOY, yes he's got a ton of injury's, but a defensive presence in the 2nd unit will plug a major hole.

Spurs should trade LMA for Gasol/Noah!!! 1/3rd a season is enough to realize that LMA is a problem when playing elite teams.

[SpursBig3s]

I am border line had it with LMA. The guy despite having size and talent, chooses to settle for the most inefficient shot in basketball. The contested mid-range jumper. Even when he's wide open he even manages to miss shots by a wide margin. He barely plays any help defense and its like a wide open lane when players drive into the lane.

Gasol may have a reputation as soft, but I tell you now, LMA is much softer. At least Gasol has enough length to block shots, LMA not only can barely jump, but rarely contests shots.

Noah is 2014 DPOY, yes he's got a ton of injury's, but a defensive presence in the 2nd unit will plug a major hole.

Spurs should trade LMA for Gasol/Noah!!! 1/3rd a season is enough to realize that LMA is a problem when playing elite teams.



You you need to take a break. Your takes are consistently atrocious and your advocating dumping LMA for Noah and Gasol

as other posters have repeatedly said in many different ways, that would be borderline retarded

[palangi]

What about Danny green, David west, and the rights to deshaun Thomas

for

joakim Noah and Tony snell

green is is the money that evens the trade. We need to do something about the combo of West and Diaw. They are bad together on that second unit. Diaw and Noah Areca much better fit. Coming off the bench with lower minutes and a coach that can manage his minutes better might be good for Noah. Thomas gives them the second wing player in this trade. And his shooting could come in handy for Chicago.

Snell is shooting 39% from 3 this year. He has improved and would improve even more with chip England. He is long and athletic and we wouldn't lose anything defensively. And gain a kid that can handle the ball and drive and finish.


PG- Parker, mills, mccallum
SG- Snell, ginobli, simmons
SF- Leonard, anderson, butler
PF- Aldridge, Diaw, Bonner
C- Duncan, Noah, Boban

[kaji157]

I get what many here says, that the Bulls won´t pull the trigger.

But Gasol is a very good player, producing PER around 20 for many years now.

Boris is a good passer and a good defender on switches, but not a rim protector and clearly not getting any younger.

If Gasol accepts and the Bulls accept this trade for us should be a no brainer. Even if it disrupts our second unit playmaking, which i think i don´t because Gasol is very used to playing with playmakers ala Ginobili and has been assist leader on his national team from time to time.

A good deal is there for us to make an offer, we would be dumb not to.

Then the Bulls can reject, but you have to try it because it makes you better.

[ceperez]

I get what many here says, that the Bulls won´t pull the trigger.

But Gasol is a very good player, producing PER around 20 for many years now.

Boris is a good passer and a good defender on switches, but not a rim protector and clearly not getting any younger.

If Gasol accepts and the Bulls accept this trade for us should be a no brainer. Even if it disrupts our second unit playmaking, which i think i don´t because Gasol is very used to playing with playmakers ala Ginobili and has been assist leader on his national team from time to time.

A good deal is there for us to make an offer, we would be dumb not to.

Then the Bulls can reject, but you have to try it because it makes you better.

Viable trade, but Boris is 'damaged goods' for most other teams. They don' know if he's going to put in the effort.

[ceperez]

Here's my proposal.

Trade LMA for Noah and Gasol.

Leaves cap room in 2016 for some interesting possible acquisitions: http://hoopshype.com/2015/12/10/nba-free-agency-2016-the-top-players/

Potential targets: Durant, Harrison Barnes, Batum, Ezeli, Afflalo, Fournier

I honestly don't believe that LMA is any better in the next two years than Pau Gasol. Noah is just extra reserve that may be good for a one year rental but certainly will help fix defensive hole for 2nd unit.

Pau and Noah are good passing big men and certainly will help the stagnant offense of the Spurs starting lineup.

[Mel_13]

Okay.... Gasol and Noah for Aldridge.

Apparently it does:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hsurn44

+3 wins for Spurs.

Looks like it'll burn Spurs future after 2016-17. However, do Spurs really have a future with Aldridge?

Spurs dump Noah and pick up Serge Ibaka.


Here's my proposal.

Trade LMA for Noah and Gasol.

Leaves cap room in 2016 for some interesting possible acquisitions: http://hoopshype.com/2015/12/10/nba-free-agency-2016-the-top-players/

Potential targets: Durant, Harrison Barnes, Batum, Ezeli, Afflalo, Fournier

I honestly don't believe that LMA is any better in the next two years than Pau Gasol. Noah is just extra reserve that may be good for a one year rental but certainly will help fix defensive hole for 2nd unit.

Posting the same thing two days later doesn't make it any better.

#ceperez

[ceperez]

Posting the same thing two days later doesn't make it any better.

#ceperez

Well I dread the realization that LMA could become "Richard Jefferson 2.0".

[Mel_13]

Well I dread the realization that LMA could become "Richard Jefferson 2.0".

All kidding aside, you show so much faith in PATFO in other threads that you may want to at least give LMA a full season as there's zero chance that the Spurs trade him during this season.

[ceperez]

All kidding aside, you show so much faith in PATFO in other threads that you may want to at least give LMA a full season as there's zero chance that the Spurs trade him during this season.

R.J. 2.0 is rearing its ugly head. LMA indeed has the talent, unfortunately I have yet to see the commitment or even the basketball IQ. The excuses that he needs time to learn the system is beginning to look suspect as evidenced as to how much David West has made progress.

The PATFO owes Duncan and Ginobili much more than whatever commitments they've made to LMA. LMA also owes PATFO at least the consistent effort which he has yet to show. Either he hasn't made the effort or that he's incapable of figuring it out. I think it is partially the first, but more of the second. If that's the case and if the Bulls are willing to ditch their bigs, then the PATFO should make the trade despite how bad the optics may look.

R.J. 1.0 was a horrible affair, let's hope Spurs don't have to go through another debacle like it.

[apalisoc_9]

Gasol for Aldridge or whatever package is dumb. Have any of you seen Gasol in PnR defensive situations? :lmao

Gasol is probably a better offensive fit. But my God is he awful on D

[Mel_13]

R.J. 2.0 is rearing its ugly head. LMA indeed has the talent, unfortunately I have yet to see the commitment or even the basketball IQ. The excuses that he needs time to learn the system is beginning to look suspect as evidenced as to how much David West has made progress.

The PATFO owes Duncan and Ginobili much more than whatever commitments they've made to LMA. LMA also owes PATFO at least the consistent effort which he has yet to show. Either he hasn't made the effort or that he's incapable of figuring it out. I think it is partially the first, but more of the second. If that's the case and if the Bulls are willing to ditch their bigs, then the PATFO should make the trade despite how bad the optics may look.

I am quite certain that PATFO has an entirely different view of Aldridge.

[ceperez]

Gasol for Aldridge or whatever package is dumb. Have any of you seen Gasol in PnR defensive situations? :lmao

Gasol is probably a better offensive fit. But my God is he awful on D

If Spurs have to beg, then beggars aren't going to be choosers.

Noah, 2014 DPOY if healthy, may be a better PNR defender. Of course, with zero offense.

[dbreiden83080]

Honestly they're in a tough situation

Gasol about to opt out and likely gone. Noah is 30 y/o, has showed signs to be declining and wants his last fat big contract. Gibson never really had the chance to be a starting PF in CHI but he is already 30 y/o.

Not really sure if there's something they could do to compete with the Cavs as long as they have that albatross contract of D-Rose.

And Rose is thinking about all that money going around. Preparing for Free agency and all.. :lol:lol

[ceperez]

Honestly they're in a tough situation

Gasol about to opt out and likely gone. Noah is 30 y/o, has showed signs to be declining and wants his last fat big contract. Gibson never really had the chance to be a starting PF in CHI but he is already 30 y/o.

Not really sure if there's something they could do to compete with the Cavs as long as they have that albatross contract of D-Rose.

Spurs have a potential albatross in LMA's contract. So two desperate teams may agree on taking a path that is less painful.

[tmtcsc]

Damn, this escalated quickly. The team is 26-6 with 50 left to play in the regular season. Even with Aldridge not reaching his potential yet, the Spurs are putting up historically great numbers on defense. We knew there was going to be a transition and there is still plenty of time to get better. I imagine the coaching staff will tweak the offense or lineups to make Aldridge more comfortable if that's what it takes. You don't just give up and start trading major investments before mid-season.

Aldridge is veteran and will get better with time. I expect him to raise his play to another level when the playoffs start too.

[BatManu20]

What tmt said^

[BatManu20]

:lol at some of the ridiculous and borderline retarded trade ideas in this thread

[100%duncan]

"Lma might not reach expectation"

Risks the future for a
Gasoft that can opt out and a declining noah :lol

[Ice009]

LMA is much better than Richard Jefferson ever was for the Spurs, and this is a completely different situation. I think he needs more time. He is a better overall player. He just needs to up his aggressiveness and be more aggressive around the rim against all opponents.

The team also signed Aldridge as a FA. They didn't trade for him. That would not be a good thing to try and get rid of him this soon. The backlash from other free agents around the league wouldn't be good.

[ceperez]

So folks.... what do you think of LMA performance agains the t-wolves? If it weren't for some good assists, LMA could have laid an egg.

The writing is on the wall... LMA may not even be worth a trade for Gasol and Noah.

[ceperez]

LMA is much better than Richard Jefferson ever was for the Spurs, and this is a completely different situation. I think he needs more time. He is a better overall player. He just needs to up his aggressiveness and be more aggressive around the rim against all opponents.

The team also signed Aldridge as a FA. They didn't trade for him. That would not be a good thing to try and get rid of him this soon. The backlash from other free agents around the league wouldn't be good.

PATFO owes the Duncan and Manu and every other Spurs player that made a sacrifice a *quality* player. LMA is not delivering on that *quality* so honestly if he gets canned and Spurs still win a championship then it would not matter. It gives notice to everyone else who signs with the Spurs that it isn't a walk in the park to play here. Dump LMA pronto!

No wonder Pop went ballistic last night. LMA made a bad pass to Manu that led to a layup by the wolves. He just lost it and took it out on the refs so he would get thrown out.

Honestly, a trade is likely in the works. Pop has completely had it with the bum.

(c) copyrighted #ceperez

-----
Parker/Mills
Green/Manu/Simmons
Leonard/Anderson/Butler
Gasol/Diaw/West/Bonner
Duncan/Boban/Noah

[cutewizard]

Boban at center

kawhi and simmons as athletics wings

noah and diaw as point forwards

[sasaint]

I am border line had it with LMA. The guy despite having size and talent, chooses to settle for the most inefficient shot in basketball. The contested mid-range jumper. Even when he's wide open he even manages to miss shots by a wide margin. He barely plays any help defense and its like a wide open lane when players drive into the lane.

Gasol may have a reputation as soft, but I tell you now, LMA is much softer. At least Gasol has enough length to block shots, LMA not only can barely jump, but rarely contests shots.

Noah is 2014 DPOY, yes he's got a ton of injury's, but a defensive presence in the 2nd unit will plug a major hole.

Spurs should trade LMA for Gasol/Noah!!! 1/3rd a season is enough to realize that LMA is a problem when playing elite teams.

I am not on board your dump LMA train yet. But as you noted elsewhere, the guy has been coasting - for at least five games. At the start of the season I was pleasantly surprised with his defense and offensive rebounding, and I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on fitting into our offense. But lately, I am beginning to have serious doubts.

So, let me ask you about your longer range "vision" for the Spurs. Assuming that the Bulls would take LMA in exchange for Gasol and Noah, that would give us a logjam this season at the 4/5, with Duncan, Boris, DWest, Boban and Gasol and Noah. But we would have only Boris and (conceivably) Duncan in the fold for next season. How would you see the Spurs' roster of bigs in 2016 and beyond? In other posts you have pointed out the abundance of free agent talent on the market next summer, but you have focused on guys like Durant (which is fruitless), Batum, Ariza, et al. But we will need bigs more than these guys. What is R C ceperez's master plan? I must say, as trade-averse as the Spurs are, I cannot imagine them making this trade - or any other this season.

[sasaint]

PATFO owes the Duncan and Manu and every other Spurs player that made a sacrifice a *quality* player. LMA is not delivering on that *quality* so honestly if he gets canned and Spurs still win a championship then it would not matter. It gives notice to everyone else who signs with the Spurs that it isn't a walk in the park to play here. Dump LMA pronto!

No wonder Pop went ballistic last night. LMA made a bad pass to Manu that led to a layup by the wolves. He just lost it and took it out on the refs so he would get thrown out.

Honestly, a trade is likely in the works. Pop has completely had it with the bum.

(c) copyrighted #ceperez

-----
Parker/Mills
Green/Manu/Simmons
Leonard/Anderson/Butler
Gasol/Diaw/West/Bonner
Duncan/Boban/Noah

So, do you have some inside scoop the rest of us lack? Having a "trade in the works" at this juncture would be even more divergent from the Spurs' MO than signing LMA in the first place. If this comes true, what advice can you offer me on the stock market? :lol

[SpursBig3s]

It just blows my mind how someone can CONSISTENTLY have incorrect and borderline retarded takes on a thread. I mean my god, just stop posting.

Gasol had his shot last year to join the team. He took the money instead.

[sasaint]

It just blows my mind how someone can CONSISTENTLY have incorrect and borderline retarded takes on a thread. I mean my god, just stop posting.

Gasol had his shot last year to join the team. He took the money instead.

Didn't I read that he (and his wife) wanted to live in a city that offered more "culture" than San Antonio?

[SAGirl]

I can't see a trade for these guys happening at all, but I can see Pop being upset by Aldridge last game. But listen, every one of our other guys has stunk up the joint on occasion and gotten Pop angry enough to get thrown out, so not taking last game too far.

[ceperez]

I am not on board your dump LMA train yet. But as you noted elsewhere, the guy has been coasting - for at least five games. At the start of the season I was pleasantly surprised with his defense and offensive rebounding, and I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on fitting into our offense. But lately, I am beginning to have serious doubts.

So, let me ask you about your longer range "vision" for the Spurs. Assuming that the Bulls would take LMA in exchange for Gasol and Noah, that would give us a logjam this season at the 4/5, with Duncan, Boris, DWest, Boban and Gasol and Noah. But we would have only Boris and (conceivably) Duncan in the fold for next season. How would you see the Spurs' roster of bigs in 2016 and beyond? In other posts you have pointed out the abundance of free agent talent on the market next summer, but you have focused on guys like Durant (which is fruitless), Batum, Ariza, et al. But we will need bigs more than these guys. What is R C ceperez's master plan? I must say, as trade-averse as the Spurs are, I cannot imagine them making this trade - or any other this season.

The logjam is just one additional player (i.e. Noah) that is currently injury riddled. Interestingly though, Noah is the same age as Aldridge and is a recent DPOY. So the logjam isn't any different that the current one.

I expect to see Gasol in a Spurs uniform for 2-3 more years. He's got a mini-rejuvenation going on and his numbers are quite decent. I don't see a drop off in performance relative to what LMA is doing now.

I agree attempting for Durant is low probability.

It is of course a risky trade, but if you can get almost the same kind of player and have more flexible cap room, then it makes sense. The real question is whether LMA has any upside left. One third of the season is gone and I can't recall a game where he exceeded expectations.

In addition, I only bring up this trade idea because the Bulls had sent out feelers that they want to get rid of their bigs.

[ceperez]

So, do you have some inside scoop the rest of us lack? Having a "trade in the works" at this juncture would be even more divergent from the Spurs' MO than signing LMA in the first place. If this comes true, what advice can you offer me on the stock market? :lol

Sorry, I'm just a casual fan like the rest. Just reading the tea leaves. Stock market? Buy MU.

[ceperez]

Didn't I read that he (and his wife) wanted to live in a city that offered more "culture" than San Antonio?

The guy is playing heavy minutes despite Thibodeau being canned. Besides, its the Bulls who are initiating the trade. It's not like he's a free-agent that has a choice.

[ceperez]

I can't see a trade for these guys happening at all, but I can see Pop being upset by Aldridge last game. But listen, every one of our other guys has stunk up the joint on occasion and gotten Pop angry enough to get thrown out, so not taking last game too far.

Yeah, but you don't expect your max player to be consistently stinking for past several games.

Pop knows he sucks and he broadcast it to the entire league. The story of course is that Pop was complaining about Garnet roughing up LMA, but go review the tape. He went ballistic because the pass was so bad! This is the sequel to RJ and it isn't looking very pretty.

If you want to see how LMA should play like, just look for his highlights on Youtube. You will realize that its not anything near the over-weight player the Spurs have now.

[sasaint]

The logjam is just one additional player (i.e. Noah) that is currently injury riddled. Interestingly though, Noah is the same age as Aldridge and is a recent DPOY. So the logjam isn't any different that the current one.

I expect to see Gasol in a Spurs uniform for 2-3 more years. He's got a mini-rejuvenation going on and his numbers are quite decent. I don't see a drop off in performance relative to what LMA is doing now.

I agree attempting for Durant is low probability.

It is of course a risky trade, but if you can get almost the same kind of player and have more flexible cap room, then it makes sense. The real question is whether LMA has any upside left. One third of the season is gone and I can't recall a game where he exceeded expectations.

In addition, I only bring up this trade idea because the Bulls had sent out feelers that they want to get rid of their bigs.

As to the first bolded text above, that's my question: how do you plan to use the cap space, and what bigs do you see on our roster moving into the future. You apparently believe we can re-sign Gasol despite the fact that he didn't want to come here two years ago. So that might give us Gasol, Boris and Duncan (?). Who else?

As to the second bolded text above, I agree that LMA has been generally underwhelming. More disturbingly he is not showing any signs of "getting it". I have seen a couple of posters comments questioning his BBIQ, and I am beginning to. That alone sets Gasol apart from LMA. But I don't like a plan to replace a thirty-year old with somebody who is 5 years older. At some point we need an infusion of some youth. Even at thirty, LMA is an infusion of youth on the Spurs! :lol

[sasaint]

The guy is playing heavy minutes despite Thibodeau being canned. Besides, its the Bulls who are initiating the trade. It's not like he's a free-agent that has a choice.

But my question is not about getting him in a trade. It is about re-signing him.

[ceperez]

As to the first bolded text above, that's my question: how do you plan to use the cap space, and what bigs do you see on our roster moving into the future. You apparently believe we can re-sign Gasol despite the fact that he didn't want to come here two years ago. So that might give us Gasol, Boris and Duncan (?). Who else?

As to the second bolded text above, I agree that LMA has been generally underwhelming. More disturbingly he is not showing any signs of "getting it". I have seen a couple of posters comments questioning his BBIQ, and I am beginning to. That alone sets Gasol apart from LMA. But I don't like a plan to replace a thirty-year old with somebody who is 5 years older. At some point we need an infusion of some youth. Even at thirty, LMA is an infusion of youth on the Spurs! :lol

Boban is 27 years old.

Honestly, even if LMA is 30, I don't think he's going to deliver the goods. His attitude and basketball IQ are just not a the level one expects.

I think Spurs can have a good enough player in Gasol into 2017. In 2017, Serge Ibaka is available.

[ceperez]

But my question is not about getting him in a trade. It is about re-signing him.

Spurs can keep him if the Spurs win it all. Manu and Tim are likely not coming back if Spurs fail this year. It is must win situation this year and we can't have players like LMA coasting.

[SAGirl]

Yeah, but you don't expect your max player to be consistently stinking for past several games.

Pop knows he sucks and he broadcast it to the entire league. The story of course is that Pop was complaining about Garnet roughing up LMA, but go review the tape. He went ballistic because the pass was so bad! This is the sequel to RJ and it isn't looking very pretty.

If you want to see how LMA should play like, just look for his highlights on Youtube. You will realize that its not anything near the over-weight player the Spurs have now.
I do remember him in Portland and Pop is playing him different. He only played in one system that was specifically designed for him in Portland, and maybe that masked deficiencies in his game. He's seemed lower in BBIQ than I remember, but I guess I now see why BBIQ and not athleticism is the main selling point in playing for Pop. He's been a willing passer, but reminds me of Green in making incorrect reads and hesitating. Can't see Pop trading Green either.

[ceperez]

I do remember him in Portland and Pop is playing him different. He only played in one system that was specifically designed for him in Portland, and maybe that masked deficiencies in his game. He's seemed lower in BBIQ than I remember, but I guess I now see why BBIQ and not athleticism is the main selling point in playing for Pop. He's been a willing passer, but reminds me of Green in making incorrect reads and hesitating. Can't see Pop trading Green either.

I don't see Pop trading Green.

I have no idea as to how LMA is going to turn around his game. I don't know if you noticed in that 2nd game against the Wizards. Pop took LMA out of the game during crunch time. Pop needed the team to execute on plays that they didn't execute in a while. Anyway, you could see in LMA's body language that he was sulking on the bench. Give me a freakin' break!!

What motivates a coach to prefer 'players who have gotten over themselves' over players with a lot more talent? Put yourself in Pop's place. He's asking himself, "why do I have to put up with this kind of player?"

[DAF86]

Front court is not an issue of us, tbh.

[sasaint]

I can't see a trade for these guys happening at all, but I can see Pop being upset by Aldridge last game. But listen, every one of our other guys has stunk up the joint on occasion and gotten Pop angry enough to get thrown out, so not taking last game too far.

I obviously cannot speak for ceperez, but it does seem clear that his observations about LMA are not limited to last game. Nor mine. He has been underwhelming since his arrival - ranging from poor to good, but nowhere near max money or all-star level! And if you were to somehow graph his "performance" - not just a stat or stats, but things like hustle plays, smart plays (eye test stuff) his graph would be flat at best, but probably more like a very slight but steady decline IMHO. I was initially pleasantly surprised by his D and O-rebounding, and I expected the rest of his game to come along. I just don't see that it has, and a third of the season is now gone. I am a little alarmed at this point. Although all this trade speculation is just that - fantasy league stuff.

[Mr Bones]

The criticism of Aldridge is falling squarely on the offensive side of the court-- but the Spurs are the best defensive team in the NBA, and by a pretty good margin, and by a significant margin over last year's team... he has to get some credit for this, don't you think? I never expected Aldridge to be a 20 ppg guy with the Spurs, but his improved FG% in December is a good sign of steady acclimation, and if he continues to be a moderately efficient 14-16 ppg guy, leads the team in rebounding, & continues to be part of a great defensive unit, that'll make me happy. I've never been a fan of the 20 ft jumper, ever, but especially now in the 3pt era... that's the one thing I'd want him to eliminate...

[Mr Bones]

Aldridge was never my favorite, but signing him when the Spurs did was a no-brainer due to the NBA's salary cap situation: it's going to rise dramatically due to the new TV deal. Lebron & others will get $30mil/yr: in the summer of 2017, Aldridge's contract will be the equivalent of a minor star's contract, & Danny Green's will be closer to an MLE contract.

[ceperez]

Aldridge was never my favorite, but signing him when the Spurs did was a no-brainer due to the NBA's salary cap situation: it's going to rise dramatically due to the new TV deal. Lebron & others will get $30mil/yr: in the summer of 2017, Aldridge's contract will be the equivalent of a minor star's contract, & Danny Green's will be closer to an MLE contract.

Well then, if he's got a minor start contract then he should be treated like a minor star. Trade him if he doesn't deliver.

[sasaint]

The criticism of Aldridge is falling squarely on the offensive side of the court-- but the Spurs are the best defensive team in the NBA, and by a pretty good margin, and by a significant margin over last year's team... he has to get some credit for this, don't you think? I never expected Aldridge to be a 20 ppg guy with the Spurs, but his improved FG% in December is a good sign of steady acclimation, and if he continues to be a moderately efficient 14-16 ppg guy, leads the team in rebounding, & continues to be part of a great defensive unit, that'll make me happy. I've never been a fan of the 20 ft jumper, ever, but especially now in the 3pt era... that's the one thing I'd want him to eliminate...

From the beginning of the season, I have consistently defended the guy based on his unexpected prowess as a defender and offensive rebounder. So I agree with you there. The growing concern is partly that he continues to be a moderately efficient 14-16 PPG guy. I did not want, nor do I now want him necessarily to score more, but I do want him to be more efficient and not gum up the works as he frequently does. But after a third of a season watching him every game, I just haven't seen many real hustle plays or "smart plays" or, frankly, evidence of a very high BBIQ. That is not what I expect out of a max contract guy or former all-star.

[sasaint]

Well then, if he's got a minor start contract then he should be treated like a minor star. Trade him if he doesn't deliver.

:lmao (first time I have used that in this forum!)

[ceperez]

From the beginning of the season, I have consistently defended the guy based on his unexpected prowess as a defender and offensive rebounder. So I agree with you there. The growing concern is partly that he continues to be a moderately efficient 14-16 PPG guy. I did not want, nor do I now want him necessarily to score more, but I do want him to be more efficient and not gum up the works as he frequently does. But after a third of a season watching him every game, I just haven't seen many real hustle plays or "smart plays" or, frankly, evidence of a very high BBIQ. That is not what I expect out of a max contract guy or former all-star.

A lot of ST posters where deriding OKC for signing Enes Kanter for $15m a year. Well, Kanter has a PER of 24+ while LMA has a PER of 18+. OKC is getting much more and paying $5m less a year.

This honestly does feel like Richard Jefferson 2.0.

[ceperez]

:lmao (first time I have used that in this forum!)

Lots of posters are treating him like he's a major star and cannot possibly imagine him be traded so quickly.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

A lot of ST posters where deriding OKC for signing Enes Kanter for $15m a year. Well, Kanter has a PER of 24+ while LMA has a PER of 18+. OKC is getting much more and paying $5m less a year.

This honestly does feel like Richard Jefferson 2.0.

What a shitty take :lmao

[SAGirl]

The criticism of Aldridge is falling squarely on the offensive side of the court-- but the Spurs are the best defensive team in the NBA, and by a pretty good margin, and by a significant margin over last year's team... he has to get some credit for this, don't you think? I never expected Aldridge to be a 20 ppg guy with the Spurs, but his improved FG% in December is a good sign of steady acclimation, and if he continues to be a moderately efficient 14-16 ppg guy, leads the team in rebounding, & continues to be part of a great defensive unit, that'll make me happy. I've never been a fan of the 20 ft jumper, ever, but especially now in the 3pt era... that's the one thing I'd want him to eliminate...

If Pop wanted him at the 3 pt line, he would. He was already taking those shots when wide open in Portland. We can criticize a lot, but where he spots up is on Pop. They want him to rebound and are playing him very close to the basket. For whatever reason, that is on Pop.

POP occasionally calls up the Portland post up for him since that is his shot, but they have also posted him up closer to the basket at times and that was not the bulk of his game. It's an adjustment. He might even be struggling with his post up game having to adjust to what Pop wants and using moves that were not his best. (I don't remember him being posted up so close to the basket in Portland, so it an adjustment.)

I think he's struggled these games along with Tony. Certainly you don't expect poor production from a max player, you expect consistency, but if you alter a good 50% of his game and have him outside his comfort zone, he will struggle.

I was actually disappointed with how Pop was using him early. I am not alarmed bc we are winning, but yea, he will need to increase his level of play.

[ChumpDumper]

So folks.... what do you think of LMA performance agains the t-wolves? If it weren't for some good assists, LMA could have laid an egg.

The writing is on the wall... LMA may not even be worth a trade for Gasol and Noah.You need to stop this stupid obsession you have.

[sasaint]

Lots of posters are treating him like he's a major star and cannot possibly imagine him be traded so quickly.

I know; you can count me among those who can't imagine our trading him this quickly. It is just not our MO. Just recall Jefferson... But he is rapidly showing that he is not the major star we expected.

I do appreciate your decisive flippancy! :lol

[Mr Bones]

From the beginning of the season, I have consistently defended the guy based on his unexpected prowess as a defender and offensive rebounder. So I agree with you there. The growing concern is partly that he continues to be a moderately efficient 14-16 PPG guy. I did not want, nor do I now want him necessarily to score more, but I do want him to be more efficient and not gum up the works as he frequently does. But after a third of a season watching him every game, I just haven't seen many real hustle plays or "smart plays" or, frankly, evidence of a very high BBIQ. That is not what I expect out of a max contract guy or former all-star.

He was never a highly efficient scorer. His last 3 seasons with Portland his FG%s were 46.6%, 45.8%, and 48.4%... He's a moderately efficient scorer who helps the team O by drawing big defenders away from the basket with his mid-range shot. As far as "hustle" goes, yeah, I agree he looks a little too casual, but again he is part of an elite defense and his block numbers are slightly up even though his mpg are down... so, he's buying into the defense-first philosophy, which is something Portland was never known for...

[ceperez]

This just in: http://www.movienewsguide.com/nba-trade-rumors-chicago-bulls-trading-joakim-noah-boston-celtics-pacers/134690

Joakim Noah rumored to go to Celtics or Pacers.

"Joakim Noah’s declining game performance is due to his age and, consequently, his lack of energy. Such traits are a no-no with the Bulls’ strong offensive tactic. "

Does sound like LMA to me. Note: Noah is the same age as LMA

[ceperez]

You need to stop this stupid obsession you have.

Can't help it, I was traumatized with the Richard Jefferson situation. Those were really dark years.

Looking for any glimpse of hope that LMA is not RJ 2.0.

[SAGirl]

Can't help it, I was traumatized with the Richard Jefferson situation. Those were really dark years.

Looking for any glimpse of hope that LMA is not RJ 2.0.

Fingers crossed. I didn't follow those years so I am not traumatized like you, maybe that makes me more tolerant.

[sasaint]

Fingers crossed. I didn't follow those years so I am not traumatized like you, maybe that makes me more tolerant.

Extremely frustrating time for Spurs fans. RJ went from Kidd's all-star level running buddy on the Nets to a near zero with us at a time when we thought we were a SF away from a dynasty.

[ChumpDumper]

Can't help it, I was traumatized with the Richard Jefferson situation. Those were really dark years.

Looking for any glimpse of hope that LMA is not RJ 2.0.If you can't tell the difference, you need to stop posting forever.

[ceperez]

Extremely frustrating time for Spurs fans. RJ went from Kidd's all-star level running buddy on the Nets to a near zero with us at a time when we thought we were a SF away from a dynasty.

If you take a look at RJ's numbers, there's a drop off in the PPG when he started playing for the Spurs. A 7 point drop off where he ended up to be just a marginal player averaging 12 PPG. On his second year, he was able to drastically improve his 3 point shooting but his PPG remained around the same. His playing time dropped by 5 minutes to 30 minutes per game. RJ Played 7 seasons before coming to SAS. RJ was 29.

Contrast Aldridge. An 8 point drop off now averaging 15 points a game. Playing time also dropped off by 5 minutes to 30 minute per game. LMA played 8 seasons before coming to SAS. LMA is 30.

It looks like history is repeating itself!

[NASpurs]

This just in: http://www.movienewsguide.com/nba-trade-rumors-chicago-bulls-trading-joakim-noah-boston-celtics-pacers/134690

Joakim Noah rumored to go to Celtics or Pacers.

"Joakim Noah’s declining game performance is due to his age and, consequently, his lack of energy. Such traits are a no-no with the Bulls’ strong offensive tactic. "

Does sound like LMA to me. Note: Noah is the same age as LMA

movienewsguide.com for all the hot, latest NBA news... Ok...

[ceperez]

Extremely frustrating time for Spurs fans. RJ went from Kidd's all-star level running buddy on the Nets to a near zero with us at a time when we thought we were a SF away from a dynasty.

RJ wasn't actually a complete zero. He averaged 30 minutes a game with 12 PPG. What kills you is that it isn't that bad, but it isn't stellar either.

It is just like LMA. He is averaging 30 minutes a game with 15 PPG. Fans are saying it's okay, but really it isn't. It's all fools gold, I'm telling ya! It's fools gold!!

[sasaint]

RJ wasn't actually a complete zero. He averaged 30 minutes a game with 12 PPG. What kills you is that it isn't that bad, but it isn't stellar either.

It is just like LMA. He is averaging 30 minutes a game with 15 PPG. Fans are saying it's okay, but really it isn't. It's all fools gold, I'm telling ya! It's fools gold!!

Yeah, I didn't look up his stats before I made the knee-jerk "near zero" comment. I do remember his 3-point shooting improving a lot in his second year. Actually, your pointing out the similarity in stats causes me to concentrate even more on my "eye test" analysis. RJ continues to generate such opprobrium on ST because of the same lack of hustle plays, "smart" plays and BBIQ that I do perceive in LMA's game. Ouch! I'm not quite yet converted, though.

Tbh, I expected LMA to spurn us in free agency. My expectation/hope was that we would then sign his teammate, Robin Lopez. How do you think that would have worked out?

[ceperez]

Yeah, I didn't look up his stats before I made the knee-jerk "near zero" comment. I do remember his 3-point shooting improving a lot in his second year. Actually, your pointing out the similarity in stats causes me to concentrate even more on my "eye test" analysis. RJ continues to generate such opprobrium on ST because of the same lack of hustle plays, "smart" plays and BBIQ that I do perceive in LMA's game. Ouch! I'm not quite yet converted, though.

Tbh, I expected LMA to spurn us in free agency. My expectation/hope was that we would then sign his teammate, Robin Lopez. How do you think that would have worked out?

Yes, the lack of hustle, smarts and BBIQ is the same. History tends to repeat itself. If Pop couldn't teach RJ to play, he definitely isn't going to do better with LMA. The clock is ticking... we shall see come time to play against GSW.

[SAGirl]

Yeah, I didn't look up his stats before I made the knee-jerk "near zero" comment. I do remember his 3-point shooting improving a lot in his second year. Actually, your pointing out the similarity in stats causes me to concentrate even more on my "eye test" analysis. RJ continues to generate such opprobrium on ST because of the same lack of hustle plays, "smart" plays and BBIQ that I do perceive in LMA's game. Ouch! I'm not quite yet converted, though.

Tbh, I expected LMA to spurn us in free agency. My expectation/hope was that we would then sign his teammate, Robin Lopez. How do you think that would have worked out?

Actually, now that you point this out, it is really tough to predict how established stars would do in our system before you bring them in) Except for Lamarcus, our best players are home grown. You really need BBIQ, defense, hustle, and good instincts. We gave some different quality passers (from legend to adequate, the whole gamut), but unless you are innately known as a passer/high IQ guy like Bobo (also previously known as a too laid back, prone to laziness dude, but his have talent and BBIQ was not in question), it's difficult to assess.

Lamarcus has made many hustle plays. It's what has kept us in games when he's struggled. He has really committed to defense. Sure at times he's made a defensive mistake. He had never played in Pop's system.

Wasn't there an issue with Jefferson not even trying on D?

[sasaint]

Actually, now that you point this out, it is really tough to predict how established stars would do in our system before you bring them in) Except for Lamarcus, our best players are home grown. You really need BBIQ, defense, hustle, and good instincts. We gave some different quality passers (from legend to adequate, the whole gamut), but unless you are innately known as a passer/high IQ guy like Bobo (also previously known as a too laid back, prone to laziness dude, but his have talent and BBIQ was not in question), it's difficult to assess.

Lamarcus has made many hustle plays. It's what has kept us in games when he's struggled. He has really committed to defense. Sure at times he's made a defensive mistake. He had never played in Pop's system.

Wasn't there an issue with Jefferson not even trying on D?

Maybe it is splitting a hair that nobody else can see, but I do think there is a difference between hustle plays and defensive effort - or offensive effort for that matter. Of all other posters you probably know better than anybody how I have been impressed with his very solid defense. (Although last night - and at other times - without Tim, LMA really fell on his face as the defensive stopper stand-in.) But I still have not been impressed by any "hustle" plays - the kind of effort that energizes the crowd (not to mention teammates), pulling cheers out of them and bringing them to their feet. Not to say he hasn't made some very good plays on defense. But I would characterize his play as "uninspired" and not really capable of inspiring others. He is definitely not LMAlpha.

[ceperez]

Actually, now that you point this out, it is really tough to predict how established stars would do in our system before you bring them in) Except for Lamarcus, our best players are home grown. You really need BBIQ, defense, hustle, and good instincts. We gave some different quality passers (from legend to adequate, the whole gamut), but unless you are innately known as a passer/high IQ guy like Bobo (also previously known as a too laid back, prone to laziness dude, but his have talent and BBIQ was not in question), it's difficult to assess.

Lamarcus has made many hustle plays. It's what has kept us in games when he's struggled. He has really committed to defense. Sure at times he's made a defensive mistake. He had never played in Pop's system.

Wasn't there an issue with Jefferson not even trying on D?

To be fair with Jefferson, he played adequate defense but he had trouble slashing to the rim in offense. He wasn't the same RJ that gave Spurs fits in the championship series against the Nets. Honestly, he was an adequate player, but not good enough to take the Spurs to the next level.

Same situation with LMA, Spurs signed him to take the aging Spurs to the next level. The only fortunate event is that Leonard has taken his game to the next level. Without that change, Spurs would be struggling like last year.

[sasaint]

To be fair with Jefferson, he played adequate defense but he had trouble slashing to the rim in offense. He wasn't the same RJ that gave Spurs fits in the championship series against the Nets. Honestly, he was an adequate player, but not good enough to take the Spurs to the next level.

Same situation with LMA, Spurs signed him to take the aging Spurs to the next level. The only fortunate event is that Leonard has taken his game to the next level. Without that change, Spurs would be struggling like last year.

I think you are being charitable. IIRC, RJ didn't have any trouble slashing; he rarely ever tried after he joined us.
:bang

[ceperez]

I think you are being charitable. IIRC, RJ didn't have any trouble slashing; he rarely ever tried after he joined us.
:bang

Do or do not, there is no try. - Yoda

LMA honestly has the size and talent to take the Spurs to the promised land.

The question is 'will he bring the nasty'? Do we need him to develop a basketball IQ?

[SAGirl]

. The only fortunate event is that Leonard has taken his game to the next level. Without that change, Spurs would be struggling like last year.
This is undeniable, Kawhi has risen to the occasion, and if not for him, there are quite a lot of games we would have lost. He's deservedly an MVP candidate.
Lamarcus certainty has not yet looked consistently right. He's had some good games, let's not pretend he hasn't come through some games. There was a Portland and Boston game he played really well, and he was fine in the CHicago game, carrying us for stretches, but OTOH he's had some very underwhelming games as well.

The way ppl criticize young guys like Kyle, who are still very much developing and rightfully will make their mistakes and be inconsistent, you would have to think there is just a lot of subjectivity around. Kyle has the strictest standard by Pop. Did you see the level of perfection Pop expects from him? (and I have seen him be really hard on himself for messing up), and this guy doesn't? Hmmmm... It does make me think about his fiber and competitiveness.

When our schedule gets tougher I guess we'll see.

[ceperez]

The way ppl criticize young guys like Kyle, who are still very much developing and rightfully will make their mistakes and be inconsistent, you would have to think there is just a lot of subjectivity around. Kyle has the strictest standard by Pop. Did you see the level of perfection Pop expects from him? (and I have seen him be really hard on himself for messing up), and this guy doesn't? Hmmmm... It does make me think about his fiber and competitiveness.

When our schedule gets tougher I guess we'll see.

Ah, you are beginning to see it now. Why Pop is boiling mad from within. Had to spill over sometime, and it did. He got himself tossed!

This is a problem if Pop doesn't have the liberty of berating LMA for his bonehead plays.

BTW, looks like Bulls fans want to unload Pau Gasol: https://dawindycity.com/2015/12/28/chicago-bulls-analysis-trade-pau-gasol-joakim-noah-taj-gibson/5/ unfortunately, for similar reasons why I want to unload LMA.

[Ice009]

Fingers crossed. I didn't follow those years so I am not traumatized like you, maybe that makes me more tolerant.

It's not the same. I was one of only a few posters here that was very angry with RJ during his first month here. I wanted him gone after his first month. I didn't think he was good enough to be on the team. I thought he was very soft mentally. Some posters here said I was crazy and needed to give him more time. Looks like I was right about that one well before most other people. It took the Spurs 2+ years to get rid of him and I wanted him gone after his first month.

Aldridge has already been better than RJ ever was here.

[exstatic]

Yeah, I didn't look up his stats before I made the knee-jerk "near zero" comment. I do remember his 3-point shooting improving a lot in his second year. Actually, your pointing out the similarity in stats causes me to concentrate even more on my "eye test" analysis. RJ continues to generate such opprobrium on ST because of the same lack of hustle plays, "smart" plays and BBIQ that I do perceive in LMA's game. Ouch! I'm not quite yet converted, though.

Tbh, I expected LMA to spurn us in free agency. My expectation/hope was that we would then sign his teammate, Robin Lopez. How do you think that would have worked out?
Don't be fooled by "old stats" like ppg. Rj's first year here, his ORtg was 110 and his DRtg was 106. LMA's ORtg is 106 and his DRtg is 95. He's having MUCH more effect than RJ ever did with the Spurs. RJ's overall rating was +4 twice and +7 once. His downfall was that he went from 4 to 7 and then back to 4, which is the point where we dumped him.

LMAs issues are twofold. His minutes were cut by 1/6th, and his spots on the floor are frequently used by both Tim and Kawhi. If you just projected him into last year's minutes, he'd be scoring about 18. I fully expect an upward scoring bounce when Tim retires.

Don't go to the ridiculous ceperez dark side, dude.

[sasaint]

Don't be fooled by "old stats" like ppg. Rj's first year here, his ORtg was 110 and his DRtg was 106. LMA's ORtg is 106 and his DRtg is 95. He's having MUCH more effect than RJ ever did with the Spurs. RJ's overall rating was +4 twice and +7 once. His downfall was that he went from 4 to 7 and then back to 4, which is the point where we dumped him.

LMAs issues are twofold. His minutes were cut by 1/6th, and his spots on the floor are frequently used by both Tim and Kawhi. If you just projected him into last year's minutes, he'd be scoring about 18. I fully expect an upward scoring bounce when Tim retires.

Don't go to the ridiculous ceperez dark side, dude.

This is one reason we should be pairing LMA with Boris and Tim with DWest the majority of the time. But with Boban's continued development, I expect he will work his way into the lineup in combinations whose effectiveness is unknown at this juncture. I do like ceperez's "preferred" lineup of Boban, Boris, Manu, Patty and Kawhi/Simmons in the brief glimpses we have had of it.

The advanced metrics you cite confirm my observations that LMA has delivered on the defensive end far beyond expectations (at least mine). I haven't gone over to the Dark Side yet!

I am not looking into the post-Tim future for his "numbers" to increase. I am somewhat concerned about games like his last outing when Tim wasn't playing. Doesn't LMA seem to you like he is coasting or even pretty much a non-presence at times?

:toast

[ceperez]

This is one reason we should be pairing LMA with Boris and Tim with DWest the majority of the time. But with Boban's continued development, I expect he will work his way into the lineup in combinations whose effectiveness is unknown at this juncture. I do like ceperez's "preferred" lineup of Boban, Boris, Manu, Patty and Kawhi/Simmons in the brief glimpses we have had of it.

The advanced metrics you cite confirm my observations that LMA has delivered on the defensive end far beyond expectations (at least mine). I haven't gone over to the Dark Side yet!

I am not looking into the post-Tim future for his "numbers" to increase. I am somewhat concerned about games like his last outing when Tim wasn't playing. Doesn't LMA seem to you like he is coasting or even pretty much a non-presence at times?

:toast

Let's look at the numbers, ESPN's plus-minus:

Defensive Plus Minus:

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM

Duncan leads the league at 6.13
Leonard at #4 at 4.76
West at #17 at 3.04
Anderson at #39 at 2.27
...
Aldridge #74 at 1.58
oh.... BTW offensive plus minus .... Aldridge rank is #208!

Yes.... absolutely coasting.

[sasaint]

Let's look at the numbers, ESPN's plus-minus:

Defensive Plus Minus:

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM

Duncan leads the league at 6.13
Leonard at #4 at 4.76
West at #17 at 3.04
Anderson at #39 at 2.27
...
Aldridge #74 at 1.58
oh.... BTW offensive plus minus .... Aldridge rank is #208!

Yes.... absolutely coasting.

My eye test tells me that he is effective on the defensive end, so I am surprised that his Defensive +/- is only #74. The Offensive +/- of #208 does not surprise me at all. It is on the offensive end where he seems pretty invisible at times, and seems to gum up the works at others. But that is only based on my perceptions as a fan, not any "numbers".

[SpursBig3s]

The only stat I care about is winning. And that stat has us at 27-6 and 2nd place in the entire league, and like it or not Aldridge has had a hand in it. I don't understand how some can constantly complain about what we could be doing better where if it weren't for an all-time Historic start with a generational player, we would be the best in the league and everyone would be talking about the Spurs.

[sasaint]

The only stat I care about is winning. And that stat has us at 27-6 and 2nd place in the entire league, and like it or not Aldridge has had a hand in it. I don't understand how some can constantly complain about what we could be doing better where if it weren't for an all-time Historic start with a generational player, we would be the best in the league and everyone would be talking about the Spurs.

Fans enjoy being fans for many different reasons and on many different levels. If winning is all you care about, that's fine. A lot of fans on ST enjoy analytics and advanced metrics way beyond my comprehension. I am more inclined to just go with my "eye test" to evaluate how well the team and certain players seem to be playing. I enjoy winning as much as the next guy, but I also enjoy analyzing (on some level) how the game is played, how well the team is playing, and how well the various players are playing. That's how I enjoy being a fan. Ceperez and I (and others) are just having a discussion essentially about how good or bad our investment in LMA seems to be, whether there is a way to get a better return on our investment, and more generally about the future of the franchise at a pretty critical transition. If you do not like such "complaining" don't join in. Nobody is complaining about your not "complaining".

:toast

[Kikoluna]

The only stat I care about is winning. And that stat has us at 27-6 and 2nd place in the entire league, and like it or not Aldridge has had a hand in it. I don't understand how some can constantly complain about what we could be doing better where if it weren't for an all-time Historic start with a generational player, we would be the best in the league and everyone would be talking about the Spurs.
Lol again with "historic" and "generational player"? Common man, Stop Drinking The Kool Aid espn Gives you. He's just a shooter.

[sasaint]

Let's look at the numbers, ESPN's plus-minus:

Defensive Plus Minus:

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM

Duncan leads the league at 6.13
Leonard at #4 at 4.76
West at #17 at 3.04
Anderson at #39 at 2.27
...
Aldridge #74 at 1.58
oh.... BTW offensive plus minus .... Aldridge rank is #208!

Yes.... absolutely coasting.

I am not really trying to help you in your argument, but you did make me curious about Tiago. So I looked up his RPM on ESPN for the last two seasons. I do understand the durability issue, but I still wanted to see his numbers when he was on the floor. In 2013-14 Tiago played in 59 games. His ORPM was 1.01, and his DRPM was 4.53. In 2014-15 Tiago played in 52 games. His OPRM was .59, and his DRPM was 2.7. In 2013-14, Tiago ranked #9 in the league in DRPM, and in 2014-15, he ranked #31. I didn't check his ORPMs.

[Chinook]

Curry is definitely a generational player who's damned near a legend at this point. Only players in his cohort who could challenge him are Davis and Kawhi. I think even Durant and Westbrook will be forgotten more easily.

[ceperez]

I am not really trying to help you in your argument, but you did make me curious about Tiago. So I looked up his RPM on ESPN for the last two seasons. I do understand the durability issue, but I still wanted to see his numbers when he was on the floor. In 2013-14 Tiago played in 59 games. His ORPM was 1.01, and his DRPM was 4.53. In 2014-15 Tiago played in 52 games. His OPRM was .59, and his DRPM was 2.7. In 2013-14, Tiago ranked #9 in the league in DRPM, and in 2014-15, he ranked #31. I didn't check his ORPMs.

There you go. Numbers that validate the issue. LMA is able to hide behind the stellar defensive play of both Duncan and Leonard. Both are in the top 5.

[SpursBig3s]

Lol again with "historic" and "generational player"? Common man, Stop Drinking The Kool Aid espn Gives you. He's just a shooter.


just because you're a Spurs fan and the Dubs are our biggest obstacle to the title doesn't mean you can't open your eyes and recognize that Curry is arguably the best player in the league right now and is one of the greatest shooters of all time.

[sasaint]

There you go. Numbers that validate the issue. LMA is able to hide behind the stellar defensive play of both Duncan and Leonard. Both are in the top 5.

Perhaps this is what is going on: Kawhi and Tim (especially) have elevated their defensive games due to the presence of LMA? It just seems to me (and Pop, too, apparently) that LMA is a much better defender than expected. BTW, what are LMA's numbers from the last couple of seasons?

[sasaint]

Curry is definitely a generational player who's damned near a legend at this point. Only players in his cohort who could challenge him are Davis and Kawhi. I think even Durant and Westbrook will be forgotten more easily.

Steph Curry is the goldarnest pure shooter and one of the best scorers I have ever seen. But calling him "generational" and "a near legend" after 5+ seasons in the league is a little premature, IMHO.

[exstatic]

Perhaps this is what is going on: Kawhi and Tim (especially) have elevated their defensive games due to the presence of LMA? It just seems to me (and Pop, too, apparently) that LMA is a much better defender than expected. BTW, what are LMA's numbers from the last couple of seasons?

No. If he sucked, or was even average, it would show in the team numbers. His DReb numbers and blocks are at career levels, in spite of losing 1/6th of his minutes. He's performing on D.

Just FYI, the eye test is a terrible way to judge performance. NBA GMs have gotten fired pretty regularly for using it,which is why any FO worth it's salt is using advanced analytics to make decisions, and why every arena in the NBA now has the SportVU cameras installed. The numbers don't lie. Your brain, otoh, can lie to you. It's called confirmation bias. You will always have an opinion about player A. If it's positive, you tend to remember the good plays. If it's negative, only t he bad ones. Either of those gets you into trouble as a talent evaluator.

Dig in and learn what advanced metrics mean. ORtg and DRtg are pretty easy. Each is a measure of how many points your team either scores or gives up per 100 possessions when you're on the floor.

[SpursIndonesia]

The Gasol sip has sailed two summer ago, and neither parties should be looking back at it. Gasol had his chance to choose championship level team, and he has chosen "culture" & more money - nothing wrong with that, his choice, his right. LMA actually chose to be here, at least give him a season before calling it a quit & seek for a divorce.

[sasaint]

No. If he sucked, or was even average, it would show in the team numbers. His DReb numbers and blocks are at career levels, in spite of losing 1/6th of his minutes. He's performing on D.

Just FYI, the eye test is a terrible way to judge performance. NBA GMs have gotten fired pretty regularly for using it,which is why any FO worth it's salt is using advanced analytics to make decisions, and why every arena in the NBA now has the SportVU cameras installed. The numbers don't lie. Your brain, otoh, can lie to you. It's called confirmation bias. You will always have an opinion about player A. If it's positive, you tend to remember the good plays. If it's negative, only t he bad ones. Either of those gets you into trouble as a talent evaluator.

Dig in and learn what advanced metrics mean. ORtg and DRtg are pretty easy. Each is a measure of how many points your team either scores or gives up per 100 possessions when you're on the floor.

Yes, l understand confirmation bias and ORtg and DRtg, and I love when some of you posters provide some advanced metrics in support of your positions. But I have the luxury of being a lazy fan and not a paid talent evaluator for some NBA front office. I appreciate advanced metrics, but I don't often spend the time to check them out, as I was curious enough to do for Tiago earlier. But there seems to be an odd paradox here. You say that LMA is playing good D, based on rebounds and blocks. That assessment confirms my (disfavored) eye test, but contradicts the DRtg for LMA cited by ceperez.

[exstatic]

Yes, l understand confirmation bias and ORtg and DRtg, and I love when some of you posters provide some advanced metrics in support of your positions. But I have the luxury of being a lazy fan and not a paid talent evaluator for some NBA front office. I appreciate advanced metrics, but I don't often spend the time to check them out, as I was curious enough to do for Tiago earlier. But there seems to be an odd paradox here. You say that LMA is playing good D, based on rebounds and blocks. That assessment confirms my (disfavored) eye test, but contradicts the DRtg for LMA cited by ceperez.

ceperez isn't citing DRtg, he's using DPM, which is a long range multi season rolling average type of stat. DRtg wouldn't support his views.

[sasaint]

ceperez isn't citing DRtg, he's using DPM, which is a long range multi season rolling average type of stat. DRtg wouldn't support his views.

Oh, okay. I did not read your first comment closely enough. I did understand that he was using DRPM, but I thought that measured the number of points given up per 100 possessions. If it does not, I do not understand the stat. Moreover, it seems that DRtg measures what I thought DRPM measures. My ignorance showing... So what does DRtg show about LMA's defensive performance this year?

[exstatic]

His DRtg of 95 is 7 points lower than any other season of his career. The best two on the Spurs are Tim and Kawhi at 91, and no one is over 100.

[sasaint]

His DRtg of 95 is 7 points lower than any other season of his career. The best two on the Spurs are Tim and Kawhi at 91, and no one is over 100.

Validation of my eye test! :toast You can't fire me! :lol

Thanks, exstatic for an introductory tutorial. Nice assist. :toast

[sasaint]

ceperez isn't citing DRtg, he's using DPM, which is a long range multi season rolling average type of stat. DRtg wouldn't support his views.

If DRPM is a multi season rolling average, then to go back to Tiago - his D must have seriously declined in 2014-15 for his RDPM to have dropped from #9 to #31. Right?

[ceperez]

Perhaps this is what is going on: Kawhi and Tim (especially) have elevated their defensive games due to the presence of LMA? It just seems to me (and Pop, too, apparently) that LMA is a much better defender than expected. BTW, what are LMA's numbers from the last couple of seasons?

Tiago in his healthy season is ranked #9.
In an unhealthy season he was ranked #31.
Aldridge is ranked #79 even when he's healthy.

In the previous season, 14-15 LMA is ranked #159 in DRPM. This is in fact what Pop is alluding to, he's better defensive today that he has been previously. However, it is compared from an extremely low bar.

[sasaint]

Tiago in his healthy season is ranked #9.
In an unhealthy season he was ranked #31.
Aldridge is ranked #79 even when he's healthy.

In the previous season, 14-15 LMA is ranked #159 in DRPM. This is in fact what Pop is alluding to, he's better defensive today that he has been previously. However, it is compared from an extremely low bar.

If, as exstatic states, DRPM is actually a multi-season rolling average, then isn't LMA actually playing lights out D this season to raise his #159 DRPM all the way to #79?

[ceperez]

ceperez isn't citing DRtg, he's using DPM, which is a long range multi season rolling average type of stat. DRtg wouldn't support his views.

What a load of BS. DRtg is an average just like DPRM.

DRPM: Player's estimated on-court impact on team defensive performance, measured in points allowed per 100 defensive possessions. As defined. It is an average for all the games played in the season.

In fact, I question the accuracy of DRTG because it is biased too much with the players on the court. Look Tony's is 99. Green is 96. Aldridge is 96. Compare that with DRPM which is drastically different for each player Tony is -.89, Green is .41 and Aldridge is 1.58. DRPM is a more accurate metric than you 'preferred' DRTG.

DRTG is a piss poor rating as compared to DRPM. DRPM is:

metric isolates the unique plus-minus impact of each NBA player by adjusting for the effects of each teammate, opposing player and coach. ... The RPM model sifts through more than 230,000 possessions each NBA season to tease apart the "real" plus-minus effects attributable to each player, employing techniques similar to those used by scientific researchers when they need to model the effects of numerous variables at the same time.

[ceperez]

If, as exstatic states, DRPM is actually a multi-season rolling average, then isn't LMA actually playing lights out D this season to raise his #159 DRPM all the way to #79?

Both are averages for the season.

Yes, LMA has improved defensively. (Also confirmed by Pop) However it's from a very low bar.

[spursistan]

Bulls going on a tailspin since he came back..might just offload him while he has value..he is starting to cancer it up apparently..

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25447839/report-joakim-noah-remains-unhappy-with-fred-hoiberg-bulls-role


A source said on Tuesday morning that Noah remains unhappy with his current standing in the organization, and “still hasn't moved past losing his starting job'' late in training camp. The source went onto say that Noah “hasn't been a distraction by any means, but isn't the biggest [coach Fred] Hoiberg fan these days.''

[GSH]

You guys do understand that stats like DRtg are still a factor of the team you're on. It factors in blocks, steals, and defensive Reb. But then it looks at the Team defensive rating and adjusts for the "known" defensive stops in the stats. (If that doesn't make sense, look it up.)

Perimeter defenders who don't get a lot of steals will mostly reflect the DRtg of the team, because they don't get a lot of rebounds or defensive boards. Pop generally discourages gambling on defense, which limits steals.

The point is, that playing on a good defensive team will make a mediocre defender's DRtg look better. And you always have to use some judgment when looking at stats. They just don't fit off-the-rack. The good thing is that Pop, at least, understands that good defense is the result of a team effort. Always. The results say that Aldridge has been playing solid defense.

[ceperez]

Bulls going on a tailspin since he came back..might just offload him while he has value..he is starting to cancer it up apparently..

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25447839/report-joakim-noah-remains-unhappy-with-fred-hoiberg-bulls-role

Interested in both Noah *and* Gasol. I wouldn't care for just Noah, too expensive and injury prone.

[spursistan]

Interested in both Noah *and* Gasol. I wouldn't care for just Noah, too expensive and injury prone.


you mean the Spurs? we aren't going to mess up with anything right now..I don't expect us to make any move even, negligent, barring a key injury (knock on woods)..

[Chinook]

And they're both worse than LMA, even combined -- hell, ESPECIALLY combined.

[Obstructed_View]

Why would the Spurs be interested in a guy who's complaining that he lost his starting job? He's not starting in San Antonio.

[SilverSpur]

Lets only get involved if we come out with draft picks. We don't need to mess with this team right now.
Trade the rights to overseas players that won't sign.

[Chillen]

The Bulls front office really is to cheap or attached to it's players to make any moves. This team could maybe get to the ECF but they will never win a championship with this core. The front office has had plenty of oppurtunitys to improve the team and has stuck with the same core for years. I don't care anymore what they do, if they trade some players or not. This is basketball hell, Cleveland built a contender overnight. Really, I have absolutely had it with this front office. This team doesn't have LeBron, or the talent of the Warriors/Spurs/Clippers. We are stuck in pretenders mode thanks to the front office.

[cutewizard]

noah as the last sub for our beloved Spurs could be......well.....interesting??

[ceperez]

Time to pull the trigger on a Gasol/Noah for Aldridge trade!

[silverblackfan]

Ha HA HAAA HAAAAH! Ridiculous that the Spurs would mess with this teams solid chemistry. Why trade when our last guy on the bench can still put great defense and offense on the Cavs?

[Mel_13]

Time to pull the trigger on a Gasol/Noah for Aldridge trade!

#ceperez

[ceperez]

Ha HA HAAA HAAAAH! Ridiculous that the Spurs would mess with this teams solid chemistry. Why trade when our last guy on the bench can still put great defense and offense on the Cavs?

Team chemistry? Aldridge was a non-factor against the Cavs.

[SpursBig3s]

Team chemistry? Aldridge was a non-factor against the Cavs.

so if LMA was a non-factor against the Cavs, you honestly think fucking Joakim Noah would have impacted that game in a positive manner?? :lmao

Gasol trying to play D on Love, or box out Thompson:lmao

[ceperez]

Now that Aldridge is an All-star, maybe the Bulls are interested in a Gasol/Noah for Aldridge/McCallum trade.

Here's a reminder of what Pau can do to James:

http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/102715_Pau.jpg

Here's Noah and Gasol both on James:

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/lebron-james-of-the-cleveland-cavaliers-puts-up-a-shot-against-joakim-picture-id458205510