What type of career would Manu/Tony have had as the consensus #1 without Tim? [Archive]

Kawhitstorm

01-12-2016, 07:33 PM

After looking at ESPN top 10 All-Time point guards list & seeing how high Chris Paul/Curry have ALREADY been put on a pedestal, it got me thinking about how Manu/Tony would have fared if they had to carry a team like Chris Paul in New Orleans.

Off the top of my head, a player that reminds me of Tony the most is Kevin Johnson as far as scoring efficiently by using speed to get to the rim & shooting mid-range jumpers (3s on rare occasions). Tony b/w 2012-14 put up similar numbers per 100 possession although Kevin Johnson had a court vision similar to Chris Paul & was a beast in the playoffs (when healthy).

Current player: John Wall (Tony has an inferior court vision but better mid-range)

As far as Manu, Latrell Sprewell in Golden State is the closest thing I could think of (esp. 96-97) as far as being a fierce competitor, wanting to take the big shots, being a excellent slasher while also dropping bombs from outside & the ability to be a playmaker from the 2 guard position. Sprewell/Manu are also about similar as far as their physical attributes. You also had Penny but he was lanky, a postup player & not a very good shooter from outside.

Current Player: Jame Harden (Manu was less physically imposing & didn't have as good a handle plus Harden is a better flopper:lol)

100%duncan

01-12-2016, 07:39 PM

Both 2nd round fodders. Might make the wcf but thats it. In the east though, might make the finals...

Kawhitstorm

01-12-2016, 07:48 PM

Both 2nd round fodders. Might make the wcf but thats it. In the east though, might make the finals...

Joe Johnson status?

100%duncan

01-12-2016, 07:59 PM

Joe Johnson status?

Joe johnson was an overpaid scrub imho. Both of them will have a legit window as one of the best players in the league due to their stats being inflated as the number 1 option. They will be regarded as those players who were good enough but didnt have the team to win it all.

daslicer

01-12-2016, 08:00 PM

They would have made it to a few all-star games but would have never gotten further then the second round.

Obstructed_View

01-12-2016, 08:08 PM

They'd both have far better per-game stats, would be locks for the hall of fame, and would both have shorter careers.

Kidd K

01-12-2016, 08:18 PM

Joe Johnson status?

Joe Johnson is really overrated. He's one of those guys that scores a good amount because he's on a team with mediocre scorers so he gets a lot of FGAs. Meanwhile coasts on D' and doesn't play that well as a 5 man team. Lots of inefficient solo ball. So he looks good but it doesn't help his team win more games necessarily.

Manu probably wouldn't have worked as a #1 due to being injury prone. Parker would have been one of those 23-25 PPG players on a team that doesn't go anywhere. Both players aren't #1s. They're #2's at best, and ideally share #2 status and have a real #1 lead them as Duncan did.

Old School 44

01-12-2016, 08:45 PM

Manu would be the Latino Michael Jordan.

Kawhitstorm

01-12-2016, 08:53 PM

Joe Johnson is really overrated. He's one of those guys that scores a good amount because he's on a team with mediocre scorers so he gets a lot of FGAs. Meanwhile coasts on D' and doesn't play that well as a 5 man team. Lots of inefficient solo ball. So he looks good but it doesn't help his team win more games necessarily.

Manu probably wouldn't have worked as a #1 due to being injury prone. Parker would have been one of those 23-25 PPG players on a team that doesn't go anywhere. Both players aren't #1s. They're #2's at best, and ideally share #2 status and have a real #1 lead them as Duncan did.

They would probably be a better version Derozan/Lowry which would be good for the 2nd best team in the East. If you swapped them for Billups/Hamilton they should able to replicate their success during their prime years.

Brazil

01-12-2016, 09:39 PM

Both would have a pretty solid career too but with probably no rings

TheSullyMonster

01-12-2016, 09:39 PM

The better question is what kind of career Manu would've had if he could stay healthy.

BSfromTX

01-12-2016, 09:44 PM

Old School 44

01-12-2016, 09:47 PM

Lol...Sean keeps wanting to call Andre Drummond DeAndre Jordan.

Old School 44

01-12-2016, 09:50 PM

Lol...Sean keeps wanting to call Andre Drummond DeAndre Jordan.
lol....wrong thread

Kawhitstorm

01-12-2016, 09:55 PM

Latrell spreewell? He was good, but no where near the bb iq, court vision, or work ethic of manu.

i could see manu being similar to a poor man's magic.. Manu lacks the size and most likely the longevity.... Not sure how he would have done playing 35 minutes... Which adds the question: who is their coach? Because Pop would still have limited their minutes in similar fashion

MAGIC?:lmao Magic was a postup point guard & was NEVER known as a slasher.:lol The closest thing to Magic was Penny Hardaway. If we are talking about legends then Manu is a poorman's Pistol Pete.

BTW Sprewell in Golden State was a more undercontrol/higher Bball IQ/less freakish athlete version of Russell Westbrook.

Q2wSwxOj5EA

TMTTRIO

01-12-2016, 10:04 PM

Would Manu still be a HOF if he didn't win anything with the Spurs?

BSfromTX

01-12-2016, 10:07 PM

What does posting up have to do with it? I feel like manu makes a team better much like magic did... I'm not saying spreewell wasn't good, just no where near the mental player Manu is...

Magic was a guard... The question wasn't about style. I interpreted it as how they would have impacted their teams and likely heavier use... I believe had manu been THE guy, he would have been used much like he was '05-'07. He is a facilitator and a player that does a ton of little things to win a game, much like magic... Spree was a true competitor like manu, but was not nearly as smart and had a much bigger ego...

DAF86

01-12-2016, 10:12 PM

With the right guys around Manu could have lead a pretty damn good team in the nba. Probably not a championship team but I could see him leading a team to the nba finals ala Reggie Miller, Gary Payton, Jason Kidd, etc.

Manu is great at one of the most important requisites a franchise player should have: making his teammates better.

Doctor J

01-13-2016, 12:04 AM

MAGIC?:lmao Magic was a postup point guard & was NEVER known as a slasher.:lol The closest thing to Magic was Penny Hardaway. If we are talking about legends then Manu is a poorman's Pistol Pete.

BTW Sprewell in Golden State was a more undercontrol/higher Bball IQ/less freakish athlete version of Russell Westbrook.

Q2wSwxOj5EA

Agreed.

But Manu is a far better competitor than Pistol ever was, and more unselfish player than Pistol by far.

SAGirl

01-13-2016, 02:00 AM

Manu is great at one of the most important requisites a franchise player should have: making his teammates better.

I kind of tend to agree on this. Specially bc many talented young players in the league cannot separate themselves from the pack nowadays until they learn this. I would name names, but will get a lot of hate in my back that is not deserving of a thread talking about Tony and Manu's careers.

Probably the knock on Manu is that if you had him be the guy night in and night out and bear a heavy minutes burden, he could have broken down earlier and sooner in his career, or more dramatically. But he would have had a flashy couple of years at least, and blazed high to the playoffs anyways.

kaji157

01-13-2016, 02:43 AM

Put Manu as the number one option of the 2004 2005 pistons and he would have win it all.

Kidd K

01-13-2016, 02:55 AM

They would probably be a better version Derozan/Lowry which would be good for the 2nd best team in the East. If you swapped them for Billups/Hamilton they should able to replicate their success during their prime years.

They're better than those two, come on man. Manu is significantly more intelligent than DeRozen and a much better playmaker. Lowry is just a 3pt chucker. . .scores pretty much the opposite way TP does. I think if TP or Manu still had Pop but not eachother or Duncan they would have higher stats than they had and still be a .500 team but no titles and no playoff or 50+win streak.

Do you really think they're that bad?

kaji157

01-13-2016, 03:01 AM

They're better than those two, come on man. Manu is significantly more intelligent than DeRozen and a much better playmaker. Lowry is just a 3pt chucker. . .scores pretty much the opposite way TP does. I think if TP or Manu still had Pop but not eachother or Duncan they would have higher stats than they had and still be a .500 team but no titles and no playoff or 50+win streak.

Do you really think they're that bad?

What i was saying, put 2005 Manu as Pistons main option and remove hamilton, and they would have win it all. Spurs -Manu + Hamilton would have lost to Pistons +Manu - Hamilton.

Mouth is Bleeding

01-13-2016, 03:27 AM

BillMc

01-13-2016, 06:46 AM

Both 2nd round fodders. Might make the wcf but thats it. In the east though, might make the finals...

So they'd be basically as good as Chris Paul and Steve Nash. :lol

kuato

01-13-2016, 07:56 AM

You are underestimating what Manu brings to a team. Ginobili improves any team he is on, look at his records, you can't compare Sprewell with Manu, no way.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m55i1asKz01qbq7sk.gif

Seventyniner

01-13-2016, 09:09 AM

Lol...Sean keeps wanting to call Andre Drummond DeAndre Jordan.

Sean Elliott went to Detroit? I thought he refused to do any broadcasts there.

DAF86

01-13-2016, 11:41 AM

So they'd be basically as good as Chris Paul and Steve Nash. :lol

Or Ray Allen, Luis Scola (got to the second round with the Rockets and took the champion Lakers to 7, tbh), Joe Johnson and a bunch of other players that have made it to the second round as the number one option of a team.

Kawhitstorm

01-13-2016, 01:36 PM

Or Ray Allen, Luis Scola (got to the second round with the Rockets and took the champion Lakers to 7, tbh), Joe Johnson and a bunch of other players that have made it to the second round as the number one option of a team.

Ray Allen & Paul Pierce were in the conference Finals. The 2001 Bucks got jobbed by the refs against the Sixers & the 2002 Celtics were up 2-1 on the Nets.

DAF86

01-13-2016, 01:39 PM

Ray Allen & Paul Pierce were in the conference Finals. The 2001 Bucks got jobbed by the refs against the Sixers & the 2002 Celtics were up 2-1 on the Nets.

So was Nash for that matter.

Kawhitstorm

01-13-2016, 01:55 PM

SPREWELL??? DEROZAN??? Those are terrible comparisons and inefficient players compared to the elite efficiency of Manu.

In Basketball Prospectus Kevin Pelton would always list the most similar players strictly by numbers in each player profile and Manu's company was always elite with even friggin LARRY BIRD showing up. In 12/13 (the last edition) the others where Clyde Drexler, Jeff Hornacek and then maybe the less flattering Sam Cassel.

For Parker the most similar was Sam Cassell as well, Kevin Johnson, Rod Strickland and Sherman Douglas.

Are we talking about JUST stats or similarities in the style of play.

There wasn't much similarity b/w Bird & Manu just as much as there wasn't much similarity b/w Tony & Cassell.:lol If you are going to talk about win-share & championship then that has more to do w/ their supporting cast than the players in a vacuum.

Yeah, Manu was better than Derozan but I brought up Derozan/Lowry b/c there are the only All-Star backcourt that I can compare to Tony/Manu as opposed to say Klay/Curry.

Sprewell on the other hand was once the best shooting guard in the league when he was in Golden State. His career w/ the Warriors might as well be labeled as the "lost tapes" b/c they were never on national TV & the Warriors were dwarfed by the Lakers along w/ not being a playoff team. The guy the Spurs faced in the 99 Finals was pretty fuckin' good & he was playing in a shitty half court offense that didn't suit his game. Once Ewing got injured in the ECF clincher, Van Gundy put the ball in his hands & he went beast mode in the Finals against the best defensive team of that era.

Again, Sprewell in Golden State was a more undercontrol/higher Bball IQ/less freakish athlete version of Russell Westbrook. Manu can't be compared to Clyde b/c you are talking about a guy who took a team to TWO Finals; I would roll w/ Penny than guys like Clyde who had the longevity & sustained success.

Jeff Hornacek is a good comparison for Manu's career as a 3rd wheel but he was NEVER as good as wing-man Manu circa 2005 or as the #1 option circa 2011. Jason Terry is probably the Jeff Hornacek of his era.

Kawhitstorm

01-13-2016, 01:56 PM

So was Nash for that matter.

Which is why they shouldn't be lumped w/ Chris Fall....that would be Joe Johnson.

DAF86

01-13-2016, 01:59 PM

Which is why they shouldn't be lumped w/ Chris Fall....that would be Joe Johnson.

I was just answering to that guy that named those two toghether.

Kawhitstorm

01-13-2016, 02:01 PM

You are underestimating what Manu brings to a team. Ginobili improves any team he is on, look at his records, you can't compare Sprewell with Manu, no way.

There is a good reason why Pop tried numerous times to acquire Sprewell. He was crazy kind of like Stephen Jackson but he was a fierce competitor like Manu.

- http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/163215/Sprewell-to-Spurs-remains-a-rumor
- http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37349

DAF86

01-13-2016, 02:07 PM

Manu was drafted in 1999. That year the Bulls had the number 1 pick and selected Elton Brand. I think it's fair to say Manu >>> Brand. Do you imagine Manu playing in a big market like Chicago in the leastern conference with guys like Hinrinch, Ben Gordon, Deng, Nocioni, Sefolosha and Tyson Chandler? I think he could have made some noise.

el contusione

01-13-2016, 02:33 PM

The better question is what kind of career Manu would've had if he could stay healthy.
I always wondered about it as well. There was one year where Manu was ranked 9th in MVP race. Imagine a healthy Manu in his prime for a minimum of 5 years. If not MVP he would be 1st team for sure.

MaNu4Tres

01-13-2016, 02:48 PM

There hasn't been a player like Manu..... ever at the SG position.

LOL @ Sprewell comparison.

TDfan2007

01-13-2016, 03:16 PM

Difficult to say, tbh. In their early years both players really benefited from all of the attention that TD got. You never know how their development would have panned out had they not been in a situation with a superstar and less pressure to produce consistently.

I'd say that Manu was a more polished player upon entering the league than Tony though, so he probably would have figured out his game anywhere. He just wouldn't have been nearly as efficient, and his career would have been much shorter. Not sure who to compare that to...

Tony was really raw when he came into the league and was not at all ready be a #1 option. Also, can't forget that Chip England had a lot to do with Tony's ascension to all-star status when he helped Tony develop that mid-range J.

Having said all of this, you put prime Manu on any team as a #1, and that team will be tough to handle. Prime Manu could do it all except for post up and would have almost certainly had more ASGs as a #1. Prime Tony as a #1 would have probably been a multiple all star, too, but not as effective as Manu.

TDfan2007

01-13-2016, 03:16 PM

There hasn't been a player like Manu..... ever at the SG position.

LOL @ Sprewell comparison.

:lol was that a serious comparison?

MB20

01-13-2016, 03:21 PM

Just for the good memories...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L_PFwsBqik

100%duncan

01-13-2016, 08:23 PM

So they'd be basically as good as Chris Paul and Steve Nash. :lol

Yup. Its not a bad thing imho, not every star is a #1 on a legitimate championship team.

tonight...you

01-13-2016, 08:26 PM

lol....wrong thread
Lol- still awesome.
Props.

tonight...you

01-13-2016, 08:28 PM

Kawhitstorm

01-13-2016, 08:37 PM

:lol was that a serious comparison?

There hasn't been a player like Manu..... ever at the SG position.

LOL @ Sprewell comparison.

Did you guys watch Sprewell in Golden State?:rolleyes He wasn't bad in the 99 Finals against the Spurs either. There are a bunch of HOFers who can't say they were the best player on a Finals team or even made it to the Finals.

Muphuckas who never ACTUALLY watched him playing in Golden State acting like he was Michael Finley or some shyt just like folks who claim Manu was a role player b/c they never saw him pre-2011.

2nd year Spree:

mAi5O03AnYQ

TpC-EkcU8so

Spree dueling w/ MVP Iverson better than Kobe in the Finals:

2oU3gBRzR04

Spree making it rain:

9jhjzuqQA7k

Spree in the 99 Finals:

3CEdFdFkpIU

Spree destroying Pierce/Joe Johnson:

PWdlPR8nGiY

Spree outdueling Ray Allen:

YJQutU_uFP4

Spree shutting down Vince:

31RE8eag_ks

Past prime Spree outplaying the same Kobe in the 2004 WCF:

wk4zK7_QopM

Past prime Spree destroying Doug Christie:

VDk59_ns2sE

Kawhitstorm

01-13-2016, 08:44 PM

D

Having said all of this, you put prime Manu on any team as a #1, and that team will be tough to handle. Prime Manu could do it all except for post up and would have almost certainly had more ASGs as a #1. Prime Tony as a #1 would have probably been a multiple all star, too, but not as effective as Manu.

You have a contemporary player in Wade who was Manu on steroids but he couldn't get past the 1st rd in the East. You also have guys like T-Mac/Vince who couldn't put a team on their back like Tim/Shaq/LeBron come playoff time so as good as Manu was it would be hard to argue he could carry a team.

Maybe if he played w/ a couple borderline All-Stars like Rose during his MVP season then he could probably get them to the ECF or maybe the 2nd rd in the West kind of like Ray Allen in 2005.

DAF86

01-13-2016, 10:45 PM

You don't need all-stars, just a good assambled team. Heck, get the Golden Generation Argie team and Manu could have put on work in the NBA as a lead guy.

kaji157

01-13-2016, 11:09 PM

You have a contemporary player in Wade who was Manu on steroids but he couldn't get past the 1st rd in the East. You also have guys like T-Mac/Vince who couldn't put a team on their back like Tim/Shaq/LeBron come playoff time so as good as Manu was it would be hard to argue he could carry a team.

Maybe if he played w/ a couple borderline All-Stars like Rose during his MVP season then he could probably get them to the ECF or maybe the 2nd rd in the West kind of like Ray Allen in 2005.

As i said before, put him on the pistons team and he wins the chip.
Manu has always been a team player, you put him on a TEAM and he puts it over the top. Best example is Argentina´s Team, not great grat players, but enough with Manu as the leader.

Clipper Nation

01-13-2016, 11:26 PM

Porker would have been out of the league by year 3. He'd have a Jonny Flynn type of career.

BSfromTX

01-13-2016, 11:35 PM

Kawhitstorm

01-14-2016, 12:06 AM

As i said before, put him on the pistons team and he wins the chip.
Manu has always been a team player, you put him on a TEAM and he puts it over the top. Best example is Argentina´s Team, not great grat players, but enough with Manu as the leader.

Rip Hamilton wasn't even better than Klay Thompson so that isn't saying much, thb. Bradley Beal is basically the modern day version of Rip.

Kawhitstorm

01-14-2016, 12:16 AM

You don't need all-stars, just a good assambled team. Heck, get the Golden Generation Argie team and Manu could have put on work in the NBA as a lead guy.

I said BOARDER-LINE all-stars (Deng/Noah/Boozer).

If you compare the 2010-11 Bulls roster to the Golden Generation:

-Scola>Boozer
-Nocioni=Deng
-Noah>Oberto
-Hermann>Taj
-Delfino>Brewer
-Pepe>Korver
-Prigoni> Bogans

So that team was loaded & 22 yr old Derick Rose was carrying a bunch of bums, tbh.

ElNono

01-14-2016, 12:17 AM

You have a contemporary player in Wade who was Manu on steroids but he couldn't get past the 1st rd in the East.

???

Wade won a championship in 2006 with a completely done Shaq, Antoine Walker and Jason Kapono...

ElNono

01-14-2016, 12:20 AM

Pepe Sanchez better than Korver? :lmao

And Prigioni didn't play in Athens, IIRC

skulls138

01-14-2016, 12:21 AM

Manu on steroids? Thats an impossibility.

Kawhitstorm

01-14-2016, 12:22 AM

You also have to remember that Pop held the reigns tight on both manu and Tony early on... I don't think it's crazy to think manu could have had 5-7 years at 35 min per game and stay relatively healthy. I do believe he would have at some point learned when to dial it down..

bottom line:

this is forum amazes me with how much manu is under rated. I suffered through the 80s and 90's waiting for that player that would do the things manu does. You can't explain it... I actually think bird is the best comparison other than the trash talking. Manu gives everyone on the team significantly more confidence and fears nothing.

Spree was was a great Player and fairly under rated, but bball iq, efficiency and intangibles plus wining pedigree it's not close IMHO

Bruh, Wade does everything Manu can do except make 3s consistently & he had a freakish athleticism to go along with it. You also had per-injury Penny who was the closest thing to Magic & Grant Hill who was the closest thing to Pippen.

If a player doesn't have an unstoppable postup game & rebound the ball very well then you can't compare him to Bird.:lol Pistol Pete is the much closer to Manu than guys like Magic/Bird.

Kawhitstorm

01-14-2016, 12:23 AM

Pepe Sanchez better than Korver? :lmao

And Prigioni didn't play in Athens, IIRC

Bruh, Kyle Korver in 2011 was Anthony Morrow status :lol & Prigioni is part of the Golden Generation (it's just not Athens).

Kawhitstorm

01-14-2016, 12:26 AM

???

Wade won a championship in 2006 with a completely done Shaq, Antoine Walker and Jason Kapono...

Bruh, I'm OBVIOUSLY talking about him carrying a team for an ENTIRE season (i.e 2008-09) not a freakin' series. Shaq played like an all-star in ECF against none other than Ben Wallace but people forget b/c Wade memorized everyone in the Finals.:lol

ElNono

01-14-2016, 12:28 AM

Bruh, Kyle Korver in 2011 was Anthony Morrow status :lol & Prigioni is part of the Golden Generation (it's just not Athens).

Bruh, Pepe Sanchez tried to play in the NBA and couldn't even make it in the league. He was a decent PG in Temple, but not much more than that.

Kawhitstorm

01-14-2016, 12:28 AM

Manu on steroids? Thats an impossibility.

Just look at how he trashed the Pistons in the 2005 ECF before he got injured (that's the MAIN reason why the Pistons won) then finished them off in the 2006 ECF. Wade in 2008-09 was right there with PEAK LeBron.

Kawhitstorm

01-14-2016, 12:30 AM

Bruh, Pepe Sanchez tried to play in the NBA and couldn't even make it in the league. He was a decent PG in Temple, but not much more than that.

Pepe was a GREAT system player, he didn't have any issues outplaying NBA players on Team Argentina like Carlos Arroyo torching NBA MVPs in FIBA.:lol

ElNono

01-14-2016, 12:31 AM

Bruh, I'm OBVIOUSLY talking about him carrying a team for an ENTIRE season (i.e 2008-09) not a freakin' series. Shaq played like an all-star in ECF against none other than Ben Wallace but people forget b/c Wade memorized everyone in the Finals.:lol

Wade lead the 2006 Heat in minutes, assists, steals, points (had as many as both Shaq and Walker combined)...

Kawhitstorm

01-14-2016, 12:35 AM

Wade lead the 2006 Heat in minutes, assists, points (had as many as both Shaq and Walker combined)...

That has to do w/ him having a top 5 All-Time FINALS performance. Shaq wasn't even getting 10 shots a game b/c they were pick-n-rolling the Mavs to death.:lol The Pistons were the best team that season & Shaq was a big part for why they didn't make it to the Finals.:rolleyes

You argument is boarding the "Tony carried the Spurs" against the Cavs narrative ...:wakeup

ElNono

01-14-2016, 12:38 AM

That has to do w/ him having a top 5 All-Time FINALS performance. Shaq wasn't even getting 10 shots a game b/c they were pick-n-rolling the Mavs to death.:lol The Pistons were the best team that season & Shaq was a big part for why they didn't make it to the Finals.:rolleyes

Those are regular season numbers... He carried that team...

You can just take the L already on this, it's ok, we know... :lol

Kawhitstorm

01-14-2016, 12:41 AM

Those are regular season numbers... He carried that team...

You can just take the L already on this, it's ok, we know... :lol

Shaq averaged 20/9 & Wade averaged 27/6 so I don't see how Wade is carrying the team unless you mean Shaq playing 59 games but that also happened when he played w/ the Lakers so I guess Kobe carried Shaq too.:rolleyes

In any case, the 2006 Pistons & Ben Wallace would beg to differ besides folks would have said that Tony carried Tim in 2012-13 if he didn't get injured.:lol

aal04

01-14-2016, 04:39 AM

Aint no one under 6'7 going to lead their team to a ship without a quality all-star big.

Kawhitstorm

01-14-2016, 05:48 AM

Aint no one under 6'7 going to lead their team to a ship without a quality all-star big.

Last I checked Draymond wasn't an all-star last season.:lol

aal04

01-14-2016, 06:37 AM

Last I checked Draymond wasn't an all-star last season.:lol

What I meant was you arent going to carry your team to a ring unless youre 6'7+. GSW wasnt carried last year, they got lucky with opponent injuries and had 3 legit All-Stars.

Only people to "carry" would be Dirk 11, Tim 03, Hakeem 90s.

kaji157

01-14-2016, 06:40 AM

Lol at a lot of the explanation here just to discredit the.manu.
The threads point is simple. How would tony and manu would be without prime tim.

The variable here is, same resourses as tim did. Pop, the spurs, a very smart organozation around them, an all star to start their xareers alongside. Two all stars and potential n1 options around either of them for the remainder of their careers, that took paycuts for the betterment of the team.

I thinl, that if manu is given all timmys had he could have competed for a ring and maybe win it.

diego

01-14-2016, 08:54 AM

Just like any other star Guards, they would need good teammates and coaching, good health and a little luck to have playoff success.individually no question they would be good, in manu's case especially but for both they would get a nice bump in their stats.

Manu's health is completely overblown. Look at Wade, Westbrook, rose, PG, even Leonard. You get injured quite a bit playing aggressive, it's normal.

TDfan2007

01-14-2016, 09:03 AM

Did you guys watch Sprewell in Golden State?:rolleyes He wasn't bad in the 99 Finals against the Spurs either. There are a bunch of HOFers who can't say they were the best player on a Finals team or even made it to the Finals.

Muphuckas who never ACTUALLY watched him playing in Golden State acting like he was Michael Finley or some shyt just like folks who claim Manu was a role player b/c they never saw him pre-2011.

2nd year Spree:

mAi5O03AnYQ

TpC-EkcU8so

Spree dueling w/ MVP Iverson better than Kobe in the Finals:

2oU3gBRzR04

Spree making it rain:

9jhjzuqQA7k

Spree in the 99 Finals:

3CEdFdFkpIU

Spree destroying Pierce/Joe Johnson:

PWdlPR8nGiY

Spree outdueling Ray Allen:

YJQutU_uFP4

Spree shutting down Vince:

31RE8eag_ks

Past prime Spree outplaying the same Kobe in the 2004 WCF:

wk4zK7_QopM

Past prime Spree destroying Doug Christie:

VDk59_ns2sE

Not saying that Spree was bad, just that he played a much different brand of basketball than Manu and impacted the game differently.

DAF86

01-14-2016, 11:29 AM

Just look at how he trashed the Pistons in the 2005 ECF before he got injured (that's the MAIN reason why the Pistons won) then finished them off in the 2006 ECF. Wade in 2008-09 was right there with PEAK LeBron.

You didn't get the joke.

Kawhitstorm

01-14-2016, 06:51 PM

What I meant was you arent going to carry your team to a ring unless youre 6'7+. GSW wasnt carried last year, they got lucky with opponent injuries and had 3 legit All-Stars.

Only people to "carry" would be Dirk 11, Tim 03, Hakeem 90s.

How in the hell did Dirk carry the Mavs when he shot 41% in the Finals & got outplayed by Wade (before he injured his hip in Gm 5) worst than Curry got outplayed by LeBron?:lol The Mavs supporting cast was as good as the Dubs LAST season (when Draymond was just a role player) & they also lucked out (West contenders on a decline/Heatles 1st season)