Is Kevin Love the worst PnR defender in the league?

[spursistan]

689280235938930688

[100%duncan]

Erase PnR and you are correct

[benefactor]

What in the hell was he doing?:lol

[StrengthAndHonor]

Should've kept Wiggins :lol

[LkrFan]

Should've kept Wiggins :lol

Truth. Wiggins and Uncle Drew would be killing it. Oh well :lol

[SAGirl]

689280235938930688
Its not only Love, watch Kyrie too.

[TDMVPDPOY]

white guy plays no defense its proven

[DPG21920]

It's a massive problem. He's a terrible PNR defender.

[DAF86]

Irving, wiggings, lebron. What could have been :lol

[Nathan89]

Lebron just might leave the Cavs.:lol I know I wouldn't want to stay with Kevin Love for the rest of my career.

[DAF86]

Heck, since everybody is playing small nowadays. Add shumpert and thompson to those three. Irving, shumpert, wiggings, lebron and thompson. Pretty nice crunch time line-up, tbh.

[Dancelot]

Maybe they can trade him to the Timberwolves for Wiggins?

[Venti Quattro]

http://i.imgur.com/BdcjCYB.jpg

[LakerHater]

689297002518061056

[LarryDavid]

The guy literally looks retarded playing defense.

[rasuo214]

Cavs could have had Irving, Wiggins and Lebron. Trade the Miami 1st round pick + some scrubs for Thaddeus Young like the TWolves did or use the pick in some other trade maybe for someone like a Ryan Anderson who would be a better fit than Love.

[Kawhitstorm]

Worst offenders:

Kanter
David Lee
Harden
Dirk
LaVine
Drummond
Whiteside
Al Jefferson
Okafor
Bargnani
Pek
Speights
Marco
Amare
Z-Bo
Nick Young
Lillard
McBuckets
Marcus Thornton
Kobrick
Nik Stauskas
Pierce
Crawford
Calderon
Gary Neal
Shabazz Muhammad

[Kawhitstorm]

Cavs could have had Irving, Wiggins and Lebron. Trade the Miami 1st round pick + some scrubs for Thaddeus Young like the TWolves did or use the pick in some other trade maybe for someone like a Ryan Anderson who would be a better fit than Love.

GM LeBron DEMANDED they trade Wiggins for Love.:lol

[Neurosis]

Love's always been a trash defender and at best a #2-3 option on a legit contender.

I guess Lebron was hoping for the next Bosh, except Toronto Bosh was consistently a legit #1 option for 4+ seasons (consistently 22+ ppg on 57% TS) as well as a good defender with a good work ethic.

Love's always been a gifted but lazy player, who never really managed to produce great results consistently. He was a top10 offensive player in the league for a season and a half stretch and that's about it. In terms of results vs. talent he's a career underperformer because his work ethic and attitude sucks.

[100%duncan]

Love's always been a trash defender and at best a #2-3 option on a legit contender.

I guess Lebron was hoping for the next Bosh, except Toronto Bosh was consistently a legit #1 option for 4+ seasons (consistently 22+ ppg on 57% TS) as well as a good defender with a good work ethic.

Love's always been a gifted but lazy player, who never really managed to produce great results consistently. He was a top10 offensive player in the league for a season and a half stretch and that's about it. In terms of results vs. talent he's a career underperformer because his work ethic and attitude sucks.
As we have seen, he's not even a starter on a LEGIT contender

[Down Under]

Irving is just about as bad. Clueless

[Kawhitstorm]

As we have seen, he's not even a starter on a LEGIT contender

He's David Lee status.:sleep

[313]

B-but this doesn't fit the narrative :cry

If he played in the finals last year, in place of Tristian Thompson, surely the Cavs would've won :cry

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

GS didn't even need much of a gameplan - attack Love and Kyrie on the PnR every damn possession and they're hopeless. Spurs did some of it as well, though they couldn't get LaMarcus going.

[Kawhitstorm]

GS didn't even need much of a gameplan - attack Love and Kyrie on the PnR every damn possession and they're hopeless. Spurs did some of it as well, though they couldn't get LaMarcus going.

LMA was being guarded by Tristan not Love, it was Tim who couldn't score on Love (before West checked in & busted his ass).:lol

[rasuo214]

GM LeBron DEMANDED they trade Wiggins for Love.:lol

LeBron just trying to be like Mike. Seriously though it's not like Cavs management was any better, I mean Anthony Bennett? The 2013 draft wasn't the best but they could have at least gotten someone serviceable. Dion Waiters the year before wasn't much better.

[Kawhitstorm]

LeBron just trying to be like Mike. Seriously though it's not like Cavs management was any better, I mean Anthony Bennett? The 2013 draft wasn't the best but they could have at least gotten someone serviceable. Dion Waiters the year before wasn't much better.

There is a good reason why they never have won a championship in 45 years of existence.:lol

[Killakobe81]

GM LeBron DEMANDED they trade Wiggins for Love.:lol

Yep. Left him out of his letter to SI ...then last summer met him poolside so they could resign him to a max deal. Even though it was a bad fit last year. You would think Bron would have learned from the Jamison trade ...

But already see where the cscapegoating will fall when Lebron falls short again. So at least They have a fall guy ...LeBron following his ohio state homeboy Chris Carter advice

[Killakobe81]

B-but this doesn't fit the narrative :cry

If he played in the finals last year, in place of Tristian Thompson, surely the Cavs would've won :cry

Lol

[Killakobe81]

LMA was being guarded by Tristan not Love, it was Tim who couldn't score on Love (before West checked in & busted his ass).:lol

West did punk his ass. Not sure i buy the Love is lazy argument. To transform his body the way he has shows dedication and work ethic. The problem is despite his claims to the contrary he loves the hollywood lifestyle. The time he spent on sculpting his body should have been spent on his game ...which would have helped his body anyways ...but i have bruin sources that say jis focus the past two years has been on getting shred abs and lowering body fat over refining his game that is in decline.

[Maddog]

Only one game, but Cleveland looked better in the finals without Love.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

white guy plays no defense its proven

Yet the all time leader in steals is white.

[Killakobe81]

Yet the all time leader in steals is white.

steals = defense?
Stockton, Majerle, ehlo, Eaton, Rambis, McHale were all fine defenders but please don't use steals to make that case.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

steals = defense?
Stockton, Majerle, ehlo, Eaton, Rambis, McHale were all fine defenders but please don't use steals to make that case.

Stockton was a great defender. There is a reason he was all nba 2nd team in defense multiple season.

Your leaving out AK47, Manu, Ainge, Seikaly, Smits, and a ton of other white players that were damn good defenders. Its just happens that Love sucks donkey balls at playing D. Harden, who is black, is just as bad.

[LkrFan]

689280235938930688

I put that on LeHype's inability to make his teammates better defensively. :downspin:

[Killakobe81]

Stockton was a great defender. There is a reason he was all nba 2nd team in defense multiple season.

Your leaving out AK47, Manu, Ainge, Seikaly, Smits, and a ton of other white players that were damn good defenders. Its just happens that Love sucks donkey balls at playing D. Harden, who is black, is just as bad.

outside of aK47 and Manu who is not white ... those are overrated defensive players. Stockton was very good on defense but I watched Isiah and GP destroy him repeatedly. Great on defense was prime GP, Dumars, rodman Bowen etc. . Very good was Stockton.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

outside of aK47 and Manu who is not white ... those are overrated defensive players. Stockton was very good on defense but I watched Isiah and GP destroy him repeatedly. Great on defense was prime GP, Dumars, rodman Bowen etc. . Very good was Stockton.

I agree, but I said those guys were damn good, not all time greats. The basis of the argument was that white players don't play defense. The forementioned players disproves just that.

And Manu is Italian descent. He is white. Just not Caucasian or Nordic white.

[Killakobe81]

I agree, but I said those guys were damn good, not all time greats. The basis of the argument was that white players don't play defense. The forementioned players disproves just that.

And Manu is Italian descent. He is white. Just not Caucasian or Nordic white.

I dont agree with the racist statement. white dudes can ball, dance, jump etc. and of course play defense. Overall they are not as good at those things but to say they cannot is moronic.

My original point was steals is a poor indicator of dense. AI was great at steals but was not a good defender after he left college tbh ..

[Tully365]

You can hide one bad defender on a good defensive team, but it's really hard to hide two... and when JR Smith is on the floor with Love & Kyrie, that makes three.

[Killakobe81]

You can hide one bad defender on a good defensive team, but it's really hard to hide two... and when JR Smith is on the floor with Love & Kyrie, that makes three.

great point.

[ambchang]

Stockton was a great defender. There is a reason he was all nba 2nd team in defense multiple season.

Your leaving out AK47, Manu, Ainge, Seikaly, Smits, and a ton of other white players that were damn good defenders. Its just happens that Love sucks donkey balls at playing D. Harden, who is black, is just as bad.

AK47 was overrated, defensive stat stuffer. Not bad, but no where close to how people rate him.
Manu is average at best.
Same with Ainge.
Seikly was horrible.
Smits was below average.

Stockton was great, Ehlo was good, Eaton was good offside, McHale was phenomenal. None of the ones you mentioned belongs to the conversation.

West and Bird were decent.

[Killakobe81]

AK47 was overrated, defensive stat stuffer. Not bad, but no where close to how people rate him.
Manu is average at best.
Same with Ainge.
Seikly was horrible.
Smits was below average.

Stockton was great, Ehlo was good, Eaton was good offside, McHale was phenomenal. None of the ones you mentioned belongs to the conversation.

West and Bird were decent.

yep. Not sure I say Stock was great but very good but that's just a quibble. Defense is my area of expertise and I place Stock at the high end of 'very good". great for me (on defense) as far as PG's go = prime Kidd, DJ and GP.
I also think CP3 is overrated on that end. I would say he is very good like Stock. both disruptive but not great pure defenders like the 3 i mentioned who to be fair are big for PG's ...

Agree with the rest.

[ambchang]

yep. Not sure I say Stock was great but very good but that's just a quibble. Defense is my area of expertise and I place Stock at the high end of 'very good". great for me (on defense) as far as PG's go = prime Kidd, DJ and GP.
I also think CP3 is overrated on that end. I would say he is very good like Stock. both disruptive but not great pure defenders like the 3 i mentioned who to be fair are big for PG's ...

Agree with the rest.

Yeah, Stockton was no Kidd, DJ or Glove, but he works hard, plays dirty, and is very smart. He doesn't have the quickness, athleticism or length to really bother the quickest of the quick point guards, that's why players like Zeke shreds him.

However, Stockton plays the angles very well, and he is very disruptive. He knows what he can get away with and really pushes the envelop on those.

Of the all-time great PGs, Stockton is up there as a defender.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

AK47 was overrated, defensive stat stuffer. Not bad, but no where close to how people rate him.
Manu is average at best.
Same with Ainge.
Seikly was horrible.
Smits was below average.

Stockton was great, Ehlo was good, Eaton was good offside, McHale was phenomenal. None of the ones you mentioned belongs to the conversation.

West and Bird were decent.

Manu has a better def rating than Bowen. Not saying he is Bowen but Manu is like in the top 10 in def rating for guards over the last 10 years. Manu is a good defender.

Ainge, am I am talking about Boston Ainge, not old man Suns Ainge, was a good defender.

Smits was a good defender. Yeah, when comparing him to Shaq, Drob, Mutumbo, Zo, Hakeem, etc, you would think he was below avg b/c he just played in the golden age of defensive centers.

Seikly was also a good defender. His career was just hampered by injuries.

I can see why you think these weren't good defender but they were. Its just so happen that the bar at the time for Centers were pretty damn high.

I am not saying these guys were great, but they all hustle and were able to be disruptive force on the defensive end at times. Of course none these guys were elite or even great. But compare to guys like Love/Mosgov/JR Smith/James Harden, etc. these guys looked all world.

[ambchang]

Manu has a better def rating than Bowen. Not saying he is Bowen but Manu is like in the top 10 in def rating for guards over the last 10 years. Manu is a good defender.

Manu benefits from playing on teams that were great defensively. Loves the way he anticipates, but he gambles way too much. Bowen is tough to measure on defense, but his DBPM and DWS are both better than Manu in general.


Ainge, am I am talking about Boston Ainge, not old man Suns Ainge, was a good defender.

Ainge had negative DBPM for a long stretch in his career. DJ was that defensive ace, Ainge was average.


Smits was a good defender. Yeah, when comparing him to Shaq, Drob, Mutumbo, Zo, Hakeem, etc, you would think he was below avg b/c he just played in the golden age of defensive centers.

Again, negative DBPM for large tracks of his career. He was too slow on defense and just gets abused over and over again.


Seikly was also a good defender. His career was just hampered by injuries.

Seikaly was never really any good on defense and his defensive numbers say as much. He was great in the low post though.


I can see why you think these weren't good defender but they were. Its just so happen that the bar at the time for Centers were pretty damn high.

I am not saying these guys were great, but they all hustle and were able to be disruptive force on the defensive end at times. Of course none these guys were elite or even great. But compare to guys like Love/Mosgov/JR Smith/James Harden, etc. these guys looked all world.

Oh .... well, if you are comparing them to THOSE guys, then yeah, I can definitely see it. It's all a matter of perspective.

[Obstructed_View]

Manu who is not white ...

Italy is part of Africa apparently.

[Killakobe81]

Italy is part of Africa apparently.

didnt say that ... but I definitely think he has more in common with people of Spanish descent ... but whatever. Dont plan to argue his origins or ancestry here because I dont care.

But OV, does Manu consider himself white?

[spursistan]

His fall in pedigree is probably the biggest in recent years because of those gaudy empty numbers in Minny.. .I'm not sure he is good enough to be 3rd banana on a title team..

[Obstructed_View]

didnt say that ... but I definitely think he has more in common with people of Spanish descent ... but whatever. Dont plan to argue his origins or ancestry here because I dont care.

But OV, does Manu consider himself white?
What else would he be? He's fucking Italian. Even if his family were native Argentines, he'd still be white.

Idiot.

[Killakobe81]

What else would he be? He's fucking Italian. Even if his family were native Argentines, he'd still be white.

Idiot.

I just said I didn't know and I don't care. Because I dont agree with premise that whites cant play defense first of all. And I was not aware of his heritage. I did not know he was Italian until someone mentioned it earlier and like I said ...I associated him more with Spanish folks like Pau than pure white like Nowitzki or Stockton. But I admit that is my own ignorance but again ...I dont care about his race ... in case you didnt catch that before.

Thanks for the ancestry 101 lesson, OV

[Kawhitstorm]

Only one game, but Cleveland looked better in the finals without Love.

Only one game?:lmao The Spurs/Blazers run a train on Love BEFORE the Warriors.:lol

[HarlemHeat37]

Love was actually pretty underrated in Minnesota, tbh..his last year there was pretty ridiculous + they were a top 10 team in the league..

He was also much better defensively, according to most metrics, particularly due to his rebounding..it's probably mostly mental IMO..either change of role contributing to his lazyness, or pressure playing more intense/contending basketball..

Still, though, :lmao White American basketball players..this isn't the 80s..

[HarlemHeat37]

Wiggins is not a net positive player, at this point, too, though..he's a nice prospect, but he's currently one of the 5 most overrated players in the NBA, a poor man's Demar Derozan..

[Killakobe81]

Love was actually pretty underrated in Minnesota, tbh..his last year there was pretty ridiculous + they were a top 10 team in the league..

He was also much better defensively, according to most metrics, particularly due to his rebounding..it's probably mostly mental IMO..either change of role contributing to his lazyness, or pressure playing more intense/contending basketball..

Still, though, :lmao White American basketball players..this isn't the 80s..

Problem for Love is the glare in Cleveland. Pops and LuKerr are attacking him in PNR. Parker killed him Kiwi killed him and of course Steph committed genocide. I still think Love has value on the right team. For example, on the Spurs he could have a Diaw or West type role with Kiwi and green masking his defense ... on the Dubs he would have Speight's/Lee(last year) role ...but as a main cog not sure his offense is enough right now to offset his defense.

BUT here's the thing he and James agreed this was a good decision ... even though thompson gives you betetr defense and doesnt need the ball. sure he can't shoot but that is what Kyrie and JR Swish are for ..

[Obstructed_View]

I just said I didn't know and I don't care. Because I dont agree with premise that whites cant play defense first of all. And I was not aware of his heritage. I did not know he was Italian until someone mentioned it earlier and like I said ...I associated him more with Spanish folks like Pau than pure white like Nowitzki or Stockton. But I admit that is my own ignorance but again ...I dont care about his race ... in case you didnt catch that before.

Thanks for the ancestry 101 lesson, OV

If the bold is the case then I got the opposite from what you said earlier, and I apologize for misunderstanding it.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Man, LeGM has to be kicking himself for forcing that trade for Love. Now with the max contract (and he got the afterglow year) the Cavs had a shitload of cap space, even in the expanded salary cap era, tied up in him. They better pray Mitch is receptive to anal probe for Love action (can you say White Mamba) so they can actually field a team that can bring the championship that Cleveland has been whoring so hard for. Wouldn't it be something if LeBron's legacy turns out to be that even the King couldn't bring a championship to Cleveland. That he spent the primest of his prime in Miami and doubled up for South Beach pretties, but nada for the Cleveland hard hats.

[FkLA]

Kevin Love is a bitch tbh. A rich man's David Lee. Some dumbass is going to throw max money at him though, unfortunately.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224584&p=6932467&viewfull=1#post6932467

Wasn't really that hard to predict this imo. Faggots that don't play D are never anywhere near as good as their cute little stats suggest. I'd be a better GM than 90% of the guys who currently hold that job title tbh.

[140]

Kevin Love is the white Dwight Howard, tbh

[Kawhitstorm]

Wiggins is not a net positive player, at this point, too, though..he's a nice prospect, but he's currently one of the 5 most overrated players in the NBA, a poor man's Demar Derozan..

The point was keeping Wiggins & using the savings the sign ANOTHER players (Wiggins would have been taking Dick Jefferson's minutes:lol). They could have had Pau for a bargain but GM Bron DEMANDED Love.:lmao

[Kawhitstorm]

Kevin Love is the white Dwight Howard, tbh

More like David Lee 2.0. If there is any coach that could salvage his career, it's Carlisle.:lol

[Sybok]

No there are worse ones, but not big named ones who make big money on "good" teams. He and James Harden are neck and neck.

[SpursIndonesia]

When he was moving back to Cleveland, LeBron won't accept fact that he is getting older and his body will be more suited playing small ball 4 in this new era rather than forcing the issue to be the GOAT from the SF spot on the floor. The Cavs would have been much better with Wiggins starting at the SF focused being a defender first as he learns the rope as a young player, with the team led by Bron & Irving as the main scorer.

[Agloco]

What in the hell was he doing?:lol

No shit. Looks like a clip that needs some clown music edited in.

[spursistan]

845796863240523776

Back at it..

[apalisoc_9]

He's bad but its exacerrbated by the fact that Irving is the PG.

[Robz4000]

Parker/Gasol are worse

[Killakobe81]

He's bad but its exacerrbated by the fact that Irving is the PG.
He is bad
Shame of it though late in the Finals Steph settled for and or couldnt beat Love when cavs switched pnr late in Game 7 smh. Love actually gave a shot and maybe Steph was injured and or scared of LeBron help on iggy type block. Cost Dubs a chip.

[TheCultOfPersonality]

Zach Randolph is worse.

[Mikeanaro]

KLove is a bum, but that time when he boxed Curry in game 7 was the GOAT (for 3 seconds).

[DMC]

Most stat padding faggots are shitty defenders.