Parker 16th in NBA in defensive rating, but last on Spurs in defensive rating!

[Galileo]

Parker 16th in NBA in defensive rating


Defensive Rating

1. Tim Duncan ▪ SAS 91.6
2. Kawhi Leonard ▪ SAS 92.1
3. Hassan Whiteside ▪ MIA 92.9
4. Andre Drummond ▪ DET 94.0
5. LaMarcus Aldridge ▪ SAS 95.9
6. Danny Green ▪ SAS 96.8
7. Ian Mahinmi ▪ IND 96.8
8. Jared Sullinger ▪ BOS 97.0
9. Pau Gasol ▪ CHI 97.2
10. DeAndre Jordan ▪ LAC 97.6
11. Patrick Mills ▪ SAS 97.9
12. Paul George ▪ IND 98.1
13. Boris Diaw ▪ SAS 98.4
14. Draymond Green ▪ GSW 98.7
15. Kevin Love ▪ CLE 98.9
16. Tony Parker ▪ SAS 99.0
17. Kelly Olynyk ▪ BOS 99.1
18. LeBron James ▪ CLE 99.3
19. Nikola Mirotic ▪ CHI 99.5
20. Jordan Hill ▪ IND 99.5

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2016_leaders.html?lid=standings_leaders

note that if you take out the other Spurs, Parker is actually 10th in the NBA.

note also this stat requires about 18.3 minutes played per scheduled game to qualify, I believe.

but last on Spurs in defensive rating!


1 Boban Marjanovic 89
2 Tim Duncan 92 [1st in NBA]
3 Kawhi Leonard 92 [2nd in NBA]
4 David West 94
5 Rasual Butler 95
6 Kyle Anderson 95
7 Manu Ginobili 96
8 LaMarcus Aldridge 96 [5th in NBA]
9 Matt Bonner 97
10 Danny Green 97 [6th in NBA]
11 Ray McCallum 98
12 Jonathon Simmons 98
13 Boris Diaw 98 [11th in NBA]
14 Patrick Mills 98 [13th in NBA]
15 Tony Parker 99 [16th in NBA]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2016.html

note this chart here includes all Spurs who have played at least 1 minute this season.

I think the Spurs have a good defense.

[tonight...you]

He's been fighting harder this year than he has in many a-year. And consistently too.
I hope and pray it keeps up. This team needs focused, defensive intensity from top to bottom at all times.

[Uriel]

WE'RE STAAAAAAAAAAAACKED

[GSH]

Meh - I tried to explain this in another thread earlier. Basketball-Reference uses a different formula for individual DRtg than the NBA.com uses. First, compare that list to the NBA.com version of DRtg: http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612759

Two things you should now about the BasketballReference DRtg formula, and why the stats look the way they do.

1. The basis for their individual DRtg is the team's DRtg (which is the number of points the team allows per 100 possessions.) So since SA has such a gaudy team DRtg, everyone on the team is going to look pretty good. And a good defender on a shit team could look really bad with their DRtg formula.
2. Their formula adjusts for blocks, defensive rebounds, and steals - which means it favors big men, because they pick up so many defensive boards compared to other players. After that, it favors players who get steals and/or blocks. That's why Tony is last on the team, and why four big men are at the top.


The NBA.com formula just looks at how many points the team gives up per 100 possessions - while that player is on the floor. Note that the Spurs have given up very few points per 100 possessions while Rasuel Butler was on the floor, and a LOT more when Danny Green was on the floor. Does that mean Butler is a great defender - better than Danny? Not so much. It more likely means that he was on the floor against the worst scrubs the other teams had to offer, and they couldn't hit shit.

Those things are fun to look at, and the Spurs are a very good defensive team. But trying to use DRtg (either formula) to draw direct comparisons between players on different teams, or even players on the same team, is pretty risky business. Even on Danny Green's bad nights, I don't think anyone would suggest that he is a worse defender than Rasuel Butler.

[dabom]

GSH hit on the head. As I've said many times. Lets use some context.

[Galileo]

Meh - I tried to explain this in another thread earlier. Basketball-Reference uses a different formula for individual DRtg than the NBA.com uses. First, compare that list to the NBA.com version of DRtg: http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612759

Two things you should now about the BasketballReference DRtg formula, and why the stats look the way they do.

1. The basis for their individual DRtg is the team's DRtg (which is the number of points the team allows per 100 possessions.) So since SA has such a gaudy team DRtg, everyone on the team is going to look pretty good. And a good defender on a shit team could look really bad with their DRtg formula.
2. Their formula adjusts for blocks, defensive rebounds, and steals - which means it favors big men, because they pick up so many defensive boards compared to other players. After that, it favors players who get steals and/or blocks. That's why Tony is last on the team, and why four big men are at the top.


The NBA.com formula just looks at how many points the team gives up per 100 possessions - while that player is on the floor. Note that the Spurs have given up very few points per 100 possessions while Rasuel Butler was on the floor, and a LOT more when Danny Green was on the floor. Does that mean Butler is a great defender - better than Danny? Not so much. It more likely means that he was on the floor against the worst scrubs the other teams had to offer, and they couldn't hit shit.

Those things are fun to look at, and the Spurs are a very good defensive team. But trying to use DRtg (either formula) to draw direct comparisons between players on different teams, or even players on the same team, is pretty risky business. Even on Danny Green's bad nights, I don't think anyone would suggest that he is a worse defender than Rasuel Butler.

party pooper.

:nope

[spurraider21]

:lol drtg for individual players

[Nathan89]

I'm calling him The Glove for now on.

[Obstructed_View]

GSH hit on the head. As I've said many times. Lets use some context.

By the eye test, Parker's defense this year has been stout. Not only is he healthy, he's putting forth a lot of effort.

[dabom]

By the eye test, Parker's defense this year has been stout. Not only is he healthy, he's putting forth a lot of effort.

By eye test he is a better defender than last year. Probably 2013 levels. Just not the offense.

[Reck]

Guy is more interesting in banging chicks from other relationships and making TV commercials.

He should be playing backup to Mills imo.

[313]

By eye test he is a better defender than last year. Probably 2013 levels. Just not the offense.
Id say he's on par with his 2012 self where he didn't need to be his on defense and could handle match ups with guys like Westbrook. 2013 is when his average defense started falling off imo

[Obstructed_View]

By eye test he is a better defender than last year. Probably 2013 levels. Just not the offense.

I think his offense has been great. He shoots less, still gets assists, his field goal and three point percentage are stellar, his turnovers are down and his steals are up. He also seems to be saving himself for when he's needed, which makes him deadly and might keep him fresh for a playoff push.

[dabom]

I don't think 2012. 2012 means the defensive unit of the starting 5 actually got better with him on the floor. That isn't the case now. 2013 is more realistic.

[dabom]

I think his offense has been great. He shoots less, still gets assists, his field goal and three point percentage are stellar, his turnovers are down and his steals are up. He also seems to be saving himself for when he's needed, which makes him deadly and might keep him fresh for a playoff push.

Not his offense. 2013 he was the man. The team could rely on his offense 24/7 and not on spurts without actually hurting the team like now. He is playing his role which is good for the team.

[Obstructed_View]

Not his offense. 2013 he was the man. The team could rely on his offense 24/7 and not on spurts without actually hurting the team like now. He is playing his role which is good for the team.

Not sure what games you're watching, but he's not hurting the team with his offense. He's scoring efficiently without dominating the ball.

[dabom]

Not sure what games you're watching, but he's not hurting the team with his offense. He's scoring efficiently without dominating the ball.

I was saying his offense isn't 2013 Tony. Not that his offense isn't good this year.

[thiste]

I've noticed that he's been putting more effort on D as well. Oh and about last night, maybe he didn't have a huge amount of assists, but he gave us points and that's what we most needed. Tony can still be very efficient, and important to our success on some nights. Let's never forget that.

[ceperez]

Meh - I tried to explain this in another thread earlier. Basketball-Reference uses a different formula for individual DRtg than the NBA.com uses. First, compare that list to the NBA.com version of DRtg: http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612759

Two things you should now about the BasketballReference DRtg formula, and why the stats look the way they do.

1. The basis for their individual DRtg is the team's DRtg (which is the number of points the team allows per 100 possessions.) So since SA has such a gaudy team DRtg, everyone on the team is going to look pretty good. And a good defender on a shit team could look really bad with their DRtg formula.
2. Their formula adjusts for blocks, defensive rebounds, and steals - which means it favors big men, because they pick up so many defensive boards compared to other players. After that, it favors players who get steals and/or blocks. That's why Tony is last on the team, and why four big men are at the top.


The NBA.com formula just looks at how many points the team gives up per 100 possessions - while that player is on the floor. Note that the Spurs have given up very few points per 100 possessions while Rasuel Butler was on the floor, and a LOT more when Danny Green was on the floor. Does that mean Butler is a great defender - better than Danny? Not so much. It more likely means that he was on the floor against the worst scrubs the other teams had to offer, and they couldn't hit shit.

Those things are fun to look at, and the Spurs are a very good defensive team. But trying to use DRtg (either formula) to draw direct comparisons between players on different teams, or even players on the same team, is pretty risky business. Even on Danny Green's bad nights, I don't think anyone would suggest that he is a worse defender than Rasuel Butler.

The numbers seem okay but not as good as ESPN's real plus minus. ESPN's method is able to tweak out more individual contribution.

The problem with these numbers is that players who barely play seem to have higher rank than they should.

[hater]

:lmao short busssers rolling on the ground like worms with salt poured on their worm bodies :lol

[Obstructed_View]

I was saying his offense isn't 2013 Tony. Not that his offense isn't good this year.

Fair enough. It's not MVP level, but I'd submit that it's far more valuable now, particularly if it saves him wear and tear before the playoffs start.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Boban the best on our team... and people say he can't guard the paint. :lol

[$pursDynasty]

Dabom and Obstructed having an insightful discussion, my alma mater winning the College football National championship (Roll Tide) and my NFL team is back in LA (Rams fan since '77), this year is shaping up quite well. Got a good feeling about tonight and this season. I might need to restock all my sports apparel LA Rams gear and new championship swag for the Spurs and the Tide. Back to the point, Parker is obviously trying harder. I love MVParker but some times when things weren't going his way he would sulk but this year he is making a serious effort, and seems ok with his role on the team. Going from #1 sidekick, to the man of the team for a brief while, to now a Manu type (not the man but a very vital part of what makes the team special, which is what all the big 3 are now.)

[100%duncan]

Parker is a decent defender this yr but drating individually is not good like gah said

[TheDoctor]

D E P T H.

[SpursFan86]

GSH nailed it. Far too many people try using individual DRTG as the basis of their argument when it comes to defense. It really just shows who gets the most blocks/steals/rebounds on the best defensive teams. There were years where Parker had a higher DRTG than Bowen since Bowen didn't really rack up box score numbers :lol

Better gauges of defense: opponents' FG% against a player compared to their average FG%, Synergy stats (shows points allowed per possession on several different play types), and DRPM (not perfect by any means but still much better than individual DRTG)

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/defense/#!/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612759&sort=PCT_PLUSMINUS&dir=-1

http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/?PT=player&OD=defensive

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM

[Brazil]

As pointed out Drtg taken individually does not make a lot of sense but he plays most of his minutes with Kawhi, Tim, LMA and Green... saying he is the worst defender among those beasts is quite safe :lol

for the rest I agree that he is much more dialed up on defense than previous years for basically the same reason: team asks less from him on offense (usage and shoots are down) which basically save energy on this side of the floor AND he cannot afford anymore to coast on defense... less offensive contribution + no defense would = bench

[GSH]

The one thing you can say for sure from looking at the stats - if Parker really, really sucked on defense (like many say) the Spurs wouldn't have a team DRtg of 93.5. You can't have a great defensive team with one of the five starters playing matador. For the first half of the season, at least, this has been a great defensive team.

[Cry Havoc]

Two things I submit for further consideration:

1) Patty Mills has been fairly terrible on defense this year. He has had trouble staying in front of his man and gets burned a lot even against backup PGs. He somewhat makes up for this by being a 100% hustle and heart player who tends to generate a decent amount of steals, but the fact that he's rated higher than Parker is pretty telling.

2) The amount of absolutely top flight PGs in the NBA right now is perhaps unparalleled in history. Curry, Wall, Cp3, Parker, Teague, Westbrook, Lowry, Lillard, Conley, Rondo... and a pretty solid 2nd tier of very skilled PGs (Walker, Bledsoe, Dragic, Rubio, Hill...). I don't think you'll find a point in NBA history with more top flight PGs who are so skilled at managing possessions while being a scoring threat.

[dabom]

Two things I submit for further consideration:

1) Patty Mills has been fairly terrible on defense this year. He has had trouble staying in front of his man and gets burned a lot even against backup PGs. He somewhat makes up for this by being a 100% hustle and heart player who tends to generate a decent amount of steals, but the fact that he's rated higher than Parker is pretty telling.

2) The amount of absolutely top flight PGs in the NBA right now is perhaps unparalleled in history. Curry, Wall, Cp3, Parker, Teague, Westbrook, Lowry, Lillard, Conley, Rondo... and a pretty solid 2nd tier of very skilled PGs (Walker, Bledsoe, Dragic, Rubio, Hill...). I don't think you'll find a point in NBA history with more top flight PGs who are so skilled at managing possessions while being a scoring threat.

Patty mills has a lower defensive rating...

[dabom]

Patty Mills defense is also better than Parkers...

[Cry Havoc]

Patty mills has a lower defensive rating...


but the fact that he's rated higher than Parker is pretty telling.


rated higher than Parker


higher

high, adj.
higher, highest

exalted in rank, station, eminence, etc.; of exalted character or quality:
a high official; high society.

I know, I know. English is not your strong suit.

[dabom]

high, adj.
higher, highest

exalted in rank, station, eminence, etc.; of exalted character or quality:
a high official; high society.

I know, I know. English is not your strong suit.

There is a rating system. The higher the better for offense. The lower the better for defense faggot. Say "better" not higher faggot. :lmao

[Cry Havoc]

There is a rating system. The higher the better for offense. The lower the better for defense faggot. Say "better" not higher faggot. :lmao

Gee. It's almost like there's a thing called "context" that tends to clue you in to the meaning of the words you're reading.

[dabom]

Gee. It's almost like there's a thing called "context" that tends to clue you in to the meaning of the words you're reading.

Shut up faggot. :lmao

[Cry Havoc]

Shut up faggot. :lmao

:rollin :rolleyes