In defense of the Parker/LMA PnR. In defense of Tony Parker (for the most part).

[midnightpulp]

Disclaimer: No agenda to grind here.

I promised Apa that I would rewatch tonight's game carefully and pay attention to how opposing teams are supposedly scheming against and stopping the Parker PnR in crunch time.

They aren't stopping it, at least not this Knicks team.

I took snap shots of all the PnR plays in the 4th and the spacing and options the Parker/LMA 2 man game generate are pretty substantial.

Look at the crowd Parker draws here. From this position, he potentially has a layup (not the best shot against the Knicks length, but against smaller teams, it will be there), a dump off to LMA for a dunk (it wasn't there in this instance, but will be there), and a kick out to Kawhi for 3/drive. Parker made the right play, kicked it out to Kawhi, which resulted in a Kawhi vs. Melo one-on-one situation, with Melo fouling Kawhi.

http://oi63.tinypic.com/160ageb.jpg

Parker draws another crowd. The Knicks collapse to cut off his penetration and what results is LMA wide open at the top of the key. LMA can either take the shot and/or kick it to Leonard for an open 3 (since Melo would likely run out to LMA to try and defend the shot). Danny Green could also have an open 3 point shot from this situation. Play resulted in LMA swishing a jumper.

http://oi68.tinypic.com/1585ks0.jpg

Here the Spurs got a double switch off the PnR. Parker can either take Lopez or dump it in to LMA who obviously has the advantage over Melo on the block. LMA made a great seal and Parker walked in for the layup.

http://oi64.tinypic.com/xpued3.jpg

As for getting torched by Galloway. Parker wasn't directly involved in any of Galloway's scoring plays that I can remember. Galloway mostly freelanced his way to points in the fourth.

RobZ was right, Parker played a pretty good game.

But I know what Parker haters are focusing on. The last shot Parker took (which wasn't from a PnR set) was God awful and exemplified "Enrique" and "Hero ball." He took an LMA pass, and off an LMA pick (it still wasn't a PnR play) launched a stupid 18 footer with 7 seconds left on the shot clock as Porzingis was running toward him. Just a brain dead fuckin' play. If this were the playoffs, and that decision had cost us the game, I would be going nuclear on Parker right now.

This play was also irritating. Kawhi had a clear pinch, and Parker refused to pass (in Parker's limited defense, when you see a giant like Lopez in front of you, that pass isn't as easy to make as it looks from our POV. Still, Parker could've ball faked and then hit Kawhi or something).

http://oi67.tinypic.com/30m0srd.jpg

Parker does need to clean up a few bad habits, but if this game is any indication, I think the PnR will be a great weapon for this team. LMA can do so much more than Duncan and Tiago can here. And it WILL generate offense and mismatches for Kawhi. That said, the Warriors might have the personnel to defend it, since they can switch everything and not be mismatched, but against most teams, I don't see them defending these sets very effectively.

The Knicks gave us a "sweat" because they really did make a lot of tough outside shots. Leonard and LMA were also clearly fouled on a few plays that should've been FTs.

I'm looking hard, but I'm just not seeing Parker being a detriment this season. Analytics confirm it as does "eye test" analysis.

Am I worried he'll play in the playoffs like he did on that shitty shot toward the end of this game? Yes. But as of right now, I can't see much to complain about.

[ceperez]

Only the last play where Tony ran down the clock and took a contested shot. That was a bad play, it should have been in Kawhi's hands to run down the clock.

There of course is that argument that Parker has a better mismatch with Calderon over Kawhi vs Anthony.

Given that, you give the ball to be best mismatch and not the best player.

[Seventyniner]

Great post, OP. Glad to see some objectivity here. I also thought Parker had played a good game until that terrible last shot.

[midnightpulp]

Only the last play where Tony ran down the clock and took a contested shot. That was a bad play, it should have been in Kawhi's hands to run down the clock.

There of course is that argument that Parker has a better mismatch with Calderon over Kawhi vs Anthony.

Given that, you give the ball to be best mismatch and not the best player.

I have no idea what they were doing on the last play when the PnR was working so well. They brain farted.

This play began badly with Parker dribbling to one side of the floor (basically cuts the court in half and forces a predictable 2 man game). He makes a lazy pass to LMA, who is positioned way outside his range/comfort zone and being defended by Porz, who easily cuts LMA off. LMA is forced to pass it back to Parker, sets a pick for Parker, and with 7 seconds left, Parker takes an shitty 18 footer.

http://oi63.tinypic.com/avpwl1.jpg

Ok, rewatching it again, the play makes a bit more sense. It got Parker a huge mismatch and clear driving lane that he didn't fuckin take for some god only knows reason.

http://oi63.tinypic.com/e0r3wp.jpg

Actually a decent play. It created a wide open lane for Parker. If he drives here, he either has a layup or can hit a cutting Kawhi for a dunk as Melo would be forced to try and block the shot.

Why he took that fuckin' jumper is bizarre.

[Brazil]

Nice breakdown mid, thanks

[Obstructed_View]

There's some defense for the last shots many times. Defenses focus so much on Parker that it's almost habit for him to put up a jumper when the screen allows it. Pop, as we all know, loves to play percentages, and having Parker punish teams for going under is automatic, and will always, in the long run, benefit the team whether or not the shot goes in. Parker has also worked immensely hard to make that shot one of the most reliable in the game. It's easy to second guess the decision based on whether or not the ball goes through the hoop, but that seems like a practice that's ignorant of the way the Spurs have played for much of the last two decades.

[midnightpulp]

Adding 2 more instances.

Both plays resulted in a wide open jumper for Tony (he made one/missed one). Why wouldn't he take these? He's shooting 57% from 16 feet and out this year. I agree the 18 footer from the PnR shouldn't be "spammed," (which it wasn't in this game), especially against the Warriors who have Draymond that can close that distance much faster than lops like Lopez, but it's a useful play to run at times because it establishes Parker's jumper and opens up the paint.

http://oi68.tinypic.com/2uqnfpl.jpg

http://oi65.tinypic.com/25svptz.jpg

Those aren't "Enrique" jumpers. Enrique jumpers are when he dribbles/dribbles/dribbles, does some kind of lazy crossover, and shoots a contested 18 footer.

That said, I hope Pop adds some more variety off this set. Parker has a driving lane and Leonard can cut through the backdoor for an alleyoop/dunk.

[midnightpulp]

There's some defense for the last shots many times. Defenses focus so much on Parker that it's almost habit for him to put up a jumper when the screen allows it. Pop, as we all know, loves to play percentages, and having Parker punish teams for going under is automatic, and will always, in the long run, benefit the team whether or not the shot goes in. Parker has also worked immensely hard to make that shot one of the most reliable in the game. It's easy to second guess the decision based on whether or not the ball goes through the hoop, but that seems like a practice that's ignorant of the way the Spurs have played for much of the last two decades.

The two jumpers I just poster were "good" jumpers. The one over Porzingis was terrible and not a high percentage shot by any means. Parker should've driven. I know what you're saying, that Parker is hardwired to shoot there after a decade, but he also knows how to penetrate off those mismatches.

[Obstructed_View]

The two jumpers I just poster were "good" jumpers. The one over Porzingis was terrible and not a high percentage shot by any means. Parker should've driven. I know what you're saying, that Parker is hardwired to shoot there after a decade, but he also knows how to penetrate off those mismatches.

And we know that the big downside of having a shoot-first point guard is that he runs home to what he knows a little too often. It sucks, but it's kind of to be expected. He's a long way from Jamal Crawford or Kobe Ballhog.

[benefactor]

Good stuff mid. Thanks.

[TheGreatYacht]

Great stuff OP, obviously there's posters that don't watch games and follow play-by-plays on NBA.com

[Vokun]

Great breakdown post.


I honestly thought TP played a decent game until that last fucking shot. He had two options, dish it to LMA who had the mismatch or drive it on Porzingis for a somewhat easy layup. Instead, he chose the worst option in that situation.

[100%duncan]

I havent watched the game but Im glad the tp lma 2 man game is really materializing. Enough of tptd or lma green pnr/pnps.

[pookenstein]

Great stuff OP, obviously there's posters that don't watch games and follow play-by-plays on NBA.com

No need to go there TGY. This is a great thread and you try to provoke the usual krew battle.

[picnroll]

Great analysis midnightpulp. This should be the benchmark for praising or criticizing a players play in a game. Dumbom and appleshits are the other end of the spectrum pointless trolling or half assed worthless analysis without substance to back it up. Well done.:toast

[bklynspursfan]

Great post, OP. Glad to see some objectivity here. I also thought Parker had played a good game until that terrible last shot.

+1.. Even that last shot, I don't know what other options there were. Offense had become a bit stagnant, and no one could make anything happen. A timeout would have been good too, like we got that play with LMA hitting Manu on the backdoor. Could have got something similar.

Some "fans" on here talking about hero ball and all this other non-sense, I swear I can't tell if they are really that immature/illiterate or just enjoy trolling

[ElNono]

Such vanilla mainstream screencaps from OP... why isn't the ball in Kawhi's hands in any of those screencaps? smh

Look at every other team in the league, crunchtime comes and they put the ball in their best player's hands (even the Knicks last night with Porzingod and Melo).

Also, you should delete that post immediately, if any of the coaches sees Kawhi ball watching in a corner in crunch time, he's not making the All Star game.

[houston spurs fan]

Such vanilla mainstream screencaps from OP... why isn't the ball in Kawhi's hands in any of those screencaps? smh

Look at every other team in the league, crunchtime comes and they put the ball in their best player's hands (even the Knicks last night with Porzingod and Melo).

Also, you should delete that post immediately, if any of the coaches sees Kawhi ball watching in a corner in crunch time, he's not making the All Star game.
It's really annoying at this point man. We didn't have to deal with this a couple years ago. We are 32 and freaking 6. Jesus,I dont know where all these guys came from. I thought trolls at first but they legitimately hate some of our guys and want our team to do poorly to make a damn point...

[ElNono]

It's really annoying at this point man. We didn't have to deal with this a couple years ago. We are 32 and freaking 6. Jesus,I dont know where all these guys came from. I thought trolls at first but they legitimately hate some of our guys and want our team to do poorly to make a damn point...

At first I thought it was just trolling, but when you look at the Jimmer thread, you really start wondering if we really do have some legit retards in here, tbh

[313]

At first I thought it was just trolling, but when you look at the Jimmer thread, you really start wondering if we really do have some legit retards in here, tbh
Doesn't the Jimmer thread have like 100 pages ������

[Seventyniner]

At first I thought it was just trolling, but when you look at the Jimmer thread, you really start wondering if we really do have some legit retards in here, tbh

You're just starting to wonder?

For most of them it's far more about getting any sort of attention than actually having a defensible position.

The knew members on both sides are gonna vote for Trump, mark my words.

[EVAY]

Terrific contribution, M-P. Thanks very much for the work in re-watching and taking the time to put all this together. Great objectivity!

[FuzzyLumpkins]

At first I thought it was just trolling, but when you look at the Jimmer thread, you really start wondering if we really do have some legit retards in here, tbh

It seems pretty obvious its a Lakers fan down to the SDSU angle on Kawhi. Post an article from Bruno's 'new' blog and it becomes really obvious.

Some people don't like the fact that some ideas and opinion are less valid and shouldn't be treated as equal. You get that cause you troll from that angle yourself quite often.

[Cry Havoc]

Why he took that fuckin' jumper is bizarre.

Could have been gassed. TP was working pretty hard last night, and looked VERY quick all evening. Might have come at the cost of his legs in the last 5 minutes.

[SpurPadre]

Thanks for the breakdown, midnight! Good stuff! And a lot of good takes in this thread overall!

[RD2191]

OP is trash just like Parker.

[Cry Havoc]

Side note: I want me some Wing Stop now.

[Silver&Black]

Side note: I want me some Wing Stop now.

http://i.imgur.com/MbI4Qa8.png

[ChumpDumper]

OP is trash just like Parker.Save that for the klown krew threads.

[bic50]

http://i.imgur.com/MbI4Qa8.png

:lol

[spurs10]

Thanks midnightpulp for this analysis. TP played a great game down the stretch and might have felt like he had the hot hand when he went for that shot. I'm guessing it will make the film session. As Manu said Affallo made a 3 off a lucky 'bounce' or we probably don't come down to the last second to get the win. I thought it probably did them good before going off on this b2b. Good win!

[spursfaninla]

OP is trash just like Parker.

:rolleyes

OP, thank you for raising the bar. Thoughtful analysis backed up with more than just your opinion or weak verbal jabs.

[Pauleta14]

Could have been gassed. TP was working pretty hard last night, and looked VERY quick all evening. Might have come at the cost of his legs in the last 5 minutes.

I think Parker answered that question quite honestly (props to the journalist who asked), he just got excited when Portzingis jumped at him after making a few buckets...

Just a stupid decision, it happens.

The "silver lining" is that he was probably relieved that the Spurs didn't lose because of this mistake and will surely learn the lesson.

It's been a long time they didn't have a close game, DWest acknowledged that they need to work on late game execution but didn't have a lot of opportunities...

[Nathan89]

The short bus is in a traffic jam all of a sudden.

[Robz4000]

One of the best ST minds doing best ST minds things. Great analysis.

[spurs10]

I think Parker answered that question quite honestly (props to the journalist who asked), he just got excited when Portzingis jumped at him after making a few buckets...

Just a stupid decision, it happens.

The "silver lining" is that he was probably relieved that the Spurs didn't lose because of this mistake and will surely learn the lesson.

It's been a long time they didn't have a close game, DWest acknowledged that they need to work on late game execution but didn't have a lot of opportunities...
Thanks Pauleta14 for the comment TP made, I didn't catch that. It's exactly what it looks like a 'heat of the moment' shot that ended up being a mistake. This game is played at lightning speed and mistakes get made.

[apalisoc_9]

Wow op you completely twisted my words. Teams arent gameplanning or scheming against it, they are gameplanning to make it the spurs gameplan. Its entirely two different things. I appreciate the effort but this is nothing but a play by play analysis of said particular plays.

Of course you dont want your PG to completly be reduced to a ball watcher and pf course PnR with him result in him getting looks but the issue in hand here is how the teams generate looks. Hes not.going to command double teams and as evident he had lopez twice on him because frankly they would rather have him try to win games.

Every gameplan is going generate looks. The issue in hand is that parker being the Focal is not how you would want the team to generate looks because he has the tendency to heroball as evident with the last poosession.


His pass to kawhi was a desperation pass.

Parker is basically one of the very few players alongside rose and kobe who have roles that is completly not alinged with their current abilities.

Of course the.

[AFMadison]

:rolleyes

OP, thank you for raising the bar. Thoughtful analysis backed up with more than just your opinion or weak verbal jabs.

[midnightpulp]

Wow op you completely twisted my words. Teams arent gameplanning or scheming against it, they are gameplanning to make it the spurs gameplan. Its entirely two different things. I appreciate the effort but this is nothing but a play by play analysis of said particular plays.

Of course you dont want your PG to completly be reduced to a ball watcher and pf course PnR with him result in him getting looks but the issue in hand here is how the teams generate looks. Hes not.going to command double teams and as evident he had lopez twice on him because frankly they would rather have him try to win games.

Every gameplan is going generate looks. The issue in hand is that parker being the Focal is not how you would want the team to generate looks because he has the tendency to heroball as evident with the last poosession.


His pass to kawhi was a desperation pass.

Parker is basically one of the very few players alongside rose and kobe who have roles that is completly not alinged with their current abilities.

Of course the.

You said in the other thread that opposing teams haven't been helping off their man to defend Parker in PnR sets, which usually results in an open jumper that teams have no problem giving Parker because of his supposedly average mid-range percentage. Your words:


By physically disallowing movement outside, teams have forced the spurs to rely on Parker to take manority of the shots late in the fourth. Its a pretty daring move. They are basically taking away the threat of Green-Ginobili-Leonard or whoever is the other big not screening and force san antonio to win games with a 34 year old.

That sounds like a scheme to me. I also didn't see this in the 4th Quarter of the Knicks game. The PnR was generating the looks the Spurs wanted. Also, point guards usually don't command double teams. They have a similar effect by forcing defense to collapse off their penetration, which Parker was doing.

Granted, this is the only game I carefully looked at in regard to the PnR. Since NY's frontline is oversized and relatively slow, the PnR will naturally be more effective against them than a team like Golden State, Houston, or even the Clippers who have speedier bigs.

Also not sure how that pass to Kawhi was "desperation." That has been a Spur bread-and-butter play since Bowen used to spot up in that corner. That play is even deadlier now since Kawhi is obviously on a different level offensively than Bowen.

Re: Parker's abilities. He's looked pretty good on drives this year, and he's shooting 57% from 16 and out. His abilities (thus far) are actually perfectly in line with his role at running the PnR. Concerns are always his health, since minor injuries greatly reduce his effectiveness.

We'll continue to evaluate as the season goes on. I'll bump this thread with more screen caps and analysis (I might take a look at the Houston loss again and see how we executed). The Knicks, admittedly, weren't the best opponent in this regard because it's easy to shred their big frontline with the PnR.

[pgardn]

Teams arent gameplanning or scheming against it, they are gameplanning to make it the spurs gameplan.

.

This is complete foolishness.

[SAGirl]

Good post, very informative
thanks for sharing.
:bobo

[YGWHI]

This play was also irritating. Kawhi had a clear pinch, and Parker refused to pass (in Parker's limited defense, when you see a giant like Lopez in front of you, that pass isn't as easy to make as it looks from our POV. Still, Parker could've ball faked and then hit Kawhi or something).

http://oi67.tinypic.com/30m0srd.jpg


Can't believe why it's so hard for Parker to pass the ball to Kawhi in the post, or recognize his favorable matchups.

In that game, Kawhi was guarded by Calderon at least in three possessions, and just in one he could get the ball.

The same in the 3rd quarter in Houston with Harden guarding him...and Beal...and Sessions...and Neto...

Five seasons and Parker can't recognize Kawhi advantage over small defenders...It's unbelievable that the Spurs film-game sessions don't show what Parker has done in those matchups.

[YGWHI]

Re: Parker's abilities. He's looked pretty good on drives this year, and he's shooting 57% from 16 and out. His abilities (thus far) are actually perfectly in line with his role at running the PnR. Concerns are always his health, since minor injuries greatly reduce his effectiveness.

Fortunately for the Spurs, Parker is still good at driving to the hoop, but he has not improved his court vision. In some situations, having a tough matchup, a night off, whatever, the team needs more playmaker skills from him, and certainly he's an initiator, not a facilitator on offense.

[midnightpulp]

Can't believe why it's so hard for Parker to pass the ball to Kawhi in the post, or recognize his favorable matchups.

In that game, Kawhi was guarded by Calderon at least in three possessions, and just in one he could get the ball.

The same in the 3rd quarter in Houston with Harden guarding him...and Beal...and Sessions...and Neto...

Five seasons and Parker can't recognize Kawhi advantage over small defenders...It's unbelievable that the Spurs film-game sessions don't show what Parker has done in those matchups.

I don't think it's selfishness. Parker has always had suspect court vision. Lopez probably had him spooked too much to try a pass. That said, I don't think Parker has been particularly "selfish" this season. Like I've stated all year, he's the least of our worries right now (he'll be a big worry if he gets banged up, though).

[YGWHI]

Parker has always had suspect court vision...he's the least of our worries

When he's off or have a tough matchup, he should be able to facilitate Kawhi/LMA offense.

This season we have watched nice pick and rolls/pops between LMA and him, but if he can't take advantage of Kawhi's mismatches, that's a real issue for the team.

[midnightpulp]

Now some clutch time analysis of the Houston game. I capped pretty much all key possessions that featured Parker and/or Kawhi.

Good result from the PnR here. Duncan got a mismatch in the post against Harden. There's also an option to kick it over to Kawhi for a corner 3 or drive.

http://oi63.tinypic.com/2co31n7.jpg

Off an LMA PnR. Parker took a banana route through the lane, drew a crowd, and generated an open look for LMA at the top of the key (LMA's sweet spot). Unfortunately, the pass was broken up. But defenses will make plays. Can't be results oriented.

http://oi64.tinypic.com/141jbth.jpg

It's not all good. Here's a shitty PnR play. I hate when the Spurs start a PnR on one side the floor. Spacing is always bad, and it usually forces hot potato between Parker and his picker. The last play of the game in which Parker hoisted a jumper over Porz started in a similar way (Parker did a get a driving lane that he didn't take in that scenario, but I don't see these strong side PnR plays generating much in the long run. Don't know why Pop/Parker/Whoever continues to call them). Maybe Leonard missed his assignment and didn't flash up to the top of the 3 point line? Looks like he would've had an open shot. Not sure. This play makes no sense to me.

http://oi65.tinypic.com/ohprnt.jpg

An "okay play." Clear out iso that gets Parker against Terry. Don't really like it against the Rockets with Dwight patrolling the paint. Resulted in a missed floater. Play should be used sparingly. One of those plays that kills "flow."

http://oi66.tinypic.com/24dj6tv.jpg

Great play here. This is what Kawhi fans want to see more of in this offense. Parker hit Kawhi early in the shot clock behind the 3 point line, so this set was obviously intended to be ran by Kawhi. It was a basic PnR between Duncan and Kawhi. Kawhi drew a trap, made a nice bounce pass to Duncan who walked it in for a layup. I want to see more of this between Kawhi and LMA, as well. And as I said in the other thread, if the Kawhi adds this to his game, the Spurs will have the luxury of 2 perimeter starters being able to run the offense, making the offense that much less predictable. I think Pop knows this, which is why we've been seeing Kawhi take a more active role in setting up plays lately.

http://oi67.tinypic.com/v73v49.jpg

I think this play was supposed to have Kawhi drive on Ariza. Parker hit him quick and Kawhi had Ariza in isolation with a driving lane (Howard wasn't in the paint yet). Inexplicably, Kawhi dribbled back to the left and passed it to Duncan in a tough spot. Nothing resulted here. Kawhi can be indecisive in these scenarios at times and starts to overdribble, which why I think the Spurs are slowly working him into more iso-set rather than just force-feeding him.

http://oi68.tinypic.com/20u381i.jpg

PnR between Duncan and Parker. Resulted in a wide open 15 footer that rimmed out. Again, I don't want to see these jumpers overused, but they do (Parker as a jumpshot threat) need to be established.

http://oi66.tinypic.com/11m6jyb.jpg

Good play here that got Kawhi a wide open 3 point look. Problem is, he didn't take it and opted for a pump fake/drive that resulted in nothing.

http://oi64.tinypic.com/21bnree.jpg

Parker wasn't a detriment (with his decision making. He didn't finish some wide open shots he should've, though) in crunch time in this game, either. Most of the bad plays (that I didn't cap) usually featured Green getting the ball early in the clock and then doing nothing with it.

Going forward, I'd like to see more Kawhi in the PnR, preferably with LMA. Having Parker and Kawhi (and Manu) all being able to generate offense off the PnR would be a huge boon to this offense, especially in crunch time.

[houston spurs fan]

^^^great takes bro. Even if people don't agree they should appreciate the effort

[Hoops Czar]

Good play here that got Kawhi a wide open 3 point look. Problem is, he didn't take it and opted for a pump fake/drive that resulted in nothing.

http://oi64.tinypic.com/21bnree.jpg



Good play here that got Kawhi a wide open 3 point look. Problem is, he didn't take it and opted for a pump fake/drive that resulted in nothing.

http://oi64.tinypic.com/21bnree.jpg

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://i.imgur.com/rD8yJIP.jpg
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

[dabom]

Hoops has so many fucking bad takes he retired so people could forget them. :lmao

[midnightpulp]

Good play here that got Kawhi a wide open 3 point look. Problem is, he didn't take it and opted for a pump fake/drive that resulted in nothing.

http://oi64.tinypic.com/21bnree.jpg

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://i.imgur.com/rD8yJIP.jpg
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Good "ignore" by Tony there. That would've been a tough cross court pass. As we see, the Spurs got a double switch off the play.

http://oi64.tinypic.com/xpued3.jpg

Much higher percentage situation than cross courting a pass to Kawhi. I also think Kawhi was doing some decoying there, as well. See how he drew Galloway out of the paint. He probably didn't expect the ball.

[TheGreatYacht]

Hoops has so many fucking bad takes he retired so people could forget them. :lmao
Lol nobody even acknowledges you :lmao

[Brazil]

Wow op you completely twisted my words. Teams arent gameplanning or scheming against it, they are gameplanning to make it the spurs gameplan. Its entirely two different things. I appreciate the effort but this is nothing but a play by play analysis of said particular plays.

Of course you dont want your PG to completly be reduced to a ball watcher and pf course PnR with him result in him getting looks but the issue in hand here is how the teams generate looks. Hes not.going to command double teams and as evident he had lopez twice on him because frankly they would rather have him try to win games.

Every gameplan is going generate looks. The issue in hand is that parker being the Focal is not how you would want the team to generate looks because he has the tendency to heroball as evident with the last poosession.


His pass to kawhi was a desperation pass.

Parker is basically one of the very few players alongside rose and kobe who have roles that is completly not alinged with their current abilities.

Of course the.

Speaking of twisting stuff... Point of mid is that these PnR are generating "good" looks meaning shots at high %. Parker is having good opportunities off those PnR and is converting at one most % of the league. Parker role is that sense is totally
aligned with his current abilities... A bonehead play that he recognized btw is not representative of how good those plays are.

now I'd like to see more PnR with Kawhi and LMA during games and late game situations... True... but adding that does not mean this Parker PnR is not good.

your whole argument is pretty vanilla if you ask me

[EVAY]

Good "ignore" by Tony there. That would've been a tough cross court pass. As we see, the Spurs got a double switch off the play.

http://oi64.tinypic.com/xpued3.jpg

Much higher percentage situation than cross courting a pass to Kawhi. I also think Kawhi was doing some decoying there, as well. See how he drew Galloway out of the paint. He probably didn't expect the ball.

This is one of the observations that I think a fair number of Kawhi player fans miss, and it has always surprised me that people seem to miss it. The fact that a player looks like he is 'calling for the ball' doesn't always mean that the ball is supposed to go to that player. Additionally, look at the Knicks defenders in that last screenshot. They are all focused on the ball in TP's hands, meaning, as you so clearly pointed out, that if Parker were to attempt a cross court pass to Kawhi it would likely get picked off. It is so often why the 'hockey assist' approach is so frequently used by the Spurs.

None of the above means that Parker has great court vision; he never really has and is unlikely to develop it now. It is simply not one of his talents. He doesn't have the height that a Manu has, nor does he process the game as quickly as someone like Manu does. Very few players on any team do. Suggestions that he is purposely avoiding or sabotaging any other player or the theam effort are just idiotic, though.

[BD24]

Don't hurt em Mid

[Macca76]

It seems pretty obvious its a Lakers fan down to the SDSU angle on Kawhi. Post an article from Bruno's 'new' blog and it becomes really obvious.

Some people don't like the fact that some ideas and opinion are less valid and shouldn't be treated as equal. You get that cause you troll from that angle yourself quite often.

What is Bruno's 'new' blog ?

[Macca76]

It seems pretty obvious its a Lakers fan down to the SDSU angle on Kawhi. Post an article from Bruno's 'new' blog and it becomes really obvious.

Some people don't like the fact that some ideas and opinion are less valid and shouldn't be treated as equal. You get that cause you troll from that angle yourself quite often.

What is Bruno's 'new' blog ?

[ElNono]

What is Bruno's 'new' blog ?

He used to be mentioned by Timothy Varner at 48 minutes of hell (see here (https://www.48minutesofhell.com/tiago-splitter-and-nando-de-colo)).

I don't know if that's what Fuzzy is talking about.

[YGWHI]

See how he drew Galloway out of the paint. He probably didn't expect the ball.

Parker has the ball in his hands, and Kawhi -6' 7'' 229 pounds- vs Galloway -6ft 2in 202 lb- on a mismatch...it's very likely that Kawhi doesn't expect the ball in those situations.

Finally something we can agree. :tu

[midnightpulp]

Parker has the ball in his hands, and Kawhi -6' 7'' 229 pounds- vs Galloway -6ft 2in 202 lb- on a mismatch...it's very likely that Kawhi doesn't expect the ball in those situations.

Finally something we can agree. :tu

The play I posted wasn't a post up. Do you really want Tony Parker (who is a suspect passer) making a difficult cross-court pass to Kawhi, when he has the switch on Lopez or the option of passing it into LMA who has Melo sealed on the low block?

Now, the situation where Kawhi had a Galloway pinned was a clear miss on Tony's part.

[YGWHI]

The play I posted wasn't a post up. Do you really want Tony Parker (who is a suspect passer) making a difficult cross-court pass to Kawhi, when he has the switch on Lopez or the option of passing it into LMA who has Melo sealed on the low block?

Our PG knows he has a big guarding him but also, one of our best offensive players has a favorable, so favorable matchup over a small defender.

Why should Parker attack the rim and take a contested shot over Lopez, when he can pass to Manu to Kawhi to attack the rim w/o protection.

Fast and precise passes, fast penetration against a small defender...not sound that bad.

[Hoops Czar]

Our PG knows he has a big guarding him but also, one of our best offensive players has a favorable, so favorable matchup over a small defender.

Why should Parker attack the rim and take a contested shot over Lopez, when he can pass to Manu to Kawhi to attack the rim w/o protection.

Fast and precise passes, fast penetration against a small defender...not sound that bad.

Because he's made a career out of it? I've never seen so much criticism over a made basket in my life. Parker pulled Lopez out of the paint. There was nobody there to contest his shot. You mean you'd choose Manu or Kawhi taking a midrange jumper over Parker getting an easy layup at the rim. I think we've seen that script before. IIRC, he did pass the ball to Manu and he passed it back. The Parker hate in this forum is reaching an all-time embarrassing level.

[ChumpDumper]

Because he's made a career out of it?:lol

It's like they haven't ever seen Parker play.

[YGWHI]

Because he's made a career out of it?
Because he's getting old and can be tired in the last seconds of a game?

Because the Spurs added an incredible offensive talent like LMA and developed Kawhi into one of the best...to not play 2016-Parker like he is still in his prime?


You mean you'd choose Manu or Kawhi taking a midrange jumper over Parker getting an easy layup at the rim.
Since when "fast penetration against a small defender" means midrange jumper?


The Parker hate in this forum is reaching an all-time embarrassing level.
Yeah...because I hate Parker now. My last post yesterday before logout was one saying how much he has ascended into every ranking this season.

I just want Parker to improve his court vision/playmaker skills, and exploit the LMA/Kawhi's matchups that he's missing per game, that's all.

[ChumpDumper]

How many is he missing per game?

[Neurosis]

Really good post OP. I think Parker was great in crunchtime against NYK but I also think there's much better options late game than long 2s.

That's the problem I have with all this. The PnR opens up a bunch of options and that's fine, but good defenses are giving the worst of those options - long mid-range jumpers.

People are saying those plays late game were good - but they weren't. They just worked out that time.

FG% fron 10-16 ft:

Parker: 41%
LMA: 39%

It's fine to have those shots as part of our offense if other options aren't there, but you can't possibly say that regularly running a set that results more often than not in a a 41% 2pt shot is a good choice in crunchtime.

Yeah those shots were open and they went, and the Knicks hit some absurd shots. Loose ball falls in Afflalo's lap for 3, Melo hits a tough fadeaway with Kawhi in his face. Afflalo contested 26ft.

The only real breakdown was that Porzingis slam and the Parker long 2 (honestly wtf was that).

Percentage wise though, 40% long 2s aren't how we'll win against teams who execute well down the stretch.

[SAGirl]

Because he's made a career out of it? I've never seen so much criticism over a made basket in my life. Parker pulled Lopez out of the paint. There was nobody there to contest his shot. You mean you'd choose Manu or Kawhi taking a midrange jumper over Parker getting an easy layup at the rim. I think we've seen that script before. IIRC, he did pass the ball to Manu and he passed it back. The Parker hate in this forum is reaching an all-time embarrassing level.
Ppl just want to see Kawhi with the ball more, that is why the criticism is on that play on which we scored and Tony had looked fir a shot for someone else b4. I don't know if they will ever be satisfied bc Tony missess things at times. He's been better at setting others up & picking his spots selectively but so long as incidents lime that happen ppl will go ballistic. We scored on the play anyways.

If anything the next time down court is when he needed to call a play out fir Kawhi instead of his jacked up shot over Porzinguis.

[midnightpulp]

Our PG knows he has a big guarding him but also, one of our best offensive players has a favorable, so favorable matchup over a small defender.

Why should Parker attack the rim and take a contested shot over Lopez, when he can pass to Manu to Kawhi to attack the rim w/o protection.

Fast and precise passes, fast penetration against a small defender...not sound that bad.

:lol There was no contested shot. Parker blew by Lopez with little problem.

To get the ball to Kawhi from that position would have forced him to make a long cross court pass that Affalo had a bead on (look at the above pic. Affalo is looking directly at Tony). And by the time the pass would've reached Kawhi, Galloway would've closed.

Only Lebron can really make that pass with any kind of pin point accuracy. I've seen Parker, Manu, etc throw the ball over the target's head in that situation many times.

Taking Lopez was the correct play here, especially since LMA had Melo sealed.

[dabom]

Only one player in the league can make that pass? What are you smoking. Fucking so easy, Kawhi is fucking eager to get the easy pass. :lmao

[dabom]

I've never seen how many people think that is a hard pass. They are fucking blind low IQ posters. :lmao

[midnightpulp]

Only one player in the league can make that pass? What are you smoking. Fucking so easy, Kawhi is fucking eager to get the easy pass. :lmao

The semen shield arrives.

You've never played basketball if you think that's a routine pass for a 6 foot guard.

[dabom]

The semen shield arrives.

You've never played basketball if you think that's a routine pass for a 6 foot guard.

You stupid fuck. That is the easiest pass of the game. What are you fucking watching dude?

[dabom]

I can already tell some people don't know shit about basketball when they make these weak claims to prove a point. I'm done. :lmao

[ChumpDumper]

You stupid fuck. That is the easiest pass of the game.:lol

[ChumpDumper]

I can already tell some people don't know shit about basketball when they make these weak claims to prove a point. I'm done. :lmaoPromise?

[dabom]

Promise?

Yeah

[ChumpDumper]

Yeahlol you can't even piss off correctly.

[midnightpulp]

Really good post OP. I think Parker was great in crunchtime against NYK but I also think there's much better options late game than long 2s.

That's the problem I have with all this. The PnR opens up a bunch of options and that's fine, but good defenses are giving the worst of those options - long mid-range jumpers.

People are saying those plays late game were good - but they weren't. They just worked out that time.

FG% fron 10-16 ft:

Parker: 41%
LMA: 39%

It's fine to have those shots as part of our offense if other options aren't there, but you can't possibly say that regularly running a set that results more often than not in a a 41% 2pt shot is a good choice in crunchtime.

Yeah those shots were open and they went, and the Knicks hit some absurd shots. Loose ball falls in Afflalo's lap for 3, Melo hits a tough fadeaway with Kawhi in his face. Afflalo contested 26ft.

The only real breakdown was that Porzingis slam and the Parker long 2 (honestly wtf was that).

Percentage wise though, 40% long 2s aren't how we'll win against teams who execute well down the stretch.

Two issues.

Those percentages are in a vacuum and don't delineate between contested and uncontested shots.

Parker's sweet spot is 17-19 feet, and most of the jumpers he takes generated off the PnR are within that distance. Currently, he's shooting .543 from 16 feet and out.
LMA is shooting 42% on catch and shoots and 46% from the elbow. Not ideal, but not terrible, either. I also expect those percentages to rise.

[midnightpulp]

You stupid fuck. That is the easiest pass of the game. What are you fucking watching dude?

No it isn't. But thanks for trying.

"Gib Kiwi da ball :cry"

[Neurosis]

Two issues.

Those percentages are in a vacuum and don't delineate between contested and uncontested shots.

Parker's sweet spot is 17-19 feet, and most of the jumpers he takes generated off the PnR are within that distance. Currently, he's shooting .543 from 16 feet and out.
LMA is shooting 42% on catch and shoots and 46% from the elbow. Not ideal, but not terrible, either. I also expect those percentages to rise.

Good point on LMA's stats.

I think the Parker one is a bit of an anomaly though because his role is different to previous years. His career average for 16-22 feet is 41%. He might be shooting 54% this year but I think that comes as a result of the fact he's less of a focal point and often that shot comes in the flow of the offense as opposed to a shot off the dribble in a PnR situation.

I'm still skeptical of midrange jumpers. Yeah they're "okay" and a needed part of the team's offense. In the clutch though I'd really like to see some high-low action and exploiting mismatches in the post. Not every play, Parker PnR is fine but we're missing a massive chunk of where our nornally great offense comes from.

[Brazil]

None of the above means that Parker has great court vision; he never really has and is unlikely to develop it now.

this idea is quite common about Spurs fans and is absolutely not true tbh... Parker is playing along side Manu who is probably the goat of court vision and another highly talented dude in Boris, so it does make Parker look pedestrian in that regard. Reality is Parker even just focusing on PG position has an above average court vision not nash, paul or manu court vision but still better than most of his peers.

[EVAY]

this idea is quite common about Spurs fans and is absolutely not true tbh... Parker is playing along side Manu who is probably the goat of court vision and another highly talented dude in Boris, so it does make Parker look pedestrian in that regard. Reality is Parker even just focusing on PG position has an above average court vision not nash, paul or manu court vision but still better than most of his peers.

Well you may be quite right in that observation. Tbh, he is most often compared to the very players you mentioned, each of whom is well known for their court vision. There may be a distinction without a difference here in me saying that Parker has never really had great court vision and you saying that while he is not as good as Manu, Boris, Nash or Paul, he does have "above average" vision, or better than his peers. I think it remains possible that he is 'above average for his peers' but 'not great'.

I think I mentioned in my original comment that no one else has court vision as good as Manu's. He is so far above everybody else (except maybe for Boris, but Boris so seldom plays the guard position I sort of take him out of the running on those comparisons) that TP is always going to look poorer in comparison.

[Brazil]

Well you may be quite right in that observation. Tbh, he is most often compared to the very players you mentioned, each of whom is well known for their court vision. There may be a distinction without a difference here in me saying that Parker has never really had great court vision and you saying that while he is not as good as Manu, Boris, Nash or Paul, he does have "above average" vision, or better than his peers. I think it remains possible that he is 'above average for his peers' but 'not great'.

I think I mentioned in my original comment that no one else has court vision as good as Manu's. He is so far above everybody else (except maybe for Boris, but Boris so seldom plays the guard position I sort of take him out of the running on those comparisons) that TP is always going to look poorer in comparison.

Point taken tbh on the disctintion great vs. good, you actually said great... you did not say he has a poor court vision.

If you compare with Manu, Nash, Paul... that set the highest standard of court vision, true he is not great. If you compare to the average nba player joe... Parker has a great court vision, he is not going to make laser passes or no looking stuff between the legs or see things before others but he is very sound for a PG, his bad passes % has always been among the best, his tov / assist is more than solid, he is always on top hockey assists player... In transition he is questionable at time.. true but on half court he rarely makes a bad decision. He has always been praised by players and organization about his capacity to put his team mates on good position.

He has not a flashy court vision but a very consistent, sound and efficient one. On that he has great court vision fundamentals

[YGWHI]

Taking Lopez was the correct play here, especially since LMA had Melo sealed.


Ppl just want to see Kawhi with the ball more

To me, this isn't the problem, if he has the ball or not, it's about to find ways to exploit LMA/Kawhi matchups.
If the Spurs would have exploited the Dudley-LMA in Washington or Kawhi-Harden in the 3rd quarter in Houston, it's likely they wouldn't have lost those games.

LMA had Melo, Kawhi being guarded by Galloway...in that play or any other play, our guards should try to find the right way to feed them instead of going iso with mixed results.

[SAGirl]

To me, this isn't the problem, if he has the ball or not, it's about to find ways to exploit LMA/Kawhi matchups.
If the Spurs would have exploited the Dudley-LMA in Washington or Kawhi-Harden in the 3rd quarter in Houston, it's likely they wouldn't have lost those games.

LMA had Melo, Kawhi being guarded by Galloway...in that play or any other play, our guards should try to find the right way to feed them instead of going iso with mixed results.
This particular play Tony did attempt to get the ball to LMA, and also passed to Manu to see if a lob was there and MAnu reversed the ball back to him. Obviously Melo was not stagnant like in the photo. He's a strong guy and was fighting to prevent that pass. That is why on this particular play I can't ram on Tony. Kawhi was open, but it was briefly, the pass was risky and LMA had a good shot, and so did Tony. There were multiple options there and Tony' s choice wasn't a bad one.

If you are criticising some other games or plays that is another issue and he does miss things for others when he's on the attack for himself. It's not happening all game, but he does have mental fart moments when he will get tunnel vision. The journey through the season is for him to find a balance. In this game the play that was problematic was the contested long 2 off the dribble. He got in a roll scoring consecutively an jacked up a bad shot. Those are the moments he needs to minimize.

[picnroll]

The way the play evolved and the floor was spaced far and away the best option was Parker driving to the basket. He knew he could leave Brooks in the dust and that Aldridge was positioned to seal Melo. Only other person that could have remotely closed on Parker was Calderon who was covering Green in the opposite corner and he would have gotten to Parker just in time to give Parker an and one.

You don't bust your hump getting a mismatch switch, Brooks on Parker Melo on Aldridge to make a much higher risk lower probability cross court pass to Kawhi for a rushed three or rushed drive. That was one of the Spurs easiest baskets all night.

[Cry Havoc]

I can already tell some people don't know shit about basketball when they make these weak claims to prove a point. I'm done. :lmao

And everyone in the forum can tell that you've never played basketball a day in your life.

[dabom]

And everyone in the forum can tell that you've never played basketball a day in your life.

I've played basketball more than you but that isn't the fucking topic you stupid fuck. You obviously don't even watch basketball if you think that's not an easy pass.

[ChumpDumper]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ew43xaosmnw/VFIB5sibUvI/AAAAAAAACJ0/__SB2I3xo1o/s1600/pigeon-amour.gif

[Cry Havoc]

I've played basketball more than you but that isn't the fucking topic you stupid fuck. You obviously don't even watch basketball if you think that's not an easy pass.

k.

[Macca76]

He used to be mentioned by Timothy Varner at 48 minutes of hell (see here (https://www.48minutesofhell.com/tiago-splitter-and-nando-de-colo)).

I don't know if that's what Fuzzy is talking about.

Thanks !

[Chinook]

Absolutely crazy that Parker is getting slammed for taking Lopez on that play.

:cry Kawhi had a mismatch :cry

Parker had a bigger one, STFU.