Let's talk about: Making A Murderer

[Reck]

I've just watched the first two episodes of this documentary of how Steven Avery has been buttfucked sans vaselines by the inept county of Manitowoc.

I'm shocked at how imcomptent this police department is. Holy shit.

[Reck]

Episode 3..

How do you have all those video tape and not see how obviously coached the kid was? Damn this is upsetting.

[Thread]

What channel is this on?

[Reck]

What channel is this on?

It's on Netflix, Thready.

It's a circus, Thread. A sad, slow moving wrecking train.

They got the first ep for free on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34M2zdLc-2U

[lil'mo]

It's not really ineptness, it's laziness to a certain degree but mostly it's just having it out for the guy

[Spur|n|Austin]

Finished the series last night, I'm appauled at the lack of justice in Manitowoc County. It's nice to know this has brought even more attention to the injustice, and the collective power of people could help at least Brendan out.

[lil'mo]

:rolleyes

[Reck]

I still cant believe how this trial went on with all the clear mishandling of evidence or lack there of.

I'm not sure how searching warrants work but does it entitle them to look for whatever they're looking for for a whole week? Keep the owners of the property completely out of their homes in the mean time?

Or how about the fact police talked to a minor several times without an adult present? Even so far as coaching the retard boy on what to say?

That's fucked. There is plenty of reasonable doubts in this case for a non-conviction.

[widowmaker]

Question is when will this get an unbiased re-investigation by the FBI?

[lil'mo]

So y'all don't think he killed the photographer?

[Adam Lambert]

fuck tha police

[DMX7]

I still cant believe how this trial went on with all the clear mishandling of evidence or lack there of.

I'm not sure how searching warrants work but does it entitle them to look for whatever they're looking for for a whole week? Keep the owners of the property completely out of their homes in the mean time?

Or how about the fact police talked to a minor several times without an adult present? Even so far as coaching the retard boy on what to say?

That's fucked. There is plenty of reasonable doubts in this case for a non-conviction.

I agree, but the documentary was extremely biased. I watched 10 hours of a one sided story and still wasn't convinced he didn't do it. I realize that's not the standard for a not guilty conviction though. However, I can see how a jury might be overwhelmed by the evidence that made him look guilty and the disbelief that the police could be doing what was suggested.

[leemajors]

I agree, but the documentary was extremely biased. I watched 10 hours of a one sided story and still wasn't convinced he didn't do it. I realize that's not the standard for a not guilty conviction though. However, I can see how a jury might be overwhelmed by the evidence that made him look guilty and the disbelief that the police could be doing what was suggested.

you think there is any way he killed the photographer? wow.

[DMX7]

you think there is any way he killed the photographer? wow.

It's not just me. A jury of his peers found him actually guilty.

[Reck]

It's not just me. A jury of his peers found him actually guilty.

I'm thinking he was being sarcastic with that comment.

But still, even if he did it, there are still way too many inconsistency to say for sure he did.

They wanted this guy buried and they did. Even if it meant taking a real innocent victim in Brendan Dassey.

I mean, guy couldn't even tie his own shoes let alone be an accomplice.

[DMX7]

I'm thinking he was being sarcastic with that comment.



Hopefully, because the comment didn't make sense, and in this context it lacked wittiness which made me think it wasn't sarcastic.

[leemajors]

It's not just me. A jury of his peers found him actually guilty.

That entire arrest/planting of evidence/trial was a complete and utter joke and embarrassment. A jury of his peers predisposed to assume him guilty for no reason? Impartial trial? Swallow it whole.

[leemajors]

Hopefully, because the comment didn't make sense, and in this context it lacked wittiness which made me think it wasn't sarcastic.

Kinda pointless to respond with wittiness to drivel. He was convicted by his "peers" the first time too, with no evidence

[DMX7]

That entire arrest/planting of evidence/trial was a complete and utter joke and embarrassment. A jury of his peers predisposed to assume him guilty for no reason? Impartial trial? Swallow it whole.

Even this is incoherent. I doubt Reck understands what you really think either.

[leemajors]

Even this is incoherent. I doubt Reck understands what you really think either.

Sure. I don't give a fuck what Reck thinks. Trump has some good points, right?

[Spurminator]

"A jury of peers" made up of people from that area, if the rest of the series is any indication, is not a group of people I'd want deciding my fate. Or doing anything of consequence requiring an intellect above that of a fifth grader, for that matter.

[JudynTX]

I can't stop reading up on this story. I don't ever want to visit Wisconsin.

[DisAsTerBot]

the hood swap though? the sweat in the engine bay?

[mrsmaalox]

What a mess! I've watched 3 episodes so far and the only one I really feel bad for yet is the teenage nephew. My other take away is that people in Wisconsin are butt ugly.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Those cops railroaded him so bad it's hard to tell whether or not he actually did it. I don't trust him but I certainly don't trust the police's investigation. Tadych and Bobby look guilty as hell too.

The blood stains after the tampered evidence and the FBI going white knight anyway was troubling.

Cops officially excluded by court order from participating in the investigation leading it anyway; setting the kid up with the patsy lawyer who repeatedly allows investigators to interview him alone and disregarding the parent.

[boutons_deux]

Wisconsin.

aka, Kockistan run by Kockenstein monster (Walker). the corruption is even worse, and worsening, than most red, slave states.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

All of the sheriffs, judges, DA's and investigators talking in terms of good and evil, demonizing their suspect, and the like was deeply troubling. The god delusion is at the root of that nonsense. The Averys are a bunch of fuckups and retards sure but that doesn't make them anything other than that.

Shit like that is why I reject the Christian god. Time to move beyond good and evil.

[vander]

Started watching, I was thinking "there's no way they're going to get me to care about this low-life, and injustices happen all the time"

but by the end of the first episode I couldn't believe what I was seeing and I cared...

[SpursforSix]

I guess I gotta watch this so I can quit avoiding this thread

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Unlike a member of the public, the officer gets a “cooling off” period before he has to respond to any questions. Unlike a member of the public, the officer under investigation is privy to the names of his complainants and their testimony against him before he is ever interrogated. Unlike a member of the public, the officer under investigation is to be interrogated “at a reasonable hour,” with a union member present. Unlike a member of the public, the officer can only be questioned by one person during his interrogation. Unlike a member of the public, the officer can be interrogated only “for reasonable periods,” which “shall be timed to allow for such personal necessities and rest periods as are reasonably necessary.” Unlike a member of the public, the officer under investigation cannot be “threatened with disciplinary action” at any point during his interrogation. If he is threatened with punishment, whatever he says following the threat cannot be used against him.

What happens after the interrogation again varies from state to state. But under nearly every law enforcement bill of rights, the following additional privileges are granted to officers: Their departments cannot publicly acknowledge that the officer is under investigation; if the officer is cleared of wrongdoing or the charges are dropped, the department may not publicly acknowledge that the investigation ever took place, or reveal the nature of the complaint. The officer cannot be questioned or investigated by “non-government agents,” which means no civilian review boards. If the officer is suspended as a result of the investigation, he must continue to receive full pay and benefits until his case is resolved. In most states, the charging department must subsidize the accused officer’s legal defense.

A violation of any of the above rights can result in dismissal—not of the officer, but of the charges against him.

Compare to what they did to the Avery's.

http://www.cato.org/blog/police-misconduct-law-enforcement-officers-bill-rights

[cd021]

About halfway through episode 3.

I have a hard time believing someone who spent 18 years in prision would kill someone who he did buisness with ( the woman took pictures of his cars for auto trader) hide her car, behind a couple of boards and burn her body on his property. That just seems a bit too convienient for me.

Who knows, maybe my opion will change as i continue to watch but so far, i'm skeptical.

[cd021]

Compare to what they did to the Avery's.

http://www.cato.org/blog/police-misconduct-law-enforcement-officers-bill-rights

^ Read the article, thats pretty crazy. I found the part about "reasonable periods" to be ,particulary, interesting. People have been corerced into confessioning after being interrogated for hours on end by multiple investigators and threatened with long prision sentences and the death penalty if they don't confess to the crimes.

The "Cooling Off" period is also interesting. Take the Chicago coverup of the MacDonald shooting. All of the officers on scene backed up the cops assertion that he came at him with a knife. The PD later intimidated witnesses and deleted surveliance from a burger king, which captured the shooting. It allows police to get there stories straight, if there isn't video evidence then many of these cases go away.

The Walter Scott case would have been closed had it not been for the video of the cop shooting him in the back 8 times and planting a taser on his body.

[ashbeeigh]

Rewatching episode 8 (after being interupted by an uninterested significant other and 2 children) and there is so much doubt for me that he did this. He might have done it, but I'm with cd021 on why would he even consider killing someone after being in prison stuff. I also worry about the trauma associated with being in prison for 18 years. How was his mental health? Like was he even competent to stand trial? Because Manitowac (or Calumet) county should have examined that as well as all these other leads.

[Reck]

Also, a few cameras would have save him all this trouble.

How do you not have security cameras on such a big place? A good place camera shot with you on it would remove any sort of doubts.

I mean, it was a business after all. How did they keep instruders away if not for some deterrent?

Cameras are an important tool these days.

[ashbeeigh]

Also, a few cameras would have save him all this trouble.

How do you not have security cameras on such a big place? A good place camera shot with you on it would remove any sort of doubts.

I mean, it was a business after all. How did they keep instruders away if not for some deterrent?

Cameras are an important tool these days.

Do you know where Manitowoc is? Unless you have to be there for a reason there is no reason to be there. It's a small rural area where everyone knows everyone and where everyone is at. There's really no need for it. Not to mention it is hell on earth (actually all of Wisconsin except for maybe Madison are).

[cd021]

Also, a few cameras would have save him all this trouble.

How do you not have security cameras on such a big place? A good place camera shot with you on it would remove any sort of doubts.

I mean, it was a business after all. How did they keep instruders away if not for some deterrent?

Cameras are an important tool these days.


If i thought the police had a grudge against me and my family, i would invest in some. There is just so many places were evidence could be hidden (in the junk yard). He would have no idea what someone put in the back of one of those cars. Then again, i see Asheeighs point. I grew up in the country, it wasn't uncommon for people to leave their car doors unlocked.

[BD24]

After initially watching the documentary I thought Avery may have been setup.

I did some additional investigation on my own though and the documentary left out alot of key evidence. Was the trial an absolute joke and was there a ton of shady shit going on? Yes 1000 times. If you look at the additional evidence not included in the documentary though it becomes fairly apparent that Avery and his retard nephew most likely killed this lady.

[ColinB]

Would hang out with Strang and Buting.

[ballhog]

Yeah, the documentary is fairly one-sided. After reading up on the missing pieces not in the show, hard to conclude anything other than he was guilty. Think the point of the show ended up being how wrong-fully imprisoning something can lead them on a path he may not have taken otherwise. Definitely not the brightest bulbs. Sure didn't get the fairest of trials.

[Darius McCrary]

The blood in the car was the real nail in the coffin

I just can't understand the motive here. Makes no sense why he'd kill someone, esp in that manner.

[cd021]

The blood in the car was the real nail in the coffin

I just can't understand the motive here. Makes no sense why he'd kill someone, esp in that manner.

I'm about halfway into episode 6 but that was one of the things that stuck out to me. He had a cut on his finger but was supposedly wearing gloves. There were no finger prints inside of the car but there was his blood? That makes zero sense.

The cousin of the victim didn't seem believable ,to me, for some reason. She just happened to find her cousins car after searching for half an hour in a Lott of hundreds of vehicles?

[stxspurs]

After initially watching the documentary I thought Avery may have been setup.

I did some additional investigation on my own though and the documentary left out alot of key evidence. Was the trial an absolute joke and was there a ton of shady shit going on? Yes 1000 times. If you look at the additional evidence not included in the documentary though it becomes fairly apparent that Avery and his retard nephew most likely killed this lady.

its impossible to stab someone on a bed like they argued without having any drop of blood in the house or any DNA of the girl. if they shot her in the garage like they also claimed there would be blood....again NO DNA.
he may have done it but there is no way you can convict him without some sort of reasonable doubt.

[BD24]

its impossible to stab someone on a bed like they argued without having any drop of blood in the house or any DNA of the girl. if they shot her in the garage like they also claimed there would be blood....again NO DNA.
he may have done it but there is no way you can convict him without some sort of reasonable doubt.
I didn't say it was a fair trial, or that it happened as they said. But if you look at all of the evidence presented it becomes fairly obvious he is more than likely guilty.

[Reck]

I didn't say it was a fair trial, or that it happened as they said. But if you look at all of the evidence presented it becomes fairly obvious he is more than likely guilty.

So?

You cant convict someone because they look guilty. You have to prove it and they didn't do that beyond a reasonable doubt. If anything, there is nothing but doubts in this case.

Guy deserves a re-trial or be set free.

[leemajors]

http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/21/10806064/making-a-murderer-creators-twitter-questions

[Reck]

http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/21/10806064/making-a-murderer-creators-twitter-questions

More from these Q&As..

http://i65.tinypic.com/103siug.jpg

[Reck]

Wisconsin sure did a lot to try to bury this documentary for someone who did "the right thing."

Tell me how this guy wasn't fucked, again? :lmao

It's really getting to a point where this guy should just be set free, cold turkey.

[BD24]

Wisconsin sure did a lot to try to bury this documentary for someone who did "the right thing."

Tell me how this guy wasn't fucked, again? :lmao

It's really getting to a point where this guy should just be set free, cold turkey.
He was definitely fucked, I do agree with that. That trial was not a fair trial by any means, it should of been declared a mistrial.

With that said though, its tough to imagine he didn't do it after looking at the additional evidence. I wanted him to be innocent, I really did. I was convinced he was after originally watching the documentary. After seeing the glaring evidence left out by the documentary though it really makes it difficult to believe that he didnt do it.

[unleashbaynes]

I think one of those weirdo cousins of his did it. Bobby Dassey or the other inbred cretin. Then the Manitowoc pigs wanted it to be him so badly that they planted the key and blood and forced the retarded kid into a confession. Please tell me how the fuck the key has his DNA on it but not hers. That makes zero sense.

[BD24]

I think one of those weirdo cousins of his did it. Bobby Dassey or the other inbred cretin. Then the Manitowoc pigs wanted it to be him so badly that they planted the key and blood and forced the retarded kid into a confession. Please tell me how the fuck the key has his DNA on it but not hers. That makes zero sense.
Although Brendan Dassey is a legit retard, he did tell the police things that matched up without being coaxed in the part of the transcript that was left out of the documentary. You can read the whole transcript online. The key was obviously planted by police, doesn't mean he didn't do it though.

One of the most damning pieces of evidence is that when he called to get the pictures he specifically requested her. She didn't want to go out there because Avery made her uncomfortable. He also placed 3 calls to her cellphone, dialing from *67 twice that day. There was also a fingerprint under the hood of the car that was never mentioned in the documentary.

Again if you look at all of the evidence its pretty damning against him.

[unleashbaynes]

If she was uncomfortable being alone with him then she wouldn't have gone out there alone. That makes no sense either and is something the prosecution threw out there to try and make him look guilty as well imo. Everything about this case was rotten.

[BD24]

If she was uncomfortable being alone with him then she wouldn't have gone out there alone. That makes no sense either and is something the prosecution threw out there to try and make him look guilty as well imo. Everything about this case was rotten.
I know you want to believe he is innocent, I was in the same boat. I get it. All I ask is read over the additional evidence before coming to a decision.

People do do things they are uncomfortable with everyday for work. You do what your boss says.

[SpursforSix]

Binge watched this yesterday without knowing much about it. Pretty fascinating documentary. I was hoping that he'd be found innocent as well after only seeing the one sided documentary. I haven't seen the rebuttal as to why they couldn't find any of Teresa's blood anywhere in the trailer or garage. Seems like Avery couldn't have cleaned all of it up that effectively. But after seeing more of the evidence, it does seem like they did it.

[Darth_Pelican]

Brendan Dassey's conviction overturned. He will be set free.

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2016/08/making_a_murderer_nephew_brend.html#incart_river_m obile_home

[Reck]

Brendan Dassey's conviction overturned. He will be set free.

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2016/08/making_a_murderer_nephew_brend.html#incart_river_m obile_home

Interesting.

The article doesn't say why it's been overturned and how this impacts Steve's own chance at freedom.

[benefactor]

Kiddo was released today

[Darth_Pelican]

v50gyOqlxxs

[Reck]

v50gyOqlxxs

I'm looking forward to it. Hope it is as good and compelling as the first.

[Reck]

Tonight.

I'm curious if there are really any new developments or if this is just milking the story for all it's worth.

[SpursforSix]

Tonight.

I'm curious if there are really any new developments or if this is just milking the story for all it's worth.

Well...I was looking forward to getting home and watching last night.

[Chucho]

I'm literally on fumes and need to restock my true crime doc gas tank. I'm fucking stoked. The last time it came out, it was literally the only time I've ever binged on a show and watched the whole season through the night. Only time I stayed up all night without cocaine.

[Reck]

First episode down.

Solid, firts episode that fully focuses on the excluded evidence that Netflix lefted out.

[BD24]

First episode down.

Solid, firts episode that fully focuses on the excluded evidence that Netflix lefted out.
Discrediting the evidence Netflix left out? Or just saying hey it exist? Interesting they went that route.

[SpursforSix]

Season 2 was good. Although I got bored when they would spend time on the personal lives of the Averys and Masseys.

[SpursforSix]

Looks like the defense is going to get new evidence admitted. I'm guessing there could be a third season at some point.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6751799/Making-Murderer-subject-Steven-Avery-allowed-present-new-evidence-case.html?mrn_rm=rta-fallback