Racial Profiling is a farce made up by the ACLU.

[Yonivore]

Driving While Black = Reporting While Wrong

The Manhattan Institute (http://www.manhattan-institute.org/) has posted Heather Mac Donald's National Review article on the latest traffic stop data bearing on racial profiling. As might be deduced from the article's title, Mac Donald explores the New York Times's abuse of the data: "Reporting while wrong." (http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/_national_rev-reporting.htm) The article's subhead is "The New York Times peddles more driving while black malarkey." This is a beat that Mac Donald has simply owned for the past five years and that she covered in her book Are Cops Racist? (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/156663489X/102-7719016-3678528?v=glance).

Her article begins with an exposition of the key role played by University of Toledo Law School Professor David Harris in creating the myth of racial profiling. Harris has served as the intellectual guru of the racial profiling campaign waged by the ACLU. As an ACLU consultant, he wrote wrote the influential "Driving While Black" pamphlet to which Mac Donald refers at the top of her article; the racial profiling litigation that brought the issue of alleged racial profiling in traffic stops to national attention in 2000 was a project of the ACLU.

Mac Donald also notes that Harris expanded his pamphlet into the 2002 book Profiles in Injustice (http://www.profilesininjustice.com/). I read the book when I was invited to debate Harris in early 2002 on his visit to the Twin Cities to promote the book. I'm not easily shocked, but I was shocked by the sophisticated misrepresentations and omissions in Harris's book. Harris argues that crime rates do not differ by racial group, that they are equal among racial groups. He simply discounts the basic data regarding racial disparities in crime rates, omits any reference to the basic data regarding the racial identification of perpetrators by victims, and dispenses with the related criminological scholarship of the past 30 years or so.

One of my favorite bloggers, Scott Johnson at Powerline, wrote an article on the subject for the January/February 2003 issue of the American Enterprise (http://www.taemag.com/default.asp) that ran with an excerpt from Harris's book: "Better Unsafe than (Occasionally) Sorry?" (http://www.taemag.com/issues/articleID.17351/article_detail.asp) Harris subsequently wrote the magazine:


The personal attack on me in Scott Johnson's article contains inaccuracies, distortions, as well as a breathtaking slander: that I am responsible for the success of the September 11 attacks. All of this from a writer who never even bothered to talk to me, which could have at least saved him from making many of the errors in the piece.
Scott Johnson responded:


The article is not a personal attack on Professor Harris; it is fair comment on his book. I am not aware of any factual errors and he does not cite any. Harris also does not mention the excerpt from his book that accompanies the piece; it allows him to speak in his own words. In any case, the suggestion that I should have talked to him before critiquing his article lacks a basis in any journalistic practice. Besides, on March 7, 2002, I attended two presentations by Harris in the Twin Cities. After the first of his talks I commented as a panelist. Following the second presentation, I debated him. I regret Professor Harris has taken offense, but he is a voluntary participant in a serious debate and can expect his controversial claims to be engaged and refuted by a concerned public.
The gist of the American Enterprise article (linked above) was akin to that of Mac Donald's current National Review piece -- the alleged phenomenon of racial profiling condemned by advocates like Harris generally does not exist.

[ChumpDumper]

Why did the BJS use a survey of civilians and not actual police records? Wouldn't those be the most accurate source for proving this kind of thing?

Perception is a tricky thing to be sure, but I can't remember the last report of a white guy having a broomstick shoved up his ass by a cop or, closer to home, a cop saying "burn baby burn" over the radio while watching a nightclub in a white neighborhood burn to the ground.

If you have such stories documented, let me know.

[SWC Bonfire]

You are full of it if you don't think that there is racial profiling.

[smeagol]

You are full of it if you don't think that there is racial profiling.
Yoni . . . full of it? Naaaaahhhhhhh!

[FromWayDowntown]

A few years ago, Bryan Burwell wrote a memorable column about his "driving while black" experience. I've tried to find the article and will keep looking for it, but it was some time ago that it was published.

Basically, Burwell recounted that he was driving his nice car through his ritzy, predominantly-white neighborhood, obeying all traffic laws, when he was stopped. The column runs through a litany of issues related to the stop but ultimately concludes that he was stopped simply because he was a black man driving a nice car in an affluent area. If that isn't racial profiling -- if it doesn't prove that at least idiosyncratic racial profiling takes place -- then the debate isn't really a debate; it's a comparison of apples and oranges.

[Yonivore]

Why did the BJS use a survey of civilians and not actual police records?
So, you're more willing to accept a police department's self reporting than 80,000 people who were surveyed?


Wouldn't those be the most accurate source for proving this kind of thing?
Only if the reporting methods, among the law enforcement agencies, were uniform, audited, and independent. Which they are not.


Perception is a tricky thing to be sure, but I can't remember the last report of a white guy having a broomstick shoved up his ass by a cop...
Funny, I can only remember that happening to a black person once. Not exactly an epidemic.


...or, closer to home, a cop saying "burn baby burn" over the radio while watching a nightclub in a white neighborhood burn to the ground.
That club had been a persistent police problem. I would imagine the sentiments would have been the same for any burning "white" club with a similar background of disturbances.


If you have such stories documented, let me know.
If you know of even a second story fitting the above anectodal criteria, let me know.

[Ocotillo]

You just like to debate for the sake of debate don't you?

[JoePublic]

I know from experience that racial profiling happens.

[Yonivore]

You just like to debate for the sake of debate don't you?
Isn't that what these forums are for?

And, back to the issue, the New York Times attempted to use this same survey and report to support the premise that racial profiling is engaged in by police. However, they glossed over the fact that according to those surveyed, all races were equally likely to be pulled over...it was what happened after the stop that the disparity between races becomes apparent. The survey also found that, of the blacks stopped, most occurred at night when the race of the driver is less likely to have been discerned prior to the stop.

So, the whole notion of being stopped simply because of your race it kind of blown out of the water by these 80,000 American Citizens.

Now, if you look at the disparate treatment, after the stop, the article suggests that driver behavior is more likely to have been the cause of an altercation than police behavior.

And, since you're so inclined to base your position on single examples, I will too. Rodney King had the snot beat out of him because why? He was black? No, it was because he was an asshole. He passenger was black and they didn't even lay a hand on him.

The study also found that blacks, after being spoonfed all this nonsense about Driving While Black, are more likely to spout off about only being stopped because they're black and thus elevate the potential for confrontation right off the bat.

Then, you could get into the fact that crime rates are higher among blacks than whites and, therefore, (since blacks are a smaller percentage of the overall population) police are more likely to encounter a black criminal during a traffic stop than a white one.

But, all that aside, I'm back to the essential finding of the survey that all races are equally represented in traffice stops which, on the face, dispels the myth of anything such as "Driving While Black" or racial profiling in traffic stops.


I know from experience that racial profiling happens.
And I know, from experience, that black on white racism is more prevalent than white on black racism. Just ask Reginald Denny...his only crime was being a white man trying to do his job in a black neighborhood. At least Rodney King was an recitivist asshole that deserved to get the dog squeeze kicked out of him.

[spurster]

And slavery was historical fiction also made up by evil liberals!

[Yonivore]

And slavery was historical fiction also made up by evil liberals!
No, slavery was real. And, several Subsaharan African nations (black people) still practice it. Thanks for the non sequitur.

[SWC Bonfire]

TRO, you really need to evaluate the quality/veracity of information you receive and whether the people generating the info have an agenda.

You are another Nbadan.

[Yonivore]

TRO, you really need to evaluate the quality/veracity of information you receive and whether the people generating the info have an agenda.

You are another Nbadan.
What, it's not politically correct, therefore, it's extreme?

The survey was conducted by the U.S. Department of Justice...you know, those folks everyone always wants brought in when they accuse a Police Department of racial discrimination or other wrongdoing.

So, they're not good enough when the data debunks some popular article of faith among the left or the victimhood society?

Oh, and I did evaluate the source. I note, however, you have not specific criticism of the source or their findings.

[nkdlunch]

To say racial profiling doesn't exist is like saying racism doesn't exist.

[SWC Bonfire]

You've never driven through south Texas and seen black people pulled over and outside of the vehicle, evidently.

I don't question the veracity of my own eyes.

[Yonivore]

To say racial profiling doesn't exist is like saying racism doesn't exist.
I think the article and the data make a strong case for refuting the claim that "Driving while black" is a common practice among police departments..or even that it happens at all. I was hoping that instead of getting your short hairs tangled over defending the overarching article of faith that racism exists, that you would at least argue the merits of this study.

But, I guess not.

[Yonivore]

You've never driven through south Texas and seen black people pulled over and outside of the vehicle, evidently.

I don't question the veracity of my own eyes.
I was raised in South Texas and I saw all races pulled over and outside their vehicles. I've worked in two South Texas Sheriff's Departments and have been on the "pulling over" side of the equation many times and I can tell you never once was a traffic stop in which I was a party ever initiate based on the race of the driver -- unless it was a factor in the description of a wanted criminal actively being searched for in the area.

[nkdlunch]

I think the article and the data make a strong case for refuting the claim that "Driving while black" is a common practice among police departments..or even that it happens at all. I was hoping that instead of getting your short hairs tangled over defending the overarching article of faith that racism exists, that you would at least argue the merits of this study.

if the article like you say, refutes:

the claim that "Driving while black" .....happens at all.

then it's suggesting racial profiling doesn't exist. So once again:
To say racial profiling doesn't exist is like saying racism doesn't exist.

I don't need to read the details of a study that claims something impossible. Would you read the details of a study that claims racism doesn't exist and claims to have proof? knowing that you've experience it firsthand?? :rolleyes

[Yonivore]

if the article like you say, refutes:


then it's suggesting racial profiling doesn't exist. So once again:
To say racial profiling doesn't exist is like saying racism doesn't exist.

I don't need to read the details of a study that claims something impossible. Would you read the details of a study that claims racism doesn't exist and claims to have proof. knowing that you've experience it firsthand?? :rolleyes
Apples and oranges.

That's like suggesting if racial profiling doesn't exist neither does racism and I'm not making that claim. Racism exists in all races. Not to the extent it once did and, certainly, not the legal approval of the government, but, it exists none-the-less.

And, to the extent that racial profiling does exist, I believe it could appropriately employed. 100% of the September 11 hijackers were of Arab descent -- as were 100% of the London bombers. To me, it makes more sense to look closely at Arabs than at little old ladies. Political correctness has pretty much put a stop to this common sense approach.

But, again, back to the article...we're specifically talking about the claim that people are pulled over simply because of their race. The basic statistic of the survey refutes this, in that it shows that about 9% of all races -- over the entire 80,000 people -- were pulled over by the police. That's pretty remarkable if you ask me.

[Yonivore]

I don't need to read the details of a study that claims something impossible. Would you read the details of a study that claims racism doesn't exist and claims to have proof? knowing that you've experience it firsthand?? :rolleyes
I almost missed this part.

The article never makes the claim that racism doesn't exist but that the premise of "Driving While Black" doesn't happen. It isn't an article about racism or one that tries to cover the entire question of racism. It's focus was narrow and pertained to the question traffice stops and race.

And, quite frankly, as a person that has been in law enforcement for their entire professional life, I know -- from firsthand experience in a number of agencies (local, state, and federal) in cities large and small -- that "Driving While Black" is a myth. This data tends to confirm that.

And, yes, I'd read such a study if only to be able to refute the specific claims made with whatever "firsthand" experiences or other evidence I have. It's how questions are resolved.

[SpursWoman]

You've never driven through south Texas and seen black people pulled over and outside of the vehicle, evidently.

I don't question the veracity of my own eyes.


I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, but you don't think it's possible, if not probable, that that black person pulled over and outside of the vehicle committed a moving violation? Or maybe had warrant(s)?

So, if a white person gets pulled over, it's because they were doing something wrong, but if a black person gets pulled over...it's 'cuz they're black?

:lol


Unrelated: I was listening to the radio on the way to work this morning about the police running background checks on 100 of all the registered NO evacuees so far that were in Rhode Island (I think) ... and over 1/2 of them had some sort of a criminal record. That was messed up... :wow

[ChumpDumper]

Funny, I can only remember that happening to a black person once. Not exactly an epidemic.You would think it's funny. Other times they just shoot them.
That club had been a persistent police problem. I would imagine the sentiments would have been the same for any burning "white" club with a similar background of disturbances.You imagine many things. You probably imagine Austin PD's relations with the black population are all hugs and kisses.
So, you're more willing to accept a police department's self reporting than 80,000 people who were surveyed?Am I not supposed to trust the police? That's your entire premise, right? What do they have to hide?

[JoeChalupa]

I've been a victim of racial profiling. It happens.

[Kori Ellis]

Of course racial profiling exists. I come from a family of police officers; they'll all tell you it exists. If there's an area where a lot of crime has been committed by young, black (or whatever) youth, then more young black people will get pulled over. That's just how it is.

In many instances it has to exist. For example, after 9-11, if you went to the airport and were of Middle Eastern descent (or looked it) were you more closely looked at than a middle aged white, blonde woman? Of course.

[JoePublic]

I think white, rich looking men in suits should be pulled over and asked to see their financial statements.

[Kori Ellis]

I think white, rich looking men in suits should be pulled over and asked to see their financial statements.

True. But they should be pulled over by IRS agents. :)

[RandomGuy]

I have seen first-hand friends who were pulled over for DWB. They were just in the "wrong" neighborhood, and didn't do anything different than anybody else.

I have done ride-alongs with cops who have done the same, when I was thinking about becoming a cop.


Thank God for the ACLU.