Food prices

[sickdsm]

So how many folks have seen their grocery bills cut in half compared to a few years ago with half price grains and $1 diesel?

Seem to remember the price of corn was to blame for that.

[Th'Pusher]

Not cut in half, but yeah, the retail price of good is generally down: http://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-atlantic/data/AverageRetailFoodAndEnergyPrices_USandMidwest_Tabl e.htm

[sickdsm]

Really? The graphs for beef pork and eggs are all significantly higher than 2012. What prices are you finding?

[Th'Pusher]

Really? The graphs for beef pork and eggs are all significantly higher than 2012. What prices are you finding?

Severe drought plays into the price as well.

[sickdsm]

Severe drought plays into the price as well.
Huh? I'm referencing food prices and how they are not tethered to raw prices. Severe drought appears NOT to play in the cost of food.

[Th'Pusher]

Huh? I'm referencing food prices and how they are not tethered to raw prices. Severe drought appears NOT to play in the cost of food.

The drought has absolutely driven up the cost of beef. Are you actually denying that?

[sickdsm]

The drought has absolutely driven up the cost of beef. Are you actually denying that?


Drought has been over for three complete years. Why is the processed foods still significantly higher than the peak of the drought?

[Blake]

I noticed produce has gone up. Seems like apples have doubled in price in the past few years

[sickdsm]

I noticed produce has gone up. Seems like apples have doubled in price in the past few years
Healthcare costs are a runaway train. Had a conversation with a few old timers and they seemed to think with cheap energy prices that healthcare was the reason prices on goods haven't come down.

[Th'Pusher]

Drought has been over for three complete years. Why is the processed foods still significantly higher than the peak of the drought?

Three years? tell that to California and Texas...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/ranchers-beef-up-cattle-herds-1431370873

http://www.cattlenetwork.com/news/markets/california-drought-will-keep-beef-prices-high

[Nbadan]

I noticed produce has gone up. Seems like apples have doubled in price in the past few years

Apples and maybe Oranges..but potato...lettuce...tomato....green peppers....spinach....corn.....not so much...

[Nbadan]

Healthcare costs are a runaway train. Had a conversation with a few old timers and they seemed to think with cheap energy prices that healthcare was the reason prices on goods haven't come down.

Healthcare is cheaper under the ACA than without it.....in the last 3 years there have been record low gains in HC prices...

[Nbadan]

Transportation costs are down which you could soon see reflected in prices of non-durable goods...

[Th'Pusher]

How the 2012 drought is affecting beef prices today (http://www.voxmagazine.com/news/business/how-the-drought-is-affecting-beef-prices-today/article_ce8553d8-06ea-5567-b742-79a0e453298d.html)

[Th'Pusher]

Healthcare costs are a runaway train. Had a conversation with a few old timers and they seemed to think with cheap energy prices that healthcare was the reason prices on goods haven't come down.

Sounds like you've been talking to some old folks who don't take kindly to Kenyan Muslim Socialists.

[sickdsm]

How the 2012 drought is affecting beef prices today (http://www.voxmagazine.com/news/business/how-the-drought-is-affecting-beef-prices-today/article_ce8553d8-06ea-5567-b742-79a0e453298d.html)

U should read your links. It refererences the high price of grain compared to 2009.
Its actually cheaper than 2009 now.

[sickdsm]

Sounds like you've been talking to some old folks who don't take kindly to Kenyan Muslim Socialists.

Not sure. One was my broker and the other one ran a crew of cement workers for government contracts. Gotta be racist,no?

[sickdsm]

Healthcare is cheaper under the ACA than without it.....in the last 3 years there have been record low gains in HC prices...

Im meeting with an agent tomorrow. Two kids wife and me. Hopefully we can keep it under $1k per month. Played $14 k last year premium going up to $17,5 this year. Not sure if its $2500 or $3000 deductible. The only people I know that went down had subsidized insurance or high risk. Considering going without insurance.

[SpursforSix]

Really? The graphs for beef pork and eggs are all significantly higher than 2012. What prices are you finding?

No shit. That's what I thinking. I used to grab a bag of beef jerky now and then. Now it's like $6.

[SpursforSix]

Im meeting with an agent tomorrow. Two kids wife and me. Hopefully we can keep it under $1k per month. Played $14 k last year premium going up to $17,5 this year. Not sure if its $2500 or $3000 deductible. The only people I know that went down had subsidized insurance or high risk. Considering going without insurance.

We've got some kind of hybrid thing. It's like $700 a month for me, wife, and 15 year old. We're out of pocket for the little stuff but are covered 100% for anything major. No 80/20 split after deductible is met.

[sickdsm]

Two weeks ago I was talking to a hospital administrator over beers and was asking him how can a health share plan require no tobacco use. He said under aca he can decide not to hire someone based on tobacco use or weight.

[Blake]

Apples and maybe Oranges..but potato...lettuce...tomato....green peppers....spinach....corn.....not so much...

Tomatoes have gone up a lot

[Th'Pusher]

Can the op explain his point? Is his argument that big food is not passing on cogs savings onto consumers and pocketing the profit instead?

[ChumpDumper]

Obama made TSA's avocados more expensive.

[boutons_deux]

The cost of food off the farm is small fraction of the retail price "on the table". Middlemen and commodity traders are the main costs.

That's why BigFood makes dead, industrial, food-like, pathogenic substances in packages. There's more profit there.

[sickdsm]

Big food? That's a pretty cool buzzword. Go to any butcher shop and buy meat. Price isn't much difference. Corn was blamed for the cost of almost anything.


Where's the outrage?

[Th'Pusher]

Big food? That's a pretty cool buzzword. Go to any butcher shop and buy meat. Price isn't much difference. Corn was blamed for the cost of almost anything.


Where's the outrage?

Uh oh. We've got a defensive corn farmer on our hands here.

Lap up any crop insurance subsidies this season?

[sickdsm]

Three years? tell that to California and Texas...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/ranchers-beef-up-cattle-herds-1431370873

http://www.cattlenetwork.com/news/markets/california-drought-will-keep-beef-prices-high
Sigh. Texas and California are irrelevant when it comes to corn production. Lots of chickens and pigs on pasture there?


Even the price of diet coke was somehow blamed on corn.

3.8% yty increase in healthcare is considered a win yet noones interested nin why food isn't cheaper?

[sickdsm]

Uh oh. We've got a defensive corn farmer on our hands here.

Lap up any crop insurance subsidies this season?

Out of ammo?

I would prefer no insurance but I am required to have it.

[ChumpDumper]

Sigh. Texas and California are irrelevant when it comes to corn production. Lots of chickens and pigs on pasture there?


Even the price of diet coke was somehow blamed on corn.

3.8% yty increase in healthcare is considered a win yet noones interested nin why food isn't cheaper?I'm interested. Why isn't it relatively cheaper than right now?

Given the prices of energy and other goods, most people can stand paying more for food right now. So there's your lack of outrage.

[Winehole23]

Why isn't it relatively cheaper than right now?A few old timers blame Obamacare.

[Th'Pusher]

Sigh. Texas and California are irrelevant when it comes to corn production. Lots of chickens and pigs on pasture there?


Even the price of diet coke was somehow blamed on corn.

3.8% yty increase in healthcare is considered a win yet noones interested nin why food isn't cheaper?
Move the goal post much? I said prices have seen a recent drop and you said beef, pork and eggs are all significantly higher than in 2012. Now you're saying Texas And California are irrelevant to the price of corn...

Can you even lay out the premise of your argument? Who is not passing on these cost savings? Producers? Retailers? What's your fucking point?

It's like I'm dealing with a fucking corn farmer :lol

[sickdsm]

So how many folks have seen their grocery bills cut in half compared to a few years ago with half price grains and $1 diesel?

Seem to remember the price of corn was to blame for that.

Seems as if the goalpost is still centered on the price of corn and fuel in regards to food.

[sickdsm]

A few old timers blame Obamacare.

Your thoughts are welcome. Wait. I forget this forum is based around hyperlinks and bashing people. It's like a middle school class of boys without the puberty issues.

[boutons_deux]

Seems as if the goalpost is still centered on the price of corn and fuel in regards to food.

fertilizer and other ag chem comes from oil.

corn and soy products, being so cheap, taint nearly all of BigFood's garbage.

[Th'Pusher]

Seems as if the goalpost is still centered on the price of corn and fuel in regards to food.

So who in the supply chain is pocketing these savings from fuel and grain? Is it that these costs are now being shifted to healthcare and not passed on to consumers? Is this what you're trying to argue?

[ChumpDumper]

Seems as if the goalpost is still centered on the price of corn and fuel in regards to food.


Your thoughts are welcome. Wait. I forget this forum is based around hyperlinks and bashing people. It's like a middle school class of boys without the puberty issues.OK, your thoughts are welcome. My personal experience is that food is rising more slowly than land values locally, so I give less of a shit about the food prices. Also inflation overall has been so low since the recession that inflation for food and goods prices have barely registered to me in that time. I have given even less thought to the actual causes.

What do you say are the causes?

[TheSanityAnnex]

Obama made TSA's avocados more expensive.

Avocados hit record lows this year dipshit. The volume coming out of Mexico is insane, over 40 million pounds a week, 70 million projected to cross next week for Super Bowl. You'd have seen that in the stores if you ever shopped for and cooked your own meals.

[TheSanityAnnex]

The cost of food off the farm is small fraction of the retail price "on the table". Middlemen and commodity traders are the main costs.

That's why BigFood makes dead, industrial, food-like, pathogenic substances in packages. There's more profit there.

grower/packer/shipper here. We work off 5% of what we pay our growers, sometimes less. Price gouging is done by the retailers, not us.

[ElNono]

Your thoughts are welcome. Wait. I forget this forum is based around hyperlinks and bashing people. It's like a middle school class of boys without the puberty issues.

:lol why are you asking here then? looks like you already knew the answer you wanted or didn't want to hear...

[ElNono]

Really? The graphs for beef pork and eggs are all significantly higher than 2012. What prices are you finding?

Pork (spike in 2014):
As Pig Virus Spreads, The Price Of Pork Continues To Rise (http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/06/27/325529915/as-pig-virus-spreads-the-price-of-pork-continues-to-rise)

Eggs (spike in 2015):
Bird flu spikes egg prices; some hit $3 a dozen (http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2015/06/09/egg-prices-up/28734967/)

[sickdsm]

So who in the supply chain is pocketing these savings from fuel and grain? Is it that these costs are now being shifted to healthcare and not passed on to consumers? Is this what you're trying to argue?
Would prefer to converse with someone that is not a troll.

[sickdsm]

OK, your thoughts are welcome. My personal experience is that food is rising more slowly than land values locally, so I give less of a shit about the food prices. Also inflation overall has been so low since the recession that inflation for food and goods prices have barely registered to me in that time. I have given even less thought to the actual causes.

What do you say are the causes?

I don't believe the inflation numbers. Maybe it's too much zero hedge but look up receipts over the past ten years and compare to prices now. I know you said post recession but i doubt all those numbers. Not sure what type of land your referring to.


Chicken and hogs get new diseases all the time. It was still blamed on corn in 2012.


I think theres too many middle men along the way. Equipment shot up when iron was high but never went back down. Similar situation.

[Th'Pusher]

Would prefer to converse with someone that is not a troll.
:lol out of ammo?

[CosmicCowboy]

As a small business I can say that health care is the biggest expense that typically goes up 10%+ a year. Probably the next biggest annual increase is property taxes. Even protesting that's good for 5% a year. Liability and comp is another one whose increase "beats" inflation every year. All the increases that exceed the inflation rate can be directly linked to government in one way or another.

[Th'Pusher]

As a small business I can say that health care is the biggest expense that typically goes up 10%+ a year. Probably the next biggest annual increase is property taxes. Even protesting that's good for 5% a year. Liability and comp is another one whose increase "beats" inflation every year. All the increases that exceed the inflation rate can be directly linked to government in one way or another.

How were increases in healthcare costs linked to government pre-ACA?

[CosmicCowboy]

How were increases in healthcare costs linked to government pre-ACA?

:lmao

How is health care NOT irrevocably linked to government?

[Th'Pusher]

:lmao

How is health care NOT irrevocably linked to government?

I'm specifically of the increase in cost. How did the government drive up costs of healthcare pre-ACA? That's your claim, is it not?

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm specifically of the increase in cost. How did the government drive up costs of healthcare pre-ACA? That's your claim, is it not?

Just stop a minute and think how stupid your question is. I understand your determination to argue with me at any cost but at least try to have a good take occasionally.

[Th'Pusher]

Just stop a minute and think how stupid your question is. I understand your determination to argue with me at any cost but at least try to have a good take occasionally.

Forgive me, but you'll have to expound. Was it the tax breaks for businesses that were driving up the cost? The fact that the government refused to negotiate the cost of drugs?

[ChumpDumper]

Avocados hit record lows this year dipshit. The volume coming out of Mexico is insane, over 40 million pounds a week, 70 million projected to cross next week for Super Bowl. You'd have seen that in the stores if you ever shopped for and cooked your own meals.lol so angry.

I knew you would fly here in full internets personal attack rage mode.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't believe the inflation numbers. Maybe it's too much zero hedge but look up receipts over the past ten years and compare to prices now. I know you said post recession but i doubt all those numbers. Not sure what type of land your referring to.


Chicken and hogs get new diseases all the time. It was still blamed on corn in 2012.


I think theres too many middle men along the way. Equipment shot up when iron was high but never went back down. Similar situation.Conspiracy!

[boutons_deux]

"Equipment shot up when iron was high but never went back down"

airline tickets went up with oil, but now oil is very low, tickets are still high, NO competition, which is the predatory capitalists' dream.

[RandomGuy]

Really? The graphs for beef pork and eggs are all significantly higher than 2012. What prices are you finding?

Pork is due to Chinese demand.

Haven't really been tracking them. Be interesting to find out though.

[TeyshaBlue]

"Equipment shot up when iron was high but never went back down"

airline tickets went up with oil, but now oil is very low, tickets are still high, NO competition, which is the predatory capitalists' dream.




Right now, Im flying at least twice a week. Airfare is stupid cheap today and competition is thriving.

http://www.npr.org/2016/01/20/463724352/as-oil-plummets-cheap-jet-fuel-means-better-travel-deals

[RandomGuy]

I don't believe the inflation numbers. Maybe it's too much zero hedge but look up receipts over the past ten years and compare to prices now. I know you said post recession but i doubt all those numbers. Not sure what type of land your referring to.


Chicken and hogs get new diseases all the time. It was still blamed on corn in 2012.


I think theres too many middle men along the way. Equipment shot up when iron was high but never went back down. Similar situation.

The Chinese have made a giant sucking sound for all sorts of things, "equipment" chief among them. Don't confuse the "price of iron" with the "price of finished goods made from iron". The majority of the cost of most finished products are due to the labor/expertise that go into making those finished products.

You are looking at nothing more complicated than supply and demand. Simple economics.

Couple of articles that touch on that trend:
http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21603054-developments-agriculture-have-helped-big-british-tractor-maker-dominating-field
http://www.economist.com/node/13088978


The central government's efforts to fight the drought are likely to be fairly effective. Droughts are not unusual in China, and the government is experienced in dealing with them. The effort to make the country's farms more efficient by upgrading agriculture machinery is already under way, so the additional funds from the drought relief—which are directed towards farm equipment, irrigation projects and well-pumping—should serve to accelerate the process. Moreover, despite affecting China's grain belt, the drought should not result in massive food shortages. The country has strategic wheat reserves from which it can draw, and stocks are ample following record harvests in 2008. Although food prices may rise moderately as a result of the drought, the impact will be softened by government intervention to ensure adequate grain supply.

Here is one on pork and food demand trends in general:
http://www.economist.com/news/christmas-specials/21636507-chinas-insatiable-appetite-pork-symbol-countrys-rise-it-also
http://www.economist.com/node/10854975

The US is a very large agricultural exporter, and there is a global market for food.

Don't think too locally, or just about one segment of inputs such as corn. You have to get your mind around the entire system.

Fuel/oil prices play into transport costs, as well as forming part of the input costs, because oil price trends play into gas prices trends and natgas is part of the feedstock for fertilizer companies, which turn around and sell their product to farmers who use that to produce the food, etc.

[RandomGuy]

Right now, Im flying at least twice a week. Airfare is stupid cheap today and competition is thriving.

http://www.npr.org/2016/01/20/463724352/as-oil-plummets-cheap-jet-fuel-means-better-travel-deals

Given plummeting oil prices, you can expect that to hold.

[RandomGuy]

Avocados hit record lows this year dipshit. The volume coming out of Mexico is insane, over 40 million pounds a week, 70 million projected to cross next week for Super Bowl. You'd have seen that in the stores if you ever shopped for and cooked your own meals.

Avacados have become something of a trendy food. Sad for me, as I have always loved the darn things. I do the shopping, wife does the cooking. I have seen a LOT more avacados being stocked by retailers.

[RandomGuy]

As a small business I can say that health care is the biggest expense that typically goes up 10%+ a year. Probably the next biggest annual increase is property taxes. Even protesting that's good for 5% a year. Liability and comp is another one whose increase "beats" inflation every year. All the increases that exceed the inflation rate can be directly linked to government in one way or another.

25%+ of all the money spend on healthcare is done in the last 10 years of a typical human lifespan. (ugh, don't ask me where I read that, but that is what the memory banks pull out, probably from an economist article, might be worth finding the data again)

You can't blame the government on the fact that you have a huge wave of baby boomers getting into the last few years of their lives.

Supply and demand. Government can fiddle with things but the massive tides at play cannot be denied. Health care, and therefore health insurance, will continue to get more expensive, until you vastly increase the supply of doctors.

[boutons_deux]

I remember you rightwingnuts saying insurance was so high because of frivolous lawsuits, therefore, tort reform would reduce medical bills (in TX, it hasn't) and encourage doctors to move TX, which of course would reduce the revenue of TX doctors.

All the people filing frivolous lawsuits apparently piled on just a few doctors.

One percent of U.S. docs responsible for a third of malpractice payments

Just one out of every 100 U.S. doctors is responsible for 32 percent of the malpractice claims that result in payments to patients, according to a comprehensive study of 15 years’ worth of cases.

And when a doctor has to pay out one claim, the chances are good that the same physician will soon be paying out on another,

"I think people will be surprised about the extent to which the claims are concentrated within a relatively small group of practitioners. It's actually more concentrated than in earlier studies,"

"This study rather convincingly shows, however, that even within specific specialties, malpractice claims are relatively concentrated and that a strong predictor of subsequent claims is a prior history of malpractice claims,"

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-malpractice-payment-patterns-idUSKCN0V52VY?feedType=RSS&feedName=healthNews

so the rightwingnuts were LYING again, defending the status quo, and blaming the doctors' victims.

[RandomGuy]

I remember you rightwingnuts saying insurance was so high because of frivolous lawsuits, therefore, tort reform would reduce medical bills (in TX, it hasn't) and encourage doctors to move TX, which of course would reduce the revenue of TX doctors.

All the people filing frivolous lawsuits apparently piled on just a few doctors.

One percent of U.S. docs responsible for a third of malpractice payments

Just one out of every 100 U.S. doctors is responsible for 32 percent of the malpractice claims that result in payments to patients, according to a comprehensive study of 15 years’ worth of cases.

And when a doctor has to pay out one claim, the chances are good that the same physician will soon be paying out on another,

"I think people will be surprised about the extent to which the claims are concentrated within a relatively small group of practitioners. It's actually more concentrated than in earlier studies,"

"This study rather convincingly shows, however, that even within specific specialties, malpractice claims are relatively concentrated and that a strong predictor of subsequent claims is a prior history of malpractice claims,"

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-malpractice-payment-patterns-idUSKCN0V52VY?feedType=RSS&feedName=healthNews

so the rightwingnuts were LYING again, defending the status quo, and blaming the doctors' victims.




Having done audits of medical malpractice insurers, I did no small amount of research into that very topic.

"Frivolous lawsuits" drive almost no part of health insurance increases, or even medical malpractice insurance costs.

Doctors may bitch about how much they are paying in medical malpractice insurance, but that has little to do with such things.

My guess is that the doctors who get sued the most, either are truly shitty doctors, or have shitty bedside manners. Poor customer service. Just a gut feeling.

[TheSanityAnnex]

lol so angry.

I knew you would fly here in full internets personal attack rage mode.

You tried to make a joke and failed miserably. Maybe next time.

[ChumpDumper]

You tried to make a joke and failed miserably. Maybe next time.The joke worked perfectly since it provoked your internets rage.

Everyone here involved in ag is generally insecure. I don't know why it is; I just know it is.

[CosmicCowboy]

25%+ of all the money spend on healthcare is done in the last 10 years of a typical human lifespan. (ugh, don't ask me where I read that, but that is what the memory banks pull out, probably from an economist article, might be worth finding the data again)

You can't blame the government on the fact that you have a huge wave of baby boomers getting into the last few years of their lives.

Supply and demand. Government can fiddle with things but the massive tides at play cannot be denied. Health care, and therefore health insurance, will continue to get more expensive, until you vastly increase the supply of doctors.

Actually the problem is that health care has gotten too good. Expensive but good. people don't die anymore until they are a rotted shell that simply can't be fixed anymore. If it was 1960 health care instead of 2016 health care half of the baby boomers would already be dead.

And I CAN blame the government for cost shifting health care expense of uninsured/ indigent by increasing premiums on healthy insured before and after ACHA.

Also, I won't disagree that we need more doctors their compensation is insignificant and has not been a driver of the health care cost increases.

[TheSanityAnnex]

The joke worked perfectly since it provoked your internets rage.

Everyone here involved in ag is generally insecure. I don't know why it is; I just know it is.

Always amusing to watch people try to save face by saying the other person is angry.

[ChumpDumper]

Always amusing to watch people try to save face by saying the other person is angry.Always amusing to watch people try to walk back what they already posted.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Always amusing to watch people try to walk back what they already posted.

that doesn't even make sense here dipshit. <<<----rage?

[ChumpDumper]

that doesn't even make sense here dipshit. <<<----rage?It's all there.

[RandomGuy]

Actually the problem is that health care has gotten too good. Expensive but good. people don't die anymore until they are a rotted shell that simply can't be fixed anymore. If it was 1960 health care instead of 2016 health care half of the baby boomers would already be dead.

And I CAN blame the government for cost shifting health care expense of uninsured/ indigent by increasing premiums on healthy insured before and after ACHA.

Also, I won't disagree that we need more doctors their compensation is insignificant and has not been a driver of the health care cost increases.

http://www.pwc.com/us/en/health-industries/behind-the-numbers.html

Sounds like we need a good old fashioned "let's both look at what the data say"-off.

PWC does a pretty good job of analysis, it is a good start. You go looking for what data there is, I will go looking, and how about we find some good evidence to see what we can find?

I would agree to some extent about keeping people alive past the point that makes sense. I have seen it happen first-hand, it was hearr-breaking.

[baseline bum]

Avocados hit record lows this year dipshit. The volume coming out of Mexico is insane, over 40 million pounds a week, 70 million projected to cross next week for Super Bowl. You'd have seen that in the stores if you ever shopped for and cooked your own meals.

Glad they're Mexican and not Chilean. People who import Chilean avocados here should be shot at the border tbh.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Glad they're Mexican and not Chilean. People who import Chilean avocados here should be shot at the border tbh.
You won't see much Chilean here this year. Did some containers for Costco but the Chileans are getting more money in Europe so that shit fruit won't have to come here. Ate a piece last week and it was awful.

[baseline bum]

You won't see much Chilean here this year. Did some containers for Costco but the Chileans are getting more money in Europe so that shit fruit won't have to come here. Ate a piece last week and it was awful.

Good, fuck the Euros. Avacados aren't supposed to be sweet.

[Winehole23]

Your thoughts are welcome. Wait. I forget this forum is based around hyperlinks and bashing people. It's like a middle school class of boys without the puberty issues. go get em, cooler girl.

[Winehole23]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171156&page=4&p=4930933&viewfull=1#post4930933