All Time PF list by Sportscenter

[100%duncan]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarankPFs/ranking-greatest-power-forwards-nba-history?ex_cid=sportscenterFB&sf18967870=1

[Uriel]

:tu

[Galileo]

No one was better than Elvin Hayes. EEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Elvin Hayes (29pts/13rebs) vs Warriors (1975 Finals)

Elvin Hayes was a 6 ft 9 Center / Power forward. In his career with the San Diego/Houston Rockets and the Baltimore/Capital/Washington Bullets, Hayes played 1,303 games over 16 seasons, registering 27,313 points (eighth all-time) and 16,279 rebounds (fourth all-time). Hayes never missed more than two games in any of his 16 seasons in the NBA. In addition to his 1968 scoring title, he led the NBA in rebounding in 1970 and 1974. Hayes played in twelve straight NBA All-Star Games from 1969 to 1980.

Hayes was named to the NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team during the 1996--97 NBA season and was elected to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame in 1990. He has boycotted the Hall of Fame since 1990 and refuses to return until Guy Lewis, his coach at the University of Houston, is admitted.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMMKJKnF3x4

[Obstructed_View]

I'm inclined to agree with Gal on this. He was before my time, but those creds are impressive.

[sasaint]

I'm inclined to agree with Gal on this. He was before my time, but those creds are impressive.

You should go read about the first game I recall being billed as "The Game of the Century" between Elvin Hayes' Houston Cougars and Lew Alcindor's UCLA TEAM THAT WAS ON a 48-game winning streak. It had a huge impact on college basketball. In my list, The Big E would be #2.

[100%duncan]

No one was better than Elvin Hayes. EEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Elvin Hayes (29pts/13rebs) vs Warriors (1975 Finals)

Elvin Hayes was a 6 ft 9 Center / Power forward. In his career with the San Diego/Houston Rockets and the Baltimore/Capital/Washington Bullets, Hayes played 1,303 games over 16 seasons, registering 27,313 points (eighth all-time) and 16,279 rebounds (fourth all-time). Hayes never missed more than two games in any of his 16 seasons in the NBA. In addition to his 1968 scoring title, he led the NBA in rebounding in 1970 and 1974. Hayes played in twelve straight NBA All-Star Games from 1969 to 1980.

Hayes was named to the NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team during the 1996--97 NBA season and was elected to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame in 1990. He has boycotted the Hall of Fame since 1990 and refuses to return until Guy Lewis, his coach at the University of Houston, is admitted.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMMKJKnF3x4

Id like to believe that the NBA in 70's is nowhere near the level of the NBA in Tim's generation.

[Obstructed_View]

Id like to believe that the NBA in 70's is nowhere near the level of the NBA in Tim's generation.

Doesn't really matter. Each generation stands on the shoulders of the one before it. Everyone was the same in their own era. Dominance is dominance.

[AFMadison]

Doesn't really matter. Each generation stands on the shoulders of the one before it. Everyone was the same in their own era. Dominance is dominance.
Agreed no point in comparing competition from different generations.

[SpursIndonesia]

Rodman doesn't deserve his spot at that top 10 list, indeed he was one hell of a rebounder and very disruptive in the paint defensively, but lack of well rounded game won't fly in all era of basketball, and he was just too much of a distraction without someone strong enough personality wise to reign him in.

[FromWayDowntown]

There was a period of time when 5 of the top 10 PFs in history -- Duncan, Malone, Nowitzki, Garnett, and Gasol -- were playing in the same division at the same time (though Gasol wasn't what he would become and Malone wasn't what he had been).

[barbacoataco]

Rodman doesn't deserve his spot at that top 10 list, indeed he was one hell of a rebounder and very disruptive in the paint defensively, but lack of well rounded game won't fly in all era of basketball, and he was just too much of a distraction without someone strong enough personality wise to reign him in.

Disagree. Rodman's unique skill set makes him hard to rank but he was a beast. His defense was unreal. You're talking about the guy that shut down Shaq in his prime. He became more and more of a head case over time, but for most of his career he was a real force on the court.

[DMC]

Doesn't really matter. Each generation stands on the shoulders of the one before it. Everyone was the same in their own era. Dominance is dominance.
In this case Bill Russell is the greatest center of all time.

You can't compare the Daytona 500 to a soapbox derby. Sure the bar moves the same for everyone, but if you're looking at total performance vs level of competition, you have to factor in the difficulty faced by the player. Otherwise it doesn't matter how much players progress or how the league improves, you're never any better than the guy who first put a ball through a peach basket.

When guys from that era look at someone like Tim and say he's the best who ever did it, that's all you need to know.

[boutons_deux]

No one was better than Elvin Hayes. EEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Elvin Hayes (29pts/13rebs) vs Warriors (1975 Finals)

Elvin Hayes was a 6 ft 9 Center / Power forward. In his career with the San Diego/Houston Rockets and the Baltimore/Capital/Washington Bullets, Hayes played 1,303 games over 16 seasons, registering 27,313 points (eighth all-time) and 16,279 rebounds (fourth all-time). Hayes never missed more than two games in any of his 16 seasons in the NBA. In addition to his 1968 scoring title, he led the NBA in rebounding in 1970 and 1974. Hayes played in twelve straight NBA All-Star Games from 1969 to 1980.

Hayes was named to the NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team during the 1996--97 NBA season and was elected to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame in 1990. He has boycotted the Hall of Fame since 1990 and refuses to return until Guy Lewis, his coach at the University of Houston, is admitted.


On January 20, 1968, the Big E and the Houston Cougars (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967%E2%80%9368_Houston_Cougars_men%27s_basketball _team) faced Lew and the UCLA Bruins (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967%E2%80%9368_UCLA_Bruins_men%27s_basketball_tea m) in the first-ever nationally televised regular season college basketball game.

In front of a record 52,693 fans at the Houston (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston)Astrodome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliant_Astrodome), Hayes scored 39 points and had 15 rebounds while limiting Alcindor to just 15 points as Houston beat UCLA 71–69 to snap the Bruins' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCLA_Bruins_men%27s_basketball) 47-game winning streak in what has been called the "Game of the Century (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_the_Century_(college_basketball))".

That game helped Hayes earn The Sporting News (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_News) College Basketball Player of the Year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvin_Hayes

[pgardn]

On January 20, 1968, the Big E and the Houston Cougars (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967%E2%80%9368_Houston_Cougars_men%27s_basketball _team) faced Lew and the UCLA Bruins (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967%E2%80%9368_UCLA_Bruins_men%27s_basketball_tea m) in the first-ever nationally televised regular season college basketball game.

In front of a record 52,693 fans at the Houston (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston)Astrodome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliant_Astrodome), Hayes scored 39 points and had 15 rebounds while limiting Alcindor to just 15 points as Houston beat UCLA 71–69 to snap the Bruins' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCLA_Bruins_men%27s_basketball) 47-game winning streak in what has been called the "Game of the Century (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_the_Century_(college_basketball))".

That game helped Hayes earn The Sporting News (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_News) College Basketball Player of the Year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvin_Hayes

And then they met in the NCAA playoffs...

[tholdren]

Rodman doesn't deserve his spot at that top 10 list, indeed he was one hell of a rebounder and very disruptive in the paint defensively, but lack of well rounded game won't fly in all era of basketball, and he was just too much of a distraction without someone strong enough personality wise to reign him in.
Just because Rodman was a dbag doesn't mean he wasn't good. Putting Rodman behind Pau is shameless. I think rodman, anti offensive player, has a better fg percentage and o viously more rebounds and a better defender. On what grounds is Pau better?

[Horse]

If you take rodman off the list you have to remove dirk that no D playing faggot. Not a great rebounder at 7' either. No way he was better than barkley.

[daledondale]

Pau and Dirk are overrated. PPG blind people sometimes.

[barbacoataco]

Rodman probably the best defender on that list. Shut down Shaq.

[SpursIndonesia]

Just because Rodman was a dbag doesn't mean he wasn't good. Putting Rodman behind Pau is shameless. I think rodman, anti offensive player, has a better fg percentage and o viously more rebounds and a better defender. On what grounds is Pau better?

Oh he was good. Was he a franchise level of player though ? Because the rest of guys on that list are/were. One hell of a ROLE player, especially for defensive purpose when the team chemistry was right for him, but he basically sinked DRob 95 WCF by leaving the perimeter open for hoarding the rebound, that's just inexcusable for him considering the opponent offense relied so much on perimeter shooting out of opportunities created by the Dream.


Disagree. Rodman's unique skill set makes him hard to rank but he was a beast. His defense was unreal. You're talking about the guy that shut down Shaq in his prime. He became more and more of a head case over time, but for most of his career he was a real force on the court.

You can put him as a top 10 DEFENDER, the best ROLE PLAYER, or more precisely the BEST REBOUNDER ever (though Moses Malone might be rolling in his grave in disagreement), but top ten on any position IMHO required franchise or top three player in a stacked team with complete repertoire or superb ability in one area that he can still carry the team even with other deficiency in his game.

For all of his weakness as a defender (and late prime Dirk was just below or at the par as an average defender), Dirk Nowitzki was so damn dominant offensively that he successfully carried that 2nd superstar less Mavs team to championship, ala TD in 2003 and the Dream in 1995. That will easily propel him into top ten PF list without any debate, outside of which rank exactly that he has earned.

[barbacoataco]

Yeah the problem with rankings is you are comparing players with different skills. Also I'm not sure that Dirk single handedly led teams to success. He always had talent around him.

[BatManu20]

Yeah the problem with rankings is you are comparing players with different skills. Also I'm not sure that Dirk single handedly led teams to success. He always had talent around him.

Dirk is one of the few players in the past 25 years to lead his team to a championship without another All-Star teammate on the roster. Duncan in '03 and Hakeem in '94 & '95 are the others.

[2centsworth]

Pau should be higher than Garnett. Better numbers, more rings, and better person.

[Cry Havoc]

Pau should be higher than Garnett. Better numbers, more rings, and better person.

Kg was a defensive monster. Dirk was not.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Pau should be higher than Garnett. Better numbers, more rings, and better person.

If this mattered at all Malone would be off the list.

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah the problem with rankings is you are comparing players with different skills. Also I'm not sure that Dirk single handedly led teams to success. He always had talent around him.

The two years they went to the finals he did.

[TXstbobcat]

I'm okay with any list that has Timmy at #1.

[2centsworth]

Kg was a defensive monster. Dirk was not.

Pau Gasol is an underrated defender. KG just makes a good ugly face

[daslicer]

I would put Chris Webber or Rasheed Wallace over Rodman. Rodman was a great defensive player but his offense was awful.

[Obstructed_View]

I would put Chris Webber or Rasheed Wallace over Rodman. Rodman was a great defensive player but his offense was awful.

Exactly this. Rodman was also a shitty teammate.

[Obstructed_View]

Pau Gasol is an underrated defender. KG just makes a good ugly face

Pau is an underrated everything. The western conference was murderer's row of power forwards, and he always held his own. His legacy took a hit when he went to LA and was the whipping boy for every delusional Kobe fan in the world and the legions of people who repeated what they heard without bothering to pay attention. The reality is that the Lakers were a laughing stock before he arrived, they were a champion and a perennial contender when he was there, and they went back to being a laughing stock when he moved on to Chicago, where they're now a contender in the east.

[daslicer]

Exactly this. Rodman was also a shitty teammate.

Agreed and he's the type of player who bails on his team when facing adversity or when they are not an immediate contender. He's very toxic that I believe if the Spurs didn't trade him to the bulls he would have been out of the league just due to his toxicity. What people don't remember about the Rodman trade to the bulls was that the Spurs tried to get better offers for Rodman throughout the league but nobody wanted to touch him because he was too damn toxic that's why the Spurs had to settle on getting Perdue. It took him playing with the best player and best coach in the world at that time for him to mentally stay under control. After the breakup of the bulls Rodman had flame outs in LA and Dallas. I'm convinced if he wasn't so toxic he could have played a few more years.

[Cry Havoc]

Pau Gasol is an underrated defender. KG just makes a good ugly face

KG is one of the greatest defenders of all-time at his position. Gasol wasn't as terrible as he was made out to be, but I would never consider him a "great" defender. KG was also a monster on offense too. He was a complete player. Gasol wasn't nearly the two-way player that KG was even if he was a bit more versatile on offense.

[barbacoataco]

The two years they went to the finals he did.

If Dirk really was capable of single handedly leading teams to the Finals he would have done it every year. The same could be said of all the great players. The fact is it takes a team to have success. Just because the Mavs didn't have any other Allstars doesn't mean they didn't have the right pieces in the right places.

[jag]

lol Karl Malone and his (Jazz) fans. That ringless pedophile has nothing but a career full of spoon fed empty stats.

[J_Paco]

If Dirk really was capable of single handedly leading teams to the Finals he would have done it every year. The same could be said of all the great players. The fact is it takes a team to have success. Just because the Mavs didn't have any other Allstars doesn't mean they didn't have the right pieces in the right places.

You have made a lot dumb posts in this thread and this is definitely the dumbest by far. Garnett and Nowitzki are interchangeable between the #4 and #5 spot, IMHO. They both helped revolutionize the power forward position and were great rivals to Timmy Duncan. This list is pretty terrible with Gasol and Rodman somehow being wrongfully placed in the top 10. Oh well, can't expect much better from the idiots over at BSPN.

[Russo21]

The way the game is played now they've probably gotta stop with this All time Centre, All Time PF, All Time SF All Time SG lists. The game has changed sooo much that most positions these days are interchangeable. Cut out the C, PF, SF SG. Should just be best big men, best wings, and best PG as the PG are 'usually' the most identifiable. It's a lot of basketball based on matchups which make the name of most positions redundant. The difference between C & PF, PF & SF, SF & SG, SG & PG gets narrower each year. eg: people like Lillard, Westbrook and Curry probably woulda been undersized SG's many years ago.

[100%duncan]

The way the game is played now they've probably gotta stop with this All time Centre, All Time PF, All Time SF All Time SG lists. The game has changed sooo much that most positions these days are interchangeable. Cut out the C, PF, SF SG. Should just be best big men, best wings, and best PG as the PG are 'usually' the most identifiable. It's a lot of basketball based on matchups which make the name of most positions redundant. The difference between C & PF, PF & SF, SF & SG, SG & PG gets narrower each year. eg: people like Lillard, Westbrook and Curry probably woulda been undersized SG's many years ago.

ok

[Obstructed_View]

If Dirk really was capable of single handedly leading teams to the Finals he would have done it every year. The same could be said of all the great players. The fact is it takes a team to have success. Just because the Mavs didn't have any other Allstars doesn't mean they didn't have the right pieces in the right places.

That's not correct. He was the difference because he was aggressive going toward the basket instead of just being a jump shooter. Just because they had the right pieces in the right places doesn't meat they could have done it even if Dirk hadn't been aggressive and led them there.

[barbacoataco]

You have made a lot dumb posts in this thread and this is definitely the dumbest by far. Garnett and Nowitzki are interchangeable between the #4 and #5 spot, IMHO. They both helped revolutionize the power forward position and were great rivals to Timmy Duncan. This list is pretty terrible with Gasol and Rodman somehow being wrongfully placed in the top 10. Oh well, can't expect much better from the idiots over at BSPN.

I have no problem with Dirk being where he is on the list. And if Rodman is so terrible at #10 who are you going to put there in front of him?

[Gagnrath]

People also forget Rodman's Detroit years when he actually was a somewhat legit force on offense. I'm not sure what happened with that. The guy was/honestly a great basketball player who just had a few screws loose. I really wish that someone had been able to take him aside in his late teens and early 20's when he started the hard core drinking and eccentricity and attempted to help him with his mental demons.

[Diego20]

what is Gasol doing there?

:lmao

[elemento]

Gasol definitely belongs to the list tbh

[Obstructed_View]

I have no problem with Dirk being where he is on the list. And if Rodman is so terrible at #10 who are you going to put there in front of him?

I'd put Webber and Rasheed ahead of him.

[Obstructed_View]

People also forget Rodman's Detroit years when he actually was a somewhat legit force on offense. I'm not sure what happened with that. The guy was/honestly a great basketball player who just had a few screws loose. I really wish that someone had been able to take him aside in his late teens and early 20's when he started the hard core drinking and eccentricity and attempted to help him with his mental demons.

Nobody forgets Rodman's Detroit years. He lived off that for the rest of his career. He wasn't much more than a stat-padder after he left the Pistons.

[Gagnrath]

Nobody forgets Rodman's Detroit years. He lived off that for the rest of his career. He wasn't much more than a stat-padder after he left the Pistons.
I would disagree that he was an important part of the bulls second championship series. His defensive contributions were important and he did vacuum up rebounds like no-other player at the time. It was very odd though in that he seemed to almost refuse to participate in the offense other than put-backs. He was also a serious part of the media circus that was mid to late 90's bulls. His Laker and mav's time was stat-padding or teams hoping that he would be able to set aside the crazy for another chance.

Personally his time with the spurs was a doldrums between a pistons peak and a slightly lower bulls peak during what probably should have been his most productive years as a player age and development wise.

[Obstructed_View]

I would disagree that he was an important part of the bulls second championship series. His defensive contributions were important and he did vacuum up rebounds like no-other player at the time. It was very odd though in that he seemed to almost refuse to participate in the offense other than put-backs. He was also a serious part of the media circus that was mid to late 90's bulls. His Laker and mav's time was stat-padding or teams hoping that he would be able to set aside the crazy for another chance.

Personally his time with the spurs was a doldrums between a pistons peak and a slightly lower bulls peak during what probably should have been his most productive years as a player age and development wise.

Any number of forwards would threepeat with that team. I think they saw one game 7 in three years. I'd add Horry to the list of fours I'd have above Rodman.

[Gagnrath]

Any number of forwards would threepeat with that team. I think they saw one game 7 in three years. I'd add Horry to the list of fours I'd have above Rodman.


That team may well have gotten championships with a random above average power forward but they also would likely have been considerably less dominate. Horry much like Diaw is a considerably above average player who for whatever reason does not sustain his productivity for any explicably stimuli. Someday they show and wow everyone others they're just there and no one other than perhaps the player themselves is sure why.

[2centsworth]

Pau is an underrated everything. The western conference was murderer's row of power forwards, and he always held his own. His legacy took a hit when he went to LA and was the whipping boy for every delusional Kobe fan in the world and the legions of people who repeated what they heard without bothering to pay attention. The reality is that the Lakers were a laughing stock before he arrived, they were a champion and a perennial contender when he was there, and they went back to being a laughing stock when he moved on to Chicago, where they're now a contender in the east.

can't agree with this more!

[2centsworth]

KG is one of the greatest defenders of all-time at his position. Gasol wasn't as terrible as he was made out to be, but I would never consider him a "great" defender. KG was also a monster on offense too. He was a complete player. Gasol wasn't nearly the two-way player that KG was even if he was a bit more versatile on offense.

Gasol has better numbers and more rings. As stated earlier by OV, Lakers were a joke before Gasol arrived and Kobe cried about wanting to be traded. Gasol arrives and they win 2 titles. I'll take the results over the hype.

[Seventyniner]

Garnett always reminded me of the Admiral in terms of on-court impact. Of course their personalities are completely different.

[Cry Havoc]

Gasol has better numbers and more rings. As stated earlier by OV, Lakers were a joke before Gasol arrived and Kobe cried about wanting to be traded. Gasol arrives and they win 2 titles. I'll take the results over the hype.

Surely you mean better offensive numbers, right?

[2centsworth]

Surely you mean better offensive numbers, right? how would you measure defense, because based on Rbs, Blocks and steals it's a virtual tie.

[Cry Havoc]

how would you measure defense, because based on Rbs, Blocks and steals it's a virtual tie.

:lol

Seriously?

[2centsworth]

:lol

Seriously?

you in the 3rd grade? respond with facts.

[YGWHI]

Dirk's title and and the list of his achievements count over Barkley, but people tend to forget how dominant was Chuck in his prime.

[Cry Havoc]

you in the 3rd grade? respond with facts.

You're using basic stats to quantify player quality and then accusing me of being in the 3rd grade. :lol Do you even know what advanced metrics are?

[2centsworth]

You're using basic stats to quantify player quality and then accusing me of being in the 3rd grade. :lol Do you even know what advanced metrics are? use your metrics to support your argument. You're acting like a kid.

[Cry Havoc]

use your metrics to support your argument. You're acting like a kid.

I'm scoffing at your overly simplistic analysis.

[midnightpulp]

Baffles me why the Karl Malone myth still persists. Dirk, Barkley, McHale, KG, and even old timers like Elvin Hayes were better.

[2centsworth]

I'm scoffing at your overly simplistic analysis.
Basketball isn't as complicated as you non-athletic types like to make it. When I play I want my big man to get boards, block shots and get steals. If you have a different way to differentiate, please share it. Otherwise. You're trying to stroke your ego without saying anything.

[Cry Havoc]

use your metrics to support your argument. You're acting like a kid.


Basketball isn't as complicated as you non-athletic types like to make it.

:lol :lol :lol

[Obstructed_View]

:lol :lol :lol

You know, if it's so cut-and-dried that Garnett's a better player than Gasol, you should be able to come up with something other than opinions and emojis. Gasol held his own head to head against Garnett in the finals.

[Cry Havoc]

You know, if it's so cut-and-dried that Garnett's a better player than Gasol, you should be able to come up with something other than opinions and emojis. Gasol held his own head to head against Garnett in the finals.

I didn't really think it necessary to prove KG is a better defender than Pau. Anyway.

DRTG: (career)
KG 99
PG 104

DRTG: (Peak)
KG 94
PG 100

DWS:
KG 91.6
PG 45.7

WS:
KG 191.5
PG 127.5

WS/48:
KG .182
PG .170

DBPM:
KG 3.3
PG 1.9

DBPM (peak):
KG 5.0
PG 3.1 (though he's at 3.6 this season)

TRB%:
KG 19.3
PG 15.1

KG 9x NBA All-Defensive 2nd team
KG 3x NBA All-Defensive 2nd team
KG 1x DPOY
PG 0x Defensive awards

Both peak and career, KG has been a better defender. And it's not particularly close.

[Obstructed_View]

I didn't really think it necessary to prove KG is a better defender than Pau.

I didn't have an issue with your claim, but I thought the way you responded was beneath you. Thanks for coming up with numbers.

[Cry Havoc]

I didn't have an issue with your claim, but I thought the way you responded was beneath you. Thanks for coming up with numbers.

I honestly thought it was beyond debate. Pau vs. Garnett has some merit. But not on the defensive end of things.

[dunkman]

Duncan is the best by far, he's a top 5 all time player. Malone was good, no doubts about that, but he depended on Stock. When MJ or Pippen disrupted their offense, Malone wasn't great creating. For those that didn't saw Duncan in his first 7-8 seasons, he was by far the best Spur in 2013, when Manu and Pop throw away the 'ship in the dying seconds of the finals game 7.

It would make sense to have Dirk before Malone, since Dirk was able to get the job done. Kevin Garnett was never better then Duncan, not even during his MVP season. The 'Wolfs tended to pad his stats in blowouts and his game was less suited for playoffs.

[Obstructed_View]

I honestly thought it was beyond debate. Pau vs. Garnett has some merit. But not on the defensive end of things.

You might be correct, but there were a lot of people that reacted that way when I pointed out that they were underrating Duncan and overrating Dwight Howard.

[Galileo]

And then they met in the NCAA playoffs...

25 points and 24 rebounds for E in 1967 vs UCLA in tournament.

[tholdren]

Oh he was good. Was he a franchise level of player though ? Because the rest of guys on that list are/were. One hell of a ROLE player, especially for defensive purpose when the team chemistry was right for him, but he basically sinked DRob 95 WCF by leaving the perimeter open for hoarding the rebound, that's just inexcusable for him considering the opponent offense relied so much on perimeter shooting out of opportunities created by the Dream.



You can put him as a top 10 DEFENDER, the best ROLE PLAYER, or more precisely the BEST REBOUNDER ever (though Moses Malone might be rolling in his grave in disagreement), but top ten on any position IMHO required franchise or top three player in a stacked team with complete repertoire or superb ability in one area that he can still carry the team even with other deficiency in his game.

For all of his weakness as a defender (and late prime Dirk was just below or at the par as an average defender), Dirk Nowitzki was so damn dominant offensively that he successfully carried that 2nd superstar less Mavs team to championship, ala TD in 2003 and the Dream in 1995. That will easily propel him into top ten PF list without any debate, outside of which rank exactly that he has earned.

Rodman played 8,000 less minutes than Pau - has 80 more steals, 800 more defensive rebounds, 1600 more offensive rebounds, in the regular season. If you're over 7' tall, and a TOP ALL TIME PLAYER, and your job is to rebound and score, shouldn't he be dominating the people he is ahead of? Rodman, even with disparity of minutes played, has about 10 more defensive win shares. Rodman was a hell of a role player for his team, just like manu, and similar to Pau. Pau was never the #1 for his team in the playoffs. Let's not pretend he was the face of any franchise when he was winning rings. In all of his runs he had like 9 big men playing with him.

Pau Gasol is behind Amare in PER, just as an FYI.

[tholdren]

I would put Chris Webber or Rasheed Wallace over Rodman. Rodman was a great defensive player but his offense was awful.
Rodman has a higher FG% than Pau....

[daslicer]

Rodman has a higher FG% than Pau....

Rodman only took a few shots a game so that doesn't mean anything.

[tholdren]

Rodman only took a few shots a game so that doesn't mean anything.
lol ok.

[SpursIndonesia]

Rodman played 8,000 less minutes than Pau - has 80 more steals, 800 more defensive rebounds, 1600 more offensive rebounds, in the regular season. If you're over 7' tall, and a TOP ALL TIME PLAYER, and your job is to rebound and score, shouldn't he be dominating the people he is ahead of? Rodman, even with disparity of minutes played, has about 10 more defensive win shares. Rodman was a hell of a role player for his team, just like manu, and similar to Pau. Pau was never the #1 for his team in the playoffs. Let's not pretend he was the face of any franchise when he was winning rings. In all of his runs he had like 9 big men playing with him.

Pau Gasol is behind Amare in PER, just as an FYI.

Is Manu in the top 10 list ? Exactly my point.

Pau Gasol is somewhat like Gervin or Drexler, all around greatness but not great enough to win it all carrying the team all by himself. Now, his place in top 10 list is by no mean a lock, i can see the merit of the argument excluding him from that list, but certainly if he is not deserving, Rodman is even more undeserving.

[tholdren]

Is Manu in the top 10 list ? Exactly my point.

Pau Gasol is somewhat like Gervin or Drexler, all around greatness but not great enough to win it all carrying the team all by himself. Now, his place in top 10 list is by no mean a lock, i can see the merit of the argument excluding him from that list, but certainly if he is not deserving, Rodman is even more undeserving.

manu is better than gervin was... exactly my point

[FrankieS]

Pau Gasol is somewhat like Gervin or Drexler, all around greatness but not great enough to win it all carrying the team all by himself.

Please, watch Eurobasket 2016 semifinal and final. You will see a player to win a championship all by himself. A player carrying his team alone. And playing like a true monster at both ends. And that player is Pau Gasol.

Pau Gasols performance at Eurobasket 2016 was a all time best by any player in a international tournament. Ever.

[100%duncan]

Please, watch Eurobasket 2016 semifinal and final. You will see a player to win a championship all by himself. A player carrying his team alone. And playing like a true monster at both ends. And that player is Pau Gasol.

Pau Gasols performance at Eurobasket 2016 was a all time best by any player in a international tournament. Ever.

2004 Ginobili says hi

[daledondale]

Please, watch Eurobasket 2016 semifinal and final. You will see a player to win a championship all by himself. A player carrying his team alone. And playing like a true monster at both ends. And that player is Pau Gasol.

Pau Gasols performance at Eurobasket 2016 was a all time best by any player in a international tournament. Ever.
You should be pinked. Manu destroys USA Team several times and you're sucking Gasol's dick.