If this team could find a consistent 3 Pt shooter......

[spursistan]

we blow the fuck out of the league and its contenders with way our D locks down...there were like 4/5 daggers WIDE OPEN 3s missed by Manu/Green to make this +15 by mid fourth and completely bury the Cavs..

It is just incredible how streaky and unreliable we've become from distance(5-17 tonight)...Maybe the improvement comes from within (Simmons?) because I'm near going to give up on Green and his ICY SEASON...All the hope is we don't die by it in in the postseason especially against the Dubs..

[midnightpulp]

It's definitely a worry. It would relieve a lot of Parker's backcourt load, which isn't sustainable.

Bad 3 point shooting killed us in '04, as well. And those players were supposed to be "shooters."

[GSH]

They just blew the fuck out of the best team in the East, and the best player in the game. I think all this team needs to do is keep improving. Play the best ball they are capable of, and watch the dominos fall.

[RD2191]

They just blew the fuck out of the best team in the East, and the best player in the game. I think all this team needs to do is keep improving. Play the best ball they are capable of, and watch the dominos fall.
A 4 point win isn't a blowout. Tbh

[DAF86]

If we could only had the guy with the best 3PT % in the league.

[ElNono]

It happens... Patty was ass and all of a sudden made an backbreaker 3 pointer... I still believe in Danny getting his touch back... there's still half a season to go

[SAGirl]

we blow the fuck out of the league and its contenders with way our D locks down...there were like 4/5 daggers WIDE OPEN 3s missed by Manu/Green to make this +15 by mid fourth and completely bury the Cavs..

It is just incredible how streaky and unreliable we've become from distance(5-17 tonight)...Maybe the improvement comes from within (Simmons?) because I'm near going to give up on Green and his ICY SEASON...All the hope is we don't die by it in in the postseason especially against the Dubs..
Pop has to keep pushing Simmons/Anderson.
Simmons looks like he will play some minutes in the postseason. He will have to bailout Danny.
Anderson very raw, but you can never tell when Pop is about to have it with someone and throw him out there. I saw him call D'west when he was open for 3 in a corner. D'west made his shot, no big deal, but it was a good sign he was willing to take that shot aggressively.
Some of it will have to come from these guys. Even just in the regular season a couple 3s they can give you does take some pressure from others. Just got to keep pushing them.

[SAGirl]

It happens... Patty was ass and all of a sudden made an backbreaker 3 pointer... I still believe in Danny getting his touch back... there's still half a season to go
Tonight was it for me with Danny. I am still upset with him for this crap ass game he put together.:bang

[SanAntonioSpurs23]

Bonner....

[DarrinS]

It happens... Patty was ass and all of a sudden made an backbreaker 3 pointer... I still believe in Danny getting his touch back... there's still half a season to go

Same here. Danny is going to shit on his detractors, tbqh.

[ElNono]

paging the corpse of Ray Allen

[GSH]

A 4 point win isn't a blowout. Tbh

After spotting them 15 points in the first quarter it is. Outscored them by 19 in the last 38 minutes of the game.

I know what you're saying, but winning that game is huge. I think they can stand pat with the roster they have. I think they SHOULD stand pat with the roster they have.

[rastaspur]

Same here. Danny is going to shit on his detractors, tbqh.

I really hope so. To this point though all he has done is shit the bed.

[BatManu20]

Not panicking because it's still early, but hopefully Danny finds his stroke again. He alone would completely change the dynamic of this offense if he starts hitting like he's capable of.

[rastaspur]

After spotting them 15 points in the first quarter it is. Outscored them by 19 in the last 38 minutes of the game.

I know what you're saying, but winning that game is huge. I think they can stand pat with the roster they have. I think they SHOULD stand pat with the roster they have.

Say it one more time and click your heels three times, dorothy.

[midnightpulp]

Also, we don't "need" to go after anyone.

The shooters on this team outside of Kawhi just need to wake the fuck up. If they do, RIP NBA.

[808]

These guys practice day in and day out shooting. Unless an undisclosed injury is hindering them, I'm not worried about them all of a sudden "forgetting" how to shoot, it just isn't possible.

Where's that article on Danny endlessly practicing his stroke. It's a reminder of everything you don't see these guys doing.

[SAGirl]

Same here. Danny is going to shit on his detractors, tbqh.
I hope he does. I have been on his camp but he's loosing me honestly. i would not mind for him to silence me up the rest of the season.

[Pauleta14]

We already got 2 of those.

It actually makes me optimistic for the future that despite their bad shooting the team is doing so well.

Imagine if DG was just a little bit better, the blowouts that this team would do

[kaji157]

The problem is the 3pt shooters on this team are trying to do too much, starting with green.

He has to take, open, not open, i don´t care, i prefer a block on him over him dribbling, but he has to be mentally strong, because if he is not, then he is not reliable which takes us to....

Manu, has to play more with the starting unit, because teams, (as cleveland did today) start to disrespect our shooters, and you need someone who can punish from 3 or with a penetration or with a good dish, problem is, Manu´s workload increases a lot, because not only he has to log more minutes, but usually while the other teams starters are out there he has a tougher defensive assignment, as it was today, so he is less effective on offense, taking us too...

Boris and Mills, our other two rotational players that can take and make a 3, are streaky enough from 3, and even more when Manu is not able to create good shots for them, so it all starts with our first shooter, and goes along to the last one.

Danny just have to take his 3´s, even if he is 0-6 he needs to keep shooting, and only drive when there is no shotblocker inside, that´s his job, he is 3 and D, he is Ding, now he has to 3in to.

[NickiRasgo]

I wonder if the Spurs would be able to pitch Robert Covington from 76ers for Bonner (maybe Butler as well) plus 2nd Round Pick (or maybe future 1st Round Pick).

[littlecoyotecoin]

With Kawhi's dominance at the 3 point line this season, we've been able to weather Patty and Danny's drought. Having him "camped" at the line might seem like a "waste" to some people whining about it on the board, but, he really isn't a natural ball handler, and we need three point shooting, and he leads the freakin' league. All that adds up to it being a pretty good place for him to be much of the time. Not to say shot distribution is perfect, etc. But, there's nothing wrong with camping him out there as a 3-point threat. It's what the team happens to need from someone sometimes, and he's damn good at it. It's almost like he's over himself, being able to stand in the corner a bit.

[SAGirl]

After spotting them 15 points in the first quarter it is. Outscored them by 19 in the last 38 minutes of the game.

I know what you're saying, but winning that game is huge. I think they can stand pat with the roster they have. I think they SHOULD stand pat with the roster they have.
Very much agree with you. Unstated in all of this is that the guys most would be willing to trade are actually young guys with upside that helped in this particular win... particularly the kind of player you want to keep.
Beyond Boban/Simmons/Anderson, the guys at the end of the bench won't get minutes and they don't have trade value...

Unless someone wants to trade Danny that is. (I don't.. I guess deep down I hope Danny still gets his groove back.... I guess I am no longer counting on it). This might be the low statistical season for Danny.

[jag]

Also, we don't "need" to go after anyone.

The shooters on this team outside of Kawhi just need to wake the fuck up. If they do, RIP NBA.

This. There isn't a savior out there. There are legitimate knockdown shooters on this team who haven't been able to get in rhythm. It happens. Winning in the postseason isn't about having a team full of Steve Novacks, it's about getting hot at the right time.

[SAGirl]

With Kawhi's dominance at the 3 point line this season, we've been able to weather Patty and Danny's drought. Having him "camped" at the line might seem like a "waste" to some people whining about it on the board, but, he really isn't a natural ball handler, and we need three point shooting, and he leads the freakin' league. All that adds up to it being a pretty good place for him to be much of the time. Not to say shot distribution is perfect, etc. But, there's nothing wrong with camping him out there as a 3-point threat. It's what the team happens to need from someone sometimes, and he's damn good at it. It's almost like he's over himself, being able to stand in the corner a bit.
On top of that he was playing 40 minutes and playing tough D against Lebron, by all means let Tony create and let him stand on the 3 for some possessions. Pop knows what he's doing.

[TheGreatYacht]

What is Jarell Eddie up to these days?

[Kawhitstorm]

Rasual Butler could rediscover his touch & have a Steve Kerr moment.

[Kawhitstorm]

What is Jarell Eddie up to these days?

The Wiz picked him up.

[Kawhitstorm]

I wonder if the Spurs would be able to pitch Robert Covington from 76ers for Bonner (maybe Butler as well) plus 2nd Round Pick (or maybe future 1st Round Pick).

They aren't trading Covington b/c he is on a dirty cheap contract.:lol

[Kawhitstorm]

With Kawhi's dominance at the 3 point line this season, we've been able to weather Patty and Danny's drought. Having him "camped" at the line might seem like a "waste" to some people whining about it on the board, but, he really isn't a natural ball handler, and we need three point shooting, and he leads the freakin' league. All that adds up to it being a pretty good place for him to be much of the time. Not to say shot distribution is perfect, etc. But, there's nothing wrong with camping him out there as a 3-point threat. It's what the team happens to need from someone sometimes, and he's damn good at it. It's almost like he's over himself, being able to stand in the corner a bit.

If Tony can keep up his play then Kawhi can pick his spots on fastbreaks & attack the rim.

[99 Problems]

Bonner....



:lobt2: Bonner. Resting the mamba for the finals.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Watch SA get red hot from deep during the playoffs :lol

[TDfan2007]

It's definitely a worry. It would relieve a lot of Parker's backcourt load, which isn't sustainable.

Bad 3 point shooting killed us in '04, as well. And those players were supposed to be "shooters."

Ugh, I still cringe when I think about that 04 collapse against LA. 20 game winning streak for nothing...same story against Thunder in 2012

[SpursFan86]

Obviously things are looking great and there's no need to be too worried about this team...but the lack of 3-point shooting is certainly something that I could see becoming a problem down the road. Right now it's manageable because Kawhi/Tony are both shooting great. Manu is also having his best 3-point shooting season in years. But if those guys cool off a bit and others don't step it up, the Spurs could be in trouble.

Just have to hope Patty/Danny get their shit together at some point. The defense is good enough to potentially win a title even if the offense is lacking, but I don't like our chances against a team like GS/Cleveland if we're not hitting 3s.

[SpurPadre]

Bonner....

Tell me you forgot to use blue font.

[YGWHI]

Having him "camped" at the line might seem like a "waste" to some people whining about it on the board, but, he really isn't a natural ball handler, and we need three point shooting, and he leads the freakin' league. All that adds up to it being a pretty good place for him to be much of the time.

If he isn't a gifted ball handler, he won't improve parking in the corner most of the game.

Some possessions is needed to create space for others, to reserve his energy, but ...much of time? No.

[SpurPadre]

We have a guy in Rasual Butler who can help in that department and he played for a little while at the beginning but there's just too much competition for minutes factoring in other aspects of the game so he can't get in there.

[SAGirl]

Rasual Butler could rediscover his touch & have a Steve Kerr moment.
He was in uniform in this particular game. Bonner in dress clothes. But I think Pop would just as soon give first dibs to Simmons/Anderson and he did. Rasual ready there though.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Anthony Morrow? Laquon Treadwell?

[playbonner15]

Bonner....

[littlecoyotecoin]

If he isn't a gifted ball handler, he won't improve parking in the corner most of the game.

Some possessions is needed to create space for others, to reserve his energy, but ...much of time? No.

Yes. Much of the time, when he is the biggest 3 point threat on the team. He may be a good post player, but we hqve lots of those. We don't have lots of three point shooters. It's very simple, really. You are worried about trying to improve him. Stop worrying. He's in good hands.

He's also not going to become a good ball handler. That doesn't happen at this age. He is what he is. He can make some modest improvement, but it will never be his strong suit. You can't wish it true.

We have seen them attempt to force Danny to "work on his ball handling" and "decision making" when he is forced off the three point line. Danny is not a ball-handler, either. Can't put a square peg into a round hole.

Kawhi is just not going to make the leaps in ability some expect. He's already exceeded expectations by a wide margin, offensively. Keep it real.

[littlecoyotecoin]

If he isn't a gifted ball handler, he won't improve parking in the corner most of the game.

Some possessions is needed to create space for others, to reserve his energy, but ...much of time? No.

And, if you are goin to bold shit, dont change the quote when you comment on it...much and most are not the same word...most has a specific implication...greater than 50%, while much is sufficiently vague enough to leave the quantity to be determined by the coaches and players as necessary in different situations...

[100%duncan]

Also, we don't "need" to go after anyone.

The shooters on this team outside of Kawhi just need to wake the fuck up. If they do, RIP NBA.
Tbh. It has only become a problem now since green has been sucking. It is worrisome but like what I keep saying to td21, who was left in the market and what did we have to offer? Obviously Pop and co thought the team was good enough on shooting, things just havent been turning out the way they are supposed to be with Danny.

[ceperez]

Pop has to keep pushing Simmons/Anderson.
Simmons looks like he will play some minutes in the postseason. He will have to bailout Danny.
Anderson very raw, but you can never tell when Pop is about to have it with someone and throw him out there. I saw him call D'west when he was open for 3 in a corner. D'west made his shot, no big deal, but it was a good sign he was willing to take that shot aggressively.
Some of it will have to come from these guys. Even just in the regular season a couple 3s they can give you does take some pressure from others. Just got to keep pushing them.

I've always had the opinion that Simmons would be critical for playoff basketball. He plugs a gaping hole in defense.

Anderson will depend on the matchups. Against the Cavs, Anderson definitely has a big advantage over guys like Dellevedova, Smith, Shumpert and Irving. Cavs are going to bully guys like Patty. Inserting Anderson reverses the mismatch.

The key attribute though that I like with both Simmons and Anderson is that they can both score with someone covering them tightly. Notice how Aldridge just wittles under the coverage? Contrast that with West who is expecting contact and coverage, day and night. Duncan, Manu and Parker all are comfortable playing with contact, that's something absolutely necessary come playoff basketball.

[ceperez]

The problem is the 3pt shooters on this team are trying to do too much, starting with green.

He has to take, open, not open, i don´t care, i prefer a block on him over him dribbling, but he has to be mentally strong, because if he is not, then he is not reliable which takes us to....

Manu, has to play more with the starting unit, because teams, (as cleveland did today) start to disrespect our shooters, and you need someone who can punish from 3 or with a penetration or with a good dish, problem is, Manu´s workload increases a lot, because not only he has to log more minutes, but usually while the other teams starters are out there he has a tougher defensive assignment, as it was today, so he is less effective on offense, taking us too...

Boris and Mills, our other two rotational players that can take and make a 3, are streaky enough from 3, and even more when Manu is not able to create good shots for them, so it all starts with our first shooter, and goes along to the last one.

Danny just have to take his 3´s, even if he is 0-6 he needs to keep shooting, and only drive when there is no shotblocker inside, that´s his job, he is 3 and D, he is Ding, now he has to 3in to.

Green dribbling is a disaster about to happen. I agree that a block is better than him putting it on the floor.

I absoulutely hate the idea the Manu has to play more minutes and carry the team. That's going to be a recipe for disaster. Since when did a championship team lean heavily on the services of a 38 year old shooting guard? Diaw, Anderson and Simmons need to step up to the plate and take those 3 aggresively.

[ceperez]

What is Jarell Eddie up to these days?

I thought the Wizards signed him up for 2 years.

[YGWHI]

He's also not going to become a good ball handler. That doesn't happen at this age. He is what he is. He can make some modest improvement, but it will never be his strong suit. You can't wish it true.

We have seen them attempt to force Danny to "work on his ball handling" and "decision making" when he is forced off the three point line. Danny is not a ball-handler, either. Can't put a square peg into a round hole.

Kawhi is just not going to make the leaps in ability some expect. He's already exceeded expectations by a wide margin, offensively. Keep it real.

He won't be an elite ball handler but can become decent, good enough. He's learning, growing, improving fast in the last months...He's a long way away from being a finished product.

Some people said he couldn't improve his jumper...he has developed his mid-range and three point shot so well. Others said he wouldn't have the passing skills to handle and pass out of a double-team...he's doing a nice job finding the open man. People said he couldn't be a 20 ppg...he's one now.
I wouldn't bet against him, at age 24 he still has room to get better.

Also, I wouldn't compare Green to Kawhi. Even if I love Danny, he doesn't have the intensity, talent and ability to improve that Kawhi has.

[littlecoyotecoin]

He won't be an elite ball handler but can become decent, good enough. He's learning, growing, improving fast in the last months...He's a long way away from being a finished product.

Some people said he couldn't improve his jumper...he has developed his mid-range and three point shot so well. Others said he wouldn't have the passing skills to handle and pass out of a double-team...he's doing a nice job finding the open man. People said he couldn't be a 20 ppg...he's one now.
I wouldn't bet against him, at age 24 he still has room to get better.

Also, I wouldn't compare Green to Kawhi. Even if I love Danny, he doesn't have the intensity, talent and ability to improve that Kawhi has.

I do think he can get better. I don't think anything they're doing is hampering that like some seem to believe. But, I do think ball-handling is a helluva lot harder to improve than shooting or passing out of double teams, etc. He may improve in that area, but it won't be the improvement we've seen in his 3 point shooting, for example, and expecting that, or gearing your gameplan in that direction is a fool's errand, IMHO. Tim Duncan could have become a better ball-handler, too, but you still wouldn't have wanted him doing much of it even if he had made a 10% improvement. That's not to tAke anything away from Tim Duncan. Let the game come to Kawhi.

[024]

Green is actually shooting 50% 3PT for the month of January. So let's just hope he's moving back towards his average. Spurs have no choice but to believe in Green. No one else on the bench can take his place. Anderson and Simmons can't shoot 3's and both need the ball to be effective. Manu needs to stay on the bench to lead the 2nd unit. Butler seems to be buried at the end of the bench and Mills is too short to guard starting SG's. Doubt Pop will make a midseason trade when they are 35-6.

[cutewizard]

Where is Ray Allen now? hmmmmmm??

[spursistan]

if Manu & Green hit their wide open threes..NBA :lol

[cjw]

Diaw is a wildcard here. Not reliable, but needs to take shots when given to him and hit at an okay rate so the defense doesn't collapse.

Wish LMA got some 3pt looks - has shown he can shoot it in the mid 30s.

[boutons_deux]

Danny's tech FT didn't even get in the cylinder. His shooting is disastrous.

[Kawhitstorm]

if Manu & Green hit their wide open threes..NBA :lol

Hopefully, it's the the reverse of last season when he was great in the regular season but couldn't buy a shot against the Clippers.:lol (I remember Stephen Jackson being terrible in the regular season & lighting it up in the 2012 postseason; same w/ Patty last season)

[Kawhitstorm]

Diaw is a wildcard here. Not reliable, but needs to take shots when given to him and hit at an okay rate so the defense doesn't collapse.

Wish LMA got some 3pt looks - has shown he can shoot it in the mid 30s.

David West can probably shoot 3s at a respectable rate like Diaw but he's the 17 ft assassin. :toast

[SpursIndonesia]

David West can probably shoot 3s at a respectable rate like Diaw but he's the 17 ft assassin. :toast

Can't deliver elbows & fight for offensive rebound from the 3pt line man, Boris will suffice as our main stretch 4, and hey, Red Mamba is still on the roster last time i looked at it. :D

[Kikoluna]

Um, you do realize we're 36-6.

[ceperez]

Um, you do realize we're 36-6.

Yes, but the 3 point shooting averages are down this year as well as percentages.

Spurs are attempting 3 less attempts per game from the champion season and with a percentage lower than the last 6 years (with the exception of last year).

On the bright side, Kawhi and Parker are shooting more and with a higher percentage. The downside is that Green has been pretty pathetic.

[From Downtown]

if Manu & Green hit their wide open threes..NBA :lol
yeah,Manu has gone ice cold from 3 the last couple of games,Patty has been like that since the start of 2016 and Danny has been shooting like shit too...and we're 36-6

[ceperez]

yeah,Manu has gone ice cold from 3 the last couple of games,Patty has been like that since the start of 2016 and Danny has been shooting like shit too...and we're 36-6

Just because the team is winning doesn't mean that being ice cold at the 3 is a good thing.

I think other players are stepping up though, last game it was Boris and Simmons.

[From Downtown]

Just because the team is winning doesn't mean that being ice cold at the 3 is a good thing.

I think other players are stepping up though, last game it was Boris and Simmons.
That's not what I'm saying,of course we need our guys to shoot the 3 well if we wanna beat GSW in a 7 games series (and I'm hopeful they WILL step up),but the record we have despite Patty's and Danny's struggles (Manu was shooting 39% from downtown till the Cavs game,so I wouldn't say he's struggling,he's just gone cold the last couple of games as I said) shows that this team has so many weapons,and that's a good thing

[Tully365]

It's a small sample size of 8 games, but for the month of January, Green is shooting 43.8% on 3pt shots. He has shot over 40% for the last 4 seasons, so I'm really not worried about him, unless there's an undisclosed nagging injury. With Kawhi raising his usage rate and Aldridge in town, it kind of makes sense that Green's ppg would go down, and to be honest he might be better off becoming less & less a focus of the opposing teams' defense. The Spurs won 3 championships with Bruce Bowen averaging about the same as Green is now, and that was while playing 5-7 more minutes per game. For me the problem comes in the next 2 years, when both Parker & Manu gradually have smaller roles and the issue will be finding a reliable guard to bring the ball up... that's Green's biggest shortcoming, being a guard who can't for even limited minutes be counted on to simply bring the ball up court...

[Spursmania]

Not panicking because it's still early, but hopefully Danny finds his stroke again. He alone would completely change the dynamic of this offense if he starts hitting like he's capable of.

Been saying that it's early since the season started. I remember my sister visiting in November and complaining about Green, and I was like hey the guy defends well and he can shoot -he's just a little off now, but he'll get his groovy.

Yet, we are mid January and he continues to disappoint. I am getting worried. Verde can shoot we all know that not sure why he's gone mental, but we are going to need him badly against OKC, the Clips and GS, if the Spurs are going to bring home number 6. We badly need our 3 point shooter back.

[Obstructed_View]

Maybe they should spend garbage time of one of these games just feeding him the ball.

[SAGirl]

Yes, but the 3 point shooting averages are down this year as well as percentages.

Spurs are attempting 3 less attempts per game from the champion season and with a percentage lower than the last 6 years (with the exception of last year).

On the bright side, Kawhi and Parker are shooting more and with a higher percentage. The downside is that Green has been pretty pathetic.

Danny may sink us if he continues on this path. We are already relying more on Simmons than Pop would normally want to with his natural reluctance to play rookies. Lucky for us, Simmons has come through, but the downside of that equation is that I have become really disappointed in Danny. He still makes good defensive plays, but he's becoming Tony Allen. Guys like that are not playable in the playoffs and they are not paid $10 mill a year. He was paid that bc of his combination of premier 3 pt shooting and elite defense. If he's not hitting the 3... we are in trouble.

[GSH]

Maybe they should spend garbage time of one of these games just feeding him the ball.


LOL. If only that could happen, it might fix everything.

[SAGirl]

LOL. If only that could happen, it might fix everything.


Maybe they should spend garbage time of one of these games just feeding him the ball.

He already got open shots against the Mavs. He played a ton of garbage time. Anderson would probably have a couple more assists with open 3s he got for Danny. In fact people were complaining in the Mavs game thread that were loosing our big lead bc we kept feeding Danny. I think his issue is mental, or worse. Someone mentioned the yips.

[GSH]

He already got open shots against the Mavs. He played a ton of garbage time. Anderson would probably have a couple more assists with open 3s he got for Danny. In fact people were complaining in the Mavs game thread that were loosing our big lead bc we kept feeding Danny. I think his issue is mental, or worse. Someone mentioned the yips.


We should have used blue. The last few minutes of that blowout were all about feeding Danny. Clank...Clank...Clank.

I don't think he's fixed.

Nice -oop, though, with a minute left in doesn't-matter-time. :tu

[ceperez]

Danny may sink us if he continues on this path. We are already relying more on Simmons than Pop would normally want to with his natural reluctance to play rookies. Lucky for us, Simmons has come through, but the downside of that equation is that I have become really disappointed in Danny. He still makes good defensive plays, but he's becoming Tony Allen. Guys like that are not playable in the playoffs and they are not paid $10 mill a year. He was paid that bc of his combination of premier 3 pt shooting and elite defense. If he's not hitting the 3... we are in trouble.

Absolutely, Spurs are in trouble if they don't improve their 3 point game. Dubs just destroyed the Cavs and they did it by having every play not hesitate in taking the 3. It was like they relished the opportunity of taking a 3. Kind of like the way Patty is always looking for an inch of daylight.

Spurs mind set is the reverse. It is like they are searching for a more open shot or a shot in the paint.

Spurs may not be able to win if GSW attempts 40 3 point attempts a game.

[popdagreat]

Does green makes hes 3's during warmups?

[ceperez]

I think the problem with Green is he knows that there are other offensive option and that's messing up his consistency.

Green needs to play with urgency. In previous years, there was nobody else who could score. So when he saw daylight, he made the most of that opportunity.

Today, he knows he doesn't need to make the shot, so he bails for another option. Spurs still winning with only 6 loses.

Not good if we go up against the likes of GSW.

[Obstructed_View]

We should have used blue. The last few minutes of that blowout were all about feeding Danny. Clank...Clank...Clank.

I don't think he's fixed.

Nice -oop, though, with a minute left in doesn't-matter-time. :tu

Yeah, the four guys at the end of the bench and a starter for garbage time. It didn't work. I'm starting to think that Pop is worried that he'll break Danny by taking him out of the starting lineup. If he hasn't had a couple of big games by the end of the RRT, you'll see something more drastic.

[ceperez]

Yeah, the four guys at the end of the bench and a starter for garbage time. It didn't work. I'm starting to think that Pop is worried that he'll break Danny by taking him out of the starting lineup. If he hasn't had a couple of big games by the end of the RRT, you'll see something more drastic.

Pop will continue to start Green because he's most effective with the starters. With the bench, he's a complete disaster.

[Obstructed_View]

Pop will continue to start Green because he's most effective with the starters. With the bench, he's a complete disaster.

You can't hide him forever. If the Spurs want to win a championship, they need more production from their starting guard.

[ceperez]

You can't hide him forever. If the Spurs want to win a championship, they need more production from their starting guard.

Would you rather Green not play at all?

[Sec24Row7]

My take is...


They are finally finding Danny with the amount of separation he was used to and in his spots. It's just a matter of time before he is back in the full swing. Aldridge/west/Leonard taking more midrange and working more inside out is what screwed him in the first part of the year. Most of Danny's threes have come from the corner in the past... Or in transition.


THE TEAM, is taking fewer of those now. Parker, Gino and Bobo are usually the ones that generate corner 3's, and they have had the ball less when green is on the floor.

That's the way it feels to me... Don't have any stats to back it up.

[Obstructed_View]

Would you rather Green not play at all?

If this is the way he's going to play from here on out, he needs to drop in the rotation.

[SAGirl]

If this is the way he's going to play from here on out, he needs to drop in the rotation.
He's been difficult to watch. What also pisses me off is that he really has a low BBIQ. He consistently fails to make the right BB play. He misses open guys and instead forces up bad shots. This is nothing new, but I could overlook it when he was making his shots an making defensive hustle plays. He's improved defensively --He didn't start out well in that department either.-- and has attempted to limit his boneheaded plays, but we still see a few of those every game, meanwhile his shot is missing. Right now, Danny is my least liked Spur. I am starting to feel we could start Simmons, give the rest of the minutes to Anderson and we would not be much worse. Danny has been that bad. Even with his most recent better games this month, he still has the worst statistical impact than the other two young wings and watching the games you understand, the number of times Pop has already subbed him out early in favor of Simmons bc Danny is stinking it up. If he were in a tryout for the team, I pick both Simmons and Anderson b4 Danny.

I think I have had it. I hope he comes through for us soon because the schedule is getting tougher, but if he doesn't, I am going to go all ceperez on Danny like Ceperez had gone on Lamarcus.

[SAGirl]

Would you rather Green not play at all?
I am close to that. If he doesn't come through for us in the next few games he's going to be through. He's more Richard Jefferson than the guy you have been harping on all season in LMA.

[raybies]

That's what I keep wondering, when is pop gonna shorten his leash. It's not like pop to give so much slack for this long of stretch for a non big 3 player. I mean he did for Parker last year but is green held in that regard now? Green's contract must of really had a impact on pop. I think the only way he loses his spot in the starting lineup is if his poor play single handedly costs us a game and I hope it's not against the warriors.

[tonight...you]

we blow the fuck out of the league and its contenders with way our D locks down...there were like 4/5 daggers WIDE OPEN 3s missed by Manu/Green to make this +15 by mid fourth and completely bury the Cavs..

It is just incredible how streaky and unreliable we've become from distance(5-17 tonight)...Maybe the improvement comes from within (Simmons?) because I'm near going to give up on Green and his ICY SEASON...All the hope is we don't die by it in in the postseason especially against the Dubs..
If wishes were fishes... No team is perfect, bud. I feel good about this one. We'll see how it all plays out. This could be a Year For The Ages.

[tonight...you]

That's what I keep wondering, when is pop gonna shorten his leash. It's not like pop to give so much slack for this long of stretch for a non big 3 player. I mean he did for Parker last year but is green held in that regard now? Green's contract must of really had a impact on pop. I think the only way he loses his spot in the starting lineup is if his poor play single handedly costs us a game and I hope it's not against the warriors.
Green just signed a multi-year. He HAS to see if Green can play out of this stretch of badness.
Pop is a bit Zen like Phil: he'll ride this out and feed confidence until it's the point of no return, which will be later than we think it should be.

Whatevs. You and I can't control it.

[ceperez]

I think I have had it. I hope he comes through for us soon because the schedule is getting tougher, but if he doesn't, I am going to go all ceperez on Danny like Ceperez had gone on Lamarcus.

I admit that Green has nowhere near the basketball talent of either Simmons or Anderson, however he's got an uncanny transition defense and a *potentially* lethal 3 point shot.

He deserves some slack and Spurs need that additional SG occupied to prevent Manu from driving himself into exhaustion.

[littlecoyotecoin]

At this point, I am going to have to say that the criticism of Danny is getting way overdone. I am guilty. I poke fun and laugh at him, too, when the obvious Keystone Cop play transpires just as one expects when we see him put the ball on the floor. They pushed him, it appeared in the beginning of the season, to try to work on his dribbling, driving, and passing when pushed off the three point line. It was, to no big surprise, mostly a failure. If he stops the creative passing off the closeout drive, gets more conservative, takes a one dribble reset if short in the shot clock and shoots a reset three or long two if he HAS to (turning a bunch of turnovers and low percentage shots into just low percentage shots), or passes to an outlet back around the arc, etc, if there's still time on the shot clock (for a higher percentage shot), and otherwise just takes his normal 3's when available, he can be back to a more normal version of 3&D Danny in no time.

Another poster has stated that he's shooting 43% in January from 3, yet a lot of posters act as if he's getting worse, when he's actually getting better. At least from 3.

It's just a matter of dialing back his off-the-dribble 2point attempts, now, and ramping the D back up, or at least maintaining it.

He is somewhat reminiscent of Jeff Ayres when he attempts to handle the ball, but he really doesn't need to as much as he was earlier in the season, I don't believe. Pop was just giving him a little rope. He hung himself. Pop can dial it back, I think, and Danny can still be an effective 3&D guy.

[SAGirl]

Green just signed a multi-year. He HAS to see if Green can play out of this stretch of badness.
Pop is a bit Zen like Phil: he'll ride this out and feed confidence until it's the point of no return, which will be later than we think it should be.

Whatevs. You and I can't control it.
I think he will stay put in his role like Tony last season. Hopefully he comes through when we need him but he's going to get minutes regardless. He has all season to get out of this funk. He will just continue to further Simmons' s development at the cost of his own minutes but I don't think he gets completely benched. The playoffs however are different.

[SAGirl]

At this point, I am going to have to say that the criticism of Danny is getting way overdone. I am guilty. I poke fun and laugh at him, too, when the obvious Keystone Cop play transpires just as one expects when we see him put the ball on the floor. They pushed him, it appeared in the beginning of the season, to try to work on his dribbling, driving, and passing when pushed off the three point line. It was, to no big surprise, mostly a failure. If he stops the creative passing off the closeout drive, gets more conservative, takes a one dribble reset if short in the shot clock and shoots a reset three or long two if he HAS to (turning a bunch of turnovers and low percentage shots into just low percentage shots), or passes to an outlet back around the arc, etc, if there's still time on the shot clock (for a higher percentage shot), and otherwise just takes his normal 3's when available, he can be back to a more normal version of 3&D Danny in no time.

Another poster has stated that he's shooting 43% in January from 3, yet a lot of posters act as if he's getting worse, when he's actually getting better. At least from 3.

It's just a matter of dialing back his off-the-dribble 2point attempts, now, and ramping the D back up, or at least maintaining it.

He is somewhat reminiscent of Jeff Ayres when he attempts to handle the ball, but he really doesn't need to as much as he was earlier in the season, I don't believe. Pop was just giving him a little rope. He hung himself. Pop can dial it back, I think, and Danny can still be an effective 3&D guy.
That 43% is boosted by the only game this season he went HOT and made 6/8 threes. Overall one hot game does not make up for a bunch of icy games and some mediocre ones. If you take that single game away, he's right back where he started.

[littlecoyotecoin]

That 43% is boosted by the only game this season he went HOT and made 6/8 threes. Overall one hot game does not make up for a bunch of icy games and some mediocre ones. If you take that single game away, he's right back where he started.

Shots in January are shots in January. It is what it is. If I can go back and throw out six of his misses in December, guess what, he looks like a better shooter in December. January isn't over. He could stink it up, but he's not, yet. You want to throw out a huge percentage of a small sample just because it doesn't fit the narrative. At best, you can say inconclusive. But, it's much more in agreement with reversion toward his mean than it is proof of a new paradigm.

[SAGirl]

Shots in January are shots in January. It is what it is. If I can go back and throw out six of his misses in December, guess what, he looks like a better shooter in December. January isn't over. He could stink it up, but he's not, yet. You want to throw out a huge percentage of a small sample just because it doesn't fit the narrative. At best, you can say inconclusive. But, it's much more in agreement with reversion toward his mean than it is proof of a new paradigm.
If you select just January you are still being selective. He's 33% for the season for a specialist, whose thing is the 3. He had one game, a single game all season he made a lot of 3s. He's still 33 % for the season and about that same number fir the month save the anomaly that is a single game in the entire season.

My problem with that is that he's a specialist like Bonner. If he's not hitting the 3 at an elite rate they all of a sudden are sinking your team. Granted Danny does a whole lot more than Bonner but those other things can be provided by others who also give you more versatility.

I have quite honestly soured on Danny. He's limited any way you put it, and he's failing to do the . One thing he was really good at. That just magnifies everything else he does poorly.

[timtonymanu]

I still believe in Danny. You guys are in for a rude awakening if you want Simmons to start over him.

[littlecoyotecoin]

If you select just January you are still being selective. He's 33% for the season for a specialist, whose thing is the 3. He had one game, a single game all season he made a lot of 3s. He's still 33 % for the season and about that same number fir the month save the anomaly that is a single game in the entire season.

My problem with that is that he's a specialist like Bonner. If he's not hitting the 3 at an elite rate they all of a sudden are sinking your team. Granted Danny does a whole lot more than Bonner but those other things can be provided by others who also give you more versatility.

I have quite honestly soured on Danny. He's limited any way you put it, and he's failing to do the . One thing he was really good at. That just magnifies everything else he does poorly.

Of course I am being selective. I was talking about the supposed trend, and using data supplied for this month by another poster. The narrative is that he has gotten worse and reached a plateaued low or is getting worse. The narrative has not been that he is getting better and reverting toward his mean: a 40+% career 3 point shooter, probably, but surely that after his first two years in the league. I'm not throwing out any data. I am comparing this month to previous months. And, accepting that it is incomplete.

On the other hand, you, out of no where, want to throw out a bunch of data.

And, you're concluding he's a 33% 3 point shooter for the season, when the season is only half over. But, I will admit, he will remain a poor looking shooter if we throw out a bunch of his makes because it's not fair that...what...he had a good shooting night?

Just checking, again, but we're not going back and throwing out a bunch of misses on nights where he shot poorly, right? That's the fair thing to do with outliers if you are trying to be fair. To be honest, compared with his entire body of work, if we want to throw out outliers, it would be November and December.

[SAGirl]

Of course I am being selective. I was talking about the supposed trend, and using data supplied for this month by another poster. The narrative is that he has gotten worse and reached a plateaued low or is getting worse. The narrative has not been that he is getting better and reverting toward his mean: a 40+% career 3 point shooter, probably, but surely that after his first two years in the league. I'm not throwing out any data. I am comparing this month to previous months. And, accepting that it is incomplete.

On the other hand, you, out of no where, want to throw out a bunch of data.

And, you're concluding he's a 33% 3 point shooter for the season, when the season is only half over. But, I will admit, he will remain a poor looking shooter if we throw out a bunch of his makes because it's not fair that...what...he had a good shooting night?

Just checking, again, but we're not going back and throwing out a bunch of misses on nights where he shot poorly, right? That's the fair thing to do with outliers if you are trying to be fair. To be honest, compared with his entire body of work, if we want to throw out outliers, it would be November and December.
No I am just saying he's been off more than on for ALL of the season and the supposed trend is boosted by a single game where in the same span he's had 0-fers from 3 multiple games. He didn't score against the Mac's until garbage time for example and was 0-4 from 3 and they were open shots..... to be convinced he's "trending" up I require more than that single game. When viewed in the context of his season that game appeared to signal he had turned a corner, but since then he's reverts to his mean this season. That game seem more like the isolated case rather than the trend. Granted the season is not over and I have been among those more consistent in supporting his minutes and his starting roles, but since then he's continued clanking a lot of shots and has in the process become a very hard to watch player.

When he shoots I don't think it's going to go in anymore.... it used to be the reverse

[littlecoyotecoin]

Still boils down to you thinking that one game doesn't count in some way. His o'fers you refer to still average in with that game just the same. O'fer three and 6/8 still give you 6/11. You're entitled to be sour on him, but that doesn't change the math.

You're wanting to make some kind of sample size argument when the largest sample of all would still imply this is just an anomaly.

And since January apparently doesn't count, you're abandoning your faith in his ability to shoot on, basically, two months. Two months where it looks like they were experimenting with his ball handling a bit (I expect his shooting to suffer the more he dribbles), and during a two month time when they're incorporating new players. Another reason not to be too surprised at some drop off.

I looked it up. He's .410 career and .429 in the playoffs.

I think it unwise to think that kind of track record shooting ends the season .33 or lower, as the team gets more comfortable and experienced with each other, adjustments are made, etc.

If you give me two bets, one that this month is indicative of a reversion to the mean and he continues to shoot better from three the remainder of the season than he did in November and December or two...he stays at that Nov/Dec level or worse...

The first bet seems far, FAR safer.

So safe, I would make a substantial wager on it if I were prone to doing so on message boards, which I'm not.

As usual, time will tell.

[littlecoyotecoin]

A little factoid: One time I thought Bonner was just done, about 3-4 years ago. His one mail skill, shooting the three. He just couldn't do. I thought every game he got to play in and shoot in that regular season, he just missed. What good was he, then?

Then someone pointed out he was shooting .41, career average. My perception was just skewed.

[GSH]

He's been difficult to watch. What also pisses me off is that he really has a low BBIQ.


Danny doesn't have a low BBIQ. He's lost his confidence, and he has grown hesitant. And that is one thing that will simply kill you in any competitive sport. Even in a slow-paced, individual sport like golf, hesitation - failure to commit - you're dead in the water.

Danny started being too hesitant to take 3P shots. Now it's gotten to the point that he's hesitant on defense. I commented on it probably a couple of weeks ago. He's not stupid - he's second-guessing himself. They need to get him with a really good sports psychologist, or they need to get someone else in the starting lineup with enough time to get ready for the post-season.

I really, really like Danny. But he's broken. The Spurs need his defense (and his 3P shooting). But he's not defending like Danny lately. And he's in one of those loops that feeds itself. If they can't help him get his confidence back, he's going to keep getting worse.

It's called the yips. Google "Mackey Sasser". It's a true story, and it ended his baseball career. Danny is approaching that kind of yips, IMO.

[SAGirl]

He's going to get all season to get out of his funk. I don't think Pop benches him for that. Not long ago I read an article about Tim's midrange shot and the season it disappeared. He shot it all season and it never came back. During the playoffs, Pop just made an adjustment and he didn't take that shot. For Timmy it's age, possibly the knee bothering him, or getting some unbalance due to the knee. He's since tried to regain that shot but it's gone. For Danny, if the,shot is not falling you can't tell him not to take it, but he might be unplayable and that is a loosing scenario.

Last season Bonner shot 36% from 3, which was terrible for his own personal record and also bc he's a limited player and his best contribution is that 3. It was also unfortunate bc Tiago was injured a lot and Bonner ended up starting a lot of games for us and played a lot of real minutes and not just garbage time. His best shooting would have been useful but he didn't have it. What I remember the most is that he didn't have it when it was needed very often. At one point last season he was at 30% while in the rotation. He eventually "trended up", but the shot wasn't as reliable as it had been and was no doubt boosted later in the season in garbage time. He then said he had an elbow injury.

Danny I don't think has any of these issues. He did have hesitation, doubt and was trying to do too much, specially early. He has since cleaned up the effort to try to do too much and has tried to keep it simple. Save 1 game, he's still mostly been off. I d o t discount the one game, but at the time it signalled he was coming out of his funk, but has since then gone back to his icy games. His misses are not even rimming out which lends credence to GSH. He has many wide off the mark misses where his shot was not even in the right direction.

[raybies]

One of the reasons I think his spot is off is because he's too comfortable. He's got it made. Before if he made mistakes he'd get pulled immediately or if his spot was off he'd get pulled. He had his first few shots to prove his time. If he made them he stayed if not he lost time. But then we had Marco, a veteran who could earn more time. Note we have an unproven rookie so I guess that factors into pops reluctance. But now with Simmons showing so much, pop has the luxury to sit danny more. Kinda like Houston riding hoyer till the end cause they didn't really have another option. I hope that's not us. How much more does Simmons have to show to get more of greens minutes while he slumps?

To answer the question, I think it does help. Danny has shown a history of doing work when a fire is lit under his ass. He needs to be coached, and coached hard. No more kissing his ass. He needs to do his job or he's gonna sit. You got two players that are stepping up in their very limited role and pop has given opportunities to players in these situations historically. Pop may not like it, but half the season is gone and all this slack hasn't helped. Danny is just hanging himself with all that rope. My opinion

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

What I find funny about this is, despite the recent struggles of Mills and Green, the Spurs are still 2nd in the league in 3pt % at nearly 38%. I guess we have just grown accustomed to the 40-41% 3pt shooting by the Spurs. When those two get clicking again, the Spurs will be back over .400.

[Seventyniner]

I don't want Danny to shoot 42% from 3 for the season, that would mean he'd have to go ~50% for the rest of the season which is highly unlikely. I just want him to hit 42% of his threes for the rest of the season.

[littlecoyotecoin]

I don't want Danny to shoot 42% from 3 for the season, that would mean he'd have to go ~50% for the rest of the season which is highly unlikely. I just want him to hit 42% of his threes for the rest of the season.

That would be fine.

[couchman]

Chip clearly needs to spend some time with Danny Green. After watching him this year I can convinced that Danny has changed his shooting stroke a little bit and that is the source of his trouble. It looks to me that Danny is cocking the ball further back on his shooting motion. Instead of a smooth motion going up he is slinging the ball back and then forward on a lot of his attempts. I think this can be fixed and I can only assume that Chip is working w Green on it.

[Chinook]

Pop should have benched him weeks ago. His head's not right. Pop also should give him more time as the team's designated on-ball defender. Besides that Knicks game, Green has been an afterthought on both sides for most of the season. So if he's on the bench, Pop can sub Kawhi at a reasonable time and have Danny spend minutes on the Durants, Melos and Jameses, who he defends well. And Pop can call plays for Green (especially ones inside the arc) that he just doesn't call with the first unit.

In the interim, you can give Anderson/Simmons more time with the starters. That will be good in general and especially if Green can't come back. As of right now, Pop's "I haven't said anything to him about it", just seems silly. He's been tough-loving Danny his whole career, and now he's just going to not say anything to him?

[Chinook]

Chip clearly needs to spend some time with Danny Green. After watching him this year I can convinced that Danny has changed his shooting stroke a little bit and that is the source of his trouble. It looks to me that Danny is cocking the ball further back on his shooting motion. Instead of a smooth motion going up he is slinging the ball back and then forward on a lot of his attempts. I think this can be fixed and I can only assume that Chip is working w Green on it.

We gotta get Birn in here to complain about someone analyzing shooting motions.

[Obstructed_View]

You're wanting to make some kind of sample size argument when the largest sample of all would still imply this is just an anomaly.
The largest sample of all would be this season, and that sample says it's not an anomaly.

[littlecoyotecoin]

The largest sample of all would be this season, and that sample says it's not an anomaly.

No. Pretty sure his career numbers are a far larger sample.

[ceperez]

Pop should have benched him weeks ago. His head's not right. Pop also should give him more time as the team's designated on-ball defender. Besides that Knicks game, Green has been an afterthought on both sides for most of the season. So if he's on the bench, Pop can sub Kawhi at a reasonable time and have Danny spend minutes on the Durants, Melos and Jameses, who he defends well. And Pop can call plays for Green (especially ones inside the arc) that he just doesn't call with the first unit.

In the interim, you can give Anderson/Simmons more time with the starters. That will be good in general and especially if Green can't come back. As of right now, Pop's "I haven't said anything to him about it", just seems silly. He's been tough-loving Danny his whole career, and now he's just going to not say anything to him?

I suspect Pop is pretty happy with Green's defense.

[SAGirl]

Pop should have benched him weeks ago. His head's not right. Pop also should give him more time as the team's designated on-ball defender. Besides that Knicks game, Green has been an afterthought on both sides for most of the season. So if he's on the bench, Pop can sub Kawhi at a reasonable time and have Danny spend minutes on the Durants, Melos and Jameses, who he defends well. And Pop can call plays for Green (especially ones inside the arc) that he just doesn't call with the first unit.

In the interim, you can give Anderson/Simmons more time with the starters. That will be good in general and especially if Green can't come back. As of right now, Pop's "I haven't said anything to him about it", just seems silly. He's been tough-loving Danny his whole career, and now he's just going to not say anything to him?
I would not have expected you to have this opinion, since you are his strong supporter. I do think it makes a whole lot of sense what you propose.

No. 1 Kawhi rests a few minutes. He already does a lot and has a burden offensively that requires him to get to close the game out with fresh legs.

No. 2: Both Simmons and Anderson get more opportunities. Simmons specially has already come through some games. He needs more experience and may have to bail guys out in the hothouse that is the playoffs. He could use playing against starters to get more seasoning and also so the coaches can determine whether or not he really can handle playoff competition this season.

No. 3. Anderson has played quality minutes against some play-off teams already but he's been pushed out, lacking opportunities. He's bailed out Diaw in 3 games already. Two were playoff teams. I don't see him playing in the postseason at all bc of his lack of opportunities to get experience. He simply won't be ready at this rate, and you never know how matches will work themselves out, who will get foul trouble, or who is going to leave his game at home. He can play, there is just no playing time without benching someone valuable.

Early season it looked like the intention was for Manu to rest more games than he's rested. I suspected that was to get younger guys experience and get them ready fir Manu's retirement and soon larger roles as well as for Manu's benefit. But I fear GSW hot start coupled with the team's reliance on Manu to rescue cold/slow starts in games have edged Anderson out through no fault of his own. And Manu's own competitive spirit will not allow him to defer. Simmons emergence and need for experience has also been a factor but none of those things are within Anderson's control. He can only control his effort in whatever chances he gets and he's played well.

[Obstructed_View]

No. Pretty sure his career numbers are a far larger sample.

Since you've been arguing whether or not to include one game to bump up his average, both the season and career numbers are larger samples. I don't care which we use, but we'll look at his career numbers since you mentioned it.

His three point percentage by year has been 44, 43, 42, 42, and this year it's 33. He's shot 42 percent from three up until this year.

A 23 percent drop in his three point shooting over a half a season is more than an anomaly.

[Obstructed_View]

I would not have expected you to have this opinion, since you are his strong supporter.

I don't think anyone that wants him benched is in favor of it as a means to run Danny out of the rotation. It's because we support him that we see how much the team's going to need him, and something needs to be done pretty soon. I imagine the Warriors game will be his final exam.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Since you've been arguing whether or not to include one game to bump up his average, both the season and career numbers are larger samples. I don't care which we use, but we'll look at his career numbers since you mentioned it.

His three point percentage by year has been 44, 43, 42, 42, and this year it's 33. He's shot 42 percent from three up until this year.

A 23 percent drop in his three point shooting over a half a season is more than an anomaly.

His career number is one number. You're looking at his seasonal averages. And then comparing them to half a season.

I am comparing the months of Nov and Dec to his single career regular season number of .410, and yes, those two months are closer to being an anomaly than January is, thus far, which is what SAgirl is saying, because his January number contains one particularly good game.

The term "reversion to the mean" is probably a textbook application, here.

Danny was never a great player, and he isn't broken now. He's in between. He is what he is, and he'll shoot better in the future. He may already be shooting better, but January isn't enough evidence to convince anyone.

I posit that if he doesn't dribble and turnover the ball, his shooting woes aren't nearly as demonized by viewers. His errors handling the ball exaggerate his ineffectiveness.

[Obstructed_View]

His career number is one number. You're looking at his seasonal averages. And then comparing them to half a season.
I listed his season averages, then I looked at his career number with the Spurs, and compared it to this season. His percentage has gone down by nearly a quarter. That's pretty broken.

Sorry, but one game doesn't constitute regression to the mean. I think doing something to snap him out of his funk will encourage that, but it's pretty tough to put lipstick on the pig that's his shooting through 42 games.

[littlecoyotecoin]

I listed his season averages, then I looked at his career number with the Spurs, and compared it to this season. His percentage has gone down by nearly a quarter. That's pretty broken.

Sorry, but one game doesn't constitute regression to the mean. I think doing something to snap him out of his funk will encourage that, but it's pretty tough to put lipstick on the pig that's his shooting through 42 games.

No one said one game constitutes regression toward the mean. But, you can't throw it out, either, which is what you seem to be wanting to do, or at least as SAgirl is wanting to do. That is as much part of the data set as is his bad numbers. There is no reason to throw it out except that it doesn't fit the narrative that he is now a 33% shooter. But, throw out the data if you want, even if it constructs a month that is pretty much right in line with his large sample career number.

And, no one's been trying to put lipstick on a pig that has been his shooting for the first half of the season. It's pretty well documented that it's been bad in comparison to his career number. The exception being that January is shaping up better and may be a start toward a reversion toward the mean. The fact that it's skewed a little by one game doesn't really matter if you look back at it next year and he shot 41% for the rest of this year. It's made a big deal of here and now, though, but it shouldn't matter much.

But, sure, 33% is pretty bad for him. No argument.

The obsession with throwing out that game because it was "one game" though, that just doesnt work. A month is made up of maybe 10 games. You don't just get to throw out 10% of the data because it doesn't fit the narrative, and again, January is right in line with his career number. If you sprinkle those makes over three or four games it makes him more consistent, but doesn't change the monthy shooting percentage, so who GAF?

And these last two months, using a null hypothesis that he is a 41% career shooter, I have to say that Nov and Dec being .33 or whatever, doubtfully cause you to reject the null. But, whatevs.

Danny is not a career .41 shooter from 3. Due to his performance in Nov and Dec, he is now a .33 3 point shooter.

I concede.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Pop likely hasn't made too many changes because he won't knee-jerk to two months of bad shooting during a time when they've been implementing changes. He's even-keeled, and probably believes things will level out. Seems reasonable to me.

[ceperez]

Green doesn't need to even look at the stats to know he is 'sucking'. Tim Duncun said so himself.

However, you are right that the big 20 percentage point drop is not an anomaly. Green's real problem is his lack of urgency. If you are blowing away teams, then you don't really need to perform.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Duncan said that because he doesn't think it's a big deal, either. It's good-natured ribbing.

When a guy goes ofer in a game, you don't then expect him to go ofer in every game thereafter. You get to see an improvement in the next game. When Danny has a couple of bad months, it will take months to see a correction in monthly numbers, but those two months aren't anything to worry about in the long-term, necessarily. I would worry after a much longerer sequence. That being said, yea...Danny has sucked.

[GSH]

His career number is one number. You're looking at his seasonal averages. And then comparing them to half a season.


So far this season, he has put up 178 3P attempts. That is more than an adequate sample size to conclude that something has changed this year, vs. his prior seasons. End of story on sample size.



No one said one game constitutes regression toward the mean.

But, sure, 33% is pretty bad for him. No argument.
Bad for him isn't the issue. It's bad for the NBA. If it's a guy who scores other ways, and he occasionally shoots 3-pointers at a .333 clip, that's one thing. But when his major offensive contribution is from the 3P line, it's unacceptable anywhere.

The obsession with throwing out that game because it was "one game" though, that just doesnt work.
If you knew half as much about analysis as you think you do, you would understand the term "outlier". And depending on what type of analysis you're doing there are times when it's not only legit to toss an outlier, it's absolutely necessary.

Danny is not a career .41 shooter from 3. Due to his performance in Nov and Dec, he is now a .33 3 point shooter.

I concede.
It doesn't matter whether you concede or not, your above statement is true. Doesn't mean he can't be fixed, but until he is, he is what he is.




It really doesn't matter what Danny has done over his career. That's for people on fan sites to use for Top 10 lists. In professional sports, all that matters is what you're doing right now - more to the point, what you are going to do next game. With half a season in the books, you have to assume that Danny's next game is going to be a lot like most of the other games he's played this season. Well... YOU don't have to assume that, because your season isn't on the line. But Pop and the rest of Spurs' management will be looking at it exactly the way I just said. You're confident that he will start playing better this season, because he played better before.

I was a Danny Green fan from the first pre-season game he played in SA. But right now, I'm much more concerned with the fact that I see his confidence problems bleeding over into his defense. The players in the NBA are so good, and so fast, if you have any hesitation, they're going to burn you. If I'm reading it right, he's going to be a liability by playoff time. That's just an opinion because, believe it or not, some things are not a math function.

[littlecoyotecoin]

So far this season, he has put up 178 3P attempts. That is more than an adequate sample size to conclude that something has changed this year, vs. his prior seasons. End of story on sample size.





It really doesn't matter what Danny has done over his career. That's for people on fan sites to use for Top 10 lists. In professional sports, all that matters is what you're doing right now - more to the point, what you are going to do next game. With half a season in the books, you have to assume that Danny's next game is going to be a lot like most of the other games he's played this season. Well... YOU don't have to assume that, because your season isn't on the line. But Pop and the rest of Spurs' management will be looking at it exactly the way I just said. You're confident that he will start playing better this season, because he played better before.

I was a Danny Green fan from the first pre-season game he played in SA. But right now, I'm much more concerned with the fact that I see his confidence problems bleeding over into his defense. The players in the NBA are so good, and so fast, if you have any hesitation, they're going to burn you. If I'm reading it right, he's going to be a liability by playoff time. That's just an opinion because, believe it or not, some things are not a math function.

If you say it's the end of the story, I guess it's the end of the story, then.

[GSH]

If you say it's the end of the story, I guess it's the end of the story, then.

If you say that 178 attempts is too small of a sample size, you're too ignorant to argue with. Either way, it's the end of that particular story.

And if you want to use sarcasm, you'll have to do better than that.

[littlecoyotecoin]

I never said it was too small of a sample. You're reading into things and putting words in my mouth. I know what an outlier is, and you can't throw them out just because you want to. Throwing them out when they are close to the population mean is even more suspect. And, I am trying to forget as much statistics as possible, but I haven't forgotten enough.

And, no, he's NOT a career .33 shooter? That statement is not correct.

I am not trying to pretend to know anything, but that doesn't mean I have to listen to bunk. I have, unfortunately, probably, taken more statistics classes than most people here.

I am definitely fallible, but I don't think I am about any of this.

And, lastly, of course things have changed. I stated as such, several times.

[littlecoyotecoin]

If you say that 178 attempts is too small of a sample size, you're too ignorant to argue with. Either way, it's the end of that particular story.

And if you want to use sarcasm, you'll have to do better than that.

178 attempts, compared to his body of work, is a relatively small sample. Yes. Depends upon what you're looking at.

You don't think looking at his career numbers is valid, I guess. I still do. Danny is not some old vet at the end of his career. Waning years would be outliers, as well as rookie sophomore years. But, we are even including his rookie and sophomore years in the career numbers, where he was a shitty 3 point shooter. I see no reason to believe he can't resume a similar track based upon a lot of data. He's not injured, that we know of, he's in his prime, and he's on a well-coached team.

[SAGirl]

If I were to throw out that game he probably is under 30% for the season, that tells you I am not throwing the game out. What I said is that one game to me doesn't signal a trend that he's back per se and that he will shoot 42% the rest of the season, when he's been clanking very off the mark shots and something is going on in his head. I am not saying he all of a sudden can't shoot (I cited the Bonner, Timmy examples which were influenced by aging/injury and that is not Danny's case) but something is in his mind at this point throwing off his shot.

If anything it is not definitive. He may yet come back to his regular % the rest of the season. Hopefully he does bc if he's not hitting we are in trouble and we will need to implement Chinook's plan. Obviously his cold shooting is annoying bc he doesn't bring much else offensively and still has mental farts. It annoys me less that Patty has been cold a few games already bc Patty is not prone to the series of boneheaded plays Danny is capable of and Patty can put points on the board coming off screens. Danny doesn't. He actually gets some of the easiest shots anyone else is getting and not making them.

Anyways I haven't been a fan of benching him for poor shooting. But we have a tough schedule coming up and if he's not hitting, Pop is going to again go to Simmons, maybe Anderson too. It's up to Danny.

[littlecoyotecoin]

178 attempts, compared to his body of work, is a relatively small sample. Yes. Depends upon what you're looking at.

You don't think looking at his career numbers is valid, I guess. I still do. Danny is not some old vet at the end of his career. Waning years would be outliers, as well as rookie sophomore years. But, we are even including his rookie and sophomore years in the career numbers, where he was a shitty 3 point shooter. I see no reason to believe he can't resume a similar track based upon a lot of data. He's not injured, that we know of, he's in his prime, and he's on a well-coached team.

That is not to imply n=30 small, etc, or anything, I might add. Just generally speaking. It's also not a random sample from the population.

[SpursFan86]

I certainly don't think it's impossible (or highly unlikely) that Danny turns things around...but with less than half the season remaining, I don't know how anyone could be so confident that he'll get back on track. He's always been fairly streaky, but he's now been in an "icy" period spanning over 40 games and 150+ attempts. I wasn't too worried about it early on, but it's hard not to be at this point.

Doesn't help that Patty also seems to be struggling this year. Two of our highest volume 3-point shooters struggling is certainly worrisome.

[littlecoyotecoin]

If I were to throw out that game he probably is under 30% for the season, that tells you I am not throwing the game out. What I said is that one game to me doesn't signal a trend that he's back per se and that he will shoot 42% the rest of the season, when he's been clanking very off the mark shots and something is going on in his head. I am not saying he all of a sudden can't shoot (I cited the Bonner, Timmy examples which were influenced by aging/injury and that is not Danny's case) but something is in his mind at this point throwing off his shot.

If anything it is not definitive. He may yet come back to his regular % the rest of the season. Hopefully he does bc if he's not hitting we are in trouble and we will need to implement Chinook's plan. Obviously his cold shooting is annoying bc he doesn't bring much else offensively and still has mental farts. It annoys me less that Patty has been cold a few games already bc Patty is not prone to the series of boneheaded plays Danny is capable of and Patty can put points on the board coming off screens. Danny doesn't. He actually gets some of the easiest shots anyone else is getting and not making them.

Anyways I haven't been a fan of benching him for poor shooting. But we have a tough schedule coming up and if he's not hitting, Pop is going to again go to Simmons, maybe Anderson too. It's up to Danny.

If you throw it out, which you can't, or shouldn't, he's still .305, not that it really matters.

[littlecoyotecoin]

I certainly don't think it's impossible (or highly unlikely) that Danny turns things around...but with less than half the season remaining, I don't know how anyone could be so confident that he'll get back on track. He's always been fairly streaky, but he's now been in an "icy" period spanning over 40 games and 150+ attempts. I wasn't too worried about it early on, but it's hard not to be at this point.

Doesn't help that Patty also seems to be struggling this year. Two of our highest volume 3-point shooters struggling is certainly worrisome.

Yeah. I don't want to overstate it, either. I am confident that he will probably improve, but I would quantify by how much. And, over time, probably back to close to career numbers, but that may take more time than is in the season. But, even him just breaking into the upper 30's would help quite a bit...he doesn't have to overshoot to upper 40's to balance Nov and Dec to help us for the remainder of the season. As long as he moves in the right direction, it's all gravy, as we're doing pretty darn good even w/ him at .33. In the playoffs, it would be nice to see him peaking at whatever he can peak at, though, and not be in this trough.

[SAGirl]

If you throw it out, which you can't, or shouldn't, he's still .305, not that it really matters.
There you go and you know I never threw it out statistically bc you made the math calculation for me.

[GSH]

There you go and you know I never threw it out statistically bc you made the math calculation for me.



When you say things like that, his straw man gets very unhappy.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Straw man? No. A large part of the discussion has been about wanting to discount that game. I didn't bring it up, so it's not even mine, much less a straw man.

[steeledl]

I hope Simmons is shooting 500 3's every day.

[SAGirl]

I hope Simmons is shooting 500 3's every day.
He certainly isn't lacking confidence and he's more than just a 3 pt shooter. He's versatile, which means he doesn't need to shoot in volume to have an impact. Just enough so they respect his shot. At this rate, Simmons will need to bail Danny out.

[littlecoyotecoin]

He certainly isn't lacking confidence and he's more than just a 3 pt shooter. He's versatile, which means he doesn't need to shoot in volume to have an impact. Just enough so they respect his shot. At this rate, Simmons will need to bail Danny out.

Those last two threes he made sure were nice, tbh. He looks better and better.

[Obstructed_View]

No one said one game constitutes regression toward the mean. But, you can't throw it out, either, which is what you seem to be wanting to do, or at least as SAgirl is wanting to do. That is as much part of the data set as is his bad numbers. There is no reason to throw it out except that it doesn't fit the narrative that he is now a 33% shooter. But, throw out the data if you want, even if it constructs a month that is pretty much right in line with his large sample career number.

And, no one's been trying to put lipstick on a pig that has been his shooting for the first half of the season. It's pretty well documented that it's been bad in comparison to his career number. The exception being that January is shaping up better and may be a start toward a reversion toward the mean. The fact that it's skewed a little by one game doesn't really matter if you look back at it next year and he shot 41% for the rest of this year. It's made a big deal of here and now, though, but it shouldn't matter much.

But, sure, 33% is pretty bad for him. No argument.

The obsession with throwing out that game because it was "one game" though, that just doesnt work. A month is made up of maybe 10 games. You don't just get to throw out 10% of the data because it doesn't fit the narrative, and again, January is right in line with his career number. If you sprinkle those makes over three or four games it makes him more consistent, but doesn't change the monthy shooting percentage, so who GAF?

And these last two months, using a null hypothesis that he is a 41% career shooter, I have to say that Nov and Dec being .33 or whatever, doubtfully cause you to reject the null. But, whatevs.

Danny is not a career .41 shooter from 3. Due to his performance in Nov and Dec, he is now a .33 3 point shooter.

I concede.

I'm not in favor of throwing out the game for the very reason you mention. The fact that Danny HAD a good game is reason for optimism. Here's hoping he puts more of them together going forward.

[littlecoyotecoin]

I'm not in favor of throwing out the game for the very reason you mention. The fact that Danny HAD a good game is reason for optimism. Here's hoping he puts more of them together going forward.

Maybe a weakened opponent will further him on his way tonight!

[SAGirl]

Maybe a weakened opponent will further him on his way tonight!
Hoping for the best for Danny. I don't mind if he doesn't make any tonight, won't say a peep. I want him Monday.