Danny Green slump explanations if any

[Brazil]

Spurs have now played 36 games and Danny still cannot get his shit together... what's up with him is a mystery tbh

On all metrics you can find he is taking a massive hit compared to last year or even previous years... shooting is down, PER is down, rebounding, steals, blocks, assists, ppg, per 36, per 100 everything is south...

and one cannot find any explanation especially for his shooting

- LMA presence ? nope... he is shooting slightly better when LMA is off the court but this is not significant, his other metrics don't see a big change neither
- Age ? nope... dude is 28
- Shots are more contested ? nope... no major difference compared to last year, he is as open as last year, defenders are not closer
- Shots are taken from different spots ? nope.... corner, top of the key... % are similar than last year
- Shooting mechanics ? nope... his shots are not more flat, he is not rushing them either
- He is putting more ball on the floor ? that's true but this is not influencing his shot... his assisted % 3 points attempts is comparable to last year
- He is not in a ryhtm because less touches ? not really... his usage is 15% vs. 17%. He has less FGAs than last year tho but very comparable to his FGAs of the year before when he was already extremely valuable...
- As he is dribbling more, he has more TOVs ? nope... same TOV per game

And we even did not start on how those elements could influence his rebounding, blocks, assists...

- He became fat like Parker or LMA beginning of the season ? nope...

Only stuff I could see looking at numbers is he is playing the less minutes at SF spot of his career 18% only vs. 30-40% previous 3 years... but again I don't see any evident root causes there.

Other explanations:

- It is just a long cold Danny period as it happens for every shooter... this is one is just longer... maybe a silver lining there with remaining games with 3 pts shooting at +.500 to come back at a season .400... one can dream, I don't buy it

- Dude signed his contract and now don't give a shit anymore like many other nba players before him.... well it does not seem to fit with his personality, he clearly loves this team and his team mate but who knows

- Dude has personnal issues we don't know about ? possibly

- It is just a confidence issue ? what to do then ? sending him to Austin ? Let him play with second unit ? Ask Pop to massage him ? Give him a two weeks break to work by himself with Chip ?

[Old School 44]

Just guessing, but how about just signed the big contract, pressing, trying to hard to live up to the contract.

[Brazil]

Just guessing, but how about just signed the big contract, pressing, trying to hard to live up to the contract.

it can be added to the list yes... it's a possibility... the "I want to do too good syndrom" materializing by feeling pressure etc... in that case nevertheless, you would imagine, there would be stuff we could observe like rushing shots (it does not seem to be the case, he does not take more shots in early shot clock than before) or taking more shots off the drible vs. catch and shoot (but nope...)

Also, it's a good rationale for a short serie of games... but 36 ?

not saying this is not that tho just pointing out some counter arguments

[Chinook]

I expected him to struggle in Milwaukee against that length and without Parker. So far, I think it's partially a focus thing. His best recent games have been against the Clips and the Rockets, both of which were revenge games. I don't think it's a coincidence that he stepped up when it seems like he has an emotional investment in the victory. That bodes well for the stretch-run, but it's not good form. Something is sapping his focus currently, and that something needs to be resolved.

[Old School 44]

I remember one of the Finals games (I think game 3) against the Heat where everyone of Danny's shots off the dribble were going in and JVG remarked, I never knew he had that in his game. That's the Danny the Spurs want and are trying to develop. I just think sometimes Danny over thinks it and the Spurs are trying too hard to develop it. Just let Danny be the best "3 and D" player he can be, and if he feels comfortable taking someone off the dribble occasionally so be it.

[Brazil]

I remember one of the Finals games (I think game 3) against the Heat where everyone of Danny's shots off the dribble were going in and JVG remarked, I never knew he had that in his game. That's the Danny the Spurs want and are trying to develop. I just think sometimes Danny over thinks it and the Spurs are trying too hard to develop it. Just let Danny be the best "3 and D" player he can be, and if he feels comfortable taking someone off the dribble occasionally so be it.

thing is he is not taking more off the drible shots this year than previous years if I'm not mistaken... we have seen him putting more the ball on the floor and trying to drive, that's true but does not explain the 3 pts FG% decrease because he is does not take more contested or more off the drible shots...

[Brazil]

I expected him to struggle in Milwaukee against that length and without Parker. So far, I think it's partially a focus thing. His best recent games have been against the Clips and the Rockets, both of which were revenge games. I don't think it's a coincidence that he stepped up when it seems like he has an emotional investment in the victory. That bodes well for the stretch-run, but it's not good form. Something is sapping his focus currently, and that something needs to be resolved.

It is indeed obviously mental... that's too long of a bad stretch to be simply bad luck or stat average convergence

There is, I agree, something but what this something is, is a freaking mystery tbh... personnal issues ? some lagging injuries we did not hear of ?

[Old School 44]

thing is he is not taking more off the drible shots this year than previous years if I'm not mistaken... we have seen him putting more the ball on the floor and trying to drive, that's true but does not explain the 3 pts FG% decrease because he is does not take more contested or more off the drible shots...
There's no metric for "thinking about taking someone off the dribble". I think his issue is more in his head than anything else.

[Chinook]

It is indeed obviously mental... that's too long of a bad stretch to be simply bad luck or stat average convergence

There is, I agree, something but what this something is, is a freaking mystery tbh... personnal issues ? some lagging injuries we did not hear of ?

Could just be Borisitis. Danny will only play well when he has to. It's obviously something he needs to snap out of, but just like with Boris, it's not easy to see how to do so.

[tholdren]

Dangle green is a wet fart

[apalisoc_9]

Its funny how Danny shots better % from the three point line (maybe)out of perimeter passes. Ive always thoughts inside to outside passes be it by post or drives are better passes for shooters since it aligns their shooting form better than perimeter (side) passes.

Id have to look at the stats first but just from watching him hes much more comfortabe taking threes when the ball is passed sidewards. Thats weird considering gis form.

[dabom]

Trying to live up to his contract. Danny is very fragile between the ears.

[dabom]

The contract was a good price but relative to the team, he is making a ton.

[SPURt]

Maybe he has some injury he isn't telling the Spurs because the injury isn't painful enough or he developed muscle in an area over the summer that is hurting his shooting motion. It wouldn't take much in a shoulder to change his mechanics. Patty is just now starting to look like pre-surgery Patty. It has to be his shooting motion.

The only other problem I can think of is the yips:

http://images.wildammo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/27.gif

[Brazil]

Could just be Borisitis. Danny will only play well when he has to. It's obviously something he needs to snap out of, but just like with Boris, it's not easy to see how to do so.

Except Boris has that in him since forever... it amplifies or not over time but it is not sponteanously created. I have a hard time to believe Danny developped that non chalance suddenly

[Brazil]

Its funny how Danny shots better % from the three point line (maybe)out of perimeter passes. Ive always thoughts inside to outside passes be it by post or drives are better passes for shooters since it aligns their shooting form better than perimeter (side) passes.

Id have to look at the stats first but just from watching him hes much more comfortabe taking threes when the ball is passed sidewards. Thats weird considering gis form.

not sure you will find that metric

at the same time they are monitoring everything so maybe it exists something :lol I did not see anything like that yet tho

[Brazil]

There's no metric for "thinking about taking someone off the dribble". I think his issue is more in his head than anything else.

yes but if you over think your shot, it can be measured by release time, when shot is taken on the shot clock or % of catch and shoot... there is nothing that indicate that

What I mean he is not forcing his shots more than usual

[ceperez]

He's a slacker... people from his generation are generally slackers. Look at LMA who is near his age, also a slacker.

The reason Danny went off against the Rockets was because Beverly elbowed him in the mouth. Now it was really personal.

Danny will be fine come playoff time when it really counts. That's usually when he does wake up.

[coachmac87]

His mechanics have been off at times. I made a thread couple weeks ago about it. I think the chemistry issues early on hurt him and he was taking weird high jumping/body leaning 3's. I think he's going to be fine just needs to settle down and let the game come to him and get up as many shots in practice as he can

[DAF86]

I've seen him rush a lot of threes this season, tbh. It's almost as if he feels like he has to throw it up at the slightest of looks. He should relax and just take the really good looks.

[Darius Bieber]

One dimensional player tbh. Everyone knows Danny can shoot the three now, so they guard him well. If he can learn to penetrate effectively a la Simmons, he'll become way more deadly.

[Brazil]

One dimensional player tbh. Everyone knows Danny can shoot the three now, so they guard him well. If he can learn to penetrate effectively a la Simmons, he'll become way more deadly.

:rolleyes true because last year they did not know that

and :lol at they guard him well.. he is taking same % of attempts with a defender near by than last year so no there is nothing different defenses are doing to counter Danny or deny him the ball from last year

[Chinook]

Except Boris has that in him since forever... it amplifies or not over time but it is not sponteanously created. I have a hard time to believe Danny developped that non chalance suddenly

Yeah, but Danny has been paid and has a ring. Honestly, he could retire now and have an enviable career. I think the most important thing is that he seems to step up when his pride is hurt. In addition to the revenge games, he also played better after Pop got him on national television. It may really do the trick to bench Green and make him beat out Simmons for the starting job. With the way Jonathon is playing right now, it's not a formality that Danny gets his job back. That will either snap him out of this or allow the team to face not being able to use Green now rather than in the playoffs. They'll know if they have to make a trade or beg a buyout candidate.

[ElNono]

If other teams feel they need to keep a guy on him on the perimeter, his job is done... we've plenty of firepower in the starting lineup somewhere else.

[ceperez]

Yeah, but Danny has been paid and has a ring. Honestly, he could retire now and have an enviable career. I think the most important thing is that he seems to step up when his pride is hurt. In addition to the revenge games, he also played better after Pop got him on national television. It may really do the trick to bench Green and make him beat out Simmons for the starting job. With the way Jonathon is playing right now, it's not a formality that Danny gets his job back. That will either snap him out of this or allow the team to face not being able to use Green now rather than in the playoffs. They'll know if they have to make a trade or beg a buyout candidate.

I agree here, motivation doesn't come automatically for Danny. Very different from Kawhi who is a gym rat and is obsessive about basketball.

Boris Diaw tends to take it easy because he's extremely smart and that's what smart people have the tendency of doing.

I tend to give Green the benefit of the doubt because of his uncanny defensive capabilities. I also don't expect him to make a good play when he puts the ball on the floor. He isn't than nimble a player. Anyway, you are right, when his pride is hurt or when he knows that he needs to deliver or his team will sink, that's when he wakes up to the occasion. Otherwise, he tends to coast most of the time.

I'm a big fan of Simmons, but I don't think he should be taking Green's spot. Green is just a superior defender.

[Old School 44]

I hope Danny snaps out of it. I'd hate for him to end up like Malik Rose after he signed his big contract.

[ceperez]

What is indeed certain... unlike Leonard, we may have seen "Peak Danny Green". In other words, we've see the best he could ever be. Which actually is fine by me.

[Pauleta14]

- Dude signed his contract and now don't give a shit anymore like many other nba players before him.... well it does not seem to fit with his personality, he clearly loves this team and his team mate but who knows



That's the more realistic option imo.

But it doesn't need to be that excessive ("don't give a shit..."), I'm sure the guy is honest, tries his best... but he doesn't have the same "purpose" he used to have, that's all.

In a way he comes from nowhere and got his "double figure" (his quote) contract of his dreams. It's like he'll never want it as much as he wanted it.

It may just be temporary, but as you listed, nothing else changed from the previous year(s).

[Brazil]

If other teams feel they need to keep a guy on him on the perimeter, his job is done... we've plenty of firepower in the starting lineup somewhere else.

I disagree with that.. that's saying the team arrived and Danny just need to be a threat for Spurs to be successful and coast their way to a ring... won't work again top teams on the road

I do consider that Danny getting back at his old self or close to is key for the Spurs.

The "he will play big when it matters" is good for HOFers like Tim or super talented dudes like Bobo.. He cannot afford himself this luxury

[Brazil]

What is indeed certain... unlike Leonard, we may have seen "Peak Danny Green". In other words, we've see the best he could ever be. Which actually is fine by me.

which is fine if he can keep up with peak or staying close not going back at his cleveland days

[Brazil]

That's the more realistic option imo.

But it doesn't need to be that excessive ("don't give a shit..."), I'm sure the guy is honest, tries his best... but he doesn't have the same "purpose" he used to have, that's all.

In a way he comes from nowhere and got his "double figure" (his quote) contract of his dreams. It's like he'll never want it as much as he wanted it.

It may just be temporary, but as you listed, nothing else changed from the previous year(s).

or it could be a change we are not aware of... injury, family issue... or just confidence

this evolution is just very odd

[MackAttack003]

He's a slacker... people from his generation are generally slackers. Look at LMA who is near his age, also a slacker.

The reason Danny went off against the Rockets was because Beverly elbowed him in the mouth. Now it was really personal.

Danny will be fine come playoff time when it really counts. That's usually when he does wake up.

You dang kids! Get outta my yard!!

[ceperez]

I disagree with that.. that's saying the team arrived and Danny just need to be a threat for Spurs to be successful and coast their way to a ring... won't work again top teams on the road

I do consider that Danny getting back at his old self or close to is key for the Spurs.

The "he will play big when it matters" is good for HOFers like Tim or super talented dudes like Bobo.. He cannot afford himself this luxury

The Spurs beat the Thunder by Bonner just being a threat. Green's contributions in defense compensates for his lack of points in offense.

The treat by itself is good enough!

Let's put it this way, would you rather have Leonard being doubled team in the perimeter? Green by virtue of being a threat gives Leonard a lot of space to work with.

[Texas_Ranger]

Some people think he got a paycut, but I still think he's overpaid, especially right now. Even if he was playing like last year I wouldn't give him 10M. He plays a shooting guard that can't dribble the ball and make a layup. It's pathetic that he didn't learn it in his 7 years of being professional. Yea, it's great that you are working on your shot during the offseason Danny, but c'mon learn something else. Also people here think his defense is amazing... sorry to say it, but it's really not. He's better than most of the guys on his position but it's nowhere near someone like Kawhi. And after all this bitching I still like him cause he fits the system, but he should start playing much better, cause without him making wide open shots this team is fucked.

He should also hope Simmons won't become a good 3pt shooter, cause if so, he's getting traded next season.

[ceperez]

Some people think he got a paycut, but I still think he's overpaid, especially right now. Even if he was playing like last year I wouldn't give him 10M. He plays a shooting guard that can't dribble the ball and make a layup. It's pathetic that he didn't learn it in his 7 years of being professional. Yea, it's great that you are working on your shot during the offseason Danny, but c'mon learn something else. Also people here think his defense is amazing... sorry to say it, but it's really not. He's better than most of the guys on his position but it's nowhere near someone like Kawhi. And after all this bitching I still like him cause he fits the system, but he should start playing much better, cause without him making wide open shots this team is fucked.

He should also hope Simmons won't become a good 3pt shooter, cause if so, he's getting traded next season.

Maybe you forgot how he single handedly prevented Lebron from scoring in a fast break play in the finals. Nobody does that!

He can't dribble, he can't shoot the midrange jumper. He can barely make a layup. But he's an elite defender and he's one of the few Spurs that can single handedly get the Spurs back in the game.

[Brazil]

The Spurs beat the Thunder by Bonner just being a threat. Green's contributions in defense compensates for his lack of points in offense.

which is not true as his NetRtg is negative for one

for two his contribution on defense is also taking a bit of a hit... nothing comparable to the offense of course but still


The treat by itself is good enough!

say who ? I hope you do realize Spurs record is great but schedule is helping and this team will have to go through Warriors with Cury right ?


Let's put it this way, would you rather have Leonard being doubled team in the perimeter? Green by virtue of being a threat gives Leonard a lot of space to work with.

Let's put it that way, I'd rather have a threat capable to convert his FG above 40% if not asking much... if he keeps up like this he is gonna be a threat to Kobe's FG of 0.34

[DJR210]

I question his work ethic. I've never read anything about how hard he works in the gym, and dude hasn't added anything to his game in 4 years. Add in a huge payday and the recipe is there for a drop off in production.

[SAGirl]

I attribute all of these to Pop's possible design to make adjustments to his game for an increased role that didn't pan out.

Hear me out.

He started the season with that block by Adams on a forced up 3, when he really should have passed up that shot. Terrible decision making by Danny in a crucial part of that game. I think that worked him up mentally... I suspect early on there was consideration to bumping Danny out to close out games, basically phasing Manu out and preparing this team for life after Manu. Danny apparently was meant to have a larger role. We saw too many games of Danny attempting to do too much with the ball and Pop just letting it go without pulling him aside. I assume it was part of the design to let him work through those mistakes to the extent it was possible.

Sadly for Danny, he failed. He really did not rise to the occasion in an increased role. Manu had to continue to bail out the team (specially early) and all of that sapped Danny's confidence. His mental focus during the game not being what it was he hesitated on shots he should have taken as he struggled and tried to adjust his decision making to drive or pass as necessary. He never quite mastered it. He's a shooter and shooters have to be confident, not hesitate. I think it was all not a function of LMA, so much as it was a function of him trying to add other things to his game, trying to evolve, and getting a larger role and really falling on his ass, coming up short. His lack of confidence in his game affected his shot, since his mind was on other things.

I think at some point after a few games in, he decided to hesitate less and shoot more. Instead of driving he's instead side-stepping or using pumpfakes to stay with his shots. He's shot a bit better, but not sufficiently well, for a sufficiently long period of games to make up for his terrible/terrible start.

Eventually though, shooters have to keep shooting and he's gone back to what he does well. He's made more shots and generally not been as cringeworthy as he was to start, but its too late to remedy his stats, and he's probably primed for a bad statistical year.

[ceperez]

I question his work ethic. I've never read anything about how hard he works in the gym, and dude hasn't added anything to his game in 4 years. Add in a huge payday and the recipe is there for a drop off in production.

But he's a nice guy. Good locker room guy, rarely complains, supports his teammates (he was one of 2 Spurs that supported the SL team).

Here's the deal, Green is guaranteed playing time by virtue of his starting role. He is fifth in playing time of 25 minutes per game. Spurs have been blowing out teams at +14 differential. He is obviously coasting, but if anybody is coasting, you can focus on the Spurs max player.... LMA.

[Mr. Body]

The fat and sassy, paid and lazy theories here just prove what a bunch of shithead geniuses we have on this board. It doesn't match his personality or the way he's playing. He clearly wants these shots to fall and is bothered and mystified by the problem. He's most likely pressing. Fortunately there are fifty more games to work it out, although I think it's just one of those statistical off years. If he gets it on, great, but this isn't the 2013 Finals where he has to carry the offense with Neal.

[SAGirl]

Could just be Borisitis. Danny will only play well when he has to. It's obviously something he needs to snap out of, but just like with Boris, it's not easy to see how to do so.
Like that term Chinook!
didn't know you to have humor.
:bobo

I find myself struck by Borisitis with some frequency myself. lol

[SAGirl]

Maybe he has some injury he isn't telling the Spurs because the injury isn't painful enough or he developed muscle in an area over the summer that is hurting his shooting motion. It wouldn't take much in a shoulder to change his mechanics. Patty is just now starting to look like pre-surgery Patty. It has to be his shooting motion.

The only other problem I can think of is the yips:

http://images.wildammo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/27.gif

He will come out at the end of the season with a Matt Bonner statement:
"I did not want to make a big issue out of it but I got an elbow injury bc of my new cellphone."

:lmao

[ceperez]

I attribute all of these to Pop's possible design to make adjustments to his game for an increased role that didn't pan out.

Hear me out.

He started the season with that block by Adams on a forced up 3, when he really should have passed up that shot. Terrible decision making by Danny in a crucial part of that game. I think that worked him up mentally... I suspect early on there was consideration to bumping Danny out to close out games, basically phasing Manu out and preparing this team for life after Manu. Danny apparently was meant to have a larger role. We saw too many games of Danny attempting to do too much with the ball and Pop just letting it go without pulling him aside. I assume it was part of the design to let him work through those mistakes to the extent it was possible.

Sadly for Danny, he failed. He really did not rise to the occasion in an increased role. Manu had to continue to bail out the team (specially early) and all of that sapped Danny's confidence. His mental focus during the game not being what it was he hesitated on shots he should have taken as he struggled and tried to adjust his decision making to drive or pass as necessary. He never quite mastered it. He's a shooter and shooters have to be confident, not hesitate. I think it was all not a function of LMA, so much as it was a function of him trying to add other things to his game, trying to evolve, and getting a larger role and really falling on his ass, coming up short. His lack of confidence in his game affected his shot, since his mind was on other things.

I think at some point after a few games in, he decided to hesitate less and shoot more. Instead of driving he's instead side-stepping or using pumpfakes to stay with his shots. He's shot a bit better, but not sufficiently well, for a sufficiently long period of games to make up for his terrible/terrible start.

Eventually though, shooters have to keep shooting and he's gone back to what he does well. He's made more shots and generally not been as cringeworthy as he was to start, but its too late to remedy his stats, and he's probably primed for a bad statistical year.

I agree with your post. He was tasked to expand his game, it did not happen. He just does not have the natural quickness and mobility of a guy like Ginobili. He also just doesn't have the ball handling skill to be comfortable taking it to the hoop. Why am I not surprised? He never had it and it isn't going to be developed. Look, the last game he had a wide open mid range shot, he tried to bank it in but it missed the rim entirely!! Missed the ring by maybe 3 feet!

It is kind of like asking Bruce Bowen to expand his offensive game. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! Be content that he's an elite defender and an elite 3 point shooter. I have zero expectations that he can evolve out of these two roles.

I don't have the same dismal outlook for Simmons and Anderson. There is still hope!

[SAGirl]

Yeah, but Danny has been paid and has a ring. Honestly, he could retire now and have an enviable career. I think the most important thing is that he seems to step up when his pride is hurt. In addition to the revenge games, he also played better after Pop got him on national television. It may really do the trick to bench Green and make him beat out Simmons for the starting job. With the way Jonathon is playing right now, it's not a formality that Danny gets his job back. That will either snap him out of this or allow the team to face not being able to use Green now rather than in the playoffs. They'll know if they have to make a trade or beg a buyout candidate.

You make a good point if the issue is in his mind in the sense that he feels entitled. He should not. Not only Simmons this season, we might be getting Bertans next season who is a deadly shooter who is 6'10'' (another reason Anderson needs to snap out of his own personal passive/aggressive funk, but that is another thread). The point is yea, he could feel entitled bc he "arrived" too, and not feel as hungry as he felt the seasons prior.

Problem being, he's not so special that he can back off like that. As Simmons has proven, there are plenty of really, really hungry guys about 6'6'' in the d'league where he himself started out from. If he is not engaged mentally, focused and with a killer/assassin mentality it is not beyond the realm of possibility for him to aslo be phased out in favor of more hungry dudes.
I bet he still has a trade value all things considered. Not that the Spurs roll like that, but if he's not shooting, he really isn't adding that much when other guys can defend and bring other things. He might be going the Matty Bon Bon. For a strict 3 point specialist 30-33% is not good enough. Boris can get away with that, Simmons, even Anderson might shoot that from 3 and still get playtime as his thing is not strictly the 3, not Danny. He's got to keep shooting.

[GSH]

He's a slacker... people from his generation are generally slackers. Look at LMA who is near his age, also a slacker.

The reason Danny went off against the Rockets was because Beverly elbowed him in the mouth. Now it was really personal.

Danny will be fine come playoff time when it really counts. That's usually when he does wake up.


Starting early, trying to cement that "Consistently Worst Takes of the Year" award? Dude... nobody ever won it in January. Slow down, pace yourself.

Danny is starting to take his 3P stroke to the same place Tim took his FT stroke for a while. Watch him. He's started kicking one knee inward, pointing his toes toward each other, etc. Yeah, I think "yips" is a pretty good description. It's one of those conditions that feeds itself in a loop, too.

I still say they need to keep him home a few games, and lock him in the gym with Chip. I knew a shooting coach / sports psychologist who would have guys shoot with their eyes closed. Line it up, close the eyes, and let it rip. They would start to let their natural stroke take over, because there was no pressure about makes-misses, because their eyes were closed. Once their stroke started flowing, shots started dropping. I don't know what Chip's personal magic is, but Danny needs some one-on-one time with him, even though its the middle of the season.

[SAGirl]

It is kind of like asking Bruce Bowen to expand his offensive game. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! Be content that he's an elite defender and an elite 3 point shooter. I have zero expectations that he can evolve out of these two roles.

I don't have the same dismal outlook for Simmons and Anderson. There is still hope!

I think its probably easier to ask those guys to shoot the 3, since they can already do so many other things, than it is for a guy like Danny to change his whole game to a Marco Belinelli type. Neither Simms nor Anderson may ever be the deadly shooter Danny is, but they can be good enough and its going to be easier for them to add the shot to have a more balanced game, even if it takes some time to be confident with it (an Anderson issue, more than J.simms, who is playing with confidence).

[ceperez]

Starting early, trying to cement that "Consistently Worst Takes of the Year" award? Dude... nobody ever won it in January. Slow down, pace yourself.

Danny is starting to take his 3P stroke to the same place Tim took his FT stroke for a while. Watch him. He's started kicking one knee inward, pointing his toes toward each other, etc. Yeah, I think "yips" is a pretty good description. It's one of those conditions that feeds itself in a loop, too.

I still say they need to keep him home a few games, and lock him in the gym with Chip. I knew a shooting coach / sports psychologist who would have guys shoot with their eyes closed. Line it up, close the eyes, and let it rip. They would start to let their natural stroke take over, because there was no pressure about makes-misses, because their eyes were closed. Once their stroke started flowing, shots started dropping. I don't know what Chip's personal magic is, but Danny needs some one-on-one time with him, even though its the middle of the season.

I disagree, it isn't the yips or something with his stroke.

When you got 4 other players on your team that can light it up, then you take a back seat and don't take as much responsibility. Further, if you are asked to expand your game, you focus on the weaker parts of your game.

Now, with a Beverly elbow in your face and down early by double digits. That's something you can be motivated on.

BTW, stop embarrassing yourself by shitting on my takes. It just makes you look very bad.

[ceperez]

I think its probably easier to ask those guys to shoot the 3, since they can already do so many other things, than it is for a guy like Danny to change his whole game to a Marco Belinelli type. Neither Simms nor Anderson may ever be the deadly shooter Danny is, but they can be good enough and its going to be easier for them to add the shot to have a more balanced game, even if it takes some time to be confident with it (an Anderson issue, more than J.simms, who is playing with confidence).

I will have to disagree with the bolded statement. Was Green a lock down shooter when in college? Green played 4 years, his first 3 years he was hitting below 37% only final year he was at 41%. Anderson played 2 years, first year was a pathetic 21% but his last year he was at 48%. Simmons was 38% in the one year he played in the NCAA. Leonard was 19% first year and 27% final year.

So if anybody couldn't shoot, it was Leonard. Now he's at 50%. So you can't tell me that Simmons or Anderson can't get to that level under Chip Engeland?

[SAGirl]

I will have to disagree with the bolded statement. Was Green a lock down shooter when in college? Green played 4 years, his first 3 years he was hitting below 37% only final year he was at 41%. Anderson played 2 years, first year was a pathetic 21% but his last year he was at 48%. Simmons was 38% in the one year he played in the NCAA. Leonard was 19% first year and 27% final year.

So if anybody couldn't shoot, it was Leonard. Now he's at 50%. So you can't tell me that Simmons or Anderson can't get to that level under Chip Engeland?
Yes, lets hope. For sure we can say at least they started shooting later in their careers than the young shooters who are coming out of college, who got their shot earlier.

I read an interview of Chip... maybe I will google it and try to find it if it becomes a controversy... when he said that he can teach anyone to shoot and improve their shot at any age. It is not restricted to the really young guys. If they have the willingness to put in a lot of work and repetitions into their new shot, and are willing to struggle for some time, since it takes a lot of work to let go of old shooting motions and get used to a new stroke, but anyone at any age can go through that. Its not limited to the younger guys. Obviously guys who only needed a minor adjustment it is easier for and according to him, Leonard had only minor adjustments to make.

Outside of the scope of the interview .. guys like Anderson needed a complete overhaul of their shot, not a simple fix and they will struggle for a longer period, but it is possible.

So yes, hoping for the two of them.

[ceperez]

Yes, lets hope. For sure we can say at least they started shooting later in their careers than the young shooters who are coming out of college, who got their shot earlier.

I read an interview of Chip... maybe I will google it and try to find it if it becomes a controversy... when he said that he can teach anyone to shoot and improve their shot at any age. It is not restricted to the really young guys. If they have the willingness to put in a lot of work and repetitions into their new shot, and are willing to struggle for some time, since it takes a lot of work to let go of old shooting motions and get used to a new stroke, but anyone at any age can go through that. Its not limited to the younger guys. Obviously guys who only needed a minor adjustment it is easier for and according to him, Leonard had only minor adjustments to make.

Outside of the scope of the interview .. guys like Anderson needed a complete overhaul of their shot, not a simple fix and they will struggle for a longer period, but it is possible.

So yes, hoping for the two of them.

Well, I don't know if Anderson needs an overhaul. If he did, then they would have asked him to make the changes in his rookie season. That's what they asked Leonard to do.

Simmons is a different case since they just got him this year.

Even Marjanovic has learned to hit the 3 at a high clip (in practice).

However, there have been some complete failures, notably Jeff Ayres.

[SAGirl]

Well, I don't know if Anderson needs an overhaul. If he did, then they would have asked him to make the changes in his rookie season. That's what they asked Leonard to do.

Simmons is a different case since they just got him this year.

Even Marjanovic has learned to hit the 3 at a high clip (in practice).

However, there have been some complete failures, notably Jeff Ayres.
Kyle reworked his shot in his rookie season. He had a very, very deliberate release in college, cringe-inducing. He still has a slow shot, but its not nearly the same form or as slow as it was. I believe he's quickened it and its probably something that is still in progress. Like I said from Chips interview it seems some guys may take longer if they have more work and corrections to make.

Never knew what happened with Ayers, never had a nice looking shot (at least Kyle's and Simmon's form look nice) but Ayers in general wasn't very coordinated. Just the fact he had trouble rebounding and catching a ball told you the hand/eye coordination was bad. Neither Kyle nor Simms have the hand/eye coordination problem.

[Kidd K]

Just guessing, but how about just signed the big contract, pressing, trying to hard to live up to the contract.

I think this is what it is too. It's definitely not "he got his money now he doesn't give a shit". . .he's clearly not that kind of guy. And I absolutely don't think any players WANTS to be shit. It's embarrassing to them on every level. He's probably stuck in a downward spiral of knowing he's not doing well so he's thinking about it too much and it's making him tense and continue to fuck up.

I would imagine actually, that if he DIDN'T give a shit about having done poorly, he would bounce back quicker.

[Old School 44]

I think this is what it is too. It's definitely not "he got his money now he doesn't give a shit". . .he's clearly not that kind of guy. And I absolutely don't think any players WANTS to be shit. It's embarrassing to them on every level. He's probably stuck in a downward spiral of knowing he's not doing well so he's thinking about it too much and it's making him tense and continue to fuck up.

I would imagine actually, that if he DIDN'T give a shit about having done poorly, he would bounce back quicker.

I do think this is part of it, I also think it's because the Spurs are trying to make him someone he's not. Danny's a "3 and D" player. Danny's been playing ball for what 15+ years of his life and he still can't consistently take someone off the dribble. It's just not who he is. It sort of reminds me of the "let's make Gary Neal a point guard" experiment that failed miserably.

[GSH]

BTW, stop embarrassing yourself by shitting on my takes. It just makes you look very bad.

LOL... I've been bitched here by far better than you. I think I can live with it.

I don't care what you've said in the past. Bring something reasonable, and I'll give you credit for it. Saying that Danny doesn't give a shit about making 3's until he gets elbowed in the face? That's not gonna cut it.

[SAGirl]

I do think this is part of it, I also think it's because the Spurs are trying to make him someone he's not. Danny's a "3 and D" player. Danny's been playing ball for what 15+ years of his life and he still can't consistently take someone off the dribble. It's just not who he is. It sort of reminds me of the "let's make Gary Neal a point guard" experiment that failed miserably.

I have gotten the impression from Pop's comments on other players and in general that he's always trying to make guys into more than they are. He's made that comment referring to other players. To a degree I think it has made him a very successful championship coach. He's always pushing guys beyond what they think they can do. Some guys will grow, get better and push through (the best guys he's coached). But he coaches everyone the same and will push everyone. Some guys fail. He's said that referring to Leonard, how he's like a sponge, they keep loading him up and the guy keeps getting better, and he's remarked not everyone improves.

So I get the sense he tries to make everyone more than they are. Some guys just fall short and don't achieve the vision he has for them. Happened to Danny, but can't fault him for trying. He has one of the largest contracts in the team. Will be here for 4 years, growing with Leonard, and Manu is retiring very soon. Before the month of December when J.Simms grew exponentially he didn't even know if Simms could even play at this level since he looked so poor during preseason, and Anderson is not a SG for sure. So he had to push Danny. It didn't work.

[GSH]

Well, I don't know if Anderson needs an overhaul. If he did, then they would have asked him to make the changes in his rookie season.


Kyle reworked his shot in his rookie season. He had a very, very deliberate release in college, cringe-inducing. He still has a slow shot, but its not nearly the same form or as slow as it was.


For the record, ceperez, SAGirl clearly follows college ball. She's proven it on too many occasions. You clearly don't. If she says he re-worked his release in his rookie season, I'd listen.

But that's just me shitting on your takes, and making myself look bad.

[SouthernFried]

Well, reworked or not...I love Kyle's shot now. His release reminds of Dirk's. It's beautiful. I think he could be a great 3 point shooter.

But, I don't think he can ever be the one on one defender Green is. Just too slow even tho he's a decent system defender. But, Danny can do both...and better right now. I think Kyle could be a good 3 point shooter and assist/movement guy. But, Patty does that better right now as well.

I like Kyle's controlled game and court awareness a lot. I just don't know where that fits into our current system. Maybe use him a little like Dirk? He can do those middle range fade-away jumpers better than anyone on the team not named Boris...lol

[SAGirl]

Well, reworked or not...I love Kyle's shot now. His release reminds of Dirk's. It's beautiful. I think he could be a great 3 point shooter. l


For the record, ceperez, SAGirl clearly follows college ball. She's proven it on too many occasions. You clearly don't. If she says he re-worked his release in his rookie season, I'd listen.

But that's just me shitting on your takes, and making myself look bad.

If I knew how to do vines I would post a view of his shot b4 and after.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFGl9ndbjZ0
AT min. 5.55 or so it goes into his improved shooting that season. He was very accurate, but his shot was very deliberate. Frankly it looks a lot slower than the shot he has now.

You can see his new 3 pt shot in the first sequence in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DlupBDqmPc

Not super lighting quick but adequate for this level, particularly with his high release. Wishing for more of those.

[DJR210]

But he's a nice guy. Good locker room guy, rarely complains, supports his teammates (he was one of 2 Spurs that supported the SL team).

Here's the deal, Green is guaranteed playing time by virtue of his starting role. He is fifth in playing time of 25 minutes per game. Spurs have been blowing out teams at +14 differential. He is obviously coasting, but if anybody is coasting, you can focus on the Spurs max player.... LMA.

There's no questioning Green's demeanor, or his locker room presence. He is your prototypical Spur role player, and a good dude. Also, no questioning the team success. LMA is an entirely different subject, so I'll keep it at Green.

Green's lack of any significant improvement beyond his defense cannot be ignored. Danny's not a max player of course, but he's not exactly on a veteran's minimum now either. For him to be on the Spurs this long at his age, and not having added anything to his overall game is unacceptable IMO, and even if he was draining his threes at the usual percentage I'd still have the same opinion on him.

[marinoman]

He got paid is my guess

[100%duncan]

Its weird because the eyetest tells me 2 things, it seems like his 2pt shot off a screen in the elbow ala rip hamilton is money and 2nd it seems that he rushes his 3 pt shots very much this season

[SpurSwag]

I have no problem with him missing open 3's and the occasional pull up 3 in transition, those are shots he has shown to be able to hit and I have confidence those shots will fall when it matters. The shots I can't stand are the weird long twos where he takes 1 or 2 indecisive dribbles and throws up an unbalanced look, or where he's coming off of a screen for a midrange two and is again off balanced. I feel like this season he's taking more off balanced shots than I've ever seen, and taking a lot of awkward long 2's that really don't serve any purpose. Idk he seems like he's pressing sometimes when he, for the most part, should be relegated to open 3's and lay ups off cuts/good ball movement.

[SpurSwag]

That being said, I'm confident he'll be there when it matters. No reason not to trust him, as much as kawhi has helped us become truly elite in the NBA again, Danny has had a huge role in that too. Can't even imagine making those back to back finals appearances without him tbh

[ElNono]

I disagree with that.. that's saying the team arrived and Danny just need to be a threat for Spurs to be successful and coast their way to a ring... won't work again top teams on the road

I do consider that Danny getting back at his old self or close to is key for the Spurs.

The "he will play big when it matters" is good for HOFers like Tim or super talented dudes like Bobo.. He cannot afford himself this luxury

I think these historical Spurs can win a ring with this Green... so, I would disagree that him reverting to his old level 'is key'. Obviously, if he plays better, then we get more wiggle room.

[DMC]

It's like when you see the challenges in the ASG. You'll see a guy hit several of the targets in a row then miss an easy one, then he'll get in a hurry and miss again, then he's trying to regain focus and he misses again, then he's second guessing everything muscle memory knows and he misses yet again. It happens in golf and in billiards and darts and almost every precision sport. It's not about mechanics, it's about him forgetting he's in a slump. The problem is he tries to forget so he has to remind himself that he should forget he just missed the last time. Imagine that.

[DMC]

For the record, ceperez, SAGirl clearly follows college ball. She's proven it on too many occasions. You clearly don't. If she says he re-worked his release in his rookie season, I'd listen.

But that's just me shitting on your takes, and making myself look bad.
I don't know why real posters like you respond to alts like ceperez or any of the kawhitards or parker hater alt shtick folks. None of them ever talk basketball from a technical standpoint, always from an abrasive, finger pointing, ignorant ass faggot standpoint and that's being conservative.

[SAGirl]

I think these historical Spurs can win a ring with this Green... so, I would disagree that him reverting to his old level 'is key'. Obviously, if he plays better, then we get more wiggle room.
3 pt shooting can be a big issue for us...
TD 21 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17781),
Claims for Marco...
Historic 3 pt shooting by GSW.
If I could mention one thing, that might be a factor other than health, is a couple of our 3 pt shooters going cold at the same time. We have the defense to survive games like that but that is a very narrow margin for error in late game execution and a coin toss. That is when GSW coin toss has been luckier than our coin toss.

[ElNono]

3 pt shooting can be a big issue for us...
TD 21 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17781),
Claims for Marco...
Historic 3 pt shooting by GSW.
If I could mention one thing, that might be a factor other than health, is a couple of our 3 pt shooters going cold at the same time. We have the defense to survive games like that but that is a very narrow margin for error in late game execution and a coin toss. That is when GSW coin toss has been luckier than our coin toss.

I'll live with Kawhi, Patty or even Manu taking any set play 3 point shot... then, generally speaking, shooters going cold can happen to anybody, including the Spurs (remember Danny in the 2013 WCF?). Likewise, shooters going hot can happen too (Patty making timely 3 point shots in the 2014 Finals and busting games wide open comes to mind).

I would be more concerned if Danny wouldn't be playing defensively as well, but overall, I'm pleased with his play on that side of the court (and I don't have numbers in front of me, just eye test).

Obviously, if Danny starts hitting at a respectable rate again, then much better. It would remove some pressure on our defense, and that's always welcome.

I just don't think Danny hitting 3s is a sole factor that will make or break our season.

Then again, we might not be better than the Warriors, regardless of that situation, when the time comes. That can happen. Or maybe the Warriors won't make the WCF (injuries, slump, you never know), so I don't worry about that right now. I just like how we look defensively, and I think our offense is shaping up very nicely.

[SAGirl]

I'll live with Kawhi, Patty or even Manu taking any set play 3 point shot... then, generally speaking, shooters going cold can happen to anybody, including the Spurs (remember Danny in the 2013 WCF?). Likewise, shooters going hot can happen too (Patty making timely 3 point shots in the 2014 Finals and busting games wide open comes to mind).

I would be more concerned if Danny wouldn't be playing defensively as well, but overall, I'm pleased with his play on that side of the court (and I don't have numbers in front of me, just eye test).

Obviously, if Danny starts hitting at a respectable rate again, then much better. It would remove some pressure on our defense, and that's always welcome.

I just don't think Danny hitting 3s is a sole factor that will make or break our season.

Then again, we might not be better than the Warriors, regardless of that situation, when the time comes. That can happen. Or maybe the Warriors won't make the WCF (injuries, slump, you never know), so I don't worry about that right now. I just like how we look defensively, and I think our offense is shaping up very nicely.

Well, as you know I have staunchly and stubbornly defended Pop's selection of our new wings who are not pure shooters but who have been a plus defensively. We have been blessed that Simmons has had an offensive effect regardless with his relentless aggression and Boban has also been a game changer.

We are also very stout defensively. We are really, really in the best possible situation we can be to win the ship... and that is all you can ask.

It does seem though, that aside from health, late game execution doldrums that we have talked about here ad nauseaum, our only other issue is sometimes guys going cold that we need (Danny frequently, LMA and Tony have had subpar games, and when Patty struggles it is a hurdle). I don't think we need Danny lighting it up like its 2013, but 30% from 3 or below? ... Well you know what? I hope they dare him to shoot cause we know Danny can punish them. If he can't he will have to get benched. We must remember how much Marco had to play in that Clippers series bc our shooting woes. I would say part of the reason I was satisfied with our 4th wing situation is that Danny is/was a knockdown shooter. Specially bc sometimes you do need the 3 to make a run in games or get back into a game if we start with our scoring woes from behind.

Not that the entirety of our championship run rests on Danny of course but seeing Manu's age, and our other wings' reluctance to shoot, I do want Danny at his usual rate.

By the way, J.Simms and Kyle were shooting some 3s in the dleague, they better let that shot go free TBH.

[ElNono]

Well, as you know I have staunchly and stubbornly defended Pop's selection of our new wings who are not pure shooters but who have been a plus defensively. We have been blessed that Simmons has had an offensive effect regardless with his relentless aggression and Boban has also been a game changer.

We are also very stout defensively. We are really, really in the best possible situation we can be to win the ship... and that is all you can ask.

It does seem though, that aside from health, late game execution doldrums that we have talked about here ad nauseaum, our only other issue is sometimes guys going cold that we need (Danny frequently, LMA and Tony have had subpar games, and when Patty struggles it is a hurdle). I don't think we need Danny lighting it up like its 2013, but 30% from 3 or below? ... Well you know what? I hope they dare him to shoot cause we know Danny can punish them. If he can't he will have to get benched. We must remember how much Marco had to play in that Clippers series bc our shooting woes. I would say part of the reason I was satisfied with our 4th wing situation is that Danny is/was a knockdown shooter. Specially bc sometimes you do need the 3 to make a run in games or get back into a game if we start with our scoring woes from behind.

Not that the entirety of our championship run rests on Danny of course but seeing Manu's age, and our other wings' reluctance to shoot, I do want Danny at his usual rate.

By the way, J.Simms and Kyle were shooting some 3s in the dleague, they better let that shot go free TBH.

I'm just enjoying watching the evolution of this team. Enjoying the ride as they say. Frankly, right now, I don't see any of Simms, Anderson or even Boban playing more than spot minutes if the playoffs started today, barring injury.

But obviously that can change from now to April. We'll see also if RC decides to make a move when then trade market opens.

[SAGirl]

I'm just enjoying watching the evolution of this team. Enjoying the ride as they say. Frankly, right now, I don't see any of Simms, Anderson or even Boban playing more than spot minutes if the playoffs started today, barring injury.

But obviously that can change from now to April. We'll see also if RC decides to make a move when then trade market opens.

I think Boban is a guy you throw out there if we are desperate. I particularly have liked how he's able to provide rim protection for the bench. For sure if we have some "Turd Towers" sighting (hate calling them like a schtick, but you get the meaning), throw Boban.

Simmons is also a guy that you may throw for a few minutes if you need a jolt, but then transition scoring does dry up in the playoffs so its not a guarantee that he will have his usual impact, but I do see at least 8 mins of him there like Pop has played him against playoff teams. Short leash. If he can control his fouling and TO I do see more minutes for him. To me he has the wild card X potential, but I guess we will see.

Kyle hasn't shown yet he's at that level. He's still very green and reluctant to shoot. As it concerns him, I do doubt it very much.

[DJR210]

Its weird because the eyetest tells me 2 things, it seems like his 2pt shot off a screen in the elbow ala rip hamilton is money and 2nd it seems that he rushes his 3 pt shots very much this season

Yeah, he seems to be fucking up his shot mechanics on most shots.. Its hardly in rythym and the jump itself is different each time it seems.

[Old School 44]

I have gotten the impression from Pop's comments on other players and in general that he's always trying to make guys into more than they are. He's made that comment referring to other players. To a degree I think it has made him a very successful championship coach. He's always pushing guys beyond what they think they can do. Some guys will grow, get better and push through (the best guys he's coached). But he coaches everyone the same and will push everyone. Some guys fail. He's said that referring to Leonard, how he's like a sponge, they keep loading him up and the guy keeps getting better, and he's remarked not everyone improves.

So I get the sense he tries to make everyone more than they are. Some guys just fall short and don't achieve the vision he has for them. Happened to Danny, but can't fault him for trying. He has one of the largest contracts in the team. Will be here for 4 years, growing with Leonard, and Manu is retiring very soon. Before the month of December when J.Simms grew exponentially he didn't even know if Simms could even play at this level since he looked so poor during preseason, and Anderson is not a SG for sure. So he had to push Danny. It didn't work.

I have no problem with trying to develop someone's game. That's what the player and the coaching staff should do. It's just when do you stop and just say "it's not working?" I honestly don't know if we reached that point with Danny. I just don't want it to effect the rest of his game (overall confidence) going forward. We are nearing the mid point of the season and still winning, despite his struggles on offense. I believe Danny and the coaching staff will figure it out.

[Brazil]

I think these historical Spurs can win a ring with this Green... so, I would disagree that him reverting to his old level 'is key'. Obviously, if he plays better, then we get more wiggle room.

I'm not saying back to his old level but at least not disputing the title of worst shooter of the league with Kobe Bryant would be a start or being bottom 10 at his position

for the rest we disagree... unless you are saying if Kawhi continue playing as top 3 player of the league, everybody healthy, stars align themselves to help spurs etc

[100%duncan]

I'm not saying back to his old level but at least not disputing the title of worst shooter of the league with Kobe Bryant would be a start or being bottom 10 at his position

for the rest we disagree... unless you are saying if Kawhi continue playing as top 3 player of the league, everybody healthy, stars align themselves to help spurs etc

-Kawhi will continue to be a top 5 player.
-Even if danny shoots 50% but the team is not healthy, we don't win anyway.

[ElNono]

I'm not saying back to his old level but at least not disputing the title of worst shooter of the league with Kobe Bryant would be a start or being bottom 10 at his position

for the rest we disagree... unless you are saying if Kawhi continue playing as top 3 player of the league, everybody healthy, stars align themselves to help spurs etc

That's always a given. If we're not healthy or our best players are not playing well, we probably won't make it. But, there's no reason right now to think that won't be the case.

[Brazil]

That's always a given. If we're not healthy or our best players are not playing well, we probably won't make it. But, there's no reason right now to think that won't be the case.

Again I disagree, if Green is back to an average level it would smooth up some hiccups that always happen during a PO run... with Green back you increase your chances of winning of course

then of course if Kawhi is out for the season then it indeed does not matter

[Brazil]

-Kawhi will continue to be a top 5 player.
-Even if danny shoots 50% but the team is not healthy, we don't win anyway.

ok guys I surrender, the fact Green plays good or bad does not matter... we could actually play with a D leaguer at SG position and we would be fine... I'm convinced

[kaji157]

ok guys I surrender, the fact Green plays good or bad does not matter... we could actually play with a D leaguer at SG position and we would be fine... I'm convinced

I disagree, if by PT he is still going 2-9 in most games while 90% of those shoots being open and with 3 turnovers a game, he becomes unplayable, and our system will fail at some point because he is needed for his defense.

On the other hand if green can shoot .420 from 2 and .370 from 3 we might be fine.

[GSH]

So I get the sense he tries to make everyone more than they are. Some guys just fall short and don't achieve the vision he has for them. Happened to Danny, but can't fault him for trying. He has one of the largest contracts in the team. Will be here for 4 years, growing with Leonard, and Manu is retiring very soon. Before the month of December when J.Simms grew exponentially he didn't even know if Simms could even play at this level since he looked so poor during preseason, and Anderson is not a SG for sure. So he had to push Danny. It didn't work.

There have been times that I thought he tried to make a player into something he wasn't ever meant to be. They were fine in their niche, and when they got pushed beyond that, their games went to shit. Bonner is a good example, I think. Malik Rose. Maybe Green this year. There have been others, I just don't feel like trying to dredge up the names.

I've also wondered if he's factoring salary into it. The guy gets so good at his role that other teams want them. The spurs don't want to lose that role, nor the corporate knowledge, so they are compelled to pay more than they might wan to. I think Pop sometimes says, "If the guy is going to get paid that much, he needs to do more than just x and y. Maybe that's not right, but it explains what I've seen happen, so I'm going with it.




ok guys I surrender, the fact Green plays good or bad does not matter... we could actually play with a D leaguer at SG position and we would be fine... I'm convinced

Wow, worst take ever. You obviously don't know anything about basketball, and should not be posting here. You didn't even mention that Porker is fat.

:D

[GSH]

I'm just enjoying watching the evolution of this team. Enjoying the ride as they say. Frankly, right now, I don't see any of Simms, Anderson or even Boban playing more than spot minutes if the playoffs started today, barring injury.

But obviously that can change from now to April. We'll see also if RC decides to make a move when then trade market opens.


Given Pop's history with first-year guys, and the way he seems to be approaching Boban, I would be surprised if he saw more than token minutes in the playoffs.

The way he's using Simmons makes me wonder if he might be one of the rare exceptions. Partly because Pop obviously saw something in him, and partly because he brings something that no one else on the roster brings. (And they need.)

In his rookie season, Danny Green got about 12 minutes per game in the regular season. But in the playoffs, he averaged 2 minutes per, and only played in 4 of the 6 games. Admittedly, it was a short playoff run, but Pop clearly didn't see Danny as playoff worthy that first year. George Hill, on the other hand, played 16 mpg in the regular season, and would have played less if Parker hadn't been injured. But Pop actually played him more minutes after the first couple of playoff games.

I know there is more to those stories, but my point is that if Simmons continues to develop, I wouldn't be surprised if he sees 12-15 mpg in the playoffs.


As for the trade market? This is looking more and more like it could be the last season for Tim and Manu. Normally I don't expect to see the Spurs make any moves in mid-season. But this has the feel of an all-or-nothing campaign. I think it would have to be a special player for there to be any real chance making Pop's playoff rotation. But I bet they'll be looking for that guy pretty hard.

[Mr Bones]

I think Pop is trying to expand Danny's game and make him less one dimensional on offense. It's a noble experiment, but it just might not work. There are players like Kawhi, Steph Curry, Steve Nash, Draymond Green, etc., who can build on their games and be much different & better players in, say, Year 5 than they were in Year one or two... Bruce Bowen was a valuable player, but he was never able to expand his ballhandling & passing skills to the point where he could be dangerous in that regard. I thought two years ago that improved ballhandling skill for Mills, Kawhi, & Green was an important goal for the Spurs as Manu & Tony aged, so 2 outta 3 ain't bad.

On this same topic, one of my favorite non-Spur players to watch this year is Nick Batum with Charlotte... he's having a good year, more like Manu than Green, with great assist/rebound numbers and a respectable 37% from three. He's a free agent at the end of this season, and has lots of connections to the Spurs-- friends with Boris & Tony from the French National team, and former teammates with Aldridge & Mills... His D reminds me of Aldridge's in many ways-- he doesn't look like he's playing in an especially aggressive way, but definitely has the ability to be part of a great defensive team.

[SAGirl]

I've also wondered if he's factoring salary into it. The guy gets so good at his role that other teams want them. The spurs don't want to lose that role, nor the corporate knowledge, so they are compelled to pay more than they might want to. I think Pop sometimes says, "If the guy is going to get paid that much, he needs to do more than just x and y. Maybe that's not right, but it explains what I've seen happen, so I'm going with it.

There has to be a factor with salary, and veteran status in the team, involved.
If the Danny we are seeing was a 2nd or 3rd year player, he would have been benched probably a long time ago and different guys would have tried for that starting spot.

In fact, there are guys in the team who are more suited to what Pop apparently wanted Danny to add (playmaking and ballhandling, some drives over aggressive closeouts), but Pop will not promote them bc, where does that leave your 10m a year player? Specially when he's been just as cold and TO prone with the bench?

Danny most definitely got opportunities for a larger role, and was cut more slack when he was sucking as a factor of his vet status and salary. And I think his role (as far as playmaking, ballhandling, and driving) has been scaled back. He's had a few good games since his terrible start but other than the Houston game, his shooting has been off. We are now in the Danny Green 3 pt shooting watch.

[Kawhitstorm]

You can see his new 3 pt shot in the first sequence in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DlupBDqmPc

Not super lighting quick but adequate for this level, particularly with his high release. Wishing for more of those.

He has that Paul Pierce ultra slow release so he need to add a step-back game to prevent his shot from being blocked.

[SAGirl]

He has that Paul Pierce ultra slow release so he need to add a step-back game to prevent his shot from being blocked.
Do you think Pop will let him try step back 3s like Manu?
Of course not.
Even the step back midrange is only taken in bail out shot clock situations.
I get the impression he can get his own shots on his own when he wanted, but that is not system like.

Oh I do remember in Summer League how many announcers remarked that he did remind them of Pierce.

[ceperez]

I think Pop is trying to expand Danny's game and make him less one dimensional on offense. It's a noble experiment, but it just might not work. There are players like Kawhi, Steph Curry, Steve Nash, Draymond Green, etc., who can build on their games and be much different & better players in, say, Year 5 than they were in Year one or two... Bruce Bowen was a valuable player, but he was never able to expand his ballhandling & passing skills to the point where he could be dangerous in that regard. I thought two years ago that improved ballhandling skill for Mills, Kawhi, & Green was an important goal for the Spurs as Manu & Tony aged, so 2 outta 3 ain't bad.

On this same topic, one of my favorite non-Spur players to watch this year is Nick Batum with Charlotte... he's having a good year, more like Manu than Green, with great assist/rebound numbers and a respectable 37% from three. He's a free agent at the end of this season, and has lots of connections to the Spurs-- friends with Boris & Tony from the French National team, and former teammates with Aldridge & Mills... His D reminds me of Aldridge's in many ways-- he doesn't look like he's playing in an especially aggressive way, but definitely has the ability to be part of a great defensive team.

Hmmm.... I wouldn't mind making the trade Danny Green for Batum. That's one I can endorse!

[TD 21]

I'll live with Kawhi, Patty or even Manu taking any set play 3 point shot... then, generally speaking, shooters going cold can happen to anybody, including the Spurs (remember Danny in the 2013 WCF?). Likewise, shooters going hot can happen too (Patty making timely 3 point shots in the 2014 Finals and busting games wide open comes to mind).

I would be more concerned if Danny wouldn't be playing defensively as well, but overall, I'm pleased with his play on that side of the court (and I don't have numbers in front of me, just eye test).

Obviously, if Danny starts hitting at a respectable rate again, then much better. It would remove some pressure on our defense, and that's always welcome.

I just don't think Danny hitting 3s is a sole factor that will make or break our season.

Then again, we might not be better than the Warriors, regardless of that situation, when the time comes. That can happen. Or maybe the Warriors won't make the WCF (injuries, slump, you never know), so I don't worry about that right now. I just like how we look defensively, and I think our offense is shaping up very nicely.

Not the sole reason, but the margin for error against a team as explosive as the Warriors, particularly on the road, is so slim, that the Spurs could be limiting them, only to hit a 2-3 minute stretch where Curry and to a lesser extent Thompson, hit a few high degree difficulty threes and have the game be over.

If the Spurs could add one more volume three-point shooting wing, that's good enough to be a rotation player on a contender, they'd be the clear best team in the league.

[ceperez]

Not the sole reason, but the margin for error against a team as explosive as the Warriors, particularly on the road, is so slim, that the Spurs could be limiting them, only to hit a 2-3 minute stretch where Curry and to a lesser extent Thompson, hit a few high degree difficulty threes and have the game be over.

If the Spurs could add one more volume three-point shooting wing, that's good enough to be a rotation player on a contender, they'd be the clear best team in the league.

I share that nagging feeling that Spurs are short one more 3 point shooter. I have my doubts that Simmons or Anderson can develop that game quick enough come playoff time. Maybe that other 3 point shooter is Tony Parker... he's hitting it at a good clip lately.

[Brazil]

I disagree, if by PT he is still going 2-9 in most games while 90% of those shoots being open and with 3 turnovers a game, he becomes unplayable, and our system will fail at some point because he is needed for his defense.

On the other hand if green can shoot .420 from 2 and .370 from 3 we might be fine.

:lol in fact I think we quite agree actually

[SpursforSix]

He took a 3 on Monday that was so bad, it looked like he was trying to bank it.

[YGWHI]

ok guys I surrender, the fact Green plays good or bad does not matter...

Danny can play good even if his shots aren't falling. If we play the Warriors/Thunder, Danny does a great job on Curry/Westbrook, doesn't let them have 20, and he goes 0-4 3's ...we'll win the game.

I know, the blue font should tell me something but...

[ElNono]

Not the sole reason, but the margin for error against a team as explosive as the Warriors, particularly on the road, is so slim, that the Spurs could be limiting them, only to hit a 2-3 minute stretch where Curry and to a lesser extent Thompson, hit a few high degree difficulty threes and have the game be over.

If the Spurs could add one more volume three-point shooting wing, that's good enough to be a rotation player on a contender, they'd be the clear best team in the league.

I agree with the contention that the margin is smaller. But I'd like to see what kind of defensive work we do on the Warriors... I have no expectations of shutting down Curry, but I want to see how much we can reduce everyone else's impact.

IMO, a series against them would be more of a defensive grind than an offensive showdown. At least, I think that's how the Spurs would rather play them.

[ElNono]

ok guys I surrender, the fact Green plays good or bad does not matter... we could actually play with a D leaguer at SG position and we would be fine... I'm convinced

That's the french in you speaking, tbh...

[Kawhitstorm]

Do you think Pop will let him try step back 3s like Manu?
Of course not.
Even the step back midrange is only taken in bail out shot clock situations.

If he develops the shot & prove he can hit it consistently in practice then Pop is going to give him the green light. Danny/Patty have the green light to pull up on fast-breaks b/c they have proven that they can hit it. Fathead doesn't necessarily need to jack up 3s but if he can develop a step-back then his slow release wouldn't be much of an issue. Wes Matthews basically shoots step-backs 50% of the time.

[tholdren]

Danny green is no bruce bowen.

[slick'81]

Well everyobe said give him until february soo one more month right?

[SAGirl]

If he develops the shot & prove he can hit it consistently in practice then Pop is going to give him the green light. Danny/Patty have the green light to pull up on fast-breaks b/c they have proven that they can hit it. Fathead doesn't necessarily need to jack up 3s but if he can develop a step-back then his slow release wouldn't be much of an issue. Wes Matthews basically shoots step-backs 50% of the time.
Good point.

He does have a very Dirk-like step back. I hope he's working on that shot. If he develops a nice 3 ball, he would remind me more of Batum, than Boris. The reason he reminds me more of Boris is precisely taht like Boris he likes the midrange, doesn't like the 3 much, would rather drive on close outs and per Pop's has developed a post up game we haven't seen much, but its there. Batum is much more perimeter based, with his 3 pt shots, but still a very good passer, and although more athletic, he also relies on his craftiness and not athleticism to make plays.

I would be very happy with Kyle shooting more 3s, that would really make him a versatile player. At that point, I don't think we want to trade him either.

[DarrinS]

Streaky shooters are streaky, tbh

[Brazil]

That's the french in you speaking, tbh...

:lol I thought this one would have been used sooner but I see you stay sharp my Nono

[100%duncan]

ok guys I surrender, the fact Green plays good or bad does not matter... we could actually play with a D leaguer at SG position and we would be fine... I'm convinced

Lol what i just countered your post are u dumb. Im one of th people who believes that we need a agood green to win but youre saying as if we can win without a healthy team and youre doubting kawhi? I expect more optimism from a poster who thought parker is top 25 player this season

[Brazil]

Lol what i just countered your post are u dumb. Im one of th people who believes that we need a agood green to win but youre saying as if we can win without a healthy team and youre doubting kawhi? I expect more optimism from a poster who thought parker is top 25 player this season

:rolleyes I'm not doubting about kawhi, I never said we can win without a healthy team

[100%duncan]

:rolleyes I'm not doubting about kawhi, I never said we can win without a healthy team

Your post suggests as if being healthy isnt a given to win a championship.

You also said you disagreed with nono when he talked about health :lol

[Neurosis]

I think Brazil was being totally serious when he said we could win with a D-Leaguer at SG.

[Brazil]

Your post suggests as if being healthy isnt a given to win a championship.

You also said you disagreed with nono when he talked about health :lol

I disagree on the fact that this team is fine and With good odds of winning a title with this version of Danny

[Neurosis]

I disagree on the fact that this team is fine and With good odds of winning a title with this version of Danny

Wow way to back out of your argument. Before you said we could win with a D-league player at SG and now you say this. Stop being a pussy and stand up for your real arguments.

:downspin:

[skulls138]

DG needs to pretend he is Robert Horry, chillin behind the three point line just waiting to be hero....maybe with a cocktail in hand.

[Maddog]

Last 10 games
Looking more and more like DG of Old


Player G MP PTS TRB AST STL BLK TOV FG% 3P% FT%

8 Danny Green ↑ 10 22.7 7.7 2.9 1.1 0.7 0.9 0.7 .475 .447 1.000

[UNT Eagles 2016]

DeMarco Murray syndrome tbh

[DMC]

Here's one obvious issue with Green's shot. He's taking his first couple as spot ups and then if he hits one he's shooting on the fly in transition without setting his feet. He's not that kind of shooter. That's Steph Curry shit, not Danny Green shit. He'll hit a few but he's best when he spots up. He rushes his shot, his release is medium speed, not fast like some other shooters.

[cjw]

But damn is he playing some great on ball D plus rebounding.

[DMC]

But damn is he playing some great on ball D plus rebounding.
Which is why Pop has him out there.

[TD 21]

I agree with the contention that the margin is smaller. But I'd like to see what kind of defensive work we do on the Warriors... I have no expectations of shutting down Curry, but I want to see how much we can reduce everyone else's impact.

IMO, a series against them would be more of a defensive grind than an offensive showdown. At least, I think that's how the Spurs would rather play them.

Right, but what would constitute a defensive grind against that team, particularly on the road, would be holding them to something in the low 100's.

As I've said ad nauseam, this team, on the road, against .500 or better teams, in the past near season and a half, has struggled mightily offensively. Having another high percentage, volume three-point shooting wing, is the type of player that could swing a game like that and ultimately the series, given how close it's likely to be.

[ElNono]

Right, but what would constitute a defensive grind against that team, particularly on the road, would be holding them to something in the low 100's.

More like the low 90s, IMO. Cleveland held them to 89, which is rare, but low-mid 90s I think we can compete.


As I've said ad nauseam, this team, on the road, against .500 or better teams, in the past near season and a half, has struggled mightily offensively. Having another high percentage, volume three-point shooting wing, is the type of player that could swing a game like that and ultimately the series, given how close it's likely to be.

We're averaging a bit over 98 ppg on the road against teams over .500 this season. Only a 6 game sample (record is 3-3), but it's further skewed by the fact that our offense was fairly sluggish when the season started (we broke 100pts in only 6 of the first 19 games we played, 4 of those 6 games came during that span and the record was 2-2). In the next 19 games that followed, we scored 100+ in 17 of them. Our road record this season is substantially better (62%) than last season (54%) so far.

Now this can be attributed to a lot of things, like the West sucking more, strength of schedule, etc, but overall I think we've taken advantage of whatever it is.

We talked about the extra shooter before, I respect your take on that, I just don't see minutes for him on this team, especially in the playoffs. I think we're going to ride Danny, Manu, Patty, Bobo and Kawhi for 3 point shooting, and hopefully they'll knock it down.

[TD 21]

More like the low 90s, IMO. Cleveland held them to 89, which is rare, but low-mid 90s I think we can compete.



We're averaging a bit over 98 ppg on the road against teams over .500 this season. Only a 6 game sample (record is 3-3), but it's further skewed by the fact that our offense was fairly sluggish when the season started (we broke 100pts in only 6 of the first 19 games we played, 4 of those 6 games came during that span and the record was 2-2). In the next 19 games that followed, we scored 100+ in 17 of them. Our road record this season is substantially better (62%) than last season (54%) so far.

Now this can be attributed to a lot of things, like the West sucking more, strength of schedule, etc, but overall I think we've taken advantage of whatever it is.

We talked about the extra shooter before, I respect your take on that, I just don't see minutes for him on this team, especially in the playoffs. I think we're going to ride Danny, Manu, Patty, Bobo and Kawhi for 3 point shooting, and hopefully they'll knock it down.

In a one off, it's possible, but it's unlikely anyone holds them to that, on the road, especially in a game the magnitude of a Conference Finals one.

Average is one thing; what's the three-point percentage and overall efficiency and what were they last season?

I agree, there is no move coming, at least insofar as the rotation. But I don't see an argument for how there wouldn't be minutes, considering the lack of a proven fourth wing.

[SAGirl]

Right, but what would constitute a defensive grind against that team, particularly on the road, would be holding them to something in the low 100's.

As I've said ad nauseam, this team, on the road, against .500 or better teams, in the past near season and a half, has struggled mightily offensively. Having another high percentage, volume three-point shooting wing, is the type of player that could swing a game like that and ultimately the series, given how close it's likely to be.
Actually I disagree specially lately. I think Simmons pushing the pace in transition has given the team a lot of easy looks and gotten him to the line. The way Kawhi is shooting the 3 he should get all clutch shot opportunities.

[ElNono]

In a one off, it's possible, but it's unlikely anyone holds them to that, on the road, especially in a game the magnitude of a Conference Finals one.

Average is one thing; what's the three-point percentage and overall efficiency and what were they last season?

I agree, there is no move coming, at least insofar as the rotation. But I don't see an argument for how there wouldn't be minutes, considering the lack of a proven fourth wing.

I think during the playoffs, the game slows down. I know they'll try to to speed it up, but we've done a good job of controlling the tempo in general. I'm not saying they're not going to go off here or there, but if the Spurs want to win, I think that's a sensible target, and we're going to have to continue being the top defense in the NBA when the time comes if we want to pull it off.

As far as 3 point shooting, I don't have splits at hand for 3P% and against over .500 teams, but what I think it's notable is: we're actually shooting a bit better this season (38.4%) vs last season (36.7%), but what I also find more notable is that we're on pace to shoot quite a few less 3 pointers this season (717 so far, 18.9/game) vs last season (1847, 22.5/game), which I think points to our change of philosophy in going more inside where we are bigger. These are all regular season numbers, and as usual, have to be taken with a grain of salt. Pop likes to change his strategy much more against specific matchups in the playoffs.

[TD 21]

I think during the playoffs, the game slows down. I know they'll try to to speed it up, but we've done a good job of controlling the tempo in general. I'm not saying they're not going to go off here or there, but if the Spurs want to win, I think that's a sensible target, and we're going to have to continue being the top defense in the NBA when the time comes if we want to pull it off.

As far as 3 point shooting, I don't have splits at hand for 3P% and against over .500 teams, but what I think it's notable is: we're actually shooting a bit better this season (38.4%) vs last season (36.7%), but what I also find more notable is that we're on pace to shoot quite a few less 3 pointers this season (717 so far, 18.9/game) vs last season (1847, 22.5/game), which I think points to our change of philosophy in going more inside where we are bigger. These are all regular season numbers, and as usual, have to be taken with a grain of salt. Pop likes to change his strategy much more against specific matchups in the playoffs.

"We're" also not going to be able to win this series, if it's a constant struggle offensively, on the road.

It's not a change of philosophy, so much as it's the reality of the personnel.

[SAGirl]

BOttom line, Danny is no longer in the slump he started at. He has to shoot without hesitation when he's got space to do it and if he doesn't keep it simple. I think we nee Danny at his usual an have stated that from th beginning. I was starting to get alarmed that he had continued more off than on for such a long time but he's been better. 4th wing will see spot minutes, more if he is impactful, less if he's nit.

[boutons_deux]

was it 05 when Bones started the pre-season and season with 3Gs something like 5 for 60?

[ElNono]

I'm more concerned with a bit of slippage on the defensive end. It was more than made up with the relative explosion on offense lately, but I think that's really where we need to hang our hat on in the long run this season.

[TD 21]

BOttom line, Danny is no longer in the slump he started at. He has to shoot without hesitation when he's got space to do it and if he doesn't keep it simple. I think we nee Danny at his usual an have stated that from th beginning. I was starting to get alarmed that he had continued more off than on for such a long time but he's been better. 4th wing will see spot minutes, more if he is impactful, less if he's nit.

In a series as close as this one is likely to be (if/when, of course), the margins matter.

Even though they went on to lose the series, Neal shooting out of his mind from 3 in game 3 of the '13 Finals, mattered. Belinelli hitting that momentum halting three, after the Heat had significantly slashed the lead in game 3 of the '14 Finals, mattered.

Do you honestly trust Simmons/Anderson to be that guy in '16?


I'm more concerned with a bit of slippage on the defensive end. It was more than made up with the relative explosion on offense lately, but I think that's really where we need to hang our hat on in the long run this season.

It's happened recently and it was inevitable. They'll probably remain number one throughout though.

Lack of volume three-point shooting is the biggest concern.

[SAGirl]

In a series as close as this one is likely to be (if/when, of course), the margins matter.

Even though they went on to lose the series, Neal shooting out of his mind from 3 in game 3 of the '13 Finals, mattered. Belinelli hitting that momentum halting three, after the Heat had significantly slashed the lead in game 3 of the '14 Finals, mattered.

Do you honestly trust Simmons/Anderson to be that guy in '16?



It's happened recently and it was inevitable. They'll probably remain number one throughout though.

Lack of volume three-point shooting is the biggest concern.
The team just plays different and looks to score differently. We are no longer spacing the court four out all the time and when they do its Diaw. Bonner hasn't really played real minutes but Pop keeps him playing garbage time so he's ready. I wouldn't trust even Butler to take a 3. He's been streaky. If we need that shot it should be Kawhi. For minutes, it will be matchups. Both wings can score and generate their looks differently. Simmons has been aggresive cutting and can shoot a 3. Maybe teams don't go on runs and you don't need to get in a shootout with a Neal and Marco type.

[Brazil]

I'm happy to see there are some threads left where people actually talk ball tbh... :tu

[Brazil]

After some good games, this game against Nets was pretty bad in particular offensively... 0 pt 1 reb 1 stl 1 tov but at least 3 assits in 19 mn is :rolleyes he played ok defense but man I'd like this slump be over by now tbh

[100%duncan]

After some good games, this game against Nets was pretty bad in particular offensively... 0 pt 1 reb 1 stl 1 tov but at least 3 assits in 19 mn is :rolleyes he played ok defense but man I'd like this slump be over by now tbh
We will see against cavs, danny has played well relatively on hyped up games this season.

[Brazil]

We will see against cavs, danny has played well relatively on hyped up games this season.

true even though I don't buy too much on the he's coasting against weak opponents and step up against bigs but we will see

[100%duncan]

true even though I don't buy too much on the he's coasting against weak opponents and step up against bigs but we will see

I also dont think he's coasting. He's still out there defending the opponent's second best perimeter player, rebounding, hustling, trying to get points anyway possible, if he was indeed coasting Pop would have already benched his ass for a very promising simmons imho.

[Brazil]

I also dont think he's coasting. He's still out there defending the opponent's second best perimeter player, rebounding, hustling, trying to get points anyway possible, if he was indeed coasting Pop would have already benched his ass for a very promising simmons imho.

I agree on defense he continues to do a good job but I believe this team needs his shooting back asap in particular against GSW

[silverblackfan]

Danny is putting most of his energy into defense and just getting less open looks. Probably more due to LMA and West getting those extra shots. He did pass up a few attempts last night, but was LMA had his guy backed down and was shooting lights out. His green light is still there, just flickers occasionally.

[ceperez]

Defensively he's been solid.

However last night, when he played with the second team. He looked like the worse player offensively. It was liked he was struggling to figure out where he should position.

[ceperez]

I agree on defense he continues to do a good job but I believe this team needs his shooting back asap in particular against GSW

If he can shut down Curry or Thompson, then we can live without him shooting.

[Brazil]

If he can shut down Curry or Thompson, then we can live without him shooting.

nobody will shut down Curry tbh...

[ElNono]

http://i.imgur.com/36G14Bk.gif

:lol

[Old School 44]

Not really concerned about Danny's offense. Sure it would be nice if he knocked down 40% of his 3s, but as long as he keeps playing strong D I'm not too worried. Danny already has a stellar 3pt shooter reputation, especially in the playoffs. That reputation is solid enough to where defenses will still account for him, even if he's shooting at a lower percentage. With that said, I do think he'll snap out of it.

[NameLess Scrub]

Danny's shooting has been one of the most satisfying aspects of watching the Spurs these recent years.
The world is better when he's making 3pt shots.

So I hope he can get out of it. He's great in helping the Spurs pull away and avoiding close game situations in the 4th.

[Spur|n|Austin]

Is Danny at least hitting the 3 ball in practice?

I'm a believer that his D is more important than his shot, but we need something. This constant brick shit could be the Spurs demise against GS.

[GSH]

The Spurs have the 2 overall seed locked up now, and they aren't going to catch Golden State for the 1 seed. None of the remaining games mean anything except what they can do to help the team get ready for the playoffs. And the Spurs have one of the best shooting coaches in the league. Leave Danny at home for a few games. Lock him in the gym with Chip, and don't let him out until he's confident in his stroke. I know I said it earlier in the season, but no there really isn't anything keeping them from doing it. If Danny could start making his 3-pointers, and stretching defenses a little more, the Spurs are much more of a threat to GS, and nobody else in the league stands a chance.

Instead of worrying about why he hasn't been making those shots, invest in fixing it. It's pretty rare to have the luxury of doing that with this much time remaining. Take advantage of it.

[Rob123]

It's gotta be because his ex just had a baby with another man.

[Spur|n|Austin]

The Spurs have the 2 overall seed locked up now, and they aren't going to catch Golden State for the 1 seed. None of the remaining games mean anything except what they can do to help the team get ready for the playoffs. And the Spurs have one of the best shooting coaches in the league. Leave Danny at home for a few games. Lock him in the gym with Chip, and don't let him out until he's confident in his stroke. I know I said it earlier in the season, but no there really isn't anything keeping them from doing it. If Danny could start making his 3-pointers, and stretching defenses a little more, the Spurs are much more of a threat to GS, and nobody else in the league stands a chance.

Instead of worrying about why he hasn't been making those shots, invest in fixing it. It's pretty rare to have the luxury of doing that with this much time remaining. Take advantage of it.

+1

We aren't chasing the 1 seed, or even HCA in the 1st/2nd round like last season.

[Hoops Czar]

Instead of worrying about why he hasn't been making those shots, invest in fixing it. It's pretty rare to have the luxury of doing that with this much time remaining. Take advantage of it.

Maybe a visit to the team's psychiatrist would do the trick. His problem is 90% mental. If his form was the issue, he wouldn't be shooting 90% on dead ball three's

[GSH]

His problem is 90% mental.

No doubt. A good shooting coach is part sports psychologist. Chip Engelland is a good shooting coach.

[Obstructed_View]

DANNY CHANGE YOUR GOT DAMN NUMBER BACK PRONTO!!!!!!11!1!1

[DMC]

Danny is doing more with the ball now than he has in the past. He's not spotting up nearly as much. When he does, there aren't other threats on the floor to shoot the 3 like in days past so all the perimeter defense can stay at home on Danny. When Marco was out there, it was a "pick your poison" thing, not now. They'll leave Tony wide open to brick a 3, and Patty has to curl off high screens to get his, but Danny is a spot up shooter who's lately been watching too much Curry because he's spotting up several feet from the 3pt line. He cannot rely on Kawhi to shoot the 3 and draw defense because KL would rather put the ball on the floor. Danny cannot put the ball on the floor with any success so he's stuck with that shot or a pass, so they close out hard on him and he either takes a bad look or no look.

We aren't running the same sets as we were, and LMA in the post is still 12' out and a much better option than the risky pass cross court to Green. So then Danny's shots often come cold or in transition or simply after more movement than he's used in the past. He's not the savior of the Spurs on offense, but we need his defense. We aren't the 3pt threat we were in the past but we seem to be doing ok.

[spursistan]

from Game Thread..


Sans the Heat and Clippers games, Danny Green is 5-45 on three's this month.

Just utterly disgusting.

[Brazil]

Green finished 2015 and started 2016 pretty well tbh shooting around 40% but yeah he has an atrocious month of March... and again to come back to OP statistically speaking in March he is not taking less open 3s, he is not less in catch and shoot situations... nothing changed much

There is no way imo we win a serie against GSW with March Green

[NameLess Scrub]

The Spurs have the 2 overall seed locked up now, and they aren't going to catch Golden State for the 1 seed. None of the remaining games mean anything except what they can do to help the team get ready for the playoffs. And the Spurs have one of the best shooting coaches in the league. Leave Danny at home for a few games. Lock him in the gym with Chip, and don't let him out until he's confident in his stroke. I know I said it earlier in the season, but no there really isn't anything keeping them from doing it. If Danny could start making his 3-pointers, and stretching defenses a little more, the Spurs are much more of a threat to GS, and nobody else in the league stands a chance.

Instead of worrying about why he hasn't been making those shots, invest in fixing it. It's pretty rare to have the luxury of doing that with this much time remaining. Take advantage of it.


Maybe a visit to the team's psychiatrist would do the trick. His problem is 90% mental. If his form was the issue, he wouldn't be shooting 90% on dead ball three's


No doubt. A good shooting coach is part sports psychologist. Chip Engelland is a good shooting coach.


I wouldn't mind this.

[Maddog]

Danny is doing more with the ball now than he has in the past. He's not spotting up nearly as much. When he does, there aren't other threats on the floor to shoot the 3 like in days past so all the perimeter defense can stay at home on Danny. When Marco was out there, it was a "pick your poison" thing, not now. They'll leave Tony wide open to brick a 3, and Patty has to curl off high screens to get his, but Danny is a spot up shooter who's lately been watching too much Curry because he's spotting up several feet from the 3pt line. He cannot rely on Kawhi to shoot the 3 and draw defense because KL would rather put the ball on the floor. Danny cannot put the ball on the floor with any success so he's stuck with that shot or a pass, so they close out hard on him and he either takes a bad look or no look.

We aren't running the same sets as we were, and LMA in the post is still 12' out and a much better option than the risky pass cross court to Green. So then Danny's shots often come cold or in transition or simply after more movement than he's used in the past. He's not the savior of the Spurs on offense, but we need his defense. We aren't the 3pt threat we were in the past but we seem to be doing ok.


Green finished 2015 and started 2016 pretty well tbh shooting around 40% but yeah he has an atrocious month of March... and again to come back to OP statistically speaking in March he is not taking less open 3s, he is not less in catch and shoot situations... nothing changed much

There is no way imo we win a serie against GSW with March Green

Last night I thought I saw him pass up shots he would normally take, or start driving too soon.
Since KMart so far hasn't quite got going, The Spurs are going to have a tough time

[GSH]

Danny is doing more with the ball now than he has in the past. He's not spotting up nearly as much. When he does, there aren't other threats on the floor to shoot the 3 like in days past so all the perimeter defense can stay at home on Danny. When Marco was out there, it was a "pick your poison" thing, not now. They'll leave Tony wide open to brick a 3, and Patty has to curl off high screens to get his, but Danny is a spot up shooter who's lately been watching too much Curry because he's spotting up several feet from the 3pt line. He cannot rely on Kawhi to shoot the 3 and draw defense because KL would rather put the ball on the floor. Danny cannot put the ball on the floor with any success so he's stuck with that shot or a pass, so they close out hard on him and he either takes a bad look or no look.

We aren't running the same sets as we were, and LMA in the post is still 12' out and a much better option than the risky pass cross court to Green. So then Danny's shots often come cold or in transition or simply after more movement than he's used in the past. He's not the savior of the Spurs on offense, but we need his defense. We aren't the 3pt threat we were in the past but we seem to be doing ok.


There's some truth in all of that. Not the whole truth - Danny has just bricked A LOT of wide-open 3's this season. When a guy like him has time to square up and step into his shot, and there's no one crowding him? He should knock them down at a better rate than he has for most of the season. But as far as Danny as an overall threat, yeah, you have some good points.

It works two ways, though. If Danny could start knocking more of the long ones down, it forces defenses to stay with him more, and not sag to those other guys as hard. He doesn't need to make them all, but the team really needs a more consistent outside threat.

[SpursFan86]

Danny is shooting 35.4% on spot-up attempts this year and that makes up over 40% of his attempts.

On shots where the closest defender is from 4-6 feet away (considered "open"), Green is shooting 30.9% from deep. 22.1% of his 3PA fall in this category.

On shots where the closest defender is 6+ feet away (considered "wide open"), Green is shooting 36.1% from deep. 31% of his 3PA fall in this category. I mean for fucks sake, damn near a 3rd of his 3PA are wide open shots.

Sorry, but I'm done with the excuses at this point. I don't know what the fuck is wrong with his shot, but it's broken. I mean have you guys seen some of the shots he throws up? Seems like half the time it's not even particularly close to being a make. I'd love for him to get it together for the playoffs but as of now I've all but lost hope. I'm certainly not expecting it.

[Brazil]

Danny is shooting 35.4% on spot-up attempts this year and that makes up over 40% of his attempts.

On shots where the closest defender is from 4-6 feet away (considered "open"), Green is shooting 30.9% from deep. 22.1% of his 3PA fall in this category.

On shots where the closest defender is 6+ feet away (considered "wide open"), Green is shooting 36.1% from deep. 31% of his 3PA fall in this category. I mean for fucks sake, damn near a 3rd of his 3PA are wide open shots.

Sorry, but I'm done with the excuses at this point. I don't know what the fuck is wrong with his shot, but it's broken. I mean have you guys seen some of the shots he throws up? Seems like half the time it's not even particularly close to being a make. I'd love for him to get it together for the playoffs but as of now I've all but lost hope. I'm certainly not expecting it.

exactly one of my point I don't buy the "defenders are closing faster" or "sets are different"... truth is, he is as open as last year in his 3 PAs, he is on catch and shoot positions as much as before.. This slump is on him not on Spurs way of playing bb

[Spurtacular]

Danny Green's prolonged slump has highlighted the missed opportunity to keep Jimmer on board.

[Brazil]

Danny Green's prolonged slump has highlighted the missed opportunity to keep Jimmer on board.

your shtick is quite awful brah....

[spursistan]

your shtick is quite awful brah....

[Spurtacular]

your shtick is quite awful brah....

I'll take 40+ 3FG to 33FG in many cases. Sorry if facing truth is hard for you.

[SAGirl]

With Danny needed to play so many minutes for his defensive production, I don't know if we can win a championship with this version of him.

I am not one to get on his case, bc he already gets a lot of criticism without my helping the cause, but its a really big problem.

[wildbill2u]

This thread started months ago when we'd only played 36 games. If it was simply a short slump like most shooters get, it would have ended long ago. Lots of proof now that his shooting is in the toilet for whatever reason and we have no one to provide that 3 pt threat except Kwahi on the starting five. Not a good situation.

[Brazil]

I'll take 40+ 3FG to 33FG in many cases. Sorry if facing truth is hard for you.

truth is jimmer is not a nba player just good for D league... from there your shtick is as bad as jimmer faggette

[GSH]

I'll take 40+ 3FG to 33FG in many cases. Sorry if facing truth is hard for you.


If ST was an NBA team, you would have been gone after your 10 day contract expired.

Like Jimmer.

[Bearcaught]

I dont think people realize how amazing the spurs would be this season if Danny Green just hit his OPEN 3 pointers this year.. if he was 40% from OPEN 3s our net rating would be insane. I swear he misses like 3+ open 3s a game.. and I get cancer every time it happens.

[kaji157]

With Danny needed to play so many minutes for his defensive production, I don't know if we can win a championship with this version of him.

I am not one to get on his case, bc he already gets a lot of criticism without my helping the cause, but its a really big problem.

This goes back to last season, he started playing like shit in last years playoffs, when Manu was clearly gassed and Pop and the team gave him more responsabilities, like handling the ball a bit and finishing games.

He cracked under that pressure and never recovered.

If he has a good playoffs by some miracle he needs to be traded if we can, and if we can package him with TP that would be awesome.

[kaji157]

I dont think people realize how amazing the spurs would be this season if Danny Green just hit his OPEN 3 pointers this year.. if he was 40% from OPEN 3s our net rating would be insane. I swear he misses like 3+ open 3s a game.. and I get cancer every time it happens.

Wasnt there a page that had stats on open and contested shots for players?

Edit:

Found the page, is http://www.nbasavant.com/

The drop on Green´s open shots is amazing, last season and this season. Is like he forgot how to shoot.

Let´s take as a meassure that an open shoot is when the defender is 4 feet away or more.

So now the horrible results, Green shot.

Distance 4ft 5ft 6ft 7ft
Season
14-15 .440 .470 .513 .539
15-16 .306 .307 .341 .290

That is fucking utter shit people, nothing anyone on the team can do to help him shot better when he is left open with no defender on sight, he either takes his head out of his arse or he SHOULD be traded.

[spursistan]

no more excuses. he is having a down year.. clearly, some shit he worked on (or didn't) in the summer seems to have backfired (most noticeably the shot)..

just when you think we were past the worst part, he's gone on a crappier brickfest post-All star (35%/24% 3PT)..

[Spurtacular]

If ST was an NBA team, you would have been gone after your 10 day contract expired.

Like Jimmer.

You wouldn't have even been in camp.

[Spurtacular]

truth is jimmer is not a nba player just good for D league... from there your shtick is as bad as jimmer faggette

That's schtick. Jimmer deniers afraid to face the possibility of him coming back.

[dabom]

Danny is shooting 35.4% on spot-up attempts this year and that makes up over 40% of his attempts.

On shots where the closest defender is from 4-6 feet away (considered "open"), Green is shooting 30.9% from deep. 22.1% of his 3PA fall in this category.

On shots where the closest defender is 6+ feet away (considered "wide open"), Green is shooting 36.1% from deep. 31% of his 3PA fall in this category. I mean for fucks sake, damn near a 3rd of his 3PA are wide open shots.

Sorry, but I'm done with the excuses at this point. I don't know what the fuck is wrong with his shot, but it's broken. I mean have you guys seen some of the shots he throws up? Seems like half the time it's not even particularly close to being a make. I'd love for him to get it together for the playoffs but as of now I've all but lost hope. I'm certainly not expecting it.

[Brazil]

That's schtick. Jimmer deniers afraid to face the possibility of him coming back.

ok brah... stay with your shtick and be as relevant as Jimmer in the nba... let us proceed

[spurtech09]

Don't know whats the deal with Danny.......He use to be automatic in the 3pt department .....

[Spurtacular]

ok brah... stay with your shtick and be as relevant as Jimmer in the nba... let us proceed

As 2014 showed, Spurs offense runs best when they can spread the floor and make three's. Spurs struggle when Danny is missing open threes like he has been. Jimmer has shot the ball much better this year. Spurs dropped a kind of shitty but otherwise serviceable guard McCallum to pick up Martin even though it was doubtful he'd fit into their system in an attempt to keep up with GS. In the GS game, Parker was spotting up in the corner an inordinate amount because we needed more range. Jimmer of course can bomb from anywhere around the arc. Spurs know they should have went with their initial instinct and kept Jimmer. He would of assimilated in the system and developed into that scoring punch off the bench ala Mills.

[dabom]

ok brah... stay with your shtick and be as relevant as Jimmer in the nba... let us proceed

:lol

[LittleCriminal]

Ever since he made those ugly trash can commercials his shooting sux..

Either He's gone Hollywood or his shot also stayed inside the trash can during said commercials..