NBA.com: Which if Lebron played for Pop

[SPURt]

http://www.nba.com/2016/news/features/fran_blinebury/01/14/cleveland-cavaliers-san-antonio-spurs-preview-lebron-james-kyrie-irving-kevin-love-timofey-mozgov-tim-duncan-kawhi-leonard-tony-parker/index.html?ls=iref:nba:specials:homepage:t1

enjoy

my bad on the title typo

[spursistan]

probably less gaudy numbers (less minutes) but more rings: He wins two of 2009, 2010 or 2011 chips..

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Pop could never put up with LeBron's entourage.

[FromWayDowntown]

It's an interesting exercise, though I think it's under-appreciated that much of what Pop has been able to build culturally has been less about him forcing a vision down people's throats and much more about having an iconic player as an extension of the coach/culture-builder who values winning above all and is a willing extension of what Pop wants the culture to be. I wonder if Pop would have have that sort of simpatico with Lebron; would Lebron have pushed back more (and publicly) if Pop's vision was inconsistent with the narratives of Lebron's brand?

I think the other part of this is about when Lebron and Pop might have been brought together. Pop the Icon wouldn't really be susceptible of a challenge from a player. But before he was truly iconic, Pop might well have lost a power struggle with a strong-willed and unhappy superstar.

[BillMc]

Pop could never put up with LeBron's entourage.

This. LeBron has never, ever gotten over himself.

[BatManu20]

Y'all are crazy if you think Pop wouldn't have jumped at an opportunity to coach Lebron. His numbers would've suffered a bit, but he would've been better for it. Spurs would've been almost unbeatable in a 7-game series if healthy.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Y'all are crazy if you think Pop wouldn't have jumped at an opportunity to coach Lebron. His numbers would've suffered a bit, but he would've been better for it. Spurs would've been almost unbeatable in a 7-game series if healthy.

We realistically could have signed him AND aldridge for the max this offseason... provided we let Leonard walk.

[Chinook]

People forget that Pop and Tim became friends before the Spurs ever drafted him. They had a bound you just don't see in any other coach/player duo. And without that, Pop is a potential failure as a coach, since he took over in an unstable situation and barely hung onto his job. I don't see how he would have been able to handle a Lebron who has always had a god-complex and a team that's been willing to let him run while in exchange for his talent.

To FWD's point, Pop's biggest strength is that he's as good of a GM as he is a coach (sorry, RC, but you don't count for this conversation). He's the best at getting guys who fit what he wants and passing over those who don't. So I'm not sure how Pop would handle Lebron being under his wing. I don't even know how Pop would handle having to deal with an opposing power in the personnel department, like having a Cuban or Ujuri making moves against Pop's wishes.

[Chinook]

We realistically could have signed him AND aldridge for the max this offseason... provided we let Leonard walk.

I mean, look, man, no.

[Fireball]

another thread title fail ...

[FromWayDowntown]

Y'all are crazy if you think Pop wouldn't have jumped at an opportunity to coach Lebron. His numbers would've suffered a bit, but he would've been better for it. Spurs would've been almost unbeatable in a 7-game series if healthy.

Of course Pop would have loved to have coached Lebron.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

We realistically could have signed him AND aldridge for the max this offseason... provided we let Leonard walk.

lol ceperez?

[SAGirl]

It's an interesting exercise, though I think it's under-appreciated that much of what Pop has been able to build culturally has been less about him forcing a vision down people's throats and much more about having an iconic player as an extension of the coach/culture-builder who values winning above all and is a willing extension of what Pop wants the culture to be. I wonder if Pop would have have that sort of simpatico with Lebron; would Lebron have pushed back more (and publicly) if Pop's vision was inconsistent with the narratives of Lebron's brand?

I think the other part of this is about when Lebron and Pop might have been brought together. Pop the Icon wouldn't really be susceptible of a challenge from a player. But before he was truly iconic, Pop might well have lost a power struggle with a strong-willed and unhappy superstar.
^^^^^
Totally agree with this.:tu:tu:tu:tu:tu:tu

Pop has stated himself explicitly multiple times, that the character of the guys that he brings in is very important, that he's not going to make someone into something he's not. He gets a lot of credit for his program, but he always credit the players' character for allowing him to coach them as he coaches them, and for having a lot of character.

That has lead me to believe Pop wasn't going to fix guys such as Cousins, or many other talented guys in the league who have attitude or off-the-court problems. Heck for all we know, Pop might have gotten fired himself, fighting with guys like these, like so many other coaches who have to deal with uncoachable guys.

Guys that play for Pop have to be coachable, but Pop also lets supremely talented guys get away with more than he would let a role player get away with. Manu is the perfect example. You had to let Manu be Manu. In that sense, I think Pop would have let Lebron be Lebron, maybe trying to coach him but recognizing that the man has supreme talent and needs liberty to do and be himself. I think Pop would have tried to have Lebron post up a whole lot earlier in his career than when he went to Miami and Lebron would have had one or two more championships just bc Pop would have figured out a system and roleplayers to put around him earlier in his career.

The issue with Lebron's entourage is real, but Tony has done a lot of media, and Manu is very popular as well and Pop has managed the whole thing well. I think Pop would have been able to work with Lebron depending on how coachable you think Lebron was early in his career. I didn't know him then, but he's not very coachable right now.

[GSH]

If LeBron played FOR Pop? LeBron doesn't play FOR anybody. Never has.

BTW - Didn't LeBron promise he was going to win 8 championships? He better step it up. At his current pace, he's gonna have to stay in the league 36 years. I don't think even King James will be competitive at 55 years old.

[Old School 44]

It's an interesting exercise, though I think it's under-appreciated that much of what Pop has been able to build culturally has been less about him forcing a vision down people's throats and much more about having an iconic player as an extension of the coach/culture-builder who values winning above all and is a willing extension of what Pop wants the culture to be. I wonder if Pop would have have that sort of simpatico with Lebron; would Lebron have pushed back more (and publicly) if Pop's vision was inconsistent with the narratives of Lebron's brand?

I think the other part of this is about when Lebron and Pop might have been brought together. Pop the Icon wouldn't really be susceptible of a challenge from a player. But before he was truly iconic, Pop might well have lost a power struggle with a strong-willed and unhappy superstar.

Excellent post. TD was/is the perfect superstar for Pop. I really think Tim being a psychology major helped him buy-in to what has now developed into the Spurs way. Early Pop wouldn't have made it with LeBron and we wouldn't have the Spurs system we have today. No offense to LeBron, but he was put on a pedestal at an early age. I still remember tuning in to ESPN to see LeBron's high school game! I think early Pop/LeBron would have clashed.

[SAGirl]

I am going to play devil's advocate right now bc we are too goody goody on this thread all in the same page here.

What about Manu's game though? Didn't Tony in that special after the championship in 2014 say that he didn't really know if Manu and Pop were going to be able to work together? To which Manu replied, that he really didn't know either. Pop then said, they were right, Manu was tough to coach, he fought back.. He wasn't going to be boxed in. After Manu, Pop has changed, he's now more open to unorthodox games or ideas, than he was pre-Manu.

[GSH]

Seriously - the fact that Tim and Manu are still playing at the level they are is as much a testimony to Pop's genius as anything. He started limiting minutes so many years ago, and giving strategic nights off. He kept guys off the floor after injuries. He recognized that they don't give a trophy to the winner of the regular season. Never chased records, other than LOB Trophies.

Of course having the best player in the game makes a coach look good. But I honestly don't think LeBron's world view and Pop's are compatible. LeBron has always been me, me, me. Pop has always preached team, team, team. That would have been a very real problem.

[bklynspursfan]

Pop could never put up with LeBron's entourage.


This. LeBron has never, ever gotten over himself.

Yup.. That's just how some guys are

[hater]

another thread title fail ...

:lol fireball thread title police

[hater]

Lots of fantasy in this thread. Truth is we don't know if a player could withstand Pops mechanics until it has been tried. Hell we don't even know if Lamarcus has the mettle for it.

Lebron could have easily folded like that bitch Jefferson. Or he could have liked it rough like Green.

We just don't know

[Fireball]

:lol fireball thread title police

yeah, I know ... but its getting a little out of hand lately :lol

[buttsR4rebounding]

We realistically could have signed him AND aldridge for the max this offseason... provided we let Leonard walk.

Fail. We were able to sign Kawhi to the max under the bird rules. Do you not remember having to sign players in a certain order to be able fit under the cap? The Spurs had room for 1 max FA, not 2.

[SPURt]

another thread title fail ...
Sorry, I didn't mean to ruin your spurstalk experience. I ruin everything... Maybe that's why Dad left...

[JohnnyMax]

Lebron cannot win without superstars.

If Duncan, Ginobili and Parker are not his teammates, he'll bolt town and Pop gets fired.

[DMC]

With Bron Pop would have created a different style of offense where Lebron's number didn't suffer. The motion offense Pop runs is because he doesn't have a Lebron James. You can't take James from those days and plug him into this year's Spurs and wonder how he would fit. He would have changed the landscape himself in San Antonio, and Pop would have been smart enough not to fuck that up.

[KenziE]

Fuck Lebron !!!

Fucking Diva ..... ain't nobody got time for that !!!

[houston spurs fan]

We realistically could have signed him AND aldridge for the max this offseason... provided we let Leonard walk.
Xbox moves appearing on the forum now...

[GSH]

With Bron Pop would have created a different style of offense where Lebron's number didn't suffer. The motion offense Pop runs is because he doesn't have a Lebron James. You can't take James from those days and plug him into this year's Spurs and wonder how he would fit. He would have changed the landscape himself in San Antonio, and Pop would have been smart enough not to fuck that up.


As usual, that's good solid basketball talk. The rest of the speculation is pretty touchy-feely, and I can't disagree with anything you said, functionally. Absolutely agree that Pop would have tailored a system around LeBron's unique skill set, and it wouldn't look like this Spurs team.

Still, some of LeBron's antics over the years have been pretty detrimental to a team approach. I have a hard time imagining Pop flexing that far. You think about all those seasons when LeBron was clearly the best player in the game - played like the best player in the game - and somehow couldn't ring unless he had other name-brand stars around him. I think Pop would have seen potential for the team to be better, if Bron changed his approach at least a little. And I think he would have a problem with anything that got in the way of the bigger picture.

Your take is a lot more defensible than mine.

[YGWHI]

What about Manu's game though? Didn't Tony in that special after the championship in 2014 say that he didn't really know if Manu and Pop were going to be able to work together? To which Manu replied, that he really didn't know either. Pop then said, they were right, Manu was tough to coach, he fought back.. He wasn't going to be boxed in. After Manu, Pop has changed, he's now more open to unorthodox games or ideas, than he was pre-Manu.

We can't compare Manu's personality and his concept of the game/team to LeBron's. Manu wouldn't have changed a particular designed play by his coach to close a game, making it public like LeBron did.

[DMC]

As usual, that's good solid basketball talk. The rest of the speculation is pretty touchy-feely, and I can't disagree with anything you said, functionally. Absolutely agree that Pop would have tailored a system around LeBron's unique skill set, and it wouldn't look like this Spurs team.

Still, some of LeBron's antics over the years have been pretty detrimental to a team approach. I have a hard time imagining Pop flexing that far. You think about all those seasons when LeBron was clearly the best player in the game - played like the best player in the game - and somehow couldn't ring unless he had other name-brand stars around him. I think Pop would have seen potential for the team to be better, if Bron changed his approach at least a little. And I think he would have a problem with anything that got in the way of the bigger picture.

Your take is a lot more defensible than mine.
Steel sharpens steel. If Lebron was in SA, he'd have the mentor and leadership to steer him away from the shenanigans.

[Seventyniner]

There are several scenarios that the thread title can mean:

What if the Spurs had the #1 pick in 2003 and drafted LeBron, adding him to the defending champs
What if we clone 2003 Pop and have him be the coach of the Cavs starting in 2003-2004
What if Pop left the Spurs in 2003 (right after a title lol) and went to coach the Cavs
What if the Spurs traded Duncan for LeBron in 2003
What if the Spurs traded a large portion of the team, but not Duncan, for LeBron in 2003

etc.

All have different answers. LeBron joining Duncan under Pop would have either been a league-killing combo for 10+ years, or LeBron's me-first attitude causes him to leave or demand a trade along the way imo.

[GSH]

Steel sharpens steel. If Lebron was in SA, he'd have the mentor and leadership to steer him away from the shenanigans.

I wish I had a witty reply. You could be right. I remember that he was already a seasoned media-whore by the time he first suited up for Cleveland. He was making more in endorsements as a rookie than a lot of players make in their career. We're talking about the irresistible force meets the immovable object. I guess SA/Pop is the only chance of steering him away from his antics, but I've still got my doubts about it.

[Russ]

Lebron has basically played for a series of nonentity coaches from Cleveland to Miami and back to Cleveland.

He has never complained the way some stars have in similar situations (e.g., Magic Johnson about Paul Westhead).

Off-court persona aside, Lebron plays a Spurs-like game -- he passes and makes his teammates better.

Pop and Lebron would get along just fine.

[DMC]

I wish I had a witty reply. You could be right. I remember that he was already a seasoned media-whore by the time he first suited up for Cleveland. He was making more in endorsements as a rookie than a lot of players make in their career. We're talking about the irresistible force meets the immovable object. I guess SA/Pop is the only chance of steering him away from his antics, but I've still got my doubts about it.

He wouldn't be the stoic presence that Kawhi or Tim is, but that could be good for SA. If this team ever starts losing, no one will watch them. They'll be worse ratings wise than the Timberwolves.

[Perry Mason]

I saw this as subtle trolling by ESPN to elevate Lebron. What if Lebron was coached by Pop? How about, what if Tim Duncan were coached by Pop?

5 rings that's what.

It's irrational to think that Pop + Lebron sans TD would have had the same or better results. So, this counter-factual is like fantasizing about what if you had a Mustang when you already own a Bentley.

[100%duncan]

It's an interesting exercise, though I think it's under-appreciated that much of what Pop has been able to build culturally has been less about him forcing a vision down people's throats and much more about having an iconic player as an extension of the coach/culture-builder who values winning above all and is a willing extension of what Pop wants the culture to be. I wonder if Pop would have have that sort of simpatico with Lebron; would Lebron have pushed back more (and publicly) if Pop's vision was inconsistent with the narratives of Lebron's brand?

I think the other part of this is about when Lebron and Pop might have been brought together. Pop the Icon wouldn't really be susceptible of a challenge from a player. But before he was truly iconic, Pop might well have lost a power struggle with a strong-willed and unhappy superstar.

[spursistan]

Relative to his talent and impact, Lebron has under-ringed and will likely end up his career as such..the 2010/2011 chips were easily his titles to lose if he had HOF coaching and couple good role players on his team..

[wildbill2u]

If Le Bron had had an Aldridge or West moment and decided to move to SA instead of Miami, I think he is man enough to live up to that commitment. Similarly, I think Pop would have initiated that moment like he did with LMA and given LeBron assurances that his talents and skills would be appreciated and worked INTO THE SYSTEM.

However, the deal would have been cancelled by Commissioner Stern as an unfair change of the competitive balance of the game.

[spursistan]

Good luck to POP surviving his coach-killing talent at the first sign of adversity :lol..They would win some, but there is no way Pop put up with that much power Lebron invest in himself..

[ceperez]

Trade time... LeBron for Aldridge!!!!

[DMC]

Good luck to POP surviving his coach-killing talent at the first sign of adversity :lol..They would win some, but there is no way Pop put up with that much power Lebron invest in himself..
Seems to me Nate was fired as well.

[rexrobinson]

There is no doubt that Pop has evolved and adapted around his players and staff as needed, successful coaches must do this. However, I am sure he has a few core values that are foundational to all the generations of teams he has coached. I know at least one if them is to "Get over yourself". A player like like LeBron would of had to accept real mentoring and some in your face coaching without taking it personally. History shows that those who like or need to have an entourage full of yes men and brown nosers, don't get over themselves naturally.

[maverick1948]

Cant you see LeBron going above Pop's head to the VP of Basketball Operations to get rid of Pop? WOW that would be a thing of beauty to watch. Bron telling VP Popovich, that coach Pop had to go. LOL

Now for a serious question. Had we ended up with DeMarcus Cousins, would he be as angry about team play or would he be a 20 10 3 3 player for Pop that follows his instructions? Pop has a way to control almost all the players who come to SA. Play the game right and you win. Play it wrong or create a problem and you are gone. Pop took TP and made him a star, who's to say DC could be tamed to play next to Timmy.

[tholdren]

Pop could never put up with LeBron's entourage.

This. Or ledouche would get him fired. Spurs don't do thugs, except danny in da club green