How many Championships will Tony and Kawhi get after Tim and Manu retire?

[dabom]

Remember Tony also doesn't have much more time than those 2, but Kawhi is going to enter his PEAK in the next years.

[dabom]

I think 1. LMA, Tony, Green, Kawhi, Probably 20 mil in cap space.

[Mel_13]

None. Tim's playing until he's 50.

[dabom]

None. Tim's playing until he's 50.
\
I wish but jokes aside he gonna retire this year or next year 100% from my perspective.

[Nathan89]

\
I wish but jokes aside he gonna retire this year or next year 100% from my perspective.

That's everybody's perspective.

[dabom]

That's everybody's perspective.

Yeah I know.

[ElNono]

Zero IMO, and I love Kawhi. Losing two HoF of Tim and Manu caliber is tough.

I can see lots of regular season wins though.

[dabom]

Zero IMO, and I love Kawhi. Losing two HoF of Tim and Manu caliber is tough.

I can see lots of regular season wins though.

:lol

Kawhi will be winning MVPs in the near future. Manu will not be missed. But Duncan. We can always need him during the playoffs.

LMA and Kawhi can eat the production quite easily. Pop also moves the system towards Kawhi and LMA heavy. Easy transition.

[dabom]

SAGirl with the goods once again. :bobo

[dabom]

Boban KA Diaw Simmons. OMG. :wow

[SAGirl]

I have faith in Kawhi. Still just 24 years old. A strong MVP candidate and would be frontrunner for it if not for Curry.

I like to be optimistic here. When D.Rob retired Tim was MVP and transcendental. Kawhi has that potential in this perimeter based league. Spurs will find him teammates. They did with Tim. Who, and from where, who knows, but I believe PATFO will find guys to team up. Already they got Aldridge so its not like the team is bereft of talent outside Tim/Manu and you just have to replace their current contribution, not the legend that they were when they were younger.

It will ultimately come down to Kawhi too, is he embarking on his own HoF career. A lot of that will be cemented when Tim/Manu hang it up TBH, and Tony could make a stronger case than already he has helping other ships without the two.

I said 2, bc I'd like to believe the Spurs will continue to win with Kawhi entering his best years (health permitting) at least 2 chips. Maybe Tony is not there, or is there in some other capacity or what not, the Tony part is the one that is questionable to me, how long he will play, how well, the roles he will have to give up and adjust, etc, and well, how much longer are we talking about with him?

[ElNono]

:lol

Kawhi will be winning MVPs in the near future. Manu will not be missed. But Duncan. We can always need him during the playoffs.

LMA and Kawhi can eat the production quite easily. Pop also moves the system towards Kawhi and LMA heavy. Easy transition.

I wanna be wrong on this one, tbh... rooting for your version of events

[dabom]

I wanna be wrong on this one, tbh... rooting for your version of events

:toast

[SAGirl]

SAGirl (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=49524) with the goods once again. :bobo
:toast
I got you on this.
our future looks bright to me!

[ParadoxEN]

Before or after George Hill comes back?

[dabom]

Before or after George Hill comes back?

We gonna get him back. I hope.

[SAGirl]

I wanna be wrong on this one, tbh... rooting for your version of events
:flag:
... as long as we have Kawhi we wont be a lottery team.

Other guys will have to step up ElNono, but Pop has slowly been easing up the burden on Tim/Manu. Manu is a catalist for the bench, that is what we will miss the most (and his leadership of course). Timmy is still elite defending the rim (and his leadership too). You have to find guys in the future that will give you those two things, elite rim protection and passing/scoring in the bench.

Have you noticed how Pop is pushing Bobo and Patty this season??? Literally pushing these two.

Boban??? OMG Boban is a game changer at times. I am really high on him.

Then there is Slow-mo and Simmons, who admittedly are more questionable, but Pop is devoting a lot (and I do mean a lot) of time to them. I am really high on Slow-Mo. I might be disappointed and will have to eat dogshit here if he doesn't pan out like I hope, but he had that potential all through his youth (both the leadership and the unselfish passing... the aggressiveness and the 3 pt shot are a project I will admit). It's a huge adjustment at this level, but Pop hasn't given up that he can do this, therefore he's still there. Simmons is a terrific partner for Kawhi in transition, and is the perfect role player TBH, and also a nice passer. I am probably lower on his ceiling bc he is older, and he's come a long way in his ballhandling, but will still get into jams. If he was 22 like Slow-Mo... wow!, but he's not. He could still be a great roleplayer if he develops just a 3 point shot.

We are probably missing a quality guard in the future. That is where I am unsure. I don't think Simmons has a high ceiling to be much more than he currently is and Patty/Tony are undersized and Danny is limited (great at what he does when he's on, but limited nonetheless). We will need a more dynamic guard, maybe Simmons is it, but I am not convinced by him.

[ElNono]

I'm not that concerned personnel wise because with the cap going up we're going to have money to bring in talent if they want to play here. It's the loss of that steadiness, leadership, jolt of energy, competitive spirit that's difficult to find. There's a lot of uber talented guys in this league looking at their own numbers and personal accolades over building a winning culture, tbh... You just saw a couple on the Rockets last night...

[TheGreatYacht]

None. Tim's playing until he's 50.
Hmm. You must really want Tim to retire averaging 17ppg.

His stats are getting wrecked this year now that his role is to protect the rim. He doesn't care, but the casuals that didn't watch him in his prime will.

[SAGirl]

I'm not that concerned personnel wise because with the cap going up we're going to have money to bring in talent if they want to play here. It's the loss of that steadiness, leadership, jolt of energy, competitive spirit that's difficult to find. There's a lot of uber talented guys in this league looking at their own numbers and personal accolades over building a winning culture, tbh... You just saw a couple on the Rockets last night...

You know who is not like that right???? ....

SAGirl schtick.

[spursistan]

There is a common denominator for franchises who lost a Magic/Bird/Mj..there will be a drought of some sort that even the big market/storied franchises can't escape such a spell..San Antonio, will be due one of those..

the Spurs have defied the premature obituaries written on them before.But as well as they have been run, things will never stay the same on the wake of losing a Top 5 player of alltime and one other unique HOF talent..Too much intangibles and corporate knowledge subtracted in one single move..it is bound to destabilize some fabric in this team..

With Pop at the helm and Kawhi in peak time, we will certainly avoid abject mediocrity, but unless the West goes through a weak era similar to the 2008-2010, i find it hard to see us coming out of it without adding/grooming another top tier talent..

[bic50]

Who knows maybe boban still keeps improving or we find another gem in the trade, draft, dleague or Europe to keep contending.
Wishful thinking though.
But kawhi will be even better in his peak and aldridge while older will still be able to contribute a bunch.

[TheGreatYacht]

I think they got one or two in them. Houston's core is about to get traded, and Dwight is out this offseason. Memphis is getting old. Durant is headed to DC, and RW won't stay in Oklahoma. Clippers have Doc running things lol. Mavs will rebuild for a good five years.

Golden State is truly the only future obstacle and they might lose Barnes this offseason and also have aging vets in Bogut, Barbosa, Livingston, Iggy.

If LMA can age like Dirk, and we can get a rim protecting Center like a Noah or Pau... I like our chances.

As for Manu, Will Barton is our guy. Whatever he costs, get him.

[dabom]

I'm not that concerned personnel wise because with the cap going up we're going to have money to bring in talent if they want to play here. It's the loss of that steadiness, leadership, jolt of energy, competitive spirit that's difficult to find. There's a lot of uber talented guys in this league looking at their own numbers and personal accolades over building a winning culture, tbh... You just saw a couple on the Rockets last night...

One thing I can trust the FO in is finding players that are over themselves.

[dunkman]

Parker, Kawhi and LMA are between the best at their positions, the Spurs will win another 'ship if Parkers stays long enough for Pop and RC to complete the roster.

It's amazing how with a bottom first rounders the Spurs picked Hill, a role player, then traded him for a mid first rounder then picked Kawhi, a franchise player. Or how they picked a good center (Splitter) with another bottom first rounder. But the process took time.

[Richie]

The sensible answer is 0, but we'll make the playoffs and with another free agent or draft steal, who knows? An all-defensive big man to pair with Aldridge will be the main thing and you can find those guys in the mid-late first round (Hibbert, Ibaka, Jordan, Gasol, Gobert). If we're lucky we already have one in Milutinov

[Kool Bob Love]

Only hope would be that Parker and LMA stay, but if Kawhi is gonna run them out lottery bound with system player.

[bic50]

:rolleyes ^^

[benefactor]

I think a better question would be how long can the Spurs consecutive playoff streak go? This will be the 19th season. They should pass a quarter of a century pretty easily(longest streak of all time is 22 held by the Sixers). It's amazing to think that there are some people on this site who weren't even alive the last time the Spurs missed the playoffs.

[spursfaninla]

Hmm. I voted 1.

Having top 5 (or even best player in the league) does not guarantee a championship. Replacing what manu and tim are providing is not possible with our current roster.

Boban is great, and brings a lot, but not nearly what Tim does, or did.

We have talent to bring parts of what manu brings, but no one guy can do all of what he does: passing, key rebounds and steals, creating of the drive.

Manu and tim are 2 and 3 in PER on the team; don't see that going away, if not replaced, without some production dropoff.

[YGWHI]

How many ships will win Parker and Kawhi...? Zero. Kawhi's getting his first shot in the game when Pop sits Parker, they definitely aren't a duo on the court.

[100%duncan]

They'll need to find a 3rd option. I think 1 imho.

[OrEmuN]

Zero.
They are trading Parker once TD and Manu retire.

[Mel_13]

Zero.
They are trading Parker once TD and Manu retire.

Less chance of that happening than Duncan playing until he's 50.

[Russo21]

Possibly none together as he won't play long after Tim and Manu retire, he's been around forever and is 33. It'll be interesting to see who RC and Pop decide to build around LMA and Kawhi and see if they can win a 'chip together before Tony retires, hopefully so.

Then the real question should be 'can a team led by Leonard and LMA compete for a title?' Hopefully they find some nice pieces to surround those 2 into the future. Will there be another big 3 or will it just be LMA, Kawhi and complimentary pieces, who knows.

[Old School 44]

0. I don't think Parker's staying past 36 years old. He's 33 now and will be 34 by the end of the season. Duncan or Ginobili (or both) will play one more year. So Tony would be 35, when both are gone. Leaving possibly one year to win a Championship without them, assuming Parker retires at 36.

[SAGirl]

0. I don't think Parker's staying past 36 years old. He's 33 now and will be 34 by the end of the season. Duncan or Ginobili (or both) will play one more year. So Tony would be 35, when both are gone. Leaving possibly one year to win a Championship without them, assuming Parker retires at 36.

That was really my issue. I think Kawhi is a generational talent the way he's going at just 24 and I do hope b4 his career is over he can get 2 more. I think with good teammates the team can win again, and I have hope that PATFO will find him guys bc they know what they are doing and the kind of guys they need. Already we got him Aldridge.

Tony is the real ? in this equation. He wants to play for a long time, but he's just not built for that. His kind of game is not meant to age well, he needs to switch his role but will revert to old habits.

[Old School 44]

That was really my issue. I think Kawhi is a generational talent the way he's going at just 24 and I do hope b4 his career is over he can get 2 more. I think with good teammates the team can win again, and I have hope that PATFO will find him guys bc they know what they are doing and the kind of guys they need. Already we got him Aldridge.

Tony is the real ? in this equation. He wants to play for a long time, but he's just not built for that. His kind of game is not meant to age well, he needs to switch his role but will revert to old habits.

100% agree. Not many point guards, especially with Tony's skillset last past 35/36. He just won't be able to keep up with the speedy youngsters coming into the game. The thing that could help him stay longer is the Spurs system, i.e., team defense, playing with elite defenders like Kawhi and Danny.

[Tully365]

I have a lot of faith in R.C. Buford... The Spurs have consistently found gems to put around Duncan when they didn't have a ton of money to throw around... They found Parker, Manu, G Hill, and Kawhi with later draft picks and lured Aldridge & West as FAs. I think smart players will be drawn to a mature, drama-free environment with calm personalities like Kawhi & LaMarcus... First up might be Nick Batum, who has close personal connections to Parker, Boris, Party, and Aldridge.

[Kidd K]

Honestly I think it will be 0.

We're not losing just Duncan (massive loss, way more than many here give it credit), but do not forget Gregg Popovich will be gone too. For all the hate he gets, he's a big reason we don't have Gilbert Arenas type players on the team chucking 25 shot a game and turning the locker room and practices into a playground rather than a workplace.

Kawhi Leonard may win a title years from now and possibly on another team, but it likely won't be with SA unless we fluke some amazing draft picks again. Losing Duncan and Popovich will be a massive blow. Yes, it may not be felt completely the following year, but the ship will steadily slow down and lose it's direction imo.

Enjoy this great Spurs teams while we still have it rather than take it for granted and assume it will always be great.

[ElNono]

Honestly I think it will be 0.

We're not losing just Duncan (massive loss, way more than many here give it credit), but do not forget Gregg Popovich will be gone too. For all the hate he gets, he's a big reason we don't have Gilbert Arenas type players on the team chucking 25 shot a game and turning the locker room and practices into a playground rather than a workplace.

Kawhi Leonard may win a title years from now and possibly on another team, but it likely won't be with SA unless we fluke some amazing draft picks again. Losing Duncan and Popovich will be a massive blow. Yes, it may not be felt completely the following year, but the ship will steadily slow down and lose it's direction imo.

Enjoy this great Spurs teams while we still have it rather than take it for granted and assume it will always be great.

Pop said he's staying for the duration of LMA's contract (health permitting I assume)

[kaji157]

I was between 0 and 1.

Clearly of the 3 Tony is the less competitive. So that will be important. LA and Green seem to be on the same mold as TP and i dont see Kawhi at Tim or Manu´s level of competitiveness. And i am talking about the mental factor here.

Secondly, i think both Manu and Tim where 2 of the most inteligent basketball players of either generation, that would be lacking in the post them era.

I still trust Pop´s IQ and Kawhi and Aldridge potential development as a one two punch along with Tony staying a relatively reliable 3rd option, Danny a very competent 4th player and a very strong group in general, so i´ll give them one.

[dabom]

I was between 0 and 1.

Clearly of the 3 Tony is the less competitive. So that will be important. LA and Green seem to be on the same mold as TP and i dont see Kawhi at Tim or Manu´s level of competitiveness. And i am talking about the mental factor here.

Secondly, i think both Manu and Tim where 2 of the most inteligent basketball players of either generation, that would be lacking in the post them era.

I still trust Pop´s IQ and Kawhi and Aldridge potential development as a one two punch along with Tony staying a relatively reliable 3rd option, Danny a very competent 4th player and a very strong group in general, so i´ll give them one.

If you could pick 2 top players in mental toughness its Duncan and Kawhi hands down. They are the most consistent forces in the Spurs roster since Kawhi came on board. They might have their occasional off games but for the most part, they are forces you can count on day in day out.

[kaji157]

If you could pick 2 top players in mental toughness its Duncan and Kawhi hands down. They are the most consistent forces in the Spurs roster since Kawhi came on board. They might have their occasional off games but for the most part, they are forces you can count on day in day out.

Maybe i wasnt clear, I DONT SEE KAWHI AT NETHER TIM OR MANUS LEVEL OF MENTAL TOUGHTNESS.

[dabom]

Maybe i wasnt clear, I DONT SEE KAWHI AT NETHER TIM OR MANUS LEVEL OF MENTAL TOUGHTNESS.

Then you are a dumbass. Kawhi has one of the best mental toughness in the game. Do you see his fucking game? Dude isn't even fazed by shit. Dude is the epitome of mental toughness.

[Mr Bones]

:lol Reading comprehension

[SAGirl]

Well its all fine and dandy for some long time fans who have seen battle, after battle, season after season with Tim, Manu and Tony and a cast of characters who hit big shots in playoffs, to doubt what a team without them will accomplish.

Perhaps bc I am a new era fan, I can't be that pessimistic about the team's future. It will be a test for the younger generation, but they have the opportunity to create their own legend and I think Kawhi at least is a quiet beast who will want to stomp anyone in front of him. It's a matter of finding him guys. He will have to rise, so will Aldridge.

We are probably going to hit a rough year when Tim/Manu do retire bc whoever steps up in their stead is not going to be up to par, and the team will have to adjust, but the transition is looking less traumatic than it did 2 or 3 years ago.

[kaji157]

Then you are a dumbass. Kawhi has one of the best mental toughness in the game. Do you see his fucking game? Dude isn't even fazed by shit. Dude is the epitome of mental toughness.

Maybe i am, but i am sorry if i doubt about a kid that had 1 great playoff series, over two players that have been so consistent and amazing in championship and elimination games.
Kawhi, for me, is not near that level yet.
At least he wasnt last year.

[Fireball]

you guys still not realize how difficult it is to win a championship ...

[exstatic]

There is a common denominator for franchises who lost a Magic/Bird/Mj..there will be a drought of some sort that even the big market/storied franchises can't escape such a spell..San Antonio, will be due one of those..

the Spurs have defied the premature obituaries written on them before.But as well as they have been run, things will never stay the same on the wake of losing a Top 5 player of alltime and one other unique HOF talent..Too much intangibles and corporate knowledge subtracted in one single move..it is bound to destabilize some fabric in this team..

With Pop at the helm and Kawhi in peak time, we will certainly avoid abject mediocrity, but unless the West goes through a weak era similar to the 2008-2010, i find it hard to see us coming out of it without adding/grooming another top tier talent..

Boston actually had a succession plan in place, had Bias not snorted his life away days after the draft, and Reggie Williams not died of that congenital heart defect. No one really really knows how it would have gone, save that it would have been better than what actually happened.

[Al Koholik]

Boston actually had a succession plan in place, had Bias not snorted his life away days after the draft, and Reggie Williams not died of that congenital heart defect. No one really really knows how it would have gone, save that it would have been better than what actually happened.

Oh my Celts. We was going places.

[YGWHI]

you guys still not realize how difficult it is to win a championship ...

Agree. There are many factors that play into winning a title, chemistry, injuries, player/coach performances, great opponents...

[kaji157]

I think some of you underestimate what Tim and Manu bring to the table.
Considering Tim is #4 in mins played on the team at 26.6 and Manu is #7 at 19.7, what they produce is well above most NBA players.

Here is a bit of numbers.

To start with lets go with the most valuable advanced metrics.

PER and WIN share.

Tim is at #47 overall in WS at 2.9 and Manu is #64 with 2.5, NO PLAYER in the league is higher than them in the list with equal or less minutes played than them, top 15 players in WS have at least played over 1000 minutes while tim is at 750 and Manu at 570.
In our team they are #4 and #5 in WS. Kawhi, Tony and LA are the top 3.
Translated into a WS per 48 minutes Tim is at #33, and Manu is at #10 considering players that play at least 15 mins a game.

PER is another stat that is used to measure the level of players and what they bring when they are on court, this season Tim is at 17.1 (5th in the Spurs) and Manu is at 20.0 (2nd on the team).

Now about raw production.

Tim Duncan, 4th on the team in Minutes played at 26.6 is:

5th in scoring at 8.7
3rd in rebounding at 7.8
3rd in assists at 3.0
6th in steals at 0.76
1st in blocks at 1.38

Ginobili #7 in minutes played at 19.7 is:

4th in scoring at 10.1
7thin rebounding at 2.9
2nd in assists at 3.5
2nd in steals at 1.0
13th on blocks at 0.07 (here Manu dropped a lot)

Hope some here use this summary to understand that even when they dont play much, you have two all stars right there waiting to explode in crunch time or when the young guys are overwhelmed by situations. These gus can put you over the top in PO situations and when they are gone the team might be still a contender but will find a lot of trouble getting to the conference finals and nba finals.

[timtonymanu]

We gonna get him back. I hope.

Ditty actually mentioned this before but Hill is very interested in returning to the Spurs after his contract is up. Ditty has legit sources too. He called Aldridge to Spurs way before free agency started.

[daledondale]

you guys still not realize how difficult it is to win a championship ...

[TMTTRIO]

I think with all the talent we have and Simmons bringing that energy to the team we can afford to lose Manu to retirement.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Tim might outlast Tony. I'd probably vote zero based on that.

[Kidd K]

Pop said he's staying for the duration of LMA's contract (health permitting I assume)

That's only another 3 years at max. Player option after 2 (Duncan very likely retiring within that timeframe).

So we're lookin at Pop pretty much for sure gone in 3 years, Manu and Duncan definitely gone before then (by end of next year most likely). Possibility of all 3 and Aldridge possibly gone by the end of next season.

When Duncan goes, we will not "continue without skipping a beat". By time they're even remotely recovering Pop will be gone and likely LMA too. There are tons of question marks in the near future so it's best to enjoy what we have now imo.

[spursistan]

Championships after Tim Duncan :lmao

Prediction: win or lose, 40 year-old TD will be our second best player in this season playoffs..

[spursistan]

Championships after Tim Duncan :lmao

Prediction: win or lose, 40 year-old TD will be our second best player in this season playoffs..
:lmao

[dabom]

Umm Manu playing like a turd? The scenario is without Manu too faggot. :lmao

[spursistan]

Yall just saw a glimpse..It is all on Timmy, and to lesser extent Manu...

Everything went south when that second knee gave out..

[TheGreatYacht]

Fuck....